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Learn True Health with Ashley James

On Learn True Health, Ashley James interviews today's most successful natural healers each week. Learn True Health was created for YOU, the health enthusiast. If you are passionate about organic living or struggling with health issues and are looking to gain your health naturally, our holistic podcast is what you have been looking for! Ashley James interviews Naturopathic Doctors and expert holistic health care practitioners to bring you key holistic health information, results based advice and new natural steps you can take to achieve true health, starting NOW! If you are sick and tired of being sick and tired, if you are fed up with prescription drug side effects, if you want to live in optimal health but you don't know where to start, this podcast is for you! If you are looking for ACTIONABLE advice from holistic doctors to get you on your path to healing, you will enjoy the wisdom each episode brings. Each practitioner will leave you with a challenge, something that you can do now, and each day, to measurably improve your health, energy, and vitality. Learn about new healing diet strategies, how to boost your immune system, balance your hormones, increase your energy, what supplements to take and why and how to experience your health and stamina in a new way. Ashley James from Learn True Health interviews doctors like Dr. Joel Wallach, Dr. Andrew Weil, Dr. Deepak Chopra, Dr. Oz, Dr. Joseph Mercola and Dr. Molly Niedermeyer on Naturopathic Medicine, Homeopathy, Supplements, Meditation, Holistic Health and Alternative Health Strategies for Gaining Optimal Health.
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Mar 1, 2021

Visit TakeYourSupplements.com to get on the supplements that Ashley and her family have been taking for the last ten years.

Become a Certified Health Coach Through IIN just like Ashley James! Experience a free sample of their program: learntruehealth.com/coach

 

Optimize Your Healing Through Holistic Coaching and Nutrition

https://www.learntruehealth.com/optimize-healing-holistic-coaching-nutrition

 

Highlights:

 

In this episode, Jennifer Saltzman is back on the show and talks about what takeyoursupplements.com offers to their clients. She shares some testimonials of clients that have improved their health after going through a takeyoursupplements.com protocol. Jen also shares that their level of care for their clients is what sets them apart from others.

Intro:

Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. Today is March 1st. It is our fifth anniversary of the Learn True Health podcast. Can you believe it? Five years. I can hardly believe it. I remember the day that my husband and I decided to pursue this and do the podcast. You don’t hear his voice, but he’s behind the scenes. He’s been such a huge supporter and helper. When there are tech things I can’t figure out, he’s right there to help me, so really, it’s a journey that we’ve both taken this last five years. 

We actually started something like six months before just planning it out, studying. We had to teach ourselves all kinds of things, what kind of equipment to use, what kind of programs to use, editing software, how to get guests, what kind of format to use, all of that. All that stuff we had to figure out, and we poured through all the research. Of course, I’ve been listening to podcasts for years so I had a deep affinity for them. I would always want to do one, and it just made so much sense that I wanted to share my healing journey.

If you’re a new listener, you may not have heard, but I suffered for many years with a chronic illness. I had type 2 diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, chronic infections, for which I was on monthly antibiotics for. I was told by an endocrinologist after a battery of tests that I would never have kids, that I was completely infertile. I had polycystic ovarian syndrome, and I was basically told that I was barren. I was just getting worse and worse and worse. I felt like I was a prisoner trapped in my own body. I would just burst into tears all the time because I was constantly hungry, my blood sugar was out of control, and I just had this gnawing pain in my body. It was hunger, it was restless legs.

It’s an indescribable sensation when the body is so deficient in minerals that your skin crawls, your muscles crawl. I had problems sleeping, and then all day I was exhausted. In the morning times, I couldn’t process human language. I had such bad brain fog. My husband would talk to me and I couldn’t even understand him. This was me in my late 20s and my early 30s. This was the quality of my life, and I was young. This is when we’re supposed to go out, just climb mountains, and have fun. There I was just feeling like I was on death’s door.

It was holistic medicine and our journey that my husband and I started back in 2008 when we decided to shop the perimeter of the grocery store to buy organic, to seek out functional medicine, to seek out Naturopathic medicine. We kept searching and searching because we really saw that the mainstream medical system was good at prescribing drugs and maintaining chronic disease but had no tools to help me get better. I saw so many doctors, and I’m sure if you have any kind of chronic illness you have had the same frustrations.

If you’re sick of being on drugs and you’re sick of just being told that you’re just going to have it because of your genetics, because of your age, because of your sex, or because of your heritage. MDs are not trained in how to reverse disease, and I value MDs as part of the full spectrum that is offered to us in medicine in general, but they only are one piece of the puzzle. They’re only one piece of the pie if you think about it, but we’re taught growing up that they’re the only doctor to see.

I can’t tell you how many people, how many listeners in the last five years have reached out to me and said thank you. Because of your show, I learned that there are doctors other than MDs out there. There are doctors of Naturopathic medicine that have the ability to prescribe drugs if they want to. They have the ability to run labs. They’re fantastic diagnosticians, but their focus is on healing the body with nutrition. 

Now we have health coaching and health coaching has taken off. It’s the number one growing career several years in a row in the field of health, and that is because you get this level of care, accountability, and partnership that was not designed to get that from our doctor. Our doctors look through our labs, analyze us, and listen to our symptoms. If it’s a good doctor, helps us with maybe diet changes, supplement changes, herb changes if they’re a Naturopath. Then you go home and then you try to do what they told you to do. A health coach, this is where they shine is that they help you to implement these changes on an emotional level, on a day-to-day level help you to make these habit changes.

In the last 10 years, I’ve mentored under several very amazing Naturopathic physicians, very amazing doctors. They’ve taught me, they mentored me. I went back to school, I became a health coach. Not only did I reverse all of my health conditions using supplements. One of the things we’re going to talk about today are the supplements that I got on that helped me to reverse all of these conditions, but I was able to conceive our son completely naturally and on the first try. Same with the baby I’m carrying right now. When my husband and I decided, okay, let’s go for it, it was again on the first try.

Now, coming from a woman who was told her entire adult life up until a few years ago that I could never have kids ever, that I didn’t have a cycle. I had very severe polycystic ovarian syndrome for which I do not have anymore. This is something that MDs will tell you can’t reverse. Those MDs out there will tell you you can’t reverse diabetes either. Type 2 diabetes is 100% reversible. It was probably one of the easiest things that I was able to reverse, but it was the thing that I was probably suffering from the most because blood sugar imbalance is incredibly uncomfortable.

I’m sharing a little bit about my journey for those who are newer and haven’t heard this, and of course, you can go back and listen to past episodes—episode 0, the beginning one. You can go to the website learntruehealth.com. For about 15 minutes I share my story in more detail. But it was because of this, I was able to reverse the things that I was constantly suffering from using natural medicine. I decided to launch the show five years ago because this needs to get out. People are suffering needlessly and we need to help. We need to continue to share this information, and I love that the listeners of the Learn True Health podcast share these episodes with their friends and family. This is how we’ve grown. We’ve had millions and millions of downloads, and I’m so excited that we’re helping so many people to discover that true health is possible even if they’ve been told their whole life by doctors that it’s not. You’re seeing the wrong doctor if your doctor doesn’t believe in you.

If your doctor doesn’t believe that your body can heal itself, go get a second opinion from a doctor that believes in you, that wants you to have optimal health, and that’s very important—the distinction between maintaining disease and achieving optimal health. Even if you have a condition let’s say type 1 diabetes for which you’re on insulin for. There is a broad spectrum of health within that space. 

I know a gentleman actually who had raging out of control blood sugar, and he was at the highest end of insulin that he was injecting. Then he saw a Naturopath, got on the same supplements that actually I got on to reverse my type 2 diabetes, and it helped him—between the diet that the Naturopath recommended and the supplements that the Naturopath had him on. All of the minerals that are so good at helping the body become even more efficient, he was able to cut his insulin by 75% because his insulin sensitivity went up. His blood sugar became more stabilized as a type 1 diabetic.

So imagine, no matter what condition you have, there’s a spectrum in which you can achieve optimal health within that. Now I know people who’ve reversed diseases that you and I believe are fatal, you and I have been told are irreversible. The body is amazing, and if you believe that you can heal, you want to make sure your practitioners believe that you can heal as well. Health coaches believe in you and believe in your ability to shift your life, not only to have great health but have an amazing, fulfilling life with joy in every area of your life, with fulfillment in every area of your life. That’s why I’m such a big advocate for sharing this information, for continuing the podcast.

I can’t believe we’ve been doing this for five years. I’m very happy we have. That was my goal to continue to share this information. So here’s to the last five years and all the wonderful lives that we have helped. And here’s to the next five years and how many people can we help as a community. Continue sharing this podcast, and let’s turn this ripple into a tidal wave and help as many people as possible to achieve true health.

 

[00:10:15] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 458. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have back on the show probably one of my favorite guests, and you have not heard from her in a while, Jennifer Saltzman. Jennifer, you were in episodes 91031179, and 180. So listeners can go back to those episodes to hear more about Jen’s story of healing.

In one of those episodes, she interviews me and that’s a fun one turning the tables on me. I share my full story of healing and the things that we’ve both struggled with and ended up finding our salvation through holistic medicine. I should say our physical salvation to be able to come from such suffering for so many years and multiple illnesses, to be thrown away by the mainstream medical system and just told that you’re going to be on a drug for the rest of your life or this is just how it is. And then to find natural medicine—a really, really good natural medicine—that allows your body to heal, that gives your body all the nutrients it needs, the raw building blocks it needs to heal to the point where you no longer have any of those problems. 

That’s something that Jen and I both have experienced. That’s one of the reasons why I started the podcast is I suffered for so many years, and as did Jen. So you can go back and listen to those episodes to hear more about her story. But she has basically been in the health industry for over 20 years and has been helping her clients to gain a foothold into their health that they never thought possible and to overcome things that they never even imagined could or dreamed could be possible using natural medicine.

Jen, I’m so excited for you to be here today because one thing you do now, of course, you work with clients. You help them through the website takeyoursupplements.com, and I definitely recommend listeners go there and sign up for a free conversation with you or one of the other amazing health coaches at takeyoursupplements.com. By doing that, the coaches don’t charge you, which is a very unique system that we have at takeyoursupplements.com. The coaches help you to determine what supplements you need to take, some very specific diet recommendations to support your needs, then you buy the supplements, you follow their protocol, and you see fantastic results. It’s actually a very affordable way to do it.

Now, Jen, you work with people at takeyoursupplements.com, but you also have been helping people who want to become health coaches. People who either are health coaches who want to incorporate holistic supplements and herbs into their existing practice, or people who are lay people who are just really interested in health and they would love to now help others as well. We’re here to talk about that today, this idea that we can heal the body with natural medicine and that we can then help others do the same. Welcome back to the show.

 

[00:13:43] Jennifer Saltzman: Thank you so much, Ashley. What an honor to be with you again today. I am quite moved, I have to say in this particular season. Since the last time we have talked, I feel like my prayers have been answered. In an earlier interview, I think I talked about being very, very sick as an age 25-year-old person on welfare, bedridden for most of the day. I prayed a prayer that was the following, that none of my sufferings would be in vain. That God would use all of my sufferings and turn it for good. 

I have to tell you, I am feeling like that season is upon me and that there is an immense amount of grace and an immense amount of success that I’ve been having particularly in this last, I would say, the two-year season of working with clients. Not only have I recovered my health significantly. I mean, there’s one little thing I’m still waiting on but it’s happening. I’ve learned to live with it, and I’m 99% there. My energy has returned. I can work a lot of hours now. I’m so blessed to be able to put it into practice helping others now. 

But what’s so incredibly encouraging to me in this particular season is that there are systems in place now with Take Your Supplements and some of the tools that we’re using and my ability to help and coach other health coaches—and we’ll talk more about that as we go—that is just systematically producing phenomenal results. I’m kind of pinching myself to be honest with you. 

I’m just really excited to share with your listening audience breaking down what exactly they can expect if they do decide to go and join us in our journey with Take Your Supplements. What kind of support they can expect to receive, what kind of results we have had, and also what it might look like if somebody’s really excited about becoming an influencer for their people in their sphere of influence to really up elevate those people’s health with tools, self-advocacy. It’s amazing. That’s what I’m really excited to share with you today.

 

[00:16:15] Ashley James: That’s so awesome. There are a few things I want to touch on. The first thing is I’ve never told any listener, I haven’t said this on any podcast yet but I just remembered. Do you know who named takeyoursupplements.com? I had a client, this was over six years ago before we gave birth to our son. I always say we, by the way, I try to say we because I know I was the one that gave birth but my husband’s involved. It’s the two of us. It takes an effort on both parts.

My client came to me, I remember her so well. She had hot flashes so bad that she was just drenched in a puddle and she lived in the desert and she was still drenched in a puddle all day long. She was really broke. She said I just have almost no money to put towards this but I just have to get my health back. I did the assessment, which is part of the scoring assessment that is taught to the health coaches. So if someone wants to become a health coach, they can talk to Jennifer Saltzman and get with the program. It’s a very affordable program that teaches this style. It’s actually taught from the Naturopathic philosophy of listening to the body, listening to the symptoms, and addressing the nutrient deficiencies based on the symptoms.

I talked to her and I said okay, there’s this really good supplement we have, it’s very comprehensive, it’s also affordable, and it was less than $50 a month for this one bottle. It included a lot of minerals, it included a good amount of vitamins. If she had a bigger budget I would have done more with her, but I explained some things to change in diet and take this one supplement because at least she would be sort of filling up the mineral deficiencies she had.

Well, she called me back less than a month later and she said, “You’re not going to believe this but my hot flashes are 100% gone.” She goes, “I’m on board. I want to learn everything about this. I have to tell all my friends about this. My husband says I’m a different person. I’m no longer frustrating to be around,” to put it nicely.

 

[00:18:40] Jennifer Saltzman: We know another word.

 

[00:18:42] Ashley James: There’s another word for it. She was so amazed, and I said, “Yeah, this is it.” The thing is, we weren’t even addressing the major nutrient deficiencies that often accompany hot flashes. But what I was addressing were the most common mineral deficiencies just with this one particular liquid multivitamin, mineral supplement that is really, really high quality that is provided through takeyoursupplements.com.

Anyway, she got on board and talked to her husband. They decided to put more money towards her protocol so she could have everything her body needs. She said she had never felt so good. She kept calling me and just to update me. She said, “I’m in my 50s, I feel like I’m in my 20s again. I can’t believe it. I feel so good.” And this is something I hear so often from my clients, but the fact that in the first month that she went from hot flashes, sitting in a pool of her own sweat daily to none at all within one month, I just love that. I love hearing people’s results. Even though I’ve seen it time and time again, I love hearing it.

So she started just telling all her friends and family, and of course, it’s hard to get people to listen when they’re not ready to change. So she started yelling take your supplements, take your supplements. That’s where I got the name takeyoursupplements.com because she was just like why don’t people just take your supplements.

 

[00:20:16] Jennifer Saltzman: That is so funny.

 

[00:20:18] Ashley James: That was just one of my clients in the last 10 years that have had such great success. The thing is supplements are like the mortar, they’re not the bricks. I’m not saying you can just keep doing everything else you’re doing in life. I like to use the example you can’t just go to McDonald’s, take a vitamin C, and expect it all to go away. That’s not the point. 

But if you have a major mineral deficiency, you can’t get on top of it with diet changes because of the farming practices of the last 100 years, which is what we’ve discussed in past interviews. I’ve even had a man who has a degree in soil agriculture and he talks about we cannot get enough minerals from plants even if we’re eating plants all day long because of the way minerals are distributed across the soil. Because he’s tested soil, he’s actually worked with the Amish and worked with certain populations in China. If their populations live off of the land they often have major health issues because they have major mineral deficiencies because their soil is depleted.

These are the things that we can get really good health from eating a very clean and healthy diet, and we can still have mineral or nutrient deficiencies that we want to fill in the gaps with supplements and herbs. I love herbs. Herbal medicine is so amazing when you have the right quality, when you have the right dose, and when you have the right one your body needs. There are so many things that we can do there.

One thing you mentioned though is that you are struggling with one little tiny thing, and what I have to point out about Jen if anyone else had the thing that Jen has, they would be on massive pain meds and probably would have had surgery. Jen is on no pain meds and is fully functioning. When she said, I’ve learned to live with it, her version of learn to live with it is that she does physical therapy, exercises, and takes supplements. She takes care of her body so that her body doesn’t produce the amount of pain that other people would have been on massive pain meds for. I have to really give Jennifer credit. If anyone who’s listening has chronic pain, you got to talk to Jen. She’s really experienced in the realm of how to work with and manage pain on a natural level if that’s someone’s goal.

This is something where you and I have really been parallel. You and I have been friends for many years, and our lives have been really parallel together in that we both suffered and we both didn’t want our suffering to be in vain. I also looked at losing both my parents—I lost my mom to cancer, my dad to heart disease, and I said I don’t want their deaths to be in vain either. I want to learn how I can help others. I can’t save my parents, but if I can help a listener save theirs or save themselves from that fate so that their children can have their parents longer, that’s exactly what I’m here to do.

You’ve been helping people for many years with holistic health, but you said in the last two years, you’ve really seen just a very significant improvement. Once we do something for over 10 years or over 20 years, it’s like we mature into that field. You really see that you’ve gone into this with a new level of understanding and efficiency when it comes to helping your clients gain their health back. What do you think happened in the last two years that really helped you with that?

 

[00:23:57] Jennifer Saltzman: Well, a couple of things. I’d say the main thing is a more streamlined version of what you referred to as the—I can’t remember if you call it the health intake, we call it the health evaluation. Basically, we’ve had renditions of that over the years that we’ve worked with. But essentially looking at what people would call what’s bothering them, their symptomology. From a Naturopathic perspective, we understand that it all works together. But we do look at the body in these categories based on a lot of research from Naturopathic doctors over the years. But the advent of it becoming digitized, believe it or not, has been a huge piece. Not only has it become digitized, but it’s easier to share. Just the technology around it has become very, very, very, very good, and the systematic use and revisiting of that.

As an example, when a client works with me or any of our coaches, we start out by giving them this health evaluation and they get what’s called a health score. What we do is we track that over the course of 90 days. Usually, I really like to retake the health evaluation in 90 days, but the most significant changes that I have found within the last couple of years are because I’ve been so consistent with using that, not only as a place to know exactly how to start somebody so that they’re getting the most bang for their buck. We’re looking at their overall nutritional needs and then any fine-tuning things so that things that they have been struggling with for years—particularly ones that from our perspective are not that difficult to help rectify or help elevate in terms of their health score—are getting very quick results.

Examples of those things would be for instance acid reflux, digestive distress, bloating, constipation. Those things are things that we see rectify very, very quickly. But the other thing that I have done systematically over the last couple of years is set into place a very astute follow-up schedule with people. The level of care, the level of support that people get working with us without having to pay us for our time is really something that sets what we do apart. My follow-up with people—I set up monthly check-ins with them. There’s just a lot of support.

If they need anything, they reach out. If they have questions, they’re not out there on their own trying to figure out what the next step is. There’s a lot of fine-tuning that goes in. Because of that, we do not work with clients unless they’re willing to. I mean, we will every once in a while, sometimes it happens. But we really can’t work with everyone because we only have so much time and availability. But for those that choose to understand the value of what we provide because it’s an extreme amount of value, the financial responsibility at this point—I’m not sure it will always be that way—is just for the supplements.

 

[00:27:23] Ashley James: What you’re saying is when someone goes to takeyoursupplements.com, they’re working with a health coach and the health coach is not charging them for their time. They do make a very small, and I have to really stress, it is a small commission off of the supplements, which is nice. It’s nice because we’re being compensated for our time, and the client really feels like they’re getting a deal because they’re getting their life back and their health back. 

Should the client wish to hire a health coach and work with them long-term and pay them, that’s fine. But this isn’t some kind of upsell or you get roped into something. There’s no sales pitch. What is it called when you go like look at a vacation home and you’re getting like roped into a presentation?

 

[00:28:13] Jennifer Saltzman: Right, timeshare.

 

[00:28:16] Ashley James: Yeah, this is not like buying a timeshare. You go and you actually talk to a real health coach that probably has no sales training whatsoever. We have no system for trying to charge you for our time. If someone was like, oh man, I just want to keep talking to you every week, can I pay you for your time? I’m sure you and your health coach could work that out. But this is purely we’re trying to help people get on the right supplements they need that are very high quality, that is reasonably priced, and that really help people get results. This is a thing where we help as many people as we can, and these people don’t want to get off the supplements because they have amazing results and then they tell their friends and family.

One of my clients ended up sending me his entire family and it’s so cool. Now, not everyone could get their entire family on board. I can’t even get my entire family to listen to me. We often can’t, but this was one thing where he was like, “I really want to help my whole family.’ I said to him, I just had this epiphany. Sometimes God just sends you a message like you just have this divine inspiration. 

I said to him, “Who is the matriarch of your family that if you helped that one person the entire family would fall into line?” Because they have a very tight family unit. He goes, “My grandmother is the one person that if we could help her health conditions, we would have all my cousins. We would have everyone listening.” She had edema that was so bad her legs were purple. She was in so much agony and you should see this woman now. It has been almost 10 years, and you should see. She’s in her 80s, she’s super healthy. She got healthy so fast the entire family was like what are you doing? This is then when my client said you have to talk to my health coach. Just do what she says. Just listen to her and do what she says.

This is one of those things where we’re trying to help people. Our main goal is you don’t have to suffer anymore, and your loved ones don’t have to suffer anymore, we’ve got this information. Sometimes, I guess, people have been jaded in the past. I’ve gone through that where I thought I was getting a really good experience and then a company tried to upsell me or tried to sell me something I didn’t need, so we became jaded. The frustration is that when real good information comes along, sometimes we listen through jaded ears because we’ve had bad experiences.

What I can say is our number one goal is to help people get healthy. What’s also really cool—and I think you were about to say this—is that the supplements actually have a money-back guarantee. It’s all about helping the person get healthy.

 

[00:31:13] Jennifer Saltzman: One of the things that you had asked me was the difference between what changed two years ago and what I’ve been doing for the last two years. Here’s the thing, I personally ask my clients to commit to a 90-day period of time. The doctors that we work with, that comes straight out of them. That’s for anything that a person can do. If somebody isn’t really interested in doing that, then I have to say, you know what, that’s okay but I want you to really consider that you can’t just start an exercise program for a week or a month and then think, oh I’m done.

The reason that I find that people have so much success working with us is because of the way I schedule my follow-ups, part of the way. Sometimes, with the different options that we have in terms of using supplements with people, there can be four or five different versions of a certain type of product like a multiple vitamin, mineral complex, as an example, or digestive support as an example. It’s my job to make sure that the person is having an excellent experience with the supplements. 

As an example, if something doesn’t agree with the person within the first month of them taking it, I know that I know that I know that if they’ll give me a chance to make some adjustments perhaps in the way they’re dosing something, perhaps in the time of day they’re taking it, or perhaps in the version of the product we’re using, I can almost always get them right back on track within sometimes two tries, but usually just one. The thing that people don’t realize is obviously, we try to get people as much information before they get started so they understand all of what we do and they have a real sense of who we are. We are all very leery of jumping into anything in this day and age with the internet and everything, so I get it. But it is really a very unique service that we provide. As a matter of fact, I’ll share a story with you that just happened to me yesterday.

I have a gal that I’ve been working with for probably two months now, and she’s been doing great. She’s had nothing but great results over the last couple of months. It’s been getting better and better and better. But she brought something to my attention because we do a follow-up. We do a follow-up every single month. Until somebody says, you know what Jen, I’m on a really good program. I’ll check in with you in two months or let’s put us on four times a year. I don’t ever want to lose track of people because as people’s things change, the weather changes, the environment changes, the immune reality changes in our world as we all know. Whatever changes, I want to be there to say you know what, have you considered that if things are not going as well, maybe we need to just tweak something. It’s so easy for me to make a little tweak for somebody that might take them so much frustration of years of pain. Here’s the example I’m going to give you.

This gal yesterday tells me, “I’ve had chronic yeast infections since I was a kid, and I have had chronic bad breath since I was a kid.” I said to myself, “Have you ever gone on a candida program?” And I started talking to her about an overgrowth of yeast and all this other stuff. She says. “Well, actually, I have.” So listen, long story short, her doctor had told her, okay, if you have a vaginal yeast infection I want you to take antibiotics. She tells me this and I’m thinking to myself, oh my God. “So have you ever used a topical antifungal cream?” “No.” I’m thinking to myself, fire all your doctors. What is going on with this? They’re giving you antibiotics for fungal infection and they’re not giving you fungicides for a topical vaginal infection? What’s wrong here?

Anyway, she was practically in tears because I said all I want you to do is go take a candida test online and tell me what comes back. If it comes back like I think it’s going to, we’re essentially going to go after—we had already given her the digestive support and the basic essential nutrients and she was already starting to feel better, but she said this is still going on. This is what I ate and this is how it happened. It all came to me. This is a total picture, yeah, I get it because I’ve walked through so much of this stuff myself. I’ve been to see 17 different Naturopaths myself. Just the learning that I’ve done with these doctors over the last eight years, I mean, I just have enough information to be able to guide people in the right direction. I’m not a doctor, I’m not going to diagnose them, but I have enough information to empower them to do a really simple thing that probably will be life-changing.

She was literally in tears that I cared enough to be able to give her this information. And I said. “I feel like we might be onto something here. I don’t know for sure, it’s going to be trial and error, but that would be no different than if you went to a Naturopath, the same thing. You’ve probably been to Naturopaths, I certainly have. Yes, they have great intentions, but sometimes it’s trial and error.” So that’s why I ask people to commit to at least 90 days of working with me because if they can’t give me that amount of trust, I possibly cannot help them because we sometimes have to fine-tune.

 

[00:36:37] Ashley James: I like the boundary. You have a healthy boundary there, and that’s because it’s a unique system in which we’re not charging for our time. Now as a health coach, I charge for my time so people pay me for my time, and I’m working with them not only with supplements but I work with them because I help them adjust their lifestyle. We look at every aspect of their life. But when someone goes to takeyoursupplements.com, they’re not paying for their coach’s time. They’re just buying the supplements that are really meant for them specifically to help them adjust their issues. They’re being given something at such an extreme discount that you have to have a boundary as a health coach. You have to say you need to commit.

So for me, my clients commit in that they pay me money. If they don’t want to show up for their appointment, I mean, that would be sad because I really want them to get their results. Or if they don’t do the homework I give them, if they’re only putting 50% of their effort into it, I still got paid. I’m a health coach, I still got paid. I came to the table, I helped them as much as I could, but they’re not willing to do the work, that’s on them not on me. I do my best. 

But for you, you could be helping someone like the next person because you only have so much time in your day, and you want to help people who are going to be 100% committed to working with you, to fine-tune, to help dial in, to help be the detective, and figure out what’s going on so that they can get the maximum results out of the supplements they’re taking. Your boundary is, please, if you’re going to go to takeyoursupplements.com, be willing to commit to doing the work because you’re showing up to the table to help them basically for free, you really want them to get healthy, and you want them to also do the work as well so that they get the best results possible.

 

[00:38:32] Jennifer Saltzman: And here’s the clincher though, here’s the deal, in 90 days, here are some examples of people’s health score. This one gal started out at a -1. So our scoring system, the ultimate goal for someone’s health evaluation is to come out between 90% and 100%. That’s on the positive. This gal started at a -1 with all different kinds of issues. By the time we retook the health evaluation, this particular one was a little longer. It was at the four-month mark, her score went up to an 87. That’s 88 points. Almost at 90% within four months.

As a matter of fact, her testimony is on the Learn True Health. Her name is Jennifer Arnold, she gave me permission to give her testimony. We posted it on there. She’s got pictures of what she can do now, how she feels better, and all that.

 

[00:39:27] Ashley James: Do you mean the Facebook group?

 

[00:39:28] Jennifer Saltzman: I mean the Facebook group. Sorry, what did I say?

 

[00:39:30] Ashley James: No, you said Learn True Health and I’m thinking, is that on the website? No, it’s in the Facebook group.

 

[00:39:36] Jennifer Saltzman: It’s on the Learn True Health Facebook group. Another example, a gal who started with me was a -20 when she first started.

 

[00:39:48] Ashley James: Can you give us an example? What kind of symptoms did she have as a -20. People might not know. What does it feel like on the day of a life of a -20?

 

[00:39:58] Jennifer Saltzman: When somebody takes their health evaluation, we look at things in four different categories of health. I’m not going to get into necessarily what those all are, but they’re digestion, hard tissue, soft tissue, and blood sugar. Those are the main ones. Those mean different things. That’s a heading, but there’s symptomology that falls under each one of those.

 

[00:40:24] Ashley James: And the symptomology allows us to understand the different nutrient deficiencies on a much deeper level.

 

[00:40:31] Jennifer Saltzman: Exactly. This particular gal has a very, very severe amount of pain around her cycle, for instance. She has I think PCOS, it’s not really clear but she has a lot of pain. So significant amounts of pain, digestive issues. I mean, many different kinds of things. What’s unique about what we do versus how a lot of people approach health is—and this is what really sets this program apart in my opinion—somebody might come and say, listen, I have terrible migraines, and that’s all they tell you. Can you help me fix, heal, or elevate my health in the face of terrible migraines?

Well, if you will show me everything going on in your digestive category, your soft tissue category, your heart tissue category, and your blood sugar category, I’m going to have a heck of a lot better chance of helping you elevate your health in the face of migraines than I am if you just tell me you have migraines. That’s what the health evaluation does. 

Somebody might have this important goal that they want to get rid of, this thing that’s bothering them, their motivation for contacting us, but I’m going to address their issues based on what I’m seeing based on their health evaluation. That’s where people get results because 5 times out of 10, at least, it’s something going on with their digestion. That’s at the root of their issue. They don’t really say they have a lot of digestive issues but they come up with a really high health score and some going on in their digestion, I’m going to give them digestive support. Then cleaning up their diet, eliminating the inflammation issues. We’re going to have success with those migraines much faster than if we just try to throw a bunch of stuff that’s specific to migraines that’s something. Does that make sense?

 

[00:42:26] Ashley James: Absolutely.

 

[00:42:28] Jennifer Saltzman: Here’s another example. A guy comes to me, he’s got high blood sugar, high blood pressure, swelling and edema, all this other kind of stuff. His score went up 68 points in exactly three months. He’s 100% on board. He’s starting to tell his sphere of influence. He just can’t even keep his mouth closed about it because he’s so excited about the results.

Another gal I spoke with and followed up with lately, her score improved 110 points in three months. Terrible fibromyalgia pain, terrible pain in her hands, sleep issues, blood sugar issues. Most people don’t just have something going on in one of these categories. They have something going on in most of these categories, and this is why our program gets such good results because the basic program that we give everybody on some level addresses things at a cellular level that contribute to ill health or dysregulation in all four of those categories.

The reason I never got the kinds of results when I worked with—I’ve worked with 17 different Naturopathic doctors, healers, and different people. Got a little bit of benefit probably from most of those that I worked with, otherwise, I wouldn’t have continued. But they never really addressed this foundational issue of wow, you’re malnourished. You don’t have enough minerals. I mean I had so many different things that got better.

 

[00:44:03] Ashley James: I remember m, you actually had a positive diagnosis of Lyme disease and the co-infections. You were seeing Naturopaths and you were working hard at it, I remember that. And then you got on board with the supplements that we’re using now with our clients and the comprehensive minerals, and that was the major change you made. Within less than three months, you went back for another test and you were negative. The Naturopath said your body needed these raw building blocks in order to even fight the infection. This was something that you would not have gotten. You could have spent years going to really good Naturopathic doctors, but they weren’t addressing the foundation of your health problems. Your body needs the raw building blocks to fight infection.

 

[00:44:58] Jennifer Saltzman: Well, one of the things that I tell a lot of my clients—I have a lot of clients that I work with that are either considering seeing a Naturopathic doctor or currently are seeing a Naturopathic doctor. We are all for Naturopaths. Obviously, they’re fantastic.

A couple of things. Sometimes, people come and they’re seeing a Naturopath but they feel like they’re just not quite getting what they need. This is where I will often suggest that they add in our program and then go back to the Naturopaths. The Naturopaths are really, really good at getting people out of any kind of a very acute situation. If they’re in trouble, they need to probably work with a Naturopath. I love it when they do both, but I’ve had many clients who have worked with me as a coach, do our program, and then use their Naturopath. Maybe they have one that they’ve been seeing for years. They go back to that person for any kind of really challenging fine-tuning thing that either we can’t figure out or they just love their Naturopath, and they want to do both. 

But invariably, their health score elevates tremendously and significantly more quickly than it had been during the time that they were just working with their Naturopath. Like I said, you can’t test. There isn’t a test to show the deficiencies that we address. It doesn’t even exist. The hair mineral analysis test is probably the closest, but it’s still not perfect. So for me, for example, I was spending $250 a month on supplements plus whatever the fees were to see my Naturopath. She thought I had been cleared of Lyme disease based on her protocols that she had given me. It was a lot of killing of things—antivirals and all this other stuff, which was great, but I had absolutely no energy. I mean none whatsoever. She was starting to do things that it felt to me, she had the best intentions. I mean, I loved her, don’t get me wrong, but it just wasn’t hitting the mark anymore. It was just not any longer applicable really. She was trying this, trying that, and doing this, and it just didn’t feel right.

So when I heard about this program and started it, I actually was doing both programs for the first two months. I was doing these supplements that we now use and her program, and finally one day I’m driving to her and I’m thinking this is obsolete. I’m not going to do this anymore. Here’s the clincher, when I met one of the doctors who we work within the program that we used to take your supplements, he asked me the following question. “Did your Naturopath tell you exactly when you’re supposed to be feeling better? Did she give you a timeline of when you’re going to feel better?” And I said, “No, she didn’t.” He said, “I want you to go back and ask her for one, and I’m going to tell you mine is three months. I want 90 days. If you’ll give me 90 days and do exactly this, I want you to come back and tell me how you feel.” Well in five days I knew something was different.

 

[00:47:50] Ashley James: You mean five days on the new protocol?

 

[00:47:53] Jennifer Saltzman: On the new protocol. Five days on the new protocol.

 

[00:47:55] Ashley James: The one that we use now?

 

[00:47:56] Jennifer Saltzman: Yes. I woke up in the morning on the fifth day. My husband and I started at this exact same time. For the first four days, we’re looking at each other, “Did you feel anything? Did you feel any?” Neither of us felt anything for the first four days. On the fifth day, I woke up in the morning at 5:00 AM with lucidity and clarity that I had not had for years.

 

[00:48:17] Ashley James: That happened to me too. That was the exact thing.

 

[00:48:19] Jennifer Saltzman: I wasn’t all better, but I was alive, awake, and I felt this hope. I was just like something’s going on here. My husband who has had a benign tremor since the time he was a kid—shakes. He’s benign but he shakes. Within five days, it went down by like 80%. He had a pain in his shoulder that he didn’t even tell me about because he thought I’d worry. He then told me on the fifth day my shoulder is completely better.

The crazy part about this is it’s not rocket science. It’s raw materials that the human body requires at a cellular level for optimal function. That’s the simplest way I can say it. When you don’t have that and you’re trying to spot treat Lyme disease, spot treat blood sugar issues, spot treat this, and spot treat that without the foundation, you’re going to be spot treating forever. What I love doing is if you need spot treatment and I can’t figure out how to do that, I’m not going to spot treat with you first. I won’t do it. It’s not going to work. You’ve already been doing that so let me do the foundational work and we got to fix the gut. There’s no question. We look at people’s gut. You don’t have to change their diet based on what we recommend, but if they will do the things that we recommend, it’s more of elimination of inflammation and oxidative producing foods. They will get faster results.

I have people who clean up their diet in the first week before they get their supplements. They work with me, we decide what they’re going to do after the health evaluation, et cetera. I say, “Okay, can you eliminate these foods?” I send them the email with the foods right away. They get off the food. By the time I call them to tell them how to go take the supplements, their stomach is already feeling better most of the time because there are certain foods that just frankly create so much havoc in the body, and they are in most people’s diet.

A lot of your listeners are not. A lot of my clients will come to me and they’re currently not on a lot of these foods because they’re already a bit more educated, which is also possibly why in the last couple of years, I’ve had better results because people know more. They know more since the advent of your podcast, and they know how to clean some things up.

At any rate, it’s not rocket science, it’s like God science, it’s like earth science. It’s just food science. It’s just science, it just works. We’ve had so many years of research that have gone into figuring these specific nutrients out like over 50 years gone specifically into the formulation of these supplements in terms of research, testing, and all the stuff.

Here’s another example. One of the coaches that work with us in Take Your Supplements also went through IIN. So she’s a really well-trained coach. She loved IIN. She’s just a junkie for information. She’s amazing.

 

[00:51:16] Ashley James: Just to clarify for those who don’t know what you’re talking about. Takeyoursupplements.com is where you go to get these health coaches because you can’t say Take Your Supplements, but takeyoursupplements.com. And IIN is a health coach training institute that takes a year to do. It’s an online program. They don’t teach you supplements. They teach you how to be a really good health coach from a psychological standpoint, and they also teach you 100 dietary theories. I did IIN and I loved it, but they teach you zero—they don’t teach you what a vitamin C is, they don’t teach you what a calorie is. It’s not about nutrients.

So IIN is about how to be a good health coach in the emotional aspect and in the diet aspect. I absolutely love IIN, and I recommend listeners check it out. If a listener is interested in getting more information about IIN, they can go to learntruehealth.com/coach. That redirects them to a page that gives them a free module of IIN. So you can check it out. Just to clarify, it’s a year-long program that you do part-time at home while you’re still doing the rest of your life. It’s about 20 minutes a day that you do it for a year.

It teaches you the psychology of being a good health coach, and it teaches you about diet. There’s no information about helping people heal through nutrition. That’s not what IIN really focuses on, but they get good results in helping people change more on an emotional level and on more of a habit level.

What Jen offers, what takeyoursupplements.com offers is listeners can do a health coach training program. It’s actually a holistic health coach training program. It’s much shorter. You do it at your own pace but it is much shorter. You can complete it in weeks not months, and that teaches you exactly how to use these supplements and also the certain things to eliminate from the diet to help people get incredible results by getting to the root cause, and the foundation of what the people need specifically.

So those two programs, although completely separate and they’re both considered health coach programs, are very different and they complement each other really well. You’re saying that in takeyoursupplements.com, there is a health coach that works there. They’ve done both programs. Sorry, I just wanted to clarify.

 

[00:53:45] Jennifer Saltzman: Absolutely, I’m so glad you did. Let me just change the subjects for a quick second. I’m going to just expand on that. We have a lot of coaches that have taken our coaching program to learn about how to help people the way that we do who are IIN graduates. IIN, Institute of Integrative Nutrition, a lot of my clients have been through that program and they absolutely love it. Nobody has said a single negative thing. As a matter of fact, they’re just crazy about it.

However, like you’re saying, it’s such a great adjunct to then come and do our program with that background. On the other flip side of the coin, people don’t have to go through a year-long program in order to engage and learn to take our health certification program, which is much shorter. At six weeks it could be both, either, or whatever. But they do really complement one another. A lot of your listeners are very hungry for information. They are information people. They just love learning. I have a lot of people who have already contacted me and us about going through the health coach certification course that we offer through Take Your Supplements. It’s not our program, but we help people get started with it.

I’ve had probably 25 people that I’ve worked with go through the program already.

 

[00:55:13] Ashley James: Your clients have gone through it?

 

[00:55:16] Jennifer Saltzman: My current clients, yep. And at least five of them, maybe more. I can’t quite recall. At least five of them have also been through IIN. But my point is that this one gal where I was starting to say before, one of the coaches that work with us, she has been on so many different supplements and some brands that I have a tremendous amount of—there’s a couple of other brand supplement programs that I particularly like, one in particular. This gal worked with that brand forever and she has never felt anything at all from supplements until she started taking ours, which to me is a big deal. 

The point is we get results. We get results but we get results because the supplements work. A lot of times, people just take the supplements, they get great results, and it’s set it and forget it kind of thing. But in the last couple of years, to take it to another level, I have taken it upon myself to really dive in the ditch with people and figure out how to really get them great results. That’s what I love about what I do, and I figured out how to do it so we don’t have to charge for our time. We’ve already gone over that, but the point is that even though I am not IIN-trained or whatever, I still do work with folks like okay why are you not taking? I work with them on compliance. I work with them not in-depth because they have half an hour with me once a month or whatever rather than a weekly coach or whatever. But I really try, I refer them, I try to get them the resources if I can’t do it with them so that they start working with a counselor or they’ve checked out this. 

The point is that we at Take Your Supplements and the health code certification course are very holistic. We work with mindsets, we work with exercise, we work with hydration. It’s not just the supplements. We work with diet. We really help people understand that if they really want to elevate their health and we can’t give them the resource, we’re going to guide them to the right resource.

It’s just awesome. A lot of people that work with us have gone through the health coach certification course, and I just want to talk about that a little bit, it’s ridiculously inexpensive. I mean ridiculously. Everybody can afford it I promise. It’s just completely affordable. But I’ve had people go through it without working with me as a client, and I’ve had people go through it working with me as a client. The people who have had phenomenal success and basically have gone on to share and be a coach to their friends and family have been ones that have been a client first.

 

[00:58:09] Ashley James: Or people that go on to become successful health coaches.

 

[00:58:13] Jennifer Saltzman: Yes.

 

[00:58:15] Ashley James: Just to clarify what you said, people who work with you, so clients who go to takeyoursupplements.com, they go to takeyoursupplements.com, they get you, you start working with them.

 

[00:58:29] Jennifer Saltzman: Or one of our other coaches.

 

[00:58:33] Ashley James: But your experience is people working with you. So people who are working with you get on the protocol. You walk them through the entire process as being a client. So they’re a client, they’re doing their health score, they’re getting on the protocol, they’re eliminating those foods. Eliminating those foods alone will not solve all the problems although it does really help. But you’re right, I have had clients who refuse to get off those foods and they still saw results with the supplements. But I’ve also had clients who were like, well, I’m going to try just getting off these foods and not getting on the supplements. Inflammation will go down but you’re not going to fill your nutrient tanks that are depleted. Getting off of some foods isn’t going to change your vitamin D levels, zinc levels, magnesium levels, or any of the 60 minerals, but it will help to stop putting fuel on the fire. Those two go hand in hand.

The clients who work with you and really, really focus for 90 days on a protocol

 

[00:59:32] Jennifer Saltzman: Or even two months, even a month they just have to really have a follow-up with me and feel like, okay, I get this. I’m getting results. As long as they’re getting their feet wet with the process. They’ve taken the health evaluation, they understand how it works. They’re engaged, let’s call it. They’re already engaged. They understand the premise of why we need to do this, that kind of thing. I’ve had people do it after a month with tremendous success. The ones that just say, oh, this is a good idea I want to do it. Even the ones that have been through IIN, even those, this is cool. I want to do it but they haven’t taken the supplements themselves or been on the protocol, they don’t have the same level of engagement. I don’t know how to explain it, and they really never ended up doing anything with the program. Do you follow me?

 

[01:00:23] Ashley James: Yeah, and I totally get it. When you have a visceral experience of success, even for those who are like, well I’m fairly healthy and I really just want to learn this for my clients. Everyone has a visceral experience. you’re just having the experience of being the standpoint of the client.

 

[01:00:44] Jennifer Saltzman: It’s so important.

 

[01:00:45] Ashley James: Yeah, it’s really good information to collect for someone who wants to become a holistic health coach, to be on the side of the client, to experience that. And then when you go do the online course to become a holistic health coach, you really understand why you want to learn these things about the research behind it and what symptoms the body exhibits when we have certain nutrient deficiencies. It just gets really fascinating. You’re invested also. You’re invested. Once you become a client and you experience the supplements, you have a physical experience, but then you’re also invested in it. And then when you go take the course you’re like, oh, that’s why I felt this. That’s why this works. That’s why there’s this ingredient or that’s why there’s this amount of this nutrient in it.

I just geek out on all these kinds of details. But if someone just went in, just took the course, and has never had any experience of the supplements or any experience from the client-side, they’re missing out on the full understanding of it. I get why you’d want someone to go to takeyoursupplements.com and then work with a coach, experience it, and then go do the course.

 

[01:02:03] Jennifer Saltzman: I mean they don’t have to. Certainly, folks have taken it that haven’t, but my experience has been that it’s not nearly as beneficial. Not everybody that takes the health coach course is going to want to be a health coach. I’ve had at least maybe a third of the folks take the course, maybe not quite that many, a quarter maybe who have really done it because they just want to increase their own advocacy for them and their family. They really want to understand how to basically take care of themselves. I mean, I help them to the best of my ability. But the more that they can know stuff for themselves just like why they listen to your podcast. They’re empowered and they’re empowered by knowledge.

A lot of times, people benefit from taking the course even if they don’t necessarily want to go on to actively have a client-based health coaching practice, but just really want to learn and be equipped with. Because at the end of the day, it’s not that complicated. Once you understand the basic four categories of health, how we have to balance things, nutrify the body at a foundational level, and then fine-tune as needed, it’s not like somebody has to have a super—I mean I don’t have any kind of a degree. I don’t have that super medical background right, and people ask me that. Well, what’s your background? Well, you know what, I’ve been doing this for a really long time. I am a health coach and I’m certified in what I’m good at. I’m going to stay within my lane. If you need to go talk to a doctor about some diagnosis, that’s what you’re going to do.

We’re not diagnosing anything, we’re not doing that. We’re supporting the body from a very foundational level, and the body is doing the work that it’s designed to do because it now has the building blocks to do it completely rather than missing a little of this, missing a little of that. One of the interesting things about the problematic things about, for instance, people say, I heard selenium’s really good for you. I’m going to go out and eat five brazil nuts every day. People tell me that a lot and I say, you know what, that’s wonderful. Sorry to burst your bubble, but unless the soil that that brazil nut—which you don’t know where it was—has selenium in it, you’re not going to get any selenium in that brazil nut. Being that soils have veins of minerals in them, not every spot has selenium in it.

 

[01:04:32] Ashley James: Fly across the country or remember the last time you flew and you looked down. I always get the window seat. I think then when I married my husband that he insisted on getting the window seat, and I think we kind of fight over the window seat. Now that we have a kid, we have another on the way, I think I’ll never get the window seat again. But when I was a kid, I always got the window seat. I would watch for hours as the terrain changed. 

We would fly from Toronto to Puerto Vallarta so we saw a big chunk of the continent. I would watch as the farmlands, the soil would change color. There are areas where it’s red, there are areas where it’s almost pink, there are areas where it’s black. Obviously, moisture does play a role, but color largely—when it comes to soil—you can see the different mineral compositions are obvious in some ways. In other ways, you’d have to actually go and test the soil itself. But there’s not an even amount of iron distributed throughout the whole crust of the earth. 

There are more than 60 minerals and elements that exist. But there are specific 60 minerals that the body requires. Everyone knows calcium, magnesium, and zinc. Everyone knows those ones, but farmers will only put NPK back in the soil. Most farmers don’t remineralize the soil with all the trace minerals and elements.

If someone’s been farming that land for 100 years, that soil is absolutely depleted. Organic doesn’t necessarily mean more nutrients, but it definitely doesn’t mean less. Organic simply means that they’re not using—and there’s something like 2000 chemicals that are even approved for organic farming, so it doesn’t necessarily mean chemical-free, but it does mean free of the really, really bad chemicals like glyphosate which is an active ingredient in Roundup. Roundup is a chelator. It binds to certain minerals, metals, and elements and it removes them, it washes them away from the soil. 

So if we’ve been farming land and putting these specific kinds of chemicals on the land that are chelating the land, even with tilling. The way they destroy the composition of the nutrients by tilling. There are all these farming practices that are designed to maybe help make a big yield now but completely destroy the nutrition for later. If we’re relying on a brazil nut for our selenium, we’re living in a fool’s paradise. Just like if we’re thinking we’re going to get our iron from spinach, or our calcium and magnesium from broccoli, you can even see it. You could google it and start looking into this yourself that they did tests in the 50s and 60s for carrots and the nutrients in carrots and then the carrots today have significantly fewer sugars, nutrients, even the beta carotene is lower. It’s just that our food is becoming less and less nutritious. 

Now, of course, there’s always an exception to that. There are a handful of farms out there that remineralize their soil, that does practices that protect the soil to make the most nutritious food, and of course, you can grow your own. One of the Naturopaths that we work with at takeyoursupplements.com and as part of the supplement program, you can buy in large quantities this special kind of humic shale. It’s black, it’s beautiful, and it is absolutely amazing to put into the garden. If you put it into your lawn, your lawn is the envy of your entire neighborhood, but I don’t like growing lawns. I like growing gardens. You use it for any amount of vegetable or fruit, you see such a yield you wouldn’t believe it. 

It’s even in Japan, they use it there in certain fields. There’s a machine that’ll measure the sweetness, they’ll measure the sugar content and it puts it through the roof. When I say sugar content, I don’t mean all of a sudden that the food is now unhealthy because there’s more sugar in it. I mean it’s more flavorful, it has more phytonutrients, phytochemicals, it has more minerals in it. As a result, you really, really taste it. Nowadays, I taste a carrot, the carrots taste like cardboard. Back when I was a kid, you bit into a carrot, it was like eating dessert. That just goes to show you how much our food has been stripped of the nutrients we’re supposed to be getting. 

I believe that a thousand years ago or two thousand years ago when we traveled more, when we ate more food from different regions and all these foods were grown naturally, the soil wasn’t depleted. Think about the Nile. The Nile would flood every year and bring new minerals to the soil, and then the Nile would go back and they’d grow. They grow all the crops there in that freshly remineralized soil. We almost had no chronic disease. People died of other things like because of sanitary reasons, but we didn’t have the diseases we have now. We didn’t have the nutrient deficiencies that we have now. 

It’s just really interesting to look at, what are we dealing with now? What’s changed? Especially in the last few hundred years, what’s really changed? But now we require supplements. I don’t think we always required supplements. I think that as humans we were getting enough nutrients at some point but now we’re not. So we really need to fill those nutrient gaps. If the body’s missing a little bit of something, it doesn’t really have any major symptoms. It’s when we’re significantly missing a nutrient that we start to have major symptoms. MD-based medicine is not designed to look at the body from the standpoint of nutrient deficiency unless it is so overt like a goiter. Unless it is so overt you basically have to look like you have come from a starving village in a different country for an MD to go, well, maybe you should take a multivitamin or something. 

But what we’re looking at because Naturopathic medicine doesn’t wait till you get sick to then treat you with a drug. Naturopathic medicine goes, let’s look at where you are now, and let’s help you get to optimal health. They’re trained differently. Naturopathic medicine is a different standpoint. We’re trying to get you to optimal health and to completely fill up all your nutrient tanks and making sure every cell is running optimally. MD medicine is an intervention that has to wait until you get sick enough to give you a drug to intervene. 

We should have both in our lives, but we should not rely only on one. We should definitely know when to go to emergency medicine and when to go to holistic medicine. Holistic medicine to get us healthy, MD-based medicine to catch us when we need emergency surgery, when we’re suffering from an infection that our body can’t handle, when we’ve been in a car crash. That’s when we want MD-based medicine. But chronic issues because of chronic lack of nutrients, that’s when we have a problem, and we need to address it by filling the body up with the nutrients it needs.

 

[01:12:22] Jennifer Saltzman: Right. Well, one of the things that come to mind too as you’re talking is a couple of things. One of them is I’m always really surprised when I have a client that’s really young and has a terrible health score. But I shouldn’t be surprised because unfortunately, they’re younger than me, I mean by half usually. It gets worse through the generations of lack of nutrition. If your mother was depleted and your father was depleted, it’s going to be worse in the next generation. But it’s really shocking and alarming the level of autoimmune issues, digestive issues, all kinds of things that people in their 20s are appearing with.

One of the things I also wanted to share about what we do and why our community because it really actually is a community. Whether a person decides to work with us at Take Your Supplements as a client only or as a person that wants to get more involved and learn about how they might influence a few of their friends and family or a lot of their sphere of influence. We have all different kinds of ways that people can engage, and that’s what I love about it because there’s never any pressure to do anything. It’s always where do you fit and how can we serve you.

But those that do decide to partake and learn, we also have an amazing ongoing level of support all for free, besides just working with the coaches. I mean, for those who want to learn more and take the health coach course. There are weekly free calls five days a week on different topics where our gut specialist comes on. Different specialists that we have that work with different parts of the supplement protocols who are skilled in different areas, there’s ongoing training on a weekly basis all for free. It all comes within the ridiculously low cost of the health coach course.

For those that are clients that work with us but they really want to become better advocates, they don’t want to take the course, or they don’t want to do the training, we also have an amazing level of educational materials and ways for them to plug into the community similar to how you have on your Learn True Health Facebook page. People can get into the community that way. We have our private Facebook groups but we also have educational webinars and lectures on different health topics from the perspective of this foundational nutrition plus the necessary add-ons that people can continue to learn.

Really our main goal is to not only help people have success with their own health, educate themselves about not having to be reliant. So for example, if your doctor tells you, oh you have a yeast infection. Please take some antibiotics. You’re going to understand that you would never do that. That’s the exact opposite thing that you need to do to get rid of a chronic yeast infection is to take an antibiotic. I mean, I get a little bit irate when it comes to stuff like that. This person was thinking yesterday and I talked to her, she’s like, “I feel so dumb.” I said, “You’re not dumb. Your doctors are completely uneducated. It’s a crime.” It’s a crime against humanity, the level of information that was suppressed early on in the early part of the century about all of this. Anyway, I don’t want to get into the whole political part of it. Don’t get me started.

The point is that we have a lot of value as your podcast has a lot of value, but it’s specific to what we do. So I just encourage people to come check us out, have a free consultation if they want to chat about what the options are. And then I just want to say one other thing and that is we have specific protocols too. For example, I mentioned a gut specialist. I want to share with you just something that happened with one of my clients.

She did years and years of cleansing thinking she had parasites, and she did a lot of aggressive parasite cleansing. She was seeing a lot of stuff and different things were happening, but when she came to me, she didn’t have very good energy. She had scattered mental issues, not really focused. A lot of things going on and a pretty negative health score. I got her on the basics and I worked with her for a while. We started with some extra digestive support, and we got her up and running so she was doing better and better. But after about four months, it became obvious to me that she really needed to do our full 20-day gut restoration protocol because she had had years of antibiotics, and she had had years of now cleansing from parasites, which is great but you can’t just cleanse, cleanse, cleanse, cleanse. You’ve got to put the good stuff back in.

After we did the 20-day full gut restoration protocol, which has been incredibly successful with people who have either chronic digestive issues, chronic health issues that won’t resolve, or chronic allergies—histamine response, skin rashes. Those are the things we’ve seen the best results with this particular protocol. But after she did that, her health score significantly went up. Now she’s sort of smooth sailing into the realm where I like to get my clients where she’s like, okay Jen, we can talk every three months now because we got her over this hump. She knew it and I knew it. I could tell just by the way she was responding back to me that it was like, oh yeah, I’m good. I’m starting to actually feel like I made progress. Even though she was getting better and better through that whole time.

So I’ve gotten a little bit more savvy to recognize when somebody might need to actually start with that protocol. Sometimes, in this last season, I will start my clients right away on that 20-day gut protocol before I will even start them on the basic foundational supplements, only because they’ve had chronic diarrhea or chronic antibiotic use or something like that.

I mean, so many of the people that you have interviewed are talking to us about the absolute vital essentialness of getting our gut on track, and so our gut specialist put together this particular protocol. A particular ND gut specialist studied the microbiome for years. She put together this very, very comprehensive protocol, and I have had phenomenal results with that.

 

[01:19:07] Ashley James: I love it. Well, Jen, I’m just so excited that you and I work together in this way to support the listeners. So many of them have come back to me and said, “I’ve worked with Jen.” I mean they’re just glowing. They’re so excited. I get feedback all the time that people have had such great results, listeners. And of course, listeners can go to the Facebook group. Now we’re coming up on, can you believe it, our fifth year anniversary of the Learn True Health podcastThe Learn True Health is going to be five years old. March 1st I believe is when we launched it, and it’s been a dream of mine to have a podcast ever since the podcast came out. 

I didn’t ever know it would go in this direction, but when I got my health back, when I was suffering for so many years and I got my health back, I knew I wanted to turn around and tell everyone, and I did. I told my friends, a bunch of my friends got on the same protocols and had amazing results. I’ve shared that in past interviews. I mean, Jen has said this over and over again in this interview, and I’ve said it—if you want to help your friends and family. That’s because when you get results, when you no longer are suffering from what you’re suffering from, you want to tell those you love. It’s really hard not to, and it’s sort of a natural human instinct. 

That’s why I love that we set this up because I helped so many of my friends and family and then they went on to help their friends and family. Let’s spread the word. We’re mission-based. We have a mission to help as many people as possible to learn true health. We have a mission to help you to no longer suffer. Suffering should be optional. When you stick with a health care system that is designed to manage the disease, you are going to be in a state of disease. That’s just it. But that’s the only thing we’re sold. I know that listeners come here because they’re sick of that system. What they want is they want more information and they realize they have to advocate for their own health. Everyone at takeyoursupplements.com has all been through the same thing. Have all had health problems, have overcome them with this protocol, with these supplements, and with removing these foods. All of them have then gone on to train and become health coaches and help others—help clients, help friends, and help the family.

We’re all in this together spreading this information, and that is the same mission that I’ve been so empowered for the last 10 years. But the Naturopaths that have trained us, that built this system, this was their experience too. Their patients, I should say, the best way that they grew their business as a Naturopath is that it was all word of mouth because their patients would get better like real results, and then they’d go tell everyone. It just grew that way. This is a word-of-mouth effort, and we’re helping as many people as we can. So keep sharing it, keep spreading it. Keep sharing the podcast, share this episode.

If you have some health complaint of any kind, even if you’ve been told you will have it for the rest of your life—we have one man, he was on the maximum dose of insulin and type 1 diabetic. Maximum dose. There wasn’t anymore it would take, and his body was not responding well to the insulin, and it was really not looking good for him. Then he got on this protocol and he was able to cut his insulin down by 75%, and he got his body back in order.

So even things that you’ve been told you have for your whole life like type 1 diabetes, you can even see improvement within that realm. Or if you’re told you have an autoimmune condition, you’ll always have it, or maybe you’ve had certain organs removed like your gallbladder. This is the thing you’re stuck with and an MD will say, well, you just have to live with it. You don’t know how amazing the body can actually improve when given all the nutrients it needs to improve given the constraints it has. Just like Jen, you have a physical constraint in your spine because of a car accident. Anyone else I know would be on massive medication and bedridden. You walk around freely because of how you’ve learned to take care of yourself with holistic medicine. This is the point is if you’re suffering from anything, even if you’ve been told you can’t get over it by a doctor. Don’t listen to those doctors.

I was told I’d never have kids. I had polycystic ovarian syndrome. I had type 2 diabetes. I had chronic adrenal fatigue. I had chronic infections. I had a very angry and inflamed liver, and I was going down a path of deep suffering for many years until I finally found this way of healing the body. I no longer have infertility. I was told by an endocrinologist that I would never have kids. We conceived our son naturally. We conceived the baby that I’m carrying right now naturally. And 31 weeks into the healthiest pregnancy, my midwife who has been a midwife for over 20 years says it’s the healthiest pregnancy she’s ever seen. 

Just to give you that idea, you don’t even know. If you just listen to an MD tell you that your limitations and you believe those limitations, those are your limitations. But if you say I do not buy into this, I will not allow these to be my limitations. I’m going to go see how much I can heal my body with natural medicine. You go to takeyoursupplements.com and you just try it. Like Jen said, just try it for 90 days and see how far you can get and then keep going from there. If you get results, keep going and just see how far you can get because look what I did and look what Jen did. That’s why I’m on my soapbox. I’m so passionate that you can have amazing health. You just got to go in this direction and give it a try.

 

[01:25:02] Jennifer Saltzman: And on that note, I want to bring up a couple of things. Sometimes people feel a little uncomfortable with the concept. They want to share this amazing information with their friends and family, or they want to help their friends and family but (a) they don’t have the time, or (b) they’re shy or whatever.

So one of the other things that we do is we have a program where that person would become like a connector. Sometimes those people may really want us to help their friends and family but they don’t want to take the course. We have that option also. I just want people to know that we work with all sorts and all types of conditions of man, so to speak. We really can try to work out whatever a person needs scenario-wise. I don’t want people to think, well, they have to necessarily take the course to get their friends and family help or anything like that. They can refer people. We are so grateful for that and we can help their friends and family with them. They can learn how to do it, any different way.

And then the other thing I want to bring up is that sometimes people are on a really limited budget and they’re like, well, can I still get help? Can I still get benefits? Absolutely. Obviously, the more people can invest the faster they get results. That’s why we’re so encouraging of folks to work with us because we talk about all those things, we look at it. We honestly try to go, okay, how much can you genuinely do on a monthly basis? Let’s do the very best that we can for you with that so that you aren’t getting stressed about money too, you know what I mean? We take it all into consideration.

I just got done with this one gal the other day and she was going to go see a Naturopath. Not that this is a bad thing to do, but not everybody needs to do this. She really doesn’t have that many health problems, but she was going to go spend $500 just to get her blood drawn. Let’s just get the process started to then figure out what she needs to do from there. I said, “Please, feel free to do that if that’s what you want, but let me suggest, work with me for 90 days, and if you still are not feeling like you’re doing as well as you need to, please go do that.”

I mean, why should somebody that’s wearing a white coat—even a Naturopathic doctor. This is so crazy, but I don’t know. It must have been a prophetic thing. I worked with a Naturopath when I was maybe 27 years old, one particular guy. He says to me, “One of these days you’re going to know more than most doctors.” How is that even possible? The truth of the matter is it’s true. It really is true. It’s not that I know anything about surgery or anything like that. I don’t understand everything, by any means. I’m still completely learning myself, but I can help people enough to get them feeling better very quickly.

 

[01:27:56] Ashley James: I like how humble you are. You know a lot. You use a very specific type of medicine where we don’t need to look at labs because we’re coming at it from a different angle. Now, that’s not to say that people shouldn’t get a yearly physical. Go get a physical from a Naturopath because Naturopaths at least spend an hour to 90 minutes with you. They really comb through your whole life, and they’re great to go. For your annual physical, see a licensed Naturopath if you can. 

Annual physicals are good. You should always just be conscious of the labs. But remember, if you go to an MD, they’re looking at your labs to see what drugs they can put you on. That’s it. They’re not looking at your labs to tell you to eat better, take a supplement, or go for a walk. Unless you’re seeing an MD that’s been trained outside of the norm and gone for holistic training or gone for functional medicine training, the average MD is looking at your labs to see when they can put you on Lipitor, when they can put you on whatever medication. It’s two totally different philosophies. Are you looking to get optimal health? Are you looking to get so sick that you need to manage disease?

I’ve helped people get so healthy that their doctors took them off of meds, and I know you have too. My goal is to help everyone get so healthy that you don’t have a life sentence from a doctor from some diagnosis. You no longer have a diagnosis because you no longer have all the symptoms and you’re just feeling great. That’s exactly what we’re here to do.

Jen, thank you so much for coming to the show. Thank you so much for sharing this information. I’m really excited to hear the results of this episode. I’m really excited to hear the listeners come. Come to the Facebook group, the Learn True Health Facebook group, and share their experiences working with Jen and working with the other coaches at takeyoursupplements.com as you go through it. I would just love to hear more feedback from the listeners.

This is something that I’m so passionate about because I’ve been through it and I went out the other side. It’s like Plato’s allegory of the cave. I don’t know if you guys know. It’s 2500 years old, it’s beautiful. You should go google allegory of the cave and watch what little YouTube videos that they make of it. But basically, Plato talks about these men that were chained in a cave their entire lives, and all they saw were shadows dancing upon the back of the cave. So they thought the entire world was two-dimensional in black and white. One day, one man escapes his chains, runs outside, and all of a sudden he sees three dimensions and color and he can’t believe it. He comes back into the cave to try to wake up his fellow man and they attack him for it because they’re not ready to hear that reality isn’t black and white and one-dimensional or two-dimensional.

So the point is, those who are listening to this podcast are escaping the cave. They’re ready to have their reality change. They’re ready to heal their body in a holistic manner, and it’s taking on a new paradigm. So take on a new paradigm and try it. You like me will become just absolutely smitten with holistic medicine when you can say that you overcame all these things that you were told you’d never overcome. It’s just amazing. The body has an amazing innate ability to heal itself.

I’m so thrilled that you’re doing the work you do. I feel blessed to work with you, Jen, and that you have helped so many of the listeners. Thank you for the work that you do. You are tirelessly daily investing all of your time into helping all these people. I have to acknowledge that the hard work you do is paying off and that all those people that you’ve helped, their lives are affecting so many people so it’s a ripple.

You’re talking to one person at a time but really you have helped hundreds of people at a time because their life goes on to help others, so thank you for the work that you do.

 

[01:32:04] Jennifer Saltzman: Thank you so much for saying that, Ashley. I really appreciate you saying that. Most of the time it’s very rewarding and people are very grateful. Once in a while, when something happens, you think oh my gosh, am I making any difference? It really is nice to hear you say that. I know it’s true, and I do receive that.

I want to share one last story with you about just the way that things happen prophetically in life. When I was really at my sickest, I met a man and he was very spiritual. He said something to me. He said, “Jen, your complete healing is not going to come, it’s going to be like a patchwork quilt. It’s going to happen when it affects the most number of people. It’s going to be like a domino effect. That’s how your life is going to be, your complete healing,” and for me, it’s been years of layers of healing—spiritually and in many different ways. You can go back and listen to my story. I think it was episodes 9 and 10 you said.

I was talking to my husband about this. Everything that I have been through but that has not been in vain, it just has not been. I think that’s what he meant when he said that thing about the patchwork quilt because if we genuinely have a desire to serve and help other people and not be in it just for ourselves, I feel like the blessing of when you look back over your life and see what you’ve had to walk through and the level in which now it’s helping other people. It’s the silver lining basically of your suffering. I just really feel so grateful, particularly in this season. It just feels like a really blessed season where a lot of people are getting help, particularly when the world is waking up to the fact that there’s so much misinformation on so many different levels. 

I just feel so blessed to be able to give this much value. I am so grateful for you and the way in which we’ve been able to share this information through your amazing listening audience because we wouldn’t be reaching near the numbers of people had it not been for this podcast. Thank you for the amazing work that you do. I am always getting so much feedback from your listeners, which is a good chunk of my clients. They just are so incredibly grateful for the way that the podcast has changed their outlook on health and continues to evolve them as people. Thank you.

 

[01:34:40] Ashley James: Absolutely. Well, let’s just keep evolving together. All of us are evolving and growing together in this health journey. I do feel truly blessed. Our suffering has not been in vain. Let no one’s suffering be in vain here as long as we are committed to helping ourselves and then helping others. We will keep growing together spiritually and physically. I can’t wait to have you back on the show to hear more stories of success. I just love it.

 

[01:35:10] Jennifer Saltzman: Awesome. Well, I look forward to it. Thank you so much.

 

[01:35:14] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s episode with Jennifer Saltzman. If you’re interested in getting some more information about becoming a health coach through the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, go ahead and go to learntruehealth.com/coach to get a free module. You can always give them a call and mention my name, Ashley James, to get the listener discount if you do choose to sign up and do the IIN program.

And then if you’d like to talk to Jennifer Saltzman or one of our health coaches that help you figure out the right supplements for you and the right diet based on the Naturopaths that we work with and the protocols that have been designed by them that work really well—these are the protocols that I was able to use to reverse all of my chronic health conditions, and Jen has used as well. We have been using it for the last 10 years with our clients having great success, then you can go to takeyoursupplements.com. All you do is fill out the information and then we reach out to you by text and email and schedule a phone call. There’s no obligation to buy anything, and there’s frankly no signup, no paying of the health coach. You talk to us and then we help you to get on the right supplements, and then you buy the supplements. There’s a 30-day money-back guarantee, so really there’s no risk and it’s all reward. 

We set it up that way so that we help people as much as possible to get their health back and get their life back because we know what it’s like to suffer. We’ve been there. We’ve been in your shoes. We really, really want to help as many people as possible to get on the other side and to get healthy. Honestly, most of our customers come from referrals because one person gets healthy and then their entire family and their friends go wait a second, what just happened? You look amazing, we’ve never seen you this way. That’s how most of our referrals come. It’s really word of mouth and that is to the credit of how great this program works.

Go to takeyoursupplements.com and check us out. Also, if you’re a health coach yourself and you want to learn more about how to become a health coach that uses these protocols, there is—as Jen talked about—a very quick program online, done at your own time, done on your own pace. You can complete it in a matter of weeks and it teaches you all of the protocols. Then there’s ongoing weekly training and support, which is really cool, and it’s a very, very, very affordable program which I love because we want to make this accessible to the masses.

You can go to takeyoursupplements.com and fill it out. If you wanted to talk to them about getting involved as a health coach or taking the health coach program through takeyoursupplements.com. We’d love to have you. Both these programs—both IIN and also the Take Your Supplements program—really complement each other as we talked about in the interview because one really specifically deals with protocols for specific illnesses, nutrition, and diet. Whereas IIN helps teach you how to be a great coach, to help people change their habits, and understand the broader nutrition. They both go really well together.

If you just want to be part of a great community, come join our Facebook group. Just find Learn True Health on Facebook or learntruehealth.com/group. That’ll direct you to the Facebook group. Come join the group. We’d love to have you there. It’s a fantastically supportive community of holistic-minded people like yourself like me all seeking true health.

Thank you so much for being a listener. Happy fifth anniversary to the Learn True Health podcast. Here’s to the next five years and continuing this journey with you. Thank you for sharing these episodes with those you care about. That is how we grow. That is how we help as many people as possible to learn true health.

 

Get Connected With Jennifer Saltzman!

Take Your Supplements  

To contact Jen to purchase the supplements she recommends: jennifer@takeyoursupplements.com

Get on our email list to stay tuned for a video of Jennifer Saltzman demonstrating Pilates training. Visit FreeDoctorCourse.com

 

Catch Jennifer Saltzman in these episodes!

Episode 9: Pilates: What It Is, Benefits, and More!

Episode 10: Heal Emotional Pain Through Spiritual Health

Episode 31: Supplement Confusion

Episode179: Finding The Cure

Episode 180: Taking Supplements and Eating Right

 

 

 

Feb 25, 2021

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At Home Gut and Mitochondrial Test - Viome.com - Use coupon code LTH

Become a Certified Health Coach Through IIN just like Ashley James! Get their Valentines Day Special! Experience a free sample of their program: learntruehealth.com/coach

 

Breast Implant Illness: Signs, Symptoms, Treatment & More!

https://www.learntruehealth.com/breast-implant-illness-signs-symptoms-treatment

 

Highlights:

  • Silicone is a neurotoxin
  • Breast implants can cause issues with the mitochondria
  • Importance of removing breast implants properly
  • Different sources of toxins
  • Alternatives to breast implants

 

Do you have breast implants or other foreign objects placed in your body? In this episode, Sarah Phillipe shares the dangers of having breast implants. Sarah enumerates different signs and symptoms of breast implant illness, the best way to remove the breast implants, and what could happen if the breast implants weren’t removed properly. She also enumerates different things that need to be addressed to recover from breast implant illness fully.

Intro:

Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. This episode really blew my mind even more so than I thought it would. If you’ve ever had plastic surgery or implants, you definitely want to listen. For those who haven’t, I still think you’re going to get a lot out of listening to this episode.

In this episode and in others, I’ve shared a bit about my journey, and one problem I really struggled with was detoxification. In the last five years, I’ve been focusing heavily on supporting my liver and on doing heavy metal detox because I discovered that was the underlying cause of a lot of my health issues. I want to point out a few things that really have helped me because if you have an illness that you think has stemmed from having implants, and of course, listening to today’s episode you will definitely gather more information to help you come to some really good conclusions and give you some directions that you’ll greatly benefit from.

For me, what’s really helped—actually doing this podcast has really helped because I followed a lot of the advice of my guests. When I interviewed Dr. Klinghardt—that’s a really good episode to go back to. He specializes in helping people who have difficulty detoxing for those, for example, who are on the spectrum, for those who suffer from mitochondrial disease, from Lyme disease, from heavy metal toxicity. He discusses a few things that we can do on a daily basis to support the body’s ability to remove heavy metals and toxins and support the liver and the emunctory systems of the body.

I began to implement what he recommended and found I had fantastic results. So one is doing almost daily sauna therapy, and I chose to invest in a Sunlighten Sauna. They do have a payment plan program, and I opted in for that. It’s like a credit card payment, and they ship you a sauna. You can get a wooden one, it’s about the size of a closet. It fits into a corner of a room, or you can get the portable one that folds up. You can tuck it away under the bed or in a closet. I did actually interview the founder of Sunlighten Sauna, so you can go back and listen to that episode.

The reason why I chose Sunlighten is they have a fantastic track record for being 100% non-toxic, and also they have a full spectrum system. So it is not just far-infrared, it’s near-infrared and mid-infrared, which shows that there are so many other benefits. For example, a decrease in pain and an increase in collagen production and elastin. There’s a youthful look that we can achieve by using the Sunlighten Sauna. But for me, it was about the heavy metal detox, which I’ve had fantastic results working with, and also decrease inflammation in my body.

The next was the Platinum Energy System, and I have interviewed Kellyann Andrews several times. Of course, you can listen to those episodes. The Platinum Energy System allows us to pull out heavy metals from our feet, which I know sounds so crazy, but she sends the water off to the labs and has graphs and charts and shows that it does pull things out. What’s really neat is I’ve given treatments to my friends, and the sludge that comes out of people when they’re in this system smells like the chemicals they’ve been using to clean with.

Someone who’s a swimmer in a Platinum Energy System and the water will smell like chlorine, will smell like pool water. It’s really crazy. But what’s awesome is anytime I feel sluggish, down, sort of toxic, I jump in the Platinum Energy System and within 30 minutes, I feel amazing. So I’ve had a great experience with it, so have my friends and my family. So you could check out those episodes with Kellyann Andrews and learn more about the Platinum Energy System.

And then the third thing I learned from Dr. Klinghardt is eating chlorella and spirulina, specifically chlorella because chlorella will naturally and very safely—in a gentle way—chelate, bind to heavy metals in the body. Now he does discuss how to eat them. Chlorella is a crop, not a supplement, so people think oh, I don’t want to overdose. Are you going to overdose on broccoli? Yes, to a certain point. You wouldn’t want to eat 20 pounds of broccoli. That’s too much. But you’re not going to overdose by having two cups of broccoli, right? You’ll feel full, but you’re not going to overdose.

So for chlorella, they dehydrate it, press it into little tablets, and you chew it. In our family, we call it the green crackers. But you want to take 30 of them at a time. So you can put them in your smoothie, or you can chew them and drink water. You do that ideally before a sauna, but you can do it every day, and that helps the body chelate these heavy metals. If you don’t eat enough of them, there becomes a problem because it kind of stirs up the toxins, and there’s not enough to bind to it. So you actually want to eat more, not less. So between 30 and 60 of these little tablets, and they also are a great source of amino acids and other nutrients.

I interviewed the founder of ENERGYbits, Catharine Arnston, who has a wonderful story about how her sister used chlorella and spirulina as part of her holistic protocol to recover from breast cancer. That’s what had Catharine Arnston start ENERGYbits because she saw that out there, most of the chlorella and spirulina in the market is tainted with heavy metals and lead. That’s why I really don’t want you to go to some website like Amazon or some store and just buy it because most of the brands out there are toxic. If you look at the bag and somewhere on the bag it says California regulation says this can cause cancer, well that’s because there’s lead in it because of how they very cheaply process the chlorella.

There are only two companies I know of on the planet that processes their chlorella and spirulina so purely that there are no heavy metals in it, and the one that I like better because I think it tastes better is ENERGYbits.

Now all these companies I mentioned I’ve asked them to give a discount to our listeners. So Sunlighten Sauna, which I absolutely love Sunlighten. Definitely give them a call and get more information from them if you want to support your daily detoxification. By the way, their benefits to sauna are amazing. Type sauna into learntruehealth.com to see the episodes or hear the episodes on that. I did have a cardiologist on, Dr. Kahn, who talks about how much he loves Sunlighten Sauna because it helps to tonify the cardiovascular system and will lower high blood pressure. That’s just one of the amazing factors. I happened to do it because I wanted to support my body in detoxification, losing inflammation, and weight loss. But other people do it for other reasons like a reduction of pain and inflammation or to support the cardiovascular system.

When you do call Sunlighten, you can mention that you heard about them through learntruehealth.com, through the Ashley James podcast.

When you talk to Kellyann Andrews about the Platinum Energy System, make sure that you mention my name because she does give a fantastic discount to those who are getting the Platinum Energy System. And then as far as the ENERGYbits, use the coupon code LTH and you will get the discount that they give for the listeners as well.

If you have any questions about this, and of course, those are my three biggest things but I do other stuff on a daily basis to support my emunctory systems, but those are my big three. 

The fourth one I could throw in is on a daily basis I do take the supplements from takeyoursupplements.com. Those supplements turned my life around. I’ve been taking them for 10 years. I was very sick. I had many, many health issues, and that was the biggest turning point for me. I had been on all kinds of supplements before, never saw a difference until I got on the supplements from takeyoursupplements.com. It’s all about quality. It’s all about giving your body the raw building blocks it needs in the bioavailability it needs. So you can go to takeyoursupplements.com and check them out. They will talk to you for free and help you. Their health coaches will talk to you absolutely for free and help you get on the right protocol.

So those are my four big tips for detoxification, but if you do have any more questions about that you can always reach out to me. You can go to our Facebook group. Join the Facebook group. Just search Learn True Health on Facebook and ask away. I’m there every day answering questions. Other guests that have been on the show are actually in the group as well answering questions, other holistic health practitioners, health coaches are there, and just passionate people like you and me who are out seeking true health through holistic means. We’re all there to support each other.

I just hope that you get so much out of this episode because truly, this information is not in the mainstream and it should, but luckily it’s here. Enjoy today’s episode. Please share it with those you care about so that we can continue to spread this information and help as many people as possible to learn true health.

 

[00:09:54] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 457. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have Sarah Phillipe on the show. Her website is reversingbreastimplantillness.com. Now, if you don’t have any breast implants I still think you should listen, even if you’re a man—we got a lot of great male listeners—you should still listen because this is such an important topic when it comes to understanding the immune system’s response to materials placed in the body.

I interviewed Kristen Bowen and I’ve had her on the show a few times. She’s the one that created my favorite magnesium soak, livingthegoodlifenaturally.com. I talk about it all the time. The coupon code is LTH for those who want to get that magnesium soak. She went down to 97 pounds, having 30 seizures a day, in a wheelchair because they put things in her body when she had surgery, and they said these things were harmless. Now we know years later that we could have an autoimmune response to even what is thought to be inert items. I’m sure Sarah is going to educate us on that.

Obviously, the person who would benefit the most from listening to this is someone who’s had plastic surgery performed on them. However, I think everyone should listen because understanding what the body goes through when we’ve had surgery and if something’s been left inside us is so important, and then how to recover from that. Sarah, welcome to the show.

 

[00:11:36] Sarah Phillipe: Thank you so much, Ashley. I’m really happy to be here and to be sharing this really important information with your audience.

 

[00:11:44] Ashley James: Absolutely. I had a listener reach out and say that you’re amazing and that we absolutely had to interview you. Now, before we get into learning about this, I had never heard of breast implant illness, although I’ve heard of autoimmune responses to objects being placed in the body. I have a dear friend—my best friend’s wife—has had issues with not breast implants but with other plastic surgery items being placed in the body. The doctors guaranteed it was safe and absolutely nothing wrong would happen and she almost died.

So it’s one of those stories that you just don’t know until it happens. The thing is that what you’re going to teach us is that it can be something where it creates a chronic illness not something sudden but someone can have it for years and not realize that it has to do with the breast implants. Before we get into that though, can you tell us about your past, about your history? What happened both personally and professionally in your life that led you to want to be an expert in this topic, illuminating this topic, and helping us better understand it?

 

[00:12:58] Sarah Phillipe: Sure. It was a place going from a place of pain to purpose really for me like a lot of us who are in the holistic health space, right? We have experienced something, a decline in our health for a particular reason or a multitude of reasons, and modern medicine hasn’t been able to help. So that leads us down this functional medicine or holistic health path of just wanting to discover the root cause.

For me, I had always wanted larger breasts. I mean, this really came from childhood, which is interesting. You don’t always think about a desire like that coming from childhood, but it really started in this pivotal moment in my life when I was a young girl. Someone really important to me—and I don’t think she had ill intentions, of course, but—unknowingly said to me you’re going to be 4’11” just like me, but don’t worry, you’re going to have the Johnson boobs. So it was that really pivotal moment for me where I just realized how important breasts are, and I had no understanding of that before that moment. 

That really stuck with me and it really shaped my perception about my body as I matured and didn’t get the Johnson boobs. I put a lot of worth into the physical appearance. I didn’t really realize who I was on the inside, not just who I was on the outside and. I think there were some driving factors there that led me to make that decision to get my breast implants placed. 

I had them placed in 2011. Prior to that, I was working in a very busy teaching hospital, night shift—very hard on my body. I was pushing my body to the brink at the gym. Tons and tons of heavy weight lifting, cardio, cyclical dieting, and just really a lot of stress. When I got the breast implants placed, that for me I believe was really the straw that broke the camel’s back. Everything else had kind of set the stage for the fall. That was just my tipping point. That just overflowed my bucket. 

Within six months I started developing symptoms, symptoms that I had never had before. I didn’t have a symptom to speak of before that. So while my body may not have been healthy, it wasn’t expressing itself in symptoms yet. But within six months, I had all kinds of symptoms. I was developing chronic fatigue, cognitive dysfunction, I had brain fog, difficulty concentrating, poor word retrieval, memory loss. I would have to read something probably 10 or 15 times to really absorb the information and be able to tell you what I read. Muscle aches and pains, joint pain, hair loss, weight gain, temperature intolerance, low libido, heart palpitations, shortness of breath. I had night sweats. I had insomnia. My mind would just race and race and race all night long. I had hormone imbalances. 

I ended up getting diagnosed with Hashimoto’s. My thyroid was low, my thyroid hormone was low. I was very sensitive to light, sound, and chemical smells. I had lots of GI symptoms, so gas and bloating, loose stool, really painful abdomen. The more I ate the more my belly hurt. I knew there was something wrong. Lots of food intolerances, these things were never a problem before.

So I went down this path of trying to figure out what was going on. I went to medical doctors who always told me, your labs look fine. Maybe you need counseling or maybe you should spice up your sex life.

 

[00:16:52] Ashley James: Wait a second, wait a second. You had a doctor say that to you?

 

[00:16:55] Sarah Phillipe: Yes.

 

[00:16:56] Ashley James: You had this whole host of symptoms. You were suffering daily and you had a doctor—was it a male doctor?

 

[00:17:04] Sarah Phillipe: Yes.

 

[00:17:05] Ashley James: And he said to you, you just need more sex.

 

[00:17:07] Sarah Phillipe: Well, yeah. I mean, with the low sex drive complaints and low hormone, he was just thinking maybe I needed to spice it up a bit.

 

[00:17:16] Ashley James: Oh, so it’s your fault that you have low hormones and low libido, and if you just spiced it up and were more active in the bedroom, that would raise your hormones. I wonder what medical journal he got that from.

 

[00:17:29] Sarah Phillipe: Yeah, very interesting.

 

[00:17:33] Ashley James: I had a doctor say that to me once actually. This is why I want to just emphasize, it’s so frustrating as a woman to have all these symptoms, all these medical problems, and not be taken seriously. the hubris of the MDs training. Anytime I get on my soapbox where I talk about MDs, there’s a lot of them that are really well-intentioned, right? But we’re talking about the ones that you saw. You went to so many specialists and they were like well it’s in your head, you just need to have more sex, or whatever. I mean, all this is just ridiculous. 

They’re just making stuff up, and the hubris of their training is that they can’t be wrong and they can’t say I don’t know what it is. Let me go find the answers for you. Let me go peer through medical journals. Let me go think about things that it could be that I don’t have training around. Most of them don’t do that. Most of them just are listening to symptoms to give you a drug, to send you on your way, and not looking to heal the root cause. This is my biggest frustration. You want a doctor that’s a detective. You want a doctor that’s holistic, that’s going to look at you your whole life and go okay, why is this happening? And not blame you. It’s your fault. You’re not having enough sex, or it’s all in your head. You just need to go for a walk and see a counselor or whatever. I mean, that’s ridiculous. 

You had all these symptoms that gradually started over time after your breast implants, and a really good diagnostician would have traced it back and seen okay yes, you were working really hard long hours and that deteriorated your health. But then, what was that one point where it all exacerbated, right? So what happened in your story that you clued in that it was your breast implants, or was it a specialist that finally figured it out?

 

[00:19:37] Sarah Phillipe: No, you know it’s interesting because I even eventually went down the path of looking for more functional medicine types of physicians. So I worked with a functional medicine doctor that I found locally and was diagnosed with SIBO and treated for that. That didn’t get better, of course. Multiple rounds of rifaximin and still no results. 

Then I found a holistic health practitioner who was a chiropractor working with a lot of people with Lyme, mold illness, and just different really chronic conditions, and so I thought this would be the perfect person for me. I point-blank asked him do you think that my breast implants are a problem? Do you think they could be creating all of these symptoms and the reason why I’m not getting better having done all these things because I had done a lot. I’ve made a lot of dietary changes, a lot of lifestyle changes. I’d really been trying to figure out how I could recover my health, and he said no. I think that if we can get Lyme under control because he had anecdotally kind of diagnosed me with Lyme. If we get the lime under control, then you’re going to be fine. The breast implants won’t be a problem.

 

[00:20:49] Ashley James: I have a question. Why did you think it could possibly be your breast implants?

 

[00:20:55] Sarah Phillipe: I think I just had this gut instinct, I had this intuition. At the time, I mean this was a long time ago. Nobody was talking about this back then. There were no Facebook groups, no websites, no podcast interviews where anyone was talking about breast implant illness. So it was just kind of this little voice in the back of my head or just in my gut telling me that it could be the breast implants and just having that medical background, I understood that something inside of me that doesn’t belong there maybe could possibly make me sick and cause all this downstream dysfunction.

At the time though, I didn’t have enough concrete evidence. That wasn’t enough for me to just go on a hunch to have them removed. It took me a long time to get to the point of deciding to have them removed. I mean, many years of going down this rabbit hole. So, yes, I had the intuition, but I didn’t trust my intuition initially.

 

[00:21:52] Ashley James: This is so interesting because this is a very similar story. We’ve had many people come on the show and share, many practitioners come on the show—these are professionals, these are scientists, these are doctors—and they too have a similar story where they were sick and when no one else knew what it was, their intuition was sort of whispering I feel like it’s this. Then they would second-guess it, and how often do we do that? How often do we second-guess? If your intuition says bring an umbrella and it’s a sunny day, or bring a sweater and it’s a warm day, how often do we second-guess that first voice? That first voice is the quietest, but that’s the truth. That is our truth. 

We have to quiet our mind, stop second-guessing ourselves, listen to that gut instinct, and then find practitioners that’ll listen to us and listen to what our gut is saying. So then what happened? It took many years. What happened that had you go, wow, I think I’m right?

 

[00:22:58] Sarah Phillipe: I’m pretty grateful for the whole experience that I went through because it really ended up leading me down this journey of becoming a health detective, so to speak, becoming a holistic health practitioner so that I could try to figure out what was wrong with me and how to fix myself.

I was no longer really in alignment with modern medicine or conventional medicine because I saw that they couldn’t help me, they weren’t helping me, and they didn’t understand why I was not doing well, why I had all these symptoms. So I knew I had to take a different approach. 

That led me down this road of becoming a holistic health practitioner, completely changing everything about my life and the way that I was living. I did a lot of work on myself. I did a lot of detox work, addressing the gut, and working on all these different things that we do in holistic health in general because a lot of these things, regardless of what the source, is there’s only really a handful of things that create chronic illness in today’s world. So they tend to be fairly similar across the board, it’s just what is the source, right?

So for me, it got to the point where my husband and I were trying to get pregnant, and we had been trying for a couple of years without success. I had ended up going to a gynecologist who specializes in endometriosis because I also had a hunch that I had endometriosis. Four or five years before that I had an ultrasound and they couldn’t find anything and sent me on my way. This particular specialist did an MRI and we discovered it was stage four. So I had bowel involvement, I had vaginal wall involvement, I had my left fallopian tube completely blocked. So there was a lot of inflammation in my pelvic floor and just my uterus, ovaries, and all of that. 

So I just knew like I had been really thinking about it a lot and kind of in my mind mentally preparing myself for it and also talking about it out loud with my husband just to prepare him for it because I knew I was going to make that decision. So it came down to the fact that I wasn’t able to get pregnant, and I had been thinking in my mind if these implants are this toxic to me and causing all this dysfunction in my own body, what are they going to do? Even if I do get pregnant, what are they going to do to a growing child in me, in my uterus? What kind of problems could that pose to a growing baby, and what about breastfeeding? Am I going to pass all these toxins along to a baby who’s breastfeeding? I just didn’t want that for my future children, and it was really that whole experience with infertility that led me to finally making the decision to explant.

So I did. Once I made that decision, I had my implants out about two months later.it was really quick once I finally committed to it.

 

[00:26:05] Ashley James: Well I take it they put you under to take them out, you weren’t awake during the procedure, right?

 

[00:26:15] Sarah Phillipe: Right.

 

[00:26:16] Ashley James: So when you woke up, did you notice the difference right away?

 

[00:26:21] Sarah Phillipe: I wouldn’t say that I had much of a difference right away. I mean, I had definitely made a fair amount of improvement, which is the work that I had been doing before my explant. So for me, I feel like I probably felt a little bit more alive, happier, just my outlook in life was improved. I felt lighter and brighter, and everyone else could see that in me. They just felt like when they were having a conversation with me, that I just came off a bit different. I just came off less intense, just calmer, more peaceful. Probably that’s because I didn’t have this chronic source of toxic exposure just overwhelming my detox pathways that can definitely create a lot of irritability, anxiety, and rage even—I’ve seen that as well. So a lot of different symptoms can come from toxic overload.

So those things I noticed right away, but I did a lot of work post explant as well. It wasn’t just this miraculous healing story for me. I had to actually go and do a lot of detox work, a lot of gut work, dealing with infections things like that because there’s the downstream effect of having breast implants, and it’s not just about removing the source. There’s more work to be done after that.

So over time, I would say it took me about a year of work before I felt pretty darn good, but I also needed to have a second surgery in between that time. So I did decide to go ahead and have a laparoscopy for that endometriosis. That surgery was a far more difficult recovery than the explant. It was a six-month recovery because I had to have a bowel resection, part of my vaginal wall was cut out. I had a fallopian tube removed and a lot of clean-up there. It was an eight-hour surgery. So that recovery was quite challenging, but I’ve never felt better and I’m really glad I did it. I wouldn’t say that excision for endometriosis is appropriate for every situation, but for mine, it was just so invasive and it had taken over so many different organs that it really needed to be done.

So after those two surgeries and doing a lot of work, I would say about a year after that is when I felt quite good. And then about two years afterward is when I really hit the point where I felt better than I had in over a decade.

 

[00:28:55] Ashley James: Amazing. May I ask you a personal question?

 

[00:29:00] Sarah Phillipe: Mhmm.

 

[00:29:01] Ashley James: Have you guys had kids?

 

[00:29:03] Sarah Phillipe: We haven’t had kids yet, we have been trying, and it’s been a long time. We’ve been trying for probably four or five years now. I’ve lost count. But for me, the interesting part that was a huge blocking factor for me was my mindset, just my beliefs about what my body was capable of. Going into a fertility specialist or an endometriosis specialist like I did, it can be really disheartening to hear really discouraging words like your chances of getting pregnant are this, then your age, and then you’re only having one fallopian tube now because we had to take it out, here are your chances. So I think that was such a mental block for me.

So over the past year, I’ve actually done a lot of mental-emotional work—working on healing past traumas, working on my belief about what my body’s capable of, and shifting that belief. And I know I’m going to get pregnant. I know my baby’s coming, but I didn’t know that before. I had doubts, disbelief. Even when I would say out loud, I know it’ll happen at the right time, I don’t think I really truly believed that. Our thoughts are so powerful. Even if we don’t speak it out loud, our cells are listening to whatever our thoughts are and responding as if it’s true.

 

[00:30:37] Ashley James: You’re a nurse and you’re a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner. You have many credentials. You work with clients, but you’re also working on yourself. When I hear that of a practitioner, that’s the practitioner I want to see. I want to go to the practitioner who is working on themselves mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, energetically. Who acknowledges that emotional, mental health is as important as physical health. Spiritual health and energetic health play a role in overall health and vitality.

Now, I got to tell you, I was told by an endocrinologist that I would never have kids, never—0% chance that I would have kids, and my husband I tried for six years. So I just want to let you know absolutely, 100% possible. And it was holistic medicine alone that helped me to become fertile. My issue is not yours. I had polycystic ovarian syndrome, not what you had. However, I’ve seen so many women with so many different complications using a really holistic approach to be able to conceive healthfully.

Once we got everything in order with our diet, nutrition, lifestyle, mental, emotional health—when we got all of it together, and for us the last step was adding just some Chinese herbs that our Naturopath was like, okay, these are the last thing. We’re just going to put this in place. Then we had to decide to watch for ovulation because, in the past, I didn’t ever track it because I was told I never had it to begin with. 

When we saw ovulation, we’re like, oh my gosh. We did it. We’re ovulating. Our very first detection of ovulation we conceived our son, and now we’re pregnant again. We’re having a daughter. And it was both on the first tries. For that to go from six years of really trying but also not having a regular cycle, not having everything lined up, but using supplements, diet, herbs, and all that.

I love that you’re looking at every aspect, and the belief system is so important because if I didn’t believe, then I would have never even gone as far as to ask my Naturopath for help in that area, for herbs, and I would have never even been conscious ever looking for when I ovulated. It’s like our belief system has us look for the evidence, has us look for the evidence that something is possible that we then can act upon. That’s why it’s so important to work on our belief system and to clean up past traumas so that we can believe in ourselves and we can believe in our own body’s ability to heal itself.

My understanding of your situation with breast implants is that it was a toxic accumulation over time that affected all the systems. Is that because what is leaching into our bodies when we have a breast implant are endocrine disruptors? Can you maybe explain what kind of chemicals are slowly leeching into our body?

 

[00:34:11] Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. Breast implants are a stressor on a couple of different levels, and one of them is that they’re a chemical stressor. It’s not just silicone breast implants, it’s saline also. Saline breast implants most people think are safer because well it’s just water, it’s just saline water. But it’s not true. The shell of the saline breast implants are made of silicone, and so silicone in and of itself is a neurotoxin.

There is evidence that it chelates neurotransmitters in the brain. We’re exposed to a lot of different sources of silicone these days. If you think about different kitchen utensils, all of the silicone that is in our personal care products, our makeup, our skincare, and things like that. There’s a lot of silicone out there, and there is one researcher who believes that it’s actually silicone toxicity that we’re dealing with when we have breast implants. That it’s a cumulative effect of not just the breast implants but all the different sources of silicone that we’re exposed to. And of course, breast implants are a pretty significant source of exposure, and they’re living in the body.

But beyond that, there’s a lot of different cytotoxic, neurotoxic, carcinogenic chemicals, and heavy metals that are really inflammatory to our cells, tissues, and organs that are in silicone breast implants specifically. So there are 37+ different toxic chemicals and heavy metals in silicone breast implants. This means things like methyl ethyl ketone, cyclohexane, acetone, xylene, phenol—these are all neurotoxins. And then they contain things like dichloromethane, toluene, benzene—those things are carcinogens. And then you have things like talcum powder, formaldehyde, lacquer thinner, printing ink, and metal cleaning acid. 

What are these things doing in breast implants? And then you have heavy metals like aluminum, tin, lead, and platinum. I actually developed some kind of reaction to my platinum wedding rings and I could no longer wear them. My finger just was like on fire every time I put it on. When I got my breast implants removed, that never happened again.

 

[00:36:35] Ashley James: Wow.

 

[00:36:36] Sarah Phillipe: So, that was a really interesting correlation there.

 

[00:36:40] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. So wait, have you ever taken these breast implants and had them analyzed by a lab to read out all of the heavy metals that are leaching into our body from them and all the chemicals? Is that information available for people to see? I bake with silicone, like it’s safe. Wait a second.

 

[00:37:02] Sarah Phillipe: Exactly. It’s not non-stick Teflon, right?

 

[00:37:06] Ashley James: Yeah, well exactly. I’ve always had that little intuitive voice we talked about, that little voice which I told it to shut up because I wanted the silicone baking pans because I thought they were so cool. I didn’t have to use oil. I’m like, look, they’re so much easier to clean. Oh my gosh, that little voice my heart was like this does not sound healthy. This sounds like it leeches stuff. Come on, don’t go for the silicone. Don’t buy into it. So, man, my little intuitive voice was right, my gut was right. The stuff we use in our baking in our kitchen that’s made of silicone, are you saying that this is also off-gassing or releasing chemicals into our food?

 

[00:37:55] Sarah Phillipe: I haven’t looked at studies on that, but I would say it’s a safe bet to assume so.

 

[00:38:01] Ashley James: Well I mean, if medical-grade silicone that they put in women is leeching stuff, can you imagine what the non-medical grade stuff in our kitchen’s doing?

 

[00:38:09] Sarah Phillipe: Exactly. There have never been like studies in humans examining what happens at body temperature with these implants, right? But there have been some animal studies that have shown that when the implants are heated to body temperature, that they do bleed out into the body. It’s called gel bleed. So, yes, they are a solid material but when they’re heated up, they do bleed into the body and the breast area is so full of dense lymphatic tissue that it’s like a highway for these chemicals to start traveling throughout different parts of the body. Not only is silicone toxic to the body, but there are some researchers out there that believe that it is considered an adjuvant connected to certain autoimmune conditions.

So basically, it’s a trigger that can trigger certain autoimmune conditions. Autoimmunity is also partly genetic. It can trigger whatever your genetic susceptibility is. It can look different from person to person. It’s not always going to be the same autoimmune condition.

 

[00:39:12] Ashley James: You’re touching on exactly my next question to you, which is some women swear they have no problems with their breast implants. I have a friend, I was surprised to hear that she had breast implants because I honestly thought they were natural. She’s so gorgeous, but she was like are you kidding me? I was flat as pancakes. She said she breastfed successfully with them. She’s very happy with them. I knew my interview with you was coming up so I started asking her questions. I’m like, how’s your health? Do you think you’ve had any negative impacts?

Well, I know she’s been focusing with her doctor—she sees a Naturopath—on brain fog, and she is a night owl. She has insomnia, and she cannot handle any stimulants. So even a little bit of coffee would drive her nuts, but I don’t know if that was how it was before the breast implants. But she says other than that, she’s in really good health, nothing to complain about. I thought, man, what if the accumulation of toxins being solely released is just exacerbating those issues?

 

[00:40:24] Sarah Phillipe: I get this question a lot of the time about will everyone get sick who has breast implants, and I tend to think of them as a ticking time bomb. From my perspective, why wait until your health spirals downhill because, usually, what I see is one of a couple of scenarios. Either someone has had a lot of different sources of toxic exposure as a child, kind of like a long history of toxic exposure. Maybe mercury amalgam fillings in the mouth, maybe they were born via a C-section and not breastfed, or maybe had a lot of antibiotics as a child and then they have amalgam fillings placed. Maybe they get breast implants and the breast implants are just that thing that overflows the bucket.

And then I see another scenario where someone maybe had a pretty healthy, pretty uneventful childhood. Not a lot of toxic exposure, a healthy diet, not sick a lot. Maybe they got breast implants and have had no problems, and it’s been decades and they’re thriving. And then maybe later on in life, they experience divorce, loss of a loved one, or a car accident. And then maybe they have root canals and end up developing cavitations, which are infections in the jaw, and something ends up becoming the tipping point. 

So there’s a lot of these different types of stressors that accumulate, build up in the body, and tax the body’s ability to cope with more. At some point, there can be something that becomes the straw that breaks the camel’s back, and then someone develops a lot of symptoms. Symptoms don’t happen early on when there’s dysfunction occurring. They’re one of the last things to occur. And when symptoms start happening, it’s usually that the body has been breaking down for quite some time and the symptoms are just the body’s way of communicating to you that it is time to start waking up and paying attention to what’s going on.

 

[00:42:25] Ashley James: What about MTHFR? How much does that play a role in this? I have a friend who has just the most severe form of MTHFR. I tried to say to her, there are phases of it, or I was trying to explain that you could have different snips like the 25%, 25% on each side, or 50% on each side, or 75% percent, and she has 100% which means she says her body only can methylate 23% and everything affects her. That she walked into a store and inhaled some perfume, she’d have a migraine. Anything that her body has to detox something, she’s down and out for the count. So she has to lead the cleanest lifestyle. 

Do you have something like that where their liver cannot process phase one and phase two of detoxification properly? Everything gets backed up because of that. So someone who knows that they have any variant of MTHFR would definitely not be a candidate for having anything implanted in their body, which could then slowly over time increase toxicity, that it would just put this added stressor on the liver. Have you seen a link between those with MTHFR and breast implant illness?

 

[00:44:03] Sarah Phillipe: I have, and I think I’m a little biased though because the women that come to me that I work with are women who are quite ill even after their explant surgery. So I tend to see women who do have a lot of struggle regaining their health after having their explant. Usually, there is an MTHFR gene mutation or two. Well, I’m heterozygous for C677T, but I don’t have a really, really down-regulated methylation activity in the body. My body is methylating fine.

So in my mind, it goes back to the difference between what your body is able to handle versus what you’re exposed to. I kind of liken it to either a two- or a four-lane highway at rush hour, which one is going to be moving more traffic? Obviously, if you have more lanes, the traffic’s going to flow better. And if you have fewer lanes, the traffic’s going to get jammed up a lot more easily. 

So I think it’s not all about the MTHFR. It’s really about the fact that we’re living in a very, very toxic world dealing with far more than our bodies were ever designed to cope with, and then we add something like breast implants on top of that and it can be devastating. I don’t think it’s just our genes, it’s how the environment is interacting with our genes.

 

[00:45:34] Ashley James: I hesitate to use the word mental illness because there’s such a stigma around it, but what kind of emotional problems arise in women who have had breast implants who are experiencing this toxic load? We talked about insomnia and brain fog. Does it increase depression, anxiety? You talked about anger. Can we talk about the emotional aspects because women who are more likely to get breast implants are more likely to see a doctor for emotional issues and then be put on drugs for that as well further increasing the toxic load? I love that highway analogy. 

Based on how much you’re methylating, based on how much you’re able to detox, let’s say you only have two lanes, the breast implants are adding more cars. Any pharmaceutical drug is adding more cars. Even some herbs the body has to then process adding more cars, right? What’s in our air, what’s in our water, what’s off-gassing from our carpets, right? If you go get your nails done, your hair did, and whatever kind of cosmetic products you use—all these chemicals. There are over 80,000 man-made chemicals made in the last 50 years that our bodies were not designed to have to handle, and here we are having to handle it. It’s all adding more cars to the highway, thus slowing it down, causing a backup, causing a toxic load in the body.

We need to start, obviously, removing those loads. But for someone who begins to have that load build, they may not recognize physical symptoms as a problem. For you, someone said you have Hashimoto’s, you have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, you have this problem, you have this physical problem, you have this physical problem. So they were addressing them. You have Lyme disease, and all these different doctors, because they’re looking for what they specialize in and they’re seeing symptoms. Oh, these symptoms match so we’re going to treat you for this. It doesn’t seem as obviously connected to the breast implants.

But what about emotional issues? If you’re someone who’s never really been prone to anxiety or maybe just minor anxiety and all of a sudden you have panic attacks to the point where you’re being put on anxiety meds, or you have depression, or you have insomnia, or these emotional issues come up. Can you talk about the emotional side effects of breast implant illness?

 

[00:48:09] Sarah Phillipe: Absolutely. It’s very, very common. I see a lot of depression, a lot of anxiety, a lot of panic attacks, and a lot of feelings of overwhelm like you just can’t handle any kind of stress whatsoever. To me, that really signals the fact that your body is completely overloaded, and any kind of stimulation just is overwhelming for your body to try to cope with. Any kind of stress whatsoever triggers that stress response. 

For me, I experienced this pretty significantly. It started off with just a very irritated nervous system to where when I would go down into the garage to do my workouts, I had to have complete silence like no music. I cannot work out with my husband in the garage because his heavy breathing irritated me. In between my sets, I would have to sit down and gather myself because it was so incredibly stressful on my body. Any kind of additional stress was just throwing me over the edge. It made me very irritable, really hard to recover from stress, and even a difficult conversation, I couldn’t handle that. I would blow up and start screaming and yelling because I couldn’t handle one more thing.

So for me, the anxiety, the anger outbursts, heart palpitations, symptoms of anxiety, of chest tightness, feeling like I couldn’t take a deep breath. When I would go out into public, that was really hard for me because any stimulation from a crowd would just send me into this downward spiral. And even just being around family, if they were being loud and rambunctious. I have a husband with triplet brothers, so you can imagine there’s a lot of wrestling going on and stuff like that, a lot of competition. When we would all get together, I sometimes would just have to leave the house because I couldn’t handle even the audible stimulation. That to me was overwhelming.

So those types of things that I experienced are really, really common. No one understood what the heck was going on with me. People thought I was crazy.

 

[00:50:34] Ashley James: Well, this makes so much sense because it’s almost like inflammation on the brain. It’s inflammation of the nervous system having to handle this toxic load. But at the same time, a lot of what you just shared sounds like the autonomic nervous system being stuck in the sympathetic mode of fight or flight. There are ways of measuring that. We can look at heart rate variability now. 

I’m just curious. Let’s say breast implants, if having them puts the body in a state of stress like just triggers the autonomic nervous system so that we’re in fight or flight, which would then easily explain why would people have insomnia, why would they have that irritability, why would they have outbursts, why would they be on edge? And then you’re being told by a doctor it’s all in your head, you’ve got to go see a counselor. 

Well, no. The root is in the body. Our physical body and our emotional body are connected. So when we have emotions, yes, of course, sometimes we get to come at it from healing traumas. We also have to come at it from looking at what’s going on in the body that’s putting us in this state, and it sounds like you were in fight or flight. Have you been able to measure that at all or look into that at all with your clients to see if they are kind of stuck in fight or flight?

 

[00:52:02] Sarah Phillipe: Well, when I did my own testing back when I was really, really sick, my neurotransmitters were completely tanked. I didn’t really produce a whole lot of neurotransmitters, which when you’re dealing with a lot of different sources of stress, you need norepinephrine and epinephrine in order to cope with that. That gives your body energy and the ability to either fight or flee, and I didn’t have that ability. I didn’t have those neurotransmitters at the adequate level that I needed them, which of course resulted in a lot of symptoms.

My heart rate variability—and this is true for a lot of my clients—was very low. It was like a deep parasympathetic more than a fight or flight. I think a lot of us that are stuck with these chronic symptoms and not getting better, it’s more of this deep parasympathetic that we’re just not coming out of. And it’s more of a result of the mitochondrial function and how the mitochondria are really just going to bat for you rather than producing energy for you. So they go into this battleship mode rather than energy production mode, and that takes away from your cells and their ability to function, which your organs are made up of cells so you have different organs not functioning as well as they should. Hormone production takes a back burner, neurotransmitters take a back burner, things like that that are just required for someone to feel good, right?

So that’s really a lot more common than fight or flight. I think the longer you’re dealing with chronic illness the more your body just goes into this deep parasympathetic mode and your mitochondria are just shut down. It’s like hibernation.

 

[00:53:48] Ashley James: Right, total exhaustion. That makes sense. I had chronic adrenal fatigue and I can relate to that. It’s like you’re walking dead. The overwhelm was real. Any stimulus was overwhelming. That makes sense. So what part of the breast implant harms the mitochondria? Is it a direct causality, or is it somewhere cascading down the way?

 

[00:54:17] Sarah Phillipe: I think that it’s on a few different levels. I think the toxic exposure, so toxins are one stressor that can definitely shut down the mitochondria, and they’re very delicate, right? They’re the canary in the coal mine, so to speak, so they’re very easily damaged.

 

[00:54:37] Ashley James: Well, they’re bacteria. I mean that’s the fascinating part is that just like our gut bacteria can be easily harmed, so can our mitochondria because they’re bacteria. We really have to take care of them because they’re what keeps us alive, they’re what creates our cellular energy. 

I was fascinated by interviewing the woman who cured her MS using this theory that the MS was a mitochondrial disease, and then she ate a diet full of all the nutrients the mitochondria needed and removed all the foods that could harm the mitochondria. Lo and behold, she went from practically being months away from being dead to being able to walk again, then ride a bike, and ride a horse. I am having such a brain fart right now, I’m going to blame pregnancy brain, which I can. I’m allowed to. But she’s quite amazing, Terry Wahls?

 

[00:55:41] Sarah Phillipe: Yeah, I know Terry.

 

[00:55:42] Ashley James: The Wahls protocol and her TED Talk. She gave a TED Talk I believe is 2012. I love that she shows pictures of her in her special wheelchair that would have her feet higher than her head because that’s what she had to do. The doctors were basically saying that she was months away from death, and she stopped it and reversed it. She went to all the best doctors in the world for MS. They wanted to give her chemotherapy, they wanted to do all these things to her, and she just sat down one day and her goal was to live long enough to see her kids graduate high school. She sat down and thought, okay, well this is a mitochondrial problem. How do I heal my mitochondria? 

Isn’t that interesting that it just takes one doctor with that detective mind we talked about to stop thinking inside the box that they’ve been trained to think in and start looking at the body and going what’s going on and how do we support the body with nutrition?

So here we have this toxic overload. You said the mitochondria is incredibly sensitive, and just the toxins from breast implants can cause some issues for the mitochondria. What else in this big picture is affecting the mitochondria?

 

[00:56:57] Sarah Phillipe: Well, you also have the fact that breast implants are foreign objects. They don’t belong in the body, and so that is a chronic source of immune stimulation. It’s chronic inflammation recruiting inflammatory cytokines. They’ve been able to show even through just doing cultures on the implants the fluid inside the implants if they’re saline, and then also the capsule and the fluid around the capsule in between the capsule and the implant. 

They’ll do cultures for those things, and they’ve been able to show 10+ different bacteria that are growing between the breast implants and the capsule themselves. It’s like a petri dish, basically, for all these different microbes to start growing, and it can be even a low-grade growth of these microorganisms that is just this chronic source of immune stimulation. Your body really can’t get those things under control because it’s got this foreign body that is like this big distraction. Your body’s trying to go to work to address that foreign object. 

That’s the reason that it creates a capsule around the implant. It’s scar tissue. It’s trying to wall that implant off so that it can protect your body from that exposure. But unfortunately, our breasts are not sterile. There’s a lot of bacteria even within the breast tissue, and it’s a perfect environment for all kinds of different microbes to grow, wreak havoc, and thrive in the body that kind of goes undetected by the immune system.

Part of that going undetected is the fact that they create biofilm around themselves to protect themselves from the immune system in general. The biofilm is the biggest problem with regards to breast implants and different infections, the causation, and the connection there. So we’ve got lots of different types of toxins coming from breast implants, which sets you up for this perfect storm situation because different unwanted microbes thrive in toxic terrain. They use toxins and heavy metals to create their biofilm, and some things like parasites will feed off of those things, will feed off of heavy metals, and candida as well will feed off of heavy metals.

So you can have a lot of downstream dysfunction going on as a result of breast implants being in place. Chronic immune stressor because they’re a foreign object, and then a chronic chemical stressor because of all the different toxins that can bleed into your body from that exposure.

 

[00:59:46] Ashley James: That is fascinating. The body creates scar tissue around the breast implant. I mean, any woman who’s been pregnant or breastfed knows about mastitis. The breasts are designed to make breast milk that has all these good bacteria in it. We’re giving healthy bacteria and an immune system to an infant, so of course, it’s not a sterile environment inside the breast. To think that anything skin deep, anything below the skin is sterile is silly. 

Putting a foreign object there, then it creates scar tissue around it, and then there are bacteria that are growing like a bad culture that can develop in your gut. Imagine the bad cultures developing around your breast tissue, and they themselves—even if it’s a low-grade constant low-grade infection—any kind of microbial presence as they die off creates toxins. Essentially, whatever they poop out is a toxin. That’s why we feel so crummy when we’re coming off of a cold, flu, or food poisoning. It’s actually the toxins left behind the poop and also the bacteria that are dying. All the toxins left behind make us feel so horrible because it is such a stressor on the body to have to handle those toxins.

So not only is the body having to deal with that slow constant release of whatever’s in the breast implant, which you’ve mentioned some items that don’t sound too savory. And then it’s also dealing with any kind of bacteria or any kind of microbial buildup around the breast implants because it’s so hard for the body to get to that area to clear it out. And the immune system’s all kind of revving up and having to work on that.

I’m sure you’ve looked at the meta-analysis. Statistically, women with breast implants, do they have a higher likelihood of developing cancer?

 

[01:02:15] Sarah Phillipe: That’s an interesting topic that I haven’t delved a lot into, but I do know that there is a connection between breast and someone women who have breast implants and a higher incidence of colon cancer, which is interesting, right? Not breast cancer. The theory is because the implants are putting a lot of pressure on that area.

 

[01:02:38] Ashley James: The immune system looking at it.

 

[01:02:41] Sarah Phillipe: I tend to think about it in a different way with regards to colon cancer where a lot of the toxins we’re exposed to end up going right to the gut. That’s one of the ways we eliminate through the liver and then dump it into the gut for elimination. So I have to wonder too, how much of the toxicity component is playing a part in the development of abnormal cells in the colon?

 

[01:03:04] Ashley James: I had this explained very scientifically once, and I’m going to try to do it in my layman’s terms. These 80,000 chemicals that are in our environment, our food water, and our breast implants, all that, the body doesn’t recognize these. So the liver gets rid of them but then the colon will reabsorb them if we don’t poop three times a day. If we don’t have enough fiber to bind to those the toxins in the bile and let’s say you have a little bit of constipation, the body does not see the difference between bile just to reabsorb because bile is costly, so the body wants to reabsorb it and reuse it. But there are these toxins that are in it. The colon doesn’t go oh wait, I shouldn’t reabsorb these because I’m actually just reabsorbing all the toxins again.

This is why it’s so important whenever you’re doing certain detoxes and certain parasite cleanses to consume binders. People eat clay and they eat activated charcoal, or they take a lot of fiber in their diet. If you’re going to do one of those cleanses, I highly recommend doing it with a practitioner that knows what they’re doing. Don’t just randomly buy stuff.

I really like Dr. Jay Davidson. I had him on the show twice. I really recommend listening to those two episodes. Listeners can go to learntruehealth.com and search Jay Davidson for those two episodes. He explains a bit more about the binders and stuff, but here we have the body reabsorbing all the toxins the liver worked hard at to get rid of. So no wonder if the colon wall is being bathed and reabsorbing and bathed and reabsorbing and bathed and reabsorbing these toxins. That makes sense.

 

[01:04:58] Sarah Phillipe: I absolutely agree that people out there in the world should not be attempting to do detox work on their own without a trained professional. I think that’s so important. I’ve seen so many women just make themselves so much worse.

 

[01:05:13] Ashley James: Can you explain a bit why? Because a lot of listeners, myself included, have attempted our own detoxes because we read an article, we hear from a friend, or maybe we listen to a show, and then we just go to town and make our own version of it. Going out and getting a colonic is fine, or going out and doing sauna therapy and eating chlorella, that’s fine. But if you have, for example, Lyme disease and then you decide to take all these herbs to kill it or something and you don’t have the right dose or you’re not preparing the body, all the emunctory systems correctly beforehand. You don’t have something to break down the biofilms. I mean, there are just all these things to focus on before we go to just kill the parasite or kill the infection, which can make it much worse like you said. 

Could you give an example? Maybe teach us a little bit. We have women who are listening, let’s say they have breast implants. We have some women that have breast implants, and we have women that don’t have breast implants, and maybe they’ve already had them removed. How do we recover from breast implant illness?

 

[01:06:29] Sarah Phillipe: Well, that’s a loaded question.

 

[01:06:33] Ashley James: Give us the starting point. Where should we set ourselves up mentally? What should we start really looking into focusing on doing because you’re a detox expert? You’re an expert on breast implant illness, so let’s talk about the women who do have breast implants first. So they have breast implants, you’ve now opened their eyes to the possibility that this may be putting a major stressor. They can’t pinpoint exactly, oh it’s definitely causing this, or it’s definitely causing that. They’re starting to hear all these things that it could be causing, now you’ve got their interest. What can we do to support their health?

 

[01:07:16] Sarah Phillipe: With regards to healing in any situation, with regards to any root cause, I think the very first step is removing the source. We can do a lot to support our body with good clean water, clean food, good nutrition, exercise movements, good sleep, and things like that, but without removing the source, we can never really truly heal. 

Removing the source means getting the breast implants removed, and there’s a very specific way that needs to be done to protect you. So I would look for a surgeon who has lots and lots of experience with explants, ideally even a surgeon who no longer places breast implants because they’re more likely to believe what you’re going through is real, believe that the breast implants are a problem, and do everything in their power to remove them properly so that you have the best chance at recovering your health.

 

[01:08:23] Ashley James: When you say remove them properly should they also remove that scar tissue capsule the body has built around them?

 

[01:08:29] Sarah Phillipe: Yep, absolutely because within that matrix of the capsule is going to be a lot of the different toxins that are found in breast implants because they bleed into that capsule, and also biofilm, bacteria, maybe even mold, mycotoxins, and things like that. So really important to get that source out. That’s what I mean when I say properly is that ideally, it would be done on block which means that the implants on the capsule are removed together as one unit rather than cutting the capsule open and taking the implant out first. A lot of really reputable explant surgeons who’ve been doing this for years and years will be able to remove your implants on block.

The ones who say it’s not necessary or I’m not comfortable with that, I’ll probably look elsewhere because you don’t know if you have a rupture until you’re in there. It doesn’t even matter if it’s saline or silicone, especially with silicone, you don’t know if you have a rupture until you’re in there. With saline, you tend to have an idea because it’ll start shrinking, or it’ll just go flat. But you can have a slow leak and it can change in size a little bit but not significantly enough to notice.

You don’t want to have that capsule cut open and risk whatever contents are in there spilling out into your chest cavity and then getting into the lymphatic system and traveling throughout the body. So that’s why it’s important to have them removed on block so that we’re protecting you from that exposure. And then if they can’t be removed on block or if any speck of capsule is left behind, the surgeon should go in and remove every tiny piece of capsule that’s in there. Sometimes that means scraping the ribs, sometimes that means removing a little bit of your own tissue to get it out, but that’s an important piece.

Having any capsule left behind is just going to be a chronic source of immune stimulation. It’s a little bit harder to recover from. I wouldn’t say it’s impossible because I don’t like absolutes, but it’s definitely more challenging.

And then once the implants are out, once you give your body enough time to heal from that surgery, I think that’s important to allow your body to rest, recover, and heal from that generally for about a month. As long as there are no complications, no hematomas, no seromas, no infections, no wound dehiscence, and things like that. As long as everything heals properly, then about a month after that, you can start doing some work on detoxing your body, addressing infections, and things like that.

How I like to look at each unique person, and you could do this on your own, is I have people write me a self-narrative of their life from birth until now. It doesn’t have to be a long novel. It can be really a timeline of you plotting every different type of stressor you’ve encountered in life starting from birth. It can be physical, it can be chemical, it can be mental, emotional, it can be structural, it can be any type of stressor. I like to have people do that because it’s really helpful for me to be able to see how you got here, and then we can work backward with trying to figure out how we’re going to start incorporating some of these things into the plan for how we’re going to address them.

And then I always think that functional lab work is helpful to look for other hidden stressors because not only are there going to be downstream effects of having breast implants like different types of microbial imbalances and toxicity. There are also going to be potentially other different types of hidden stressors in the body that may be unrelated. Maybe you had some health issues prior to the breast implants going in. Maybe you had ulcerative colitis, SIBO, candida overgrowth, or things like that. Those things also have to be taken into consideration.

A lot of hidden things that people most people don’t think about or don’t even know exist to know to think about or look for are hidden infections in the jaw. If you’ve ever had any tooth pulled or a root canal, there is a significant chance that you have cavitation in the jaw, which is an infection in the jaw. That’s another source of low-grade chronic inflammation stimulating the immune system. We discuss to release their own toxins into your body that travel throughout the bloodstream. That can be one thing that keeps people sick. Amalgam fillings, silver fillings in the mouth—that’s another chronic source of toxic exposure.

We have to look for other sources beyond breast implants because it’s a cumulative effect. As far as healing goes, I think it’s important to always start with supporting the downstream detoxification pathways, which means you have to be pooping two to three times a day—that’s a priority. If you’re not pooping, you’re not detoxing. Dr. Jay Davidson talks about this a lot, you have to think about the detox pathways as a funnel. The bottom of the funnel is the gut. You need to be removing your bowels regularly, that’s waste, that’s toxic waste. The more it sits there, the more it’s going to be reabsorbed back into circulation.

The next above that is going to be your kidneys and liver and then your lymph above that. So if you’re someone who’s going out and getting lymphatic massages but you’re not pooping every day, how are those toxins going to get out? You’re probably going to feel a lot worse after a lymphatic massage. That’s the order of things and making sure those are well-supported and functioning the way that they should, proper hydration and minerals.

When the body is ready, I think you can start addressing more of the gut—working on balancing the gut. Whether that looks like just introducing probiotics that can help balance the gut or whether that looks like going after specific pathogens like parasites, fungal overgrowth, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth—whatever that looks like for you, it’s going to be different from person to person. But addressing the gut I think is a helpful place to start after that because when you get into deeper detox work, you’re going to be dumping toxins into the gut and that can be very irritating to the gut. We want the gut to be in a good place before we start doing that.

And then I think the next step—from my approach anyway—is oral chelation. Using true binders, strong binders that are able to get past the gut lining, get into your cells, and bind onto toxins strongly and long enough to be able to get them out of the body. So a lot of the binders that people are using out there, a lot of the time I see people using one product like a zeolite and nothing else. That’s their detox. If all you’re doing is using something like zeolite, yeah, that will bind toxins but you also have to think about the source. 

Some zeolites are not tested for heavy metals, and that’s another source of toxic exposure to you because that’s a natural curator in the environment and so it can be contaminated and adding to the level of toxicity. And then if all you’re doing is binding and you’re not supporting other pathways, you’re going to burn out, you’re going to crash. You’re going to burn through your methyl groups, you’re going to burn through glutathione. That’s assuming that your detox pathways are open and working well.

 

[01:16:09] Ashley James: How do you test—as a practitioner—your clients’ detox pathways?

 

[01:16:16] Sarah Phillipe: It can be a little tricky to test for those things because we don’t have a really solid test that says, yes, you’re methylating really well or you’re glutathione stores are adequate. But I generally look at a comprehensive blood panel. There are some clues we can pick up on there about methylation and glutathione. I like the organic acids test as well. There are some clues there we can look at for methylation activity, glutathione, and things like that.

As far as kidneys and liver, you’re not going to see anything show up abnormal on blood work until there’s pathology, until there’s a disease, so you won’t usually see that. I generally go by just how someone is feeling overall. If they’re feeling unwell, generally speaking, the detox pathways are not well supported. They’re probably congested. Usually, once we start supporting those pathways, people feel quite a bit better pretty quickly just being able to eliminate things.

 

[01:17:28] Ashley James: So you’re listening to people instead of telling them it’s in their head, they need more sex. You’re listening to how they’re feeling, and that’s very important. That’s why I like going to naturopaths over medical doctors because naturopaths will look at the same labs but they have a totally different way of analyzing the labs. 

If you go to an MD, you’re lucky to spend 15 minutes with them. If you go to a Naturopath—a good one, I mean there’s bound to be good and bad doctors out there regardless of whether holistic or not. Find a good Naturopath that’s been practicing for a long time, and they sit down with you to six for 60 to 90 minutes to go over your comprehensive labs. They’re looking for, are you out of optimal ranges, and how can we get you back in optimal ranges? So their sensitivity to the lab. So if they look at kidney function, they’re looking, are you even remotely nearing towards not optimal? The red warning bells are going to go off in their head if they see signs that you are even in low normal. 

Whereas an MD is waiting for you to be so sick they can put you on a drug because they don’t have any other tools until you’re sick enough for them to give you a drug to “manage,” not cure your symptoms. Whereas going to a holistic practitioner like yourself, a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, going to a good Naturopathic physician have so many tools. They’ve got diet, herbs, lifestyle, all these things that scientifically are backed and proven to support the body to get back into optimal ranges. But we have to look at the labs differently. We have to look at them from the standpoint of are you in optimal health, are you creeping out of optimal health? 

And then of course listen to the client and believe them when they say, I feel this way, I feel this way, I feel this way. Believe them and go, okay, and take that into account along with the labs for understanding the whole picture about the person. That’s why I like going to like yourself, a functional medicine practitioner or a Naturopath, that spends enough time with you that they can really get the full picture of what’s going on in your life and they can do that detective work.

I know almost every episode of my show, over 450 episodes, has been kind of a commercial for seeing holistic practitioners because I spent years beating my head against a wall seeing medical doctors just being given drug after drug and I was so sick. If I stayed in that world, if I stayed in mainstream medicine, I don’t even know if I’d be alive. But if I stayed in mainstream medicine, I’d still be on monthly antibiotics, I would still be infertile, my weight was out of control so I imagine I’d probably be one of those people on gurneys. My type 2 diabetes was completely out of control. I had really bad polycystic ovarian syndrome, infertility, and adrenal exhaustion so bad I could barely function. It was getting worse and worse and worse, and that was in my 20s. 

If I had stayed that way and kept seeing MDs, I would just keep getting worse and keep being put on more and more drugs. I don’t even know if I’d be here. I’m so grateful for holistic medicine and for just snapping out of it and going I reject this entire system. I will gladly go to an ER if I need emergency medicine like I have a broken arm or something, or I have an infection that I can’t handle. I would gladly go to an ER—allopathic, reductionistic medicine when they take you apart, look at your little organs, and don’t look at you as a whole. That is fantastic for saving your life if you’re in a state of life or death. That’s where they shine. I don’t want to go to a Naturopath if I have a broken bone that needs to be reset and put in a cast or whatever. 

But when it comes to chronic illness, that system of medicine is causing more chronic illness than healing. It perpetuates chronic illness, and it also perpetuates the idea that if you have, for example, an autoimmune problem, you will always have it. I was told I’d always have diabetes. I was told I’d always have polycystic ovarian syndrome. I’m sure you were always told that you would have the conditions that they diagnosed you with. And all of our listeners who have been to enough MDs who have had enough health problems have been told, oh, it’s because of your genetics. You will always have this. Or it’s because of your age or because of whatever. They tell you with such hubris that you will always have this condition.

Here we have Sarah teaching us that you can go see her and she’s going to look at your labs in a different way. She’s going to listen to you, listen to your symptoms, and she’s going to help you completely change your lifestyle, your diet in a good way. Sometimes that’s a little overwhelming and scary for people, but holding your hand doing it. I’m a health coach so I know. I’m not going to throw the kitchen sink at you but get your body to the point where your body is so healthy you feel the healthiest you’ve ever felt in your life. 

You can’t get that from MD medicine. You can’t get that from pharmaceutical-based medicine to feel the healthiest you’ve ever felt in your entire life from causing more toxins to the body. It all starts with the mindset, and I believe you talked about this before. It really does start with the mindset. We have to change our mindset, completely rewire our mindset to go into this new way of thinking. Believe the body can heal itself and then act accordingly.

 

[01:23:50] Sarah Phillipe: Yeah, absolutely. And I believe that the body was designed with this God-given innate intelligence to self-heal if we take responsibility for our health and take the actionable steps needed to get it back. That mindset component is so huge, and I think it even bleeds into how we think about our condition and how it happened. 

With women with breast implants, I think this is so important because a lot of women with breast implants who are sick and they discover breast implant illness, the feelings—initially can become chronic—are of shame, guilt, regret, and then also anger towards the medical system. Why didn’t I know about this? Why wasn’t I told? There’s a lot of anger towards doctors and the medical model, and I think that’s not a healing mindset. We have to get out of the victim mentality in order to heal.

 

[01:24:59] Ashley James: I think it’s good to bring that up. I think it’s good to address. Anger, if held on to, is toxic. But anger that is processed is healthy because if we bury it, we don’t process it, or if we just try to stick it somewhere without really processing, working through it, healing it, that’s also holding on to a toxin. I know because that was me. But actually facing the anger, being with it because there are two forms of anger. You can take a negative emotion, it’s a negative emotion about the past. 

For every time you’ve been hurt by someone you felt angry about it, that’s a gestalt in your neurology that you’re holding on to. That’s a chain of all of the events from your past, and that’s incredibly toxic because that gets reanimated inside our neurology every time we relive something that brings up anger. But anger in the moment about something that’s happening, let’s say, to us which I understand I don’t want to go into victim mode either, but something that’s happening that is violating our boundaries. 

Anger is our body and our mind’s way of saying my boundaries are being violated. You got to do something about it. And if we take action to stop our boundaries from being violated and then process the anger, work through it, heal it, release it, and don’t hold on to it, don’t stay in it, but acknowledge it. Acknowledge, yes, my boundaries are being violated.

Once we take action towards not allowing our boundaries to be violated like firing the MDs that no longer help you and hiring new doctors and new practitioners that are going to serve you. That is an actionable step because if you’re staying in victim mode, you’re going to stay with your captors, you’re going to stay with the people who victimized you. But taking all the actions to ensure that your boundaries are healthfully enforced. When anger comes up go ask yourself, is this anger because my boundaries have been violated, or is it anger from the past? And work through it. 

Getting to that point, I think anger is healthy when it allows us to see that we have been down a path that’s hurt us, and now we’re seeing all the things that did hurt us. As long as we can go, okay, I’m going to enforce my communication, my boundaries, my research, everything. My mindset is now shifting. I am asserting myself, I am advocating for myself, and I will only put medical professionals on my team that is in alignment with my values and my boundaries, and just acknowledging that that anger was a motivation to get you there. 

But don’t stay in it. Don’t say in victim mode because like you said, that shame, guilt, and that anger—we turn it inwards and start beating ourselves up, why did I do this to myself? Why did I let this happen to me? That is really unhealthy, so we have to let it go. I love that you’re acknowledging that because I think there’s so much emotional process work we have to do if we’re coming to terms with a choice we made in our past that has led us down this really negative route and now we’re looking to reverse it. So we also have to reverse and heal all the emotions associated with it.

And then what about everything that led up to a woman choosing breast implants? I know it’s unique for each woman, and I don’t have breast implants so I can only imagine that for me to choose to get breast implants, I would have had such an insecurity—and this was just me, I’m not saying all women—that I needed to get them so that I would stop feeling that way about myself. Do you also look at that and look at what happened emotionally that had you want to get them, and is there anything to heal there?

 

[01:29:11] Sarah Phillipe: Certainly. I think there’s a lot of reasons why people get breast implants, and it’s not always vanity. For some people, it is a decision after having a mastectomy from breast cancer. For other people, they went in to have a lift after they were done having children and the doctor convinced them that they needed to have breast implants.

 

[01:29:37] Ashley James: Good salesmen. He had a boat payment.

 

[01:29:42] Sarah Phillipe: And then for other people, they were like me and just really had a lot of insecurity. The breast implants made them feel a lot more beautiful, sexy, or worthy. I think there’s a lot to think about, and I think it really just takes doing a bit of digging, reflecting, and processing everything that has happened. I really don’t think that this kind of thing happens to us. I really think that it happens for us. Personally, I can’t speak for everyone but for me, I really feel like I went through this partially to really discover who I really am inside as a person, as a human being beyond just the physical appearance. There’s so much growth that happened as a result of that, and I will say I’m probably not the same person that I was 10 years ago.

Secondly, I think it really has taught me how I should be living just to maintain my health, to keep my health for life and rather than just struggle through life with a lot of symptoms and bounce around from doctor to doctor, this surgery and that surgery, and all these different prescriptions like most Americans. But it taught me how I should be living in order to really live a healthful vibrant life full of joy that we deserve.

I think that we can take this experience and really learn a lot about ourselves, about who we are, and about how we should be living. It can be a positive experience once we can get to that place of going through those emotions of whether it be anger, sadness, regret, shame, or whatever, and acknowledging those things, and then letting them go, moving on, moving forward, and not looking back. Continuing to take the next right step each day towards your future.

 

[01:31:51] Ashley James: I’m sure you’ve been asked this, is there a safe alternative to breast implants? Wave your magic wand.

 

[01:32:02] Sarah Phillipe: I’m sure they’re working on those things as we speak just based on the uproar that’s going on with women right now with regards to breast implants and how they’ve contributed to poor health. So I know there are probably things in the work that we don’t know about, but one other thing that I do know is there is always the option of having a fat graft. There are a couple of different techniques that I know of. One is a fat flap technique basically where they take fat from underneath the armpit or potentially underneath the breast and rotate it around to make a breast out of it.

I think that’s a great option, however, with regards to breast cancer patients, I don’t know if that’s a safe option. We don’t have any long-term studies showing that that’s safe. And then there’s liposuction with fat transfer to the breasts. That also has its own wrists. It’s an aggressive surgery. The cannula that they use—if you’ve ever seen a video of liposuction, it’s pretty darn aggressive and it’s superficial layers that they’re working with. How much does that disrupt the lymphatic system, how much is that impacting your ability to detoxify and remove waste products, and how and how much is that impacting your ability to get nutrients to the cells?

I think that there are an upside and a downside to any option. Personally, I will say, I did have liposuction with fat transfer at the time of explant. Had I known now what I didn’t know then about lymphatic and how it really can impact the lymphatic system, I probably would have made a different decision. It didn’t really even stick for me, so my breasts are pretty much the same size they were as before I had my implants placed. That’s the other downside of it is that you don’t know if it’s going to stick because once you remove the blood supply of the fat, the fat dies. So whether or not it reestablishes the blood supply quickly enough in its new place is a whole nother story.

So I’ve just gotten to a place where I’ve learned to love and accept myself for how I was created, and see the beauty in that. So that’s my hope for most people so that we stop trying to alter our appearance and realizing that you are beautiful just the way you are, and you don’t need to alter your body to be beautiful.

 

[01:34:37] Ashley James: Yeah. Do the emotional work to get to the point where you love your body. You love every square inch of it. There’s no such thing as perfection. There’s so much healing to take place. Look at what a damaging society it is that as girls growing up, we are developing these belief systems about what we should look like. This is not a new discussion. If we look at fashion through history, we can see that we have been subjected to basically being cattle for men but also for society and for other women for the acceptance of society. How we appear externally is going to determine whether we’re accepted or not. This is of course the mind of a child, the mind of a little girl analyzing the world.

I believe that at our core, we have this need to be accepted because that’s part of how we survived, however long we’ve been here. Thousands upon thousands of years, we are a tribal people, and if you got exiled from the tribe, that was death. Being part of the tribe and being accepted and loved, and the first acceptance is being accepted into your family when you’re born. Feeling as part of a family, then part of a community, part of a school system, part of a church system, or whatever you are in growing up. If you are bullied, if you are judged, if you are pushed aside, if you’re feeling unworthy, unloved—all these things are processed in the mind of a girl growing up thinking that her physical appearance played a role in the rejection, and the hurt and the trauma from that.

If only I put on makeup, do my hair, and look as sexy as I can, and spend all of my waking moments up making myself look good and appear nice, then I will be accepted. This is what the media tells us. Really, the most beautiful thing about a woman is true confidence. You kind of get to that point, I’m 40 now. Somewhere around 35, 36, right after I gave birth I kind of went screw this. I am not playing this game. I’m living for me. I’m living for my loved ones. I’m not living to look good for anyone. I’ve lost shallow friends over it, great. I’ve made some deeper friends because of it.

I know that there are women who are in industries where they have to look good in order to get a raise, in order to get a promotion. This is the sad part about society, but we need to analyze how we grew up, analyze the world and realize that we internalized this idea that our looks need to be perfect in order to be loved and accepted, and then we do something like give ourselves implants or do plastic surgery causing further harm.

I love that right at the beginning of the show, you brought up that this is as much of a physical healing journey as it is in a mental and emotional one, and to work on all aspects of it.

 

[01:38:29] Sarah Phillipe: Right. Women today, young girls today, gosh, I would hate to have grown up in today’s world as a younger girl. When we were young we had magazines, billboards, commercials, movies, and things like that. But now, everywhere you look it’s in your face all over social media. Having a constant connection to social media the way people do today is a recipe for disaster for young girls. We’re in the midst of this body positivity movement and loving and accepting all different shapes and sizes. But at the same time, we have that message, we have the other side of a different message, which leads us to do all of the things that we do that leads us to have our eyebrows tattooed on our face and have eyelash extensions, get breast implants, get Botox, get lip injections, get cheek implants, chin implants, and butt implants. We’re trying to create this body or this look that doesn’t really exist in real life naturally.

 

[01:39:47] Ashley James: Right, and Hollywood and the media have done us no justice. I read an article recently, really interesting about young children. It was doing a cross-section of the young children who are questioning whether they were born in the right body. What I found interesting—and I really didn’t know this because I thought maybe just from what we see in the media—that it’s more skewed towards boys wanting to be girls. But in fact, the statistic was something crazy like closer to 90% of these children were girls who felt more like they were boys. They’re all in the questioning phase, but no wonder. No wonder In this world where we have to achieve this level of perfection.

If I was a girl now, I’d rather be a boy than have to live up to this idea of what it looks like to be a woman. It’s a total false, it’s made up, it’s not real. That’s not what it is to be a woman. But it just seems a lot safer, it just looks a lot easier to live life as a boy, right? No wonder there’s so much confusion. The way society is, the way the media is, the way social media is, we’re making it impossible for women to feel comfortable in their own skin, unless they do their own work. Unless they go within, they reject the external input, and they go with it and they love who they are on the inside, how they were born, and just be with themselves. Instead of trying to change who they are, just go within and do the emotional work.

I just thought that it was really interesting that this level of confusion like very young children. I see that it makes sense that we’re trying to falsify what it is to really be a woman. Not us but the media making it very confusing.

I love the work that you do. You’re exposing something that allows us to analyze our entire life and our body image, and then support ourselves on a level of detox, emotionally and physically. So tell us about how people can work with you. What does it look like to work with you as a practitioner? Obviously, you do it through Zoom or Skype. What does it look like to work with you?

 

[01:42:33] Sarah Phillipe: I’ve worked with women all over the world, and that’s really thanks to technology today. The women that I’ve worked with, it’s always been one-on-one. We work together for a minimum of six months. It really involves teaching women the tools that they need to heal themselves, and I think that’s really empowering because you can take that information and use it to help your family and keep your family healthy. So it’s not just about how it’s helping or impacting you, it’s about even the next generation. Teaching people how they should be living for a healthy body and a healthy life.

Once dysfunction has occurred, how to restore function. What things we need to look into, what things we should address and what order, how to go about it, and all of that. I’m teaching women these things. I’m not doing the work for them. I can give someone the best plan in the world, but if they can’t implement it or if they’re not able to implement it, then they’re not going to get well. I think education is the most valuable thing because they can use that information for the rest of their lives.

Soon, mid-year or so, probably around June, I’ll be shifting how I work with women and it’s going to be done in a group setting. We’ll be doing an online group program.

 

[01:44:02] Ashley James: That’s great.

 

[01:44:04] Sarah Phillipe: It’ll still be the same exact thing that I do now, it’ll just be in a group and a lot more connection and shared experience. I think that’ll be really valuable for people to go through things like this together. Because a lot of women who are going through this don’t feel like anyone really understands them. No one understands, no one gets it, people think I’m crazy, people don’t believe me. This is really great to connect with other women who are going through it at the same time that you are and be able to connect on that level and have that shared experience. Know that there are other people that you can talk to that get it and that understand what you’re going through. That’s what I’m working on putting together now. It’s basically my brain in an online program.

 

[01:44:48] Ashley James: I love it. Would people still be able to like do labs with you and get a consult?

 

[01:44:53] Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. The way I’m setting it up is we’ll have weekly or bi-weekly group calls and then there will be an option to have a one-on-one call scheduled with me.

 

[01:45:06] Ashley James: Great. Awesome. Is there anything else that people or women should know? I mean, men can get implants too. I was surprised that there are calf implants for men because they’ll work out in the gym forever but they don’t get that definition of their calf that they really wanted, and so they’ll get basically the silicone implants or something put in their calves to make them look more muscular. There would be a percentage of men that would be experiencing all these same issues but to male physiology. Is there anything else though that future students and clients should know when it comes to working with you about this program?

 

[01:45:51] Sarah Phillipe: One thing that I’m always telling potential clients is that you have to be mentally and emotionally mindset-wise prepared for the work. You have to be willing to do whatever it takes because usually, the people that come to me are the people who’ve gone from doctor to doctor to doctor, no one has been able to help them, and I’m kind of like their last resort. I ask a lot of my clients. It’s not always easy. There’s going to be bumps in the road. Healing is never a straight path, so you have to expect that it’s going to be challenging and it’s going to sometimes require that you step outside of your comfort zone because the way that we heal the body is not the way that you’ve been taught by modern medicine.

 

[01:46:47] Ashley James: And when you have those bumps in the road that’s feedback, that’s actually good. When you feel bad that’s good because you bring that to Sarah and then she goes, oh okay, then we need to make these tweaks. She understands, but you have to be vocal about how you’re feeling.

That’s something that happened to me. I was doing methylcobalamin injections back in December. My B12 plummeted and then my iron plummeted as a result during the pregnancy, and so I took some methylcobalamin injections. I was feeling great for the first three injections, I was amazing. It was like two a week. I was like, oh wow, I feel normal again. I feel good. This is great. 

And then about two or three weeks into the injections, they would make it so I was totally out for the whole day. I was in bed. I’m like, what is going on? I talked to my midwife who’s amazing. Absolutely amazing, she’s been my midwife for over 20 years. She looks at me and she goes well, Dr. Ben Lynch, and I’ve had him on the show by the way so I was just really impressed that she starts off by quoting him. “Well, Dr. Ben Lynch says that methylcobalamin shares the same pathways as insulin, and if you don’t need any more methylcobalamin, then it’s actually reducing your capacity for your body to use the insulin.” She’s going on and on about all the pathways and I’m looking at her like I should have you on the show. 

So she told me, okay, I want you to do this instead. I went from I felt good but then I started feeling really bad, then she adjusted it, and I felt even better. That’s the thing is you have to be in communication with your practitioner. The practitioner—a good one like Sarah—who knows what to do with that information.

So yes, it’s challenging, but it’s also then on the other side of the challenges is incredible rewards. But they have to be willing to put the work in. If you say stop eating gluten, they have to stop eating gluten. Or if you say you have to stop eating sugar, you have to stop drinking coffee, or whatever like some vices. You probably are going to have to give up some vices, but on the other side of it is how much do you want that amazing health, that vitality?

 

[01:48:55] Sarah Phillipe: Exactly, and I think that leads to another really important point is that people need to have a strong enough why. They really need to get in tune, in touch with their why. What is the reason that you want to get your health back? What’s the reason you want to work together? When someone says because I want to be healthy, that’s not a why. Why do you want to be healthy? What is the driving force that keeps you motivated to take the next right step each day in your healing journey? What do you want to be doing with your life that you are not able to currently do because of your symptoms, because of how much you’re struggling?

For most people, it’s a struggle just to get out of bed every day. All the other things that they want to be doing with their life they’re not doing.

 

[01:49:43] Ashley James: Yeah, and the guilt and the shame that builds up from that. I want to live a life free of guilt and shame and be able to get out of bed. You’re like, yeah. Okay, great. Now do everything I tell you to do.

 

[01:50:00] Sarah Phillipe: Yeah. So I think that’s important because it keeps you motivated even when things get hard.

 

[01:50:05] Ashley James: Absolutely. Sarah, it’s been such a pleasure having you on the show. Your website is reversingbreastimplantillness.com. Are there any resources you want to send us to or homework you’d like to leave us with to wrap up today’s interview?

 

[01:50:27] Sarah Phillipe: Well, I have one resource that I find really valuable. It’s something that I use with all of my clients to just assess where they’re at and assess progress. It’s my neurotoxic questionnaire. It’s divided up into four different categories, each of them looking at a different type of toxicity. The first section looks at heavy metals, the second section looks at symptoms connected to general chemical toxins, the third category looks at some connected biotoxins and mycotoxins. Those are toxins that come from living organisms like mold, bad bacteria, parasites, and things like that. And then the fourth category is looking at symptoms that are connected to a combination of heavy metals and general chemical toxins. That’s really helpful.

And then your total score you can look at where you fall into the range of mild, moderate, or severe neurotoxicity, which is important in determining whether it may be the thing that helps you make the decision to explant, or it may help you assess that even after explant you have some work to do. And then it helps you reassess progress as you go through your journey.

 

[01:51:44] Ashley James: How can they find that?

 

[01:51:46] Sarah Phillipe: I can share that link with you to share with your audience, or you can also find it on my website.

 

[01:51:55] Ashley James: Awesome. I’ll make sure the link is in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. Thank you Sarah for being on the show today. It’s been such a pleasure, and I’d love for you to come back when new exciting information comes out about breast implant illness. You’re welcome. I know you’ve got your ear to the ground. When really interesting stuff comes out that we all need to learn more about, please come back on the show.

 

[01:52:27] Sarah Phillipe: Of course, I’d be happy to, and thank you so much for having me, Ashley. It was such a pleasure and I really enjoyed our conversation.

 

 

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Recommended Reading by Sarah Phillipe

You Are the Placebo by Joe Dispenza

 

https://reversingbreastimplantillness.com

 

 

 

 

 

Feb 18, 2021

Become a Certified Health Coach Through IIN just like Ashley James! Get their Valentines Day Special! Experience a free sample of their program: learntruehealth.com/coach

Contact Dr. Vienna Lafrenz www.natural-therapeutics.com

 

The Windows to True Health: Iridology and Tongue Reading

https://www.learntruehealth.com/the-windows-to-true-health-iridology-and-tongue-reading

 

Highlights:

  • What is Iridology
  • What to look for in the eyes
  • Benefits of fasting
  • What to check in the tongue
  • Heal the child from childhood trauma to heal the adult

 

Dr. Vienna Lafrenz is a wealth of information. She’s back on the show to share even more information to improve our health. Dr. Vienna talks about looking and checking our eyes and tongue as an indicator of how healthy we are. She also shares how she was able to change the taste of food by collecting saliva on the seeds before sowing.

Intro:

Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. You’re going to love today’s interview. Dr. Vienna and I had such a great time going back and forth discussing some very interesting topics that you may not have learned about or dove into, or maybe you’ve heard of it but you really haven’t heard about it from this angle. So you’re going to learn more about how you can analyze your own body in order to help direct what you’re doing with your health. It’s all very, very, very interesting stuff.

As you’re listening to this interview and as you listen to all my interviews, if you think to yourself you would love to do what I do—you’d love to become a health coachplease check out IIN, the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. Just google IIN and give them a call. You can also go to learntruehealth.com/coach. That’s learntruehealth.com/coach, and there you get a free module from IIN that will allow you to see if it’s something that’s right for you.

Now, I’ve interviewed the founder of the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, and I’ve also interviewed their most recent CEO. Both interviews are fascinating and I’ve had actually several graduates on and several of their professors or teachers on as well. So you can go back and listen to all my interviews with those folks. You can always search my website, learntruehealth.com, to find episodes. 

What I have found fascinating about IIN is that about 50%—it was something like 54%, it was very close to 50%—of students that choose to do the year-long health coach training program have no intention of becoming a health coach but want to do it for their own personal growth. Going into it, I wanted to add this tool to my tool belt. I was already in the health coaching space, to begin with. I’ve been doing coaching for years, and I wanted to just continue to learn and grow as you as a listener continue to want to learn and grow that’s why you’re here. You’re here to listen, learn, and grow. 

What I found through the program is I did receive a lot of personal growth. All the work that you learn to do with your clients you do with yourself as well as you go through the program, so that was very gratifying. That was very rewarding. 

So if you’re someone who just really loves personal growth or you’ve just decided it’s the beginning of a new year and you go, I’m ready. I’m ready to take my life to the next level. I’m not satisfied with certain areas of my life. I want more joy and vitality in certain areas of my life, then you might want to just do the program for your own personal growth. You’ll be getting great tools in your tool belt for yourself, your communication skills. It’ll improve your relationships. It’ll improve your relationship with your own body, your health, your spirituality, and your level of joy and vitality. So go ahead, check it out. Go to learntruehealth.com/coach and just get the free module. See if it’s right for you.

Now, I did negotiate with IIN that all my listeners get a fantastic deal, and I know that in the month of February they were running a special. They might still be running it so you can give them a call and check that out. But they give us always—they always give the Learn True Health listeners—an extra special deal, so make sure you mention my name Ashley James and Learn True Health podcast to get that special deal. They do have a payment plan. So if you’re someone like me, I did the payment plan. It’s like a credit card payment basically every month.

What was really interesting is when I enrolled, the woman who helped me enroll who, by the way, when you call them, everyone that answers the phone has been through the program as a health coach themselves and can really help you better understand the program and there’s no pressure. It’s not like a sales pitch. It’s just people genuinely wanting to help. What I thought was really interesting is they encourage you. They said the best graduates pay it off completely before they have finished the program because, for those who choose to be a health coach and want to do this as a career or add to their career in the health space, it’s a year-long program. After the first six months, you begin to take on clients. You can actually have it all paid off by the time you have graduated and have a successful health coach business up and running.

Now, if you do want to do IIN, you heard about it through me but you have questions or you’d love a bit of mentorship, I’m absolutely here for you. Please feel free to give me an email, ashley@learntruehealth.com, or you can reach out to me on Facebook. We have our great Facebook group, the Learn True Health Facebook group. Reach out to me. I’d love to support you in your success. The world needs more health coaches right now. The world needs more holistic-minded practitioners right now. 

What’s great is IIN is a stepping stone. You can go with that. You can go into focusing on functional medicine in terms of hormones, fertility, more mental and emotional health. There are so many different avenues that you can go, sports medicine. There are health coaches now that are being hired by insurance companies, hospitals, clinics, and doctors’ offices, or you can work independently like me. So the sky’s the limit. That’s really exciting. So go check it out. IIN, google it, give them a call, see if it’s right for you. But definitely get the free module by going to learntruehealth.com/coach.

Excellent. Thank you so much for sharing these episodes with those you care about. I constantly hear from new listeners who say that their friends or family have turned them on to this. For new listeners, welcome. It’s very exciting.

Now we’re about to reach our—is it our four-year anniversary? Has that time just flown? I can’t believe it. We launched in March of 2016, and so we’re approaching our anniversary which is really exciting. We’ve helped millions of people through all the downloads. Help them to get better health, and that’s my goal is to help you to achieve the true health that you’re seeking. 

If practitioners or doctors have told you what you have is genetic, what you have is because of your age, because of your sex, or because of whatever, and you’ll always have it, you have to be on some drug for the rest of your life. If you’ve just been put in a box and told that you’ll always be sick, you’ll always feel this way, please find a new practitioner. Keep listening to this podcast.

I was told that I’d never have kids. I was told that I would be diabetic for the rest of my life. I was told that I’d be sick for the rest of my life, and I finally broke away from all those MDs who kept me in a box, who wanted to just keep me medicated, who didn’t have answers for my true health. I went and I sought natural medicine. Through my journey of health, I was able to recover all those diseases, and now this is why I do what I do is to help you do the same. 

So if you have any friends or family in your life who suffer needlessly and don’t want to suffer anymore, they want to put the work into their body to heal—even if they’ve been told they’ll always have that condition and they want to get to be as healthy as they can possibly be—keep listening, keep sharing. We’re going to get you there. Come join the Learn True Health Facebook group. It’s a very supportive community to help everyone achieve true health.

 

[00:07:30] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 456. I am so excited for today’s returning guest. We have Dr. Vienna Lafrenz on. Vienna, you were on episode 450, so not too long ago. Many listeners have contacted you to work with you, and you have had some really great experiences with our listeners. 

This is the common thing. So I’m letting all you guys know—all the listeners know—that I’ve had other guests reach out to me. I hear from many people, including Vienna, that the listeners of the Learn True Health podcast are just simply amazing, wonderful people. This is something I commonly hear. I’ve never heard a guest complain about when a listener contacting them, let’s just put it that way. We’re all in good company here.

Vienna, today we’re going to continue our discussion, which I’m really looking forward to because where we left it off last time was you were going to teach us how to assess our tongue. So we could look in the mirror and we can learn more about our health, and that’s really exciting. Also, get into a bit of your iridology. 

Since we had you on the show, your clinic—you work with people remotely around the world but you also have a physical clinic. You moved to Republic, Washington and you’re in a beautiful space there. So if anyone lives near the Okanagan Valley or in the Okanagan Valley, they can come to see you in person, which is really exciting. Congratulations on the move of your clinic. Natural-therapeutics.com is Vienna’s website.

Now, just to preface, for the listeners who didn’t hear episode 450, Vienna lives on a mountain with six feet of snow in Washington and she’s on satellite internet. So sometimes it may sound like we’re talking over each other, that’s because there is a delay on the line. So we’re not trying to talk over each other, but we’re going to do our best. We had a wonderful discussion last time, and we’re going to continue that great discussion this time. Welcome back to the show.

 

[00:09:46] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Thank you, and I do have to say, the listeners that you have on your show are so amazing. They all have the same interest at heart, and that is to get their best health possible in the best means there is. It’s wonderful. They implement things, they follow through them. It’s wonderful.

 

[00:10:06] Ashley James: Right. Now, for listeners who didn’t hear episode 450, I urge you to go back. I mean, you can listen to them out of order. You could listen to this one and then go back to 450. But I have to tell you, there is a story about a woman who had parasites crawling out of her body, literally running away from this woman’s body because the type of work that Vienna does makes parasites not even want to be in your body. So if you geek out on that kind of stuff like I do, you’re going to want to definitely work with Vienna and absolutely listen to episode 450 as well.

Today we might get into some really cool stuff, probably not as gross as that, although I’m not grossed out by it. I think it’s awesome because if there’s something you can do naturally that has no negative side effects, it makes parasites not want to live in your body anymore, sign me up. Before we talk about tongue assessment, which I think is so interesting, since we had you on the show, you worked with several of our listeners. And without obviously disclosing their identities or their names, are there any stories of success that you want to share with us?

 

[00:11:19] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Oh, absolutely. So I have several actually. One in particular that really stands out is a person who had 20 years’ worth of chronic pain—daily, daily, daily pain. And with that, of course, the cognitive issues with it because as we know, the brain shrinks with as many years of pain that there is, which is reversible of course. But this person was having a ton of brain fog, memory losses, and forgetting people’s names, even for getting phone numbers of relatives and such. But the chronic pain was the biggest thing where there was no joy anymore. Basically waking up every morning thinking okay, what am I going to deal with today?

As we started working on the biofeedback, identifying some of the areas where the pain was coming from, and truly finding the source of where the pain was coming from—not just the symptoms, just the side effects, or the emotional component, but truly finding the root cause of where the pain came from—was actually a nerve. As we did the biofeedback on nerves and worked on different pathways, neuropathies, and things like that, the pain went away to the point where this person was originally going to go in for surgery. But because of COVID and the fear of going into hospitals right now or whatever, or even just the availability of getting surgery right now, they were so far down the list that basically said okay let’s just do it one more time. Let’s try one more thing and really good results. That’s one big thing. Also got them back into dancing, which was really fun and phenomenal.

The second thing would be digestion. Digestion is a big thing with many of my clients. Not understanding why their body is not responding very well to different types of diets, cleanses, detoxification, or things like that. And then seeing it manifest in the skin. So I’ve had about three to four of your listeners call me about digestive issues, and again finding the root cause behind what is causing this digestive issue including allergies—unbeknownst allergies or symptomologies of allergies that are showing up, and being able to implement some of the food back into their diets that they had been craving and missing for so long. 

So really just finding out the digestive process and what’s going on, and of course, the constipation that goes with that. I had two that were maybe having a bowel movement once a week, which of course was a big concern for me. Once we got started, it’s now regular.

 

[00:14:16] Ashley James: Can you specify what regular is? Because people sometimes think once every three days is regular.

 

[00:14:21] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Yeah, exactly. And they say, oh, I’ve had this constitution my whole life. That is not regular. If you work in any kind of hospital or nursing home, if somebody doesn’t go for three days, that’s a sentinel event where there’s something wrong and they could land in the hospital. Regular means if you have three meals a day, you should be having about three bowel movements a day, and that has to do with the amount of transit time that it goes to the digestive process. 

From the mouth to the anus is the transit time. And so if it’s taking two days to digest food, there’s something going on within the digestive system. It could be anything related to a virus, bacteria, slow peristalsis of the intestines that could be leading to that, even just toxicity. It could be parasites. It could be a lot of different things. Yeah, enzymes.

 

[00:15:15] Ashley James: Not enough fiber, lack of minerals.

 

[00:15:19] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Yes, the types of foods, the chemicals that are in our foods. If there’s a lot of prefabricated foods that you’re eating where it’s not raw, live foods.

 

[00:15:32] Ashley James: I love that, pre-fabricated foods. I’ve never heard it put that way. That makes you think that there are microplastics in the food. It’s been pre-fabricated.

 

[00:15:46] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Well, isn’t there?

 

[00:15:47] Ashley James: Oh, absolutely. Just this week an article came out that said that for the first time ever, they’ve discovered microplastics in the placenta of babies. I mean, this is really sad. This is really sad. So the more factory food we eat, the more microplastics we’re consuming. There are microplastics in the ocean right now, so when we consume fish we’re consuming microplastics. Like you said, if you focus on foods that are whole, living, alive, like something I can identify—there’s an apple, there’s broccoli—you’re less likely to eat prefabricated foods with microplastics and chemicals. I love that saying. That’s great.

 

[00:16:33] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: They’re even finding plastic in white rice. It’s pretty crazy. So you just have to be really careful about the types of food you eat. If you think about it, we’re 99.99999% energy. So the foods that we consume should have a high level of energy in them.

 

[00:16:52] Ashley James: You just said something that I really, really want to touch on. You just said that we’re almost 100% energy. People go, well, over 70% water, what do you mean? Can you just elaborate? From the standpoint of physics, chemistry, and quantum physics, why are we almost 100% energy?

 

[00:17:14] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Well, think about it. So, we’re 99.99% energy and 0.001% matter. So what that means is what do you think transports the lymphatics, the blood, the water? That we’re 75% to 85% water—what do you think transports that? Energy. So the heart can conducts energy to the blood, to the water, to the lymphatic system. It gets it to move. The environment that we’re in, our whole auric being surrounding us is all energy. The physical part is really just the sack that we reside in, which is a meat suit comprised of skin, comprised of bone. But even that has energy in it as well.

When you think about it, the whole body is comprised of energy—from the organs, how they emit energy, how they respond to energy, as well as the blood, the lymphatics, the brain. The brain, yes, has this spongy type of gelatinous fibers within the skull, but it is also energy as well. It needs energy to conduct all the neurons, the fibers, and the hormones that are going from one organ to another. It’s all being done by energy. If you think about the meridians, the chakras, those are all energy vessels that that move the energy from one location to another and can be so influenced from the outside world to the inside world to the emotions to everything—that it’s all energy.

 

[00:18:58] Ashley James: I was really surprised when you did the quantum biofeedback machine on me remotely back in February, so 2020. I was sick as a dog, in bed, gasping for air, with a fever, sore throat. I mean, you could say all the symptoms of COVID, although, at the time, I know a lot of people in the Seattle area that all had these same symptoms but no one knew what COVID was. My Naturopath diagnosed me with strep throat, although I think I’m just one of those people that will always test positive for strep throat no matter what. I’m a strep carrier. It’s like, okay, but strep throat doesn’t normally do all these other things.

So I’m lying in bed and I’m really suffering. You did quantum biofeedback with me, and I felt it so much so that within the three-hour session—I fell asleep during the session, I woke up and my suffering had ended. The fever broke. I could breathe again. It took me a few days to recover. It was a really bad sickness I was going through, but I was on all kinds of supplements and stuff like that for my Naturopath. What I just noticed is how quickly things turned around.

Similar to my son going through the same energy work, I could feel it. I was in the same room as him because we did it in person with you and I could feel it. What’s described to me is that the mom always has an energetic cord-like umbilical cord attached to our children. As he was getting the treatment, I could feel it. The second you turned on the machine, I didn’t know when you had turned it on. I don’t know how this machine works. I’m just sitting in the room and all of a sudden I felt like I was being electrocuted but in a good way. I don’t know how to describe it any other way other than like my body was buzzing in a very odd way. I’m like, “Okay, is it on now?” And you’re, “Yup, the program’s running. We’re doing it.” And I can feel it.

That we can do something with energy remotely, with an intelligence and an intention for healing on such a deep and specific level is phenomenal. It’s just amazing. And since learning more about it from you, I’ve heard from a few other practitioners who are deep into this kind of work and they all have a very similar experience. 

We’re raised in society to believe that most people—it’s almost like atheism when it comes to the medical realm in terms of not believing that anything—if you can’t see it, if you can’t measure it in a lab with blood work, if you can’t see it on an ultrasound, an MRI, or blood work it doesn’t exist. MDs, if you go and tell them symptoms but they can’t find proof of those symptoms, a lot of times MDs will say you should go to a psychologist. It’s all in your head. I don’t know what’s wrong with you, but we can’t measure it, so it doesn’t exist. There’s this entire realm that’s missing.

Whether you get into spirituality, religion, or energy work, we can’t ignore the fact that we are almost 100% made up of energy and thus we would be affected by energy. To bring it back to your point—which is what you were saying is we’re made up of almost 100% energy—of course, the foods we eat would not just only affect our physical health, of course, they’d affect our energetic health as well. The energy transfers—the heart does, the brain does—because when we eat foods that are alive, that have energy in it as opposed to prefabricated factory foods, which are very low-frequency foods, it just makes so much sense, right?

So when we’re eating, we’re consuming energy. But more than just calories, we’re consuming the living energy of that plant, which is actually measurable. I’ve had episodes about that where there are scientists that can measure the frequency of plants versus dead meat, for example, and that we receive a lot more frequency and energy from plants. 

So this idea that we can raise our vibration, that we can heal digestion, that we can heal emotional health and physical health by focusing on energy and frequency very specifically is in our diet but also with the therapies that you provide, it’s phenomenal, and this is something that’s so missing from the medical world because the medical world is blind to it. That’s really sad, but this is why we’re listening to you and this is why we’re here learning about this work, so I’m really excited.

If I sound out of breath, it’s because the baby is pushing on my diaphragm right now. I feel like I’m just running a marathon just talking. I’m 31 weeks pregnant and the baby has taken up the entire breadth of my diaphragm. I apologize if I sound out of breath, but I’m quite happy with the baby kicking my diaphragm at the moment.

How did you help? So was there was a listener who was having digestive problems and only having a bowel movement once a week, which is really scary. What happened after they worked with you?

 

[00:24:54] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Okay, one of the first things we always ask during our sessions is okay, tell me about your bowel movements, how are they looking? And of course, many are a little skeptical at first and not really open to talking about that as openly as I am. And then after a while, they get to be very open about it because now they can have something to look forward to. When I see that they started having bowel movements on a regular basis meaning at least first thing in the morning they may be having one or two bowel movements.

So this person went from one bowel movement a week to now three bowel movements in a day and takes the time to really look at it and say oh, wow, look at the color. Look at the texture, that it doesn’t sink. It’s right in the center. It’s one whole form. I mean, they really break it down for me, which is nice. That tells me that they’re integrating the information that they’re learning, and they actually see the value of their digestive process and how important it is to tell you exactly what’s going on based on how it looks. So that’s been fascinating.

Just the fact that they’re realizing that they don’t have to wait a week to have a bowel movement, that they’re having one every day, and then how good they feel. They feel lighter, they feel more energetic, they’re not as depleted. That’s the amazing part. But to go back to when you were talking about how you felt as a parent as the receiver while I was working on your son is one thing that also helps with the quantum biofeedback is the energy of the person receiving it—how open they are.

I have huge results with people who are empathic, that are very open to energy, that are very receptive to it, that also understand it. If you have somebody that’s very closed to situations, to information, very guarded, they may not do as well until they actually start to feel it. But there’s also an in vitro aspect of it to where as a mother, you could be a surrogate for your son while I’m working on him because of that perinatal connection that you make during the time that he was in your womb. That connection will never go away as I’m sure you’ve already seen that already. That’s why you responded so well is that you are an energetic person, an energetic being, and so your body just craves energy healing, which is exactly what this biofeedback does.

 

[00:27:31] Ashley James: I was really skeptical. I like to say on my show I’m the most open-minded skeptic. I guess I just don’t want to be sold snake oil. Does that make sense? But I also don’t want to close myself off from the amazing possibilities out there because, in my heart, I’ve always believed that our Creator—in whatever way you see God—is this amazing scientist. 

I think science is our way of understanding God better because when you look at, when you really, really, really study, for example, single-cell organisms. Just really go and look at YouTube videos of single-cell protozoa swimming, and there are some videos where the microscopes go to the point where you can see the mechanics because these things are almost see-through. You could see the mechanics of their tails, and it’s like a machine. It’s an intricate complex machine, and yet it’s a single-cell organism that can propel itself through fluid and respond to stimulus. How in the world does this incredibly complex, intricate, and beautiful single-cell life form just happen? Because chemicals and explosions occurred billions of years ago. It’s just this idea. So for me, it’s never sat well this idea that everything happened randomly. I really feel that there’s so much to this world we don’t even understand.

The fact that we can use energy work to heal, and you can use it on children who don’t understand. My son didn’t know what was going on, so you can’t call it a placebo effect when he had results. You can’t call it a placebo effect when homeopathy helps newborn babies and pets. How is that a placebo effect? The reason why I bring up homeopathy is it sort of goes in the same category as energy medicine because it’s not molecular medicine, it’s energy medicine.

So we have these great results, and I had a two-part interview on frequency-specific microcurrent. That one is a good interview to go listen to. I asked the woman my first question and an hour later I get to ask her my second. It was the most amazing first hour because it was just her telling the story, which will blow your mind, and it’s all about how her very, very specific form of energy healing using frequency specific microcurrent, which is a machine you can find in a lot of physical therapy clinics. I’m sure you’ve worked with this as an occupational therapist, but done in a specific way. 

When you’ve changed the frequencies. For example, when someone has nerve damage, you change the frequencies and it will stimulate the body to heal that nerve really fast, like super, super, super fast to the point where while people are on the table, they’ll stop having pain or Parkinson’s people will stop shaking. I mean, just really, really cool results. It’s energy and it’s frequency.

Yes, our bodies can heal when we figure out exactly what they need on an energy and frequency level. This is what’s so exciting is that so many people are walking around looking for the drug they need, looking for maybe the diet they need or the drug they need, and yet there’s this entire world that’s really, 90% of the healing is all these different forms of energy and frequency healing and medicine. We’re stuck only being sold on the 10% drug-based, physical-based medicine.

 

[00:31:40] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: See, if we took the time that we take in taking the drugs or the prescriptions, going to the doctors, getting them refilled, all that kind of stuff into the food preparation. What I mean by that is for the people like out here in Eastern Washington, everybody plants their own garden, we harvest our own food, and all that kind of stuff. If we have excess, we give it to people, we exchange. It’s about surviving out here, livelihood. So everybody plants their own gardens.

One thing we did this year that was quite different than the past was as we were cultivating our seeds and we were planting them into the garden, we would put the seed in our mouth and collect the saliva on the seed, and then we would plant that seed. So then what happens is our DNA is now going into that seed, and then the food is then now grown more nutritiously, more specific to what our innate needs are based on the saliva that was put on that seed. What we found was when we grew our garden, we had the most plentiful garden you wouldn’t believe. The cucumbers, the zucchini, the tomatoes, the peppers, and our lettuces were just amazing and quite nutritious. It had different flavors to them. My husband’s would taste a little different than mine. It was really, really interesting the difference in that.

You can actually have some fun with how you can influence the quality of your food, even the preparation that takes place. If you go to a restaurant, for example, and you see the cook in the back that’s cooking. He’s angry, he’s yelling at everybody, and all of that, I don’t think I’d want to eat that food because there’s a lot of anger, which is an emotion, which is energy put in that food. I’d much rather take it from somebody who’s singing in the background, who’s singing in the kitchen and having a wonderful day at work, and putting all that love into that food as it’s being prepared. 

My husband does the same thing. When he cooks a meal, he puts this beautiful music on in the background. He puts some loving energy into each stroke of the knife or whatever he’s doing to make the food much more energetically loving to ourselves as we eat it. The environment is everything. But the food just tastes better when you put love in it. I’m sure you know that because you put a lot of love into your food.

 

[00:34:16] Ashley James: One of my favorite books as a young adult, as a teenager was Como para agua chocolate, which is Like Water for Chocolate. The movie didn’t do it justice, it’s a beautiful book. The author went on to write a sci-fi novel, which is even better, but it’s a sci-fi novel about healing, about emotional healing. About a society that when you’re sent to prison, they believe that you commit a crime because you really weren’t surrounded with enough love and understanding. The prison they send you to is a place where people surround you and give you love and understanding until you process why you did that crime and you really heal on an emotional level, and then you grieve for the victims. It’s very interesting. I don’t remember the name of that book, but a really interesting thing to get into.

But one thing about Como para agua chocolate is that this woman, when she would cry, her tears would go into the food and then everyone at the table would cry. When she was in love and her sweat fell into the food because it was hot and she was in love, all of a sudden, everyone was lusty and in love. It painted this picture in my mind as a young teenager about how the mood that we’re in can be contagious. And also, when you’re feeding people, there’s that energy exchange there that occurs.

Now, when you said that you held the seeds in your mouth, you’re not saying your literal DNA went into the literal DNA of the lettuce, but you’re saying your energy, the energetic DNA affected the lettuce on an energetic level, right? Because it’s not like that lettuce is now part human.

 

[00:35:58] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: No, no, no, no, no. Thank you for clarifying that. It’s similar to like—I think you had Viome on where they take a sample of your feces and then they make vitamins based on what your excrement is. So the same thing goes. The theory that I’ve formulated in my brain is that when you take the seed, then you stick it in your mouth, and your digestive enzymes from your saliva get onto that seed, then when you plant it in the earth the nutritious needs that your body is needing—whatever you’re lacking—will then grow into that vegetable. 

We found that between the ones that were done by my husband and myself, it was the same seed but he had a different color than mine, it grew differently, or things like that. This is a little experiment that we did. We saw that—it was the same from the same batch of seeds in the package—produced a different vegetable—vibrancy, color, consistency.

 

[00:37:12] Ashley James: It’s so cool. I want to know what influenced your desire to do this experiment.

 

[00:37:18] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Well, when you think about how do you best describe how does biofeedback works with taking a saliva sample, hair sample, or something like that? Well, how else can you show the influence that could have? The digestive enzymes, the saliva, your own characteristics, your own constitution, how can that affect things? So I thought, well, what better way than to see how will my DNA, my saliva influence a growing thing? Now, I’m not going to swap saliva with my dog just to see if it would influence my dog. So I thought what better way than take an inanimate object that we think of as inanimate—this seed—then place it in the mouth, then plant it, and see what would make a difference.

When you’re sitting around a table talking with friends and then this idea comes up, it’s like, hey, I bet that would have an influence so we just tried. Lo and behold we saw a difference.

 

[00:38:20] Ashley James: They say kissing your baby and also giving a bit of your saliva to the baby, or kissing their cheek—I don’t know if it’s pheromones. I have actually no idea why it does this, but that changes breast milk. Also, their saliva on the nipple of the mother changes the breast milk will change the immune cells that the breast milk is making for the baby. It’s a biofeedback loop between the baby and the mother so that the mother’s body knows how to formulate breast milk to support the immunity of the baby at the time. I thought that was really interesting.

Now, the experiment I’d like you guys to do this year is I want you to do a batch where you don’t hold the seeds in your mouth. There needs to be a control. The lettuce over here just put in the ground, don’t do anything with it right, and then the lettuce over here is the one the seed you held in your mouth, maybe did a prayer, do some love to it, and your husband does the same, and then you guys compare. Because it’s all going to be in the same sunlight, same soil, all come from the same seed packet. It’d be interesting to see if you notice a really significant difference from the plant that received your energy signature before planting it versus the one that received nothing.

 

[00:40:01] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Well, we actually did do that because we truly did want to make it an experiment. That’s what was so amazing for us why we were able to see such a huge difference in the crop was the one that we didn’t put any of our salivae on, it was lifeless almost. The color was different. It wasn’t as vibrant. We didn’t have as much of a harvest from it either. Once we would clip, it didn’t always come back as far as like in some of the lettuces and stuff, and also the reseeding of it. We didn’t see huge pollination. We didn’t see a lot of the seeds going to pollination. The yield was much smaller with those that we did not put our saliva on.

 

[00:40:56] Ashley James: That’s interesting.

 

[00:40:58] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Now, I’d be interested though to see how our food would influence other people that ate our food. Think about that. I mean, I’m not saying that our DNA is going to change theirs. This is another example and this kind of leads into the iridology piece is that when animals like cats, for example, I have two mama cats right now who are both producing little kittens. When one mama cat is feeding the other mama cat’s kittens, we noticed that the color of their iris would change.

 

[00:41:34] Ashley James: What?

 

[00:41:36] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Yes, and what I mean by that is not that the background color, which is the main color, but speckles in the eyes would show up, or we’d see little lacunae that would show up in the iris that wasn’t there before. That’s when they start picking up the other mother’s genetic characteristics. It’s pretty cool the way you can see that happen. 

You can also see if there’s something wrong with the animal-based on where color changes occur in the eye. If you start to see more dots or you see lines starting to appear—white lines or things like that—that’ll tell you that there’s inflammation in a particular area so let’s check that area out. It will tell you whether they’ve got some problems with their liver. Same thing with humans.

Animals have the same characteristics that humans do. Their eyes change when they have an injury. That’s actually how it came about was a little boy that was 11 years old found an owl that had broken its leg. He saw the there were some color changes in the eye of the owl as it was healing. It was kind of fascinating to see that happen. I see the same thing in my dog. I look at my dog’s eyes and I can say, oh yeah, she’s got some issues going on. We need to work on that. It’s pretty cool.

 

[00:42:57] Ashley James: When you look at your clients when they’re with you in person do you see a big difference from the beginning of a session to the end of the session, or is that something that changes more gradually over time?

 

[00:43:11] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: It doesn’t always happen that quickly. It’s usually gradual over time, and it depends on what it is that we’re working on. I’ve kind of switched my focus because usually when I’m talking to people and I’m talking to them live, face to face, I look at their tongue a lot because the tongue will tell me things. But now I’m also starting to look at the eye even more, and it really depends on the type of light I have to see the eye to see if I can actually see the little spots or the little lines in the eye that tell me something, or the rings, or even just discolorations that are occurring. Or if they’ve got some bloodshot eyes, that’ll tell me a little bit of what’s going on in the sclera.

People have caught on to the fact that I look at their tongue, and so now they kind of block their mouth when I’m talking to them. Well, now they have to block their eyes if they want me to not look at their eyes to tell them what’s going on. But I can look at their eye and say, are you having some digestive issues? They’ll say, well, yeah. How’d you know? Oh, you got this little speck here that’s telling me that you’ve got some digestive issues. Looks like you might have a little bit of heavy metal going because of these little rings that are showing up or things like that. It’s pretty cool.

 

[00:44:19] Ashley James: Now, iridology—I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t it a fairly old, widely studied, and it’s practical but it’s repeatable. It’s a science.

 

[00:44:41] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: It is.

 

[00:44:41] Ashley James: How old is it? For those who’ve never heard of iridology, which is being able to basically to look in the different aspects of someone’s eye and see what organs and what systems need help. Can you tell us the history of it?

 

[00:45:00] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Well, yeah. It goes way back to the 1800s even. Even way before then, they even have pictures of drawings within cave dwellings and stuff like that of the eye. But back in the 1800s, the one that I was referring to earlier Dr. Von Peczely I believe was his name, was the 11-year-old boy that found the owl that had a marking on the owl’s eye that was depicted kind of by where the leg is, which is in the lower part of the eye. As the bird was starting to heal, he started noticing the change in the eye and the color of the eye change.

I don’t know if that was the main reason why he went back to medical school, but he went to medical school and became a doctor. As he started seeing more and more of his clients and more and more of his patients, he started seeing that the eyes were reflecting what was going on in the body. As the body was healing, the eye was healing. So he could actually see that significant change.

Now, whether it can change from the beginning of a session to an end of a session, typically not because basically, it depends on if it’s a congenital thing because you can actually see things that you’ve inherited from your parents, or if it’s something that is an acute, subacute, or chronic, or even a degenerative issue. But the beautiful thing it’s similar to biofeedback in that it can predict. It may not be something that you have right now, but it’s a precursor, so it’s leading up to it. 

Just like biofeedback identifies things that are symptomatologies and energies that are leading to dis-ease, the same thing goes with the eyes is that it leads to dis-ease as well. It’s kind of like here’s something that’s coming on, and if you don’t do something about it now, this could end up being something that you’re going to have to deal with later that will take the quality of your life away. That was the first thing, but then there was Dr. Jensen who is an American iridologist who really brought the science and the use of it in the homes. He made it so that people would understand it. 

And then there’s also another physician out there, Verghis, who actually put the behavior. So he made behavior iridology. What are some of the emotions that show up, the personalities that are showing up within the eyes? You can see if somebody’s an extrovert versus an introvert based on the amount of fibers that are showing up. You can tell if they’re a right-brain or left-brain person by the amount of activity in one eye versus the other. It’s really cool, so it helps you understand. If you’re interviewing somebody for a job, you can actually look at their eyes and say, is this somebody who is more of a creator person or more of a left-brained person that’s more focused on let’s just get the task done. You can actually hire somebody based on where their brain is activating and working the most.

 

[00:48:17] Ashley James: That’s really fascinating.

 

[00:48:18] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: It’s quite fascinating.

 

[00:48:20] Ashley James: So I’m a master practitioner and trainer of neuro-linguistic programming, and as part of that, we really study how to understand people’s personalities in a passive way. Because if one were to choose to—let’s say they are a headhunter for Microsoft, for example. They’re the recruiter for Microsoft. It’s illegal to give personality tests in America and in several other countries. There are certain countries where it’s not illegal. I’m sure it’s a lot easier to do hiring in those countries, but in the United States, you’re not allowed to do a personality test because it could be considered discriminatory. 

I mean, I’m not going to discriminate against an introvert or an extrovert. It’s like if you’re hiring an accountant that’s going to be in the basement never surrounded by anyone else, you really want to hire an introvert. They’re going to be a lot more focused and happy there. You don’t want to hire an extrovert accountant. They’re going to be miserable. So there are just certain personality traits that are best if you understand the job you’re hiring for it’s best. Or if you’re dating. If you’re examining potential mates, even meeting new friends, or hiring a babysitter or a nanny—certain things you want to know about that person. 

In neuro-linguistic programming, we learn how to read people, gain rapport with them and read people, not in a malicious way at all. Although, Hollywood loves to paint the picture of NLP in a very malicious way because that sells movies, TV shows, or whatever. But neuro-linguistic programming is simply becoming so observant that you can understand more about human behavior and all the signs are right there for everyone to read. If you can look into someone’s eyes and you study your iridology, you have the ability to understand their health, also their emotional health, and also their behavioral tendencies. I think that is really powerful. 

This is something that would interest me. For example, being a mom, and again I saw studies recently, some articles published about how they see the differences in brain patterns that women actually see a larger spectrum of color than men do. That is they believe because we can detect micro changes in the vasculature of our children such that we will see if they’re developing a fever if they’re developing a flush. The capillaries around their cheeks, are they more white, are they more dark? What’s going on? That is all playing a role in telling us are they in a state of stress, are they going into a sickness? We have to look at our children all the time and judge, especially young ones who can’t talk to us. 

I don’t know why the scientists found out that moms can do it more than dads because I mean, all power to the stay-at-home dads, right? But for whatever reason, we have been designed to be able to see, adapted, or grew in a way to be able to see and detect even further more minute changes in the nuances of how the body is expressing itself. So reading eyes is something that I think moms who are like crunchy moms who are into holistic health would be really excited to study more about. And then also the tongue, and I really want to get into talking about the tongue too. It’s kind of hard to teach people iridology through an audio podcast, but maybe you could direct us to resources that the layperson could study.

 

[00:52:31] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Absolutely. For example, when you were talking about this whole connection with the child and things like that, why do you think that they say that moms have eyes in the back of their heads? Well, they do.

 

[00:52:45] Ashley James: I have freaked my son out so many times. My son’s almost six. Now, he was an early talker. When he was 18 months old he knew the alphabet backward and forwards. We would just do fun games with the alphabet, he picked it up, and he could say really complex words. He could say avocado before he was two. By the time he was two, he was talking full sentences. He’s always been really communicative, which makes sense given who his mom is. And also, we talk to him all the time. We talk to our son all the time like an adult. We don’t do baby talk. We talk to him all the time, engage with him all the time, and he’s very communicative.

So at a really young age, I’ll be in the kitchen, our son will be in the living room, my back is turned to him, and I’ll say, “Stop doing that. You know you’re not allowed to do that.” He’s like, “How did you know?”

 

[00:53:47] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Right. If you think about that, so you do actually have an eye on the back of your head because when you think about where the pineal gland is actually located in the brain. It is actually towards the back of the brain, and that is where your sense of intuition is. That’s also where all the hormones, the hypothalamus, the thalamus, and all that are coming through. So basically, I mean, not only are we emotional and hormonal beings but we’re also seers and feelers and key into that energy. That’s why that sense of intuition is so strong. When you feel somebody approach your child you say stranger danger, that this is not a good person. That was because we were designed that way. That’s one of the beautiful things about the differences between men and women is we were given that that intuition.

So, of course, we have the eyes in the back of our heads for that reason. That pineal gland is actively firing [inaudible 00:54:43] stranger danger, do not approach, stay away from my child kind of thing, and me as well.

But there are certain things that you can actually look for in the eye that can give you an idea of some things that would just be something to follow up with. For example, if you see rings in the eyes meaning circular rings on the outer of the iris towards where the sclera is, if you see a white ring around that, that typically, first of all, is one of the signs of old age. You’ll see that in some of the elderly, but it’s also circulation. So kind of looking at that. That’s also a condition of the skin. The aging of the skin is part of the aging process. Maybe too much sun, not enough hydration, that kind of thing. It’s all about melanin as well.

But what most people don’t realize is there are truly only two-colored eyes—there’s brown and there’s blue. I have green eyes so I’m like wait a minute, where do I fall in that. Well, there is a mixed color, and that’s called a biliary. That’s where the greens and the hazel’s come in. Typically, the hazel would be like a brown, but it has some discoloration around the pupil, which could be toxins, it could be genetic things that have come in, it could be that you have a very strong constitution. If you see some strings in the eyes that are emanating from the pupil, that’s usually your constitution. They liken it to different types of fabric. 

For example, the strongest constitution person will look like satin, meaning that the color of the pupil is very tightly woven. The striations coming from the pupil are very tight, so they have a very strong constitution meaning their digestion is going to be very strong, that their body’s going to be strong, everything’s going to be strong. Then if they have a very loose-looking pupil, meaning that they’ve got openings and stuff like that, not only does that mean—and the previous person would be more of an introvert. If you think about that type woven, very tight with their time, tight with personality, things like that. They’d be more of an introvert. 

Whereas the one with the eyes that have a lot of light coming in them, they have open areas that we call lacuna that make them look very like a flower. Those are very extroverted people that also are very much emotional type. They tend to be more of a right-side brain dominant. They tend to be more spontaneous and creative, but you also want to see if there are color changes within the color. So if you have a blue eye but then you have some brown specks in it, typically that means that there’s a psora, which means there are some toxins and stuff going on within that area.

So there are certain things that you can look for in the eye that might change as a result of things. If you hurt your ankle, you’re going to see a change in the bottom of your eye where the ankle is located, and you might actually see a speck. That spec might show that the body is trying to heal. You can actually see long-term phase versus acute. You can tell based on the color if it is an acute episode and if it’s going to convert it to long-term. You can actually stop it at the acute level before it even goes chronic. That’s the thing that I love the most about this is to be able to detect. It’s like a timescape. You can see, okay, you’re in the acute phase of this. If you change this now, it does not have to be a chronic disease later. That’s what I love the most.

If you see some white colors, let’s say you have a blue eye and you have some white striations in there, oftentimes that may mean there’s a kidney imbalance or there’s too much acid. It’s in the acute stage of the disease. It could also mean that you have a very hard life that we need to look at the psychological aspects of it. They may over rationalize things. They may have a hard time forgiving.

Yellow tends to mean that there is an adrenal imbalance. Oftentimes, the emotion associated with that would be fear, anger, or worry. So of course, if you think about that, it does influence the adrenals.

If there’s a bright orange color to it—so you can see some of that sometimes in the hazel eyes the bright orange—oftentimes that’s a pancreas imbalance. You’ll see that a lot with people who have diabetes, and oftentimes it’s a lack of grieving. They haven’t had a chance to grieve for something, whether it’s grieving for their loss of independence in their life, their ability to enjoy the food that they’ve wanted to, or even grieving of lifestyle, people who have left, or even childhood issues.

If you see dark orange, oftentimes, that would be a pancreas or gallbladder issue, or sometimes there’s something going on with the gallbladder. If you can actually catch this in advance, then you might be able to save your gallbladder at some point because it’s an early indication of something going. Usually, that’s a long-standing lack of joy that somebody’s had. So you might see some of this in some of your friends when you see some of these emotions showing up, and then you see some of the conditions like with traditional Chinese medicine, typically if I see something going with the pancreas and the gallbladder, I’ll also see hip issues or knee issues going on as well because it goes right along that gallbladder, or they might have headaches as well.

Then if there are reddish-brown specks in there, that could be a spleen or blood weakness. Typically you’ll see that in the tongue as well, and I can explain that when we go into that. But that’s typically irritability or depression that the person is having some issues with.

And then if you see some light or dark brown specks in there, that’s usually a liver imbalance and a sign of chronic disease. You can see the color spectrum. White, they’re in the acute phase. It’s more of a lymphatic thing. As the color gets deeper and deeper into the texture, then that’s the progression of the disease process. You can also just look at your own eyes and see some of those things as an indicator.

 

[01:01:14] Ashley James: The location matters though, right? Like you said, the lower part of the eye was the leg of the owl, for example. So you’re seeing these different colors in the eye, and the location also plays a role. I think studying it would be fascinating as a layperson, but I also think going to an iridologist and one that has been trained both in the physical but also the personality and the emotional to get a full sort of reading of what’s going on. I think that’d be a lot of fun. 

And then doing the work like you said if, for example, heavy metals come up. I spent the last five years doing heavy metal detox and really noticing a huge difference in my labs. All of my labs improved, my liver improved, my blood sugar improved—all the functions of my body—my hormones improved. Everything improved because I was doing that, and of course eating an even healthier diet because I can’t say I was eating unhealthy before that. I’ve been pretty consistently eating as healthy as possible for the last 10 years. But in the last five, I’ve been really focusing on everything I can do to support the body and removing heavy metals. 

Man, it would have been really interesting to get sort of a camera like a really close-up camera shot of my eyes five years ago versus now to see. I know I made these changes, but then to also have that confirmation to see that the changes took place over time in my eyes. That would be neat to go maybe once a year or something and get a picture of your eye and then see those changes as you do the work.

 

[01:03:05] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Oh yeah. You can see a change within a month. You can actually see it within a couple of days. So for example, I did a fun thing. The other piece of it is I’ve been having some of my clients who I’ve been seeing for biofeedback sending me pictures of their eyes, and they’ve been really, really good about that in that they can then send me an email of their eye, and they have to specify right and left—open that eyeball is as high as they can.

So typically, I’ll have them keep their eyeball open with their fingers while their spouse or whoever takes a picture of it, and then that way I can get a really good picture, of course with the flash off. so there’s no glare coming from it and making sure you’re not getting a glare from windows. But then I can actually blow that up and really look at it and then get a really good idea. There are over 90 areas of the eye that we look at. That’s why it’s very important you do go to an iridologist for that.

The beautiful thing is that you can actually see the changes from one aspect to another. So for example, before each full moon, I do a fast—three to four days before a fast and even before the new moon. So I’m usually doing a fast two times a month. So I’ll do my fast so. Before I do my fast I’ll do a picture of my eye and I’ll analyze it and take a look at it. And then I’ll do my fast and then after my fast I’ll look at that and go wow, look at that. You can actually see a difference within that time frame—that four days. You can see a difference in the eyes—the clarity, the color. 

You might have had some people say like for me, I can be green eyes one day and blue eyes another day. Sometimes it depends on the color I wear, it sometimes depends on the mood I’m in. It’s kind of like I got motoring eyes or something like that. They could turn the little color so the yellow will come out more. But my eyes, when you look in the camera, are actually blue—a very pretty blue. But when you truly look at it with the naked eye they’re green, and that is because of the coloration that I have around the pupil.

 

[01:05:09] Ashley James: My dad was the same way. My dad had these hazel eyes that could be green, they could be blue, they could be brown. It was almost like golden brown, and they would change. I mean, the most change I’ve ever seen in anyone’s eyes my dad had that, and I thought that was fascinating, considering my mom was just pretty much always blue. I was like, what’s up with my dad? I thought that was really interesting.

Now, I love fasting. I’ve had several episodes on fasting, and some people who’ve never heard of therapeutic fasting think you’re crazy. Why wouldn’t you want to eat when you have access to perfectly good food? Episode 230 of my podcast, so I recommend listeners go back and check that out. Episode 230 talks about water-only fasting on a therapeutic level, and the results that you can get. 

Back in 2012, a Japanese doctor discovered that the body goes through on day three of a water-only fast. It’s somewhere around hour 30 it kind of ramps up. The body digests pathological tissue, cancer—and I’m not saying this is a cure for cancer, although it has been documented and this is something that we talked about in episode 230. But the body will digest scar tissue to the point where people have seen scars go away during long fasts. Fibrous tissue, so women with fibroids, women with very thick breast tissue, women with fibroids around their uterus or their ovaries, they’ve seen a significant improvement. 

It’s just fascinating because if you weren’t into health, you would probably never go—unless you had to for a colonoscopy or something—skip a meal, right? And yet, we are designed, we have a self-cleaning mechanism. It’s like you put your oven on the self-clean setting. Even my washing machine has a self-clean setting, and I just thought that was so funny our body has a self-cleaning setting. That if we don’t eat for three to five days, our body goes through this huge cycle of self-cleaning and breaking down pathological tissue. That is absolutely amazing. There are so many health benefits.

So you fast twice a month. Why do you choose to fast around the new moon and the full moon? What is your reasoning behind choosing the amount of days, like you said, about four days? Why do you choose the amount of time and the timing?

 

[01:07:50] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: The number of days was really random—three to four days. First of all, I always like the number three, so that’s one of the main reasons. But I always choose the lunar cycle because that’s when many things are more active in the body. That’s when a lot of things will actually start to show up. For example, that’s when parasites are much more active in the bodies during a lunar cycle. So if I’m wanting to clean my body out of any kind of parasites that may be remaining because we do all have parasites, it’s just how active are they. Then what better time than the lunar cycle? So why not use mother earth to help us heal? 

So the more in tune that we get to all of these different frequencies and vibrations of the world, of the earth, then our body responds so much better to it. Why not do these drastic changes during lunar cycles and during these full moon episodes because that’s when your body’s going to be much more receptive to it. And I’ve noticed the difference between a fast in between, during a full or a new moon, and it just heightens everything. It heightens the meditations, it heightens the interaction that you have with the world, your senses become much more interactive. When you’re cleaning your body out, then it opens up every sensory system within your body to become much more viable, much more vital. That fast during that time just speeds everything up. My meditations get deeper, everything gets deeper.

 

[01:09:26] Ashley James: Very cool.

 

[01:09:27] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: So why not do a fast during that time?

 

[01:09:30] Ashley James: What’s really neat about even just a three to four-day fast, and the fact that you do it twice a month is fantastic. What’s really interesting is that people are often afraid that it lowers the metabolism, which slows down the metabolism. What studies have shown—they’ve repeated these studies—is that when we lower the caloric intake, let’s say you decided to go on a 1,200 calorie a day diet, and then you did that for three months, and then you went back to eating 2,000 calories, you would start to gain weight from the 2,000 calorie diet. 

Let’s say you always ate 2,000 calories and you were always consistently the same weight. If you lowered your caloric intake significantly like to 1,500 or 1,200 calories, and then went back to eating 2,000 calories, which was seemingly healthy for you for years, all of a sudden now you’re gaining weight. What they find is that by eating a lower calorie diet, our metabolism slows. The body goes into a starvation mode and goes, okay, we’re in famine now. We need to conserve energy, and so we’re going to convert everything to fat to survive. We’re going to really sluggish slow it all down, make less heat. 

This kind of flies in the face of all the diets out there. All the mainstream diets tell us to eat less. That creates more customers for more diet books because now we are in this perpetual cycle of, and I’ve been on over 30 diets in my life and I know. The more dieting you do, even healthy ones like the Mediterranean diet, so healthy. The Zone diet, and the doctors, all this stuff. All those diets out there cause the metabolism to slow.

Now, everyone gets results in their first month. You shift your way of eating and oh, I lost 15 pounds. Well good. Some of that was water weight from removing inflammation because maybe you stopped eating sugar, you stopped eating junk food, fast food, or whatever. You’ve changed your lifestyle. But in the long term, it slows the metabolism, which is really bad so that you can’t actually eat a healthful diet without the body going into fat-storing mode.

Now fasting—and I’m not talking about intermittent fasting. Intermittent fasting is something different. The jury’s still out about it. Some people have really negative effects from intermittent fasting, some people have really positive effects. When I work with clients that are pre-diabetic or diabetic, I do not get them to do intermittent fasting right away. It’s not the best for everyone because in some cases, it causes the body to go into a state of stress and actually maintain a higher state of glucose. Although, like I said, with some people, intermittent fasting is amazing for them. I don’t think it’s a good thing for everyone. I think it’s kind of a try it and see and notice how you feel and notice how your body responds kind of thing. But with the fasting that you’re talking about, which is a three- to four-day water-only fast, that—in a most fascinating way—speeds up the metabolism.

My husband did a 17-day fast last year. He does a few fasts every year. The metabolism will stay fairly high, and here you and I think well you’re not eating so wouldn’t the body conserve energy? Well, no. It actually does the opposite. The body goes, I really need to go find food. We got to go forage. We got to go walk miles and miles to find food. Let’s ramp up the metabolism, and so things actually ramp up. Now that you’re not having to spend all your energy digesting, now the body is spending all that energy healing. 

It’s very exciting this idea of incorporating fasting, and I like that you mentioned doing it around a new moon and a full moon because you’re ramping up your own metabolism, but also you’re supporting a very healthy stimulus to your immune system, and at the same time, you’re starving the parasites. I think that’s really neat that you’ve adapted that. How long have you done this habit?

 

[01:13:52] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Well, we’ve been doing this for, I would say, about nine months now, and we’ve been seeing a huge difference with it. First of all, it’s that interaction with mother nature. It’s really listening to her rhythm, responding to it, and allowing our body to succumb to that rhythm because when we do, that’s when true healing occurs and that’s when we really get a good response back from the fast itself. But it also gave you freedom. What I mean by freedom, how many of us are so stuck to the time that we eat? It’s 9:00 AM, it’s time that we’re supposed to be eating. At 6:00 PM we’re supposed to be having dinner. Based on how about how do you feel, do you even feel like you want to eat? Are you even hungry even, or is it more of a craving, is it more of something else?

 

[01:14:40] Ashley James: Or is it thirst.

 

[01:14:42] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Yes, thirst is one of the biggest reasons. A lot of people think you have to drink water throughout the day to stay hydrated. I personally like to drink a 25-ounce glass of water first thing in the morning on my way to work and drink the whole thing, then I drink another one on my way home, and then I have some during the day. But then I really get a good flush and then it stays there because the biggest mistake most people make is they try to drink their water throughout the day and then they don’t get enough water in. Whereas if you start with a really nice big glass in the morning with some lemon in it, some apple cider vinegar, or something like that to really get that cellular structure to become more alkaline, then you’re doing much better that way.

But then, the other piece of it is the freedom that it gives you. So let’s say that you’re going on a trip somewhere and you’re on a plane. You’re thinking, there’s no way I’m going to eat this food. But you’re like, but I’m going to be hungry. When you go through a fast you realize I don’t have to eat because I actually have gone three or four days I’ve gone without eating anything. 

The first time you do one you’re going to have a major headache. It’s going to feel like your head is about to explode. I keep thinking that’s all these toxins that I’m releasing. It’s parasites, it’s all these things are saying, let me out, let it out, and they’re wanting to come out. They do, they eliminate quite drastically. After that first or second day of the headache, which happens the first time you do the fast. When you do your second fast, the third fast, and the fourth fast, you don’t have those headaches anymore because your body’s saying, oh yeah. Okay, that’s what she’s doing. We’re in this. We know what to do now. She’s not going to starve us completely.

But think of the yogis that have gone 40, 45 days, 60 days, 7days without food. The body is very, very smart. I’ve heard of a lot of doctors actually saying that it’s actually healthy to have a little bit of fat on you. The reason for that is, for this reason, there’s a fat store in there that if there’s a disease, a virus, or something that comes into the body, it’s going to go after the fat first and not the organs. So when you see somebody who’s extremely thin, we’re talking like anorexic thin, they tend to—when they get sick—it starts to attack the organs more because there’s no fat to go for.

I always like it when I see my clients with a little bit of meat on them versus real thin because of that reason. The same thing goes with COVID. I’ve noticed with some of the COVID clients that I’ve been seeing through biofeedback, those that have a little bit of meat on them respond better to the biofeedback energetically, and they respond faster to the healing process. Whereas those that may be thinner, and I think part of that is because of the parasites. I think the parasites are greatly impacting or interacting within the person that is being exposed to COVID. That’s what’s making it change so much is the parasites within the body are making the characteristics of COVID change. That’s why they’re having a hard time keeping ahead of it, I believe.

Parasite cleanse, parasite cleanse, parasite cleanse. Do your foot spas that I know that Kellyann and the Platinum Energy System. I have one of those and I love it. That I do also at the end of my fast is I do a nice little foot spa too. That takes the dredges, the rest of the stuff out that that I didn’t quite complete with my fast. That was probably a long answer, wasn’t it?

 

[01:18:35] Ashley James: No, no, it was great. It’s all very interesting. Once you start getting into looking into parasites, you’re going down the rabbit hole chasing the white rabbit.

 

[01:18:51] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Yes.

 

[01:18:56] Ashley James: I’m going to mix up my metaphors, it’s like Dorothy going down the rabbit hole.

 

[01:19:00] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: She could be going there too.

 

[01:19:03] Ashley James: It just keeps going and going. I had a man on the show who’s married to a woman who is very famous, and I’ve also had her on the show. Of course, pregnancy brain, I’m not going to remember anyone’s names right now, I apologize. But she’s famous for the book she wrote in the ‘90s called Guess What Came to Dinner. She’s written a bunch, but she’s famous for parasite cleanses. I’m like 15 years old or 12 years old, my mom brings this book home. I’ve been into health stuff my whole life I just. I just decided to rebel. In my teen years, I decided to rebel and I paid for it in my 20s, basically, and I spent my entire adult life having to recuperate from all the damage I did to myself in my teen years rebelling against all the cool stuff that I was into and I still am.

We did a parasite cleanse with my family and we all got tested, and we had three parasites. We had two parasites from owning cats, and one parasite that we picked up from Mexico. This is in the ‘90s. Then we did a parasite cleanse and then we didn’t have them anymore. Reading the book, Guess What Came to Dinner, was like oh my gosh. And then to have her on the show I was just starstruck. I’m like you’ve been part of my whole life.

 

[01:20:25] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Are you talking about Hulda Clark?

 

[01:20:26] Ashley James: No, not Hulda Clark. She’s another amazing one. Anyways, her husband who I’ve also had on the show and he came on the show twice. His first time on the show—it was a two-parter—he shared that he about his cancer journey and how he was like in the middle of this weird chemotherapy that was killing him. He escaped the hospital in the middle of the night because he really realized that they will kill me in here. He escaped the hospital, and he’s like I’m just going to do something natural because I don’t want to go through this treatment anymore because the treatment’s killing me. And then he ended up completely healing his body using natural medicine, and it’s been his journey. That’s how he met his now wife who’s famous for parasite cleanses.

So he came on the show the second time to talk about—he has this YouTube channel where he interviews people who have overcome cancer naturally and what they did, and so that’s a big eye-opener. But one guy he interviewed got on an anti-parasitic over-the-counter medicine that you buy for animals. It’s been on the market forever.

 

[01:21:43] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Ivermectin.

 

[01:21:44] Ashley James: And his cancer went away. They’ve had over 60,000 people part of this—there’s a blog or a forum where they all gather online and they all share their experiences. He goes through and talks about five different reasons why it strips the coating on the tumors so that the immune system identifies it. I mean, it does like five different things. Again, you can’t say this is a cure-all because there are people out there who it didn’t work for. I’ve never ever, ever seen anything that was a 100% success rate when it comes to cancer, and I believe that’s because cancer is not just one thing.

When I interviewed the Italian doctor, Dr. Simoncini—for whatever reason I never forget his name. He’s fascinating. He was a surgeon, and he’s not a holistic doctor at all. So I always find it interesting when I interview doctors who’ve been kicked out of the mainstream realm for finding a cure and they’re not holistic doctors. Now they have to go around and hang out with all the holistic doctors because they’re the only ones that believe them.

So Dr. Simoncini, as a surgeon, cut open a tumor and said, “Why do tumors look like cottage cheese? Why do tumors look like candida overgrowth?” So he took a dying patient who was on their death bed anyway and they had a catheter set up to deliver chemotherapy right into the vasculature of the tumor. 

So he made up a mixture of sodium bicarbonate and water, which is baking soda and water, and that is a very alkaline mixture right. He says, well, this is what you would do if you had a yeast infection. The person was going to die anyway. They’re on their deathbed. He pours it into the tumor and the person lives. The tumor melts away, and he freaks out. I said, “Well, okay. What’s your success rate?” Because he does it all the time. This is his full-time job is he goes around basically installing catheters into the vasculature of tumors then pouring these sodium bicarbonate solutions into the tumors. He says about 70% of the time. I mean, 70% is better than any. Think about it, there’s no chemotherapy, no radiation that gets 70% of all kinds of cancer.

 

[01:24:17] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Let’s talk about side effects.

 

[01:24:19] Ashley James: Yeah, don’t even get me started. I’ve talked to oncologists and there’s commonly, if you’ve had chemotherapy, you have a 2% chance of developing secondary cancer from the chemotherapy. Similar to radiation, and the statistics vary from treatment to treatment. That’s just one side effect. But my point is that if all tumors were candida, then why wouldn’t this work 100% of the time? That’s because I believe that—I mean, based on talking to all these doctors that that help patients no longer have cancer, no longer have tumors—it’s not always one thing. There are multiple reasons, and we have to look at all these different aspects. We have to look at parasites.

When interviewing Viome, I’ve had two people on the show talking about the Viome company, which I love. If anyone wants to get this stool test, it’s phenomenal. I did it and it’s so informative. It’s a few hundred dollars, and it’s a home test. You can do it at home and you mail it in, and you get a coupon code LTH as in Learn True Health—gives you a discount. 

What I love about Viome is it’s going to give you the information you can’t get anywhere else because blood tests don’t show this. It’s showing the genetic expressions of the microbiome in your body and the chemicals they’re making from the food you eat because there’s a pharmacy in your gut. So it gives you this whole missing link of information. But what they said is there are new studies that just came out recently that show that tumors have their own unique microbiome. We can begin to detect tumors before they even become tumors because we can detect the microbiome of cancers.

That leads me to think, just wrap your brain around that, what if the microbiomes are creating the tumors or stimulating the tumors? What if there are parasitic personality traits that a certain kind of microbiome is like a parasite and then the body is reacting to it. I mean, there’s this whole world that opens up, and unfortunately, science progresses one death at a time. We have to really push for research in this regard, but the research dollars only go towards something that’s going to make people profit because the medical system’s a for-profit industry, which is super frustrating.

So if any listener out there wins the lottery, please figure out how to invest money into helping to get these answers solved when it comes to what truly is, what truly are these diseases? How come 70% of cancer just resolves itself after being treated with sodium bicarbonate solution, according to Dr. Simoncini.

 

[01:27:24] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Well, think about it, don’t most diseases grow in an acid environment? And then if you add on top of that, I bet he would probably improve his rate of improvement or cure if he also addresses the emotional components of cancer and look at the traditional Chinese medicine aspects of what organs hold, what memories, or what emotions. Typically that’s the one that’s going to get the disease. That’s when you look at the whole person. That’s what I absolutely love about what I do in integrative medicine is I integrate the two sides of the world. 

I integrate the medical side and the natural side and make them all make sense to the point where we can all work happily in the same play yard. But it’s addressing the whole person, not just the physical symptoms, the dis-ease, but also what got them there. They have shown that cancer actually starts growing seven years in advance before it’s even detected. If you can actually see the formation of it before it even starts, whether it’s through your emotions, the ones that you’re holding, the personality, the worry, all of that, that would actually help to reverse it in addition to any of the natural remedies. I love the idea of baking soda. I mean, that’s amazing. I take baking soda every night before I go to bed.

 

[01:28:55] Ashley James: I asked him about that. Why can’t we just drink it? The thing is that the body has a buffer system. Drinking baking soda is not really going to get the alkalinity and the concentration it’s needed for a tumor. If you’re on an empty stomach, it doesn’t hurt to drink some baking soda just like if you’re on an empty stomach or you’re about to eat food, it doesn’t hurt to drink some apple cider vinegar. When you first wake up in the morning, it’s very helpful to drink lemon juice because even though lemon is acidic, when the body interacts with it on a cellular level, it has an extra hydrogen molecule that binds to—there’s a chemical process. I heard it and it made sense to me, but then repeating it I feel like I’m not doing it justice.

In one of Ty Bollinger’s first docu-series where he goes down to—

 

[01:29:47] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: The Truth About Cancer.

 

[01:29:48] Ashley James: Yeah, The Truth About Cancer. It’s like season five, basically. It was back in season two of The Truth About Cancer where he went to Mexico. I don’t think it’s in Tijuana. It’s Mexico, and he worked with the Gerson Clinic. They explained the process that happens in the body that when we drink certain juices like lemon juice—even though it’s acidic—putting it in the body actually has a process it goes through on a cellular level which then alkalizes. I found that fascinating. 

We want to do it safely. You don’t want to alkalize your stomach acid when you’re trying to digest it. The first half of digestion in the stomach is acidic, and then right near the end, the body turns it more to neutral so that it can empty it into the small intestine. So when you take a digestive enzyme or apple cider vinegar, do it at the beginning, don’t do it at the end of a meal. Don’t eat and then an hour later, I forgot to take my digestive enzyme. I might as well take it now. Because if there’s hydrochloric acid in it, you’re doing yourself a disservice. 

You got to drink the apple cider vinegar in the beginning, or you take the hydrochloric acid digestive supplement in the beginning, not at the end. And then definitely don’t drink carbonated beverages during a meal. Any kind of fizzy beer, club soda, anything that’s carbonated that’s fizzy during a meal will lower stomach acid, will help to neutralize stomach acid, which is not a good thing during digestion. You certainly don’t want to drink baking soda during a meal either. But in between meals, go nuts. There’s my little safety rant for alkalizing, and I like to just get it from food as much as possible. Get your greens in, get your berries in. The body knows what to do with it when it comes to balancing out alkalinity.

 

[01:31:46] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: I don’t know if you ever listened to Dr. Zach Bush, but I absolutely love the man. He talks a lot about getting the nutrition from your food versus supplements and versus the other things. He basically says the supplement industry has taken over the pharmacy in that there are so many supplements out there that people are so confused as far as what it is. What they should be taking and how much, and is there an overload. 

I prefer to get your supplementation from your food because that is truly your life force. There’s a life force in that food. There’s a life force in the eating of it, the preparation of it, and the growing of it. But yes, there are times that you have to take supplements. It’s like you said, it’s not one of those end-all-be-all. You can’t just have this cookie cutter for everybody. It’s got to be very individualized. But the more we can get it from our food, the better. That’s why I really don’t like diets per se. Maybe it’s the word itself because the first three letters is die. For me, that’s kind of like do I really want to do that? Plus, does it really stick?

I’d much rather find a lifestyle plan, something that you can maintain your whole life versus just times that you want to fit into a dress, fit it into a pair of pants, or do something. You’re facing this life issue and now you got to drop the weight. How about you find something that is doable in your system that is like your ability to grow your own food or things like that that you can live with, that’s a long-term thing, that becomes a habit. That your body is growing with and fortifying with and so on, versus all these trendy little diets that keep showing up. 

Let’s find it from the food and then take the pressure off. Because usually when you’re on a diet, there’s something that you’re having to eliminate. Usually, that thing that you’re having to eliminate is something that you really, really like. Now you’re going through this stress of not being able to ever have that ever, ever again, which you know you’re going to have again. But it’s that whole thing of the all or none. Like in ayurvedic, we talk about using different colors to enhance your food, to get the most nutrition from your food, and things like that. As well as the emotion that you put into it and the enzymes. 

Why people have cravings is usually because we’re missing a taste in that food, whether it’s a sweet, a sour, or a salt. It’s missing. And so if you get all the flavors in your meal, you tend to not have the craving anymore because the taste buds have picked up that craving, that texture, that flavor, or that taste. All the taste buds on the tongue have been appeased. They’ve been relieved. They’re not saying, hey, I was left out so therefore I’m going to crave more of that, so the salt side. So then you start craving salty foods. So bring all those foods in. That was probably a tie into the tongue because I know we were really wanting to talk about the tongue.

[01:35:00] Ashley James: We’re going to get there. About diet, 10 years ago I went gluten-free—barley, wheat, rye, and oats. Now, once in a blue moon and I mean once in a blue moon, I will have something that has gluten in it. Not a huge detrimental thing happens if I have it once in a blue moon. I had such a profound change in my health in the first month of cutting it out. I’ve shared this on the show before, so I apologize to listeners for hearing me say this again.

I completely removed barley, wheat, rye, and oats, and my husband did at the same time. So there are 12 foods that we choose to cut out, and it was other things that are a little bit easier like no nitrates or nitrites. So if you’re going to have deli meat, you don’t have any nitrates or nitrites. No fried food, no oil in a bottle. So when you’re cooking you don’t cook with oil, and there’s a reason. I mean, I can go through and explain each one, and I have in the past in other episodes. But there are 12 foods that do harm to the body, and there are scientific reasons why. 

You can be a vegetarian, you can be a paleo. I mean, you can be any lifestyle. You can be eating a diet from Latin America, Asia, Africa, and it’s just removing 12 things. And then there are of course things you can replace it with.

No barley, wheat, rye, and oats were the biggest shift for me. I lost 25 pounds of water weight. This wasn’t fat. This was all water weight. My rings, which were custom fit for me sort of flying off my fingers, same with my husband. He dropped water weight, which was inflammation, and his wedding ring started flying off his hand which was custom-made for him. We had been married at the time for several years so we never had that problem.

We decided to wait a few months. So we waited about six months to get our rings resized because what if it just bounces back? I didn’t want to [inaudible 01:37:10] it off it anymore. So six months of our rings flying off our fingers we were like okay. We got to a point where we had to tie elastic hair bands around our fingers to keep our rings on. When we realized, well, we’re not going back to eating barley, wheat, rye, and oats so we’re not going to gain all this water weight back from the inflammation of these foods. Our body isn’t going to all of a sudden bounce back so our rings are going to be fine.

So we went and got them resized, and that’s when we found out that my husband went down two whole ring sizes and I went down one and a half ring sizes. That was such a profound difference for me that I don’t feel like I’m missing out by not eating barley, wheat, rye, and oats. For me, there are so many others. If I want grains, there are so many replacements for grains. 

Just last night my midwife—she’s amazing—made flourless brownies, and they are to die for. There are less than five ingredients, and they’re so good. The main ingredient is cooked chickpeas, and you would not know, but these are the most moist, dense, delicious brownies you’ve ever had, and there’s no flour in it. It’s high in fiber and protein. The first ingredient is chickpeas, the second ingredient is peanut butter, and you can have other nut butter if you want or seed butter. You can add either dates or maple syrup. You can do dark chocolate. Anyway, hers were delicious.

What’s so neat is that when you get creative in the kitchen, you don’t miss these things. But I like that you brought up that when people “diet,” they remove something suddenly from their life, and all of a sudden they’re missing that flavor profile. The fun that I’ve had the last 10 years as I’ve adjusted my diet because now I eat more whole food plant-based, as close to nature as possible. The fun for me has been how do I maintain that balance of flavors but find the healthiest version possible?

About five years ago, I went completely sugar-free like I did a sugar detox, and I had to read all the labels. I love hot sauce, I can’t tell you how many hot sauces out there have sugar in them. I absolutely love hot sauce, but it took me a long time to find a variety because I kind of get bored with hot sauce. I want a different hot sauce. I want to be able to choose different hot sauces, and so many of them have sugar in it. I found two, three, or four over time. I had to go to different stores to find one that had zero sugar and also zero of the other really gross ingredients that can be in processed foods. How did you put it, in prefabricated foods?

So I try to find the most natural artesian hot sauces with no sugar. But I really went to the extreme of absolutely no added sugar and my palate changed. I stopped craving sugar. I was always eating something with sugar in it, and I got to the point where I don’t want things that are that sweet. Even dates for me are too sweet, but I’ll go for some fruit. I’ll go for sweet potato, and that has an amazing sweet flavor. You can even make a chocolate mousse out of blending…

 

[01:40:36] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Avocado.

 

[01:40:38] Ashley James: Yes, you can do it out of avocado and raw cacao powder. But you can do it also out of—because I like to feed my son this because he’s allergic to avocado—I can feed him baked caramelized yams, take the skin off, blend it with raw cocoa powder. The sweetness of the yam—you don’t add any sweetness in. If you want to change the consistency you can add nut milk to it like coconut milk or something. But it tastes rich, chocolatey, velvety, and delicious. Then you feed it to your kid and you’re just sitting there laughing because you’re like, hahaha, I’m getting to eat something super healthy. They’re like, haha, my mom just fed me chocolate mousse. This is awesome.

You can have a lot of fun replacing those things as long as you acknowledge, like you said in Ayurveda, it’s about getting that balance of bitter, astringent, sweet, pungent, salty. There’s one more word that they incorporate in the flavors.

 

[01:41:45] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Yeah, I wasn’t sure which ones you already covered. One of the biggest ones that people always come to me about is I’m craving sweets. I usually recommend that they just get a bitter spray. You can buy that bitter you make your cocktails with, or you can get them at a health food store that may have a little flavor to them and you spray them on your tongue.

 

[01:42:06] Ashley James: Swedish Bitters.

 

[01:42:07] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Yeah, you spray it on your tongue and there goes your craving.

 

[01:42:13] Ashley James: And it’s really good for the liver.

 

[01:42:14] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Yes, well that’s the part is why? What is it? What emotion is driving that craving? You got to get back into the motions as well, but also then what is lacking in the diet? What’s lacking in emotion? What’s lacking in that aspect? I’ve thought about creating on the bestseller list of creating this diet that’s called the love diet. That should solve this question.

 

[01:42:41] Ashley James: You should do it.

 

[01:42:44] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: I should. The question is, is this loving to me? That’s always going to be the question. So there’s really no food that you’re going to have to look at, but it’s really just saying when you look at this food, is this loving to me? Meaning is it going to feed me, is it going to nourish me, is it going to make me more vital, is it going to regenerate my cells, is it going to be something that helps my mind become clearer, my thought become clearer, my breath, whatever? Is this loving to me? And if it’s not, then put it away and then identify why am I not wanting to be loving to myself by the food that food selection that I’m choosing, the amount of water, the type of beverage I’m choosing to drink?

Am I choosing a Pepsi over water, why? Is this Pepsi loving to me or is the water more loving to me? And some people may say well I get more enjoyment from the Pepsi. Well then let’s find out why are you getting enjoyment from that sugar. What’s missing?

 

[01:43:39] Ashley James: Well, enjoyment isn’t love, right? It’s kind of like going on Tinder, getting a date and having really, really empty sex. Sure, we can have a romp around for an evening. I remember before I met my husband feeling so empty. I mean, sure, sex is great with someone. But there’s not that connection that love, that intimacy that you have with your spouse. I end up feeling shame and guilt, and that’s the same thing.

Yeah, I could go to McDonald’s and sure I’m in the moment—by the way, McDonald’s is disgusting. Once you start eating super healthy, you can’t go back to those foods. I could find some kind of like pizza or whatever, some kind of gluten-free pizza. I could find something that is delicious at the moment or some kind of fried egg roll. At the moment it’s delicious—yum, but then I might feel gross, my digestion slows, maybe I don’t get to poop three times a day. I feel sluggish, I get brain fog. It’s kind of abusive. It’s not loving. It’s kind of abusive to go and have a bunch of empty dates, have a bunch of them sexcapades, and then just feel empty and shame. It’s kind of similar. Or go drinking every night. You’re getting that fulfillment at the moment, but is it really loving yourself? Is it an act of love for you? And no, it’s not. It’s a form of abuse. I think you’ve got to write that book.

 

[01:45:22] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Well, when you’re asking people to love you, if you don’t love you either like if you don’t love yourself, then how can they love you? How do they even know how to love you if you don’t even know how to love yourself? If we really start with loving ourselves first, then we teach other people how to love us too. That’s really what it’s about is teaching people how to love us. Sometimes that’s setting the boundaries, that’s setting limits. That’s saying no, that’s not acceptable in my love field, let’s say.

When you eat the foods that are loving to you, you become much more loving. If you make decisions that are much more loving to you, then you are much more loving to yourself and then you exude that out in the energy kind of like we started this conversation about in the very beginning was about energy. When we exude love for ourselves that love exudes out. What else do we attract? We attract love back, so we get more loving people in our relationships. We can get more loving people in our atmosphere, in our gang, in our crew, in our team, in our tribe—whatever you want to call it. More loving things come to us. More loving opportunities come to us when we’re more loving for ourselves. 

When we’re more self-destructive, we get more self-destructive things, more self-destructive friends, more self-destructive ideas or things. So you go down that forbidden path. Well, I’m just going to have 1 bite that then leads to 20 more bites that lead to the whole cake being eaten, and then you go down that deep dark despair. They even show it in movies where somebody has a heart broken, so what do they do? They go to the store and buy all this chocolate, they sit in their own little pajamas, they eat, cry, and do all that stuff, and then they feel horrible the next day when they’ve recovered their heart.

So let’s just tune into the love of our heart and what’s loving for ourselves, eat things that are loving for us, and get rid of those that aren’t. One of the things that I like to show people, especially in biofeedback, is how to do muscle testing on themselves and see, is this food, is this medication, or is this supplement healthy for you? When you get to teach them how to do that, I see people in the grocery store now that are out there muscle testing themselves on food before they buy it, and I love it. It’s like, yes. I love it when I see that happening. I see their bodies swaying. I’m like, oh, yeah that’s a good one, and then it makes them have better choices.

When some people are saying I don’t think my medication’s working for me anymore. I think I may be taking too much or something like that. Then I’ll say, well, let’s take out your prescription and how much you’re supposed to take. Now, what does your body say? I’m not saying this is for everybody, and it should always be under your care of a physician as far as whether you’re coming off your medications. But it’s just letting you know intuition-wise how in tune are you with your body. If your body’s saying I think I’m getting weaker on this stuff. I don’t think I need as much possibly. Maybe I can start titrating myself down, then I say then go to your doctor and start talking to them about can I start taking myself off of this? If so, what would be the best route to do it because I really feel like I’m not needing as much anymore or something like that.

 

[01:48:39] Ashley James: Oh, man, I can’t tell you that’s phenomenal how many times clients have come to me with really weird symptoms, and I say okay give me the list of meds you’re on. Not all my clients are on meds, but sometimes they come to me on meds and then I just have them sit on Google with me and we go through. Again, I’m not the prescribing doctor, I’m definitely not a doctor, and I don’t tell people they have to get off their meds but I ask them most of the time. I’ve only ever had one client say, no, I believe in medication and I want to be on it. I’m like, okay, this is your choice. But I want you to know the fullest of the side effects.

So my question to them as I ask, do you want to be so healthy your body no longer needs this medicine? Now, that doesn’t always apply. There are some cases where people like for example, type 1 diabetics will require some amount of insulin. It doesn’t mean they have to be on the amount of insulin they’re on now because I know a type 1 diabetic who cut it down by 75% by changing a few things in his diet, not major. Just a few things, minor things. 

He did cut out barley, wheat, rye, and oats as well, and he started taking a type of mineral supplement that did include chromium, vanadium, and other minerals because that helps to resensitize the insulin. Basically, insulin receptors don’t respond if there’s a chromium deficiency, and this was discovered in the ‘50s. That a doctor in California—I forget which university but in the ‘50s, and you could look at this on Wiki. A doctor could turn type 1 diabetes on and off in lab rats by starving them of chromium or by giving them chromium. So chromium is good, but it’s not the only thing. There are other things like B6 is incredibly important. There’s a whole process that B6 goes through when it comes to blood sugar regulation.

So there are multiple nutrients, and there’s this whole world of how people have been able to completely rid themselves of type 2 diabetes with diet alone, which is 100% doable, documented, written about, and I’ve had interviews about. But as far as type 1 is concerned, people can get so healthy that they can lower their amounts, and of course they know they’ve been taught how to measure themselves. But if you’re on an anti-anxiety, antidepressant, something to that regard, a high blood pressure med, a water pill, or a cholesterol med, and then you change your diet to be healthier, you do all these other healthier things, and not have your medications checked. It’s kind of like, but your body is getting healthier. What if you could have a reduced amount or completely have yourself taken off of it?

So that’s the goal. That the goal is to get so healthy that your body no longer requires that intervention or would require a minimal amount of intervention. What I do is if I have a client with a bunch of symptoms who are on medication, I will have them go on Google with me and we look at not the shortlist but the full list of side effects and we go down the list. They will start freaking out because they will go, oh my gosh. That’s the reason why they put me on this one. That’s the reason why they put me on this one. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had clients have epiphanies because they thought their bodies were breaking down further into the disease they were diagnosed into when it was the many of the side effects of the meds they were put on.

If your doctor isn’t willing to help to work with you either to find a different drug, to find a lower dose, or to get you so healthy you no longer need it. If your doctor’s not willing to work with you to get you healthier, to get you to not have symptoms and side effects, you can fire your doctor and hire a new one. They work for you. Don’t ever let the hubris of a doctor and their ego scare you into following their advice. Find one that is supportive of your health goals to be the healthiest person possible. 

It drives me nuts when people give over their personal power to a doctor. I know there are really good MDs out there who really, really, really want you to be healthy. They’ll take advanced courses, they’ll become functional medicine practitioners, they’ll go take extracurricular courses, and they want to help you either get on a different drug, get on a lower dose, or get you so healthy you no longer need it. 

That’s why I said there are so many good doctors like that out there that if you are stuck with a doctor who’s like nope we’re going to keep you on these meds no matter what. We’re not changing them no matter what because there many doctors out there that say diet doesn’t matter. You still have to be on this cholesterol med. It doesn’t matter that you’re eating a whole food plant-based diet and your cholesterol is lower. We’re going to just keep driving it down lower even still. Because cholesterol medication bruises the liver and stops the production of about 30% of our cholesterol, which is required. The liver makes it because the body needs it. Lots of books out there about that.

 

[01:53:59] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: The liver is so key to emotion. In traditional Chinese medicine, the liver is where happiness is, so happy liver happy life. If you think about it, the liver is what filters everything. When you see someone who is not the happiest type of person, that’s pretty negative, angry, and very reactive, typically I’d want to say we got to work on some liver stuff here. Do a liver cleanse or something like that because the liver is processing everything from environmental toxins, to internal toxins, to our own emotional toxins. I mean, I feel like liver is one of the most important organs we have in the body.

 

[01:54:42] Ashley James: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you and I could talk for hours and you get me all riled up. You get me on my soapbox so I get so excited. I want to talk about the tongue, man. Something happened to me it must have been about a year ago or so. It feels really recent but then when I think about it I’m like that was like over a year ago. Where all of a sudden, my tongue—and my tongue when my Naturopath says stick out your tongue or I go to acupuncture and they’re like stick out your tongue, I kind of stick it out with pride. I’m kind of like, oh I know I’m so healthy and you’re going to look at my tongue and you’re going to be like impressed. 

Well, all of a sudden, just over a year ago, my tongue did the weirdest thing out of nowhere and it had cracks in it like lines running down it like it split open. I had a geographic tongue and it really hurt for three days. I was kind of freaking out.

But I have a friend who’s very much into energy medicine. He did energy work with me and he said this is an energetic problem. I’m not going to get too much into the details, I might freak people out, but basically, he helped me to resolve that, and then gradually my tongue healed. But super weird that it just came on suddenly and all of a sudden I had really, really deep fissures in my tongue out of nowhere. It felt more of an energetic problem and then we resolved energetically. But everywhere I looked online was like well people think it might be a virus, people think it might be a nutrient deficiency, but we don’t really know.

So you can read the tongue and weird obvious things like once people stick out their tongue and if there are cracks down the middle, geographic tongue, or if there’s tongue separates and it looks like the Grand Canyon on their tongue, that means something. Let’s talk about the more obvious because the people who look at their tongue and they’re like well, my tongue just looks like a tongue. There are no lines, there are no bumps, it just looks like a tongue. I’m sure you could probably point out things for them, but the more overt like if you look at your tongue and it’s doing this weird thing over here, tell us about that first.

 

[01:57:00] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Okay. So first of all, I want to touch on that geographic tongue because in the geographic tongue, there are actually two different types. There’s one that’s a surface geographic and then there’s the one with the deep fissures like you’re talking about. The deep fissures is definitely an energetic issue that needs to be resolved, but there’s also a geographic tongue where on the surface of the tongue you’ll actually see where the papilla are. On the actual surface, you’ll actually see the geography of the mapping of the tongue. So the tongue is mapped geographically based on where the organs are.

So for example, the tip of the tongue is where the heart is, then right behind that tip is where the lung is, then on the sides of the tongue is where the liver and gallbladder resolves, then right down the center is the stomach and the spleen, and then right towards the back of the tongue is where the kidney, bladder, and the intestines are located. So when you’re looking at the tongue, similar to the eye, you’re looking at geography. If you see any changes within that aspect or that area of the tongue, then you go, ah, we’ve got to look further into that.

So when we’re looking at the tongue, we’re looking at the color first and foremost. The color tells us so many different things whether there’s inflammation, if there’s blood deficiency, if there’s too much cold, too much heat in the body, you’re looking at the color. So one of the first things I look at is if it’s a deep red tongue like it looks like a raw steak, then that’s a lot of inflammation in the body. That person is dealing with some pain issues, they’re dealing with a lot of maybe inflammation of the organs. That there’s some great illness going on there. 

If it’s a pale tongue, then that means they’re very deficient in blood or in the yang aspect of things. They tend to be a little cooler, circulation tends to be their hands are cold, their feet are cold. If there’s a purplish color to the tongue—and a lot of people will say, well I don’t see the purple, because it’s very subtle—purple is a stagnation of blood meaning there’s an injury somewhere. Typically, when I see purple, it’s affecting the muscles and the joints, pain in the muscles and the joints. If it’s blue, then the person’s really, really cold. They’ve got a lot of coolness in the body itself, and so that means the organs are also running cold.

I look at the color first. I always look for a coating as well. it’s normal to have a little bit of coating, but the coating is also based on what is the color of the coating and the consistency. So how thick is it? So if it’s really thick, then that means there are pathogenic issues going on? They probably have some candida, some yeast, parasites, those kinds of things. If there’s an absence of coating, that means that they’re they’ve got a yin deficiency so they don’t have enough heat in the body. If there is a white then there’s cold present, so that means there might be coming down with something.

One of the things I used to do with my kids was if they didn’t feel like they wanted to go to school and they wouldn’t want to act like they were sick, I’d always say let me see your tongue. If that tongue didn’t have any coating they’re going to school. They can’t pull, they just can’t.

 

[02:00:26] Ashley James: Did you look at their eyes too?

 

[02:00:27] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Of course.

 

[02:00:30] Ashley James: You’re like let me look at your eyes, let me look at your tongue. No. Do you have a test today? You’re going to school.

 

[02:00:35] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: I was looking to see which direction they went because if they were having to create something, they were going up into the right brain. If they were telling me the truth they’re going to the left. That would tell me if they’re lying, so I look at that. 

But also the moisture of the tongue. So if it’s really wet, then that means that there’s a lot of internal damp going. If they’re dehydrated it’s going to be really dry, too much heat going on in the body. So for example, if I see the tip of the tongue and it’s really red, then there’s heat in the heart. So that’s a really good way to look at that. I’m trying to think of what that state would be, but too much heat in the heart would be like a heart condition of some sort, not where you have congestive heart failure that would be the tongue on the tip would be wet and it would be of a different color not heat. I look at that.

The crease down the center of the tongue typically means there’s something going on with the spine, so they’ve had a long-term spinal issue. So if I see that deep crease down the center I ask them, so tell me about your back. What’s going on with that? And they’re like, how do you know about my back? Then I’ll say, well, you got that deep crease going on, so they’ll tell me. But if there are more lines in the middle of the tongue, that means it’s a new thing. It’s more of an acute episode. If it’s a decrease and it’s been a long-term thing, I tend to see a deep crease on someone who has scoliosis, for example. 

If I see bite marks on the outside of the tongue where the liver and the gallbladder are located, and typically I mean by that is where the ridge of the outside the tongue is, if I see bite marks there, either that’s a spleen deficiency where the blood is not coursing through the body as well, so there’s usually a pain issue or something going on with the blood. They need a blood cleanse of some sort, or they’ve got some pathogens going on. 

But typically, if it looks like they’re biting their tongue, that means they’re not absorbing their food. So either they’re not eating their food enough—chewing it enough, or they’re needing a digestive enzyme. Their body’s not developing that enzyme. It could also mean they’re having difficulty processing protein like meat proteins, for example. So then their body is not being able to bring up enough of the digestive enzyme to break down that particular type of protein, so we may need to look at that instead.

The best way that I do this is when I’m doing my biofeedback with somebody and I’m doing my first session with them I’ll say, okay, let me look at your tongue, and then they stick their tongue out. So I cue people that the best way to see what the health and status is of yourself is first thing in the morning before you drink any water whatsoever or drink anything, go look at your tongue—

 

[02:03:45] Ashley James: Or brush your teeth.

 

[02:03:46] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: And then scrape your tongue. Yeah, or even brush your teeth. Always look at your tongue first before you do anything, and that’ll tell you exactly what’s going on—how much bacteria you’re developing throughout the night as you’re sleeping. What the color is, just how much of a coating you have. And then before they drink any water I ask them to scrape their tongue. 

What I mean by that is not with a toothbrush where they scrape it back and forth while they’re brushing their teeth because then they’re just pushing the bacteria or whatever is on the tongue deeper into the papilla kind of like when you had those creases and those crevices. Imagine if you were to take a toothbrush and scrape your tongue that way, it would push it deeper down into those crevices and then you’re going to get a great outgrowth of bacteria. 

So I basically recommend that they scrape it. You can get those tongue scrapers. There’s a metal one, bamboo, or you can even get the plastic ones. I say just grab a spoon, a big old tablespoon from your drawer and just use that and then you just scrape it and then rinse—scrape, rinse, scrape, rinse, and keep scraping until no more of this stuff comes off. Whether you floss your teeth or you brush your teeth first and then floss, but then you floss and then do an oil pulling. The oil pulling will do the last little bit of pulling out all the rest of that bacteria that you might have missed and that’ll help a lot. So I usually recommend doing that.

 

[02:05:13] Ashley James: Explain oil pulling for those who don’t know how to.

 

[02:05:16] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Okay. So oil pulling, you just take a coconut oil—whether it’s the fractionated coconut oil or the solid oil. You just take a teaspoon or a tablespoon of it, then you stick it in your mouth, and you swish it around. It’s going to melt because your mouth is very warm. It’s going to melt it and then you swish it for five minutes. Most people, if they can’t tolerate five minutes, just two minutes then and then you spit it out. I want to caution people, do not spit it down your drain because it will congeal and then you’ll get a clogged drain. I don’t want husbands or spouses mad at me because they got a clogged drain now because of the oils going into the drain.

So typically, spit it in a garbage can or something that you’re going to dispose of, and that’s the best way to do an oil pulling.

 

[02:06:07] Ashley James: What about sesame oil? I’ve heard use sesame oil, so why coconut oil?

 

[02:06:12] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: I like coconut oil because people like the flavor of coconut oil, and if you like it you’re going to do it. Whereas sesame can be very seasoned or a taste that most people have a tendency to try to acquire, but either oil would be good. I also use MCT oil, that medium-chain triglyceride. That’s also a very good oil to use as well.

 

[02:06:38] Ashley James: It’s not like that coconut oil has more anti-microbial properties than another kind of oil, it’s just a matter of taste?

 

[02:06:46] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Well, yeah. First of all, it’s availability. I try to make suggestions based on availability for most people. Taste and acquireness of taste because if they’re not going to like it they’re not going to do it, and how readily do they have it. So yes, I do like coconut oil for that reason—the anti-micro microbial, which is why the MCT works so well, why it’s so good for pulling the bacteria and the virus stuff out. But the sesame, yeah. I have sesame oil and I use it myself. I use it actually on my skin quite a bit, it’s wonderful. I love the taste. I also put it on my popcorn too.

 

[02:07:30] Ashley James: If they had any oil, I mean any plant-based oil, not canola oil. You throw that canola oil out. If you have oil in your house, you just throw that out. But if you have olive oil, any kind of oil as long as you like the flavor you’re swishing it around your mouth. And of course, saliva comes in also so your mouth is now full of saliva and a little bit of oil. Your mouth feels so clean after you do oil pulling, it’s really interesting. It really does.

 

[02:08:03] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: And I also encourage the use of bentonite clay, and I like bentonite clay especially with the brushing aspect of it. So most people don’t really like the flavor of bentonite clay because it’s clay. So I usually suggest that if they have a fluoride-free, aspartame, or sugar-free type of toothpaste that they really like, then go ahead and put the toothpaste on the toothbrush and then dab it into your bentonite clay. And the bentonite clay goes further into pulling out that bacteria. 

If somebody has gingivitis or really bad cavitation or things like that in their teeth, which if most people understood the dental aspect of your teeth, they’re all associated with an organ. Each tooth is associated with an organ. So if you have an infection going in one of your teeth, it’s probably affecting that organ or it may be coming from that organ.

The eyes, the tongue, everything about us is so fascinating. There’s always a map to something, and so the teeth are the same thing. So if you have an infection in the teeth, bacteria, or gingivitis then you’re going to have a lot of health issues. That’s where you find a lot of hidden things that aren’t being tested in the medical field. That’s why 85% of the people that come to me say I’ve gone to every specialist there is and nobody’s been able to find anything wrong with me except saying I need a psych eval, kind of like what you mentioned. I always go to the teeth, I always want to look at the teeth. That’s the second or third thing I look at is the teeth too.

 

[02:09:44] Ashley James: Eyes, tongue, teeth.

 

[02:09:46] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: But the bentonite pulls it up. Well, ears, everything else.

 

[02:09:48] Ashley James: Poop.

 

[02:09:49] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Yeah, poop, you name it. Nothing is left untouched or looked at.

 

[02:09:57] Ashley James: I mean, once someone when someone’s gone to you they’re like what do MD? You go to an MD, they might see you for 15 minutes if you’re lucky. They barely look in your eyes ever, and it’s like how much information are they actually gathering? Well, they’re not trained to. And again, there are good MDs out there—the ones that really go for extracurricular courses and stuff—but traditional MD training, you don’t really look in someone’s eyes, tongue, mouth, ears, discuss their poop. 

But as a doctor, you’re supposed to be a detective. Only looking at the objective versus also considering the subjective, and only looking at labs. That’s just one piece of that picture. You’re missing out on so much. So I really do love that you’re incorporating many different medicine modalities from around the world that show us windows into our health, not just physical but energetic, emotional, and showing us that they’re more than just a meat sack. It’s quite interesting.

 

[02:11:18] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: I love learning. I’m kind of a nerd.

 

[02:11:22] Ashley James: You’re in good company.

 

[02:11:24] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: I got a look at that. Yes, in fact, that’s what I find with most of your listeners is that they’re very learned. Many of them are like oh hey like I’ve learned a lot from some of my… and that’s the thing about healthcare. That’s the thing about being an integrative doctor is that when you stop learning, you should stop practicing because we should always be open to learning something.

 

[02:11:46] Ashley James: Right, same with teachers. I think if teachers stop learning they should stop teaching. We should always be expanding and always be excited. If you’re burnt out in your field you’re not serving. If you’re in a field where you service people, which there are very few fields where you don’t in some capacity service someone or service someone’s needs. But if you really are burnt out and you’re not growing as a person in that field, if you’re not growing and interested, you’re doing your customers a huge disservice and also yourself because being stagnant is akin to being in purgatory. Being stagnant, everything gets clogged up. 

Find what you’re passionate about and then dive into it and it’ll radiate. When you’re passionate and you’re absorbing information, you want to help others. But like you said, you surround yourself with those like-minded people. When I cut out sugar and fast food, I noticed that I wasn’t surrounding myself with people that love to go to bars, drink alcohol, eat fast food, and eat sugar. 

There were even some moms that our son was hanging out with, there’s a bunch of kids, and there were some moms who were really excited. We’re going to go to McDonald’s next. I’m like, okay, have fun. Bye. She was all excited, and she was a nice person don’t get me wrong, but she wanted to go to McDonald’s like every day and she did every day with her kids. She wanted all the other moms to meet there so that all the kids can play in the play area. 

My husband, he’s so great. He goes, our son will never enter McDonald’s because I don’t want him breathing in the heterocyclic amines from the fried food. I look at my husband and I’m like I love you. I love you so much. I was even willing to go. Okay, well maybe we’ll just let him play in the play area, which is disgusting by the way. The McDonald’s player is disgusting. I mean, you want a kid to be a kid and just have fun. My husband’s like, no. He’s not even going to breathe in that poisonous air. What are you talking about?

So you just end up surrounding yourself with people. Over time, I just found these crunchy moms that some of them are more crunchy than me if you can believe it. I had one mom reading labels more than I read labels. I didn’t think that was possible. It’s just raise your standards, find people that are in line with your health goals, and surround yourself with those people. So I just noticed that over the last few years, my friend base has really changed in a good way. I don’t throw people away, it’s just people that naturally will gravitate away from and gravitate towards depending on your focus.

Going back to the things you were talking about when you talk about loving your body like truly, you look at that food, is this loving me? Not is this giving me instant gratification and pleasure, but is this loving me? Because if there’s a component of like well I’m going to have great pleasure eating it and then there’s going to be a period of shame and guilt afterward, that’s not love. That’s not loving you. That’s not nourishing you. That is creating healthy boundaries. That is learning how to create healthy boundaries within oneself. And when you learn to love yourself as authentically as you have illustrated, we find it easier to then inform others of our boundaries as to how we want to be treated.

This is getting into the idea of that there are no villains or victims. Coming from the standpoint of if you believe there are no villains or victims because we choose based on all of our conscious and unconscious choices, we choose how to tell people how to treat us. We are the ones that choose to be in social situations. Now, this is not like a black or white situation. This is just an exercise in thinking to give us new access to information. So if we come at life from a standpoint of I am empowered in my life, I am responsible for my life and my choices, then what we do is we say to ourselves in this life that I have—sorry, my kids playing in the background it’s distracting me. I’m trying to focus here. The pregnancy brain has taken over. I’m surprised I made it this long.

 

[02:16:37] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: A sparkly thing.

 

[02:16:40] Ashley James: He’s playing with the jack in the box and I’m just like, ahh.

 

[02:16:48] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: It’s kind of funny that you were talking about McDonald’s, you know jack-in-the-box.

 

[02:16:52] Ashley James: Oh, right, right, right. Well no, the old toy. He’s playing within the background. It’s so funny my brain just goes oh. In terms of enforcing boundaries, this is what’s so exciting about enforcing boundaries, and if people want to get into this deeper, go look into non-violent communication and you can find hours of videos on Youtube. The man who invented this passed away, but his family created a foundation. You could pay something like $12 or $20 a month or whatever to gain access to thousands of hours of his training. There’s a lot of great lessons you can learn, but the focus is this. If you identify as a victim, you give up your personal power because you’ve given up your ability to say I am at cause in my world, I enforce my boundaries, and I teach people how to treat me.

So when we decide to not identify as a victim but instead go okay, things have happened to me and I get to now choose how to train people how to treat me. I am in control in that I will teach them how to treat me. That is a measure of self-respect and love that will come more naturally when we start to do things like you said—choosing foods and even routines in our life like going to bed at 9:00 PM versus midnight is an act of self-love. It creates a discipline that is enforcing a boundary that says I love myself so much this is my personal boundary.

And so then if you decide that your bedtime is always 9:00 PM. You get into bed, you read for an hour, and you go to sleep. And then someone wants to go drinking with you or do a behavior that would keep you up late at night, then you get to decide, am I going to teach these people in my life that this is my boundary and for them to respect it. And then you teach them and you show them this is my self-love. Over time, it gets easier and easier. But at first, people will abreact, will push against you, and try to bulldoze your boundaries.

 

[02:19:16] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Or shame you.

 

[02:19:17] Ashley James: Every form of manipulation, right? So when we go into health stuff and then we have friends and family that don’t understand it, then they really try to get us to go eat and behave the old way. That’s why I love it if we keep coming at it from how Dr. Vienna said everything you put in your mouth and every health choice you make, ask yourself, is this authentically loving me? And that will help open you up to understand boundary setting on a whole new level when it comes to your health. Then you have to teach people gradually over time how to treat you in this new way where they will respect the boundaries of your self-love instead of trying to manipulate, hurt you, or have you stumble or fall. 

They’re all doing that unconsciously too. They’re not like hahaha, how am I going to make her get off her diet? It’s largely unconscious, but our friends and family will try to bulldoze our boundaries at first. This is why I like nonviolent communication because they teach you step by step how to, in a loving way, hold a boundary in place and not let toxic behaviors continue.

I just wanted to incorporate that into what you said.

 

[02:20:34] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Yeah, and I agree with all of that. You summarize it very nicely. When did we start making time so important? Okay, you didn’t develop to develop this illness overnight, so then why are you expecting recovery overnight. So allow yourself the time to heal, the time to develop that habit, the time to develop that good behavior because oftentimes, what happens is January 1st, everybody’s starting on this new year’s resolution, which I don’t believe in. Every day should be a resolution. But you start this new year’s resolution. Oh, I’m going to not eat sugar for however long, and then two days in you eat sugar. Then you go through the shaming of yourself, your psyche, everything. See, I can’t hold myself to anything. I’m just weak. No, you start out with I’m strong, doing the I ams. It’s a very powerful two-letter word—I am—and really working on that.

But then it’s also really thoroughly enjoying the process, thoroughly enjoying it and finding out what’s the root cause behind that emotion. So many times, in the two-hour sessions that I have with people because really, that is about what it takes for people to just even open up is you find out the past hurts, the childhood hurts, the childhood traumas that made you the adult you are today. And so when you could go into those childhood traumas and you can heal that child, then guess what, the adult heals too.

When the adult is healed, then that adult makes better choices, then they start to love themselves more, and then they become better parents because then they see, oh my gosh, I told myself I was never going to be like my parents and here I am, I’m becoming like my parents. Not like their parents were bad either, it’s just the way in which we were perceived or the way in which we were taken. But I see a lot of those childhood traumas that affect the choices they make today.

So when we could go back and heal that, and that’s where I feel true healing comes in, where the true aha moment comes in. Because when you ask the question were you a child that got to be heard, or were you the child that could be seen and not heard? When they tell me I was the one that could be seen but not heard, oftentimes there’s that thyroid, there’s the immune system going on where they have a thyroid issue because of that or they don’t have a voice. 

So they tend to be a victim because then they choose partners that are similar to that to where there’s comfort because back when that emotional intelligence was being developed in that childhood, that’s what they lean into as an adult. Therefore, that influences every decision they make, the friends they hang out with, the choices they make as far as the companion they want to be with for the rest of their lives.

It’s not until you actually start to heal yourself to where you actually start to find that root issue that is making you destroy who you are internally, externally, emotionally, psychologically—all of that. Once you find that thing—that one thing—then you can actually build on it, and that’s where the true healing starts to begin and you start to see it physically. When people start to rebuke and when they start to sabotage possibly, it’s because they see this person who has made all of this wonderful effort.

I have this one friend of mine. She has lost over 100 pounds and she’s done it the right way—with healthy food, with exercise, with walking, and you could just see the total vitality that is emanating from her. You can see this vitality of wanting to exercise. Everybody says, well if you just get off the couch you could lose some weight. Do you know how much it takes to have an extra 40 pounds on you, and then to have the motivation to lift those 40 pounds to go exercise? Yet you got to have that internal motivation, and that internal motivation is the love of life. 

I saw this friend of mine who doesn’t allow himself to eat sugar very often, but when he does, he thoroughly enjoys the moment. Anybody who is around him gets to see him thoroughly enjoying it just from his facial expressions. When he takes that bite of that—he might only just take one bite of a cheesecake, for example, but the facial expression. Your mouth is almost drooling just watching him because he’s thoroughly enjoying that moment. 

So if you’re giving yourself a moment to have that one bite of that one thing that you said I could never have again, but you take such sheer pleasure in enjoying it—let all your taste buds break down every ingredient of that food, of that I item, then you don’t need more because now you’re fully engulfed, almost an orgasmic experience that you’re having right now with that food because you’re allowing yourself to truly enjoy it. That’s how every meal should be taken.

We tend to dilute it with beverages, with entertainment, with conversation, with our phone in front of us, our TV on, or something like that takes away that pleasure. But if you just take that one little plate of food, you take a bite of it, you close your eyes, and you let your taste buds taste every little taste or every little essence that’s in that food, you won’t need as much food to finish. You’ll be very nourished, you’ll feel gratified after your meal, and it would be one of the best meals you’ve ever had because you went in full-blown with every sensory perception there is in there.

 

[02:26:38] Ashley James: I love it.

 

[02:26:39] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: So thoroughly enjoy it.

 

[02:26:40] Ashley James: And make it be an act of self-love the fact that you’re not binging. Even like you said, people will eat and they’re not even conscious of the food that they’re eating. They’re just looking at their phone, watching TV, or whatever, and they’re not even experiencing it. They’re not enjoying it. When you do really, really, really enjoy it, you don’t have to just blindly overeat. You can really get the satisfaction out of each bite, and slowing down to chew your food—like really chew 20 times kind of thing with each bite—really helps digestion. We talked about this last time that you and your husband do. But there’s this amount of being conscious.

Sometimes people go unconscious around their finances, or they go unconscious around their budget. They go unconscious around food. Wherever we go unconscious in life, we don’t really have healthy strategies, I’ve got to tell you. Look at an area of your life that’s been in your blind spot that you’ve really been unconscious of, that you’ve been neglecting, and look if you have healthy strategies holding that part of your life up, or are you kind of like being a teenager where it’s just instant gratification, looking for pleasure, and not really worrying about the consequences.

So it does take that emotional quotient, that delayed gratification and being conscious of that one area of your life. Shine light on it not to grow shame and guilt, but shine light on it and build healthy habits around that area. I’ve got lots of episodes on building healthy habits, and of course, listeners can go to learntruehealth.com, use the search function there, and type in healthy habits. I’ve got several episodes all about doing that. Like you said, don’t rush it. What’s this idea that we have to do it right away? It has to all be done right away. Start. Start and get conscious. 

If it’s something like getting conscious about how much water you drink. Getting conscious about the foods you’re putting in your mouth and staying conscious during a meal. Getting conscious while you’re moving your body in a way that brings you joy. Getting conscious about things around your body, your health, and your emotional state, and getting conscious about your eyes, your tongue, and those kinds of habits that you pointed out. How we can manage our oral health in a way that’s going to bring even more vitality. 

But getting conscious allows us to make really positive changes in a much more rapid fashion, and then also bringing that learning about how to enforce healthy boundaries with others. Because once you start making changes, sometimes other people in our life don’t like it. It’s like crab in the bucket. I don’t know what it is. I want to protect you as the listeners in a healthy way to be able to not allow the people that love you to squish your efforts. Tall poppy syndrome I think it’s called in Australia. 

When you’re just sprouting, when you’re just like a little baby sprout in the garden, it’s so easy to squash the plant as opposed to at the end of the season, when the plant’s huge now and it’s hard to squash it. So that habit is very delicate at first right, so protect that habit as you grow it and don’t let others around you squash it. Continue to protect it and also teach others that these new healthy habits are your self-love. Watch it flourish and watch it grow.

Dr. Vienna, Lafrenz, it’s been such a pleasure having you on the show today. You and I could go on for hours and hours, as we often do. Your website is natural-therapeutics.com, and of course, links to everything that Vienna does are going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. Is there anything that you want to say to wrap up today’s interview?

 

[02:30:52] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Well, first of all, I want to say thank you to the listeners who have reached out to me in the past from the last podcast because we’ve developed some wonderful friendships from that, and I’ve learned a lot from them as well. The way that this iridology piece would work is they would send me a picture of their eyes and then I would spend some time analyzing it, and then we’d sit down and actually go through it together.

Don’t be afraid of your tongue, not only with the appearance but also what comes off of it. Speaking our truth and like you were saying, standing up for ourselves and making sure that people are aware. I think truly, the consciousness, when we become more aware of our environment, aware of our feelings—developing our awareness actually adds to the consciousness piece. And so that heightened awareness of what is driving this craving? What is driving this mood? What is driving this reaction? And what is driving the reaction from another?

So if you have someone who’s close to you that might be trying to sabotage you, what is driving that? Maybe they’re envious of the fact that you can stick to something so strong as cutting out sugar and they want to do it themselves. Oftentimes it’s a mirror that they’re looking into, and so you can help others. That’s what I like.

 

[02:32:19] Ashley James: I’ve seen this so many times. I had a boyfriend who we were together for like five years. I started to do a lot of personal growth work and that really threatened him. He tried to sabotage me every step of the way, it was really interesting. It finally came out, I finally sat down with him. I’m like listen, we need to talk. What is up with your inappropriate behavior around my choices? These are healthy choices I’m making. What are you doing? I pulled it out of him and he said to me I’m afraid you’re going to leave me because you’re going to grow so much that we’re not going to see eye to eye. It was all of his insecurities that came forward, and I think that’s really common.

I like watching the show My 600-lb Life, not because of the health advice. Please, please, do not watch that show for health advice. It’s awful health advice. My 600-lb Life, you’re following people who are morbidly obese, and then they do things like gastric bypass surgery and eating a very bad diet like low-fat yogurts that have sugar in them. I mean, it’s just really weird. But they’re eating less than 1200 calories a day. 

Oftentimes, they go through periods where they fail and then they go to counseling. I watch that show, they follow them for a year, and then they have another show where you follow them for a second or third year. The ones who make it, every single time—you watch a few seasons of this you start seeing a pattern—there’s going to be one or more enablers because these people were over 600 pounds someone had to bring them food. Someone had to keep bringing them the food. The enablers, if it’s a husband or a boyfriend, most of the time end up leaving the person one once they’ve achieved their goal weight or when they’re on their weight achieving their goal weight because they couldn’t handle the person getting healthy, getting their life back, and not being dependent on them. 

I know it’s a really overt example because it’s oftentimes it’s covert in our life, but it’s very overt when you watch that show. And then for those who watch that show, if you do watch the show, please read the book or listen to the audio version of the book by Dr. Garth Davis called Probenazole. He is a weight loss surgeon who saw that he was gaining weight and losing his health on the same diet he had all of his 600-pound patients on. 

He had to go back to the drawing board because he realized that everything he was doing was wrong and really not helping people in the long run. So his book is all about the actual science of eating healthy for health, for reversing disease. Now he doesn’t have to cut people’s stomachs out because he has a program that is about nourishing the body based on science. So I love his book Probenazole, and I highly recommend listening to it.

I like watching My 600-lb Life because you see the psychological changes that occur when someone is making major, very overt changes, and how they learn how to enforce boundaries and love themselves, and how other people sometimes end up moving away from them or moving towards them based on whether they were there to actually support or whether they couldn’t handle it.

It’s a very interesting thing when we start to make these changes in our life, know that some people are threatened by it, and that’s because they’re afraid you’re going to leave them or they’re afraid that they’re not going to be needed anymore. It’s all insecurities. The thing is if we live through fear, fear becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s best to get it out in the open and come from love, which is what you teach.

 

[02:36:24] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: When I was working as an occupational therapist, I specialized in people with size. What I found in many cases is the enablers didn’t know any other way to express love, and that was to feed them, to provide them the pizza, to do all those other things. They didn’t know any other way. So then that’s when it comes down to let’s have a conversation about what other ways you can show love because you don’t always want to discourage the relationship to end.

In many cases, when you see such a loving relationship, you don’t want to encourage them to leave their partners or things like that, but how about let’s work with a partner too. I’m not saying that that’s what you’re saying. What I’m saying is let’s get everybody involved and let’s show a different way of love.

So if this person is on this path of wanting to eat healthily, then let me show you another way you can demonstrate love. How about giving them a foot massage, a little reflexology, back massage, or just a little effleurage where you’re doing a little bit of soft mobilization which also circulates the fat and gets us the cellulite to disperse as well. Let’s show other ways. Whether through essential oils or other means. When you can give them that other avenue, then they can be part of the solution versus part of the problem. Then they also then can say, oh, so there are strategies to get around this. Once they learn how to love that person, they’ll start to learn how to love themselves, and so then it’s a wonderful thing.

 

[02:38:01] Ashley James: Beautiful. I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show again. And of course, listeners can work with you. You help people gain profound results, and I feel that you’re affordable considering everything you offer, so I highly recommend listeners all around the world can work with you remotely. And of course, if they’re in the Okanagan Valley in Washington, they can go to Republic and see you in person as well, which would be fun. Natural-therapeutics.com is Dr. Vienna Lafrenz’s website.

Well, we’re going to have to have you on the show again at some point and hear about how your garden goes this year with your experiments that you’ll do this time. Maybe sharing your food with others and seeing how it affects others, that would be very interesting.

Man, I’d love to study the microbiome of different plants and the contrast that the microbiome has based on whether you held the seeds in your mouth or not. I think that would be really interesting, or the frequency. There are machines you can hook up the plants to and see is there a different frequency of energy or is there a different sugar content? Is there a different nutrient value? It’s all grown in the same soil, same sunlight, same amount of water, but what other changes can we see, and what are the changes can we see in other people?

 

[02:39:26] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Also, the ones that were my seed for example, if I went through a depression or something like that, would it affect my plant? I bet it would. I think that’d be fascinating.

 

[02:39:38] Ashley James: Right. Fun.

 

[02:39:44] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: So if I stop growing will my plants stop growing?

 

[02:39:47] Ashley James: I like to see the chain of custody. I like to think about the chain of custody of my food. The farmers, were they treated well? Was it a local farm, family farmers? Were they people who were happy with their job, or were they working in really poor conditions? Then there’s the distribution center, how those people had to handle your food. And then it goes to the grocer, unless you can source it straight from the farmer, which would be awesome. All the grocers that work there for minimum wage, are they treated well? How’s their level of happiness, and how long does it sit on the shelf? What country did it come from? How long did it have to fly? 

So it’s the environment, how many weeks has it been since that apple was picked or months because apples can be stored in a way that it’s been months? How long has it been out of the soil basically dying slowly, and how many hands came across it? This is just talking about whole foods. Imagine if it’s these factory manipulated pseudo food, how many hands and how many chemicals had to go into that food? So if we can get the closest to the source as possible and be the one that influences the plant on that level, I mean that is such a cool experience to have even if you’re just growing microgreens inside your apartment, you know what I mean? 

It’s such a cool experience to have to be able to influence directly, grow directly, nourish your body, and have zero chains of custody. You, you’re the chain of custody, that’s it. That is such a cool experience for your body to go through.

 

[02:41:51] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: I noticed a big change when I moved off-grid for several reasons because when you’re talking about the chain of custody, when you’re looking at electricity when you’re looking at the water when it’s coming into your house, where did it go through? What chain of custody did it go through? How many households did that electricity go through? How many households did the water go through? How many different way lines did it go through to get to your house? So based on that, how much anger, how much frustration, how much toxins, pollutants, and all that is going into the water, into the electricity?

Here, in my house, I have a well that’s 800 feet down. I know exactly the source of where that water is. So there’s my custody right there, it’s right from the well itself. There are no other pipes it’s gone through, through the city, or anything like that. It’s come straight from the earth. So that water is so healing.

 

[02:42:45] Ashley James: There are no pharmaceuticals in your water. And because your water actually is so deep and under pressure, it’s likely that it’s structured water. I’ve had an interview about structured water.

 

[02:42:54] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: It’s got minerals, absolutely fabulous minerals.

 

[02:42:57] Ashley James: So good. I love well water, I just love it.

 

[02:42:59] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: So when people come to my clinic, they don’t get water from the city, they get water from my house. I take in a gallon jug of water every day with my freshwater that people get to drink when they come to my clinic because I want them to have my live water. It’s fabulous water. The same with electricity. I know where it’s coming from. It’s coming from my solar panel. It’s fabulous. It feels good. That’s another topic.

 

[02:43:22] Ashley James: Well it is, it totally is. I have a whole interview, I have several actually but one specifically of I think it’s like a Ph.D. in electrical engineering. He talks about how most houses have dirty energy because of the grid. It’s not aligned correctly, and the transformer in your neighborhood is not aligned correctly. If a home is not wired correctly, it actually goes back as a feedback loop and affects the rest of the grid. So it’s very rare to have a house that doesn’t have dirty electricity. It’s very rare to have a clean where the electricity is at a frequency that is normal and healthy and within healthy ranges.

His clientele, he goes and he helps. There are certain things he can do with someone’s house, and sometimes it takes replacing a transformer. But most of the time, there are things he can do within that home in the wiring to make the electricity clean.

There’s so much when it comes to health, and we always like to go down these rabbit holes. But basically, get back to nature as much as possible. One thing at a time. I don’t want to overwhelm people. One thing at a time. Choose something to do today to love yourself and keep doing it.

 

[02:44:37] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Yup, and what’s the trigger.

 

[02:44:38] Ashley James: Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming to the show. As always, it’s been such a pleasure.

 

[02:44:44] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Thank you, Ashley. I always love our conversations. Like you said, they always go down a rabbit hole but that rabbit hole’s wide and big.

 

[02:44:54] Ashley James: And we all fit in it together.

 

[02:44:57] Dr. Vienna Lafrenz: Lots of topics, lots of topics. So thank you.

 

 

Get Connected with Dr. Vienna Lafrenz

Website

Facebook – Dr. Vienna Lafrenz

 

Book by Dr. Vienna Lafrenz

WakeUp: Miracles of Healing around the World

 

Recommended Reading by Dr. Vienna Lafrenz

Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself by Dr. Joe Dispenza

Feb 10, 2021

Become a Certified Health Coach Through IIN just like Ashley James! Get their Valentines Day Special! Experience a free sample of their program: learntruehealth.com/coach

Dr. Bradley Nelson's websites:

http://www.discoverhealing.com
http://www.drbradleynelson.com
http://www.emotioncodegift.com

 

The Emotion Code by Dr. Bradley Nelson

https://www.learntruehealth.com/the-emotion-code-by-dr-bradley-nelson

 

Highlights:

  • What is the Emotion Code
  • What is the Heart-Wall
  • Trapped emotions can accumulate in one area and cause pain
  • The Emotion Code can be used on humans as well as animals

 

We all have emotional baggage but does yours cause you physical pain? In this episode, Dr. Bradley Nelson talks about the Emotion Code and how it can help release trapped emotions and alleviate the pain that is caused by emotional baggage.

Intro:

Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. I am so thrilled that you’re here today to learn from Dr. Bradley Nelson and his Emotion Code, how you can heal physical illness through healing the emotional body. He has just thousands upon thousands upon thousands of testimonials on his website. You can check out hundreds of thousands of people around the world that have had amazing results, so you’re going to love today’s interview.

Now, I got to tell you about a special that’s happening right now. If you’ve been a listener for a while, you’ve heard me talk about the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. That’s the online health coach program that I took to become a health coach. It’s either a six-month program if you’re a full-time student. Or if you’re like me you’re a busy mom or dad or just busy with school or career and you just want to be able to become a health coach but fit it into your very busy life, then you would take their year-long program.

It adds up to about 20 minutes a day of videos and audios, and over the course of that, you learn over 100 dietary theories. But more importantly, they teach you how to be an amazing health coach from the standpoint of counseling, of that emotional side of health coaching because really, everyone knows to drink more water, go to sleep early, but why don’t we, right? What’s going on there? You teach your clients how to create new healthy habits that stick and how to go through the emotions to get to the point where you’ve increased their joy and vitality in every area of their life, and that’s something that IIN will teach you how to do as a health coach.

Now, I was surprised to find out because I’ve interviewed the CEO and also the founder of the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. It was very interesting for me to find out that about half the students take their year-long health coach training program just for their own personal growth because the program offers so much more personal growth. So if you want to become a health coach just for your personal growth you can absolutely do that by going to IIN, or if you want to become a health coach, you can also go to IIN. They’re having a great sale right now for the month of February, so you’re going to want to call them and check it out.

They already offer a great discount for my Learn True Health listeners. So when you call IIN, just mention my name, Ashley James, and Learn True Health podcast. But right now they’re giving my listeners an even better deal for Valentine’s day. And of course, isn’t that so appropriate? This month we’re all focusing on the energy and vitality of love, just bringing in more love and joy into our life and focusing it on maybe a bit of that romantic love. But also the familial love, the love for friends and family, especially the love you have for yourself, so let’s do some self-care.

If you want a free module from IIN, you can go to learntruehealth.com/coach. That’s learntruehealth.com/coach and check it out. If you want to learn more, just give them a call. Just google IIN. Their phone number comes right up, and those who answer have actually been through the program so they can help you.

Awesome. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about. Let’s help as many people as possible to learn true health.

 

[00:03:21] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 455. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have with us Dr. Bradley Nelson. I absolutely am thrilled to introduce you to his technique, and you should get his book The Emotion Code. You can also go to one of his websites, which is emotioncodegift.com and he gives you some great free goodies. Dr. Bradley, I’m really excited to have you on the show because in so many cases I’ve seen where people can heal their body on the physical level when addressing emotional blockages. And when going in and healing things on an emotional, mental, and even spiritual and energetic, everything comes back online. The vitality of the body and the joy comes back online.

I’ve seen so many people with chronic pain when they address the emotional side of their chronic pain, even though for years they’ve been going to chiropractors, getting acupuncture, or maybe even getting injections of some kind of steroid. But when they address the emotions, the pain went away and it’s absolutely fascinating. 

I even had a woman on the show recently talk about her Ph.D. thesis was scanning people’s brains while they did emotional work and saw that the pain would actually leave the body. She could see it in the brain, and that sometimes, that chronic pain was in the emotional centers. It lived in the emotional centers of the brain, and how fascinating is that? And this is something that you specialize in is helping people to heal on the emotional level like we should be focusing on.

We focus on healing the body physically, we should be focusing that much effort if not more effort on making sure we’re healthy emotionally. I’m thrilled that today you’re going to teach us more about your technique, the Emotion Code. Welcome to the show.

 

[00:05:23] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, thank you, Ashley. It’s really great to be here.

 

[00:05:26] Ashley James: Absolutely. Now, you have this really fascinating story that led you—both personally and professionally—to where you are today. I would love for you to share with our listeners so they can fully understand what happened in your life that had you become the healer you are today.

 

[00:05:42] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, it really started when I was seven years old I was really sick with the measles, and I’d overheard my parents talking. I knew that the plan was I was going into the hospital the next day and I was going into something called an oxygen tent. You know how it is when you’re a kid and you overhear your parents and they don’t think that you’re listening, but you are. So I knew the plan.

That night, I was lying on the couch. My parents had made a bed for me on the couch so that I could be near their room. I’m lying there on the couch just feeling really sick, and everyone else has gone to bed. My parents came into the room and my mother said to my father, “Honey, will you kneel down with me and say a prayer for our boy here so that he’ll be able to get well,” and so they did. Knowing my dad, I’m sure it was probably the first time that I ever heard my dad pray. My dad was a really great guy but he just was very private in that way. 

Anyway, here they are, they’re kneeling down by the side of the couch. My dad is praying for me that I’ll be able to get well, and in the middle of this prayer, I had this unbelievable thing that happened. It started at the top of my head and it went whoosh through my body to the soles of my feet, and I was healed just instantly.

Now to go from being really sick one moment to being completely well in the next moment is just so bizarre, so impossible, and so unforgettable that I remember that like it happened yesterday after all those years. So I held my tongue until my dad was done praying, which didn’t take long. When he was done I said, “I’m better. I’m totally better. I’m totally better.” And they said, “That’s fine, go back to sleep. Tomorrow you’re going into the oxygen tent.” But the next day proved it. I was totally well.

So I filed that away. What I learned from that experience was that there is a higher power that we can draw upon, that higher power goes by different names, and I don’t think that it really matters too much. I think that we all have that capacity that we can ask for help from that invisible higher power, so that’s what I learned.

Fast forward about another seven years, things tend to run in those seven-year cycles, right? I started having these pains in my back that were so extreme they’d come out of nowhere and they would take my breath away or put me on the ground. I mean, it was like being stabbed with a knife or being run through with a sword or something. It was really extreme. My parents took me to the hospital and they ran all these tests on me. My parents were told that I had kidney disease, that it was about 50% fatal I found out years later from my mother, and that they had nothing to offer. There was no medical treatment, and my parents were told that my kidneys were either going to survive or not. If they didn’t survive, I wasn’t going to survive basically because they didn’t do kidney transplants back then. It was a long time ago.

My parents decided that they would take me to see some alternative doctors, some holistic doctors. Now, these doctors were actually a couple of old-time osteopathic doctors. If you go to an osteopath nowadays, in most cases it’s like going to a medical doctor. They prescribe books and so on, and there are some of them who still do some of the things that the old-time osteopathic doctors used to do. Their profession was a lot like chiropractic is now back in those days.

What happened was I think in the early 1960s or maybe the late ‘50s, the medical profession basically came to the osteopathic profession and said, look why don’t you just join us and we’ll make you like us and you can prescribe drugs and so on, and so they did. But these two, it was a man and a woman and I never really knew for sure, but I think they were kind of fond of each other. They may have a relationship, I never knew. They stayed out and didn’t want to have anything to do with becoming allopathic medical doctors, and so they stayed out of it. 

They practiced out on the edge of town in a wheat field in a trailer house. I remember sometimes going there and there would be a busload of people that would just be leaving. People in other states would charter buses and come out and have treatments from these people. They were really really amazing people, really great healers. Dr. Alan Baine and Dr. Ida Harmon were their names.

So my folks took me to see these people. I can remember scraping the mud off my shoes trying to get into their trailer, and it was such a different experience from being in this big multi-million dollar clinic where they ran all these tests, where they couldn’t help me, they had nothing to offer. These people started working on me and right away I started feeling better. The pains right away were less severe, less frequent. And within about a month, I had pretty much forgotten that I’d never been sick. My parents took me back to the hospital and they ran all the tests on me, and as I recall they ran the tests twice. They said, “Well, that’s a spontaneous remission. Whatever we did must have helped.”

I was only 13 years old, but I wasn’t stupid. I knew that these people had actually helped me. So I decided at that time this is what I want to do with my life. I want to be a healer, and if I need to practice out on the edge of town in the middle of a wheat field in a trailer house, hey, that’s fine with me. Because those doctors seemed to know what was going on with me, and they seemed to know what I was doing. As far as I knew at age 13, doctors that were found in trailer houses out in wheat fields on the edge of town that seemed to be their natural habitat of doctors got results.

 

[00:12:25] Ashley James: Man, I want to see a doctor in a treehouse. Just imagine what they could do for you.

 

[00:12:33] Dr. Bradley Nelson: I did see a doctor in a treehouse once. It was in Hawaii. I’d hurt my back and found a chiropractor. I remember I was waiting in his office and it was on the north shore of Oahu. He actually climbed up the tree and then all of a sudden hopped into the open window from the tree into the waiting room. I thought, okay, I’m in the right place.

 

[00:13:01] Ashley James: This is my doctor.

 

[00:13:05] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Exactly.

 

[00:13:06] Ashley James: What kind of things did the osteopaths do to you? I mean, I’m imagining some form of almost like osteopathic or chiropractic adjustments, but what else did they do to help you heal your body so that your kidneys functioned again?

 

[00:13:22] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, mainly they were realigning my spine and they ultimately ended up giving me various different kinds of potions and concoctions that they had put together. But that’s mainly what it was back then. I had misalignments going on in my spine that were interfering with the communication between my brain and my kidneys that weakened my kidneys. They started realigning things for me. It was amazing how well it worked. I mean, really, the change in my body was something that was very obvious to me, something that I could really feel. That’s what happened back then.

So then, time went on and in 1980, I spent a semester at Brigham Young University Hawaii campus, which is in Laie on the North Shore of Oahu. That’s how I met that chiropractor that came in through the window. Anyway, I took a class in computer programming, and man, that was just something that I just immediately took over my life—computer programming. I became a computer programmer, and as time went on, I used to do consulting. 

I had a business, I called myself the Computer Tutor, which I thought was really clever. Back in the early ‘80s when people would buy computers for their business and they’d have absolutely no idea what to do with it. It would just sit there. They’d hire me to come in and look at the business, program things, and get things set up. So that’s what I did, and I really, really loved that. There was something about computers that appealed to the perfectionist in me. If I wrote a program and it wasn’t actually perfect, it wouldn’t work. That had a great appeal.

So what happened was time went on. At the time, I was going to Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah eventually and studying various different things. But I was about six months away from going into the MBA program to get my Master’s in Business, and I had decided that’s the direction I was going to go. I had this dream of going into the healing arts years before, but I kind of lost sight of that.

So my wife and I went back to Montana where I’m from and we were sitting around with my folks. It was Christmas time 1983. Out of the blue, my dad said to me, “Are you sure that you don’t want to go to chiropractic school because it seems like such a great career and you’ve always wanted to do it?” I said, “No, I’m going this other direction.” And he said, “Well, why don’t you think about it one more time?” So I said, “Okay.”

So my wife and I made up a pro and con list, on the one hand getting an MBA and going to work for some big company, and then on the other side going into the healing arts. If you’ve ever done a prone con list like that, I mean, there were appealing things on both sides, and doing that exercise didn’t really help me. But having learned years before that there’s a higher power that you can draw upon, that night I got on my knees and I prayed. I just said, “Father in heaven, if you have anything to say about this, help me to know what to do because I’m kind of in the middle of the fence now. I could go either way and be happy.”

So that night I was awakened three different times. When I would wake up it would almost be like I’d been having a dream, but it was an unremembered dream. I would wake up and my mind would be full of all these thoughts of how great it is to be able to help people naturally, heal people naturally, serve people, and so on. I would think, well, yeah. That’s true. But then, on the other hand, the computers and then I’d fall back asleep. That happened three times that night, so I’m still not convinced the next day and still don’t know what to do.

So that night I’m on my knees again and I’m praying and asking God can help me to figure this out because I still don’t know what to do—kind of thick-headed, apparently. That night, the second night, I had this experience where I was awakened again three different times like the night before, but on the second night, each time that I was awakened, the thoughts that I had when I was awakened, the feelings that I had were—if you can imagine—really exponentially more powerful each time. So that on the second night on the third time that I was awakened it was overwhelming at the thoughts of service to mankind, humanity, and the whole planet. I mean, it was absolutely overwhelming. And right then, I heard a voice that spoke to me as clearly as I’m speaking to you right now, Ashley, and it said, “This is a sacred calling.” And I thought, okay, I get it. Thank you. So that was it. I never looked back.

When I got into practice I figured well, God’s gotten me into this, maybe he’ll help me now. So I developed this habit, and the habit was that before I would go to work on someone I would just take a moment and just ask for help. I just say, “Father in heaven, please help me to help this person. Help me to know what they need in Jesus name, Amen,” basically like that. And it was a totally private, totally personal habit. Nobody ever knew that I was saying a prayer for them, but I was, and it was just a momentary pause really. But I’ll tell you something. I absolutely know for a fact that that higher power—whether you refer to it as God, Father, Jesus, the Creator, source energy, or whatever you want to call—is real, knows what we’re doing, and is aware of our lives.

There were times back then when somebody would come in to see me and I didn’t know sometimes what to do. I didn’t know how to approach this problem, I didn’t know what to do, didn’t know how to help this person. And in response to that silent prayer, the information that I needed would just flood into me like an avalanche of understanding. Sometimes it would be a totally different way of looking at things than I’d ever either ever considered before, and that nobody else had ever considered before either.

So basically, I was in practice for 17 years in a brick and mortar practice and for about another two and a half years in a distance practice. I had that habit all those years and nobody ever knew it was a totally private thing. Now I teach it as part of what I teach to people how to use the Emotion Code, how to use the body code. It’s part of what you do and what we teach people all over the world that it’s an important thing. Whatever you believe, it’s not a denominational thing. It’s just that if you believe in a higher power, well then, you’d be silly not to ask for help because you can get it. It’s available for the asking.

So one of the most powerful things that I learned during those years was that all of my patients—no matter how old or young they were, no matter what they were suffering from, whether they were dealing with migraine headaches, neck pain, back pain, knee pain, infertility, asthma, digestive problems, depression, anxiety, phobias, panic attacks, PTSD, eating disorders, or self-sabotage of some kind—I saw the gamut. All of those people had something in common, and it was that they were suffering from what you might call emotional baggage. 

We use that phrase emotional baggage, right? And we usually use it in reference to somebody else. We usually say things like, that guy’s really got a lot of emotional baggage, and it’s true. The thing is we all have emotional baggage, but what I learned is that our emotional baggage is actually a real thing. That our emotional baggage is a lot more concrete than we have ever thought. To understand how this works, you have to understand what the body really is. 

If you look at your hand, for example, that hand looks pretty solid. You can slap it down on your desk. It makes a nice thunk sound. But if you were to put your hand under a big microscope like say an electron microscope, and if you were to keep zooming in and zooming in and magnifying your hand more and more and more, pretty soon you’d be looking at cells, then pretty soon you’d be looking at this parts of the cell, then pretty soon you’d be looking at the DNA, and then pretty soon you’d be looking at individual molecules. At somewhere between a million and maybe 850 million times magnification, eventually, you’re looking face to face at a single individual atom. If you keep magnifying a little more, you see inside the atom. There’s really nothing in there. It’s empty space. Our bodies are pure energy.

Now, we think of energy and we think of the matter, and we think that they’re different, but they’re really not. Albert Einstein said that there really is no matter. That all that matter is energy that has had its vibrations slowed down enough to a point that we’re actually able to perceive it. And so that’s what our bodies are. Our bodies are made of pure energy. 

Some quantum physicists actually figured out recently that because our bodies are energy, you could easily put all 7.8 billion people on earth into a little box the size of a sugar cube and there would be room for even more. That is if you could take all of the empty space out of these bodies of ours.

It’s a strange thing really, our existence and these bodies of ours. That they are really more of a force field than anything else. But if you talk to any quantum physicist, they’ll all tell you that that is absolutely the truth about our existence, which is hard for us to wrap our heads around but that’s the truth of our reality, the truth of our existence.

So anyway, sometimes we feel intense emotions. Sometimes our parents are arguing, we’re little, and we’re crying ourselves to sleep at night. Sometimes we’re in high school, we go through a breakup, and it’s devastating. Sometimes somebody close to us dies or is sick, or sometimes we have a bad job. I mean, who knows. We have all kinds of things that go on, and we experience all kinds of emotions, and emotions are a tremendous gift. If we didn’t have emotions, I don’t think our lives wouldn’t be worth living. I think our life would just be a flat line.

So we have these emotions, and we have positive ones like joy, happiness, and so on, but we also have negative ones. It’s the negative ones that tend to cause trouble for us. Think about a time in your own life when you were really upset about something. Maybe it wasn’t that long ago. Maybe it was today. Maybe it was last week. Were there things that you went through in your life that was difficult? Did you ever cry yourself to sleep at night, were you ever abused, or did you ever go through anything that was difficult to bear? The reality of it is the vast majority of people, with few exceptions, have gone through emotionally difficult things.

Now, the problem is when you’re feeling an intense emotion of anger or maybe it’s resentment, frustration, grief, or sadness—whatever it might be. When you’re feeling an emotion like that, if you’re feeling it powerfully enough, your whole being—that whole energy field that is who you are—can be resonating and vibrating with that particular frequency. Sometimes what happens is that emotion can be too powerful, and it can actually then become lodged in the body, and this is emotional baggage. We refer to this as trapped emotions.

A trapped emotion is a ball of energy that is from about the size of a baseball to about the size of a softball, and these become lodged in the body. They can lodge anywhere in the body, and then they will cause a couple of different effects. They will cause physical effects. Pain is one of the big effects that they tend to cause. Again, when I was in practice and I had all kinds of people suffering from all kinds of different problems, I found that emotional baggage or trapped emotional energies were often at the root of all of these problems.

So to give you an idea of how this can work, there was a man that came in to see me many years ago. He had really severe low back pain. It was a 9 on a 0-10 scale, he said. He rated himself. If it’s a 10 you go to the ER and he was a 9. He was in a lot of pain, and I tested him using the Emotion Code. And with the Emotion Code, what we’re able to do is we’re able to very simply, very easily tap into the subconscious mind. 

The subconscious mind is where all the good information is. It’s the part of you that is keeping track of everything that’s ever happened to you in your life. It’s the part of you that remembers everything you’ve ever done, every face you’ve ever seen in a crowd, everything you’ve ever eaten, tasted, touched, or smelled. All the emotional energies that have gotten trapped in your body.

I’m testing him and I find he has trapped emotion, the emotion is anger. Testing a little bit further, I found this had occurred about 20 years before, and he immediately spoke up and remembered what had happened. He said it was a work situation. He had been falsely accused of something and was really angry about it. That was the emotion, that was what created this trapped emotional energy in his body. So I released that trapped emotion, and his pain level went from a nine to a zero in the snap of a finger, boom. It was gone. It was unbelievable. He kept bending over, walking around in my office, twisting this way that way, and exclaiming he couldn’t believe it. It was like a miracle really, and I was grateful that it worked so well. Why did that happen?

There are two parts really to this story, but the first part is the pain relief that this guy got. Why did that happen? Well, you see, when you have a trapped emotion, it literally is a ball of emotional energy. What it’s doing is it’s residing somewhere in your body, and it’s distorting the normal energy field of your body. When the normal energy field of your body is distorted, that’s all your body is ultimately an energy field. This guy had a trapped emotion of anger. It was in his low back, and after 20 years of having all of those tissues distorted by that anger energy, eventually, it was causing severe pain. With the release of that trapped emotion, the pain was gone because that distorting force that that emotion was creating in those tissues suddenly was gone.

Well, the story didn’t end there. A couple of days later he came back in to see me for a follow-up visit. He said to me, “My back pain is still gone. I still can’t quite believe it, but I have to tell you something. When I came here I had another problem that I didn’t tell you about. For as long as I can remember, I’ve basically been what you would call a rage-a-holic. I’m always yelling at my wife and my kids. I’ve got to watch road rage. I’ve been to anger management several times, it hasn’t really helped me. I’m just an angry person. I’m just kind of on edge all the time. 

Since you worked on me and you released that emotion of anger, I feel really different. Things that would set me off before don’t set me off now. I feel kind of relaxed and I feel a certain level of peace. How did you do that? How does that work?” At the time I said, “Well, I really don’t know. I just work here.” But here’s what we believe, okay. Think about this, and this is I believe the actual truth about emotional baggage. 

This guy’s got this ball of energy, this ball of anger in his low back, which seems very strange but I’m telling you that’s how this works. It’s distorting the energy field in his low back until eventually, it’s bad enough that he comes to see me. But overall of those 20 years, it has altered his personality because when a situation would come along in his life where he might tend to become angry, he would become angry much more readily, much more easily. Why? Because part of his body is feeling that emotion of anger 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

You see, every emotion is a frequency, it’s an energy, and it’s a particular vibration. Because part of his body was already vibrating at that frequency—that vibration of anger—it was easy for him to fall into that resonance. That’s why after 20 years, he believed that he was an angry person until that trapped emotion was released. 

That’s a great example you see of what our emotional baggage does to us and how it affects us. It’s such an incredible thing. Sometimes people have physical injuries that leave them with pain for years and years and years, and by removing their emotional baggage, sometimes that just disappears even though it was a physical injury in the beginning.

In fact, just a couple of days ago—we post a new testimonial every day on our site. We have far too many that we can actually post. Our site is at discoverhealing.com, by the way. I’m looking at our site and there’s a testimonial I want to share with you. 

This was from February 2nd this year. A woman named Sabrina from Valbonne in France said, “Twenty years ago, I had a big car accident with two whiplashes in a row. It was very painful and for years I had substantial neck problems and vertigo. The agony became worse over the years and, because I had children, I could not get any rest. Eventually, five years ago, my body collapsed with neuralgia and I had to stay in bed for days.” Neuralgia is nerve pain. “The pain was so intense that I went to see several doctors and chiropractors, but it did not help very much. Sometimes it was so excruciating that they could not even touch me.

Then I heard of the Emotion Code and it was like a miracle. I healed myself! Today I can play tennis, run, look after my kids, and work once again. This method saved my life! Many thanks! I want to share it with everyone who is in pain because I know how much things can improve!”

There’s a great example of that, right? Somebody who had a really bad car accident 20 years ago and using the Emotion Code on herself she was able to, apparently, get out of pain. She says it saved her life.

 

[00:34:35] Ashley James: I’d be curious to know—and maybe you wouldn’t know maybe from her but from others—was the trapped emotion about the car accident or did she create the car accidents because of a trapped emotion? The reason why I bring that up is one of my past mentors was getting in a series of fender benders until she realized that she was creating them. It was other people hating her, but there were so many. It was like 12 of them. So many of them that she realized because she was very spiritual and did a lot of emotional work herself—master practitioner and trainer of neuro-linguistic programming. She saw in herself when she went back and went okay, why am I creating this? What’s my belief system? What’s going on.

She realized that she was creating them because of the emotional distress she was having around her job and how much her unconscious was fighting her because it was completely going against her value system. Staying in that job was going against every fiber of her being but she kept shoulding herself like golden handcuffs, like I should stay here. So she was creating these disruptions to basically not go to work, but there’s a lot of emotions around her work, around feeling neglected and abused. So she had to work on that, get away from the job, work on the emotion, and then she stopped creating car accidents.

But she thought isn’t this interesting that some people—if you get out of victim mode in life right, and I really always have to preface this when I talk about being victim versus being at cause. I’m in no way saying that rape victims created it for themselves. This is just an exercise, it’s a mental exercise. 

But if you can take on the mental exercise of being at cause in your world versus being a victim of things that have happened to you, then from the standpoint of being at cause you can go, so why did I create that? And not for blame but more for what’s going on at the unconscious level that I put myself in this position to be in this accident? Even if someone else hit me, what’s going on? Can I own this from the standpoint of what can I learn from it? How can I grow from this and what is there for me to learn here? Is there something that happened in my life that had me put myself in this situation? 

Because all of our conscious and unconscious choices have led us to where we are today. And so if we own them and then we can learn from them, then we can look back and go, oh maybe this is connected to the emotions that were happening, the turmoil, or the unresolved issues that were happening prior to the accident.

I just wonder if in her situation, if she couldn’t heal fully from the neck pain because of emotions that created during the accident like feeling the injustice of being in a bad accident, or was it that she was having issues with motherhood, with her husband—whatever dissatisfaction in her life, whatever stuff was happening before the accident, still her body was holding on to that pain from the injury for years later because she hadn’t worked on it.

So I would just be interested to know what is the root cause? In a lot of cases, when it comes to an injury that lasts for years, is the root cause prior to the injury oftentimes, or is it the emotions from that injury itself? 

 

[00:38:19] Dr. Bradley Nelson: It depends. If I had to bet, I would say that probably there was some emotional baggage that helped to precipitate the accident. When we have trapped emotions, what they do is they send out—they’re continually broadcasting their vibration out into the universe. And so then that tends to draw things to us that tend to create more of that.

The other thing that happens is when you have an injury—the intense emotional experiences that you go through after that for years or decades—will often tend to become trapped in that area and make the distortion worse. A great example of this is a guy that I worked with many years ago. This guy came into my office, his name was Steve and he came in with his wife. He had a really severe tennis elbow. I mean, his arm was in a sling and he couldn’t turn the keys to start his car. It was so excruciating. I was barely able to touch the area, there was so much pain there.

So I started working with him and doing the normal chiropractic things and I wasn’t having too much success with it. So at the time, I was just learning about the emotional side of this, I was learning about trapped emotions. So I asked his subconscious mind, and we use muscle testing different types to get answers from the subconscious, and it’s all taught. We teach it very clearly in the Emotion Code book

So I asked his subconscious mind, is there a trapped emotion that is contributing to this tennis elbow? And the answer immediately was yes. What I found was that he had a number of trapped emotions that had become lodged in that area of his elbow during the years that he was in high school. Now he was about 42 years old when I was seeing him. So he’d been out of high school for a long time, but it was funny because every trapped emotion had to do with a girl who had basically rejected him. 

It was so funny because his wife was sitting there, and I’m muscle testing him and he’s saying, “Well, let’s see. Was it Sheila?” His arm would go down, “No, okay. Was it Cheryl? No. Shawna? Oh, yeah. That one’s strong. Yeah, Shawna. Yeah, she dumped me.” And so it was all these trapped emotions about that.

Here’s the thing, he was on the tennis team in high school. So what’s happening is as he’s dating these girls and they’re rejecting him, he’s also playing tennis and he’s incurring micro-trauma to those muscles that are being used the most. So that’s where the trapped emotions would lodge. The interesting thing about it is I think there were six different trapped emotions that needed to be released. The story’s in the book actually. It was so funny. 

But the amazing thing really is that every time we’d release a trapped emotion, the pain level would just instantly drop. The pain level just kept dropping and dropping and dropping with the release of each trapped emotion until finally, we cleared the last trapped emotion and the pain was completely, completely gone. He couldn’t believe it. He took the sling off and he’s moving his arm around. I could go in and I could press deeply into those muscles, there was no pain anymore. I remember that was the first time that I had seen this phenomenon where you can have more than one trapped emotion in one place.

But that was a great example to me of how trapped emotions can accumulate in an area and can eventually cause just extreme pain. What we find now is that about 90% of all the physical pain that people have is actually due to their emotional baggage to trapped emotions. We’ve got almost 7,000 practitioners of the Emotion Code now in 80 countries around the world, and we’re all finding the same thing. That if you’re in pain, there’s a very high probability that that pain is actually due to some emotional baggage. It’s actually really simple.

 

[00:43:02] Ashley James: Absolutely. I’m a master practitioner of neuro-linguistic programming timeline therapy and hypnosis. Back in 2005, my mentors were enamored with the book Healing Back Pain.

 

[00:43:22] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Oh yeah, by Dr. Sarno.

 

[00:43:24] Ashley James: Yes, Sarno. So what he discovered—unfortunately, he has passed away. I tried to get him on the show but he had passed away. Well, he was working, and I don’t think he was a medical doctor. I mean, this was back in 2005 I read the book. But he was doing work with hospitals and looking at the records and more administration work, looking at all the administration stuff seeing that all these back surgeries these patients were still having pain. Oh, we got rid of their bulging disc. We surgically removed it. Why do they still have pain? Why are they still on disability? Why are they still on these drugs?

So he started to look at stuff and found that—I can’t remember the statistic right now, I wish I could remember off top of my head, but it was so crazy something like 70% of all the MRIs they do, there’s some form of a bulging disc and yet people are asymptomatic. He’s like, how can we have someone who has a bulging disc that has no pain, but when people have pain in their back we always assume it’s a bulging disc. So we do these scans, then we blame the disc, and then we remove the disc, but they still have pain so it’s not the disc. So what is it?

And then he just dove in like you did, figuring it out. What he saw was that there was ischemia, which is a cutoff of blood flow to the muscles when there was an emotion withheld. So I had a client come to me, this was 2006. So still, a long time ago. She was a long-distance runner, she was in a lot of pain, she was very fit, and she was in her 50s closing in on her 60s. 

She said, “I’m on Tylenol—three every day—and I really don’t want to be on it because it’s not exactly good for you.” I started talking to her. I was like, “Well, how long have you had the pain?” She’s like, “Oh, you know a few years maybe four or six years.” And as we kept going back in her history, it’s like her brain couldn’t fully accept or remember. It actually had been more like 15 years that she had been in pain and been on these drugs. She’s like, “Oh wow, I didn’t realize how much time had passed.”

I got to the root cause because guilt kept coming up as we talked, and what we figured out was she’s catholic and she had an abortion. She felt so guilty about it and she said to herself, “I have to pay for this guilt with pain.” She actually said that. She wouldn’t allow the doctor to give her pain medicine during her abortion, and she said, “I have to pay for it with pain.” And she did, but what was interesting because I was also in Canada, I was a registered massage therapist and worked in sports rehab, in sports medicine. 

Before we started our session I said, “Can I palpate your back?” because she was pointing towards the quadratus lumborum on the left side, and I palpated. On the left side, it was hard as a rock ice cold. Now, this was in Florida. I was living in Florida at the time. I mean, it’s warm. On the right side, it’s flush, it’s a very good color, it’s warm and palpable. But on the left side, it’s like I’m touching granite. I thought this was interesting. This is ischemia. The whole muscle is just not letting any blood flow in, and that’s incredibly painful. Of course, when bands of muscle cause ischemia around the innervation of the nerve, it will create just incredible pain. Sometimes the pain will travel to different areas, but it’s very painful.

As she gets into talking about guilt, the pain goes up. I keep asking her where is your pain level? Now, I mean, my session with her was like six hours long. Sounds like your session would have been like six minutes. Your program sounds like maybe it’s more effective in that it sounds a lot quicker. But by the end of it, we released the negative emotion of guilt at the root level. I said, “Where’s your pain?” and I’m kind of expecting it to be less. She’s like, “It’s gone. It’s gone.” She’s like jumping up and down. She’s like, “How is it gone? How is it gone?”

So she goes back to her hotel room and I didn’t tell her to do this because I’m not a doctor, but she flushed all of her meds down the toilet. She was on three meds, one of them was an anti-anxiety med. She came to me the next day she’s like, “I took myself off all my meds. I’m not on the pain meds. I’m not on the anti-inflammatory meds. I’m not on the anxiety meds. I feel like a million bucks. I feel amazing.” And her pain was still gone. “Can I touch your back?” and her back on both sides were warm and palpable. 

That was the most amazing thing for me to see that someone physically that their muscles that were holding—I mean like you said, the size of a softball or a baseball. Her entire quadratus lumborum, which is quite a big muscle, so bigger than a softball was hard, ischemic, cold, and holding on to guilt for 15 years. That to me just blew my mind. How many people are on meds, emotional medication, and also physical medication, and suppressing and putting a band-aid on and just pushing it down and pushing it down and pushing it down and then poisoning their bodies? And they’re not free of it. 

That affects every area of their life just like one of your clients whose anger spilled over into every area of his life. Her guilt spilled over into every waking moment of her life, so just to be free of that. I’m so excited that people can learn your technique through your book and they can also then train. Can anyone become a practitioner of the Emotion Code?

 

[00:49:23] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Yes, anybody can become a practitioner. There’s really no prerequisites. It’s a simple program. It’s a six-month program, most people do it in about half the time. If you’re interested, there’s more information there—discoverhealing.com is our website.

Listen to this one because it never ceases to amaze me. Here’s one that came in from a guy named Robbi Cuijpers from Posterholt in the Netherlands. This was posted on the third, so today’s the ninth. Anyway, he said, “One night I woke up with a terrible toothache. It was around 2:00 AM and I couldn’t sleep anymore. I was suffering so much I was about to call the emergency desk and go to the hospital. It felt dreadful. Then suddenly the question popped into my head, “Could there possibly be some trapped emotions causing this horrible pain?”

“So, I gathered all the willpower I could find, jumped out of bed, and started sway testing for trapped emotions.” That’s where you stand up and your body will sway forward for yes and backward for no. “And yes, I had some trapped emotions that were causing the tooth pain. With the release of each emotion, my toothache instantly subsided. With the fifth and last emotion released, the pain was practically zero.

I then went to bed feeling on top of the world knowing the power of The Emotion Code.”

 

[00:50:43] Ashley James: That’s amazing. I love it. And the unconscious mind controls all of our muscle movements. I’ve seen that. I’ve seen it where you can ask your unconscious mind questions and it can control the micro muscle movements of a finger or an arm, or like you said, the sway test. If someone is in a wheelchair, there are other ways. You could do it because the unconscious mind controls the muscles of the body. You can communicate with it, which not that many people know. 

I was always afraid of my unconscious mind when I began to study, learn more, and dive into it, and then once I developed a relationship with my unconscious mind, it was actually the most rewarding thing because it’s you, it’s the rest of you. It’s the rest of you and your unconscious mind. It’s just you, it’s just more of you, but it’s the rest of you that loves you. Your unconscious mind adores you, loves you, wants to keep you safe, wants to keep you healthy.

I mean, trying to understand John E. Sarno’s philosophy behind why the unconscious mind creates this ischemic pain? I’m not saying it’s always ischemic pain because like you’ve mentioned it can be injuries and joints and things like that, although I’d love your opinion. I guess the hypothesis is that the unconscious mind wants to resolve these issues and so it’s bringing it to your attention.

 

[00:52:06] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, that’s exactly how I look at it. Yes, the symptoms that we have are really just the subconscious mind trying to get our attention so that we can open a dialogue and figure out what’s really going on. What the underlying cause of our problem really is. What is it that’s unresolved? What do we need to deal with that we’ve never dealt with? I love what you said about the subconscious—that it adores us and it is the rest of us. It’s absolutely so true. That’s what it is.

It’s not just pain. Listen to this one. This is another one. This was posted on February 8th, I guess yesterday. This woman Susan from Utah wrote and she said, “My husband, John, recently went through radiation therapy for prostate cancer. One of the side effects has been a terrible itching that would not stop after his therapy. His radiation doctor said that John could be allergic to something new but didn’t think the medication he had prescribed was doing it. John went to a dermatologist and was told that all older men get dry skin and that was it. I had recently read the Emotion Code and I tried it on his itching. The next day he completely stopped itching! In his eyes, this was a miracle!” You never know. Try it on anything.

 

[00:53:25] Ashley James: Right. Well, the thing is, all day long we have emotions. All-day long we have experiences, and how often do we actually sit back and unpack those experiences, process those emotions, and digest them like you would digest a very healthy meal? It’s like we’re taking care of our bodies, and so many of the people who are listening would sit down and eat a beautiful very nutritious meal, chew each bite until it’s fully digested, and really give themselves, bathe themselves in nutrition. Give themselves the time, the space, and the peace to digest their food because they know nutrition is so important. 

And yet when it comes to our emotions, we treat it like we’re going through the drive-thru and just scarfing it down and not even tasting it and then just throwing it back and expecting our body just to deal with it. Just deal with it. It’s so funny that we’re treating our body like we’re eating fast food when it comes to our emotions, but we take our physical body so seriously and we don’t take our emotional body that seriously.

I also believe there’s a stigma, and it depends on your generation. I see the younger generation. I’m 40 years old. I’m turning 41. Hopefully my mid-life is years to come, but I look at the younger kids and I see that they’re more open to counseling and therapy because there’s not a stigma for them. For the older generations, there was a large stigma around going to counseling. The thing is that working on your emotions is like going to the gym. You’re just going to the gym for your heart and your mind and just find the right trainer. Not every trainer out there is going to be the right trainer for you. Not every counselor is going to be the right counselor for you. 

But I have clients who say that their sessions, working with their therapist have been the most rewarding thing possible because it’s just the place they get to digest, absorb, process, release, let go of, and understand their emotions and how they react. And then they notice that they stop just reacting and spewing onto their family and spewing onto their kids. They actually catch themselves, they take a deep breath, and they’re able to then come from a place of communication that has love and has respect because they processed all the stuff that happened last week, last month, last year instead of just bottling it up and then spewing at people.

This particular idea of sitting down and respecting our emotional and physical body by working with the Emotion Code I think could be so rewarding.

Now back to my question about ischemia, is it always muscles? Is it always ischemic pain, or do you find sometimes there’s bone pain? I know you mentioned that man had tooth pain. That could have also been a referral pain from a trigger point. Do you think it’s always ischemia though, or have you seen it where there’s absolute evidence that it’s not created in a muscle?

 

[00:56:42] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, yes. See the thing about it is trapped emotions can lodge in different areas. They can really lodge anywhere. They can lodge in a specific organ. So the way that we look at it is a little different from Dr. Sarno’s, and I have tremendous respect for what he did and the consciousness that he was able to create for people that this kind of thing goes on. But trapped emotions can lodge in different places. One of the most fascinating things that we see is that they will often form into a wall around the heart to protect the heart from being broken, and we call that a Heart- Wall. That’s one of the most interesting things that we see.

With the Heart-Wall, it’s not necessarily that we see the ischemic pain so much. Although sometimes, people do have that. But there’s a whole another dimension to it. Anciently, the ancient peoples believed that the heart was the seed of the soul, the source of love, the source of romance, the source of creativity, and really the core of our being. Even now, after all these thousands of years, anywhere you go on earth, if it’s Valentine’s day or if someone is romancing you, they’ll give you a box of something tasty that’s probably shaped like a heart. So these are ancient ideas.

I mean, the word heart is mentioned just shy of a thousand times in the bible, for example. There are these scriptures in the bible that say things like God doesn’t look on the outward appearance of a person, instead, he looks on the heart. There’s another one that says that as we think in our hearts, so we will be. In the west, we’ve never really paid much attention to those old ideas because medicine is still very mechanistically oriented, still very rooted in Newtonian physics. So the heart is just a muscle and we know it’s a muscle. It just pumps blood, that’s all it does, and that’s how we’ve looked at it for many, many years.

But in the last 20 years or so, there has been new instrumentation developed, and new studies that have been done that show some amazing things. For example, they found that when one person is feeling love or affection for another person that their heartbeat will become measurable in the brain waves of that other person on an EEG. They found that their heartbeats will synchronize. So there’s this connection going on between all of us that we have not necessarily been aware of.

But what we discovered, what was actually shown to us back in 1998, my wife had a dream. She asked me to help her decipher her dream. As I’m trying to do that, all of a sudden I have this experience that I can only describe as a waking vision where the room that I was in suddenly disappeared and I’m looking instead of this incredibly beautiful hardwood floor with this understanding that my wife’s heart is underneath this floor. 

Now, this is one of the strangest things that I’ve ever experienced, and I don’t take drugs. I don’t even use caffeine anymore. I’m very straight that way. But anyway, this lasted for several minutes. I told my wife what I was seeing and understanding. She didn’t know what it meant either. We prayed, asked God to help us figure this out.

We started muscle testing her, and what we found was that when she was two years old—because she was born into a very volatile, very dysfunctional family—she, at some point around that age, thought her heart was going to break and so she started building a wall around her heart. This wall was literally made from layers of her emotional baggage. So she’d had this wall around her heart all of these years. We asked if we could start removing these, and it took us a couple of weeks to take down this wall one emotion at a time. 

When the last one was removed, all of a sudden, things really shifted for her because for one thing, whatever group of friends that she’d ever been with, she never really truly felt like she belonged anywhere like she was always the odd person out. She always felt kind of expendable until that was removed, then suddenly, she felt like she belonged. The depression, the anxiety that she had to deal with decreased dramatically.

Initially, when we discovered this, it was really shown to us. It’s very much a God thing trying to get this out into the world this understanding. Initially, I thought it was maybe just her, that she was the only person on earth that had this. But what we find now is that about 93% of people have this phenomenon going on, and it’s called a Heart-Wall. 

The most recent testimonial that I have about this—we’ve got about 10,000+ testimonials on our site. We get new ones every single day. We’ll pick one every day and post it. This one came in on February 4th. This is from a woman named Fawn. Apparently, one of our practitioners from Ohio said, “My most meaningful experience using the Emotion Code is with a client named Paul. He is a 70-year-old man who had such a horrific and abusive childhood that he built a Heart-Wall to protect himself. He never married or even had a close relationship. He has had many acquaintances but no close friends.

After our Emotion Code sessions, he is now transformed! He went out and got his motorcycle endorsement at 70! And now he is actively looking for a lady to enjoy it with him. He simply shines! The transformation is the most amazing thing I have ever witnessed.”

Think about this, 93% of people have this phenomenon, this Heart-Wall phenomenon going on. What it does is it interferes with your ability to give and receive love for one thing, but also to really create the life that you want because the best ideas that you’ll ever have are not in your brain, they’re in your heart. And the heart we know now is really a second brain. The heart is filled with gray matter and white matter, it really is a second brain. 

In fact, when scientists a number of years ago looked at the communications along the nerves between the brain and the heart, they found the vast majority of communications were going from the heart to the brain, and they were expecting it to be just the opposite.

What one of the first people that I saw after we worked on my wife with this was a nurse that came in to see me. She was 38 years old, and she came in because she had this terrible neck pain that she’d seen a couple of doctors for—they haven’t been able to help her. As I was talking with her she told me that she was single. She had not dated in eight years and was never going to date again. 

So she’s 38, hasn’t dated in eight years, she’s basically celibate. She was an attractive person. I said, “Well, why do you feel this way? What happened to you?” She said eight years before, she’s really deeply in love with this guy who dumped her and broke her heart. That was it. She hadn’t dated since then. So I tested her and found, sure enough, she had put up a wall around her heart from that breakup. There were three emotions, three layers making up this wall. We cleared those emotions one at a time, and when the last one was gone, instantaneously the neck pain was gone—instantaneously. 

When we see instantaneous pain relief like in this case and like in the case with the guy that I told you about in the beginning that had the anger from 20 years before, I think there’s more going on than just the ischemia. I think if those arteries and veins open up a little bit, it’s going to take a little bit of time for things to shift, but we see instantaneous relief of pain in many cases. That’s what happened to her.

That’s not the end of the story though. She left the office feeling totally fine and didn’t come back for three months. When she came back into my office—I’ll always remember this—she looked great. I said, “Hey, you look great. I haven’t seen you for a while. How are you?” She said, “You know, my neck’s been fine since I was here. You cleared that Heart-Wall for me, that really works. About two weeks after I was here, I found out my childhood sweetheart has been living right around the corner from me for almost eight years. We’re dating and we’re in love, and I think he’s going to ask me to marry him.” Wow, what a shift. Holy smokes.

 

[01:06:04] Ashley James: You got me fascinated when you said that it can manifest in the organs. We often hear anger in the liver and fears in the lungs or the kidneys. If someone has something with their pancreas, an illness with their pancreas because, with type 2 diabetes, it’s not necessarily a pancreatic issue. If someone has a known illness with an organ or like fatty liver disease or they have a traumatic brain injury, have you seen people take something—either acute or chronic—that’s in an organ that’s been labs diagnosed, been tracking it, seeing that yes there’s an injury or there’s a disease state and they worked on the emotions that were there? Have you seen people, their bodies heal to the point where they’ve been able to heal organs?

 

[01:07:16] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Yes. For example, one of the most common examples of that that we see is actually infertility where we find trapped emotions, for example, in the uterus. By removing those trapped emotions [inaudible 01:07:35] conceive. Think about all the different organs. The first thing that you have to understand is that every disease process that people experience has an emotional component every single time. In our experience now, doing this for 32 years, there’s always an emotional component.

If you identify the emotional component and you release that emotional baggage that’s affecting that area, then yes, things turn around. We’ve seen it happen over and over and over, so yes. In fact, trapped emotions can affect very specific parts of the body. For example, you might have a trapped emotion affecting your pineal gland, maybe the hypothalamus, or the pituitary. You might have trapped emotions that are affecting the thyroid gland. See all that this does really is it just removes the encumbrances that are in the body’s way of being able to function like the body wants to.

The body wants to be healthy, it wants to function normally, but when you’ve got emotional baggage, those are encumbrances, those are blockages to really being able to heal and to function normally. In fact, here’s a really dramatic story that I haven’t thought of for many, many years. But in talking about this, it’s reminded me of this.

There was a woman that came in to see us once who had fibromyalgia, which is this pain that you get all over the body that is very difficult, no known cure, and so on. I was able to help her with that, and then she told my wife and I about her daughter. What had happened with her daughter was that her daughter had gotten married about six months before, but her daughter suffered from vaginismus, which is the tightening down of the opening of the vagina. 

She and her husband, still after six months, had not been able to have intercourse. They’d never been able to consummate their marriage. The marriage is starting to show signs of stress, and so she asked if we would look at her daughter. So we did so. Her daughter came in and we checked her. My wife found something that I don’t think we’d ever seen before, and I don’t think we’ve ever seen it since. But this girl had what we ended up calling a vaginal wall. 

So in the sense, if you think about a Heart-Wall, if you feel like your heart is going to break, you’re feeling a physical sensation like there’s an elephant sitting on your chest, or maybe like you can’t breathe. There’s a physical thing going on there. The subconscious mind will put up a wall. The wall is an invisible wall to us, but to the subconscious, it’s very, very real I think. My wife’s Heart-Wall, the symbolic material was wood. She grew up in a house with hardwood floors. 

So the subconscious will always choose some kind of material, and we’ve seen heart wall symbolic materials everything from plastic to glass to iron. But anyway, this young woman had a wall that her subconscious mind had put up in that area of her body to protect herself, and then she told us that she had been sexually abused at some point as a child. So anyway, we cleared the trapped emotions that were creating that, and it was the next day her mom called us and she said, “Guess what? Everything’s working. Thank you.” And in fact, she said, “Her husband is coming home. He’s spending his lunch breaks at home now for a catch-up.”

 

[01:12:02] Ashley James: I had a friend who had that and she had to have surgery. She had surgically had her vaginal opening altered so that she could have intercourse. It’s very interesting that she had the same condition. She spent years doing everything. Obviously, she didn’t learn about the Emotion Code. It would have been a lot easier than having surgery.

 

[01:12:31] Dr. Bradley Nelson: That was their next step really. Their next step is surgery. But luckily, we were able to avoid that.

 

[01:12:37] Ashley James: I’m just going to throw this out there, I like to get weird. What about people who are in a coma who has maybe dementia. Maybe children who are nonverbal autistic or adults who are non-verbal autistic. Is there any way to do this technique with people who can’t clearly communicate with you?

 

[01:13:05] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Oh yes, absolutely. It’s not a problem at all. The reason why is because the subconscious mind never sleeps. So it doesn’t matter. People can be worked on when they’re asleep, when they’re in a coma. In fact, let me tell you a story. This is actually in the Emotion Code book. We have twin boys. My wife and I had seven kids together, and then she had a daughter before we met. So we have a total of eight, but we have twin boys that are 31 years old now. When they were four years old, we thought that one of them had a problem with his hearing because he wouldn’t speak in full sentences. His brother on the other hand was a total chatterbox, but he wouldn’t speak in full sentences. We just didn’t know what was wrong.

So we took him to a hearing specialist thinking maybe he was a little bit deaf, but his hearing was totally fine. At that time, we were really first learning about trapped emotions. So one night, we decided to work on him when he was asleep. Now, in the book, we explain how you do this. It’s a simple process, but we worked on him when he was asleep and we found that he had an inherited trapped emotion of anger from my wife’s father. 

So in other words, when my wife was conceived in the womb, there was emotional energy of anger that was passed from grandpa. When we conceived this little boy of ours, that energy was passed to him. So we cleared that, released that. He’s asleep so we’re working on him when he’s asleep, no problem, subconscious never sleeps. We cleared a couple of other trapped emotions. The next morning at breakfast, guess who will not shut up. My wife and I are just looking at each other like a couple of owls like we just cannot believe what’s happening.

We all have emotional baggage, and getting rid of it is so important. If you think about it, if you’ve got a heart-wall and there’s about a 90% chance that you do, then what that’s doing is it’s interfering with your ability to give and receive love and your ability to really create the life that you want because your best life and the best creative ideas that you have are actually in your heart, are not in your head.

The beautiful thing about the Emotion Code is that it’s really, really simple. Anybody can do it. Kids can do it. We have kids that are having great success with it in different parts of the world. You can learn how to do it yourself, you can use it yourself, use it on your own kids, you can use it on your husband, on your wife, on your children, and so on.

 

[01:16:25] Ashley James: Can you do it with babies?

 

[01:16:27] Dr. Bradley Nelson: You absolutely can do it with babies. You can even do it with babies before they’re even born. When they’re in the womb you can work on them.

 

[01:16:35] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. That is so cool. I’m 32 weeks pregnant so I better start reading. Can you do it with animals?

 

[01:16:42] Dr. Bradley Nelson: You absolutely can do it with animals. In fact, let me see, there was a story that I was just looking at here on our site. Let me see if I can find that really quick.

 

[01:16:56] Ashley James: I consider myself an open-minded skeptic, like a really, really open-minded skeptic. I wouldn’t be prompted to ask that question if I hadn’t had an experience where a friend of mine asked me to do emotional work on her dog and I’m like I’ll try. 

Basically, the dog’s parents are splitting up. The two owners were going their separate ways, and the dog was picking up on the tension and it was a wiener dog. All of a sudden, his back legs stopped working. He became paralyzed, and the vet said this is common with wiener dogs. But there was no trauma. He didn’t fall down, get kicked, or hurt. He didn’t bump himself. He just all of a sudden, his parents are splitting up. There’s tension in the household, and now he isn’t working.

So I sat with him, I held him in my hands, and I just started my heart communicating to his heart. All of that information came flooding to me. I’m like, okay, let’s fill you with love and get you to see that your parents love you. You’re going to be in their lives and you get to have two homes now. They’re going to share. Your parents are getting divorced but you still have them. They’re not leaving you. They’re just leaving each other. The three of us were talking to him and telling him that, and then he got up and started by his tail and his legs worked again. We’re like okay, that works.

I’ve had other people on the show who are healers. One guest of mine helped a horse with her fertility issues. She was having miscarriages basically and this horse wasn’t able to conceive. So he did emotional work with the horse and the horse was able to heal from the emotions of all the sadness from the lost pregnancies. And then the next one worked and she was able to get pregnant. I’m like, okay. You know what, there’s something very interesting going on here. Of course, animals have emotions. If you’ve ever had a cat or dog, you make a connection with them, and there’s more there. There’s love, there’s acceptance, there’s joy. They have some very interesting emotions.

There are so many studies done now where they can actually see that animals have emotions. I’m not doing a debate as to whether they have a soul or not, or whether they go to heaven or not. I mean, those are all very interesting conversations to have. But the fact is that if we as humans can—and we’re animals too—but if we can heal physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, energetically by using the Emotion Code and working on our emotions and healing them, why not animals? I love that you said we can work with babies.

I just imagine the parents who have autistic children who are non-verbal could be doing this with their children. How beautiful is that? Sorry, you had a testimonial about working with animals?

 

[01:19:55] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Oh, right. This one just came in. This is from a woman named Beate in Germany. This came in on the first of February. She said, “Lilly, the dog of a family friend, suddenly no longer wanted to go up the stairs in her home and only managed to do so with a lot of start-up and motivation from her owner. Nothing seemed to be wrong physically. By the time my friend shared this with me, sitting together in a cafe, it had been going on for a long time. So, right there I connected remotely with Lilly the dog, and released a few of her trapped emotions. When my friend got home that afternoon, Lilly ran up the stairs without any complaints. A few days later, when her “fear of stairs” came back, I was able to solve a few more things. Now Lilly has no more problems walking up the stairs.”

And what’s interesting about this one too is that this was done at a distance. Of course, that’s because this is energy medicine really in its purest form. It’s not bound at all by distance, and so that’s a fun one, huh?

 

[01:20:59] Ashley James: Right. When you start studying quantum physics, you realize we’re all in the milieu together. It doesn’t matter if we’re 1,000 miles away or 1 foot away from each other. We have this energetic connection. I just love that. It blew my mind. It completely changed my life. My life took a 180 after I saw the movie What The Bleep Do We Know because I went like oh my gosh. This energy. Stop thinking in terms of chemicals and matter. Think in terms of energy. It’s all about energy. So that just makes total sense that emotions are energy and having them trapped in the body, very interesting.

You lived and went to school in Hawaii for a while. I studied Huna because I thought of the ancient Polynesian technique. I wouldn’t even call it a religion because it was more like their lifestyle. It was how they breathed, how they loved, how they healed, how they fished. Huna was their philosophy for living, and in Huna, there’s a belief. Now, this is hundreds or thousands of years old, who knows, but it’s an ancient Polynesian belief system about living and life.

They believed that emotions would become trapped in the body like black boulders stored in bags inside us. Like if you looked at a river and saw a river with no boulders would be calm, but a river with many boulders would be turbulent. So they had this idea that the more trapped emotions you had, the more the chi was turbulent within you and was thrown off. So I’ve always carried that imagery in my mind. So of course we would want to heal and release these emotions.

Now you’ve talked about getting the book the Emotion Code, but you’ve also talked about this course. Could someone who was very passionate like I am wanting to do this to all their friends and family, let’s say, and themselves and obviously the family being receptive, would the book be enough? Would it suffice, or should someone who really wants to do this technique with their animals, their kids, their husband, and their friends—should they take the course? Who should take the course and who should read the book?

 

[01:23:24] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, the information is definitely in the book. People all over the world are reading the book, putting it into practice, learning how it works. If you really want to master it or if you want to actually charge people for sessions, then we do want you to go through the certification program. The certification program that we have is an online program, and it’s available—you can go to discoverhealing.com. It’s actually on sale right now. It’s not an expensive program. It’s all online. You go through at your own pace. Most people will go through it in about three months, the record is two weeks. It just depends on how motivated you are.

But the nice thing about that is that it gives you rails to run on. I mean, think about it, I know that you’ve done this because I’ve done this and I think so many people have done this where you go to some really great course or something and you buy some materials and then a year later you come across it when they’re still shrink-wrapped. You think, oh yeah, I really wanted to learn that. 

So the certification program gives you some deadlines, enables you to really learn it well, and get a lot of practice. You have a student advisor that helps you and gives you any kind of feedback that you need. But it also is all in the book. I mean, if you want to learn it from the book and use it on your friends, family members, and so on, by all means, go for it. It’s all in there. But if you want that added experience of getting certified, then yeah. If you want to do it for a living, then we want you to do that for sure.

 

[01:25:12] Ashley James: So why specifically? Because we have a lot of health coaches that listen to the show. I’m sure they’re all perked up and already on your site ready to sign up because this would be a great adjunct to health coaching. What is different in the live course that’s from the book? Are you teaching them how to work with people, what to look for, or the precautions? What is it that you get out of the live course that really helps you work with people on a professional level?

 

[01:25:44] Dr. Bradley Nelson: The course, in part, consists of 10 different recordings. They’re basically presentations where I go through with two of our top practitioners that have been doing this for many, many years. We discuss and kind of bounce things off of each other in explaining things. So what we try to do is we try to explain all of it from the very beginning in a way that makes it very easy for everybody to understand. That’s part of it. 

You’ll gain insights from certification that you won’t get from the book. But also, in the certification program, you have homework. Your homework actually is the book itself. We supply the text of the book and the book on audio for you. You’ve got homework and then you work on yourself, and you’re one of the people. There are, I believe, 20 people that you have to work with, but you can count yourself as one of those people. 

As you’re working with people and you’re releasing trapped emotions, you’re recording everything that you’re doing online on our site at discoverhealing.com in the back end at a location that’s just for you for this, and you record all that information. Then as you’re doing that, you do have to work with some animals, you have to totally clear the Heart-Wall from a number of people. What it does is accelerates your ability to do this because it’s like coaching. I mean, nobody really gets to the Olympic level of any sport without having a coach. It’s not possible. 

That’s kind of what this program does. You’re able to see videos of other people doing this and sample sessions that are actually done that our practitioners are doing. You learn how to do this the right way. You learn how to do it better at a distance and so on. And then you’re quizzed on everything. There really is no final exam. You basically pass off each part of it as you go and so each part builds on the next part. But we have lots and lots of people doing it. It’s a great program. We consistently get very, very high 90% feedback from everybody doing it, that it’s a great program.

Anyway, the book itself if you’re just wanting to explore this a little bit maybe, you can go to emotioncodegift.com. There you can download the first couple of chapters of the book for free. We can give you those for free, you can try those out. If you want to get the book, the book’s available on Audible if you want to listen to it, amazon.com of course, Barnes & Noble—are they still in business? I think they are.

 

[01:29:09] Ashley James: Yeah. It’s Borders that went under.

 

[01:29:12] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Borders, yeah. What about B. Dalton? Are they still? I can’t remember.

 

[01:29:14] Ashley James: I was so bummed. Where I lived in Vegas—Henderson, Nevada just off of Stephanie, there was a Barnes & Noble and a Borders practically beside each other. That would be my favorite Saturday afternoon activity. I’d go pour through all of Barnes & Noble and then I’d pour through all the Borders. They would actually have different books depending. I would always go with the self-help, personal growth, and spiritual sections. That was my shtick. It was funny. 

My husband’s and my second date we did that. We went to Barnes & Noble and Borders. I pointed out every book I ever read and he bought every book I ever read. He walked to the register with his hands full. He spent hundreds of dollars, and I looked at him. I’m like this guy listening to me. He’s serious. This guy’s serious. Oh, man. That was cool because he said he was into personal growth but then he was like putting his money where his mouth was. That was pretty hot I’d have to say. But we’ve been married for almost 13 years. I pretty much knew almost instantly that there was something special there. So yeah, I miss Borders.

Barnes & Noble’s around. I still do shop there occasionally. I love that you have an audiobook. I’m absolutely getting your audiobook because I love listening to audiobooks. I’m excited about that. Any listener can listen to your book or read your book and begin to immediately apply these techniques. They don’t have to take the course, but if they want to do it professionally they should take the course because they’re going to get it on a much deeper level.

That is so exciting. While I’ve been interviewing you I’ve made a list of at least 12 friends, clients, and family members that I want them all to get your book. I imagine all the listeners have done the same. No wonder you’re so popular. This is so needed in this world.

Dr. Bradley, I really want to have you back on the show. I’d love for you to continue to dive into this topic and explore it. Today was just to get us an introduction, get our foot in the door, and of course, everyone’s going to go get the book. I’m going to definitely go listen to your book, but I’d love to have you on the show you know after I’ve finished the book, and then maybe we can go deeper a bit into this topic. I know my listeners will absolutely love that, especially since they’re all going to go out and get your book too. And of course, they’re going to go to emotioncodegift.com and get the gift you’re giving out.

Is there anything you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview?

 

[01:31:51] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, I would just say that we’re living in this very unique time of the earth’s history where the world is in this transformational process. To me, it’s almost like the earth is in labor. It’s trying to give birth to this new world where so many of us want it to go. A world where people are living from their heart, and a world that is just so different from the world that we’re used to where darkness has so much influence over so much that’s been done in the world. This work, the Emotion Code, is part of this transformation. It’s just a little piece of it.

Think about when you read about somebody that is hurting someone else or has done some terrible thing, you can bet that there’s a Heart-Wall there because you see we feel with our heart. That’s why if someone is really hurting us or we’re really deeply grieved, we feel it in our chest, we feel it in our heart. And the brain that is in our heads doesn’t really feel. I mean, using the brain that is in our heads, the extension of that has created the world that we’re in now in many ways where we’re still using war to settle differences between nations, dropping bombs, blowing people up, and all kinds of crazy things, which seems to the logical mind to be perfectly appropriate.

But eventually, we are moving now towards a world where we’re all going to be living from our heart, you see, where love is going to rule the day. This work is about helping us to get there. It happens on an individual level. Get the book, learn how to do this. You can work on yourself, you can work on your family members, you can do so much healing not only for your own family that’s alive, but when you remove emotional baggage that has been inherited and passed down your line, you’re releasing it from them as well. We might want to talk about that next time because I’ve got some great stories I can tell you about that.

 

[01:34:11] Ashley James: Let’s do that. Awesome. Let’s have you back on the show and we’ll talk about inherited emotions. I have some amazing experiences about that as well. Again, an open-minded skeptic, wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t experienced it with my own experience. It’s pretty amazing, and it’s been documented actually. They’ve scientifically proven that the stress from trauma is passed down. They’ve been able to measure it, which is just so fascinating. But you can get very specific, and very specific trauma, very specific emotion that can be passed down for generations. 

So it’s up to us to stop that, to heal it, and to allow the healing to go in both directions for past generations and future generations. So I’d love to have you come back on and we can talk about generational healing. I’d also like to ask you about past life healing if that’s ever come up because that is something that will challenge us in a very interesting way. 

Dr. Bradley Nelson, I had the absolute pleasure having you on the show and can’t wait to have you back. It’s truly a gift and an honor to be in this day and age when we are birthing a world and we heal ourselves, heal thyself, help heal our friends and family. And if enough of us are going to tip the scales, we can help birth a world where love, peace, and consciousness are the things that we strive towards, the things that we resonate—coming from the heart instead of coming from the mind, like you said.

 

[01:35:50] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Yeah. We’re going that direction. Well, thank you, Ashley. It’s been really fun. Let’s do it again.

 

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The Emotion Code

 

The Emotion Code by Dr. Bradley Nelson

https://www.learntruehealth.com/the-emotion-code-by-dr-bradley-nelson

 

Highlights:

  • What is the Emotion Code
  • What is the Heart-Wall
  • Trapped emotions can accumulate in one area and cause pain
  • The Emotion Code can be used on humans as well as animals

 

We all have emotional baggage but does yours cause you physical pain? In this episode, Dr. Bradley Nelson talks about the Emotion Code and how it can help release trapped emotions and alleviate the pain that is caused by emotional baggage.

Intro:

Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. I am so thrilled that you’re here today to learn from Dr. Bradley Nelson and his Emotion Code, how you can heal physical illness through healing the emotional body. He has just thousands upon thousands upon thousands of testimonials on his website. You can check out hundreds of thousands of people around the world that have had amazing results, so you’re going to love today’s interview.

Now, I got to tell you about a special that’s happening right now. If you’ve been a listener for a while, you’ve heard me talk about the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. That’s the online health coach program that I took to become a health coach. It’s either a six-month program if you’re a full-time student. Or if you’re like me you’re a busy mom or dad or just busy with school or career and you just want to be able to become a health coach but fit it into your very busy life, then you would take their year-long program.

It adds up to about 20 minutes a day of videos and audios, and over the course of that, you learn over 100 dietary theories. But more importantly, they teach you how to be an amazing health coach from the standpoint of counseling, of that emotional side of health coaching because really, everyone knows to drink more water, go to sleep early, but why don’t we, right? What’s going on there? You teach your clients how to create new healthy habits that stick and how to go through the emotions to get to the point where you’ve increased their joy and vitality in every area of their life, and that’s something that IIN will teach you how to do as a health coach.

Now, I was surprised to find out because I’ve interviewed the CEO and also the founder of the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. It was very interesting for me to find out that about half the students take their year-long health coach training program just for their own personal growth because the program offers so much more personal growth. So if you want to become a health coach just for your personal growth you can absolutely do that by going to IIN, or if you want to become a health coach, you can also go to IIN. They’re having a great sale right now for the month of February, so you’re going to want to call them and check it out.

They already offer a great discount for my Learn True Health listeners. So when you call IIN, just mention my name, Ashley James, and Learn True Health podcast. But right now they’re giving my listeners an even better deal for Valentine’s day. And of course, isn’t that so appropriate? This month we’re all focusing on the energy and vitality of love, just bringing in more love and joy into our life and focusing it on maybe a bit of that romantic love. But also the familial love, the love for friends and family, especially the love you have for yourself, so let’s do some self-care.

If you want a free module from IIN, you can go to learntruehealth.com/coach. That’s learntruehealth.com/coach and check it out. If you want to learn more, just give them a call. Just google IIN. Their phone number comes right up, and those who answer have actually been through the program so they can help you.

Awesome. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about. Let’s help as many people as possible to learn true health.

 

[00:03:21] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 455. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have with us Dr. Bradley Nelson. I absolutely am thrilled to introduce you to his technique, and you should get his book The Emotion Code. You can also go to one of his websites, which is emotioncodegift.com and he gives you some great free goodies. Dr. Bradley, I’m really excited to have you on the show because in so many cases I’ve seen where people can heal their body on the physical level when addressing emotional blockages. And when going in and healing things on an emotional, mental, and even spiritual and energetic, everything comes back online. The vitality of the body and the joy comes back online.

I’ve seen so many people with chronic pain when they address the emotional side of their chronic pain, even though for years they’ve been going to chiropractors, getting acupuncture, or maybe even getting injections of some kind of steroid. But when they address the emotions, the pain went away and it’s absolutely fascinating. 

I even had a woman on the show recently talk about her Ph.D. thesis was scanning people’s brains while they did emotional work and saw that the pain would actually leave the body. She could see it in the brain, and that sometimes, that chronic pain was in the emotional centers. It lived in the emotional centers of the brain, and how fascinating is that? And this is something that you specialize in is helping people to heal on the emotional level like we should be focusing on.

We focus on healing the body physically, we should be focusing that much effort if not more effort on making sure we’re healthy emotionally. I’m thrilled that today you’re going to teach us more about your technique, the Emotion Code. Welcome to the show.

 

[00:05:23] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, thank you, Ashley. It’s really great to be here.

 

[00:05:26] Ashley James: Absolutely. Now, you have this really fascinating story that led you—both personally and professionally—to where you are today. I would love for you to share with our listeners so they can fully understand what happened in your life that had you become the healer you are today.

 

[00:05:42] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, it really started when I was seven years old I was really sick with the measles, and I’d overheard my parents talking. I knew that the plan was I was going into the hospital the next day and I was going into something called an oxygen tent. You know how it is when you’re a kid and you overhear your parents and they don’t think that you’re listening, but you are. So I knew the plan.

That night, I was lying on the couch. My parents had made a bed for me on the couch so that I could be near their room. I’m lying there on the couch just feeling really sick, and everyone else has gone to bed. My parents came into the room and my mother said to my father, “Honey, will you kneel down with me and say a prayer for our boy here so that he’ll be able to get well,” and so they did. Knowing my dad, I’m sure it was probably the first time that I ever heard my dad pray. My dad was a really great guy but he just was very private in that way. 

Anyway, here they are, they’re kneeling down by the side of the couch. My dad is praying for me that I’ll be able to get well, and in the middle of this prayer, I had this unbelievable thing that happened. It started at the top of my head and it went whoosh through my body to the soles of my feet, and I was healed just instantly.

Now to go from being really sick one moment to being completely well in the next moment is just so bizarre, so impossible, and so unforgettable that I remember that like it happened yesterday after all those years. So I held my tongue until my dad was done praying, which didn’t take long. When he was done I said, “I’m better. I’m totally better. I’m totally better.” And they said, “That’s fine, go back to sleep. Tomorrow you’re going into the oxygen tent.” But the next day proved it. I was totally well.

So I filed that away. What I learned from that experience was that there is a higher power that we can draw upon, that higher power goes by different names, and I don’t think that it really matters too much. I think that we all have that capacity that we can ask for help from that invisible higher power, so that’s what I learned.

Fast forward about another seven years, things tend to run in those seven-year cycles, right? I started having these pains in my back that were so extreme they’d come out of nowhere and they would take my breath away or put me on the ground. I mean, it was like being stabbed with a knife or being run through with a sword or something. It was really extreme. My parents took me to the hospital and they ran all these tests on me. My parents were told that I had kidney disease, that it was about 50% fatal I found out years later from my mother, and that they had nothing to offer. There was no medical treatment, and my parents were told that my kidneys were either going to survive or not. If they didn’t survive, I wasn’t going to survive basically because they didn’t do kidney transplants back then. It was a long time ago.

My parents decided that they would take me to see some alternative doctors, some holistic doctors. Now, these doctors were actually a couple of old-time osteopathic doctors. If you go to an osteopath nowadays, in most cases it’s like going to a medical doctor. They prescribe books and so on, and there are some of them who still do some of the things that the old-time osteopathic doctors used to do. Their profession was a lot like chiropractic is now back in those days.

What happened was I think in the early 1960s or maybe the late ‘50s, the medical profession basically came to the osteopathic profession and said, look why don’t you just join us and we’ll make you like us and you can prescribe drugs and so on, and so they did. But these two, it was a man and a woman and I never really knew for sure, but I think they were kind of fond of each other. They may have a relationship, I never knew. They stayed out and didn’t want to have anything to do with becoming allopathic medical doctors, and so they stayed out of it. 

They practiced out on the edge of town in a wheat field in a trailer house. I remember sometimes going there and there would be a busload of people that would just be leaving. People in other states would charter buses and come out and have treatments from these people. They were really really amazing people, really great healers. Dr. Alan Baine and Dr. Ida Harmon were their names.

So my folks took me to see these people. I can remember scraping the mud off my shoes trying to get into their trailer, and it was such a different experience from being in this big multi-million dollar clinic where they ran all these tests, where they couldn’t help me, they had nothing to offer. These people started working on me and right away I started feeling better. The pains right away were less severe, less frequent. And within about a month, I had pretty much forgotten that I’d never been sick. My parents took me back to the hospital and they ran all the tests on me, and as I recall they ran the tests twice. They said, “Well, that’s a spontaneous remission. Whatever we did must have helped.”

I was only 13 years old, but I wasn’t stupid. I knew that these people had actually helped me. So I decided at that time this is what I want to do with my life. I want to be a healer, and if I need to practice out on the edge of town in the middle of a wheat field in a trailer house, hey, that’s fine with me. Because those doctors seemed to know what was going on with me, and they seemed to know what I was doing. As far as I knew at age 13, doctors that were found in trailer houses out in wheat fields on the edge of town that seemed to be their natural habitat of doctors got results.

 

[00:12:25] Ashley James: Man, I want to see a doctor in a treehouse. Just imagine what they could do for you.

 

[00:12:33] Dr. Bradley Nelson: I did see a doctor in a treehouse once. It was in Hawaii. I’d hurt my back and found a chiropractor. I remember I was waiting in his office and it was on the north shore of Oahu. He actually climbed up the tree and then all of a sudden hopped into the open window from the tree into the waiting room. I thought, okay, I’m in the right place.

 

[00:13:01] Ashley James: This is my doctor.

 

[00:13:05] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Exactly.

 

[00:13:06] Ashley James: What kind of things did the osteopaths do to you? I mean, I’m imagining some form of almost like osteopathic or chiropractic adjustments, but what else did they do to help you heal your body so that your kidneys functioned again?

 

[00:13:22] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, mainly they were realigning my spine and they ultimately ended up giving me various different kinds of potions and concoctions that they had put together. But that’s mainly what it was back then. I had misalignments going on in my spine that were interfering with the communication between my brain and my kidneys that weakened my kidneys. They started realigning things for me. It was amazing how well it worked. I mean, really, the change in my body was something that was very obvious to me, something that I could really feel. That’s what happened back then.

So then, time went on and in 1980, I spent a semester at Brigham Young University Hawaii campus, which is in Laie on the North Shore of Oahu. That’s how I met that chiropractor that came in through the window. Anyway, I took a class in computer programming, and man, that was just something that I just immediately took over my life—computer programming. I became a computer programmer, and as time went on, I used to do consulting. 

I had a business, I called myself the Computer Tutor, which I thought was really clever. Back in the early ‘80s when people would buy computers for their business and they’d have absolutely no idea what to do with it. It would just sit there. They’d hire me to come in and look at the business, program things, and get things set up. So that’s what I did, and I really, really loved that. There was something about computers that appealed to the perfectionist in me. If I wrote a program and it wasn’t actually perfect, it wouldn’t work. That had a great appeal.

So what happened was time went on. At the time, I was going to Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah eventually and studying various different things. But I was about six months away from going into the MBA program to get my Master’s in Business, and I had decided that’s the direction I was going to go. I had this dream of going into the healing arts years before, but I kind of lost sight of that.

So my wife and I went back to Montana where I’m from and we were sitting around with my folks. It was Christmas time 1983. Out of the blue, my dad said to me, “Are you sure that you don’t want to go to chiropractic school because it seems like such a great career and you’ve always wanted to do it?” I said, “No, I’m going this other direction.” And he said, “Well, why don’t you think about it one more time?” So I said, “Okay.”

So my wife and I made up a pro and con list, on the one hand getting an MBA and going to work for some big company, and then on the other side going into the healing arts. If you’ve ever done a prone con list like that, I mean, there were appealing things on both sides, and doing that exercise didn’t really help me. But having learned years before that there’s a higher power that you can draw upon, that night I got on my knees and I prayed. I just said, “Father in heaven, if you have anything to say about this, help me to know what to do because I’m kind of in the middle of the fence now. I could go either way and be happy.”

So that night I was awakened three different times. When I would wake up it would almost be like I’d been having a dream, but it was an unremembered dream. I would wake up and my mind would be full of all these thoughts of how great it is to be able to help people naturally, heal people naturally, serve people, and so on. I would think, well, yeah. That’s true. But then, on the other hand, the computers and then I’d fall back asleep. That happened three times that night, so I’m still not convinced the next day and still don’t know what to do.

So that night I’m on my knees again and I’m praying and asking God can help me to figure this out because I still don’t know what to do—kind of thick-headed, apparently. That night, the second night, I had this experience where I was awakened again three different times like the night before, but on the second night, each time that I was awakened, the thoughts that I had when I was awakened, the feelings that I had were—if you can imagine—really exponentially more powerful each time. So that on the second night on the third time that I was awakened it was overwhelming at the thoughts of service to mankind, humanity, and the whole planet. I mean, it was absolutely overwhelming. And right then, I heard a voice that spoke to me as clearly as I’m speaking to you right now, Ashley, and it said, “This is a sacred calling.” And I thought, okay, I get it. Thank you. So that was it. I never looked back.

When I got into practice I figured well, God’s gotten me into this, maybe he’ll help me now. So I developed this habit, and the habit was that before I would go to work on someone I would just take a moment and just ask for help. I just say, “Father in heaven, please help me to help this person. Help me to know what they need in Jesus name, Amen,” basically like that. And it was a totally private, totally personal habit. Nobody ever knew that I was saying a prayer for them, but I was, and it was just a momentary pause really. But I’ll tell you something. I absolutely know for a fact that that higher power—whether you refer to it as God, Father, Jesus, the Creator, source energy, or whatever you want to call—is real, knows what we’re doing, and is aware of our lives.

There were times back then when somebody would come in to see me and I didn’t know sometimes what to do. I didn’t know how to approach this problem, I didn’t know what to do, didn’t know how to help this person. And in response to that silent prayer, the information that I needed would just flood into me like an avalanche of understanding. Sometimes it would be a totally different way of looking at things than I’d ever either ever considered before, and that nobody else had ever considered before either.

So basically, I was in practice for 17 years in a brick and mortar practice and for about another two and a half years in a distance practice. I had that habit all those years and nobody ever knew it was a totally private thing. Now I teach it as part of what I teach to people how to use the Emotion Code, how to use the body code. It’s part of what you do and what we teach people all over the world that it’s an important thing. Whatever you believe, it’s not a denominational thing. It’s just that if you believe in a higher power, well then, you’d be silly not to ask for help because you can get it. It’s available for the asking.

So one of the most powerful things that I learned during those years was that all of my patients—no matter how old or young they were, no matter what they were suffering from, whether they were dealing with migraine headaches, neck pain, back pain, knee pain, infertility, asthma, digestive problems, depression, anxiety, phobias, panic attacks, PTSD, eating disorders, or self-sabotage of some kind—I saw the gamut. All of those people had something in common, and it was that they were suffering from what you might call emotional baggage. 

We use that phrase emotional baggage, right? And we usually use it in reference to somebody else. We usually say things like, that guy’s really got a lot of emotional baggage, and it’s true. The thing is we all have emotional baggage, but what I learned is that our emotional baggage is actually a real thing. That our emotional baggage is a lot more concrete than we have ever thought. To understand how this works, you have to understand what the body really is. 

If you look at your hand, for example, that hand looks pretty solid. You can slap it down on your desk. It makes a nice thunk sound. But if you were to put your hand under a big microscope like say an electron microscope, and if you were to keep zooming in and zooming in and magnifying your hand more and more and more, pretty soon you’d be looking at cells, then pretty soon you’d be looking at this parts of the cell, then pretty soon you’d be looking at the DNA, and then pretty soon you’d be looking at individual molecules. At somewhere between a million and maybe 850 million times magnification, eventually, you’re looking face to face at a single individual atom. If you keep magnifying a little more, you see inside the atom. There’s really nothing in there. It’s empty space. Our bodies are pure energy.

Now, we think of energy and we think of the matter, and we think that they’re different, but they’re really not. Albert Einstein said that there really is no matter. That all that matter is energy that has had its vibrations slowed down enough to a point that we’re actually able to perceive it. And so that’s what our bodies are. Our bodies are made of pure energy. 

Some quantum physicists actually figured out recently that because our bodies are energy, you could easily put all 7.8 billion people on earth into a little box the size of a sugar cube and there would be room for even more. That is if you could take all of the empty space out of these bodies of ours.

It’s a strange thing really, our existence and these bodies of ours. That they are really more of a force field than anything else. But if you talk to any quantum physicist, they’ll all tell you that that is absolutely the truth about our existence, which is hard for us to wrap our heads around but that’s the truth of our reality, the truth of our existence.

So anyway, sometimes we feel intense emotions. Sometimes our parents are arguing, we’re little, and we’re crying ourselves to sleep at night. Sometimes we’re in high school, we go through a breakup, and it’s devastating. Sometimes somebody close to us dies or is sick, or sometimes we have a bad job. I mean, who knows. We have all kinds of things that go on, and we experience all kinds of emotions, and emotions are a tremendous gift. If we didn’t have emotions, I don’t think our lives wouldn’t be worth living. I think our life would just be a flat line.

So we have these emotions, and we have positive ones like joy, happiness, and so on, but we also have negative ones. It’s the negative ones that tend to cause trouble for us. Think about a time in your own life when you were really upset about something. Maybe it wasn’t that long ago. Maybe it was today. Maybe it was last week. Were there things that you went through in your life that was difficult? Did you ever cry yourself to sleep at night, were you ever abused, or did you ever go through anything that was difficult to bear? The reality of it is the vast majority of people, with few exceptions, have gone through emotionally difficult things.

Now, the problem is when you’re feeling an intense emotion of anger or maybe it’s resentment, frustration, grief, or sadness—whatever it might be. When you’re feeling an emotion like that, if you’re feeling it powerfully enough, your whole being—that whole energy field that is who you are—can be resonating and vibrating with that particular frequency. Sometimes what happens is that emotion can be too powerful, and it can actually then become lodged in the body, and this is emotional baggage. We refer to this as trapped emotions.

A trapped emotion is a ball of energy that is from about the size of a baseball to about the size of a softball, and these become lodged in the body. They can lodge anywhere in the body, and then they will cause a couple of different effects. They will cause physical effects. Pain is one of the big effects that they tend to cause. Again, when I was in practice and I had all kinds of people suffering from all kinds of different problems, I found that emotional baggage or trapped emotional energies were often at the root of all of these problems.

So to give you an idea of how this can work, there was a man that came in to see me many years ago. He had really severe low back pain. It was a 9 on a 0-10 scale, he said. He rated himself. If it’s a 10 you go to the ER and he was a 9. He was in a lot of pain, and I tested him using the Emotion Code. And with the Emotion Code, what we’re able to do is we’re able to very simply, very easily tap into the subconscious mind. 

The subconscious mind is where all the good information is. It’s the part of you that is keeping track of everything that’s ever happened to you in your life. It’s the part of you that remembers everything you’ve ever done, every face you’ve ever seen in a crowd, everything you’ve ever eaten, tasted, touched, or smelled. All the emotional energies that have gotten trapped in your body.

I’m testing him and I find he has trapped emotion, the emotion is anger. Testing a little bit further, I found this had occurred about 20 years before, and he immediately spoke up and remembered what had happened. He said it was a work situation. He had been falsely accused of something and was really angry about it. That was the emotion, that was what created this trapped emotional energy in his body. So I released that trapped emotion, and his pain level went from a nine to a zero in the snap of a finger, boom. It was gone. It was unbelievable. He kept bending over, walking around in my office, twisting this way that way, and exclaiming he couldn’t believe it. It was like a miracle really, and I was grateful that it worked so well. Why did that happen?

There are two parts really to this story, but the first part is the pain relief that this guy got. Why did that happen? Well, you see, when you have a trapped emotion, it literally is a ball of emotional energy. What it’s doing is it’s residing somewhere in your body, and it’s distorting the normal energy field of your body. When the normal energy field of your body is distorted, that’s all your body is ultimately an energy field. This guy had a trapped emotion of anger. It was in his low back, and after 20 years of having all of those tissues distorted by that anger energy, eventually, it was causing severe pain. With the release of that trapped emotion, the pain was gone because that distorting force that that emotion was creating in those tissues suddenly was gone.

Well, the story didn’t end there. A couple of days later he came back in to see me for a follow-up visit. He said to me, “My back pain is still gone. I still can’t quite believe it, but I have to tell you something. When I came here I had another problem that I didn’t tell you about. For as long as I can remember, I’ve basically been what you would call a rage-a-holic. I’m always yelling at my wife and my kids. I’ve got to watch road rage. I’ve been to anger management several times, it hasn’t really helped me. I’m just an angry person. I’m just kind of on edge all the time. 

Since you worked on me and you released that emotion of anger, I feel really different. Things that would set me off before don’t set me off now. I feel kind of relaxed and I feel a certain level of peace. How did you do that? How does that work?” At the time I said, “Well, I really don’t know. I just work here.” But here’s what we believe, okay. Think about this, and this is I believe the actual truth about emotional baggage. 

This guy’s got this ball of energy, this ball of anger in his low back, which seems very strange but I’m telling you that’s how this works. It’s distorting the energy field in his low back until eventually, it’s bad enough that he comes to see me. But overall of those 20 years, it has altered his personality because when a situation would come along in his life where he might tend to become angry, he would become angry much more readily, much more easily. Why? Because part of his body is feeling that emotion of anger 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

You see, every emotion is a frequency, it’s an energy, and it’s a particular vibration. Because part of his body was already vibrating at that frequency—that vibration of anger—it was easy for him to fall into that resonance. That’s why after 20 years, he believed that he was an angry person until that trapped emotion was released. 

That’s a great example you see of what our emotional baggage does to us and how it affects us. It’s such an incredible thing. Sometimes people have physical injuries that leave them with pain for years and years and years, and by removing their emotional baggage, sometimes that just disappears even though it was a physical injury in the beginning.

In fact, just a couple of days ago—we post a new testimonial every day on our site. We have far too many that we can actually post. Our site is at discoverhealing.com, by the way. I’m looking at our site and there’s a testimonial I want to share with you. 

This was from February 2nd this year. A woman named Sabrina from Valbonne in France said, “Twenty years ago, I had a big car accident with two whiplashes in a row. It was very painful and for years I had substantial neck problems and vertigo. The agony became worse over the years and, because I had children, I could not get any rest. Eventually, five years ago, my body collapsed with neuralgia and I had to stay in bed for days.” Neuralgia is nerve pain. “The pain was so intense that I went to see several doctors and chiropractors, but it did not help very much. Sometimes it was so excruciating that they could not even touch me.

Then I heard of the Emotion Code and it was like a miracle. I healed myself! Today I can play tennis, run, look after my kids, and work once again. This method saved my life! Many thanks! I want to share it with everyone who is in pain because I know how much things can improve!”

There’s a great example of that, right? Somebody who had a really bad car accident 20 years ago and using the Emotion Code on herself she was able to, apparently, get out of pain. She says it saved her life.

 

[00:34:35] Ashley James: I’d be curious to know—and maybe you wouldn’t know maybe from her but from others—was the trapped emotion about the car accident or did she create the car accidents because of a trapped emotion? The reason why I bring that up is one of my past mentors was getting in a series of fender benders until she realized that she was creating them. It was other people hating her, but there were so many. It was like 12 of them. So many of them that she realized because she was very spiritual and did a lot of emotional work herself—master practitioner and trainer of neuro-linguistic programming. She saw in herself when she went back and went okay, why am I creating this? What’s my belief system? What’s going on.

She realized that she was creating them because of the emotional distress she was having around her job and how much her unconscious was fighting her because it was completely going against her value system. Staying in that job was going against every fiber of her being but she kept shoulding herself like golden handcuffs, like I should stay here. So she was creating these disruptions to basically not go to work, but there’s a lot of emotions around her work, around feeling neglected and abused. So she had to work on that, get away from the job, work on the emotion, and then she stopped creating car accidents.

But she thought isn’t this interesting that some people—if you get out of victim mode in life right, and I really always have to preface this when I talk about being victim versus being at cause. I’m in no way saying that rape victims created it for themselves. This is just an exercise, it’s a mental exercise. 

But if you can take on the mental exercise of being at cause in your world versus being a victim of things that have happened to you, then from the standpoint of being at cause you can go, so why did I create that? And not for blame but more for what’s going on at the unconscious level that I put myself in this position to be in this accident? Even if someone else hit me, what’s going on? Can I own this from the standpoint of what can I learn from it? How can I grow from this and what is there for me to learn here? Is there something that happened in my life that had me put myself in this situation? 

Because all of our conscious and unconscious choices have led us to where we are today. And so if we own them and then we can learn from them, then we can look back and go, oh maybe this is connected to the emotions that were happening, the turmoil, or the unresolved issues that were happening prior to the accident.

I just wonder if in her situation, if she couldn’t heal fully from the neck pain because of emotions that created during the accident like feeling the injustice of being in a bad accident, or was it that she was having issues with motherhood, with her husband—whatever dissatisfaction in her life, whatever stuff was happening before the accident, still her body was holding on to that pain from the injury for years later because she hadn’t worked on it.

So I would just be interested to know what is the root cause? In a lot of cases, when it comes to an injury that lasts for years, is the root cause prior to the injury oftentimes, or is it the emotions from that injury itself? 

 

[00:38:19] Dr. Bradley Nelson: It depends. If I had to bet, I would say that probably there was some emotional baggage that helped to precipitate the accident. When we have trapped emotions, what they do is they send out—they’re continually broadcasting their vibration out into the universe. And so then that tends to draw things to us that tend to create more of that.

The other thing that happens is when you have an injury—the intense emotional experiences that you go through after that for years or decades—will often tend to become trapped in that area and make the distortion worse. A great example of this is a guy that I worked with many years ago. This guy came into my office, his name was Steve and he came in with his wife. He had a really severe tennis elbow. I mean, his arm was in a sling and he couldn’t turn the keys to start his car. It was so excruciating. I was barely able to touch the area, there was so much pain there.

So I started working with him and doing the normal chiropractic things and I wasn’t having too much success with it. So at the time, I was just learning about the emotional side of this, I was learning about trapped emotions. So I asked his subconscious mind, and we use muscle testing different types to get answers from the subconscious, and it’s all taught. We teach it very clearly in the Emotion Code book

So I asked his subconscious mind, is there a trapped emotion that is contributing to this tennis elbow? And the answer immediately was yes. What I found was that he had a number of trapped emotions that had become lodged in that area of his elbow during the years that he was in high school. Now he was about 42 years old when I was seeing him. So he’d been out of high school for a long time, but it was funny because every trapped emotion had to do with a girl who had basically rejected him. 

It was so funny because his wife was sitting there, and I’m muscle testing him and he’s saying, “Well, let’s see. Was it Sheila?” His arm would go down, “No, okay. Was it Cheryl? No. Shawna? Oh, yeah. That one’s strong. Yeah, Shawna. Yeah, she dumped me.” And so it was all these trapped emotions about that.

Here’s the thing, he was on the tennis team in high school. So what’s happening is as he’s dating these girls and they’re rejecting him, he’s also playing tennis and he’s incurring micro-trauma to those muscles that are being used the most. So that’s where the trapped emotions would lodge. The interesting thing about it is I think there were six different trapped emotions that needed to be released. The story’s in the book actually. It was so funny. 

But the amazing thing really is that every time we’d release a trapped emotion, the pain level would just instantly drop. The pain level just kept dropping and dropping and dropping with the release of each trapped emotion until finally, we cleared the last trapped emotion and the pain was completely, completely gone. He couldn’t believe it. He took the sling off and he’s moving his arm around. I could go in and I could press deeply into those muscles, there was no pain anymore. I remember that was the first time that I had seen this phenomenon where you can have more than one trapped emotion in one place.

But that was a great example to me of how trapped emotions can accumulate in an area and can eventually cause just extreme pain. What we find now is that about 90% of all the physical pain that people have is actually due to their emotional baggage to trapped emotions. We’ve got almost 7,000 practitioners of the Emotion Code now in 80 countries around the world, and we’re all finding the same thing. That if you’re in pain, there’s a very high probability that that pain is actually due to some emotional baggage. It’s actually really simple.

 

[00:43:02] Ashley James: Absolutely. I’m a master practitioner of neuro-linguistic programming timeline therapy and hypnosis. Back in 2005, my mentors were enamored with the book Healing Back Pain.

 

[00:43:22] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Oh yeah, by Dr. Sarno.

 

[00:43:24] Ashley James: Yes, Sarno. So what he discovered—unfortunately, he has passed away. I tried to get him on the show but he had passed away. Well, he was working, and I don’t think he was a medical doctor. I mean, this was back in 2005 I read the book. But he was doing work with hospitals and looking at the records and more administration work, looking at all the administration stuff seeing that all these back surgeries these patients were still having pain. Oh, we got rid of their bulging disc. We surgically removed it. Why do they still have pain? Why are they still on disability? Why are they still on these drugs?

So he started to look at stuff and found that—I can’t remember the statistic right now, I wish I could remember off top of my head, but it was so crazy something like 70% of all the MRIs they do, there’s some form of a bulging disc and yet people are asymptomatic. He’s like, how can we have someone who has a bulging disc that has no pain, but when people have pain in their back we always assume it’s a bulging disc. So we do these scans, then we blame the disc, and then we remove the disc, but they still have pain so it’s not the disc. So what is it?

And then he just dove in like you did, figuring it out. What he saw was that there was ischemia, which is a cutoff of blood flow to the muscles when there was an emotion withheld. So I had a client come to me, this was 2006. So still, a long time ago. She was a long-distance runner, she was in a lot of pain, she was very fit, and she was in her 50s closing in on her 60s. 

She said, “I’m on Tylenol—three every day—and I really don’t want to be on it because it’s not exactly good for you.” I started talking to her. I was like, “Well, how long have you had the pain?” She’s like, “Oh, you know a few years maybe four or six years.” And as we kept going back in her history, it’s like her brain couldn’t fully accept or remember. It actually had been more like 15 years that she had been in pain and been on these drugs. She’s like, “Oh wow, I didn’t realize how much time had passed.”

I got to the root cause because guilt kept coming up as we talked, and what we figured out was she’s catholic and she had an abortion. She felt so guilty about it and she said to herself, “I have to pay for this guilt with pain.” She actually said that. She wouldn’t allow the doctor to give her pain medicine during her abortion, and she said, “I have to pay for it with pain.” And she did, but what was interesting because I was also in Canada, I was a registered massage therapist and worked in sports rehab, in sports medicine. 

Before we started our session I said, “Can I palpate your back?” because she was pointing towards the quadratus lumborum on the left side, and I palpated. On the left side, it was hard as a rock ice cold. Now, this was in Florida. I was living in Florida at the time. I mean, it’s warm. On the right side, it’s flush, it’s a very good color, it’s warm and palpable. But on the left side, it’s like I’m touching granite. I thought this was interesting. This is ischemia. The whole muscle is just not letting any blood flow in, and that’s incredibly painful. Of course, when bands of muscle cause ischemia around the innervation of the nerve, it will create just incredible pain. Sometimes the pain will travel to different areas, but it’s very painful.

As she gets into talking about guilt, the pain goes up. I keep asking her where is your pain level? Now, I mean, my session with her was like six hours long. Sounds like your session would have been like six minutes. Your program sounds like maybe it’s more effective in that it sounds a lot quicker. But by the end of it, we released the negative emotion of guilt at the root level. I said, “Where’s your pain?” and I’m kind of expecting it to be less. She’s like, “It’s gone. It’s gone.” She’s like jumping up and down. She’s like, “How is it gone? How is it gone?”

So she goes back to her hotel room and I didn’t tell her to do this because I’m not a doctor, but she flushed all of her meds down the toilet. She was on three meds, one of them was an anti-anxiety med. She came to me the next day she’s like, “I took myself off all my meds. I’m not on the pain meds. I’m not on the anti-inflammatory meds. I’m not on the anxiety meds. I feel like a million bucks. I feel amazing.” And her pain was still gone. “Can I touch your back?” and her back on both sides were warm and palpable. 

That was the most amazing thing for me to see that someone physically that their muscles that were holding—I mean like you said, the size of a softball or a baseball. Her entire quadratus lumborum, which is quite a big muscle, so bigger than a softball was hard, ischemic, cold, and holding on to guilt for 15 years. That to me just blew my mind. How many people are on meds, emotional medication, and also physical medication, and suppressing and putting a band-aid on and just pushing it down and pushing it down and pushing it down and then poisoning their bodies? And they’re not free of it. 

That affects every area of their life just like one of your clients whose anger spilled over into every area of his life. Her guilt spilled over into every waking moment of her life, so just to be free of that. I’m so excited that people can learn your technique through your book and they can also then train. Can anyone become a practitioner of the Emotion Code?

 

[00:49:23] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Yes, anybody can become a practitioner. There’s really no prerequisites. It’s a simple program. It’s a six-month program, most people do it in about half the time. If you’re interested, there’s more information there—discoverhealing.com is our website.

Listen to this one because it never ceases to amaze me. Here’s one that came in from a guy named Robbi Cuijpers from Posterholt in the Netherlands. This was posted on the third, so today’s the ninth. Anyway, he said, “One night I woke up with a terrible toothache. It was around 2:00 AM and I couldn’t sleep anymore. I was suffering so much I was about to call the emergency desk and go to the hospital. It felt dreadful. Then suddenly the question popped into my head, “Could there possibly be some trapped emotions causing this horrible pain?”

“So, I gathered all the willpower I could find, jumped out of bed, and started sway testing for trapped emotions.” That’s where you stand up and your body will sway forward for yes and backward for no. “And yes, I had some trapped emotions that were causing the tooth pain. With the release of each emotion, my toothache instantly subsided. With the fifth and last emotion released, the pain was practically zero.

I then went to bed feeling on top of the world knowing the power of The Emotion Code.”

 

[00:50:43] Ashley James: That’s amazing. I love it. And the unconscious mind controls all of our muscle movements. I’ve seen that. I’ve seen it where you can ask your unconscious mind questions and it can control the micro muscle movements of a finger or an arm, or like you said, the sway test. If someone is in a wheelchair, there are other ways. You could do it because the unconscious mind controls the muscles of the body. You can communicate with it, which not that many people know. 

I was always afraid of my unconscious mind when I began to study, learn more, and dive into it, and then once I developed a relationship with my unconscious mind, it was actually the most rewarding thing because it’s you, it’s the rest of you. It’s the rest of you and your unconscious mind. It’s just you, it’s just more of you, but it’s the rest of you that loves you. Your unconscious mind adores you, loves you, wants to keep you safe, wants to keep you healthy.

I mean, trying to understand John E. Sarno’s philosophy behind why the unconscious mind creates this ischemic pain? I’m not saying it’s always ischemic pain because like you’ve mentioned it can be injuries and joints and things like that, although I’d love your opinion. I guess the hypothesis is that the unconscious mind wants to resolve these issues and so it’s bringing it to your attention.

 

[00:52:06] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, that’s exactly how I look at it. Yes, the symptoms that we have are really just the subconscious mind trying to get our attention so that we can open a dialogue and figure out what’s really going on. What the underlying cause of our problem really is. What is it that’s unresolved? What do we need to deal with that we’ve never dealt with? I love what you said about the subconscious—that it adores us and it is the rest of us. It’s absolutely so true. That’s what it is.

It’s not just pain. Listen to this one. This is another one. This was posted on February 8th, I guess yesterday. This woman Susan from Utah wrote and she said, “My husband, John, recently went through radiation therapy for prostate cancer. One of the side effects has been a terrible itching that would not stop after his therapy. His radiation doctor said that John could be allergic to something new but didn’t think the medication he had prescribed was doing it. John went to a dermatologist and was told that all older men get dry skin and that was it. I had recently read the Emotion Code and I tried it on his itching. The next day he completely stopped itching! In his eyes, this was a miracle!” You never know. Try it on anything.

 

[00:53:25] Ashley James: Right. Well, the thing is, all day long we have emotions. All-day long we have experiences, and how often do we actually sit back and unpack those experiences, process those emotions, and digest them like you would digest a very healthy meal? It’s like we’re taking care of our bodies, and so many of the people who are listening would sit down and eat a beautiful very nutritious meal, chew each bite until it’s fully digested, and really give themselves, bathe themselves in nutrition. Give themselves the time, the space, and the peace to digest their food because they know nutrition is so important. 

And yet when it comes to our emotions, we treat it like we’re going through the drive-thru and just scarfing it down and not even tasting it and then just throwing it back and expecting our body just to deal with it. Just deal with it. It’s so funny that we’re treating our body like we’re eating fast food when it comes to our emotions, but we take our physical body so seriously and we don’t take our emotional body that seriously.

I also believe there’s a stigma, and it depends on your generation. I see the younger generation. I’m 40 years old. I’m turning 41. Hopefully my mid-life is years to come, but I look at the younger kids and I see that they’re more open to counseling and therapy because there’s not a stigma for them. For the older generations, there was a large stigma around going to counseling. The thing is that working on your emotions is like going to the gym. You’re just going to the gym for your heart and your mind and just find the right trainer. Not every trainer out there is going to be the right trainer for you. Not every counselor is going to be the right counselor for you. 

But I have clients who say that their sessions, working with their therapist have been the most rewarding thing possible because it’s just the place they get to digest, absorb, process, release, let go of, and understand their emotions and how they react. And then they notice that they stop just reacting and spewing onto their family and spewing onto their kids. They actually catch themselves, they take a deep breath, and they’re able to then come from a place of communication that has love and has respect because they processed all the stuff that happened last week, last month, last year instead of just bottling it up and then spewing at people.

This particular idea of sitting down and respecting our emotional and physical body by working with the Emotion Code I think could be so rewarding.

Now back to my question about ischemia, is it always muscles? Is it always ischemic pain, or do you find sometimes there’s bone pain? I know you mentioned that man had tooth pain. That could have also been a referral pain from a trigger point. Do you think it’s always ischemia though, or have you seen it where there’s absolute evidence that it’s not created in a muscle?

 

[00:56:42] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, yes. See the thing about it is trapped emotions can lodge in different areas. They can really lodge anywhere. They can lodge in a specific organ. So the way that we look at it is a little different from Dr. Sarno’s, and I have tremendous respect for what he did and the consciousness that he was able to create for people that this kind of thing goes on. But trapped emotions can lodge in different places. One of the most fascinating things that we see is that they will often form into a wall around the heart to protect the heart from being broken, and we call that a Heart- Wall. That’s one of the most interesting things that we see.

With the Heart-Wall, it’s not necessarily that we see the ischemic pain so much. Although sometimes, people do have that. But there’s a whole another dimension to it. Anciently, the ancient peoples believed that the heart was the seed of the soul, the source of love, the source of romance, the source of creativity, and really the core of our being. Even now, after all these thousands of years, anywhere you go on earth, if it’s Valentine’s day or if someone is romancing you, they’ll give you a box of something tasty that’s probably shaped like a heart. So these are ancient ideas.

I mean, the word heart is mentioned just shy of a thousand times in the bible, for example. There are these scriptures in the bible that say things like God doesn’t look on the outward appearance of a person, instead, he looks on the heart. There’s another one that says that as we think in our hearts, so we will be. In the west, we’ve never really paid much attention to those old ideas because medicine is still very mechanistically oriented, still very rooted in Newtonian physics. So the heart is just a muscle and we know it’s a muscle. It just pumps blood, that’s all it does, and that’s how we’ve looked at it for many, many years.

But in the last 20 years or so, there has been new instrumentation developed, and new studies that have been done that show some amazing things. For example, they found that when one person is feeling love or affection for another person that their heartbeat will become measurable in the brain waves of that other person on an EEG. They found that their heartbeats will synchronize. So there’s this connection going on between all of us that we have not necessarily been aware of.

But what we discovered, what was actually shown to us back in 1998, my wife had a dream. She asked me to help her decipher her dream. As I’m trying to do that, all of a sudden I have this experience that I can only describe as a waking vision where the room that I was in suddenly disappeared and I’m looking instead of this incredibly beautiful hardwood floor with this understanding that my wife’s heart is underneath this floor. 

Now, this is one of the strangest things that I’ve ever experienced, and I don’t take drugs. I don’t even use caffeine anymore. I’m very straight that way. But anyway, this lasted for several minutes. I told my wife what I was seeing and understanding. She didn’t know what it meant either. We prayed, asked God to help us figure this out.

We started muscle testing her, and what we found was that when she was two years old—because she was born into a very volatile, very dysfunctional family—she, at some point around that age, thought her heart was going to break and so she started building a wall around her heart. This wall was literally made from layers of her emotional baggage. So she’d had this wall around her heart all of these years. We asked if we could start removing these, and it took us a couple of weeks to take down this wall one emotion at a time. 

When the last one was removed, all of a sudden, things really shifted for her because for one thing, whatever group of friends that she’d ever been with, she never really truly felt like she belonged anywhere like she was always the odd person out. She always felt kind of expendable until that was removed, then suddenly, she felt like she belonged. The depression, the anxiety that she had to deal with decreased dramatically.

Initially, when we discovered this, it was really shown to us. It’s very much a God thing trying to get this out into the world this understanding. Initially, I thought it was maybe just her, that she was the only person on earth that had this. But what we find now is that about 93% of people have this phenomenon going on, and it’s called a Heart-Wall. 

The most recent testimonial that I have about this—we’ve got about 10,000+ testimonials on our site. We get new ones every single day. We’ll pick one every day and post it. This one came in on February 4th. This is from a woman named Fawn. Apparently, one of our practitioners from Ohio said, “My most meaningful experience using the Emotion Code is with a client named Paul. He is a 70-year-old man who had such a horrific and abusive childhood that he built a Heart-Wall to protect himself. He never married or even had a close relationship. He has had many acquaintances but no close friends.

After our Emotion Code sessions, he is now transformed! He went out and got his motorcycle endorsement at 70! And now he is actively looking for a lady to enjoy it with him. He simply shines! The transformation is the most amazing thing I have ever witnessed.”

Think about this, 93% of people have this phenomenon, this Heart-Wall phenomenon going on. What it does is it interferes with your ability to give and receive love for one thing, but also to really create the life that you want because the best ideas that you’ll ever have are not in your brain, they’re in your heart. And the heart we know now is really a second brain. The heart is filled with gray matter and white matter, it really is a second brain. 

In fact, when scientists a number of years ago looked at the communications along the nerves between the brain and the heart, they found the vast majority of communications were going from the heart to the brain, and they were expecting it to be just the opposite.

What one of the first people that I saw after we worked on my wife with this was a nurse that came in to see me. She was 38 years old, and she came in because she had this terrible neck pain that she’d seen a couple of doctors for—they haven’t been able to help her. As I was talking with her she told me that she was single. She had not dated in eight years and was never going to date again. 

So she’s 38, hasn’t dated in eight years, she’s basically celibate. She was an attractive person. I said, “Well, why do you feel this way? What happened to you?” She said eight years before, she’s really deeply in love with this guy who dumped her and broke her heart. That was it. She hadn’t dated since then. So I tested her and found, sure enough, she had put up a wall around her heart from that breakup. There were three emotions, three layers making up this wall. We cleared those emotions one at a time, and when the last one was gone, instantaneously the neck pain was gone—instantaneously. 

When we see instantaneous pain relief like in this case and like in the case with the guy that I told you about in the beginning that had the anger from 20 years before, I think there’s more going on than just the ischemia. I think if those arteries and veins open up a little bit, it’s going to take a little bit of time for things to shift, but we see instantaneous relief of pain in many cases. That’s what happened to her.

That’s not the end of the story though. She left the office feeling totally fine and didn’t come back for three months. When she came back into my office—I’ll always remember this—she looked great. I said, “Hey, you look great. I haven’t seen you for a while. How are you?” She said, “You know, my neck’s been fine since I was here. You cleared that Heart-Wall for me, that really works. About two weeks after I was here, I found out my childhood sweetheart has been living right around the corner from me for almost eight years. We’re dating and we’re in love, and I think he’s going to ask me to marry him.” Wow, what a shift. Holy smokes.

 

[01:06:04] Ashley James: You got me fascinated when you said that it can manifest in the organs. We often hear anger in the liver and fears in the lungs or the kidneys. If someone has something with their pancreas, an illness with their pancreas because, with type 2 diabetes, it’s not necessarily a pancreatic issue. If someone has a known illness with an organ or like fatty liver disease or they have a traumatic brain injury, have you seen people take something—either acute or chronic—that’s in an organ that’s been labs diagnosed, been tracking it, seeing that yes there’s an injury or there’s a disease state and they worked on the emotions that were there? Have you seen people, their bodies heal to the point where they’ve been able to heal organs?

 

[01:07:16] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Yes. For example, one of the most common examples of that that we see is actually infertility where we find trapped emotions, for example, in the uterus. By removing those trapped emotions [inaudible 01:07:35] conceive. Think about all the different organs. The first thing that you have to understand is that every disease process that people experience has an emotional component every single time. In our experience now, doing this for 32 years, there’s always an emotional component.

If you identify the emotional component and you release that emotional baggage that’s affecting that area, then yes, things turn around. We’ve seen it happen over and over and over, so yes. In fact, trapped emotions can affect very specific parts of the body. For example, you might have a trapped emotion affecting your pineal gland, maybe the hypothalamus, or the pituitary. You might have trapped emotions that are affecting the thyroid gland. See all that this does really is it just removes the encumbrances that are in the body’s way of being able to function like the body wants to.

The body wants to be healthy, it wants to function normally, but when you’ve got emotional baggage, those are encumbrances, those are blockages to really being able to heal and to function normally. In fact, here’s a really dramatic story that I haven’t thought of for many, many years. But in talking about this, it’s reminded me of this.

There was a woman that came in to see us once who had fibromyalgia, which is this pain that you get all over the body that is very difficult, no known cure, and so on. I was able to help her with that, and then she told my wife and I about her daughter. What had happened with her daughter was that her daughter had gotten married about six months before, but her daughter suffered from vaginismus, which is the tightening down of the opening of the vagina. 

She and her husband, still after six months, had not been able to have intercourse. They’d never been able to consummate their marriage. The marriage is starting to show signs of stress, and so she asked if we would look at her daughter. So we did so. Her daughter came in and we checked her. My wife found something that I don’t think we’d ever seen before, and I don’t think we’ve ever seen it since. But this girl had what we ended up calling a vaginal wall. 

So in the sense, if you think about a Heart-Wall, if you feel like your heart is going to break, you’re feeling a physical sensation like there’s an elephant sitting on your chest, or maybe like you can’t breathe. There’s a physical thing going on there. The subconscious mind will put up a wall. The wall is an invisible wall to us, but to the subconscious, it’s very, very real I think. My wife’s Heart-Wall, the symbolic material was wood. She grew up in a house with hardwood floors. 

So the subconscious will always choose some kind of material, and we’ve seen heart wall symbolic materials everything from plastic to glass to iron. But anyway, this young woman had a wall that her subconscious mind had put up in that area of her body to protect herself, and then she told us that she had been sexually abused at some point as a child. So anyway, we cleared the trapped emotions that were creating that, and it was the next day her mom called us and she said, “Guess what? Everything’s working. Thank you.” And in fact, she said, “Her husband is coming home. He’s spending his lunch breaks at home now for a catch-up.”

 

[01:12:02] Ashley James: I had a friend who had that and she had to have surgery. She had surgically had her vaginal opening altered so that she could have intercourse. It’s very interesting that she had the same condition. She spent years doing everything. Obviously, she didn’t learn about the Emotion Code. It would have been a lot easier than having surgery.

 

[01:12:31] Dr. Bradley Nelson: That was their next step really. Their next step is surgery. But luckily, we were able to avoid that.

 

[01:12:37] Ashley James: I’m just going to throw this out there, I like to get weird. What about people who are in a coma who has maybe dementia. Maybe children who are nonverbal autistic or adults who are non-verbal autistic. Is there any way to do this technique with people who can’t clearly communicate with you?

 

[01:13:05] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Oh yes, absolutely. It’s not a problem at all. The reason why is because the subconscious mind never sleeps. So it doesn’t matter. People can be worked on when they’re asleep, when they’re in a coma. In fact, let me tell you a story. This is actually in the Emotion Code book. We have twin boys. My wife and I had seven kids together, and then she had a daughter before we met. So we have a total of eight, but we have twin boys that are 31 years old now. When they were four years old, we thought that one of them had a problem with his hearing because he wouldn’t speak in full sentences. His brother on the other hand was a total chatterbox, but he wouldn’t speak in full sentences. We just didn’t know what was wrong.

So we took him to a hearing specialist thinking maybe he was a little bit deaf, but his hearing was totally fine. At that time, we were really first learning about trapped emotions. So one night, we decided to work on him when he was asleep. Now, in the book, we explain how you do this. It’s a simple process, but we worked on him when he was asleep and we found that he had an inherited trapped emotion of anger from my wife’s father. 

So in other words, when my wife was conceived in the womb, there was emotional energy of anger that was passed from grandpa. When we conceived this little boy of ours, that energy was passed to him. So we cleared that, released that. He’s asleep so we’re working on him when he’s asleep, no problem, subconscious never sleeps. We cleared a couple of other trapped emotions. The next morning at breakfast, guess who will not shut up. My wife and I are just looking at each other like a couple of owls like we just cannot believe what’s happening.

We all have emotional baggage, and getting rid of it is so important. If you think about it, if you’ve got a heart-wall and there’s about a 90% chance that you do, then what that’s doing is it’s interfering with your ability to give and receive love and your ability to really create the life that you want because your best life and the best creative ideas that you have are actually in your heart, are not in your head.

The beautiful thing about the Emotion Code is that it’s really, really simple. Anybody can do it. Kids can do it. We have kids that are having great success with it in different parts of the world. You can learn how to do it yourself, you can use it yourself, use it on your own kids, you can use it on your husband, on your wife, on your children, and so on.

 

[01:16:25] Ashley James: Can you do it with babies?

 

[01:16:27] Dr. Bradley Nelson: You absolutely can do it with babies. You can even do it with babies before they’re even born. When they’re in the womb you can work on them.

 

[01:16:35] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. That is so cool. I’m 32 weeks pregnant so I better start reading. Can you do it with animals?

 

[01:16:42] Dr. Bradley Nelson: You absolutely can do it with animals. In fact, let me see, there was a story that I was just looking at here on our site. Let me see if I can find that really quick.

 

[01:16:56] Ashley James: I consider myself an open-minded skeptic, like a really, really open-minded skeptic. I wouldn’t be prompted to ask that question if I hadn’t had an experience where a friend of mine asked me to do emotional work on her dog and I’m like I’ll try. 

Basically, the dog’s parents are splitting up. The two owners were going their separate ways, and the dog was picking up on the tension and it was a wiener dog. All of a sudden, his back legs stopped working. He became paralyzed, and the vet said this is common with wiener dogs. But there was no trauma. He didn’t fall down, get kicked, or hurt. He didn’t bump himself. He just all of a sudden, his parents are splitting up. There’s tension in the household, and now he isn’t working.

So I sat with him, I held him in my hands, and I just started my heart communicating to his heart. All of that information came flooding to me. I’m like, okay, let’s fill you with love and get you to see that your parents love you. You’re going to be in their lives and you get to have two homes now. They’re going to share. Your parents are getting divorced but you still have them. They’re not leaving you. They’re just leaving each other. The three of us were talking to him and telling him that, and then he got up and started by his tail and his legs worked again. We’re like okay, that works.

I’ve had other people on the show who are healers. One guest of mine helped a horse with her fertility issues. She was having miscarriages basically and this horse wasn’t able to conceive. So he did emotional work with the horse and the horse was able to heal from the emotions of all the sadness from the lost pregnancies. And then the next one worked and she was able to get pregnant. I’m like, okay. You know what, there’s something very interesting going on here. Of course, animals have emotions. If you’ve ever had a cat or dog, you make a connection with them, and there’s more there. There’s love, there’s acceptance, there’s joy. They have some very interesting emotions.

There are so many studies done now where they can actually see that animals have emotions. I’m not doing a debate as to whether they have a soul or not, or whether they go to heaven or not. I mean, those are all very interesting conversations to have. But the fact is that if we as humans can—and we’re animals too—but if we can heal physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, energetically by using the Emotion Code and working on our emotions and healing them, why not animals? I love that you said we can work with babies.

I just imagine the parents who have autistic children who are non-verbal could be doing this with their children. How beautiful is that? Sorry, you had a testimonial about working with animals?

 

[01:19:55] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Oh, right. This one just came in. This is from a woman named Beate in Germany. This came in on the first of February. She said, “Lilly, the dog of a family friend, suddenly no longer wanted to go up the stairs in her home and only managed to do so with a lot of start-up and motivation from her owner. Nothing seemed to be wrong physically. By the time my friend shared this with me, sitting together in a cafe, it had been going on for a long time. So, right there I connected remotely with Lilly the dog, and released a few of her trapped emotions. When my friend got home that afternoon, Lilly ran up the stairs without any complaints. A few days later, when her “fear of stairs” came back, I was able to solve a few more things. Now Lilly has no more problems walking up the stairs.”

And what’s interesting about this one too is that this was done at a distance. Of course, that’s because this is energy medicine really in its purest form. It’s not bound at all by distance, and so that’s a fun one, huh?

 

[01:20:59] Ashley James: Right. When you start studying quantum physics, you realize we’re all in the milieu together. It doesn’t matter if we’re 1,000 miles away or 1 foot away from each other. We have this energetic connection. I just love that. It blew my mind. It completely changed my life. My life took a 180 after I saw the movie What The Bleep Do We Know because I went like oh my gosh. This energy. Stop thinking in terms of chemicals and matter. Think in terms of energy. It’s all about energy. So that just makes total sense that emotions are energy and having them trapped in the body, very interesting.

You lived and went to school in Hawaii for a while. I studied Huna because I thought of the ancient Polynesian technique. I wouldn’t even call it a religion because it was more like their lifestyle. It was how they breathed, how they loved, how they healed, how they fished. Huna was their philosophy for living, and in Huna, there’s a belief. Now, this is hundreds or thousands of years old, who knows, but it’s an ancient Polynesian belief system about living and life.

They believed that emotions would become trapped in the body like black boulders stored in bags inside us. Like if you looked at a river and saw a river with no boulders would be calm, but a river with many boulders would be turbulent. So they had this idea that the more trapped emotions you had, the more the chi was turbulent within you and was thrown off. So I’ve always carried that imagery in my mind. So of course we would want to heal and release these emotions.

Now you’ve talked about getting the book the Emotion Code, but you’ve also talked about this course. Could someone who was very passionate like I am wanting to do this to all their friends and family, let’s say, and themselves and obviously the family being receptive, would the book be enough? Would it suffice, or should someone who really wants to do this technique with their animals, their kids, their husband, and their friends—should they take the course? Who should take the course and who should read the book?

 

[01:23:24] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, the information is definitely in the book. People all over the world are reading the book, putting it into practice, learning how it works. If you really want to master it or if you want to actually charge people for sessions, then we do want you to go through the certification program. The certification program that we have is an online program, and it’s available—you can go to discoverhealing.com. It’s actually on sale right now. It’s not an expensive program. It’s all online. You go through at your own pace. Most people will go through it in about three months, the record is two weeks. It just depends on how motivated you are.

But the nice thing about that is that it gives you rails to run on. I mean, think about it, I know that you’ve done this because I’ve done this and I think so many people have done this where you go to some really great course or something and you buy some materials and then a year later you come across it when they’re still shrink-wrapped. You think, oh yeah, I really wanted to learn that. 

So the certification program gives you some deadlines, enables you to really learn it well, and get a lot of practice. You have a student advisor that helps you and gives you any kind of feedback that you need. But it also is all in the book. I mean, if you want to learn it from the book and use it on your friends, family members, and so on, by all means, go for it. It’s all in there. But if you want that added experience of getting certified, then yeah. If you want to do it for a living, then we want you to do that for sure.

 

[01:25:12] Ashley James: So why specifically? Because we have a lot of health coaches that listen to the show. I’m sure they’re all perked up and already on your site ready to sign up because this would be a great adjunct to health coaching. What is different in the live course that’s from the book? Are you teaching them how to work with people, what to look for, or the precautions? What is it that you get out of the live course that really helps you work with people on a professional level?

 

[01:25:44] Dr. Bradley Nelson: The course, in part, consists of 10 different recordings. They’re basically presentations where I go through with two of our top practitioners that have been doing this for many, many years. We discuss and kind of bounce things off of each other in explaining things. So what we try to do is we try to explain all of it from the very beginning in a way that makes it very easy for everybody to understand. That’s part of it. 

You’ll gain insights from certification that you won’t get from the book. But also, in the certification program, you have homework. Your homework actually is the book itself. We supply the text of the book and the book on audio for you. You’ve got homework and then you work on yourself, and you’re one of the people. There are, I believe, 20 people that you have to work with, but you can count yourself as one of those people. 

As you’re working with people and you’re releasing trapped emotions, you’re recording everything that you’re doing online on our site at discoverhealing.com in the back end at a location that’s just for you for this, and you record all that information. Then as you’re doing that, you do have to work with some animals, you have to totally clear the Heart-Wall from a number of people. What it does is accelerates your ability to do this because it’s like coaching. I mean, nobody really gets to the Olympic level of any sport without having a coach. It’s not possible. 

That’s kind of what this program does. You’re able to see videos of other people doing this and sample sessions that are actually done that our practitioners are doing. You learn how to do this the right way. You learn how to do it better at a distance and so on. And then you’re quizzed on everything. There really is no final exam. You basically pass off each part of it as you go and so each part builds on the next part. But we have lots and lots of people doing it. It’s a great program. We consistently get very, very high 90% feedback from everybody doing it, that it’s a great program.

Anyway, the book itself if you’re just wanting to explore this a little bit maybe, you can go to emotioncodegift.com. There you can download the first couple of chapters of the book for free. We can give you those for free, you can try those out. If you want to get the book, the book’s available on Audible if you want to listen to it, amazon.com of course, Barnes & Noble—are they still in business? I think they are.

 

[01:29:09] Ashley James: Yeah. It’s Borders that went under.

 

[01:29:12] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Borders, yeah. What about B. Dalton? Are they still? I can’t remember.

 

[01:29:14] Ashley James: I was so bummed. Where I lived in Vegas—Henderson, Nevada just off of Stephanie, there was a Barnes & Noble and a Borders practically beside each other. That would be my favorite Saturday afternoon activity. I’d go pour through all of Barnes & Noble and then I’d pour through all the Borders. They would actually have different books depending. I would always go with the self-help, personal growth, and spiritual sections. That was my shtick. It was funny. 

My husband’s and my second date we did that. We went to Barnes & Noble and Borders. I pointed out every book I ever read and he bought every book I ever read. He walked to the register with his hands full. He spent hundreds of dollars, and I looked at him. I’m like this guy listening to me. He’s serious. This guy’s serious. Oh, man. That was cool because he said he was into personal growth but then he was like putting his money where his mouth was. That was pretty hot I’d have to say. But we’ve been married for almost 13 years. I pretty much knew almost instantly that there was something special there. So yeah, I miss Borders.

Barnes & Noble’s around. I still do shop there occasionally. I love that you have an audiobook. I’m absolutely getting your audiobook because I love listening to audiobooks. I’m excited about that. Any listener can listen to your book or read your book and begin to immediately apply these techniques. They don’t have to take the course, but if they want to do it professionally they should take the course because they’re going to get it on a much deeper level.

That is so exciting. While I’ve been interviewing you I’ve made a list of at least 12 friends, clients, and family members that I want them all to get your book. I imagine all the listeners have done the same. No wonder you’re so popular. This is so needed in this world.

Dr. Bradley, I really want to have you back on the show. I’d love for you to continue to dive into this topic and explore it. Today was just to get us an introduction, get our foot in the door, and of course, everyone’s going to go get the book. I’m going to definitely go listen to your book, but I’d love to have you on the show you know after I’ve finished the book, and then maybe we can go deeper a bit into this topic. I know my listeners will absolutely love that, especially since they’re all going to go out and get your book too. And of course, they’re going to go to emotioncodegift.com and get the gift you’re giving out.

Is there anything you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview?

 

[01:31:51] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Well, I would just say that we’re living in this very unique time of the earth’s history where the world is in this transformational process. To me, it’s almost like the earth is in labor. It’s trying to give birth to this new world where so many of us want it to go. A world where people are living from their heart, and a world that is just so different from the world that we’re used to where darkness has so much influence over so much that’s been done in the world. This work, the Emotion Code, is part of this transformation. It’s just a little piece of it.

Think about when you read about somebody that is hurting someone else or has done some terrible thing, you can bet that there’s a Heart-Wall there because you see we feel with our heart. That’s why if someone is really hurting us or we’re really deeply grieved, we feel it in our chest, we feel it in our heart. And the brain that is in our heads doesn’t really feel. I mean, using the brain that is in our heads, the extension of that has created the world that we’re in now in many ways where we’re still using war to settle differences between nations, dropping bombs, blowing people up, and all kinds of crazy things, which seems to the logical mind to be perfectly appropriate.

But eventually, we are moving now towards a world where we’re all going to be living from our heart, you see, where love is going to rule the day. This work is about helping us to get there. It happens on an individual level. Get the book, learn how to do this. You can work on yourself, you can work on your family members, you can do so much healing not only for your own family that’s alive, but when you remove emotional baggage that has been inherited and passed down your line, you’re releasing it from them as well. We might want to talk about that next time because I’ve got some great stories I can tell you about that.

 

[01:34:11] Ashley James: Let’s do that. Awesome. Let’s have you back on the show and we’ll talk about inherited emotions. I have some amazing experiences about that as well. Again, an open-minded skeptic, wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t experienced it with my own experience. It’s pretty amazing, and it’s been documented actually. They’ve scientifically proven that the stress from trauma is passed down. They’ve been able to measure it, which is just so fascinating. But you can get very specific, and very specific trauma, very specific emotion that can be passed down for generations. 

So it’s up to us to stop that, to heal it, and to allow the healing to go in both directions for past generations and future generations. So I’d love to have you come back on and we can talk about generational healing. I’d also like to ask you about past life healing if that’s ever come up because that is something that will challenge us in a very interesting way. 

Dr. Bradley Nelson, I had the absolute pleasure having you on the show and can’t wait to have you back. It’s truly a gift and an honor to be in this day and age when we are birthing a world and we heal ourselves, heal thyself, help heal our friends and family. And if enough of us are going to tip the scales, we can help birth a world where love, peace, and consciousness are the things that we strive towards, the things that we resonate—coming from the heart instead of coming from the mind, like you said.

 

[01:35:50] Dr. Bradley Nelson: Yeah. We’re going that direction. Well, thank you, Ashley. It’s been really fun. Let’s do it again.

 

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The Emotion Code

Jan 21, 2021

Kellyann's website:
http://www.platinumenergysystems.ca
Morning exercise that Kellyann recommends:
https://www.yoqi.com/qigong-videos
Kellyann also recommends looking into Cells or tissue Salts," otherwise known as homeopathic mineral salts. Hyland's brand often is a reliable and easy to find brand sold in most health stores.

 

Small Changes in Daily Habits can make the Biggest Difference for a Clean and Functioning Body, Mind and Spirit

 

https://www.learntruehealth.com/small-changes-in-daily-habits-can-make-the-biggest-difference-for-a-clean-and-functioning-body-mind-and-spirit

 

Highlights:

  • Inflammation is caused by inflamed thoughts and feelings
  • Routines that support cellular health
  • What is nerve toxicity
  • Importance of breathing properly
  • How to stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system

 

When we’re stressed, our body goes into fight or flight mode, which negatively affects our body. Kellyann Andrews is back with more tips on keeping our stress levels low and how to return to the rest and digest mode. She also shares more success stories with the PES system.

[00:00:00] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 454. Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. We have here today with us back on the show Kellyann Andrews from platinumenergysystems.ca. You were on episode 292293329, and 330. This time would be your fifth episode. Welcome back to the show.

 

[00:00:41] Kellyann Andrews: It’s lovely to be here, Ashley. Thank you so much. It’s such an awesome thing that you’re doing for people to give them the sense of their liberty because they can make their own choices.

 

[00:00:55] Ashley James: Absolutely. We’re raised in a system where we’re told how to think, where to go, and that we only have one system of medicine. And then we look around and realize, wait a second, I can think for myself, and there isn’t only one system of medicine. There are many systems of medicine. It’s not all one system fits all. You don’t take all the problems in your house to a plumber. Why would you take all your health problems to a doctor that only has one set of tools?

Now, MDs are fantastic diagnosticians. That’s really where they shine. That is not diagnosing everything. There are certain things that haven’t caught up yet in the MD-based world, but they’re great diagnosticians. They’re great to go to for emergency medicine. They’re wonderful at stitching you back up. But when it comes to chronic illness, the problem is that they don’t have the toolset, the philosophy, or the training.

 

[00:02:04] Kellyann Andrews: It’s not their department.

 

[00:02:05] Ashley James: It’s not their department, and there are so many wonderful MDs out there who really want to make a difference and who do make a difference. There are wonderful MDs who choose to become holistic doctors and they have to get a lot of additional training. But for some people who listen to this show who are sick of being sick and tired, they don’t know why they’re sick and tired, and they’re really sick of being given drug after drug. Maybe they don’t want to be given drugs to manage symptoms that create more problems. Then we need to look at all the different possible avenues for us.

A lot of times, listeners decide to take matters into their own hands and learn from many episodes like today’s episode and learn from people like you. And they decide to do things like daily supportive detoxification and nutrition just to help the body manage the daily stressors that we have right now. There are over 80,000 new man-made chemicals in our air, water, food, and soil. We just are not detoxing at a rate that we can handle to get rid of all this pollution, and then that leads to further deterioration.

Kellyann, you specialize in supporting the body’s ability to detox. We’ve talked about this in past interviews, and so I highly recommend listeners go and check those out. Today, you’re back here to continue the discussion of focusing on cellular health and resilience. Especially now coming into winter. Resilience allows us to bounce back, to resist illness, and bounce back from it. That’s what we definitely want to create within our health this idea of resilience.

So many of the listeners have shared that they’ve had amazing experiences with you with the Platinum Energy System machine, which I have shared in the past episodes my thrilling joy in using and experiencing the detoxification of working with your machine. Again, listeners, go back and listen to those past episodes because Kellyann fills us in on that. But a lot of interesting stories have come to the surface of listeners who have used your system with their children, with their husbands during times when they have a cold or flu, during times when they’re feeling really ill. They’re all noticing hugely positive benefits.

I have a friend who has a developmentally delayed son who’s very hard to understand in his speech. After one session, she was almost crying. She couldn’t believe it. She started recording him just to prove it to herself and show it to others. After one session, which is 30 minutes, he was speaking so clearly you could understand every single word. He said his name, he spelled his name, and he was talking like every other child his age. That was amazing that when we support the body’s ability to detox, it affects the brain, it affects the nervous system, it affects every organ in the body. What we need to do is look at how we can support the body’s ability to detox and have cellular health and resilience.

So thank you so much for coming back to the show to continue to share with us your information. I know you have so much you want to share today. Since we had you on the show last, how has it been working with all the Learn True Health listeners who have contacted you?

 

[00:05:58] Kellyann Andrews: It’s so lovely. I just so enjoy being in this field and having the insights and the understanding of toxicology and physiology. Just continuing the journey down the road with the people that are already using it. I mean, daily, they’re calling and saying this transformation has occurred or that transformation. So it’s just a total joy to hear the stories of recovery.

 

[00:06:33] Ashley James: Are there any specific stories that come to mind that you’d like to share?

 

[00:06:38] Kellyann Andrews: I mean, there was one case where a little girl was very autistic, very internalized. If you looked at her on a spectrum of introversion versus extroversion, she’d be way down major introversion. She was very inside herself. She was very grumpy. She was cranky. Disposition was not pleasant at all, and she was very impatient, demanding, and just irritable altogether. So they put her in the foot spa. Her father actually is a physician himself, a psychiatrist.

Anyway, she went into the foot spa and they said they knew something was occurring because she started to smile, then she started laughing, and then she started communicating and holding eye contact. So all the behaviors reversed towards the scale of extroversion within that session. At the end of the session, she was just happy. And then she went outside and she started galloping around the back garden. The father said he had never seen her do that behavior her whole life.

 

[00:08:02] Ashley James: Was this temporary or did they continue to see progress with her?

 

[00:08:09] Kellyann Andrews: They continued to see progress with her and her communication skills became more acute. There was another grandmother who had—I forget the age, I think she was six or eight, I think she was eight—an interesting story because she was always constantly having to check in with the mother when she was trying to write anything to find the words to assist her in the process. But as they noticed when she progressed through the sessions, she started to be able to initiate the sentences by herself. And then the grandmother called her an inventor because in the end she was just happily creating all these different stories and very finite articulate communication skills were occurring without the mother’s help anymore.

 

[00:09:07] Ashley James: I love it. I spoke recently to one of our listeners and she said that she’s had such great success with the PES. She’s really into holistic health and she has a son who I think participated in the Special Olympics so he’s quite athletic. But her husband’s really not into anything holistic, and they all got the flu, which I noticed any time I feel like we’re catching something like the cold or flu which isn’t often but when we do, we jump in the PES. We notice it speeds up our healing time. 

So her husband was suffering the most out of everyone in the household probably because he didn’t take care of himself a great deal, and she exclaimed that it helped him so much to get better quicker that it started to almost make him a believer in holistic health. She was excited to notice that, but that’s what I noticed.

Our son has been doing the PES I think since about three, but he would come to us in the morning if he started feeling like he had sniffles or had a cold and he’d ask us for the foot treatment. I thought that was really cute. Without us prompting him, he said, “I want the foot treatment,” because he really did notice he started to feel better after it. That’s fun. Talking about focusing on detox, cellular health, and resilience, I’d like to get into that. How can we support ourselves to the point where we’re creating resilience?

 

[00:10:59] Kellyann Andrews: That is such a great question because toxicity and illness go hand in hand. That’s what Bruce Lipton was addressing in his book, The Biology of Belief. The focus needs to turn back into the body. We’re always looking outside of our body for the causative factors, but we’re forgetting that it’s the internal environment within the body that is such a key aspect because that is the key to the genetic expression of the epigenetics. 

Whether health or illness is being expressed either on a physical level, emotional, or mental, the mindset, the attitude, and emotions are such a key thing as to what is actually environmentally going on inside the body. So at the core of health, there’s one major aspect, and that’s whether you feel safe or not. That’s the bottom line. It’s so interesting to come across this research. 

It’s your own thoughts and feelings that you’re expressing that are communicating to the brain and the brain’s communicating to the body of whether you feel safe or not. So the brain and the body then activate a response accordingly to whether you feel safe or not, and that in turn activates your nervous system into action.

Now, if you feel safe, you activate the parasympathetic nervous system. But if you don’t feel safe, then you activate the sympathetic nervous system, which is the fight and flight response. This, at the core, is so important because just think about it for a second, Ashley. When you feel safe, how does that feel in your body? What does safe feel like in your body?

 

[00:13:27] Ashley James: Calm, warm, restful, peaceful.

 

[00:13:33] Kellyann Andrews: Exactly. So guess what you are communicating to the brain and the brain is communicating to the nervous system. When you feel safe, your body functions come literally back online because you are in a relaxed, at ease, mellow space. But what happens is that when the body and the brain respond to stress—that feeling of not safe—you activate something that’s called the cell danger response. So not safe again activates that fight and flight response, and the brain has sensors in it. So these sensors are monitoring the entire system the whole entire time like the control tower at the airport.

It’s monitoring what are the oxygen and pH levels in the body. Of course, stress and toxicity decrease oxygen and increase acidity. So now, the brain starts signaling a not safe alert and the cell danger response turns on. Now, this system of alerts was designed as a short-term response. But the trouble nowadays with COVID ongoing is it’s turned into chronic stress. So it’s become long-term stress and what that causes in the body is the cell danger response to be stuck on. When that happens, then the body is being triggered by those negative emotions and negative thoughts. When the body feels not safe, the person feels agitation, anxiety, and fear.

What happens when the body is in that feeling of not safe? It’s in the fight and flight response so here’s how the body responds. It’s set up to flee. The blood goes to the limbs. The energy is increased in the body so the body puts out more glucose. The heart rate goes up, adrenaline comes up, blood flow increases so it brings more oxygen and nutrients. The respiration increases, digestion, and immunity go down, and susceptibility and vulnerability go up.

This is where the bad microorganisms, the pathogens move into the body and when the stress is chronic, that’s what turns into chronic infections. So now you have a situation of inflammation, and the inflammation is caused by inflamed thoughts and feelings. I mean, when you just look at it so logically, you can just see. 

So the key thing is that in that moment of stress, whatever that is that hits the button of reacting within your body being in nature, we’ve got to stay conscious in that moment because the fight and flight response takes you to the hindbrain and you just go into the step on the cat’s tail reaction. You’ve got to catch yourself in that moment because if you can consciously shift back to the parasympathetic nervous system, which is activated by feelings of safe, it governs your digestion, your immunity, your respiration, your heart health, your brain health, your ability to detoxify, and it also brings down inflammation.

So in the moment of stress, it is just so interesting to see and just look at this in your own life—how are you responding in that moment of stress? Because what is happening is you’re telling yourself, your biocomputer, and all of your biologies that you’re not safe and so you go into that fight and flight response. But what we need to shift to is to realize the impact that our negative emotions and thoughts are having on our biochemistry. 

So anxiety, worry, anger, frustration—they’re all causing the sympathetic nervous system to go into overdrive in the fight and flight response, and it’s all activated by what you’re thinking. But what it’s affecting is your organs—your liver, your kidneys, your lungs, your spleen. And this all occurs when a person feels unsafe. So isn’t it interesting, Ashley, how Louise Hay completely focused on this in that if you look at her affirmations, she always brought in I am safe. So she intuitively got it, but she didn’t really understand the science behind it. 

But even on a mental level, it impacts the body because the interesting thing about the body is the body only knows now. Whether the stressor is real or imagined, so it could be a negative projection, it could be anticipation, it could be an actual restriction or even a sense of loss of freedom. All of these are stressors and they all bring our ability to heal, repair, and have the immune system active. It all decreases all of the above. So what we have instead is a higher level of acidity and toxicity, and that also impacts the fight and flight response, impacts the body’s ability to detoxify itself. It actually inhibits the body to detoxify.

 

[00:20:33] Ashley James: I mean, we talk about detoxification as a concept. I think when people hear detox, they think of some major cleanse like doing a liver detox, a liver cleanse, or a colon cleanse. My neighbor, who knows I’m into holistic health, texted me the other day and said, “I want to do a lung and colon cleanse.” I think he even used the word detox. He wanted to detox his lungs, and I said, “Listen, we need to actually sit down and talk about this.” So we had a call. Because there’s one thing to think about detox as an annual sort of cleaning of the house. Sometimes people do a spring detox, like a spring cleaning where they drink a bunch of juice, do a bunch of yoga, and they just do like a week’s worth, a weekend, or something. 

Sometimes people will do a fast, but it’s this idea that it’s separate from the rest of our routine and our life and that it’s this one time a year. It’s like taking letting the body have a vacation and we just nurture the body in this cleanse or detox session. But why is it actually important to focus on supporting the body’s ability to detoxify every day and incorporating that even into coming into the holidays? Especially now with the higher levels of stress and coming into a time where people might be drinking more, eating more sugar, taking less notice of what they’re putting in their body. What kind of routines can people incorporate on a small scale, on a day-to-day basis that supports cellular health?

 

[00:22:20] Kellyann Andrews: Where do we begin? I loved what you said there because the point is that it isn’t a once a year kind of event, it’s every day. I mean, would you clean your house once a year? Would you clean your car once a year? You do clean the chimney once a year, but that’s about the only thing. 

The body gets clogged up by a continuum of toxicity coming into it. And as you mentioned at the beginning, the volume of chemicals that are now on the planet that we’re exposed to. The unfortunate part is that the planet has become 100 times more toxic in just 30 years. So a lot of these women that I’m assisting have children within that category of the last 30 years. The wonderful thing about children is that they do respond quicker because they haven’t been on the planet as long. But the unfortunate thing for the children is that they have been on the planet when it’s been the most toxic. 

So there are so many different aspects that you can address, and the key of course is you’ve got to get the body moving. You’ve got to get the lymphatic system moving. I mean, there are so many different ways to be able to assist that, but the most important thing is that we’ve always got to bring back into the formula the emotional aspect. So if you’re going to go do exercise, don’t do something that you absolutely hate doing or that you’re resenting that you’re having to get up at 5:00 AM in the morning and go to the gym in the cold. Do something that makes you feel good, that you enjoy, that you love doing. 

Being out in nature is the most quieting thing to the human nervous system and just to tune in. I remember when COVID first happened, I just stood on my porch and listened to the birds. I thought well the birds don’t know anything about all this that’s going on, and they were sounding so joyful and so chirpy because the noise of the humans had come down. So the joy of the birds had come up. 

So when you can just tune your sensory perceptions into what makes you feel alive, what makes you feel energized, what makes you feel good? What are those things? Whether it’s aromatherapy, yoga, tai chi, or Shiba Fa, the key thing is to move the body. And when you do it in a method that’s slow and purposeful with the breath, you just have so much greater impact because the key is that when we get these toxins on board internally, toxins are inhibiting our bodies to detoxify themselves. They’re actually causing what I call log jam beaver dam. 

Toxins are poisoning the nerve’s sensory perceptions and inhibiting the signaling communication of the body. The body’s ability to censor what’s going on in different parts, and it’s affecting our arcadian rhythms. So that’s where you see people with sleep disturbances, agitation, restlessness, and anxiety. When the body has so much on board in terms of toxic content, it destabilizes the cell membranes. It poisons the tissue and the enzymes. It poisons the entire neurological system. 

Here’s an example of a woman that we met. Actually, she was a spa director at Sofia a few years ago. We were there, we had the equipment, and so we were giving sessions to the spa people. We walked in and this woman, I have to tell you, looked like she had—you spoke about partying—the world’s worst hangover. I mean, she just had this hangdog look. So I just said try to be polite, “What happened to you?” So then she said that she had just found out that she was living in a house that was full of mold. And she was down in your area. The volume of rain in the wintertime there, it’s not surprising. Anybody in that zone hasn’t got massive mold issues.

She was experiencing physically in her body that she had an extreme amount of fatigue, and at that time, why she had the hangover look was because she was just completely in a brain fog. I mean, her face was white. Her whole disposition was completely submerged. So what happened in the process of her detoxifying is that she released a lot of fatty content, and that was what was clogging up her lymph system. So of course, that was causing the inflammation in her body. So the sinuses started to drain the, lymph nodes behind the ears that were swollen actually shrunk during the session, which was really awesome. And at the end of it, her brain fog was completely gone. She was so thrilled, amazed, and shocked. She said, “This is the first time I’ve done any kind of intervention where I’ve had such dramatic results in the first session.” 

But the interesting thing is that Dr. Stephen Genius is a doctor here in Edmonton, Canada. He said, and this makes such sense when you think about it, “The idea that heavy metals, chemicals are harmful to our bodies, and that they are in fact preventing our bodies from detoxifying effectively is the key to our present and future state of health. The body forces constantly are in a fight mode to try to stay healthy. Toxic chemicals and heavy metals compromise our immune system. Our detoxification organs—liver, lungs, kidney, colon, skin—cannot function properly to remove the toxicity.” 

That’s what you saw in the case with this woman with mold was that her body was already compromised, and then she got assaulted with one more thing that literally just caused the dominoes to go backward in the wrong direction. 

So it’s been such an interesting journey to see all these people coming in. The trouble nowadays, as you understand Ashley, is that 200 plus diseases and more are all increasing daily and they’re all autoimmune. So autoimmune diseases are diseases of contamination. It affects the body organs because what happens is the toxicity attaches to protein molecules and they’re contaminated. Now, they go throughout the body and they attach to healthy tissue, and the immune system finds them and it tries to clean them out and it goes after them. 

So it’s misunderstood that the body is attacking itself. What it’s trying to do is just move the toxicity out. The bottom line is that we got to clean out this toxicity. For example, Ashley, with your own body, what signals and symptoms cue you that it’s time that you need to detox? What is the feeling inside your body?

 

[00:31:32] Ashley James: Well, when I was younger, I became very in tune with my body because I had an allergy to dairy. So for the first six years of my life, I wasn’t on a restricted diet. My parents didn’t know any better, I ate dairy, and was feeling sick all the time. I had a sore throat. Luckily, I didn’t develop ear infections, which is incredibly common for children who drink cow milk. But I did have constant sore throats, and sore throats for me was the first sign that my body was weakened. And then I have burning in the eyes and I’d feel tired.

And then we went to Dr. D’Adamo in Toronto. He had a clinic in Toronto and I believe a clinic in Philadelphia. I was six years old and he said you need to stop eating milk, yeast, wheat, and sugar. And overnight, my mom transformed our kitchen. So I grew up, from then on, living on soy milk, no sugar, and very less gluten, I suppose. We didn’t know gluten was back then, but we didn’t have any wheat in the house.

What I noticed is that my resilience went through the roof because I almost never got sick, and when I did, it would always start with a sore throat. That was my body saying you’re run down. If I pulled an all-nighter because I’m a kid, I don’t want to go to bed, and I’m at a birthday party or something or at a sleepover. But when I would run myself down or if I snuck a bunch of candy at Halloween, my body, when it was run down, would start with a sore throat. That was always my body’s saying okay, even if I didn’t have an infection my body would get a sore throat telling me it’s time to back up, rest, and start following a better protocol.

And then as I got older, that wasn’t my body’s first response. Since I’ve been pregnant, exhaustion because, of course, hormones in pregnancy are kind of crazy. I’ve had about four hormone-induced migraines, which started with the aura during my pregnancy, especially in the first and the beginning of the second trimester where I got the aura. I had blind spots like I couldn’t see in front of me, and I wasn’t afraid because I knew what was happening. I know it’s a migraine coming on that’s induced by hormones.

So I got the spots. The spots kind of clouding my vision I could hardly see. And what I have done each time to prevent it from becoming a full-blown migraine because I would never take any kind of pain medication, especially during pregnancy, right? I took the Magnesium Cream from livingthegoodlifenaturally.com. I love their Magnesium Soak and I got the Magnesium Cream. Listeners have heard it. If they’ve been listening to the show, they know how much I love that. There’s a coupon code, LTH, and I use that cream—the Magnesium Muscle Cream—and I rub it all over my neck. I drink plenty of water and then I jump in the PES. I get a session of PES and then I lie down in a darker room just to hang out. Each time, it has stopped the migraine in its tracks.

 

[00:35:20] Kellyann Andrews: Awesome.

 

[00:35:21] Ashley James: I know, it’s just amazing. That would have been a full day’s worth of suffering. Because when you get the aura, you have about two hours before it becomes—I mean, everyone’s different right, but for me, I have about two hours before it’s a full-on migraine. Each time I followed that procedure and I found that it was just so remarkably quick how I could just stop the inflammation in its tracks.

 

[00:35:48] Kellyann Andrews: Let me give you insight around that because I’ve had a series of car accidents in my life, and my poor head has been crushed too many times. Anyway, I used to get those visual—what do you call it—prism. A prism light where it’s almost like you’re looking in through the crystals that hang down from the chandeliers.

 

[00:36:16] Ashley James: Distortion.

 

[00:36:17] Kellyann Andrews: Yeah, distortion and just like those weird mirrors in the circus. So anyway, one time it happened to me when I was out driving. Luckily, at that time, I was just coming back into the car and so I sat down. But I had just been to the health food store and in the front seat, I happened to have a whole bunch of biochemical tissue salts. The tissue salt line the Schuessler is the originator of it, and then Hylands is the brand. Well anyway, I had in the car #6, #8, and #10. So I just immediately started taking them like crazy about every 5 minutes, and within about 10 or 15 minutes, the whole thing completely disappeared. I had no headache, nothing. Because I always use my body as the field test. It’s like, okay body, is this what you want?

So it’s always a question of experience and experiment. So what I came to realize was those migraines, because the brain is so hypersensitive to acidity and so are the eyes, that it was an acidity symptom. So you did exactly the right thing because magnesium is an alkalizer, and then you went to the foot spa and that detoxified you of the acid. So when you download the acid and you uptake the nutrients that alkalize you, bingo, immediately there’s a shift.

Now, here’s an example, which is really quite interesting. So there was a woman who was opening a clinic during COVID. Can you imagine? I mean, opening a clinic at any time would be unbelievably stressful, and just the logistics of all that entails. But she was opening it in COVID time. I mean, if we want to talk about fight and flight, she was about 1000%. Anyway, I had her test her pH before the session. Then I usually wait about 20 minutes to half an hour after the session, if possible, because that gives the body that little bit of time to recalibrate, as I call it. Because we were doing a draining, she just went ahead and did the pH before, then she did the pH right when she came out of the system, and then I had her do it half an hour later.

So what was so interesting to see was before her session, her pH score was 6.5. After her session, her pH was 5. For me, my God, this thing’s supposed to rebalance my pH. What the heck happened? But then, I had her take it half an hour later and her score was up to 7.5. So what happened there was prior to her session, she had a mineral drink and it was full of alkalizing agents. So she brought her pH level up so I called that an influencer. That she took an influencer prior to her session. So the 6.5 was her influencer score, but after her session, that was her native score where her body was really at. Then having dumped the acid, and we knew she dumped the acid because her feet exfoliated like crazy. We’ve tested the water and we know that acid water helps get rid of all that dead epidermal skin.

So then we had a retest in half an hour later—having dumped the heavy metals, having dumped the acid—now she was at 7.5.

 

[00:40:40] Ashley James: When someone gets your foot spa—I think the term foot spa really doesn’t do it justice. It’s six different complicated technologies in one, and doesn’t it come with pH test strips?

 

[00:41:01] Kellyann Andrews: Yes.

 

[00:41:03] Ashley James: And they’re great. It’s my favorite brand, in fact, of the pH test strips that it comes with. It’s so much fun to test yourself before and after and see that, in fact, your pH does become even healthier after doing it. But you also did some interesting work with athletes, I believe. That you saw that it decreases lactic acid in the body. Can you talk a bit about that?

 

[00:41:29] Kellyann Andrews: Yeah. When the other people that have very high levels of lactic acid are people with Lyme. So we tested both Lyme patients and actually Olympic athletes. These Olympic athletes, I mean, if you want to talk about a diagnostic ability, these guys in the gym and the equipment that is available to them and the fine-tuning. I mean, their fine-tuning is just shaving seconds off their performance, but those seconds can make a difference between being a gold and a bronze. So their ability to monitor what is happening in the body is phenomenal—the equipment they have.

Anyway, so what they found was they had the athlete do his training performance. I mean, some of these people in what they do with the athletes—I mean, I feel so sorry for athletes—they actually train them to exhaustion. There’s almost not left in them. Then the pH got tested and the acidity was very high, but the lactic acid level was skyscraper high. So then what they did was they let the body just recalibrate and readjust after that normal adaption to see what the level of resilience was, and then test their agility, their flexibility, and their timing. I mean, it’s just so amazing how finite it is

So then what happened was did the same thing all over again, but this time after the training event put them in the foot spa. At the end of the foot spa, retested the lactic acid and it was street level again. And it’s really interesting because working with people with Lyme, we’ve also seen this recovery aspect. I mean, I’ve had so many Lyme patients phone me up and say yours is my go-to because it’s the only thing that makes me feel good. But you just think about that acid in the body. I mean, if you have acid on your skin, you know exactly what that feels like. Well, can you imagine what a poor little nerve cell feels like? I mean, it’s just incredibly overwhelming to the nervous system that level of acid, and it just so undermines the whole entire performance of the body and the body’s ability to be able to operate at any kind of level.

The number one thing that the body will do is to focus on getting that acid out of the body. We know that from examples of diseases such as arthritis where the body is literally cannibalizing itself in terms of its skeletal system because it can’t find enough alkalizing nutrients or minerals in the body. So it will pull from whatever sources it has because the body’s number one mission is to stay at a conscious level. That’s its number one function is to stay conscious, and it will sacrifice all other aspects. 

So when we do things like extreme sports, extreme stress, or staying up overnight, we just completely knock the body’s balance and rhythm out of orbit. And then the body has to try to recalibrate, but it’s that recovery. How quickly are you recovering from these broadsiding events—the setbacks, the stressors? And that tells you a whole lot about where your body’s at. And if you’re able to recover quickly, then your systems are online. But if it’s taking you a long time to recover and you’re what I call dragging anchor through life, then you know that your reserves are low. But the number one thing is that you’ve got a high level of acidity on board.

 

[00:45:58] Ashley James: So you’d brought up what I notice in my body when I’m just starting to feel run down, acidic, or just noticing higher toxicity. I think that’s something really important to acknowledge that we need to become in tune with the first steps, the first signs that we’re going down the wrong path. Back before I cut out a lot of unhealthy foods in my diet, I just felt bad all the time and so that was kind of like my normal. I didn’t know because I was habituated. I didn’t know that was my normal.

A lot of people are walking around eating foods that inflame them, living a lifestyle that inflames them, and then they have to compensate by drinking lots of caffeine in the morning, drinking alcohol at night, up-regulate themselves, downregulate themselves, taking aspirin or Advil, taking in sugar just to manage, just to try to get through the day. They’re using substances.

 

[00:47:06] Kellyann Andrews: Self-medicating.

 

[00:47:07] Ashley James: Self-medicating throughout the day just to survive, and if we’re unconscious about that, we’ll just continue to drive our health deeper and deeper into the ground. And then you take that person and you get them off of—I’m going to say for me it was dairy, gluten, pesticide food, GMO food, and they’re eating less processed foods. So avoid flour as much as possible. So now you’re eating foods that are just whole plants, whole foods.

 

[00:47:44] Kellyann Andrews: I call it food in God’s format.

 

[00:47:46] Ashley James: God food. So walking through the Garden of Eden. I like to call it single-ingredient food. There’s an apple, I eat it. For those who choose to eat animals, just choose something that’s closest to nature as possible. Not a factory farm, but something that lived in a pasture and was very happy about its whole life eating organic, and living a full life that didn’t involve a factory farm. That makes a difference. You take that person off of everything that inflames them, and then a month goes by and they have a new normal. And then if you give them the old foods that inflame them, they, all of sudden, feel like they have a hangover the next day. That’s how I feel.

I remember the first time, we had cut out all alcohol because we decided to go sugar-free. Not that either one of us drank excessively. We would drink socially, but we cut out all alcohol, all sugar, we went gluten-free, and we were eating 100% organic. I remember we went down for Thanksgiving, this was 10 years ago just coming up to our 10-year anniversary. We each had a shot of Crown Royal. I don’t know what it is about Crown Royal, I always used to love it. I think it was just one shot each but we ended up, on the way home—because it was a three-, a four-hour drive home from Portland to Seattle with the traffic—we had both splitting headaches.

By the time we got home, we were hungover. We had splitting headaches and we felt as though we had partied all night long and had a hangover already. We hadn’t even had the opportunity to sleep, and we thought that’s so interesting that we came from such a clean diet and then went back to eating just sugar, dairy, and whatever was served basically at thanksgiving. How quickly our body said, no, don’t do that.

 

[00:49:53] Kellyann Andrews: You’re body said what the heck?

 

[00:49:55] Ashley James: What the heck? And that was us feeling the body revolting from feeding it poison. So if we eat poison all the time, we’re habituated, and that’s our new normal. But then when we take it up to the next level, now our new normal feeling even more energy, vitality. Once we start cleaning up our diet, we need to be in tune with what it feels like to start to go backward, slip backward? What is your body’s first warning system for slipping backward? For some people, it actually starts with emotions. We cannot disconnect the emotional body from the physical body.

So when we eat certain foods, we can have an emotional response, and it’s very apparent in children. You give children too much sugar, they become frustrated easily. They have temper tantrums. They cannot control their emotions very well. Adults do too, but we mask it a little better than them, and we ignore and push aside our emotions. We don’t realize that when you eat things that are inflaming your body, it can actually come out as feeling angry, frustrated, losing your temper quicker in certain circumstances, or everyone’s irritating you. So you feel normal but everyone else is to blame.

 

[00:51:18] Kellyann Andrews: Isn’t it interesting how toxic thoughts create toxic substances, and toxic substances create toxic thoughts?

 

[00:51:26] Ashley James: I think we just have to check in with ourselves and each go—for me it could be fatigue, it might be my first sign that my body’s going in the wrong direction or becoming more acidic, needing a detox, needing to come back to the foundations of health. And it can be something as simple as what does dehydration feels like in you? This morning I woke up and I felt like I’m a little dehydrated. I’m going to really push the water, even more, today and get in some minerals. I checked in with myself, but if we don’t check-in and go, okay, I have a little bit of tension in my shoulders. I might be wearing my stress. My mom would say don’t wear your shoulders like earrings.

 

[00:52:11] Kellyann Andrews: Yeah, that’s a great expression. That is classic.

 

[00:52:15] Ashley James: Right. We both would wear our emotional stress in our physical body, and so we have to check-in. Check-in with yourself as you wake up in the morning, where’s the tension? Is there tension? Are you tired, or do you have mental clarity? Are you wide awake? Are you happy? Are you irritated? What’s going on? Your body is telling you right now if there’s something off or not, and it can be something very simple like really getting back to a cleaner diet. It can be needing to shift your thoughts into less toxic thoughts. I mean, it could be an accumulation of many things, but it does take checking in every day and then making little adjustments every day. That makes the biggest difference.

You’ve talked about why is it so important to have these healing thoughts rather than toxic thoughts. Because our body’s always listening to our internal dialogue, our body creates the stress response based on what we’re thinking and what we’re focusing on. So it is true that toxic thoughts create toxicity in the body and vice versa.

 

[00:53:21] Kellyann Andrews: Now the interesting thing is to see how broad range the signals or the symptoms of toxicity are in the body. So we already talked about fatigue, brain fog, and what I call dragging anchor. We talked about the headaches and the migraines, but mental confusion—a drugged kind of feeling—and then, of course, the classics are puffy eyes, baggy eyes, dark circles under the eyes. But most people will just try to minimize that they have gas, indigestion, irritable bowels, and reflux. They try to just ignore those signs, but the trouble with the body is the volume is very low at first and it increases up to a scream when you don’t attend.

So if people have sluggish or slow elimination, then that’s going to show up as acne and skin issues. But it’s so interesting, Ashley. I have people phone me up all the time and say how come I’ve never had this issue before and now they’re 40, 50, or 60. When the beginning, people used to phone us up when they were in their 50s, 60s, and 70s with degenerative issues. But now, we have people phoning us up in their 20s, 30s, and 40s with what used to be considered degenerative senior citizens diseases. But nowadays, we’re hearing that even teenagers are having heart attacks.

So some of the other symptoms that where you need to detox, the one classic one that people phone up all the time is about achy joints and muscles or stiffness. But even slight things like people have a low-grade fever, but the feeling level, the ones where people aren’t recognizing these are symptoms of needing to detox is depression, anxiety, anger, sadness, frustration, irritability, restricted breathing, sleep issues, restlessness, and pain. A lot of people aren’t associating that with the need to detox.

So I always say if you have symptoms in your body, you have toxicity on board. I was watching someone else’s podcast or video the other day, and this person specializes in toxicology issues. They were saying that 90% of illnesses out there are related to toxicology issues.

 

[00:56:26] Ashley James: Scary.

 

[00:56:28] Kellyann Andrews: It’s pretty astounding. But when you think, if you have an environment that’s highly acidic, it’s full of heavy metals, it’s got agriculture and industrial chemicals in it, the more toxins that are present, the more parasites love that environment. Parasites thrive in the toxic environment, and what does that do in the body? That decreases your circulation, it increases what I call a log jam or beaver dam where it impedes the flow of blood and lymph through the body, and basically, people have clog ups in circulation. Of course, that’s exactly what edema is. But they’ll have a clog up on an organ level. The increase of toxicity in the body causes increased inflammation.

But the saddest thing that I ever am exposed to is these poor children that are either ADHD, autism, or along that line, and they’re experiencing brain inflammation. What happens is that when the lymph system up to the brain gets clogged up—one of the things that have really been endorsed these days and I really need to bring this to people’s attention are the keto and paleo diets where they’re really emphasizing a lot of protein and a lot of fats. But what I’m witnessing in all our clients is that’s what’s clogging up their lymph system because they’ve got a hyper acidic environment and then they got all these fats on board. The liver and the gallbladders are not responding to be able to that load of fat in the body. It’s not digesting it and it’s clogging up the system.

So now, up to the brain, it’s congesting the circulation to the brain. Now the brain goes into an edemic kind of state. It becomes swollen, but because the brain cannot expand because of the skull, that’s where you’re seeing these children that are experiencing inflammation in the brain and they’re knocking their heads on the ground to try to stop the pain, to numb the pain. I mean, it’s just so horrifying. But what they’re finding now is that it’s the vagus nerve that controls the parasympathetic nervous system, and the vagus nerve is what actually Dr. Klinghardt has found. That 90% plus of his patients all have toxic vagus nerves.

 

[00:59:29] Ashley James: Can you explain for those who don’t know? What is the vagus nerve? What’s it responsible for? Why is it so important?

 

[00:59:36] Kellyann Andrews: Yeah. It’s the control tower at the airport. So the interesting thing is that what inhibits the vagus nerve—before I answer that question—is toxic thoughts, toxic substances, chemicals, and heavy metals, stress and stress patterns, physical toxicity, and of course the vagus nerve is right up above the jawline. That’s where all of the dental issues are manifesting, and so of course amalgam fillings, heavy metals, and all the chemicals that they use in dentistry are completely toxifying that. Of course, then you have viruses and infections.

The bottom line of the vagus nerve—so what happens is you have, first of all, the human nervous system. You have the autonomic nervous system covering all unconscious functions such as digestion, heart rate, respiration. So the vagus nerve is the signal highway that connects the brain to the rest of the body. It connects to the digestive organs, the liver, the lungs, the spleen, the kidney. It’s how the body monitors blood sugar’s heart rate, respiration, oxygen levels. The vagus nerve is the on and off switch for the parasympathetic nervous system and the sympathetic nervous system.

 

[01:01:19] Ashley James: So when you say Dr. Klinghardt, who we’ve had on the show. He’s the one that turned me on to the Platinum Energy System because he has had great success with the last 40 years working with children on the spectrum and seeing that detoxing them of heavy metals and eliminating things that are causing them to have inflammation, but especially detoxifying heavy metals from their brain. That they go from, for example, being unable to speak or hitting their head—nonverbal, to being able to make eye contact, talk, emotion, communicate in such a short period of time. 

He’s been doing this for 40 years, and one of the big things he uses is your system in his clinic. He recommends his patients, especially those with Lyme disease, although he does have a lot of autoimmune patients that are sort of mystery patients, and he’s great at working with them as well. He’s been doing this for over 40 years. So I had Dr. Klinghardt on the show. But that’s what made me so fascinated was that we could speed up the detoxification of organs such as the brain to remove heavy metals using this method, and that was quite exciting.

He says most of his patients though have vagus nerve, inflammation, or toxicity. What does that mean to have nerve toxicity?

 

[01:03:04] Kellyann Andrews: That whole understanding is that you have a clogged lymph system going up to the brain. It causes inflammation, basically, through the neck, the carotid artery, and all of that area. The circulation is limited, so now the brain can’t get the nutrients up into it. But even more so, at night, you can’t get the toxicity out of it. So now, everything that’s up there is getting locked in and saturating into the tissues. So heavy metals are the number one thing that they’re finding that is inside the nerves.

What they’ve also found is that the heavy metals are like a doorway for how the toxicity or the heavy metals are actually using the nerves as a pathway. So when the vagus nerve gets toxic, it affects everything downstream, as I said, all those different organs. So what they’re seeing with vagus nerve toxicity is symptoms such as autoimmune, brain, and memory issues, anxiety, arthritis, even anorexia and bulimia, autism, infections, parasites, fungal, viral, bacterial. And then all of a sudden, because it controls the blood sugars as well, people are becoming insulin resistive. It also controls heart health, digestive issues, and systemic inflammation.

So people are experiencing things like fatigue, food sensitivity, nerve pain, fibromyalgia, heart issues, migraines, tendonitis, MS, mood disorders, and on and on and on because you just think of all of the organs that the vagus nerve connects with. Well, if the vagus nerve is toxic, the vagus nerve is not functioning normally, and now the sympathetic nervous system is on overdrive because of the stress levels, and people can’t go into rest and digest mode anymore. 

You see people who have insomnia, what happens is when the brain gets too toxic, the whole entire brain area is antagonistic because of the hyperacidity because that’s not the environment it was designed to be in, slight alkalinity it was. And now, that’s just driving the nerves crazy. So it’s sort of like a mouse or a gerbil on a wheel. It just won’t settle down, and that’s why you find people that cannot sleep at night or they wake up and their brain is just like that mouse on a wheel.

 

[01:06:30] Ashley James: So many people have problems with anxiety and then they will become so desperate they turn to medication, which makes the system more toxic because it stresses the liver. Any time we take a medication—this is something really important to know. You can google this. This isn’t like far out there. It’s known, and it’s actually taught to MDs, but they don’t really stress it enough. Every medication, both prescribed and over the counter depletes, the body of something—vitamin C, CoQ10, and many, many different minerals. It takes the body effort to process. The liver has to process a man-made chemical. Medications are artificial.

Now, I’m not here saying don’t ever get on medication, medication is bad. What I’m saying is that we have to be very cautious, and we have to understand that any time we take one, it does harm the body. We need to be aware of that.

 

[01:07:40] Kellyann Andrews: The other thing is that it stops its signaling ability. Antidepressants, I mean, it just shuts down the body feeling. It’s a tough one because medications, as you have pointed out, do have their place in acute care. When you’re in the emergency room, you definitely want to have something that will stimulate your heart if your heart stops. However, where we get in trouble with medications is where we take them long term and they weren’t designed for chronic care. They were only designed for acute care. And then you do start to go into the side effects because that’s the accumulative toxicity effect in the body. A lot of times, it’s hyperacidity.

 

[01:08:35] Ashley James: Right. So here we have a person who has, let’s say, the toxicity of the vagus nerve. They are starting to realize they might have that because you’ve mentioned that one of the known symptoms or signs that we have is that we can’t turn it off. We’re constantly worried, we’re constantly stressed. We can’t get out of stress mode.

 

[01:09:07] Kellyann Andrews: Obsessive thinking.

 

[01:09:10] Ashley James: We can’t get into feeling safe mode. We can’t get into healing the parasympathetic nervous system response of rest and digest. That’s definitely a sign that we’ve been probably unhealthy for a while or going down the wrong path for a while. Whenever it finally sinks in, for someone to go, okay, now I need to make changes. I need to find a better direction. How do we start to heal the vagus nerve? How do we start to detoxify that?

 

[01:09:49] Kellyann Andrews: What’s really interesting is that for the longest time, I was just fascinated to watch clients recovering from the process of detoxification. I just thought, wow, it’s so brilliant what is occurring. But the brilliancy is the body knowing what it needs. If we would just trust our bodies to know, I mean, it has thousands of years of intelligence designed into it. That’s what instinct means is that there’s an inner knowing—a GPS system, a true north navigational system—that has the understanding of how to rebalance itself. What we got to do is to create a healing environment, and we need to create an internal environment in which the body can then come optimally on board again online.

What we’ve found by working with clients using our system is that one—the key factor is—get that lymph system moving. Because everybody who comes to us, and believe me, I have clinics sending me their most vulnerable patients. People that they can’t even work with because they have been so chronically sick for so long and they’re in such a state of inflammation and congestion. I call that state cellular constipation where everybody has a clogged lymph system no matter what their symptoms are. The severity of the symptoms equals the severity of the clog up. It’s like an LA freeway in traffic hour, nothing’s happening.

With the immune system, that’s like the UPS trucks can’t leave the warehouse. They can’t deliver the parcels. So when the lymph system’s clogged up, it just log jams the entire body’s circulatory system. So number one, you’ve got to get that lymph system open. You’ve got to get the flow happening because all the other drainage routes downstream will start to work. It’s like, as a simple visual, the liquid Drano commercial. The sink’s all clogged and nothing’s happening, and it sure doesn’t look pleasant either.

So the thing is that once that lymph system is moving, what we see categorically come out are heavy metals and then everything else that shouldn’t be in the body because the body’s wisdom knows what’s a nutrient and what’s a toxic substance. It is trying its hardest to get rid of that toxic substance. But when the exit routes are log jammed and beaver dammed, it tries to get it out any way possible, and of course, that’s when you see it coming out on the skin.

But what we found is that most patients have a history of mold toxicity, and then, of course, parasites, bad microbes, heavy metals, and toxic chemicals. But there is a commonality also with the dental work being done and of course the amalgam fillings, and that’s what’s causing the huge problem, of course, with the vagus nerve.

So you’ve got to open the lymph first. You’ve got to get hat drainage happening, especially out of the brain. Then what you begin to see is that the health returns. And the way that it returns is you decrease the acidity, you increase the oxygen—which increases energy, you increase the blood flow, you increase the lymph flow. Now the body can sleep and relax because its parasympathetic nervous system is back online, you see tension and stiffness go down, you see digestion and elimination go up, ang you see calmness return to the system.

 

[01:14:24] Ashley James: Don’t we all want that? You said we have intuition, and I believe we do. I really feel we’ve been trained to not listen.

 

[01:14:45] Kellyann Andrews: Wait. I need to pause there for one second. You have the right concept but we need to do a slight edit in that sentence. And it’s you that chose that. It’s the person themselves that chose that. What we have to do is we have to retrain the brain because you’re right, in a way. Society has trained us from school onwards to shut down the signals of the body. When you’re in the middle of class, you can’t get up to go to the washroom, it’s inconvenient, or whatever. So we do start to dummy down the signal. The body is brilliant at communicating but the key is are you listening and then are you responding?

 

[01:15:29] Ashley James: So it does take really listening. I interviewed Dr. Alan Goldhamer who co-wrote a book called The Pleasure Trap. It’s a fascinating read and I highly recommend it. He talks about how our brain developed over—however long we’ve been here, thousands of years. That we look to seek pleasure from eating, from reproducing, and from resting. That’s how we survived as long as we’ve survived is that we take the time to rest when we can. We take the time to reproduce, to procreate, to pass on our genetic code, and we eat.

The foods that give us the biggest dopamine hit are the foods that will also have the highest calorie density, and that really helped us a thousand years ago when there wasn’t any processed food. But it doesn’t help us now because now it’s so easy to acquire foods that are high in hyper-palatable ingredients that trigger dopamine. I think that part of it is society has trained us to not listen to our intuition, but we’re also—from a very young age—been marketed to look at substances like food and beverages to increase dopamine, to increase pleasure. We seek dopamine more the unhealthier we are because we have less and less dopamine when we’re sick, when we’re tired, when we’re toxic, when we’re inflamed.

 

[01:17:16] Kellyann Andrews: That’s like wanting to be in the rocking chair, be held, and just feel good. So we’re doing whatever we think on a self-medication level that tries to restore that feel-good aspect. But one of the things that can quickly help you that’s easy is just getting your oxygen levels up in the body because, of course, when the oxygen levels go down, that’s when you feel tense, stiff, tight, and your intercostal muscles can’t expand. So the tight tissue inhibits blood flow. It inhibits the intercostal muscles to have any flexibility for better movement, and then, of course, that even affects the hips in terms of flexibility and the pelvis being able to move freely.

So the more flexible you are, the more oxygen moves through your body, and it’s like the analogy of a fish through water. So the trouble too, which you pinpointed, is our lifestyle these days where we’re living sedentary lives because of our jobs. We’re sitting at a computer where we’re not mobile like we used to be in ancient times. As the stiffness increases, so does the poor circulation, and the body’s more vulnerable to stress and anxiety. So the way we think and how we feel also increases that tension or relaxation. It increases the acidity and toxicity or decreases it by how we physically respond.

So breathing is so not only essential—it can’t last long without it, but it actually will shift a degeneration cycle to a rejuvenation cycle. Chronic stress can be turned around to be instead of chronically stressed, you can be relaxedly alert, and it will improve your digestion, your optimal health. But the trouble is that almost everybody isn’t breathing the right way. 

Now it’s really interesting even with the yogas. The yoga and exercise groups are training people to stop being chest breathers, shallow breathers, just the upper respiratory sort of your upper lung capacity. But they’re using the belly to breathe in and out so the belly should expand and the belly should contract. But in doing the investigation into the best breathing methods was nose breathing.

Now a lot of people have congestion in the sinuses. I mean, that makes it a little tough. But as you start to nose breathe more and more, I’ve found with clients that it starts to open up the upper respiratory, all of the sinuses. So nose breathing is number one to bring up your resilience and your health creation. So try this as a method. Do a big exhale first, but what I want you to focus on is your diaphragm not your belly. So I want you to focus on the diaphragm going up and down like an elevator. 

So now do a big inhale but do it slowly and focus on your diaphragm and really notice how that diaphragm moves down towards the belly button with inhale. Now it’s almost the opposite. So now, when you do a big inhale, bring the diaphragm down, and then once it’s down then continue that inhale, and you have to train yourself to be able to do it. It can be a little frustrating at first because we’re not used to doing it this way, but then what you want to do is you want to take the air down to the lower part of the lung so that you actually expand the intercostal muscles to expand out because that is what creates more capacity and more volume.

So what’s very interesting—tying this back into the nervous system—is that the vagus nerve is connected to the diaphragm. So when you do diaphragmatic breathing, so literally it massages your organs, but it signals your body that you’re safe. So one of the things that you can do in that moment of stress—whatever the stressor is—you catch yourself completely tensing up. As you said, your mother-in-law saying about the shoulders up as earrings. So catch yourself in that moment of stress. Now, in your body somewhere is a center that signals you when you’re uptight.

So a lot of people it’s the gut. As soon as they have the stress moment, they get tight. Usually, people stop breathing or hardly breathe at all. But there’s a place in your body and you just need to find it, and how you find it gets triggered by stress. Find that part in your body that is your signal of stress, and what you do is you breathe right into that. But when you do that diaphragmatic breathing, you literally are choosing at that moment a new choice and the choice is to stay in the parasympathetic nervous system, not move into fight and flight, and just to stay in mellow mode. 

When you stay in mellow mode, you can make brilliant decisions. You see that you have options. You look at your life more from an eagle point of view rather than an ant point of view. To an eagle, it looks down and everything is very small. All the issues in life are just put in perspective. It’s a very wide-angle camera kind of view of life. But when you’re an ant, everything looks like skyscrapers, and that’s when you’re in the sympathetic nervous system mode where you globalize that everything in your life is not working. Where it’s one aspect that’s not working and then you just need to shift back to your forebrain, which is the mammalian side of the creativity of thinking, the front part of the brain.

So the things you can do is one is diaphragm breathing, two is to bring your awareness to your forebrain, which is your thinking center. The back part of the brain is the reactive, animalistic, fight-or-flight part. So bring yourself to the front part of the brain. Now you can do that by actually tapping on the brain or just visually push on the brain because wherever the pressure is the attention goes. So by pushing on the forebrain, you literally cause your awareness to come to the frontal lobes. 

But the other thing you can do is just now, at this moment, look throughout through your eyes very consciously. And if you’re in a room, outside, or whatever, look to see colors and textures as if you’re an artist and you’re going to draw this landscape or whatever. So just really focus on the difference between colors and textures. By coming to the forebrain through your eyes, you’re actually bringing the energy of the brain to the front of the brain and that will bring you into your thinking centers. Then you start to focus on solution orientation. But if you’re in the hindbrain, in fight and flight, you’re totally in that reactive mode, there isn’t any sense of options. There’s just a feeling of entrapment.

 

[01:26:29] Ashley James: Well, I think we’ve really illustrated the point of how physical health, diet, our lifestyle, and our emotions are all connected and they all affect each other.

 

[01:26:48] Kellyann Andrews: Yeah, it’s interesting. On that level, just one more thing—which I think is really important because it ties into both the physical and the emotional—is at what frequency is your body operating at, and that is hugely impacted by your emotions and your thoughts. So when you have a setback, you want to see how quickly your resilience level is in rebounding out of that situation, is it a short-term thing, or are you carrying it forward? Do you continue to re-go over whatever derailment happened or do you move on? But what’s interesting, Ashley, is the frequency aspect of the human body.

Now, healthy is about 58, but when you have a cold of the flu, your frequency drops down to 57. When you have candida overgrowth, it drops to 55. When you’re receptive to Epstein Barr, it drops down to 52. And when you have cancer, it’s 42 and death begins at 25. So it’s so important to keep your frequency at a high level because that will affect everything in your body because your body is designed to operate at that set level. I mean, life is disturbing. It’s like a lake that’s beautifully serene and calm and then all of a sudden these storms come along. What’s your ability to recover from the storm?

 

[01:28:42] Ashley James: How quickly can you bounce back? How soon do you detect that there’s something off, and how quickly will you bounce back?

 

[01:28:50] Kellyann Andrews: One of the keys is your energy level, and that’s why I wanted to bring in frequency because there’s a huge correlation between your energy level and your toxicity level and the impact that it has on the mitochondria inside the cells. Because the mitochondria or your power creators are their energized bunny creators.

So when cells are toxic, they’re inhibited in being able to create energy. We need to make our mitochondria really happy. What makes them happy is breathing, water, and nutrients. So the key to cellular health is creating that energy, and the greatest thing that I’m so happy to share is that thiamine B1, is the fuel source for the mitochondria. It’s so amazing because if you feed the mitochondria, then their ability to do their job is just heightened.

But when the mitochondria aren’t functioning, the nerves aren’t able to fire properly. The acidosis in the body starts to cause edema and inflammation. The glucose utilization goes down. The blood flow goes down. The health in the gut goes down. The whole ability of the autonomic nervous system, its ability to function, and the signal goes down. So it all depends on the mitochondria. The mitochondria are key of course to be able to help the body detoxify.

 

[01:30:57] Ashley James: I just did an interview with the scientists behind Viome, the at-home testing company that helps with understanding what chemicals your bacteria make from the food you eat. Because there are hundreds of thousands of pathways of genetic expressions of your bacteria. Mitochondria are bacteria in our cells, and they have a unique relationship with the bacteria in our gut. They’re actually finding that our gut will send signals to our mitochondria throughout our body and that we want to, obviously, establish a very healthy microbiome that can also help the mitochondria.

We’re just scratching the surface in terms of understanding the importance of the bacteria in our body. Eating foods that contain highly processed foods, sugar, alcohol, oil has even been known to harm the good bacteria in our body while inviting and creating that environment—the petri dish—that allows the unhealthy, not only bacteria, but yeast and parasites to thrive. If people who are not really listening to the body, it isn’t until they’re really sick that they’re noticing a difference. But those of us who really listen and really focus on and listen to our body, we’ll start to feel off fairly soon into going down the wrong path.

That’s why I like doing a symptom inventory checklist. I write down symptoms, and I get all my clients to do this as well. Write down all your symptoms no matter how big or how small, even the ones your doctor says oh you have that because it’s genetic, you have that because of your age, you have that because you’re a woman or because you have a uterus, or because of your work. Whatever it is, write down every symptom you have and then make three columns: frequency, duration, and intensity. 

So how often does it happen is the frequency. Duration, how long does it last? An intensity, on a scale of 1 to 10, how bad is it? Either it’s every how many times a day, how many times a week, how many times a month, and then you come back to that list a month from now. You can also even notice like on times during the full moon and during a new moon, do your symptoms get worse? Is your sleep disrupted during a full moon or new moon? Do you find yourself craving things, more tired? Those are absolute signs that you have an imbalance in the gut, whether it be a parasite, candida, or otherwise.

So we have to listen to the symptoms of the body, and then if your symptoms are getting worse and not better, we really need to pump the brakes and go in a different direction, figure out what’s going on. If you’re staying the same, okay, well that’s good, but let’s see what we can do to improve. Maybe pick one and look at what you can do to improve it. And then if you’re getting better each month, keep at it. It’s a fantastic way to just check in because we often forget.

I had a client once who made some changes to her diet and she started taking supplements and six months later she said I forgot I used to have weekly migraines. She hadn’t had a migraine in six months.

 

[01:34:31] Kellyann Andrews: It was a joy that she forgot.

 

[01:34:33] Ashley James: Yeah, but she was like I can’t believe it. I actually forgot. I had to remind her.

 

[01:34:38] Kellyann Andrews: I know. I see that all the time. It’s so fun people come in with all these derailments, and that’s why I have them—from a nursing background—monitor their own health and chart their progress. And that’s why doing the pH for three days is so awesome because it’s not just one moment in time. Because as we saw with the women who had it at 6.5, it’s what you did right before that made that difference. But when you track it for three days doing it three times a day—both urine and saliva—you get a whole different picture.

 

[01:35:10] Ashley James: Listeners can go back and hear our episode all about pH that we did.

 

[01:35:18] Kellyann Andrews: That was 293.

 

[01:35:20] Ashley James: Yeah, that was episode 293. You’ve shared stories in the past, but after sharing this information with us, do you have any more stories of client recoveries, returning to health after changing these factors in their life?

 

[01:35:39] Kellyann Andrews: Yeah. I mean, I could go on for days.

 

[01:35:43] Ashley James: Please do.

 

[01:35:44] Kellyann Andrews: It’s just so amazing. We had one girl who came to us, and she actually had down syndrome. Her own mom described her as a zombie, which is just really sad. But anyway, she had a series of sessions, huge lymph clog up, and then a massive download of other content including heavy metals. But it was like she popped out of the cocoon. She was so incredibly internalized and then she became literally like a butterfly just so outgoing and gregarious. When the downs people smile, it’s like their whole body lights up. But what happened was she initially had sessions at a clinic and then the mother purchased. So it was a month before we were able to actually do them in her home environment, and in that month’s period of time she clogged all up again.

So by the time she got back home, she was back in the cocoon again. I assisted her in the first session over the phone and it was so amazing because the mom said during the session she said oh, I think she’s feeling better because she’s smiling big time. So then, after the session, mom and I were doing the cleanup, tidy up, and all of the procedural stuff. So then I said we’ll have her go and just go check in with her body and see how she feels.

Well, she came back into the room and she was clapping, dancing, and singing around the room and I could hear her. I think that’s just such a perfect illustration, image, and visualization for all of us in whatever life experiences we’re having, especially in this COVID time where you just feel like you’re in a box and there are no doors. Can you imagine what this poor girl felt inside her body not being able to communicate? We’ve actually had autistic children have a series of sessions.

A teenager, I remember one time, after she cleared enough of this toxic content out of her body being in the brain, she was able to communicate what her experience was. One of the things was that she would never let anybody touch her and that she had to dress herself. Well, that sort of drove the family crazy because she was so slow in the process. But later she told the reason that was because her skin was burning, and if anybody touched her, it was just super painful.

 

[01:38:43] Ashley James: Do you have any stories that you can share of long-term working with your system for a while? What kind of results do people get after long-term use?

 

[01:38:58] Kellyann Andrews: I mean, whatever they experience in the short term just becomes more pronounced over time. We’ve had people who have been with us since 2004, and it’s been a fun journey because I had this one man. I think he came to us when he was in his 60s, and he was in quite a state. He had heavy metal toxicity‚ really extremely, and he had to literally go out and stand in the snow to calm down the burning of his feet. 

After a series of sessions, he no longer needed that. Now he’s in his 80s and he phones me up and he’s just chirping away like a robin in springtime. He’s just so outgoing, energetic, gregarious, and just a happy camper. He says, “When I came to you in my 60s, I was really going downhill rapidly and I just didn’t even want to be here. But now, I get up at 6:00 AM in the morning. Do you know all those people that have to have a cup of coffee? Not me. I get up and I’m just ready to go.”

 

[01:40:20] Ashley James: I love it.

 

[01:40:21] Kellyann Andrews: So it’s really fun, but one of the cases that happened recently that really astounded me because I’ve seen a lot of people coming out of themselves, so to speak, when they’re introverted and going extroverted. But this man was really unusual. He grew up in a toxic sort of like an Erin Brockovich story. He grew up in one of the most toxic cities in New Jersey. They actually told me what it was but I can’t remember what it was now. It’s probably better I don’t tell anyway. So he ended up with cancer and went the traditional route in which then they did chemotherapy, radiation, CAT scans, dyes, meds, and the whole pathway.

So anyway, by the time I got to be with him, it was actually his wife who was my client. But she actually had crashed her own body because she was caretaking him, and that’s sometimes what we see is the caretakers end up going first because they’re so exhausted. But in this case, she asked me to look after him while she used the system to balance her issues out.

So I did the first session with both of them, and I mean when the guy came on the phone, I was just shocked. He spoke a few words and then there’d be this huge pause and then a few more words and a huge pause. So I was moving at about a fifth gear at the time so I slowed it down to first and just connected in the space, time, and place that he was in, and then just kept him going through the session and checking in. By the end of the session, he was talking like he was the old record player when you played it at 33 and it went to a very slurry kind of level. That’s how he was talking. But by the end of that session, he was talking like you and I, normally at a 45-degree speed. So then I had him get out.

Now this man was a lawyer, so you can imagine how much he would value his ability to communicate and his articulation. So he got out of the foot spa and I knew that he had had a shift because of the tone in the voice, the clarity, and the speed. I had never really experienced that so dramatically on an auditory level. We got him out of the system. Because of his mental orientation, I said, “So how are you feeling? Do you feel a little more alert and awake? And he said, “Yes.” I mean, it was like a disc jockey kind of tone and volume that came out of it and it was so awesome. And then what happened was he said, “And something else.” And I said, “What are you experiencing?” And he said, “Everything in the room is brighter.”

So I had him tune into his eyes. I said, “Okay, well let’s look through your eyes and tell me what you’re experiencing.” So he looked outside and he said, “Oh my God, everything has come back into focus again.” So I was just astounded. But you know what, when you think about it in Chinese medicine, of course, it’s the liver and the eyes. But the nervous system and the eyes, the nerves, and the eyes are the most vulnerable to high levels of acidity. Of course, he was loaded with heavy metals. I mean, he had a huge pH shift in his session and his skin exfoliated like crazy, so we knew that he had downloaded a lot of acids. But instantaneously, the body responded to that, and that’s what’s so great.

I mean, here’s a guy that’s in a chronic, debilitated for years kind of situation—able to do a reset. And of course, that’s the immediate thing, but then the clog up comes up. It’s like onion layers. So then you just have to continue to unlayer as the body starts to allow that toxicity to come out. But it’s just so astounding how significantly toxicity affects human physiology and especially the system.

 

[01:45:14] Ashley James: I love it. Well, these are the kind of experiences I’ve had with the PES. I have a family member who was, back in July, on many medications, using a walker, barely able to walk. Then started using it diligently three times a week, and about a month or a month and a half into using it diligently, he had a physical therapist coming to the house to offer in-home care. He took his blood pressure and said you have to go to your doctor right away. I’m very concerned. Your blood pressure is dangerously low.

They actually went that day to the doctor. I mean, I was so happy that they got such quick care given that with COVID, it’s been difficult at times. The doctor that day took him off of some medications and decreased the dosage of other medications. So he eliminated some medications. It’s been several months, he’s been using it diligently three times a week. He hasn’t changed his diet, he’s stubborn like that, and isn’t taking supplements. There’s only so much you can do, but what I did see is that he’s gone from barely able to walk with a walker to now he no longer uses the walker. There’ll be times when he crawls in and gets in the machine and then 30 minutes later he’s got a bounce in his step. He has color. Oh my gosh, he looked gray and white. He looked like a ghost. We really didn’t think he’d live very long, and now he has color again.

It’s really, really interesting to see the people use it for several months straight diligently how much they’re getting out of it. Now imagine if he then shifted his diet to be even healthier.

 

[01:47:30] Kellyann Andrews: The domino effect.

 

[01:47:32] Ashley James: Right. I’m hoping he also would benefit from shifting his thinking into healthier thoughts.

 

[01:47:44] Kellyann Andrews: But as they start to feel better that’s what’s really awesome. I had a woman who came to us in the beginning, and she had a fatty liver. Her liver enzymes were off the chart. Her blood sugar was so bad they wanted to put her on insulin. But you know what, it was their attitude. I was jokingly saying with my husband, “Boy, you can feel that person’s attitude 20 feet away.” So her attitude was just completely negative that it was like focused on everything in the world was wrong and what everybody else did was wrong.

But in the process of her using it for six months, she went back and got retested and no longer had a fatty liver, liver enzymes normalized, her blood sugars normalized. She lost 60 pounds of weight because she didn’t need the storage closets for the toxicity anymore, but it was the attitude change that was so awesome. She started going to a new sewing group, she became much more involved with their church, she became more social in the community, involved in causes, and now everything in the world was right.

 

[01:48:51] Ashley James: Beautiful. I love it. I’m a big, big fan of the PES. I’ve had great experiences. In our Facebook group, we have several listeners raving about the results they get with themselves and with their families. I highly recommend getting the system and using it for yourself. Listeners can contact you. So you don’t put much information on the website, you’re very hands-on. Listeners can go to platinumenergysystem.ca and talk to you, give you a call and actually talk to you. The feedback we get—the listeners have given—is that you are so giving of your time and so generous, and you really, really care and really help people. Everyone has had a very positive experience working with you.

If someone’s not sure they want to buy one because they want to try it out, you will help them find a practitioner in their area that has one so they can go and get a session. I know Dr. Klinghardt charges something like $80 a session, whereas if you own it yourself it would be like $12.50 a session. You’re obviously saving money in the long run if you have one yourself. But if you just want to try it out, I would definitely go find a practitioner if you can and get a few sessions and try it out for yourself.

 

[01:50:21] Kellyann Andrews: Right now that’s kind of interesting. Did you know that California just went into lockdown?

 

[01:50:27] Ashley James: Yeah.

 

[01:50:30] Kellyann Andrews: They even have a curfew now. So the ability to go to practitioners right now is limited, but also because of our presence—we’re in Canada. We don’t have a huge population of practitioners in the US.

 

[01:50:46] Ashley James: Well, I suppose it would just depend on what area they are in. It’s worth asking, right? It is worth asking. If you have the means, get one. You do give a really beautiful discount to listeners, and you’re so giving of your time. I’ve been very impressed with your system and your services. I know it’s helped me a great deal. My liver was inflamed and I’ve shared this before. I was struggling with the ability to detox heavy metals. Listen to my interview with Ben Lynch. He’s a naturopath actually local to me. We have not yet crossed paths in person, but I have interviewed him. His book is called Dirty Genes, it’s a great book. You can also listen to the episode to get really a really good glimpse into the book.

He talks about different things in our daily life that epigenetically shift our gene expressions to shut down our ability to detoxify. One of which, I mean these are simple changes you can make in your life. If you cook with a gas stove, there’s formaldehyde in gas. And if you don’t always have the hood on or the fan to suck it all outright, or if you have your gas oven on and you don’t have the vent on, we are inhaling. We’re increasing the pollution in our house, and considering many people around the world are now stuck at home almost all the time. They’re increasing their air pollution, which it’s known that the internal air pollution of our house can be 10 times more toxic than being downtown, outside.

 

[01:52:32] Kellyann Andrews: And you’re in it although these days.

 

[01:52:35] Ashley James: Little things. There are little changes you can make to help your body detoxify, and this is what I was looking for because my liver was really inflamed. I was waking up tasting heavy metals in my mouth. My body was creating a stench of burning rubber. It was very interesting. So I kept struggling and also my because my liver couldn’t handle it, every time I went to those weeks, every time I made a health change like eating even healthier my body would shed more weight, and then my liver would become even more inflamed because it couldn’t handle the toxins that were stored in the fat. Our body stores heavy metals in our fat tissue as a way to get it away from the organs if the liver can’t process it.

So here I had, for years, this difficulty with a hugely inflamed liver. I did not have fatty liver or cirrhosis liver, I’m thankful. My liver was distended, you could actually see it pushing outside under the rib cage. In the ultrasound, she said it was just a very upset angry liver, very inflamed. I was having problems. My liver could not detoxify perhaps because I have MTHFR gene expression that doesn’t allow me to methylate B vitamins. I was really focusing on getting all the nutrients that my body needed at the correct levels. Maybe there’s something inflamed in my diet, but really, it was my body having such a hard time with detoxifying.

My naturopath said, “Why don’t you try finding ways to bypass the liver sweating in a sauna and a foot a foot spa.” There are so many knockoffs out there. There are so many bad saunas out there. There are so many knock-offs of this technology that you sell, and I knew that.

 

[01:54:39] Kellyann Andrews: I call them the wannabes.

 

[01:54:41] Ashley James: Right. You could go on eBay and buy something for $200 that claims it’s what you do but it’s not. It’s a knockoff from China.

 

[01:54:49] Kellyann Andrews: I wouldn’t be putting my feet in that water knowing what I know.

 

[01:54:53] Ashley James: No, absolutely not. It’s quite scary, and I like how you’ve actually tested the water. Putting the array in the water and testing the water with the machine running with no feet in it. You share that information. You’re not actually creating more toxins by putting your feet in this water, and then you have results where you’ve shown what comes out of people and you have that water sent to a lab and tested.

So I spent a long time looking for the real McCoy, the right sauna that actually gets results at eliminating heavy metals, and also with your technology as well. I speak more about how I found you back in podcast episode 292, which is a great one to go back and check out to learn more about the technology of how this works. 

But using your system and using the sauna, I have had such amazing results, and of course, adjusting diet to have more greens and more herbs that help the body get out heavy metals. My liver went back to normal. I no longer taste heavy metals. I no longer have a problem with detoxifying. My liver is happy. Actually, all my lab work—and I’m so proud of it. The last time I got all my lab work, which was about, let’s see. I’m 20 weeks pregnant and I got it when I was about 9 weeks pregnant. Okay, about 11 weeks ago I got all my lab work and it was the best lab work I’ve ever had. Every year, it just keeps getting better and better and better. My liver, enzymes, all of them are finally in normal ranges. I attribute that hugely to working with your system. I adore it.

Any time a friend comes over I give them a treatment and they love it. I’ve had some amazing experiences. I share that in one of the previous episodes where I had a friend who got in it, she was feeling very sick, she had a cold. Afterward, she was up and running and jumping around but also the water smelled heavily of something like Febreze and chlorine. She looked at me and it was shocking how much that water smelled heavily of these substances. She said “15 years ago, I was a maid and I never wore gloves. These are the chemicals that I used,” and they were stuck in her body and they got pulled out.

I was in a pool in February before the shutdown happened. I was swimming in a chlorinated pool, and then it was a few months later. I don’t remember if I took a break from doing the PES, but I remember two months later I jumped in the PES and the water smelled hugely of chlorine, like pool water chlorine. I thought that’s really interesting, and every time I do go in a chlorinated pool, which isn’t often, my PES water—even if it’s weeks or a month later—the stuff that comes out of me actually pulls the chlorine. Because I live on a well so I never have exposure to chlorine, and it pulls the chemicals from the pool out of my body. You can smell it in the water. I also feel like a million bucks. I feel lighter. I have energy, I have mental clarity, I feel amazing.

 

[01:58:20] Kellyann Andrews: Your body’s brilliant at detoxing. It knows how. You just had to get the exit roots open. I mean, we see that when we eat things like asparagus. The next time you go to pee you smell asparagus.

 

[01:58:38] Ashley James: Because the body is eliminating the sulfur.

 

[01:58:42] Kellyann Andrews: Right but also asparagus is great for the kidneys because it helps to detoxify the kidneys.

 

[01:58:50] Ashley James: Sulfur-containing foods—I mean, for some people it’s not healthy, but for most, it’s quite required by the nervous system. But also, it’s required in repairing cartilage. Cartilage requires sulfur. I thought that was really interesting.

 

[01:59:11] Kellyann Andrews: Well, you think of the sulfur drugs in terms of antibiotic, but that’s where garlic was a classic antifungal, antiviral, anti-everything. Get all the bad guys out.

 

[01:59:22] Ashley James: Eat your garlic.

 

[01:59:25] Kellyann Andrews: Just the bad guys out, but I always used to joke. It keeps the bad guys away, but it keeps the people who have the bad guys away too.

 

[01:59:35] Ashley James: Yeah, because you’re smelling wonderfully of garlic. That’s true.

 

[01:59:39] Kellyann Andrews: Yeah, exactly. But you look at those cultures that have longevity built into them. They’re eating those kinds of foods. When you have a clean aquarium and you feed the fish the right food, is it really surprising that they’re thriving?

 

[02:00:00] Ashley James: I love that you do continue to bring up the analogy of having a clean aquarium because a clean aquarium invites the good bacteria in. For anyone who’s successfully had fish, I used to breed African Malawi cichlids that require making sure you have a very healthy tank. I used to actually have over 10 running fish tanks in my house. It was how I got out of my depression after my mom died. My boyfriend at the time just noticed that the only thing that brought a smile to my face was watching live fish, and so he encouraged me. I learned all about how to foster healthy fish tanks.

The first month or so with a fish tank is really messy because you don’t have an established microbiome. It’s kind of like taking antibiotics and all of a sudden all your good bacteria are dead. Now, whatever you eat, you’re either going to create crazy bad cultures in your gut or you’re going to create good cultures—same with the fish tank. So there are many similarities between managing a fish tank towards better balance and better health because that always invites the good bacteria, which sustains the entire environment. Thus also relating back to our own body, that the cleaner our body is the better the environment is for everything else to live in harmony.

 

[02:01:32] Kellyann Andrews: Yeah. The mucky aquarium is the analogy that—of course, as you pointed out—the human body, and the fish are the cells. But in the murky aquarium—the one that’s green, slimy, and yucky—is an environment that’s high acidity, low oxygen; but the clean aquarium is high oxygen, low acidity, slight alkalinity, and high minerals. That’s why the fish thrive.

 

[02:02:03] Ashley James: It has been such a pleasure having you here today. You’ve shared so much. Is there anything you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview?

 

[02:02:11] Kellyann Andrews: Yeah, a couple of things. How to stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system. Again, just retrain the brain. So the number one thing in that moment of stress—whatever it is that’s triggering you to have a derailment—catch yourself on a breathing level and do that diaphragm breathing. So on inhale, the diaphragm goes down; on exhale the diaphragm comes up. And then if you can train yourself to be a nose breather it’s just better because you could create a higher level of nitric oxide, which helps to vasodilate your whole circulatory system.

The other thing is because of this time and the weirdness—I mean, we’ve never ever experienced anything like this on the planet where it is such a pivotal point in history that I so want to help you all in terms of being able to find balance. So here’s on the emotional level—Bach Flowers. Bach himself was a bacteriologist in England, and he was a Harley Street doctor, so really highly regarded. But anyway, he would get into emotional states, he’d go out in nature, and he’d be drawn to what made him feel good again. What was the balancing factor in nature? So he created (I think) 32 or so remedies.

But in terms of Bach Flower, when COVID first happened, my first response to COVID was to go to the health food store and get two bottles of Mimulus. How I remember that is when you’re on the computer and you hit the minus screen, so this is to minus fear. Mimulus is to minus fear. Willow the trouble with what we’re experiencing is it’s so, so easy to go into victim mode around all of these regulations and restrictions. So to stay out of victim mode because you want to stay in the driver’s seat, not be in the backseat of the trunk, you want that feeling that you’re the one who’s making the choices. So willow is great for that. Cerato is the one that increases your intuition, and that will cause you to stay in the forebrain.

And then because of all of these things that are occurring and all of the changes, walnut is really great for any kind of change and especially when there’s a resistance to change.

 

[02:05:05] Ashley James: Is that just eating walnuts, or is this something else?

 

[02:05:08] Kellyann Andrews: No, this is the Bach Flower walnut.

 

[02:05:10] Ashley James: Back Flower walnut, got it.

 

[02:05:14] Kellyann Andrews: These are all the remedies from Bach. So Bach Flower Remedies. The other thing that’s really important is to feed your nervous system. So in the cell salt line, Hyland’s is the brand that’s in the US, #6—there’s 12 in the line—is kali phos. Now, what’s really interesting about that, Ashley, is that it’s potassium. Kali is potassium. So a lot of us get a lot of sodium but we don’t get the balance of the potassium. So this is potassium phosphate and it physically feeds the nervous system and calms it down. 

When I went on the doctor’s call with that company, they’re doing a webinar, and they had a person on there who’s whose client was a naturopath. He was telling the story and he said mainly the naturopath had women as his patients. But he gave all of his patients that one cell salt, #6 kali phos, and 80% of their symptoms disappeared on that one cell salt. That’s because we’re nervous system beings, and this literally feeds the nerves.

Now on the other level, B1 thiamine, anybody who has MS is completely deficient in thiamine because thiamine is involved in creating the myelin sheath. I mean, everybody does research on thiamine. You would be amazed at how significant thiamine is. But it’s number one for feeding the mitochondria. 

Well, when you think of the mitochondria or your power cells in every cell of the body, they’re what create the ATP or energy—the glucose kind of thing—for the body to power up to do its signaling, to do its communications, to do its function, to do its enzymes, to do absolutely everything. With Ashley, the focus is always to feed the body. 

So I always jokingly say when you go up in the mountains it says don’t feed the bears. So I say don’t feed the bugs. So instead, when you’re stressed, do not underline four times reach for what is classically called comfort foods because the last thing they will do is create comfort in your body. But instead, have a cupboard—and this is what I do. I have a cupboard that I open and then I create green drinks. So I’ve got about four different green powders and I’ve got turmeric in there, barley grass, then I took a bunch of chlorella, then protein sources, and all these things.

So anyway, in the moment of stress, take what would be normally an addiction to junk food and change that—train the brain to change the crave to power nutrients and feed that to your cells and watch what happens. And then the other thing was just a reminder about tapping your brain in the front. Either tap or press on it, focus on the eyes and look at colors and textures. That will bring you to your forebrain.

Now the things that will help to stimulate the vagus nerve, the interesting thing, Ashley, is the combination of essential oils clove and lime. What you do is you put it on the mastoid bone—the back of the ear has that rounded part. You put it right on there with some oil. Never put your essential oils on straight. You always want to put a carrier oil in there. So put that right on the mastoid bone and it stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system. 

But here are the other things that also do—the deep breathing, which we mentioned diaphragmatic breathing; yoga; and interestingly enough, gagging. So that’s quite interesting. Gagging actually stimulates it, but when you think of where it is right up in that jawline a little bit north, I mean, it’s right in that whole area. So gargling, your whole oil pulling process will stimulate it. 

Freezing cold water will do it too. I mean, what have we all been told is to have a shower and end it with cold water, but I can tell you that probably 90% of this population is not doing that. I’ve just started to stimulate it myself at the end of a bath. I will pour cold water over my head and then part of it will go down my body. It is a shock to the system, but again you’re stimulating that zone of the body. And then things like singing, humming, chanting, laughter, and smiling.

The key to all that we’ve said today is really your body is so absolutely brilliant at healing, but it needs your help to do so by the choices you make daily. And as a matter of fact at the moment. So the first step in any healing journey is to create a clean healing environment. Amen.

 

[02:11:22] Ashley James: Amen.

 

[02:11:24] Kellyann Andrews: It’s awesome to be with you. I always love being with you. We could talk for days. But gratitude is so important. Just tell the people you love that you love them. Leave them cards. Let the world around know that you love them, acknowledge their good behavior. Just minimize their bad behavior, but acknowledge their good behavior. There’s a movie years ago and I wished I had remembered. I saw it when I was a teenager. It was about this woman who got married and her mother, as a wedding gift, gave her this book and it was a dog training book to train the husband including rubbing behind his ears, how fun is that.

I often think about that movie and it’s a question of training ourselves to the good behaviors, but to acknowledge the people around you. What the world needs now is love, sweet love. The more that you can focus on being a sunshine presence of love, not only does that hugely bless your own physiology, your emotional being, your mental being, but you radiate that out into the environment. 

When you see all these people out in the stores, and of course, now the stores that are a whole other topic on toxicity what’s on the floors and making you do hand sanitizers. The thing is that when those people sergeant major you—use the hand sanitizer, I just smile at them and I say I’m sorry I can’t do that because I’m very chemically sensitive. But I just smile at them. I mean, it’d be really easy just to give them back their own energy level. But you got to switch it. You just got to change it around so that you’re giving out beautiful energy. Because if there’s ever a time on the planet that everybody needs love, and Jerry Jampolsky said that in his book, Love is Letting Go of Fear. If people aren’t coming from love, it’s because they’re needing love.

 

[02:13:48] Ashley James: And their vagus nerve is toxic.

 

[02:13:52] Kellyann Andrews: Yeah, their vagus nerve is toxic and it’s in dormant mode.

 

[02:13:58] Ashley James: They’re stuck in stress gear.

 

[02:14:01] Kellyann Andrews: Exactly. So when you smile at people, all those people that are so frightened because you’re within 12 feet of them, you just smile at them and send them this loving energy and watch what happens to their face. They just completely light up too because they don’t want to be in a state of fear. None of us do.

 

[02:14:24] Ashley James: And even if you’re wearing a mask I’ve noticed—and I thought this was really interesting that you can tell someone’s smiling by looking at their eyes. You can even see the shift in their face.

 

[02:14:35] Kellyann Andrews: Yes, it’s their energy level.

 

[02:14:38] Ashley James: Just because they can’t see you smile, you could actually hear someone smile. That’s what I learned. A long, long time ago, I was a sales manager for an international training company that did personal growth and development work, and I learned that people can hear you smile. Actually, listeners have given me feedback. They’re like I know you’re smiling. Just because someone can’t see you smile, maybe someone’s blind, they can feel it. They can feel the intention, the energy, they can hear it.

 

[02:15:11] Kellyann Andrews: It’s a frequency thing.

 

[02:15:12] Ashley James: Right. If they’re not looking at your mouth, they can see it in your physiology. When we’re actually authentically smiling, our whole physiology has micro muscle movements that change. There’s a really great woman on YouTube. I’m forgetting her name right now. It’s really great. She takes all these different political speeches and she gives you the insights as to their physiology—whether they’re lying, whether they’re apprehensive, whether there’s something else going on.

 

[02:15:46] Kellyann Andrews: Lie detector.

 

[02:15:47] Ashley James: Yeah, she’s a lie detector, but she’s actually a body language reader. There was one person that was doing a fake smile and she paused and she says, “See, they’re moving their mouth but nothing else is moving. They’re not actually smiling. You will know someone’s smiling when their eyes move, when their ears move, when they’re actually engaging all these muscles in their head.”

 

[02:16:13] Kellyann Andrews: Unless they’ve had Botox.

 

[02:16:17] Ashley James: Yes, that’s another thing But when someone’s authentically smiling, they’re smiling with their energy, they’re smiling with their voice, they’re smiling with everything.

 

[02:16:27] Kellyann Andrews: They’re smiling with their soul.

 

[02:16:29] Ashley James: Right. So use the energy of a smile as your shield, as you’re exuding love and acceptance. I think a lot of people need that right now.

 

[02:16:43] Kellyann Andrews: Yeah. We all stood in line to be here at this time, which is very, very interesting in terms of the pivotalness of this historical moment. I mean, the whole thing is that you came here to be an evolving—well, the only way that I can say it is an evolving sun presence because the more you can be sunny on the inside, you radiate that out. I mean, the challenges of moment-to-moment life are going to absolutely challenge that. I had a couple of derailments happen yesterday and I just caught myself laughing and just saying, okay, is this a moment of resistance or resilience? So we have to train the brain to resilience.

 

[02:17:40] Ashley James: Because when there’s resistance, things break. When you see something that’s resisting in nature, it breaks. Right now, we have lots of wind storms in my area. The branches that are not flexible break.

 

[02:17:57] Kellyann Andrews: The difference between an oak and a willow.

 

[02:17:59] Ashley James: Right. We need to have more resilience to bounce back, to be flexible, to flex. I interviewed a woman recently on reversing osteopenia and osteoporosis and preventing bone degeneration. She said it’s not about how much bone density we have. This is the misnomer. You can have bone density, but your bones can be fragile because they don’t have flexibility. She says the Japanese have one of the lowest rates in the world of hip fractures, and these people live a long time and they’re quite active. It’s because their diet has given them flexible bones.

 

[02:18:45] Kellyann Andrews: And they’re physically active.

 

[02:18:47] Ashley James: They are. Their bones are strong but they’re not so minerally dense that they’re fragile, that they have resistance, that they break under pressure. They flex under pressure.

 

[02:19:01] Kellyann Andrews: That’s why rebounds are so great because you’re actually creating three different forces on your bones all at the same time, but it creates that flexibility. The flexibility of the muscles in the bones is the same with the emotions and thoughts. So in the moment of stress, you’ll notice that you want to have a total no response, that you’re totally going resistant. But at that moment, if you can absolutely accept whatever is happening, then you can shift gears and move through it. But if you get stuck in resistance, you’re not going anywhere. It’s just going to antagonize your thoughts, your emotions, and your physiology.

 

[02:19:48] Ashley James: A lesson I learned from Tony Robbins—and I really, really love it. He says when something is happening that you’re resisting, that you disagree with, that you don’t like. Something is happening in your life and you don’t have control because it’s something that’s happening regardless. You ask yourself what’s good about this, not in a joking manner, in a really serious what is good about this? He gave the example of a client who is a lawyer and his partner was retiring, selling, or something was happening. I think he was also going through a divorce, but there’s so much wrong in his life. He’s losing his company, he was trying to make a partnership, he was losing his marriage, and he couldn’t see any positive way out of it. Tony kept saying the same thing over and over again, “What is good about this? What’s good about this situation? Honestly, genuinely, what is good about this?”

 

[02:20:53] Kellyann Andrews: What’s the silver lining?

 

[02:20:55] Ashley James: Right, but what good could come of this? What good could you make come of this? What is good here? And at first, he couldn’t think of anything, which is often the response. Then he started to see things. He goes, “Well, my son is graduating and I’ve always wanted to work with him.” I think he was also graduating as a lawyer, and there was no room in that other company for him and his son to work together. He, by the end of the session, had realized that now he has the opportunity to start a new company with his son. And then he’s like, “Well, now I’m not attached to this building I’ve been driving to, and I hate the location.” It was somewhere in LA. “I’ve always wanted to live on the beach and work on the beach.” Now that all these things have changed in his life, now he gets to actually do what he’s wanted to do but couldn’t because of other restrictions.

So by the end of the session, he had decided he was going to move to Venice beach, work and live there so there’s almost no commute, and spend a lot of his time with his son and build this new business. All of this was just so exciting to him, but at the beginning of the session, he couldn’t even see past all the bad. Yes, there are bad things. Bad things will always happen. And if we resist and push and resist and push, we’re constantly triggering the stress response. And if we look for what’s good about this, in this bad situation, what good can I make of this genuinely? We may find all these wonderful opportunities for healing, for growth that we never saw before because we could not let ourselves see that because we were too focused on pushing back and resisting what we didn’t want to change.

 

[02:22:45] Kellyann Andrews: It’s a classic of the hindbrain, forebrain response. So when you come to the forebrain, then you can see the options. But if you’re stuck in the back brain and animalistic fight or flight, you just feel trapped.

 

[02:23:00] Ashley James: Yeah. So do that deep breathing, do everything that Kellyann said to do today. Go to her website, platinumenergysystems.ca, give her a call. Check out the Platinum Energy System, I love it. Get those Bach Flower remedies and the essential oils that she talked about. Deep breathing is so important. Then catch yourself and turn your thinking into healing thoughts that don’t trigger the panic response in the body.

 

[02:23:28] Kellyann Andrews: Exactly. Love your body to health.

 

[02:23:32] Ashley James: I love it. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s been such a pleasure to have you back on.

 

[02:23:37] Kellyann Andrews: Well, wonderful to be here and to visit with you. All right, God bless everybody because this is quite a time that we’re in. But the awesome thing is that you have full capability of turning this around in all of your lives, in all the ways to being—as Ashley just said—where’s the good in this?

 

Get Connected With Kellyann Andrews!

Official Website

Recommended Readings by Kellyann Andrews

Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton

Quantum-Touch by Richard Gordon

The New Human by Richard Gordon

Power of Now+Stillness Speaks by Eckhart Tolle

A Return To Love by Marianne Williamson

Check out other interviews of Kellyann Andrews!

Episode 330 – Holistic Habits And Success Stories (Part 2)

Episode 329 – Stories of Success Through Detox

Episode 293 – Balancing pH

Episode 292 – Creating Wellness

Jan 6, 2021

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https://lbry.tv/@Learn-True-Health:f

Andy's website:

https://www.thegreendesigncenter.com/consultation-services

 

Achieving a Non-Toxic Home and Work Environment 

https://www.learntruehealth.com/achieving-a-non-toxic-home-and-work-environment

 

Highlights:

  • Why measuring indoor air quality a false premise for certifying something as a green building
  • What is a VOC
  • What is greenwashing
  • Things that off-gas in the home
  • Actionable steps that you can take to have a cleaner/healthier home

 

Most of us think that since we’re mostly at home nowadays, we’re already safe from harmful chemicals, but that could be far from true. Just because we don’t see or smell the chemicals doesn’t mean that it’s not harming us. In this episode, Andy Pace shares the things that we have in our homes that are toxic and off-gas. He also gives us some actionable steps that we can do to have a healthier home.

Intro:

Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. Welcome to 2021. I hope you guys had an amazing December and got some time to rest and relax as I did. 

I’m now officially in my third trimester of being pregnant with our second child. If this is news to you, I’ve mentioned it a little bit on the show. I used to be completely infertile. I was diagnosed infertile, actually, by an endocrinologist who told me I’d never conceived children naturally. I had severe polycystic ovarian syndrome. I had a bunch of other health conditions as well including type 2 diabetes, chronic infections, and chronic adrenal fatigue, and I used natural medicine and holistic medicine in the last 12 years to regain all of my health.

I no longer have any of those issues, and we conceived our first son totally naturally and on time and intended. We decided to go for it. The timing just felt really right for us, and we conceived again on our first try. We’re having a girl this time, we’re so excited. I’m now 27 weeks, going into 28 weeks pregnant. What’s amazing is this pregnancy has been so much easier compared to the last one, and that’s something that I want to explore in further episodes because I spent six years focusing on going from really poor health to getting myself to the point where I was fertile again and healthy. That was for our first son, and that pregnancy was still very, very difficult for me.

A lot of issues came up, and I addressed them with my Naturopathic physician and my midwives. We were able to have a healthy birth, but it was still very, very stressful, and difficult on my body. And so after we had our son, I spent the last five years—and of course doing the podcast as well—learning so much from all these amazing guests we’ve had on. I spent the last five years really focusing on getting to even the next level of health. 

So if you’ve been a long time listener or you’re a new listener, go back and listen to those episodes because, in the last 453 interviews, I’ve really taken to heart so much of this information that we’ve absorbed from all these great guests, all the courses I’ve taken online, and of course, my continuing mentorship with several really old-school holistic doctors and Naturopathic doctors that I’ve been mentored by over 10 years now.

What happened in the last five years is I focused on really getting specific with what diet is the most healing and restorative for my body? What can I do to detox heavy metals, remove parasites, support my liver and other organs? I shed a lot of even further inflammation and weight, and I saw my blood levels be the healthiest they’ve ever been.

What’s really, really cool is I just had that freedom. The freedom I’m experiencing in my body is something I haven’t had since I was a child, and that is so exciting. I keep telling my husband when the baby kicks, I actually forget I’m pregnant, even though I’ve got this really big round belly in front of me. There’s definitely an obvious baby belly, but I forget through the day that I’m pregnant. So when she kicks, I’m like oh yeah, oh my gosh, I’m pregnant. And that’s so funny because, with the first pregnancy, I was so sick the entire time. I never forgot I was pregnant. And now I walk around, I just feel normal until the baby kicks.

That to me is a great example of what you can achieve with holistic medicine, what you can achieve with health. That there are these levels of health. And when you think you’re like I’ve spent the last six years, two years, one year, six months, or how long you’ve spent investing in your health. You might plateau and you’re like okay, this is good. I’m good. And then you learn something else and you decide to take it to the next level. Maybe do a cleanse, a detox, a fast. Maybe change up your exercise routine or your sleep habits. Whatever you do to take it to the next level, just look back after a few years of doing that and go wow, everything that I’m going through now is so much easier than it used to be. And that is such a cool, cool feeling.

I never would have thought that I would have achieved this much in my health 10 years ago, let alone 5 years ago. I’m so excited to be on this journey with you. Wherever you are in your health journey, whether you’re a total health nut like me, and you’re in really, really great shape, or like most listeners, they have some health complaints, they have some things. We have some listeners that are newer to the holistic space, and they’re really sick of suffering. They’re just really sick of medications that are not really helping them to get there, to get to their health goals, and they’re just ready. They’re ready to make some amazing changes.

In this podcast, my goal is to get you that information, to help you to achieve not only your health because physical health is just one aspect of your life. But when you have physical health, how much more ease you have to love yourself, to love your family, to be connected to your friends, to be connected to your creator, to be connected in nature, and have that energy moving through you and just experience the world. Your body is your vessel, and your experience of the world is greatly affected by the health of your vessel.

By giving your body everything it needs, all the nutrition it needs to achieve optimal health, you’re giving your entire life and all those you love a better experience, an increase in joy, vitality, and a sense of purpose. So continue on this path no matter where you are. Let’s make 2021 be just such an amazing transformative year. You get to say if this is your year of transformation, and I’m going to bring you episodes that are going to help you to continue to transform your life, to make it into the one that you want. The one that you see in your future as the one you want.

My goal was to have an easier and healthier pregnancy this time around, and I didn’t even know that it could be this good. I’m letting you know it’s so exciting the things that you can achieve.

Now today’s guest, I am absolutely ecstatic for you to learn from because this is an area we have touched on a little bit on the show. I mean, over 450 episodes, there’s a lot to cover. But the idea that everything in our surroundings—our carpeting, our mattress, the paint on the walls, all of this goes into our health. And our guest today is an incredibly experienced man when it comes to non-toxic environments. He has been in the building industry and focusing on materials used in homes, even in cars, and offices that are non-toxic for the human body long before we ever heard the word green, green technology, or green building. All that kind of came out in the ‘90s. He’s been doing this long before that, and he tells this story and it’s just absolutely fascinating. He has a lot of great actionable information.

And so if you’re thinking this year you’re going to renovate your bathroom, repaint some part of your house, or get new flooring, what’s really cool is you can contact him. We talk a little bit about this in the interview. You can contact him, and he’ll do really quick 15-minute consultations, and he’ll point you in the right direction so that it can fit in your budget and be non-toxic. He has so many great resources. It doesn’t have to be expensive to create a healthier environment for yourself. So just strap in, enjoy this episode. There’s so much to learn.

Now I want to let you know about a webinar that I was part of creating with Jason Payne, who is the founder of my favorite mattress of all times. I really took mattresses for granted. I was just sleeping on whatever, and then we went and bought what I thought was a really expensive mattress at a box chain store a few years ago, and it was the highest end one that was within our budget. I thought man, this is going to last us 10 years. It didn’t even last us three years until it was so warped that my husband and I were in so much pain and just so stiff every morning. I was really upset about that, and I looked and I looked and I looked. 

I talked to a lot of other holistic people in this space, and the more I dug, the more I realized that most mattresses out there, first of all, are designed to only last a few years, are off-gassing really bad stuff for our health. They’re designed in a way that doesn’t allow us to have deep restorative sleep. So I finally found a mattress that I absolutely love. I did a ton of digging, and I cannot tell you what a life-changing experience this has been. I had the creator of this mattress on the show a while back, and then we decided to make this webinar so you can see and learn more. 

What I want you to do is go to learnturehealth.com/bed. That’s learntruehealth.com/bed. Sign up for the free webinar. It’s going to teach you a bit about mattresses in general, non-toxic mattresses, what’s the difference between that and regular stuff out there, probably between that and what you’re sleeping on now. And in this specific mattress, how the technology works to make it so that you don’t have pressure points so that you stay in deep restorative sleep longer. You come out no longer in pain, no longer stiff. Some people have actually gotten off of pain meds because of this bed. It’s pretty amazing.

Check it out, learnturehealth.com/bed. Why this webinar is relevant to the topic of today’s episode is because this is just another thing in your house that you want to replace. When you’re ready to replace your bed, you want to replace it with this one because it is non-toxic, and it also will last over 25 years. That will save you a ton of money. If you think about it, if you have to buy a mattress every five years because they get warped or have to go to the chiropractor, you’re in pain, and so you’re compensating for that pain because you have a wonky mattress that’s off-gassing some chemicals. That doesn’t save us money and save us our health. This is why I love this mattress, and I can’t say enough good things about it. Go to learntruehealth.com/bed and check out that webinar.

Come join us in the Facebook group if you’re on Facebook. Just search Learn True Health on Facebook, we’d love to see you there. It’s such a supportive and wonderful community, and you can always reach out to me there in the community if you have questions. And of course, you can always email me, ashley@learntruehealth.com. Thank you so much for being a listener, and thank you so much for sharing these episodes with those you care about. If you have any friends or family that are looking to renovate this year or looking to change anything in their home or office, you definitely want to share this episode with them. It’s going to make a big difference. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day, and remember, go to learntruehealth.com/bed and check out that webinar.

 

[00:12:12] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 453. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have with us Andy Pace, the founder of thegreendesigncenter.com.

Now, how I found Andy, it’s been quite interesting. If you’ve been a long-time listener, you’ve heard me interview the Sternagels. I had Teddy Sternagel and her husband, Ryan Sternagel, on the show. They have a child who had cancer and had been through treatments twice. His cancer came back. Thank God, praise God, I am so thrilled to share that their child is cancer-free. They did a lot of holistic medicine.

Through that, they really became aware of how toxins in our home, how things that we take for granted, that things that are completely “safe”, that are sold in stores are actually contributing to the amount of toxic load in our body, and thus contributing to cancer and other diseases. They became so acutely aware of this that they moved from Washington state. They bought a beautiful plot of land in Utah, and they built their home. Every single square inch of this house is non-toxic or the most absolute healthiest choice possible of material.

I asked Ryan, how did you do this? You became an expert on everything non-toxic. He goes, “No, you have to talk to Andy. Andy’s the guy.” So I said, “Andy, please come on the show and share with us…” Obviously, for those who want to build our dream non-toxic home, we’d want to talk to Andy. But for those who live in a house or even a rented house or rented apartment, there are so many choices we can make to make better choices for our home environment to decrease the amount of toxic load in our bodies and also for our pets.

I’m sure we can discuss this, but some people will spend thousands of dollars on their pets and not take care of themselves. So I got to tell you that the cancer rates for our pets have gone up, and pets live in our homes 24/7. They don’t get to leave much unless we take them out. They’re seeing now that it’s the toxicity of the off-gassing and everything inside the house that contributes to increases in pet cancer. And of course, if we’re seeing that in animals, we’re seeing that in humans.

So, Andy, I’m so excited to have you on the show today. You’re going to really open our eyes and share with us all the things that we can do to clean up our environment so that we’re living a non-toxic or the least toxic possible lifestyle. Welcome to the show.

 

[00:15:13] Andy Pace: Thank you so much, Ashley. It really is my pleasure to be with you and your audience today. It’s always exciting for me to talk to a new group of listeners out there in the world, and to hopefully open up some eyes to what’s really happening and how to make our living environments much, much healthier.

 

[00:15:37] Ashley James: Absolutely. We’re going to get into it. You have so much to share with us today. Now you do podcasts. Do you have your own podcast?

 

[00:15:46] Andy Pace: I do. It’s called Non-Toxic Environments.

 

[00:15:49] Ashley James: Awesome. And I’m sure my listeners will want to check that out. Of course, the links to everything that Andy Pace does is going to be the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. I’m really curious to find out though, what happened in your life that made you want to become an expert in non-toxic environments and non-toxic homes? Did you just wake up as a seven-year-old and you said I really want to become an expert in flooring, paints, and home design for green living? What happened in your life?

 

[00:16:16] Andy Pace: Well, quite a coincidence there, I actually kind of did as a child want to get into the business of selling building materials, and here’s why. My family has owned a commercial construction material supply company that dates back to the 1930s, and we’ve been here in Wisconsin ever since. When I was in high school, actually before that, as a small child I remember sitting around the dinner table. Unlike most homes, when you’re having dinner conversation, we weren’t talking about sports or school. I was listening to my mom and dad talk about these architects, these contractors, and projects. At a very young age, I just got really interested in the entire building process.

During high school and during college, I actually was helping the family company program computers. This is the late ‘70s, early ‘80s when computers really first started coming around, and I was setting up a computer system for our family business and again got to learn more. But when I got to college, for me, it was just a no-brainer that I was going to enter the family business of selling commercial construction materials. 

For the first two years of my career, I was involved in working with some of the largest commercial architectural firms in the country and assisting them in specifying and detailing the proper products for certain types of applications. My specialty at that time was industrial coatings. We carried a couple of lines of these industrial coating materials—very specialty. They were used in very intricate applications of airplane hangars or humane society projects.

This particular one that really got me going on the health kick was a project that was a below-grade parking structure. So essentially, it was three underground floors of parking underneath a 20-story condominium complex. The architectural firm and engineering firms that were hired to do this project brought me in to make sure we supplied the right materials to cover the concrete to withstand all the oils and greases of cars. 

Well, after our crew installed the primer coat onto the concrete—essentially, they prepared the concrete, cleaned it all up, put the primer on, and you have to remember that all of the products that we’re supplying were water-based because we knew this is an underground parking garage. There are people living and working in the condominiums and offices above. We can’t use anything that has a lot of solvent to it. We made sure to use water-based products.

Well, after the primer coat was applied, we started getting phone calls from people living and working in the condominiums above the parking garage. We couldn’t really understand why because we were using a water-based product. We made sure to put up plastic barriers so that the fumes wouldn’t carry throughout the building—obviously, that didn’t work. After we received a phone call from a United States senator’s office who happened to be in this building—I remember this vividly—about 20 minutes after that phone call and we were all standing around talking about how we’re going to proceed with this project, three of our workers collapsed.

 

[00:20:34] Ashley James: You’re all standing around?

 

[00:20:35] Andy Pace: Yes. Three of our workers collapsed. They couldn’t breathe. There were inhalation complications due to the coating that we were using, and we could not understand why. It’s a water-based product. Well, I learned the hard way—at the age of 22 years old—that a water-based coating doesn’t mean solvent-free, it doesn’t mean toxin-free. It means that 50% of the liquid component in the product is water. The other 50% can be whatever the manufacturer chooses to make their product apply better, cure faster, so on and so forth.

When this product was curing, it was an epoxy material. It actually sucked the oxygen out of the room. So we had three workers rushed to the hospital due to these inhalation complications, and they ended up being fine. But the important thing was it taught us a very vivid lesson. Just because something is water-based doesn’t mean it’s safe, and just because a manufacturer or somebody says oh don’t worry it’s fine, to not take that seriously.

 

[00:22:02] Ashley James: Just because it’s sold in stores. That’s something we really, really need to wrap our brains around. I’m from Canada, I live in the states. I love living here. This is my home, and Canada is also my home. But in both countries, I think we walk around feeling a little bit bulletproof. We’re privileged in that we don’t live in squalor and poverty. Obviously, I wish everyone in the world was taken care of, and that’s the utopia I wish we could create for us. But the truth is that we are so privileged. Just to be in Canada, in the United States—some of the richest economies in the world—we are definitely more privileged than other countries. So I think we walk around feeling a bit bulletproof.

People assume we don’t have any parasites. People assume that’s something that happens with one of those countries but not this country. And then when we look that the European Union has banned thousands upon thousands of chemicals that are in food, that are in building supplies, that are different medications, and they’re not banned here. You got to scratch your head. Why are there chemicals banned in other countries but are readily being used and are on the shelves here?

We have to really get that it is buyer beware when it comes to food, when it comes to anything you use in your home, when it comes to cosmetics. There are over 80,000 man-made chemicals that have been invented in the last 10 or 20 years. Our bodies don’t know what to do with these chemicals. The liver doesn’t know how to process it. And we’re seeing all kinds of health problems continue to rise. So that was your first big wake up, and that’s interesting because your family had been in the business for so many generations. But these chemicals weren’t around in the 1930s like they are now. There were different chemicals, but now there are some really scary chemicals available, especially when it comes to building homes.

What did you do in your business? You’re 22 years old, you’re getting a wake-up call around these solvents. How did you change your business? Did you go back to school? What happened next?

 

[00:24:38] Andy Pace: What I did was I just started researching, and this is before the internet. I couldn’t just jump on Google and start looking at article after article of these stories about chemicals and so forth. I actually had to do it the old-fashioned way and go to the library. I had to talk to people in the medical field. It’s interesting. What really did it for me was on this project, we still had a contract with the owners of this building to supply a coating and so we had to finish the job. But we realized we couldn’t finish it with the products that we started with.

I did a lot of research, talked to a lot of people, a lot of friends in the industry, and finally, the manufacturer that made the coating for us said, I think I know somebody who might be able to help you with this job. He put me in touch with a very, very small company out of—at the time—Riverside, California. A company called American Formulating and Manufacturing. I never heard of them. This company started in 1980-81, and they manufactured paints and coatings. 

So I started a conversation with them, and it turns out that AFM was a company that was founded by a man who himself developed cancer being in the paints and coatings industry as a formulator in a lab tech. He made it his life-ending mission—literally, his life-ending mission because he died of cancer—to formulate recipes for paints, coatings, and specialty products that are completely free of the health hazards and toxins that got us into the problem in the first place.

I was introduced to the company, and I spent probably a good two years just trying to figure out what am I going to do with this information? Again, I came from the commercial construction industry. I’m used to working with architects, engineers, and contractors. But when I first started researching the materials from AFM, I thought to myself, I’ve got to go to somebody who I know in the field that can maybe give me some feedback. It just so happens that a good friend of mine was the head of buildings and maintenance for the largest medical complex in Wisconsin.

I reached out to my friend Jim and I said, “Jim, I’ve got this new paint product. The manufacturer claims that it is good for people who are subject to sick building syndrome, environmental illnesses, and something called multiple chemical sensitivity.” I said, “I’ll give you the product. Just use it in one room of the hospital so we can get some feedback so we know what’s going on with this.” 

Well, he did that for me, and I was there when the painting crew was applying it to one of the rooms. It was amazing. I was watching this crew applying AFM safe coat paint on this hospital room. I couldn’t smell a thing. It looked absolutely gorgeous, and the crew gets done. They’re talking to Jim, the head of maintenance and buildings and so forth. I’m thinking to myself, this is wonderful. They must use thousands of gallons of paint a year. I would love to be able to work with a medical facility like this.

Jim comes back to me and says, “Yeah, they’re not going to use it.” “What? What’s wrong with it? He said, “They didn’t like the way it applied it. It was thinner, thicker, or something than what they’re used to.” Gave me all of these really ridiculous excuses why they didn’t want to use the paint. After doing this though, I remember getting one doctor and one nurse—separate times—who came up to me and came up to us during this and said, “This is amazing. Where can I buy this for my house?” I thought, well, it’s not available. It’s only available commercially for hospitals, schools, and so forth. 

This nurse said specifically, “I have to make sure that whenever they’re painting in my department, that it’s got to be on my time off because I literally get headaches instantly when they start to paint. It could be 15 rooms down. I’m getting a headache.”

That’s when I really started looking at the whole chemical sensitivity thing. But it also dawned on me at that time, well maybe I should just start selling this to people who are asking for it, not try to sell it to companies who are just caring about the bottom line. Really, that’s what happened with the hospital is that I found out later on. 

The next day, Jim calls me and he says, “I’ll tell you what. The reason why they don’t want to use your paint is because when the painting contractors have a contract for the hospital, they buy paint at this really low price in bulk. But they can also use it for all their side jobs. So they would lose that profit margin for all their side jobs. And they will refuse to use anything that takes away that profit margin.”

I learned, at that point, that hospitals are not necessarily always looking out for our best health. So, it really opened my eyes to the industry. From that point on, the conversations I had, we launched a catalog company—because again, there were no internet websites at the time—selling what we called Common Sense Healthier Building Materials. This was 1992 when we did this, 1996 I believe is when the United States Green Building Council was formed. And the late ‘90s, early 2000s is when the LEED program started, the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design. The entire green building movement started in the late ‘90s really, and that’s when that term became so popular—the term green building.

What happened was those years of studying chemical sensitivity, chemistry, how it affects the human body and so forth—as soon as green building became the norm and became so popular, the entire health aspect was completely forgotten about by the industry. They just focused on energy efficiency and global environmental concerns, which are of course both important, but had nothing to do with human health.

 

[00:32:45] Ashley James: That is absolutely fascinating. I have a friend, she got a degree in green buildings. She’s one of the very few females in the industry in Seattle who manages these high-rise buildings. She’s right there at the top. She manages all the general contractors. She works with the architects and manages these two- to four-year projects where they build these huge mega buildings. She was passionate about, not only energy saving but non-toxic.

When we started this interview, I was thinking to myself, what kind of degrees did he get in this? But you were in it before there was even a class you could take.

 

[00:33:46] Andy Pace: Correct. There wasn’t anything. That’s the thing is that people who are actually getting degrees in sustainable building, sustainable management, or are becoming certified by the U.S. Green Building Council and the LEED program, nothing against what they’re doing. It’s fabulous what they’re doing, but you have to look back to the entire premise of green building and what is used as a metric to validate a building and it’s indoor air quality. In my eyes and many others’ eyes out there, the entire premise is false.

 

[00:34:39] Ashley James: Explain why. So we’re talking about indoor air quality. Why is measuring indoor air quality a false premise for certifying something as a green building?

 

[00:34:49] Andy Pace: Okay. We’ve all heard that stat that indoor air quality can be 10 to 100 times worse than LA on a bad day.

 

[00:34:59] Ashley James: Right. Especially that we’re all at home. I mean, so many people this year work from home. Many children are at home for school instead. I’m not saying that these office buildings or school buildings would be any better or worse but now is even more important to focus on the air quality inside our home and what’s off-gassing in our home. It’s interesting that you say that isn’t the best metric for a non-toxic home or a green home.

 

[00:35:29] Andy Pace: Well, it’s not necessarily that part. The fact that indoor air quality can be 10 to 100 times worse than LA on a bad day is actually true. But how do they measure? What is the main metric used for measuring indoor air quality?

 

[00:35:55] Ashley James: I was going to guess that it was some kind of measuring the amount of chemical particles.

 

[00:36:03] Andy Pace: Okay. Specifically VOCs. You hear this everywhere. VOCs are regulated by the EPA. VOCs have to be lowered in manufacturers’ materials, very similar to the CAFE standards of automobiles. For example, a paint manufacturer decides to start making a zero VOC paint. Not only does it meet the regulations for what a water-based low VOC paint is, but it also allows the manufacturer on the whole to manufacture some of their other products that are very high in VOCs because overall, the average is lower.

 

[00:36:50] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. And for those who don’t know what VOCs are, volatile organic compounds, can you just go back? For listeners who have no idea what you’re talking about, what are VOCs?

 

[00:37:01] Andy Pace: This ties a bow around this whole thing that I’m talking about. Let me give you the exact definition of what a VOC is. A VOC means a volatile organic compound. A volatile organic compound is any carbon-based molecule that’s readily vaporized at room temperature that could rise to the upper atmosphere combined with nitrogen and UV and create smog.

 

[00:37:31] Ashley James: So that really doesn’t sound like it’s applicable in a house.

 

[00:37:33] Andy Pace: No, and this is what I’m talking about that the premise is entirely wrong. Just because something is a VOC doesn’t mean it’s unhealthy for humans. And toxic materials—things that are harmful to humans—are not necessarily VOCs.

 

[00:37:59] Ashley James: So give us an example of a VOC that isn’t toxic. If I was diffusing peppermint essential oil in my home, would that show up as a VOC?

 

[00:38:12] Andy Pace: It can. How about this. Peel the skin off of an orange, it’ll release 850 grams per liter of VOCs.

 

[00:38:20] Ashley James: Clearly something that’s healthy for us or non-toxic for us to peel an orange.

 

[00:38:26] Andy Pace: You know what acetone is, nail polish remover?

 

[00:38:31] Ashley James: Yeah.

 

[00:38:32] Andy Pace: Open up a can of acetone in your house. Just open it up, let it sit there.

 

[00:38:39] Ashley James: I hate that smell so much.

 

[00:38:41] Andy Pace: Within 15 minutes, everybody who lives in that house will have detectable levels of acetone in their liver.

 

[00:38:46] Ashley James: Oh my gosh.

 

[00:38:47] Andy Pace: But according to the EPA, it’s not a VOC. So you have to remember the premise of the whole VOC regulation. It’s because of outdoor air pollution only. There is no regulation on the books based upon VOCs because of their inherent danger to humans. It’s alluded to, it’s talked about, it’s referenced, but it’s not actually a real regulation. The reason is because you mentioned it before. There are over 80,000 chemicals used in the production of building materials and home goods. Out of those 80,000 chemicals, only 3% have ever been tested for the toxicological effects on humans.

 

[00:39:40] Ashley James: Oh wait, hold on. I think that warrants a little bit more discussion. This is crazy. We assume that every drug on the market has gone through rigorous testing, right? And then we take that same assumption and assume that every man-made chemical that is available for our house, for our body, or for our food has been rigorously tested. And you’re saying that only 3% has been tested for safety with humans?

 

[00:40:10] Andy Pace: Correct.

 

[00:40:11] Ashley James: And they haven’t been tested in combination with other chemicals.

 

[00:40:17] Andy Pace: No, not at all. What happens is in the United States, when a manufacturer invents a new chemical compound—and keep in mind, this is happening at a more rapid pace because of things like the VOC regulations, and I’ll get to that in a second. The manufacturer comes out with a new chemical. It submits it to the EPA. I could be wrong about the exact number of days. I believe it’s 120 days that the EPA has to essentially approve it or reject it. So they get 120 days after the application date to approve it or reject it, and they could say, nope, we reject this because it’s going to kill off half the population.

However, because manufacturers are coming out with these new chemical compounds at such a rapid pace, and there’s something like a two-year backlog to do testing, the regulations as they are written today state that if the EPA can’t get to actually testing them within that time period or initially they rubber-stamp it approved.

 

[00:41:36] Ashley James: And how do they test it? On animals? Really, how do you test these chemicals?

 

[00:41:41] Andy Pace: That’s also kind of an unknown. The fact of the matter is that if they get 120 days to test and they don’t test it within 120 days, they have to automatically approve them because there’s a two-year backlog for testing. What happens then is they leave it up to the consumer to essentially file class-action lawsuits with other consumers who’ve gotten sick because of it.

If this were a true leave it up to the marketplace sort of thing where manufacturers were forced to disclose their ingredients, then I can see that would actually be, in my opinion, a better way to go because now you have a complete list of everything that’s in these materials. I’ll use paint because I know paint the best.

On the MSDs or the safety data sheets for a gallon of paint, it’s not an ingredients list. It’s essentially a list of certain chemicals that make up more than 1% of the volume or are not part of a proprietary blend. And they have to list those certain chemicals that may have a hazard component to them. When a manufacturer puts together something like a gallon of paint, you look at the MSDs, and you see three things listed, how could paint be made of three things? Well, it’s not. It’s made of 30 things. Most of those ingredients each make up less than 1% of the volume, therefore do not have to be listed on the safety data sheet.

That’s where the real bad stuff is hidden. You’ve got to remember that the VOC regulations, the safety data sheet regulations, everything out there are written for the protection of the manufacturer, not the consumer. The entire green building movement and indoor air quality component of the green building movement is based upon reducing VOCs in a space. Yet VOCs have nothing to do sometimes, most times, with the true hazardous component of what’s being used inside of a building. Because there are only a couple hundred chemicals used in building materials that’ll be classified as VOCs, yet there are 80,000 chemicals that are available for use.

We’re focusing on the wrong things. We’re not focusing on the toxicity of the ingredients, and the reason why we’re not is because we can’t. Because manufacturers are not being forced to disclose their ingredients. Because they’ve lobbied enough to say to every governmental agency out there that listen, I don’t want to give up my ingredients list because that’s proprietary. I don’t want somebody to copy my products. It really is difficult for somebody.

Believe me, I’ve given this presentation to architectural societies—a room full of people who have been practicing architecture for decades. They’re experts in buildings, and some of these people are experts in green buildings. I tell them about this whole VOC thing and their jaws just drop open. It’s not talked about whatsoever. It’s not talked about that the EPA actually publishes a list of 27 different toxic chemicals that are fully allowed to be used in zero VOC formulations of materials because they specifically do not create a low-level smog. Because they don’t react with nitrogen the way that most carbon-based chemicals do. Manufacturers are allowed to use acetone, ammonia, butyl acetate, and trichloroethane.

 

[00:46:17] Ashley James: These are chemicals that are stressing the liver, causing health issues. But because they don’t contribute to smog, they’re fine, they’re safe. I don’t trust the EPA.

 

[00:46:29] Andy Pace: Because it’s the EPA. They’re the environmental protection agency.

 

[00:46:34] Ashley James: Here’s why I don’t trust them. On 9/11, so many of the emergency responders and the volunteers have gotten major health problems. The EPA was very quick to say—and you can google this and watch news videos of it on 9/11—the air is safe to breathe. The air was not safe to breathe, and these workers and volunteers that were trying to find anyone alive in the rubble or they’re working through the rubble day and night were all exposed to what has either killed them by now or given them a lifelong crippling disease. And the EPA completely failed them. They should have said no, the air is not safe to breathe.

Anyone with an understanding of what was in that air would have said the air is not safe to breathe. They need protection. They need some kind of protection to go in there. That for me I have not trusted them since then. When we trust an organization with our health, we tend to become relaxed. We have to look at how our relationship is as adults with organizations because I think we sometimes become children. I trust this big organization that’s supposed to be looking out for me. It’s like we become children again trusting our parents to do the right thing for us.

So we have to get that it’s always buyer beware, always, always—even if there’s an FDA, a CDC, and all these alphabet soup organizations. They’re not the ones responsible for our health, even though we’ve given them that responsibility. We still have to do our research. We still have to know that everything that we put in our mouths, put in our bodies, and put in our environment is our responsibility. It’s scary. This is the dark side of the way our manufacturing is, the way our consumerism is. That it is buyer beware. And I love that you found the AFM so early on because it allowed you to find a company that was ethical.

I love finding ethical companies to work with like yourself who are going to spend a few more dollars to make sure that the building materials you’re using are safe. Now, what do you think about the environmental working group? Do you like them as a resource when it comes to looking at ingredients for what could be healthy?

 

[00:49:26] Andy Pace: I do. I certainly use a lot of the information they publish. I also look at the product declaration and health declarations that some companies are now having done by a third party. I think that there are certainly many more responsible manufacturers out there now than there ever used to be. I chalked that up to the fact that again, I was telling the story of how we got really started with this. The green building really hit its zenith in about 2005, 2006. At the time, I was actually the president of one of the largest architectural associations in the country. I was talking to friends and colleagues all around the country, and all they talked about was green building.

What happened in the late 2000s? The big recession happened. From a residential standpoint, it used to be that I’d have a customer come in and say, we’re remodeling the bathroom. I want to use this really cool concrete with a recycled glass countertop in the bathroom. I’d say, okay, well here’s the price. It’s a little more expensive than these other materials that are more commercially available. They said that’s all right. I love the fact that it’s recycled content. I think it’s going to be great to tell my neighbors and friends about it.

At that time, people were spending money to buy anything green because that was just the wave we were going on. Then the recession hit and nobody spent money on new homes, remodeling. It was the first time in history that when the new construction market went down, usually what happens is remodeling goes up. Well, first time in history where new construction went down, remodeling went down because people were losing value in their homes for no reason. We were finding that the homes were just overvalued. And so people were losing the equity in their homes. They didn’t want to put any more money into them because it’s just going to be a waste.

That didn’t really correct itself until about 2013. When those customers started coming back into the marketplace, it’s interesting. The individuals who were buying green for the sake of buying green before, a lot of those folks were coming back to us saying, “Hey, remember I worked with you a few years ago?” “Yeah, I remember.” They would say, “We’re remodeling one of our rooms, and we’re looking for healthy flooring or healthy paint.” Their mindset changed during that time. They realized that if they’re going to spend—as you pointed out before—a little more money buying something that’s green, well what is it doing for them personally?

They came back to the marketplace saying it’s got to help us personally as well if I’m going to spend more. I might as well buy something that’s actually healthier for us because while 50% of the world at any given time is going to tell you that the green building movement is garbage. We don’t have to worry about it. Probably closer to 95% of people would say yeah, but if it’s healthier for me and healthier for my family, now it’s worth it.

They almost re-educated themselves to say all right, here’s why we’re going to spend a little more because I don’t have to worry about the toxicity of this stuff. Since then, we’ve seen an explosion in the healthy building market, and very rarely do I get a customer now calling up and asking me if there’s any recycled content in the product that they’re buying. They’ll say, “How does it affect my family? I’ve got somebody in the household who’s got an immune disorder.”

 

[00:53:56] Ashley James: I like that you said healthy building market because green like you’ve said, some kind of builder who’s been certified in green material, that might not even be non-toxic.

 

[00:54:10] Andy Pace: Correct.

 

[00:54:12] Ashley James: I’ve interviewed two people from this mold mitigation company that I really like, Green Home Solutions. I really like them because they invented a kind of enzyme that cracks open mold and digests it. So the mold is not there anymore. If you bleach mold, it’s still there. Even though it’s dead it’s still releasing the toxins. They have something that kills the mold and stops it from releasing its toxins, and then it even stops it for up to two years or something like that and it’s all-natural. It’s just an enzyme that’s completely safe.

In the interviews, they shared that these newer homes that are “green” are worse for mold than 100-year-old homes that are drafty. Drafty is actually good. Let’s say you bought a home that’s built in 2018 and it’s “green,” they made it so heat effective to keep in the heat so you use less energy, to keep in the air conditioning so you use less energy. There are so many barriers and there’s very little flow from outside air, and that ends up trapping moisture in parts of the building—either the basement or the attic. And then they’re seeing in these newer homes a ton of mold.

I thought that was fascinating because here I’m thinking we’ve been constructing houses for thousands of years. This is not a new science, and yet we expect that the latest in architecture and building homes—especially because they call it green—would mean that it is healthier and safer. So what you’re saying is that a green home isn’t necessarily healthier or safer, and could actually be more toxic because it’s trapped the air in thus keeping these chemicals, not necessarily VOCs, but these chemicals. Like you mentioned the acetone for example that within 15 minutes of inhaling it, it’s in our liver. Keeping what’s off-gassing inside the house, and then if it had mold somewhere in the house, keeping all the toxins inside the house and the house isn’t breathing enough, that’s kind of scary.

You do a healthy building. I don’t like the term green building because that makes us give up our power again. That makes us go, it’s a green building, I trust everything here. We stop looking. We stop questioning. So we have to continue to question even though something is “green.”

 

[00:57:07] Andy Pace: Yes. About 15 years ago, I created a building product rating system of my own. There’s a green garden, there’s a green seal, there are scientific certification systems, and all these different organizations’ floor score and so forth. All these third party solutions give us information about whether or not a product is considered green. Well, what I found was when I was trying to train my own staff here and trying to make it so that when a customer called up, everybody on staff would be able to give the same information, without influence, to our potential customers.

What we found out was, after our extensive research on this, there are actually 27 different reasons why you can call a building material green—27 different reasons—and all boils down to three main categories: environmental health, sustainability, and human health. So a lot of these reasons why products are called green essentially go into a category that we would call greenwashing, which is when a manufacturer or a salesperson essentially over exaggerates the overall environmental and health benefit because of maybe one little component, and I’ll give you examples.

There was a very large big box home improvement store here in the US that at the time, in the 2000s, they started adding these eco tags to several products that they were selling in their stores. Eco option or something like that, I forget what the terminology they’re using. This is an eco option, and they put an eco option tag on bags of fiberglass insulation, which first off it’s not an option. Here in Wisconsin, when it gets to be 30 below 0 in the wintertime, it’s not an option to use insulation. It’s actually building code, but they were selling it as an option because that’s an energy saver. They were putting an eco option tag on an electric chainsaw because it uses electricity to cut down trees instead of fuel. That’s a prime example of greenwashing.

There was a manufacturer here down the street that was making, I forget at the time what it was, but they started advertising in the trade publication saying that they were a green company because they have all local manufacturing. Nothing was made overseas until you found out that 98% of the components that they were using were manufactured overseas before they finally put it together here—greenwashing.

Patagonia, I love their products. They were winning environmental award after environmental award because of their eco fleece jackets, hats, and gloves. What eco fleece essentially is taking plastic soda and water bottles, they melt it down, they spin it into a fleece fabric. Great, you’re taking stuff out of the landfills. You’re taking stuff out of the ocean, which in and of itself is fantastic. However, the chemist that originally invented PET back in the ‘30s said in his original report that this product should never come in contact with human skin because it enters into the blood system, it can turn chemicals into trihalomethanes, and essentially eat the body from the inside out.

So we’re giving awards to manufacturers for poisoning us. These are all forms of greenwashing. And so I use this to create what I call my degree of green program. When a customer comes in, we have three main customers that come to one of our showrooms. The first customer comes in and says we are building a new house. It’s got to be as human toxin-free as possible. We have a seven-year-old with autism. She responds very negatively to chemical off-gassing and exacerbates her symptoms and so forth. We need a house that is as synthetic chemical-free as possible. Can you help us?

The next customer walks in and she says I’ve been on this earth for 55 years. I’ve been a burden to the earth for 55 years. Can you help me remodel a home using all recycled, repurposed, and renewed materials? I want nothing manufactured virgin for my house. The third customer walks in and says can you help me build a home with the lowest carbon footprint?

Now, which one of those customers is wrong? None of them. They’re all right in their own way. They’ve all developed their own personal degree of green. The first customer is about human health. The second customer, it’s about sustainability. The third customer is about environmental concerns. All of them are right, yet the industry as a whole treats everybody the same—they call it green.

 

[01:03:01] Ashley James: But the one who’s using recycled material, that’s not necessarily a healthy home.

 

[01:03:07] Andy Pace: No, not at all.

 

[01:03:09] Ashley James: And the one that’s doing the lowest carbon footprint isn’t necessarily a healthy home. It’s not necessarily a low toxic home either.

 

[01:03:16] Andy Pace: And that’s the thing. So yes, I focus on health. That’s what I do. I focus on human health first. What I do is I help customers who are trying to build a new home, I act as their consultant liaison with the architects, the contractors, and all their subs. I always look out for the customer’s best interest when it comes to human health first. And sometimes, that means you have to maybe give up a little bit of the eco-friendliness or the sustainability aspect. The healthiest floor material may not be made in the United States, might be made in the Netherlands. The healthiest paint product may not be natural, it may actually be synthetic.

These are the things that we have to look at and say there is no broad brush for everything. We have to actually look at the ingredients, and we use a heck of a lot of anecdotal information from the 30,000 customers I’ve worked with over my career to say, generally speaking, here’s what they can tolerate. These are the most chemically sensitive of people out there, and here’s what they say worked for them. So after we have enough knowledge and enough data of our own, we can say, on the whole, these are the ones that work the best.

 

[01:04:32] Ashley James: Fascinating. I interviewed a guy who—his name’s escaping me right now, but he worked for the DEA, that was it. He was going after the kind of like Miami Vice. He described it as like back in the ‘70s or ‘80s, he’s like Miami Vice. He was going after the mob basically down there. He went into a new office building and then he got poisoned so bad he was in the hospital. He got his whole detective team trying to figure out who poisoned him because they were taking down the mob, they honestly thought the mob had poisoned him. It took him years before he figured out that he was exposed to building chemicals.

Basically, back then, there weren’t any regulations for when they build a new building. These are high rises like condos and office buildings. And office buildings have different standards than condos. My husband was a union carpenter for 20 years and so he loved to point out the differences in building materials from living in an apartment to working in an office. There are a lot more regulations in an office building so it doesn’t burn down. I’m like why aren’t the same regulations in an apartment building? I always thought it was interesting, but they use different materials and so there are different toxic levels.

He was in an office building that was just built in Miami. They turned on the AC and all the air was recycled. There was no new air coming in. So you can imagine this is like a 50-, 60-story building with all the off-gassing of the new carpets and the paint. A few other people had a similar experience, but he was hit pretty bad. Who knows why. It could be genetics, it could be nutrient deficiencies. Whatever happened he almost died.

It took him I think it was 15 years to recover. He found a Naturopath that figured out what his issue was and actually nursed him back to health. But for something like 10 or 15 years, he had to live in the desert. He couldn’t be exposed to any electricity at all. Any electricity would cause his body to go haywire. He had to live in a house that was metal that had nothing that could off-gas, living in the desert, and he called himself basically bubble boy.

He wrote a book about it. It was a very interesting interview because it really made me see how some people who are exposed to these toxins cause lifelong debilitation, and if you continue to go to MDs who are not experienced in this realm, they might treat you for fibromyalgia or something that’s sort of like a catch-all without knowing that your migraines are triggered by this chemical or that chemical that’s just in your environment.

I have another friend. She and her daughter were debilitated for the last few years because she was exposed to PCBs, radon, lead, and furans—I don’t know if I’m pronouncing that right. There’s an alternative school here in Monroe, Washington, and there’s a really good AP article on it. Basically, a major company that I’m not going to mention their name because of the lawsuit, and I don’t want them coming after me.

Let’s just say it’s a chemical company that was more recently, in the last few years, bought by a pharmaceutical company. There’s a huge class-action lawsuit with hundreds of students and parents, several of which have died of cancer and other diseases because of their exposure to these chemicals in the school building. The school district said the school was safe when it still wasn’t safe. There were PCBs basically dripping from the ceiling and leaking onto the children, onto their desks from these old light fixtures.

Just the horror stories that came out of this building. These are old buildings. They said that the chemicals are in the caulking, that they’re in the light fixtures. There are several building materials that were even 60 years later still causing health issues. We have major, major issues with old buildings like the ones with PCBs. And then we have issues with the very new buildings, right?

It’s not like you can say, oh well, my condo was once a schoolhouse that was renovated. It’s a 100-year-old building or a 50-year-old building so it must not have the 80,000 chemicals in it. That’s not necessarily true. What we’re looking at is any home can be toxic.

 

[01:09:38] Andy Pace: Any home can be toxic. The question I get quite often from clients is can you give me a time frame? If I’m going to look for an existing home, and I do have a number of clients who’ll actually hire me to help them go through Zillow listings to see which homes might be best for them. Is there a certain time frame that I should be looking at or that I should be avoiding?

 

[01:10:03] Ashley James: When were homes the healthiest? What era?

 

[01:10:08] Andy Pace: Interestingly enough, homes that were the healthiest were the ones built prior to World War II. After the war, this is when manufacturing really started ramping up with plastics. Could there be things like lead in the house? Yes, but that’s easier to remediate. Asbestos wrapping around pipes and insulation, easy to remediate. We can see it. We can take care of it.

 

[01:10:40] Ashley James: Copper pipes or whatever.

 

[01:10:41] Andy Pace: But homes themselves, as you said before, were built so energy-inefficient that it allowed for fresh air to come to the house. Homes that were built after the war and specifically homes built in the ‘70s and ‘80s are the ones that I typically avoid. The reason for that is the whole sick building syndrome and environmental illness thing really started becoming problematic after the oil embargo of the early ‘70s by OPEC. Because building materials and buildings themselves were being built tighter, more energy-efficient because of the cost of energy.

I mean even in commercial buildings that you could adjust the amount of fresh air coming into these commercial spaces, the building managers would essentially cut down the amount of fresh air just so they didn’t have to pay to heat or cool it. This is when we first started really learning about environmental illness inside of a building. 

In the ‘80s, that really came to a head because this is when manufacturers really started ramping up with new technologically advanced building materials and things like building wraps that were used on the outside of a structure before your siding that would slow down water come into the building, but it would also slow down the water leaving the building—any moisture inside that cavity—and this is when mold started, and really to be a big problem in the ‘80s.

You had building materials that were made out of wood dust instead of solid wood. That wood dust was held together using urea formaldehyde-based adhesives, and all this is just a recipe for mold. Homes that were built to be sort of airtight but not really just means that moisture gets locked in that exterior cavity wall and eventually you’re going to find a mold spore on some of the lumber that’s going to proliferate because of the environment.

Homes that were built in the ‘90s, 2000s, this is when you started getting homes that were being built, utilizing a bit more of what’s called building science. But they still weren’t really focusing on the human aspect—a human living inside of the space. And now with what we call the healthy building, that’s first and foremost. That’s the very first thing we look at is the health of the human occupant. Everything else is secondary.

 

[01:13:45] Ashley James: As it should be. I mean, it’s your home. If you’re focusing on the health of the human, then the health of the pets is going to come with it. And it’s not like we’re doing this every day. You build the home once, and hopefully, you live in it for a really long time. If it does have a carbon footprint, if it does have an environmental impact, I mean you’re not doing it all the time. You’re doing it once, and hopefully, because you built it to your specifications, it’s your forever home.

 

[01:14:13] Andy Pace: That’s the thing. Part of the equation of building a healthy home is also to utilize materials that you don’t have to replace too often because every time you have to do a project in the home and bring in outside contractors, you’re causing disruption to family life. You’re causing disruption in the air handling equipment. You’re bringing in potential chemical toxicity. So if I can use a flooring material that’s going to last 50 years as opposed to something that lasts 20, even though that flooring material is a little more expensive, in the long run not only is it less expensive because it lasts twice as long, but it’s also going to cut down on any potential toxicity in the future.

We make decisions based on human health first. Now the number one question I get from customers is how expensive is it to build a healthy home? It’s got to be more expensive.

 

[01:15:11] Ashley James: That’s the first question my husband asked me last night. I told him how excited I was about this interview. We were cooking dinner and cleaning dishes, and I told him how excited I was. His first question was, “Well, I wonder how much more expensive is it?” I said, “I mean, Ryan and Teddy had spent pretty much all of their money on all the holistic treatments for their son.” I mean they told their story. This isn’t the secret, but they had to sell their house and they spent all their life savings on their son, and yet they were still able to afford to build their dream non-toxic healthy home.

I told my husband, I’m like, “Well, if Ryan and Teddy could do that after years of exhausting all their resources on saving their son’s life, it sounds like yeah sure, it could be a bit more expensive, but it doesn’t sound astronomical. It doesn’t sound out of one’s reach.”

 

[01:16:17] Andy Pace: Well, there are two things at play here. Number one, what are your tastes for design? Do you want plastic switchblade covers or do you want brass? Think about that. Do you always gravitate towards things that are in the higher price range because you like the better style and you like things that are flashier and so forth?

The other thing is quality level, longevity of materials plays the biggest impact. I actually had an email conversation with a potential client yesterday, and she just can’t wrap her head around the fact—she says, “I’m sorry, but every time I start doing research on healthier building materials, it seems like my prices are going up.” And I said, “Well, what are they going up from?”

What I mean by that is then let’s take paint for instance. Again, I know paint the best. If you’re choosing a gallon of paint that is considered low-cost paint, you put it on the wall, it looks fine. But in six months, the paint starts to dust and shock chalk off the wall, starts to lose its color, lose its luster. You can’t wash it cause it’ll wash right off the wall. This is what’s called an architectural grade or commercial grade paint. It’s used extensively in the commercial industry, and the reason why is commercial buildings are typically repainted every three to five years. That’s just the schedule they’re on.

Inside of a home, if you ever paint your house, you never want to do it again. It’s not an easy task. You have to move furniture. You have to mask everything. You got to take time off of work, or you hire somebody and you spend gobs of money but they do quality work. The fact is that most homeowners never want to repaint walls, or they don’t want to do it any more often than every 20 years.

So premium grade residential paint is far superior in durability, longevity, and color retention than any commercial architectural grade paint out there. When you call a contractor to give you a price on a home, you’re calling three contractors. Most often, these paint contractors are going to be bidding on paint that’s at a very low price point because they just want to get the job. And most homeowners, let’s be honest, don’t have extensive knowledge of paint. I wouldn’t expect them to.

People don’t call up and say I want this quality. This is the product I want. They just say, can you give me a price to paint my house? They’ll give them a price and there it is. 60% to 80% of the price that they get from the contractor will actually be labor and overhead, and a very smaller percentage of 20% to 40% is actually the material itself. If you double the cost of material, you don’t double the cost of the project. 

When people compare pricing and they say it’s so expensive to buy healthy paint, the difference is when you buy healthy materials, 9 times out of 10 you’re also buying higher quality materials, longer-lasting materials because we’ve taken that into the equation. This is why we sell it because you’re not going to have to repaint in 20 years unless you get sick of the color.

So when you say this really price-conscious paint is $30 a gallon and your toxin-free, human-friendly paint is $60 a gallon, but ours lasts four to five times longer. And it’s free of toxins, it just so happens to be. So you’re not paying the extra because it’s healthy, you’re paying the extra because it’s better quality. So now let’s look at an entire home. Use that mentality for an entire home. 

If you were to build a home-based upon big-box deals and lumber yard seconds, you can build a home for $120 bucks a square foot. If you’re going to build a home that you want to be your life-ending home, and you want to be able to resell this home and not lose value because of the quality, you want it to improve value. You might spend $180 to $250 dollars a square foot because it’s better quality. It’s lasting longer, and you can see it. You can feel it in the home.

So it has nothing to do with the health component, the pricing. It has to do with quality.

 

[01:21:13] Ashley James: So, if someone could have a budget and build their home, I mean they don’t need the granite countertops, they don’t need the brass light fixtures. If they have a budget in mind and their sole purpose is we want a non-toxic home, but I like that you say let’s look at investing a bit more if you can. Let’s look at what lasts 50 years versus 20 versus 5. If you’re doing this, you’re hopefully building your forever home.

Now, what about people because it’s less likely that everyone’s listening is going to build their home, although that is my dream. That’s my win the lottery; I’m calling you tomorrow. But if someone’s remodeling, and especially again, I hate to bring up the fact that so many people are homebound these days and may continue to be. Major companies like Google, Facebook, and Microsoft have said that they’re thinking everyone’s going to be basically working from home for the next year. And then who knows with the schools, but many kids are homeschooling or long-distance learning.

So the whole family is at home—not everyone, but a lot of us—and you’re looking around going, man, I really wish I had a better floor. I know I’m looking at my carpet wishing I could replace it right now. And if I did, I’d replace it with something that was non-toxic, of course. So there are certain things that people want to fix up around the house, maybe even just choosing a caulking, looking at their bathtub going, wow, I really need to re-caulk this bathroom before some mold comes in. Or I want to repaint a certain area. Maybe a little do-it-yourself home project. Where would they go to get some resources? Your website is great. The greendesigncenter.com has great information, but could someone hire you to consult them on small projects as well around the house?

 

[01:23:11] Andy Pace: Interestingly enough, I think most of my day is spent on consulting calls with customers all over the world who just have a few quick questions. Unlike a lot of consultants that are hired only for projects, I spend most of my day on 15-minute phone calls. You have a couple of questions that somebody says listen, we’re looking at getting a new heating and ventilating system for our house. Can you just give me a few things to look for? Or we’ve got a contractor here and they’re helping us fix the deck outside. What should we look for a finish or for construction adhesive and so forth?

I would love to have our website be a 100% effective educational tool for all of these things, but the fact of the matter is that it’s impossible. It’s impossible to be able to service everyone just with the information online because everybody’s projects are so different. They all have their own little quirks and issues to deal with, and the only way that I can help is with that conversation. We talk it through, we figure it out.

I’ve got a wonderful client in Hawaii that will hire me every couple of weeks for between 15 minutes and an hour. He himself was a commercial developer for years. He’s retired now, but he said to me last time after working with him for about two years, he goes, “You know Andy, I’ve worked with a lot of consultants in my career. You’re the only one I can actually have a conversation with and you get it. You understand it.”

I come from the building industry, but I’m so used to working with people who have little issues that just need to be fixed. Whether I sell the product or not is kind of irrelevant when I’m being hired as a consultant because I just want you to get the best help that you can. If there is another company that I know of in your area that can provide the services or the materials that you need, I’m going to point you in that direction because ultimately, you’ve got to get this taken care of quickly.

The first customer that I can remember who I really, really went to school with, I’ll say, is a client in Northern Illinois back in ’95. She called me up and she said that she’s been living in one room of her home coated in aluminum foil for the last two years.

 

[01:26:06] Ashley James: I believe it.

 

[01:26:09] Andy Pace: I mean, you talk about the person you were speaking of who lives in an aluminum box. This is essentially what they did. There’s a product out there called Dennyfoil. It’s essentially an industrial aluminum foil that we use to cover things that are off-gassing. When nothing else works, this does. It’s ugly, it’s metallic, it’s shiny and slippery, but it works. When people have no other thing that they can do, this is what they do. She lived in that room for two to three years. For the last six months, her husband was remodeling the house and I was helping her husband choose materials and so forth. She was able to move into that house. Every once in a while, I still get a card or a letter from her just to say thank you.

I’m in business to sell materials and to sell my services, yes. But I can’t tell you what it’s like to have customers who call or email and say you saved my life. I’m not a physician. No, I don’t save people’s lives. I don’t think so. But there are people who have such extreme health issues they’re just looking for somebody to believe them, number one. Because let’s face it, a lot of these folks have been trying to go to their regular doctors and they’re basically being told they’re crazy because no, that can’t happen. You can’t be allergic to chemicals, so on and so forth. But they find somebody who understands it, has been there before. I myself have some sensitivities. I know what it’s like.

And then we have customers now that we have helped like the Sternagels who can live in a house that is safe for them and their family. I mean, it makes it for me getting up every morning and going to work, it’s remarkable and really indescribable.

 

[01:28:24] Ashley James: I love it. When they say you’ve saved my life, you’ve saved the quality of their life.

 

[01:28:30] Andy Pace: Yes.

 

[01:28:31] Ashley James: I mean, they certainly might have died sooner. I mean, we’re all eventually not going to be here in this body. Eventually, we all move on, and it is really about the quality of life that we can create. Having true health means being symptom-free and having a long healthy life that is as symptom-free as possible, as long as possible. I love hearing about 100-year-olds that run marathons. That’s the kind of 100-year-old I want to be. I don’t want to be the 100-year-old that’s suffering in tremendous pain. I want to be 100-year-old running marathons and gardening. I want to die when I’m 120.

The life I live now is what is going to determine the quality of my life later, barring any accidents. That’s what we need to think about when we invest in the health of our home. That that all these materials that come into our life, our food, everything we intake, everything we breathe in, everything we apply to our skin, everything we ingest, it all plays a role in whether we’re going to live that long, healthy, symptom-free life or whether we’re going to suffer now or suffer later.

In holistic medicine, Naturopathy, they look at what they call the Vis or the constitution. And there are two types of constitutions that people have, and you would know both of them because everyone has a friend in their life who has a very weak constitution. The weather changes and they’re bedridden or something. Maybe they eat a little bit of sugar, drink too much wine or too much coffee late at night, and the next day they’re wrecked. They just have a very weak constitution. Those people typically take better care of themselves than the ones like me who have a strong constitution. I can plow through anything. The iron stomach, I can handle anything. We typically don’t slow down to take care of ourselves until we pass out.

I’m imagining the three construction workers, three strapping young men who are standing there in that meeting probably feeling woozy all day not telling you until they completely pass out. They probably had symptoms, but they didn’t listen to those symptoms because it’s not manly to go, I have a slight headache or I feel a little weak. Maybe I need to sit down, and then they pass out. That’s the strong constitution. And in Naturopathic medicine, the ones who have a weak constitution actually typically live longer healthier lives, believe it or not, because they slow down to take care of themselves and listen to their body. It’s the people like me who had to wait for the cosmic 2X4 to hit me over the head before I went, oh I guess I should take care of myself.

So the ones with the strong constitutions, I’m speaking to you guys, even though we’re not affected necessarily by all the things that are off-gassing—although I hate the smell of acetone. My body goes ew, but I don’t get a migraine from it. I know other people do. Okay, my liver is processing it. I don’t want to over toxify my liver. My liver is doing a lot of good for me right now. But it doesn’t put me down and out to have acetone in my environment. Whereas other people, like the woman you mentioned who had to live for three years with aluminum foil around her, would be put down and out if she was inhaling acetone.

 

[01:32:10] Andy Pace: Without a doubt.

 

[01:32:12] Ashley James: Right. So those who are very quick to have symptoms typically will take better care of themselves, and hopefully though, they don’t go to the first drug available because that just masks symptoms. It doesn’t actually get to the root cause. And those of us who have strong constitutions who are like I could live in any home, I don’t care. Well, not everyone in the immediate family that’s going to be living in that home has a strong constitution. The husband might be strong, but the wife is always suffering or vice versa. So that’s one reason to really focus on having a healthy home instead of just toughing through it. And then understanding that those of us who tough through it will suffer later because eventually, the body will break.

 

[01:33:01] Andy Pace: I love the way you describe this because it helps to talk about the fact that everybody is different. The example I use with customers is everybody is born with a drum inside of their body, that all the chemicals and pollutants that we are exposed to on a daily basis, they all filter into this drum and then there’s a spigot on the bottom of that drum that filters it out of the body. Well, sometimes that drum gets filled up faster than others. Some people’s drums aren’t as big. Once that drum fills up and it’s actually filling up faster than it’s draining out, it starts to spill over the top. That’s what chemical sensitivity is. It’s the fact that the body says no more, I can’t do it.

There are three main ways that a person becomes chemically sensitive. One is massive exposure. This is where you hear of somebody who is exposed to a massive chemical. You said about the person you were talking about earlier, massive exposure because of new construction. And there’s probably some chemical—formaldehyde-based—that caused that exposure. I’ll give you a good example of that.

When the EPA built its own headquarters in Washington DC 30 years ago.

 

[01:34:37] Ashley James: Oh my god, I’m just imagining the disaster. Okay, go on.

 

[01:34:41] Andy Pace: So the EPA built its new headquarters, and within the first two weeks, I believe it was 1200 people who worked in that building had to go home because of getting sick. It turns out it was the carpet and the carpet adhesive that was causing everybody to get sick. To this day, 30 years later, there are over 100 people who are still on permanent disability.

 

[01:35:12] Ashley James: No. This is such a great example. So many people blindly trust that the EPA is out for our best interest. They wouldn’t approve a chemical in our environment that would harm us, but they themselves were poisoned by their own building materials that they were supposed to approve.

 

[01:35:36] Andy Pace: Correct. That’s because of just what they’re looking for. They’re not looking for human health issues. That’s an example of massive exposure. Or another example would be legionnaires disease. When you have these legionnaires in Philadelphia who are massively exposed to this bacteria. The second way that people become chemical sensitive is typically a high-impact medical procedure—car accidents resulting in surgery, childbirth changes the chemistry and electrical impulses in a person’s body. It’s something to do with a health-related issue that changes the chemistry in the body. So you hear this all the time that somebody just has a medical procedure and all of a sudden they get rashes every time they use a certain type of soap. It just changes the chemistry of the body.

 

[01:36:44] Ashley James: Sorry to interrupt, Dr. Joel Wallach—who’s one of my mentors, I’ve had him on the show a few times. He’s been my mentor for the last 10 years. 80-year-old Naturopathic physician who’s also a research scientist, a pathologist, a veterinarian, and has a degree in soil agriculture is really interesting. He would say that when we go through major health events, the body becomes depleted of certain nutrients. 

For example, selenium is a trace mineral that the liver needs in order to recycle glutathione, and the body also needs in order to protect the thyroid. When we go through major issues like childbirth, an infection, or surgery, and if we’re not getting enough of that in our food, which so much of our food is depleted in certain minerals, then the body becomes more depleted. Then the liver cannot process toxins in the same way it used to because it’s just deficient.

He often says if people all of a sudden have these chemical sensitivities after some kind of health event, that we have to look at nutrient deficiencies that were exacerbated by these life events. Well, you mentioned legionnaires. For those who don’t know anything about that, can you fill us in?

 

[01:38:01] Andy Pace: A little bit. Legionnaire’s disease is essentially a bacterial infection that was caused by legionella—I shouldn’t say bacterial infection. It was actually a mold that was growing in the HVAC system of a large convention center. These people, these conference-goers, these American legion, the legionnaires—where this kind of came from—were getting sick. And after much research, I realized that this is what caused it. It was mold in the HVAC system in a stagnant drip pan that was not cleaned out properly.

 

[01:38:57] Ashley James: And so they end up having lifelong issues and exposure. So anytime they’re exposed to other toxins—that’s something that a lot of people don’t know is that when you’re exposed to mold, mold could actually live in your bloodstream and mold can continue to cause toxins for years to come inside your body. Just like a parasite would continue to grow or bacteria or yeast. It’s similar to that, and there are certain foods, herbs, and supplements we can take to mitigate that and help the body rid it. But that’s like that barrel that you mentioned.

I interviewed Dr. Stephen Cabral who wrote a book, The Rain Barrel Effect, and it’s almost the exact same thing that you said. Our barrel gets full, and we’ve got the spigot at the bottom. The spigot is like how healthy are your kidneys, how healthy is your liver, how healthy is your emunctory system to remove the toxins, and how much is coming in on the top. And then eventually, when it overflows, we’ve got these weird symptoms like someone will have migraines, someone will have rashes, someone will have digestive issues, and someone will just be exhausted all the time or be in pain all the time.

 

[01:40:19] Andy Pace: That’s what comes in the third way that people become chemically sensitive and it’s the most common—low-level exposure over a long period of time. And again, it’s just that barrel fills up. Maybe it’s when you’re 30 years old, 20 years old, or 80 years old, and at some point, the barrel fills up. What I see—and I’m not an MD nor am I a chemist, but years of experience showed me that when your barrel fills up, it’s typically something that is petrochemically related to what caused the spill that will cause the next symptom or the next reaction.

 

[01:41:09] Ashley James: Can you explain that?

 

[01:41:10] Andy Pace: And in our experience, formaldehyde is that key trigger. Formaldehyde is found in so many products around our home.

 

[01:41:20] Ashley James: Give us some examples.

 

[01:41:22] Andy Pace: Well, the best example I can give you is a carpet. Not to scare anybody.

 

[01:41:28] Ashley James: My bare feet are on the carpet right now. I’m kind of freaking out.

 

[01:41:31] Andy Pace: Okay. I will warn you that I have been told by some people that I scare them once in a while, but I don’t try to.

 

[01:41:43] Ashley James: I think every guest scares us a little. The thing is, we don’t want to be the ostrich with our head in the sand because that’s how we end up with long-term exposure, to begin with. And you’re not the total bearer of bad news because you’re giving us some resources to fix it. But okay, here we have formaldehyde and carpet. Is it all carpet or only some carpet? And does it eventually all off-gas, or is 50-year-old carpet, 20-year-old carpets, or 10-year-old carpets still have it?

 

[01:42:12] Andy Pace: So if someone were to ask me what’s the one thing I can do in my house today to make it healthier, I will always say remove the carpet. I’d rather have you live on a plywood subfloor until you can afford new flooring material. Now, I know nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants to walk around their house barefoot on plywood. I understand the logistics of what I’m saying, but I say this because—and barring a couple of shining examples of some healthy materials that are out there. 

A company called Nature’s Carpet from Canada, another one called Earth Weave from here in the US. They do make a synthetic chemical-free carpet that my most sensitive clients can actually use. But their materials—in the grand scheme of things—are used in 1/100 of 1% of homes in the United States, if that. So that’s why I say removing the carpet and here’s why. 

There was a researcher chemist years ago named Rosalind Anderson. She did an amazing study on the effects of carpet and the effect of a shaft of light coming through a window and heating up a space of carpet. Because back when she was doing these tests she was using lab rats, she found that carpeting as old as 20 years old would still off-gas enough to literally kill laboratory rats.

 

[01:44:07] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. And just think anyone’s cat loves to go lie in the sun on the carpet.

 

[01:44:15] Andy Pace: Yes. So you mentioned before when you were talking about how this also affects animals, that’s exactly what I’m thinking of. How do I wrap a bow around this? Several years ago, I was introduced to a testing system that actually AFM used for their paints and coatings to prove the effectiveness of their materials. There was a very well-known scientist in Japan, Dr. Nagasawa, and he created a method to determine the emissivity of formaldehyde off-gassing from a fixed surface. I’m trying to explain this as easy as possible.

 

[01:45:11] Ashley James: I mean, by all means. If you want to get a little technical or get into the science, we’re all for it. You don’t need to dumb stuff down for us. My listeners are super smart.

 

[01:45:21] Andy Pace: I’m sure they are and so allow me to geek out a little bit.

 

[01:45:25] Ashley James: Yeah, please do. Let’s geek out. All right, let’s do it.

 

[01:45:28] Andy Pace: This is what makes me happy. So if you’re a building biologist or an indoor air quality scientist, you walk into a space, you’ve got a handheld monitor, and it tells you that you have elevated VOCs and elevated formaldehyde. You might even do an air capture test where you’re absorbing air into a tube and you’re actually looking in a lab either with a spectrophotometer or the types of devices to read what the chemical compound is in the air.

So a customer calls and says I’ve done these really, really intense tests and I found that I’ve got a formaldehyde problem in my house. Where’s it coming from? Well, AFM years ago started working with Dr. Nagasawa and found that he used the system to actually determine what in the house was releasing formaldehyde. We can all guess it’s from the carpet, maybe from paint that’s still off-casting, maybe from cabinetry, or this or that. But when you are trying to remediate something inside of your home and you’ve got a formaldehyde problem, you’re literally throwing darts at what you think can be the problem.

I mean I had a situation a few years ago where a client of mine called up and said, “All right, we’ve had two air quality scientists in our house. They tell us we’ve got elevated formaldehyde. The whole family is sick. And what we’ve determined and what they’ve determined is well it’s this we put in new prefinished hardwood flooring in our house. They have all said we’ve got to remove it and replace it with something else. So I’m calling you to verify that and can we get a flooring material that’s not going to off-gas formaldehyde?”

I said, “Yes, you can get a foreign material that’s not going to off-gas, but let’s just make sure it’s not something else.” Well, I drove up to Minneapolis, and I actually had what’s called a FRAT system—formaldehyde release attenuation test. We import it from Korea. We’re the only company in North America that uses this test. I use the FRAT system in her house, little sensors I placed all over the place to prove that it was the flooring material that was causing the formaldehyde off-gassing. After a half-hour, and I took those sample collectors from all over the house all over the floor, found that the newest new flooring material released zero formaldehyde. But yet they had ultra-high levels of formaldehyde in the house.

So I started thinking to myself, well, what else in the space could be releasing formaldehyde at that level? I checked cabinetry. I checked the painted walls. I checked the furniture. I even put a sensor on a return on an outlet thinking that maybe I’d get some off-gassing from the insulation in the wall that would come out through the outlet and maybe we’d prove it’s that. After about two hours of testing, it dawned on me, what’s the only other thing in the house that was new that could cause this type of off-gassing?

Again, this is a 5,000 square foot home, $50,000 or $60,000 dollars worth of new hardwood flooring, but every room had an area rug. I tested every area rug to find that the formaldehyde off-gassing from the area rugs was well over the toxic limit. We’re looking at between 300 and 500 parts per billion of formaldehyde coming just from each area rug in the house, and every room has at least one or two.

 

[01:49:32] Ashley James: I mean, okay, so it’s a hardwood floor but it’s a huge house—sounds really fancy. But these area rugs, are you talking about the kind you could just pick up at Ikea?

 

[01:49:42] Andy Pace: Sure. Once you find an Ikea, Target, or the ones you buy online for thousands of dollars, it doesn’t matter. The fact is that formaldehyde is used in the chemical dyes, formaldehyde is used as antimicrobials and flame retardants in the backing.

 

[01:49:59] Ashley James: So even if you get one of those really expensive Persian rugs, they still have the formaldehyde off-gassing?

 

[01:50:04] Andy Pace: There can. It may be less because there’s no backing to a Persian rug, but there are dyes used. This is what got me on the whole carpet kick. I mean really got me on the carpet kick. It taught me two things. Number one, for the cost of the testing, I improved this family’s life instantly. It’s a six-hour drive from where I live to Minneapolis. So I drove home, and by the time I got home, there’s an email from my customers saying everybody is starting to feel better already. All they did was remove the area rugs and put them in the garage. They were actually talking about either replacing the material or actually building a new home because they didn’t know what to do.

 

[01:50:56] Ashley James: What did they do with the area rugs? Did they throw them out? I mean, you don’t want to donate them. Were they waiting for them to off-gas?

 

[01:51:03] Andy Pace: That’s a dilemma. I mean, that’s one of those environmental sustainability dilemmas. You don’t want to throw it out to add to a landfill. You don’t want to donate them because it’s dangerous. Again, it’s not always dangerous to everybody because they don’t have as small of a bucket as they had. So I’m not exactly sure what they ended up doing with them. I do know that they replaced them with healthier area rugs and it made a difference.

So formaldehyde we know is a big, big trigger, and that’s why we use this FRAT system now to help test homes. I have clients around the world sending me samples of what they want to install, and we’re going to test it first. So let me get back to Dr. Rosalyn Anderson who is doing the testing of this carpet. It got me testing carpet in homes like regular wall-to-wall carpet, and people would hire me to test 30-year-old carpet. I’d find that 30-year-old carpet still off-gases toxic levels of formaldehyde.

 

[01:52:04] Ashley James: Does this test heat it up? I’m sorry to interrupt. Does this test heat up the carpet, or is it just testing it at the same temperature like 70 degrees?

 

[01:52:12] Andy Pace: Pacificity at room temperature. I’ve done some elevated heat tests just to show the difference. But when I test carpet in somebody’s home, I always test it at the temperature that they’re going to keep it at.

 

[01:52:28] Ashley James: You might be coming in the fall and their windows are open and it’s 67 degrees and they like it. But in the wintertime, maybe they crank up the heat.

 

[01:52:41] Andy Pace: About a 10- to 15-degree variance doesn’t do much. Do you know what I found that does more? Humidity. Now, this is where it starts to really get into the wonky building science stuff. I am finding that most people’s homes and the health of the occupants are just as affected by the elevated humidity or elevated moisture than they are from the chemicals themselves. And the reason is when you get humidity in a home or moisture in a home that gets into a surface, as it evaporates out of the surface, it carries with it the chemical footprint of where it was.

So chemicals in materials are more apt to become airborne and therefore ingested, inhaled, or absorbed by us if they come off of a surface with the humidity coming from that surface.

 

[01:53:42] Ashley James: That makes total sense because so much of the body is water and humidity allows for toxins to travel farther and also get absorbed by the body more readily. That makes sense. So if someone’s living in the desert, the formaldehyde coming off of their carpet is less, or the body’s ability to absorb it is less?

 

[01:54:08] Andy Pace: It comes down to the individual, but I find that the body’s ability to absorb chemicals—there’s just more chemicals available in the air when you have higher humidity.

 

[01:54:30] Ashley James: Okay. So that’s good to know.

 

[01:54:35] Andy Pace: This is where this subject becomes there’s no right or wrong, there’s just more information. The more information we get the better. When a customer says they’re having a problem in their home, I’ll ask them, have you done an air test? Do you know what the humidity level is? Do you like to open up the windows? And they’ll say, “Yeah, we painted today and we opened up the windows.” Well, that brought in more humidity. There are so many things that could cause, which is why this is just not an exact science yet, and we really have to take each customer individually.

 

[01:55:11] Ashley James: Right. We got off track, but you’re telling a story of using this special machine and you’re using it on carpets. You’re finding formaldehyde, which is only one of many things that off-gases from most carpets.

 

[01:55:34] Andy Pace: Correct. There are many things that come off of carpets, but we always look for formaldehyde as the one thing that we can not only test for but we can control.

 

[01:55:46] Ashley James: Now I interviewed Dr. Ben Lynch, it’s episode 225, and he wrote a book called Dirty Genes. I highly recommend that book, and he mentioned some simple things that we can do in our lifestyle right now to reduce toxic overload. But one thing he said, which just floored me because I’ve always cooked with gas, very seldom have I used an electric stove. I’ve opted for homes, apartments, condos, or whatever that has gas. I’m a foodie, I love cooking healthy food, but gas for me is so much fun to cook with versus an electric stove or induction stove.

He says if you cook with gas, you absolutely 100% of the time have to have the ventilation on, the hood on, and there are even homes and I’m surprised I’ve met two friends who have gas stoves and have zero ventilation, zero hood. That surprised me, but what he said was if you’re using natural gas, you are breathing in formaldehyde because formaldehyde is in natural gas. I don’t know if it’s just in it or they add it to it. But it is in natural gas to the point where if you don’t ventilate, you’re breathing in more formaldehyde.

What he said was—and I’m trying to remember, he obviously can say it in more scientific terms, but it essentially causes an epigenetic shift in our gene expression in the ability for our liver to handle toxins. So it shuts down or suppresses our ability to handle toxins, which then is going to make it worse.

 

[01:57:18] Andy Pace: It overloads the system, and that’s the thing. Now, the flip side of that is you start cooking using electricity and now you have to be concerned about electromagnetic fields. So this is where with our clients I’ll have to say, there is no perfect solution for everybody. There’s no one thing that helps everybody. So Ben is right in saying that if you’re cooking with gas, it has to be well ventilated, and I’ll take that one step further.

If you’re going to use a gas range top or stove, you better make sure it’s the absolute best quality unit you can afford because as the quality level goes up—and this is why I always recommend using Wolf, Viking, or Thermador. I know they’re very expensive, but when you get to the more expensive units, they have sealed burners. So yes, when you’re cooking you have to have the vent on. But what if you’re not cooking? What if the unit is just sitting there being unused? The lesser quality systems will actually leak little bits of gas out of each burner.

I own a natural gas detector, and I go around to some people’s homes. It’s like oh my gosh, this is a toxic level of gas that’s coming out. And beyond that, even with the expensive units, you have to be concerned about the connections of the gas pipe itself. Making sure that was done properly and you inspect it every couple of years to make sure it’s not leaking. Because that’s where you’re going to get natural gas leaking in your home passively without you even using the stove.

Nobody is going to run their exhaust hood 24/7 in case that happens. We only run it when we’re using the stove. So be mindful of the quality. If you know somebody with a meter or buy one yourself and just check it. I use it around the house all the time to make sure that my furnace isn’t leaking, my hot water heater isn’t leaking. I’ve used it in commercial buildings. I mean it’s just an invaluable tool.

 

[01:59:41] Ashley James: That is so fascinating. What other things are really common that is mind-blowing that people don’t know about?

 

[01:59:52] Andy Pace: So inside of a home, when it comes to chemical toxicity or chemical off-gassing, 90% of what you can experience in that indoor air quality is going to be because of things you can see and touch. Floors are number one. Floors are always the first thing we look for, and obviously, you know how I feel about carpet, but floors, in general, can be the biggest offender in a home. Second thing, walls and ceilings. All of your painted, wallpapered, or finished surfaces. The third thing would be cabinetry and woodwork. The last thing would be your own furnishings and finishes. Your window treatments, your furniture, your clothing, and things like that.

Those four things cover 90% of the potential toxins in your home. Insulation behind the walls, sheathing, roofing materials, additives in concrete—things like that only constitutes up to 10% of the toxicity. The problem is that when you’re remodeling a home, you typically don’t get involved in testing or fixing those things. You typically only have one chance to choose the right materials for those applications, and that’s during new construction.

So if you’re living in an apartment, if you’re living in a home that you just want to help and you can’t do anything structural, and I’m not saying throw out your furniture, throw out this, throw out that. When it comes time to buy something new, then let’s try to choose things that are organically sourced materials that are actually being sold as being free of health hazards and toxins. 

You can’t really replace your cabinetry when you’re renting, but you can improve the indoor air quality by maybe getting a portable air purifier. Keep in mind that the bedroom in anybody’s residence, home apartment, it doesn’t matter. If you own, you rent, the bedroom is the sanctuary, it should be. This is where we spend, hopefully, six to eight hours a night and the body regenerates itself. You have to be in a pristine environment in order for the body to do its best work. Make sure that is the healthiest room.

 

[02:02:45] Ashley James: I have an Austin air filter and we got it a few years ago. My son has had some issues with asthma, which we finally figured out was related to some allergies, which no one in our family has these allergies so we’re like what’s going on. But sometimes kids will grow out of them. It has allowed us to dive into this world of looking to clean up the air quality even better. 

A few years ago—I think it was about three years ago—there were some really bad forest fires in BC, in Washington, and the whole western seaboard was basically on fire a few years ago, as it was this last year. Back then we didn’t have an air filter. I wasn’t even thinking about it. We had all the windows open, and it was kind of really hot. I think it was maybe August or September. It was so hot out that we had a box fan blowing cool air into the bedroom. Of course, it was blowing all the smoke into the bedroom, and I wasn’t really thinking about it because there weren’t any forest fires near us. But the air quality was so poor that it damaged our lungs. All of us ended up, within a month or two, with bronchitis.

I talked to my Naturopath who said that pretty much all of her clients that didn’t have an air filter ended up with some form of bronchitis or pneumonia, and that’s what led me to look into this. I kind of was like hitting myself because I’m so into health, how could this have been in my blind spot? But this is how we learn. After research and talking to a lot of holistic doctors, I ended up getting an Austin air filter. It is an investment, it’s between $600 and $800, depending on the unit you get. I decided to get the one that removes mold and viruses. I mean really tiny particles, and we have loved it.

When we walk into the bedroom, it actually smells like a forest. The air changes when we walk in. It’s very interesting, and I don’t particularly feel like I live in a toxic home, but that air filter we run in the bedroom, and it really does change the feeling of the air, the smell of the air—just the quality overall. We run it all night long, and now I don’t even want to sleep without it on. I just love it.

 

[02:05:11] Andy Pace: That’s my personal favorite brand too. As a matter of fact, you speak of the fires that were happening a couple of years ago. I had a customer of ours living in Northern California that actually went around to all of her neighbors in her subdivision because she bought one from us, loved it so much she went to every neighbor in her subdivision and said if you want to improve the air quality of your home instantly, you need one of these. She organized the purchase of two pallets, two full shipping pallets of Austin airs to be shipped to her house so she could get them to all the neighbors.

 

[02:05:51] Ashley James: I just love her. The big one, the one that I got that’s like the big bedroom unit does 1500 square feet. When there is bad air quality from the fires, we move it out into the living room, which is kind of the grand room and it very quickly recycles or cleans out all the air pretty much in all the major living spaces in the house. 

Don’t cheap out and get the small one because you can move it around. It’s on wheels and you can move it around different parts of the home. If you’re hanging out in the kitchen, living room, dining room area during the day, just have it running there. I’ve moved it into the office before. It’s a little overkill in a 200 square foot office, but better than getting the smaller unit and then regretting not being able to clean out the whole house.

 

[02:06:43] Andy Pace: Right, and the larger units just do it quicker also in those smaller rooms. That’s the only limitation of a portable is that it can only really purify the air in the space that it’s in. Because we sell the Austins and we’ve been very happy with that, but we have a lot of situations where customers are looking for a whole-house solution. They have kids in different bedrooms and people in different areas of the home. There are whole-house solutions as well, but tell you what, Austin has the highest amount of carbon in their units of any other system we’ve used before. They’re just highly effective, they work. They might be a little noisy for some people. I’m used to it.

 

[02:07:29] Ashley James: I like the sound. I don’t know. It doesn’t make a squeaking noise or any kind of high-pitched noise. It’s just a nice whooshing sound. It’s air moving, and I got used to it really fast and actually enjoyed the sound. We put it on medium when we’re sleeping, but when I first go into the bedroom, I’ll turn it on high and let it do its thing. And then I put it on medium and I find that that speed for me is great. I don’t like the sound of the low speed. I resonate with the medium speed sound. It’s not annoying at all for me. I do know some people who are like I can’t sleep with any sound on. And then for me, I’m like, okay, well then have it run on high for a few hours before you go to bed and then turn it off, or just try to get used to it.

 

[02:08:14] Andy Pace: yeah I turn it on high when I leave for the office, and I turn it on medium or low when I get home.

 

[02:08:19] Ashley James: That’s a good idea. And these filters last forever. They’re four or five years before you have to replace it. It’s not like something you have to replace every few months like the filters in your furnace. I was thinking, you have been in this business for so long, having been connected to so many people around the world, is there a country that’s doing it right? Is there a country that you can say like Finland? Is there just a country without a doubt, across the board, has healthier homes?

 

[02:08:51] Andy Pace: This is going to be an interesting conversation I think because I used to hear this all the time from people. I wish we did things like they did in Europe. Well, you have to remember that here in North America, the way we build homes is based upon what we have the most access to. In Europe, the way they build homes is what they have the most access to. It just so happens that here in North America, we are plentiful with hardwood. So homes since the 1600s have been built using a lot of wood. The problem is there are not a lot of homes that remain from the 1600s because wood is a natural material that eventually breaks down. It eventually absorbs water, warps, and molds, and cracks and is subject to weathering.

When I was in Italy many years ago, the villa that I stayed in was built in the 1400s. And it still operates today as a hotel 600 years later. The Colosseum built 2,000 years ago still stands. Why is this? And that’s because they use a lot of stone, a lot of concrete because that’s what’s plentiful there. Now, of course, they’ve adapted to the marketplace, and they’ve started using wood for a lot of construction. But you got to remember that they still have that mindset of using materials that last a long time. 

Homes in Sicily when I was there on that same trip, they’re not designed to be the latest fashion and the latest color and craze. They’re designed to last because they pass them along to the next generation.

Carpet, this is a good example of here, in the United States, we use a lot of carpets. In Europe, they don’t use a lot of carpets. If they have carpet in their house, it’s typically a wool rug, and it’s typically a wool rug that they can roll up and take with them if they ever move because wool lasts 80 years. Whereas the plastic and synthetic carpets that we use here are designed to last 7 to 20 years at maximum because we typically either move or we get bored with what we have and we want to change it to make it look different.

It’s the mindset of that. They’re not as concerned about trends, fashions, and comfort per se. They’re more concerned about cost, longevity, and passing along to the next generation. So I guess I’d say Europe has a lot of things on us. Older countries than the United States, the United States is so young. We’re only a few hundred years old. When you take an airplane from New York to Los Angeles and you notice that 99% of what you fly over is greenery and not homes, they’re not people, you’re flying over unhabituated space.

When you go to Europe and you say well Italy’s got 50 some million people living in it, and it’s the size of the state of Wisconsin. We’ve got 5 ½ million people. It’s that there are more people there. They’ve been around longer there. They’ve learned to live within their environment. So that’s just the way it’s done. There are a lot of countries that still don’t do things like refrigeration for foods because they can’t afford it or they don’t have a good electrical grid. They buy the food that they prepare for the day, and whatever’s left they don’t save for tomorrow, they usually give it to the farm animals. That’s done. Tomorrow we’ll buy food for tomorrow. And so that’s the mindset they have.

They do a lot of recycling because they have to, they don’t have a choice. Now, I wish there are things that they would do that were better. I think the rest of the world does a very, very poor job in recycling specifically plastics. I think the United States leads the world in recycling, and the reason is because we’ve figured out a way to monetize it and make it worth everybody’s while. So there are things that we are doing here. I think from a health aspect, we’re doing some things that are better than what’s done in Europe. But I just think that they have that mindset of longer-lasting and therefore they look at things a little bit differently.

 

[02:14:20] Ashley James: Only coming from the standpoint of a healthy home, and I love that explanation because it’s true. It’s based on the history of the culture, it’s based on the materials that are readily available. But in terms of only looking through the lens of a healthier home or the healthiest homes, is there a country out there that is standing above the rest who has better regulations? Who their version of the EPA is actually doing their job, or they don’t allow for formaldehyde in their carpets? Is there any country that’s just really standing above the rest?

 

[02:15:04] Andy Pace: I think that there are a number of European countries that are doing some things that in my eyes just really stick out just from a common-sense standpoint. And I’ll be fair, there are some states here in the US that are also doing that. There are some states now where it’s building code you have to put in a heat recovery ventilator to bring in the fresh air. Because as we talked about a little while ago in our discussion, new homes are being built so tight that we’re not getting those natural air flows into the home, natural fresh air because it’s against the building science to have energy leaks.

Well, the state of Minnesota several years ago adopted into their building code that you have to have an air exchange system for new construction to bring in the fresh air because they recognize that these homes are being built so energy tight, so efficient that people aren’t getting enough fresh air so I think that’s happening.

 

[02:16:14] Ashley James: Right. Especially if someone has a few fireplaces going, they’re really burning through their oxygen.

 

[02:16:21] Andy Pace: It sucks all the oxygen out of the house, right?

 

[02:16:23] Ashley James: Yeah, scary.

 

[02:16:24] Andy Pace: Now, I worked with an automobile manufacturer many years ago—BMW out of Germany. At the time,  ng this is when they just started manufacturing cars here in the US. One of their material vendors in Michigan was supplying a plywood component for their SUVs. So when you open up the back hatch there’s a flat panel and you lift up that panel, that’s where the spare tire was. Well, that flat panel was being made from plywood. It was Malaysian plywood that they were bringing into the states, and they were putting carpet on one side and paint on the underside.

Well, the SUVs for BMW were only being made in the United States, they weren’t making these in Germany. So they had to export essentially the SUV to Germany to be sold for the German market. The German government wouldn’t allow this SUV to be sold in Germany because the plywood was releasing formaldehyde.

 

[02:17:35] Ashley James: Oh my gosh.

 

[02:17:37] Andy Pace: And in Germany, if you make a car that’s to be sold in the German market, there cannot be formaldehyde in the air, in the cab. So this company had something like $2million dollars’ worth of cut plywood to be installed into the BMW SUV, and it halted production because the German government wouldn’t allow it.

Now, we were able to provide them with a couple of AFM coatings to solve that problem, and it met the requirements of zero formaldehyde because the safe coat coatings covered up the off-gassing.

 

[02:18:13] Ashley James: Now, did they give you a BMW X5 as a gift?

 

[02:18:19] Andy Pace: I wish. But no, it actually got me on the whole kick of finding manufacturers that utilize healthier processes.

 

[02:18:27] Ashley James: That’s really cool.

 

[02:18:28] Andy Pace: I mean, if you’re looking for a healthy vehicle, if you buy a BMW, it’s got to be one that was made in Germany for the German market that they also exported to the US.

 

[02:18:40] Ashley James: Could it be any German car though? I have a VW, I love it. I love my VW. I’ve had BMWs in the past, I’m not actually a fan of new BMWs anymore. In my opinion, their quality has gone down. We have a 1983 BMW and that thing’s still kicking.

 

[02:19:01] Andy Pace: Oh yeah, it’s solid.

 

[02:19:03] Ashley James: It’s solid. My husband just replaced the engine a few years ago, but the newer ones, they’re really only meant to last till the end of the warranty, and you do not want to be out of warranty. We saw that coming. But with the VWs, they’re a lot of fun. They’re really great on gas mileage. I’m very impressed.

 

[02:19:22] Andy Pace: I’ve owned many VW’s over the years, and I absolutely love them. So yes, German cars—

 

[02:19:28] Ashley James: Made in Germany for Germans, basically. You got to make sure it’s not made for the US market.

 

[02:19:35] Andy Pace: That’s it, that’s the thing. And a number of these manufacturers now are starting to make cars in North America, so that changes the dynamics. So you got to look for something that was built in Germany.

 

[02:19:49] Ashley James: We need to—as a consumer—petition the US government, and for Canadians petition the Canadian government to raise the standards.

 

[02:20:01] Andy Pace: Yes. This is the problem we get into because of lobbying by the big companies. And again, there is no standard for health. All the standards that are being written—at least what I’ve seen—are based upon VOCs. This whole concept of VOCs is just ubiquitous, it’s everywhere. People use a VOC like oh, I bought this paint, it’s zero VOC. I guess I’m safe. I guess I can paint in my house with the windows closed and no mask on. No, there have been class-action lawsuits against paint manufacturers because of people getting sick because their zero VOC paint is less healthy than their regular stuff.

The FTC here in the US has fined many paint companies because their zero VOC paint basically dupes the public. Utilizing a VOC as the one and only metric to determine whether or not a product is safe is dangerous because of everything we talked about before.

 

[02:21:14] Ashley James: Fascinating. Just because you’ve got a whole list of companies, give me a few more. So like you said, cars built in Germany. Not necessarily just BMW, but all cars built in Germany for Germans. Are there any other countries or major products that you are like yes, this is the one to go with when it comes to buying major, like you said, appliances or major purchases for the home?

 

[02:21:41] Andy Pace: So like I said before when you’re buying appliances, specifically gas appliances, getting the higher-end materials unfortunately are far more expensive but are less likely to have gas leaks. So that’s going to be things like Wolf, Viking, Thermador. Even the GE Profile, really good brand. These units will have sealed burners. It makes them more efficient for cooking because if it says that a burner is 16,000 BTU, you don’t want a leak that lowers the BTU output. So that’s what you’re paying for. You’re paying for that 16,000 BTU.

Again, it’s interesting how everything kind of comes back to this. The quality level of the product also means that it’s a healthier material. So if I’m buying 99¢ a square foot flooring from some big box store, chances are if the average price of similar material—just an average price—is $3 a square foot, and the price of really good material is $5 a square foot, chances are the 99¢ per square foot product is going to be inferior in quality and in health. There are some exceptions. There are always exceptions, but generally speaking, you get what you pay for.

 

[02:23:14] Ashley James: And those companies have to cut corners.

 

[02:23:17] Andy Pace: It’s coming from somewhere folks. It’s coming from the cost of manufacturing. Paint, I referred to this before. Paint that’s $20 a gallon is not going to last as long as paint that’s $70 a gallon. And I’m not just talking about AFM safe coat, I’m talking about Benjamin Moore Aura, which is $70 a gallon. Great product. It’s not necessarily considered healthier, but it’s a great long-lasting material.

Paints can off-gas anywhere from three and a half years to five years on a wall. Once it’s reached a full cure—coalescing of the film—the material still continues to off-gas, and this is something that I think a lot of people don’t understand. Chemical off-gassing and I referred to this throughout our conversation, is actually the release of unreacted chemical monomers from a cured or a solid-state of a surface. Paint can off-gas for three and a half to five years. Little bits and pieces of some of the components that come off as kind of like dust from a surface.

Formaldehyde can off-gas from the carpet. I’ve tested carpet up to 30 years old that still off-gases formaldehyde. Plywood because of the urea-formaldehyde used in the glues. I’ve tested 35-year-old engineered wood that off-gases formaldehyde because we cover it up with other flooring materials and it stops off-gassing because it’s covered up. Open it back up again and remodel, you’re just exposing it to come back out again.

So all these things can off-gas for very long periods of time. You may not smell it, you may not know it, you personally may not even sense it, but somebody in the house might. And you combine that with all the other things that are in the home that are off-gassing and it creates this chemical soup. So the average home that’s built today has anywhere from 10,000 to 15,000 chemicals in it just from the manufacturing of the home, the building of the home.

Formaldehyde is just one of those chemicals. It happens to be the one that’s probably the biggest problem causer, but there are so many other things that come off of the surface. And then you have somebody that walks in the home that has freshly dry cleaned clothes or maybe, God forbid, they smoked a cigarette on the way home. And that adds another 2500 chemicals. You can see where we get inundated with chemicals on a daily basis.

There is no perfect way to take care of this, I wish there was. I wish there was the perfect healthy home. I wish there was a perfectly healthy product. So what we try to do as a company, as a consultant is to help lower the exposure. We’re never going to get it, 100% folks, it’s just impossible. But we’re going to try to get it lower. We don’t strive for perfection, we strive for tolerance. Let’s get that overall load lower so maybe it’s not going to fill up that bucket at all in your lifetime. Or at least get to a point where we make the home tolerable.

People who have lived in that one room of their home covered in aluminum foil understand they’re not going to get perfection. They want perfection because they’ve lived with this horrible problem for years, but they also understand if I can just make it tolerable, I know that when I leave my home I’m going to get inundated with chemicals from other people. But when I come home at least I’m coming to a healthy sanctuary, and that’s what we strive for.

 

[02:27:09] Ashley James: I love it. Well, you are such a fantastic resource, and of course, I definitely recommend listeners checking out your podcast so they could continue learning from you. They could give you a call and hire you for a quick consult like a 15-minute or a longer consult if they’re looking at replacing flooring or replacing cabinetry, or if they’re just got some concerns about what’s in their house, or thinking about repainting that kind of stuff. We haven’t even scratched the surface. You have so many years of experience, and you, like me, love to dive in and learn. You have had experience with thousands upon thousands of clients. I’m sure there are areas we didn’t even get to talk about today, but we did cover some really well-rounded things and shed light on more of the common things that people need to know about when it comes to the environment of their home.

I like that we touched on cars because we spend a lot of time in our home and a lot of time in our cars. Obviously less time on our cars than our home, but sometimes cars can be a more toxic environment especially in the winter. We’re not cracking open the windows, we’re not breathing in the fresh air, and we can quickly build up the things that are off-gassing—all the flame retardants and stuff that are in our cars in the air. You may not experience any symptoms now, but it is filling your bucket and other family members or pets may be worse off than you and not know it. That’s maybe why some people in your home are more prone to aches and pains, are more prone to headaches, are more prone to being fatigued, or having sleep problems. Very common signs of just the body having to deal with more toxins.

To wrap things up, what are some actionable steps that people can take? Should we just open our windows even if it’s the wintertime? You’ve already mentioned getting an Austin air filter. They could actually buy it from you, which is great. Are there any others—I don’t want to say quick fixes, and you did mention getting some handheld device that they can test to make sure their appliances aren’t leaking gas? Is there something they could do today, some actual steps they can take today to start to turn things around in the environment of their home?

 

[02:29:39] Andy Pace: So a lot of that has to do with their living situation, whether they own or they rent. But the first thing I’ll say is if you are just noticing a general uncomfortableness when you’re in your house, you have flu-like symptoms. I know right now it’s a little difficult because as you say, we’re all spending a lot more time in our homes than ever before, and COVID is running rampant. I myself have had it, and it can give you all those same flu-like symptoms. But if generally speaking, when you come back home to your place of living, if you just don’t feel comfortable—there could be anxiety issues. These are all symptoms of some type of indoor air quality problem. Be it from chemical exposure, mold exposure, or even electromagnetic field exposure.

So I recommend getting your air quality tested. There are some pretty inexpensive systems on the market that allow you to test the indoor air quality of your home to at least give you an idea of what we’re dealing with. And then from that, again, carpet is an issue, area rugs can be an issue, but most important is to make your bedroom a healthy sanctuary. At least try to get those six to eight hours a night of really undisturbed healthy time to allow your body to heal. Make sure you’re using cleaning materials that aren’t adding to the chemical toxic soup in your house.

Probably the best thing I can say for people who are renting is, as a consumer, at least the things that you bring into your house try to make sure that you are doing your best to eliminate chemical off-gassing. Again, it’s very difficult as a renter because a lot of times you’re buying furniture from the big boxes to fill the space and a lot of times, that furniture is made with formaldehyde laden particle boards and plywoods. But if you can, if the budget allows, find better quality materials. It means usually getting products that are made with solid woods. The side benefit is it’s going to be a healthier piece of furniture.

So things like that. Just think about how the product might be made, and maybe, if that means holding off on buying something until you can afford something that is of higher quality, that’s going to help you in the long run.

 

[02:32:32] Ashley James: I love it. Everyone wants to save money, but when you look at buying furniture the cheaper, the material the quicker the furniture is going to break down, and then you have to replace it more often. My bed, for example, I did a lot of research and talked to a lot of health experts before we settled on the type of mattress we were going to buy. And I am so thankful we did because the mattress we bought, not only is it non-toxic and they really pride themselves on this. They’ll even give you 100% of the whole list of chemicals or building materials that have been used to make this bed, but it’s also designed to make the deepest, most healing restorative sleep.

If you’re sleeping on something for eight hours and your face is right against it, you could be breathing in God knows what, and there are so many mattresses that have flame retardants and all that kind of stuff that you could be breathing in. I’m so happy that my bed is one of those that don’t. Just like you said, you make healthy buildings, and this is a healthy bed. It’s an investment, it’s a more expensive mattress. It’s double the price of normal mattresses, but they also have a guarantee that it lasts for 20 years or more. They stand behind that. They’ll replace your mattress if there’s any warping or at all for 20 years. Normally, people will replace mattresses every five years because they warp.

The cheaper ones just don’t hold up and they cause health problems like back pain and then you have to go to the chiropractor. Some people just choose to get on medication for pain not realizing that they’re cheaper mattresses they saved money on one end, but it costs them on the other end. It’s better to invest in the furniture and the bed that is going to last for 20 years and also be the healthiest for you, and I like that that goes hand in hand. The quality of your health is often something that’s going to last longer.

Thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been so enlightening, and I know my listeners are going to love following you. Andy Pace, it’s been such a pleasure. Your website is thegreendesigncenter.com, and of course, the links to everything that Andy does is going to be the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. And you’ve got your podcast. Give us the plug again, what’s the name of your podcast?

 

[02:35:01] Andy Pace: Non Toxic Environments, three words. You’re going to find it on iTunes, of course, and all the major podcast providers.

 

[02:35:10] Ashley James: Fantastic. And Andy, I want you to come back anytime you have some new exciting information or if there’s a topic which we haven’t explored yet that you think worth teaching us on. Come back, I’d love to have you back.

 

[02:35:24] Andy Pace: I would absolutely love to. You can tell I love to talk, so that’s not a problem.

 

[02:35:28] Ashley James: You’re in good company. We love to listen to you.

Well, I hope you enjoyed today’s interview with Andy Pace. Wasn’t that amazing, so eye-opening, especially I just love that story about how BMW. They can sell formaldehyde-soaked vehicles to us here in the United States, but they can’t manufacture their own formaldehyde-soaked vehicles and then import them from America into Germany because Germany has higher standards. I mean doesn’t that just blow your mind? And that happens everywhere.

And that story about the EPA’s own building is so toxic that it has done permanent damage to 100+ employees these last 10 years. I mean, they must just be kicking themselves. The idea that they themselves rubber-stamped and approved all the chemicals that were used in the building process of their new building, and is something we have to deeply consider when purchasing anything for our environment, for our home. Just because you can’t smell it and you can’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not doing irreparable damage to our bodies, to our families, and to our pets.

I’m just so happy that we had Andy on today so that he could share with us this information. This kind of information will empower you. And no matter what your budget is, there is a way to make sure that future choices are healthier ones or non-toxic ones for us, and I’m so looking forward to my future choices being more educated ones because of all the work that Andy’s done and he provides for us.

Now, be sure to go to learntruehealth.com/bed, even if you’re not thinking about buying a mattress right now, it’s still really good information to have. And please share it with your friends and family who might be looking for a mattress, especially those who have been in pain who are experiencing inflammation, stiffness, and regularly having to go to the chiropractor because they’re constantly out. They’re like, how did my neck go out, how did my back go out? I was just sleeping. 

Well, they definitely have to see this webinar. Learntruehealth.com/bed, check it out. Let me know what you think. I am such a raving fan of this company because they have taken all the materials that are non-toxic to make an amazing bed, but then they created the science to make a bed be the healthiest for us in terms of the deepest, most restorative sleep possible. And of course, we go into discussing that and teaching more about that in the webinar. So go to learntruehealth.com/bed.

Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this episode and all the other episodes. And of course, you can go to learntruehealth.com and use the search function on the website to check out all of the rest of our great interviews. If you are curious about different topics, just type that topic into the search bar and you’ll find us. And if you’re on LBRY, be sure to check us out there as well. The links will be in the show notes of today’s podcast. That’s just another platform that you can find our podcast.

 

Get Connected with Andrew Pace!

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Dec 3, 2020

Fermenting Kit that Ashley recommends: https://amzn.to/3oz2XHJ
Specials:
Energybits - LearnTrueHealth.com/energybits - Use coupon code LTH
Medicinal Aloe - LearnTrueHealth.com/aloe - Use coupon code LTH2020
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Sandor's website https://www.wildfermentation.com

 

Food Fermentation: Process, Benefits, Foods to Try, Tips, and More! 

https://www.learntruehealth.com/food-fermentation

 

Highlights:

  • How fermented foods affect the immune system
  • Vinegar pickle vs. fermented pickle
  • Fermented foods and beverages are full of unique metabolic byproducts
  • Pre-digestion of fermented foods makes the nutrients more bioavailable
  • Can fermented foods be frozen?

 

Have you ever made your own fermented food or drink? In this episode, Sandor Ellix Katz, founder of wildfermentation.com, talks about what foods can be fermented and the basics of fermenting food. He explains the benefits of eating fermented foods. He also gives some tips on how to encourage kids to eat fermented food.

Intro:

Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. This episode today is about gut health and fun things that you can do in your kitchen right now to help you build a healthier, happier gut. Before we get to today’s episode, I got to tell you about three resources that have been life-changing, not only for me but for many of my listeners. We actually have specials on right now that this company is offering us.

The first one I want to talk about is Stockton Aloe. I had the founder on my show. He is a doctor who has a very unique company. It’s medicinal aloe, and it is the only company that delivers fresh aloe harvested the same day and totally unadulterated. It’s considered raw aloe, it is not processed at all other than they fillet it, and they remove the gel from the inside, excluding the outer layers of the aloe, the outer skins, which can cause irritability in the gut. Often, most aloe drinks on the market don’t exclude those, so most aloe drinks out there produce diarrhea, which is the exact opposite of what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to help heal the good. 

There are many studies that show that by consuming, drinking medicinal aloe that we speed up healing time, not only in our gut but also in other parts of the body. People notice that their skin is more radiant. They’re noticing their face is looking more beautiful and their skin is more toned. Obviously, their hair, their nails, and their digestion are better. Everything starts to get better.

I’ve personally given some aloe to a few friends who’ve had some serious medical conditions. I had a friend who was going through cyclical vomiting from a migraine that triggers vomiting, and she was just in absolutely dire straits. I gave her a jug of this and she said it was totally life-changing to drink it every day. I’ve had several friends that have had these similar issues like IBS or heartburn, and with all of them, I’ve noticed that by them drinking this aloe, they immediately see results. 

What’s really fun is that when our family had a bout of what might have been food poisoning, or it might have been some little gastrointestinal bug. I’m not sure what it was, but our whole family was sort of down and out for the count. Our little son, I got him to start drinking the aloe right away as we had the unfortunate experience of basically having all the symptoms of food poisoning. We all started drinking it, but what I noticed is that it immediately stopped the vomiting. It stopped indigestion, it stopped nausea. 

Our son, who I believe was four at the time, started really enjoying it. It doesn’t taste like candy so to have a kid actually like something that’s healthy for you is exciting. And then when one of his friends had a gut issue, my son said, “Hey, drink aloe. It’s really good for you.” To hear a little kid start giving health advice to his other kid friend, it was a very proud mom moment there. But what I’ve noticed is by drinking this, it makes a huge difference in gut health. 

And since today’s episode is all about gut health, I have to let you know you’ve got to also listen to that interview that I have. You can go to learntruehealth.com/aloe. That’s learntruehealth.com/aloe and use the coupon code LTH2020. That’s all of December we’re going to get a discount from them. He also gifts us his aloe cream as well which is really nice as a hand cream, especially if you’ve been washing your hands extra or using hand sanitizers extra, you might notice your skin is a bit irritable. I really do enjoy his hand cream. It doesn’t leave your hands feeling greasy, and it’s full of aloe so it’s very rich in moisture but not in grease. He includes that as well. 

And then what you do is it comes frozen, you keep it in the freezer. When you’re ready to drink it, it is absolutely fresh. Now, we do talk about it in the interview. I highly recommend going to learntruehealth.com and just searching aloe, checking out that interview, and listening to it because he does share a lot of science behind why drinking aloe is so good, not only for healing the gut but for other conditions as well. To buy it, go to learntruehealth.com/aloe. Use coupon code LTH2020.

The other company I really, really like is ENERGYbits. I’ve had Catharine Arnston, the founder of ENERGYbits on the show I believe at least seven times. She has amazing information that she shares about utilizing the healing power of algae specifically chlorella, and her chlorella is only one of a few handful of companies out there that guarantees no heavy metals and no lead. Most chlorellas, if you go to the health food store, go to whatever store and you buy some chlorella, there’ll be a little warning that says that it can cause cancer. Well, that’s because most companies, how they process their chlorella, add lead to it which is clearly not healthy. But her ENERGYbits does not have any heavy metals or lead, and she tests them both in the United States and where she grows the crop as well. She talks all about the quality of her ENERGYbits.

What I love about chlorella is it provides a plethora of vitamins and it does have minerals in it, but it also contains readily available amino acids, which are the building blocks of protein. So for someone who’s looking to heal the gut and get readily available nutrition from a food source, this is considered a superfood, then you would love ENERGYbits. Go to learntruehealth.com/energybits. That’s learntruehealth.com/energybits and use coupon code LTH to get the best discount.

I’ve really enjoyed them. I also interviewed several doctors actually who all talk about using chlorella to naturally and safely remove heavy metals from the body because it does something inside of us where it will chelate or bind to heavy metals. You can use chlorella as part of your very gentle detox, and in fact, it’s even safe for children. I’ve had Dr. Klinghardt talk about how he uses chlorella routinely with children, especially those children who have autism-like symptoms from heavy metal deposits in their neurology. That’s very exciting. You can absolutely type in chlorella into Learn True Health in the search engine at learntruehealth.com to listen to those interviews and learn more about chlorella. And to purchase it, go to learntruehealth.com/energybits. Again, use coupon code LTH.

The last company I want to tell you about is viome.com. I recently had both the founder and one of the chief science officers on the show—both amazing interviews. I’ve really enjoyed my results with Viome. It’s an at-home test where you give them a very small stool sample and blood sample and mail it to them. They test over 100,000 genetic pathways that are of your microbiome, of your gut bacteria, and of your mitochondria. And then from that, based on the chemicals that your microbiome produces from the food you eat, then they tell you what kind of diet you can eat to further enhance your health and what foods you should avoid based on the chemicals that your gut produces.

Basically, we have a six-pound pharmacy living in our gut known as our microbiome. What is healthy food to me might be actually toxic food to you based on the chemicals that your microbiome produces. They also give you superfood and supplement recommendations to optimize gut health, and it really, really works. I’ve been very impressed. So to learn more about that, you can type Viome into the search box at learntruehealth.com and listen to those interviews to get the test kit, which right now they have a great special on this month for Learn True Health listeners. Go to viome.com and use coupon code LTH. Check it out, I know you’re going to love it.

Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this information with those you care about. I want to see absolutely everyone listening to this show producing amazing gut health and going into the new year with really healthy, strong guts. Let’s all focus on feeling great and getting to a whole new level of health and vitality for 2021.

 

[00:09:22] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 452. I’m very excited for today’s guest. We have with us Sandor Ellix Katz, the founder of wildfermentation.com. I’m such a huge fan of live culture fermented foods, and the best way you can eat them is when you do it yourself. It’s actually really easy. I was so nervous about fermenting foods because I thought maybe I’d give myself food poisoning. It’s really hard to mess up once you learn the basics, and I’m so excited that we’re going to learn from Sandor today the health benefits of eating our own homemade fermented foods. Welcome to the show.

 

[00:10:10] Sandor Ellix Katz: Thanks so much for having me. Happy to be with you.

 

[00:10:13] Ashley James: Absolutely. Go back to your life. Tell us your life story about fermentation. What happened in your life that made you become incredibly passionate about spreading this information?

 

[00:10:24] Sandor Ellix Katz: Well, I would say that there were a few steps in the development of my interest in fermentation. The first was as a kid, I loved pickles. My grandparents were immigrants to the US from what’s now Belarus. In our kitchen or in our refrigerator, we always had eastern European style fermented cucumber pickles. I just loved that flavor. I didn’t know how they were made, I wasn’t thinking about fermentation, but I was very drawn to the lactic acid flavor of fermentation.

I spent a couple of years when I was in my mid-20s following a macrobiotic diet and macrobiotics places some emphasis on the digestive benefit of pickles and other kinds of live culture foods. I started noticing that these pickles that I had always loved to eat that whenever I would eat them I would feel the salivary glands under my tongue squirting out saliva. I began to associate these foods in a very concrete way with getting my digestive juices flowing. I started really eating them regularly as a health practice, but still, I wasn’t making them myself.

The catalyst to learn how to make them myself was that in 1993, I moved from my hometown of New York City to rural Tennessee, and I started gardening. I was such a naive city kid that it had never occurred to me that in a garden, all of the cabbage would be ready at about the same time, and all the radishes would be ready at about the same time. The first year I was gardening—when I was faced with this reality that in retrospect seems really obvious—I decided I’d better learn how to make sauerkraut. I knew I loved sauerkraut. I knew that sauerkraut had something to do with preserving cabbage.

I looked in the most basic American cookbook, The Joy of Cooking, and I found out I’ve had a recipe for sauerkraut. I saw how incredibly simple the process was. I shredded a couple of cabbages, salted them, added some caraway seeds, smashed them a little bit, and packed them into a crock. I just fell in love with the simplicity and ease of the process, and then I started playing around with different vegetables, sourdough, country wines, and yogurt making. Before I knew it, I just was down the rabbit hole of fermentation.

At first, it was just a personal obsession, and then I got a little bit of a reputation. I was teased by my friends for always showing up with sauerkraut, but I did get invited—after a few years—to teach a sauerkraut making workshop at a local event that was described as a food skill share event. I just loved teaching about it. I loved demystifying the process for people. I mean, you mentioned that you were a little bit scared the first time that you fermented vegetables. That’s a very common reaction, and for whatever reason, I never had that.

But as soon as I started teaching about fermentation, I came into contact with people projecting their anxiety about bacteria onto the process. It turned out, it was really fun and interesting to figure out how to demystify it for people and make people more comfortable with it. The initial teaching experiences led me to self-publishing a small pamphlet of my recipes, and then I decided to expand that into a larger book. What began as a book tour in 2003 just became a way of life as an itinerant fermentation educator.

At this point, I’d say I’ve probably taught a thousand workshops. I have a few different books. Wild Fermentation is the original book that I wrote. The Art of Fermentation is a bigger book that came out in 2012, and actually, I’ve just published another book that’s not so much about how to ferment things but it’s called Fermentation as Metaphor. It’s sort of addressing how we use the word fermentation in the English language also to describe really any kind of phenomenon that would be bubbly and get things agitated and mixed up. Anyway, I have lots of different interests in fermentation, and I love to share them with people.

 

[00:15:05] Ashley James: Now, it doesn’t sound like you had any major health issues. Did you notice anything shifting in your body as you continued to incorporate more and more fermented foods? Did anything change about your health?

 

[00:15:18] Sandor Ellix Katz: Well, I mean I definitely have had health issues. I’ve been living since 1991 with HIV, so I’m approaching my 30th anniversary of living with HIV. The thing is that these foods have always been part of my life. Even before I was thinking about them as a health practice, I was eating pickles all the time, I was eating yogurt all the time. I would say what I notice more is sometimes in my international travels, I find myself in places where I don’t have regular access to live fermented foods. I notice the absence of them. I notice how sluggish my digestive processes become when I’m not eating these foods, and so that really affirms for me how helpful they are in our ability to effectively digest food.

 

[00:16:16] Ashley James: You said 30 years you’ve been living with HIV?

 

[00:16:20] Sandor Ellix Katz: Yeah.

 

[00:16:21] Ashley James: In your 30-year quest to maintain complete optimal health, and I think that you are such a prime example of what we really want to focus on is no matter what we’re faced with, let’s give our body absolute optimal health instead of buying into the fear-mongering that having a diagnosis tends to give us, especially in the mainstream. You are living in incredible health, and you’re looking every day at what you can do to give yourself that vitality. Have you seen studies or looked further into how fermented foods affect the immune system?

 

[00:17:02] Sandor Ellix Katz: Well, sure. Let me also just clarify for you and your listeners. I mean, I’ve been taking HIV meds since 1999. For the last 21 years, I’ve been on antiretroviral medications. I wish I could say that my story was that eating fermented foods prevented HIV from ever progressing, but I experienced the period of getting very sick and the meds completely shifted the situation. 

But the one thing I would say is that almost everyone else who I’ve met who’s taken the HIV med cocktails has experienced digestive problems as a side effect of the medications, and I have never experienced that. That really affirms once again that it’s not always just a choice of one approach or another. You can be in a situation where you choose to do the medical recommendations, take the recommended medications, and still, your digestive processes are important. What you eat has a bearing on your well-being day-to-day.

Now, to answer your original question that you asked about immune function, sure, I mean there’s a lot of evidence that first of all, the bacteria of the gut are a huge part of what we call the immune system. That increasing biodiversity in the gut is a great way of improving overall immune function. In addition to the power of the probiotics and the bacteria themselves, fermented foods are nutritionally enhanced in a number of ways. Nutrients get broken down into simpler forms that are often more accessible to our bodies, so nutrients become more bioavailable. The bacteria that are fermenting the food produces various metabolic by-products, some of which have been found to have specific beneficial activity.

So for instance, fermented vegetables—which I think is the most basic, the easiest kind of ferment to make yourself at home—have these compounds called isothiocyanates, which were already of interest to cancer researchers because they’re regarded as anti-carcinogenic. Beyond ingesting the lactic acid bacteria themselves, which have this probiotic benefit, the metabolism of the organisms before you eat the kraut produces this byproduct, which is regarded to be anti-carcinogenic. The world of fermented foods and beverages is full of these unique metabolic byproducts, some of which have been found to have really powerful therapeutic potential.

 

[00:20:09] Ashley James: That’s so exciting. You mentioned that as part of the fermentation process, it’s almost like the plant becomes a little pre-digested for us making the nutrients inside the plant more accessible, for example, sauerkraut. Do you have any specific examples of what nutrients become more readily available to us through fermentation?

 

[00:20:31] Sandor Ellix Katz: Sure. The most dramatic examples of this are beyond the realm of fermenting vegetables because nutrients in vegetables tend to be fairly accessible to us but think about soybeans. The reason why nobody ever cooks and eats a bowl of soybeans for dinner is that all of that protein in the soybean—soybeans are regarded as the plant source food with the most concentrated protein, but our human bodies are not capable of extracting the protein from a soybean that has been simply cooked. That’s why people never sit down and eat a bowl of soybeans the way they might with lentils, chickpeas, or other kinds of beans. It’s just so dense that our bodies can’t access the protein. 

The indigestibility of soybeans was recognized by the Asian cultures that pioneered soy agriculture thousands of years ago. They developed various ways of making it more digestible, and fermentation is the most straightforward way of making the protein of the soybean more accessible.

There are all these different methods that people use to ferment soybeans. There’s soy sauce, there’s miso, there’s tempeh, there’s natto, there are many, many other variations of fermented soybeans. They have different flavors, different methods, different organisms, different amounts of time, different environmental conditions they require, but what they all have in common is that that protein gets broken down into amino acids—the building blocks of proteins, and so they become more bioavailable to us and the soybean becomes more nutritious.

In grains and certain beans, the minerals get tied up in these chemical bonds that are called phytate bonds that our bodies can’t break down. But a long enough bacterial fermentation will break it down and so the minerals become more bioavailable. There have been all these interesting studies where—okay, I’m going to use the example of this south Indian fermented crepes called dosas that are made of a batter of lentils and rice. But if you just cook lentils and rice and send it to a lab for analysis and then you ferment it into this batter, make dosas, and send the dosas to the same lab made from the same lentils and the same rice, what you find is that the fermented food—based on the same ingredient—has much higher measurable levels of calcium, iron, and other dietary minerals. This is another example of the pre-digestion of fermentation making the nutrients in food more bioavailable.

 

[00:23:28] Ashley James: That is so fascinating. Do you ferment your own beans and lentils?

 

[00:23:33] Sandor Ellix Katz: Yeah, sure. I dabble in all the ferments. I mean, it’s not like I ferment everything all the time. But I actually did a workshop just the other afternoon demonstrating via Zoom how to make dosas. I have a jar of dosa batter sitting in the fridge. Every other day or so, I’ve been making some dosas and enjoying them. But I definitely ferment beans. I make miso, I make tempeh, I make natto. I do lots of fermenting.

 

[00:24:09] Ashley James: That sounds really cool. That sounds kind of advanced.

 

[00:24:13] Sandor Ellix Katz: One thing I’d just like to say generally is there is nothing that we can eat that cannot be fermented. If we can eat it, it can be fermented. It doesn’t mean everything has equally prominent traditions of fermentation. I mean, some foods have much more elaborate traditions of fermentation than others, but anything we could possibly eat can be fermented.

 

[00:24:40] Ashley James: That’s interesting because my friend has a really beautiful garden and he was disappointed to find out that kale shouldn’t be fermented. Because he had a lot of kale, there isn’t a good way to ferment it that makes it taste good. Do you disagree? Is there a way to ferment kale or preserve it that makes it taste good?

 

[00:24:58] Sandor Ellix Katz: Well, kale and any dark green vegetable with a lot of chlorophyll have a strong taste when it is fermented. Personally, I find the flavor of pure kale fermented to be kind of strong. I love kale as a minor ingredient if it was like 90% cabbages and radishes and 10% kale, I think it’s a lovely accent flavor. But I have met more than one person who’s told me that their favorite vegetable to ferment is kale.

So I have really learned not to assume anything about people’s taste or that everybody’s taste is going to be the same. You can ferment kale but you might or might not like the way it tastes. I encourage people to experiment and not be fearful to experiment but to experiment in small batches so if they try something and they don’t like it, they’re not discarding a lot of food. I mean, another question people always ask about is zucchini because so many people with gardens have a moment in the summer when there’s more zucchini than they know what to do with.

Yes, you can definitely ferment zucchini, but in hot weather, watery vegetables tend to get very soft and mushy during fermentation. The fermentation won’t really preserve the texture of the vegetables for very long unless you have a very cool root cellar to store it in so it might end up being soft and mushy. Yes, you can ferment zucchini, but if you’re planning to ferment lots of it for months, you’re going to end up with something that at least I would find very unappealing by virtue of texture rather than flavor.

 

[00:26:41] Ashley James: Now, I’d love you to dispel some myths. People often will go by pickles. They’re stored on the shelf, they’re made with vinegar. That’s not a fermented food, is it? That’s not a good probiotic. We want to look for the thing that says live culture, that has been made with lactic acid. Can you clear up some things about this?

 

[00:27:01] Sandor Ellix Katz: Yeah, sure. Okay, let me say two things. First of all, you can find sauerkraut in the store in a can. That was made by fermentation just the way if you want to make sauerkraut at home you would make it, but then it’s heat processed so it can be in a can on a shelf without refrigeration indefinitely. Heat processing kills the bacteria. 

Now the word pickle covers a lot of ground. A pickle is anything preserved in an acidic medium. The old world mate way of making pickles in most places is you put the cucumbers or whatever the vegetables you’re using might be or the fruit in a brine solution, a saltwater solution. Then you add some seasonings if you like, but the acid that develops is lactic acid from bacteria on the vegetables breaking down carbohydrates in the vegetable and acidifying the environment of the brine.

What supermarket shelves are full of are the 20th-century pickles. When the process was developed around the middle of the 20th century, what we now know as distilled white vinegar—the vinegar that’s cheaper than water at the supermarket—ushered in a period of vinegar pickles. Vinegar pickles have been traditional, especially in wine-making regions of the world. But in most places in the world, the traditional pickles have been brined pickles and the acid is lactic acid, which is a different flavor than acetic acid which is what vinegar is. But if you make a vinegar solution and pour it over vegetables those are also a pickle. But generally, it’s a hot vinegar solution and it’s a strong enough vinegar solution that the heat and the high acidity will kill the bacteria of the vegetables.

Yes, if you want to have live culture pickles, you’re basically going to either be buying them fresh out of an open vessel—the old world way, or if you find it in a health food store or something like that, it is likely to be in a refrigerator. Because if it’s still alive, then you need the low temperatures to prevent a buildup of carbon dioxide in the jar which could make it leak or potentially explode.

 

[00:29:29] Ashley James: Now, when you have this bountiful harvest of cabbages in your garden and you go to make all this sauerkraut. You fermented it, it ferments for an average of six days. I hear some people do it up to two weeks, but then when you’re done, when you like the flavor, you finish fermenting, I’ve always been told that we put a mason jar lid on it and put it in the fridge. That kind of slows down the fermenting. How do you then make it shelf-stable, or do you need to store it in a fridge or in a cold cellar at that point?

 

[00:30:05] Sandor Ellix Katz: A cold cellar or you’re in a place that’s just where it just gets cold enough. I mean, I’ve seen people store sauerkraut outside if it gets extremely cold—that becomes problematic, but a cellar would be the traditional way to do it. In Korea, the tradition was you store the winter’s kimchi, you bury your ceramic crock in the yard so that you have the temperature modulation of the earth to prevent it from getting too cold and to prevent it from getting too warm. If you let it sit in your heated home, what happens is that it’s not that it would become toxic. I mean, you can ferment things for a very, very long time.

I’m down to the last pint of what was originally 200 liters—about 55 gallons—of radish kraut from last November. I’ve just made this year’s batch, but I’m eating up the very end of last year’s batch. Now it was just in my cellar from November until June, and then it’s been in the refrigerator since June. But if I let it get hot in the summer temperatures, what happens is that these enzymes that are part of all vegetables will break down the pectins and make it get really soft and mushy like I talked about a few minutes ago with the zucchini ferments.

That’s the main reason why you have to keep things cool. I mean, one week two to a few weeks, that’s a very contemporary interpretation of how you do these foods. In temperate regions, people would ferment it for months, and they wouldn’t wait months before they start eating it, but they would let it just keep fermenting through the entire winter because there was no refrigerator to put it into. 

But then people would always try to finish it up before it gets hot because that’s when the texture will be destroyed. And then also, just in terms of the real practical necessity of it, by the time summer comes there are lots of fresh vegetables to eat. This historically has been primarily something that was about preservation, about getting vegetables and vegetable nutrients through a long winter where there was no or very little fresh vegetable food.

 

[00:32:37] Ashley James: I interviewed a Ph.D. in Anthropology who figured out—his whole thing is he goes back to humans a hundred thousand years ago. They find all the tools that they could possibly find fossilized. They try to figure out how we ate that long ago, how our ancestors ate. What he sees is that there’s so much evidence for fermenting. That we figured out how to ferment even back then to secure the nutrients out of foods. He says look at a duck, ducks have two stomachs—one grinds the grain, and the other ferments it and that’s how you access it. 

For example, corn, we don’t access nutrients from corn very easily unless we put it through a process where we can grind it, ferment it, and fermentation allows those nutrients to become available to us. We figured that out a long time ago, which is really neat cause I feel like, in the last 100 years, we all have amnesia from our ancestral roots. We need to come back to how we have been eating for thousands of years, and fermenting is such a large part of that.

 

[00:33:51] Sandor Ellix Katz: Yeah, sure. I mean, fermentation is ancient. The current archaeological record suggests that people were fermenting at least 10,000 years ago, but personally, that tells us mostly about the history of pottery because the earlier vessels—before people figured out pottery to have vessels to ferment liquids in—were all biodegradable things. They were either animal membranes, hollowed-out trunks of trees, or gourds. But at some point, people realized that they could stabilize clay and get the clay to hold liquids. Those are the shards that we find.

Berries spontaneously ferment into alcohol without human assistance, and there’s a lot of interesting documentation of different insects, birds, mammals, and other animals being drawn to the smell of fermenting fruit. You can watch YouTube videos of elephants gorging themselves on fermenting durian fruits in Malaysia, then getting disoriented, falling over, and basically getting drunk. I think it’s safe to assume that our evolutionary forebears like primates—contemporary primates are definitely drawn to the smell of fermenting fruit. I think it’s safe to assume that our ancestors were drawn to this, and we did evolve with enzymes to enable us to digest alcohol. I mean, fermentation has been part of the landscape. 

Really, if we want to talk about the deep evolutionary past, the earliest organisms were all bacteria, archaea, and all these anaerobic organisms that were fermenting. One of their byproducts was oxygen, and that the buildup of oxygen in the atmosphere has something to do with these fermenting organisms that are ancient. All the multicellular organisms that descended from the original single-cell life forms all live with associated bacteria. All the forms of life that the original bacteria and archaea evolved into—all the plants, all the fungi, all the animals—have microbiomes. They have associated populations of bacteria that enable them to effectively function. We’re not alone in this regard.

Fermentation is very, very, very ancient, and certainly, in the context of human cultures, it’s just been an integral part of how people in every part of the world figured out how to make effective use of whatever food resources were available to them.

 

[00:37:11] Ashley James: Absolutely. I want you to teach us. Pretend that everyone who is listening hasn’t fermented something. What’s your favorite beginner recipe so we can all go out and just start fermenting something today?

 

[00:37:26] Sandor Ellix Katz: What I almost always recommend for people as a first fermentation project is fermenting vegetables, for a few reasons. I mean, first of all, it’s really, really simple and straightforward. It’s just incredibly powerful and supportive of good health. And then to the degree that people might be projecting some anxiety onto the process. While all fermentation processes are safe and foods that are fermented are safer than the same food before they are fermented. But in the case of fermenting vegetables, there are no documented cases anywhere in the world of food poisoning or illness. This food is as safe as it gets.

We hear every year about people getting sick from raw vegetables. A couple of months ago, it was red onions. It was lettuce one year, it was spinach one year, it was cabbage one year. Clearly, there’s the possibility that vegetables can be exposed to pathogenic bacteria and make people sick, but if you took those vegetables—even if they’d been exposed to some potential pathogen and then you shred it, salt it, get it juicy, and pack it into a vessel to ferment, the indigenous bacteria will always dominate over incidental pathogens. The lactic acid bacteria that are always on the vegetables—in fact, always present on all plants growing out of the soil on planet earth—will dominate. And then as they acidify the environment, if there were some cells of salmonella, E. coli, or other things that we associate with food poisoning, what they all have in common is that they cannot tolerate an acidic environment. As that environment acidifies, they get destroyed.

Fermenting vegetables is the place to start. Generally, what I would say is pick your vessel. I would suggest the easiest thing would be a wide mouth jar. I like to use wide-mouth quart-size canning jars, but you could also just use a jar leftover from mayonnaise or something. Then you need to get some vegetables. You really could work with any kind of vegetables. I mean, any kind of cabbage, any kind of radish is foolproof. But you can also experiment with other kinds of vegetables. I like to mix a few vegetables together. Carrots are beautiful, turnips. 

But for a quart jar, it takes about two pounds of vegetables and then adjust accordingly. If it’s a gallon jar, you probably need about eight pounds of vegetables. If you’re working with a pint jar, you might just need one pound of vegetables. Then shred it. It doesn’t matter how finely. You can do it super fine, you can do it in coarse pieces, they don’t all have to be even. It doesn’t matter, but you’re just trying to create some surface area. And then you salt it. It doesn’t matter how much salt. I mean, it matters in terms of how it tastes and I would say because people have such varied tastes for salt, salt it lightly, mix it all up, taste it, just evaluate it, and add more salt if you want. This is not rocket science. It does not rely upon some precise proportion of salt.

There are some places where the tradition is to ferment vegetables without any salt at all. There was even a commercial business in the US that was doing that for decades. The kraut wasn’t very good. I mean, I didn’t like it. I mean, the salt really balances out the flavor. The salt helps maintain a nice crispy, crunchy texture to it, but you don’t have to make it extremely salty. 

If you’re from a Russian or German family where your grandparents were making sauerkraut, their grandparents were making sauerkraut, chances are the family recipe is extremely salty because going back just a few generations, this was an important survival food. But if your context is not so much making it to survive through a long harsh winter but rather making something that’s delicious, that’s going to support your good health, there’s no reason to make it super salty. You can just make small batches every few weeks. They don’t have to be preserved for long periods of time. They don’t need that much salt. I just salt to taste.

I use sea salts. A lot of the literature says to stay away from iodized table salt. I’ve done so many demos where the organizers handed me iodized table salt. I can tell you with confidence, it works even with iodized table salt. Don’t get too precious about thinking you need a certain kind of salt. Vegetables, salt, and season it as you like. You could put a little bit of garlic, ginger, or both, some chili peppers, some caraway, or nothing. Just have it be simple salted vegetables. But you can season it in any way you like. Sometimes people add a little bit of fruit. In the Korean tradition, often, there’s a fishy element—either little dried shrimp or a little fish sauce to add complexity to the flavor. You can do any of that, you cannot do any of that.

The most basic is shred vegetables, salt them, mix them around. What I like to do is spend a couple of minutes squeezing the vegetables with my hands when I’m doing it on a small scale. What this does is it basically breaks down cell walls and helps release juice from the vegetables more quickly. On a larger scale, people might use some big heavy tamping tool, or the story I hear over and over again—usually from people older than me who grew up in Eastern Europe—is people remember having their feet scrubbed as children and being put inside of a barrel to jump up and down on the vegetables that their parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles are shredding.

However, you do it, breaking down the cell walls a little bit just helps the vegetables give up their juice so you can get the vegetable submerged, which is the most important environmental factor—getting the vegetables submerged. Usually, I use some sort of little weight at the top. I’ve got these little glass discs that I sometimes use if I’m using a jar. If you don’t have anything like that, you can improvise. What I sometimes do is I save an outer leaf from the cabbage with a heavy spine and use that spine like a little spring to hold the vegetables down. Or sometimes, I’ll take the end of an onion or a fat carrot or something and let that be a top piece to hold things down. Sometimes people fill a little sandwich-sized bag with a little bit of water and let that hold everything down.

On a larger scale, if I’m working with a crock, I’ll put a plate that fits inside the crock that can sit on the surface of the vegetables and then a little jar filled with water holding that down. There are different ways to do it, but you want as best you can keep the vegetables submerged because the bacteria don’t need oxygen. Lactic acid bacteria are anaerobic. The place where it meets the air with the oxygen, that’s where all the funky stuff happens, and it’s not unusual. Don’t be freaked out if you get a film developing on the top of your vegetables. 

There’s a yeast called kahm yeast that sometimes grows. Sometimes these hairy molds that are totally harmless grow. I just skim them off as best I can and discard them, but know that that’s a possible scenario. The warmer your environment is, the faster that’ll happen. The less salt you use, the faster that’ll happen. But that’s it. 

Then leave it for at least three or four days and then start tasting it. Everybody’s taste is different. Some people love it the sourer it gets. The acidity accumulates over time. So to get very sour sauerkraut takes some time. The temperature will have bearing on that. The metabolism of these organisms is faster when it’s warmer, slower when it’s cooler. If you’re doing it in a place where it’s very warm, you’ll get a certain level of acidity faster than you will in a cooler environment.

In general, if you have a choice, a longer slower fermentation will generally yield superior flavors to a faster shorter fermentation. Taste it periodically, evaluate the flavor, and harvest it when it tastes right to you. But I’ve had people tell me that two-day-old sauerkraut was the best kraut they ever had in their life. I had someone tell me that two-month-old sauerkraut was very good for coleslaw. 

People are all over the place with the flavor they like, and so rather than thinking that you need to conform to some idea of how sour sauerkraut is, just taste it periodically and monitor the evolving flavor. When you feel like you don’t want it to get any stronger—I should say, if you ever feel that you don’t want to get any stronger, move it to the fridge. I often have batches that never make it to the fridge.

 

[00:47:03] Ashley James: Because you just start eating them, they’re so delicious, and you start sharing them with your friends?

 

[00:47:07] Sandor Ellix Katz: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it never gets to the point where I have a reason to slow it down. Sometimes I just finish it before I move it to the fermentation slowing device.

 

[00:47:18] Ashley James: I got to share my two favorite recipes—super simple. Get fresh ginger—not frozen. Just rinse it lightly, put it in the food processor in the thinnest possible setting. Some food processors let you adjust the thinness of the cut. Then I just take just a spoonful of salt and I massage the ginger, like you mentioned, until there’s some juice, until it gives up its juice. And then I cram it into a mason jar, pack it in tight. Of course, the salt is now melted. The juice of the ginger has become a brine, and then I push it down with a fermenting stone like a glass disc you mentioned. Put a lid on it loosely and then put it in a warm dark place for a few days.

For me, the temperature of my house, six days seems appropriate. Oh my gosh, it is the most delicious thing. You just take a pinch of it and add it to every meal. It is so freaking delicious. It’s still raw ginger, right? It’s very spicy. It’s very hot, but the heat is so warming to the digestion. It’s amazing.

And then my second favorite one, there’s a little bit more work. I saw my friend make a fermented pico de gallo salsa on Facebook and I thought, oh my gosh, I never even thought that you could ferment a pico. I chopped up tomato, onion, and then pineapple—some fresh pineapple, not canned—and then a little bit of jalapeño. Mixed in some salt, don’t add any water. Put it in the jar, packed it down again. The tomato really gives up a lot of liquid, and then I fermented it for three days in a warm dark place. Then I add lime and cilantro, mix it together, and put it in the fridge. It was the most—I made two giant jars of it. I took them to all my friends’ homes that few weeks sharing it. I can’t tell you. It’s so much fun when you get into this because the fermenting changes the flavor and you’re making this new thing, and then you can add it to dishes. It’s very exciting.

 

[00:49:41] Sandor Ellix Katz: Yeah. Your two examples really illustrate perfectly the versatility of this process because both of those really follow the process that I just described generically that you could do with any kind of a vegetable. When you use tomatoes, they’re sugary, so the fermentation goes much faster. It would be hard to do tomatoes for six weeks. I mean, it wouldn’t be hard. You’d lose all of the sweetness, and it would get extremely sour. Like you, I love a short fermentation of anything tomatoey.

 

[00:50:19] Ashley James: Now, for parents that want to encourage their children to try this, it’s great to get children in the kitchen doing it with them. I hear that fermenting green beans is a good place to start to get kids excited about this. Do you have any suggestions for parents on what they could start fermenting with their kids to get them excited? My son hates sauerkraut but loves pickles, for example.

 

[00:50:40] Sandor Ellix Katz: I’ve seen so many kids who just go gaga for fermented vegetables. I think one key is introducing it young. I mean, if you wait until your kid is eight years old and then you put this food in front of them, they’re probably going to reject it. But if they’ve been around it since they were two, then it’s just normal and they’re always going to love it. 

The other thing I would say is to always get kids tactile. Get their hands in it, whatever it is you’re fermenting. You’re fermenting ginger, you’re fermenting salsa, you’re fermenting cabbage, you’re fermenting radishes, you’re fermenting string beans—whatever it is, let the kids get their hands in it. Once their hands are in it, then they’re going to be impatient. They’re going to be when is that ready, when can we try it? I think getting tactile is really great, but I love to ferment green beans. I always make a little bit of dill and garlic in brine and make basically dilly beans, so delicious. 

In my experience, a lot of kids love pickles, love sauerkraut but I think a real key is trying to introduce the food early. If you want to introduce your kid and they’re already a big kid, then I would say that getting their hands in it might be one strategy to get them more interested in it. Using it as a condiment on something they really like already might be another way to get them to think about it.

I’ve heard great stories from parents who have kids who have rejected the idea of fermented vegetables and their strategies for getting their kids to eat them. I remember talking to this one woman who would take the kraut juice, mix it with fruit juice, and freeze it into little popsicles that she would give to her kid.

 

[00:52:40] Ashley James: Freezing process, do the bacteria survive the freezing process? Can you freeze sauerkraut?

 

[00:52:46] Sandor Ellix Katz: Okay, it turns out that the issue with freezing bacteria has to do with the water content. When you freeze water into ice, it expands. If your ferment is watery, then you’re going to have some cells bursting, but they don’t all burst at once. Every freeze and thaw cycle, you’ll end up with diminished potency. Bakers often back up their sourdough starters in the freezer, and the typical process would be to thicken it up into a solid-state. You add more flour so it’s a thicker thing and there’s a lower water content so less expansion, so less diminished cell viability.

 

[00:53:44] Ashley James: Very cool. It has been such a pleasure having you on the show. Your website is wildfermentation.com, and you’ve shared that you have Zoom calls. People can learn from you and watch you. People can buy your books. Is there anything else that you want people to know about your website?

 

[00:54:04] Sandor Ellix Katz: Yeah, sure. I teach lots of workshops, and I list them all on my website. I also have a page of media links where you can listen to previous presentations, interviews, articles, and such. I also have a section of links just of fermentation related resources, and it turns out, there’s just a vast array of resources for people interested in fermentation out on the world wide web. Definitely check out my website wildfermentation.com. My books are just full of practical how-to ferment different things at home. Fermenting vegetables is a great beginning but it doesn’t have to be the ending. There’s just such incredible diversity in fermentation traditions around the world, and I’m so glad to have this time to share a little bit about it with you and your listeners.

 

[00:54:57] Ashley James: Absolutely. It’s been such a pleasure, Sandor, having you on the show. Please feel free to come back anytime you want to teach us more about the benefits of fermenting and share more recipes with us.

 

[00:55:07] Sandor Ellix Katz: Great. Have a great day.

 

[00:55:09] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s interview all about how you can utilize your kitchen to make some powerful and delicious fermented foods. Start experimenting. Now is the time to go out and just experiment and make something that sounds delicious. Try something new. It’s so much fun once you start getting into fermenting. I’ll make sure that I put a link in the show notes of my favorite fermenting lid that you can get for wide mouth mason jars. It’s so easy. 

I tried all these different kits, and honestly, so many of them are just flimsy, they break, they leak, they’re plastic, and then they’re kind of complicated. And then there’s this one that’s so simple. It has a spring and it has a lid that has a little valve and that’s it. It’s very affordable, and I will make sure I put the link to it in the show notes of today’s podcast at learntruehealth.com. Just go to the notes, wherever you’re listening. If you’re listening to this on iTunes, you can just go into the notes in the details of this episode and you’ll see those links. Or you can go to learntruehealth.com once we publish it there with the full transcript and you’ll see the links there. I’ll make sure I include the links to my favorite canning stuff.

Now, if you listen to the intro of this interview, I did talk about three companies that are fantastic resources for you. Viome.com, use coupon code LTH. They have a great sale for the month of December for Learn True Health listeners. You have to use the coupon code LTH to get an even deeper discount. This is a fantastic at-home test kit that you do the test at home, then you send it off to them, and they give you results. You can’t get this information anywhere else. It’s absolutely amazing, but it’s information that will guide you in a totally new way and help you make better choices that will speed up your healing. Not only for your gut but also for mental and emotional health. Most of our serotonin is made in the gut. We could be eating foods that are seemingly healthy but actually lowering your serotonin leading to—sometimes for people—anxiety, depression, lack of motivation. Things that don’t look like they have anything to do with the gut can be absolutely related to the gut.

As I shared in one of my interviews with Viome, we talked about my results actually in a recent interview. We talked about how certain foods I had been eating were causing heart health issues. These are foods that are healthy for other people, but because my microbiome converted them into unhealthy chemicals for me, that it was causing issues in other organs. This is what’s happening to all of us. The test results you get from Viome can be totally life-changing for you. So go to viome.com, use the coupon code LTH right now, and get their test kit.

Also, I really like their supplements. Their supplements are not a replacement for a multivitamin or a multi-mineral. Their supplements are specifically designed based on your results from your test kit, and they’re designed to support your microbiome to be the healthiest it can be. I started taking them and I noticed right away a shift. I thought that was really cool because I’ve never taken a pre- or probiotic in my life that I immediately noticed great results with, and with theirs I did. Theirs is genetically specifically designed for my microbiome, no wonder I saw results. It was very cool to see that.

And then, of course, you can go to learntruehealth.com and search Viome to listen to my two interviews with the founder, with the science officer, so that you can learn more about the science and hear more about Viome. And to get it, go to viome.com, use coupon code LTH, and check that out.

I talked about aloe and how much drinking medicinal aloe can help specifically for speeding up gut healing. You can search aloe when you go to learntruehealth.com and listen to my interview about it. To purchase it and get the discount that’s being given to us for the month of December, go to learntruehealth.com/aloe and then use coupon code LTH2020. He’s including a great discount for us, and on top of that, giving us also his aloe cream which is quite nice as a hand cream. I really do enjoy it.

And then last, ENERGYbits, which I’ve had Catharine Arnston on the show several times. Go type in algae or chlorella into the search bar of learntruehealth.com and listen to those interviews with Catharine Arnston. She shares a lot of science, a lot of stories, and a lot of very interesting information that was new to me, and I’m a health nut, this is my life. I love learning about this stuff. If you kind of consider yourself a little bit of a holistic health nut just like me, then you will absolutely geek out on listening to those interviews with Catharine Arnston. 

To get her discount that she’s giving us right now, you can go to learntruehealth.com/energybits. That’s all one-word learntruehealth.com/energybits and use the coupon code LTH

Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing these episodes with those you care about. Almost every day, I hear from you guys either on Facebook or in email, and I hear that you have learned about this from friends, from family. It’s so great that this is a grassroots movement to helping those we care about to gain access to holistic health information that’s not readily available, it’s not being talked about in the mainstream of course so we have to go to the source. We have to listen to awesome interviews from these holistic health experts that want to get this information out there. 

Please continue to listen, continue to explore, continue to go to learntruehealth.com, and utilize my website as a resource for you. And also, if you’re on Facebook, come join the free Facebook group. We have over 4000 members, and it’s such a wonderful active supportive community where everyone every day—I wake up every morning and one of the first things I do is log in and look at everyone’s questions. I help answer them as best I can throughout the day. So many other amazing health coaches, doctors, nurses, tons of holistic health experts, and just people like you and me who are also just like health nuts love to share, answer questions, give advice, give support, and give encouragement. It’s a great community to be a part of. 

Just search Learn True Health on Facebook. Come join the group. We’d love for you to be part of our community. And if you have any questions for me, please feel free to reach out. You can email me at ashley@learntruehealth.com. You can also reach out in the Facebook group

Thank you so much. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day. Enjoy the holiday season. All the interviews I’ve ever done about mental health include gratitude. No matter how bad it is right now or how good it is, make sure that you take time even 30 seconds to focus on what you’re grateful for. Focus on what you do have in your life that you absolutely are so thankful for. Just that 30 seconds of gratitude shifts your body out of stress response and into a healing mode. 

The more you do it, the more often you do it, especially if you can incorporate breathing, especially if you can incorporate, moving your body in a way—that brings you joy, getting outside into sunlight—this helps the body shift out of stress mode and into healing mode. Let’s focus on right now, what are you grateful for today? Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day filled with gratitude.

 

Get Connected With Sandor Ellix Katz!

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Books by Sandor Elliz Katz

Wild Fermentation

The Art of Fermentation

Basic Fermentation: A Do-It-Yourself Guide to Cultural Manipulation

Fermentation as Metaphor

Nov 16, 2020

Use listener coupon code LTH at viome.com for the gut and mitochondrial testing and food & supplement recommendations.

 

Viome Gut Microbiome Testing’s Results Interpretation and Food and Supplement Recommendations

https://www.learntruehealth.com/viome-gut-microbiome

 

Highlights:

  • No one good food is always good for everybody
  • What does metabolites do for the body
  • What does microbiome-induced stress mean
  • How does Viome help improve our health
  • What is the difference of Viome’s supplements

 

Are all foods, especially fruits and vegetables, beneficial for all people? In an ideal world, all fruits and vegetables would be good for everyone. But that is not the case. In this episode, Ally Perlina shares with us the revolutionary tests that Viome has created. She explains how they came about their food and supplement recommendations and how to interpret their test results. She also shares how their supplements are different from others.

 

Intro:

Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. It’s been a few weeks since I did this interview, so I do have more updates for you. I discuss in this interview the results of the Viome test. You may remember a while back, I interviewed the founder of Viome. Viome is a company where they send you an at-home test kit. It’s very easy to use, and you give them a tiny sample of your blood and your stool. And then soon you’ll also be able to give them your saliva. They run hundreds of thousands of genetic expression pathways on the bacteria of your gut and your mitochondria.

What that provides is allows them to see what your bacteria do in terms of what chemicals it makes once you eat. So when you eat something, the bacteria turn it into chemicals. Some of these chemicals are incredibly harmful and cause disease, and we don’t even realize it. Someone could be eating a carrot and that’s causing them to have health problems because their microbiome is transforming something seemingly helpful into a negative chemical for them specifically.

For me, it was actually very interesting. My results were incredibly interesting. I have implemented their advice, and I also started taking their supplements. Right away, which really shocked me, I noticed a change in my gut. I have good gut health, but I noticed this entirely new level of gut health. I’m like holy crow, that was amazing. I’m really very intrigued by the results. I think that if you have the means to do so, everyone should do a Viome test kit. It gives you the information you could not possibly ever get from going to any doctor. It’s absolutely state of the art. Today I have on the scientist, the mastermind behind it all, so she’s going to explain.

This is why it is a longer interview because she does go through my own results and then explains. I try to have her explain it from the perspective of other people as well and how this would also pertain to reversing disease, preventing disease, increasing longevity, reversing age. You can actually reverse cellular age, which is phenomenal and quite exciting. So all this information is shared today, and I want to let you know that Viome does give us a great discount, both on their home test kits and their supplements. Go to viome.com and use the coupon code LTH as in Learn True Health. So always use the coupon code LTH every time you buy from them and you’ll get the discount.

I want to let you know that very soon, and for a very limited time during the American Thanksgiving Cyber Sale that’s coming up really soon, they’re going to be giving us an even bigger deal. So I highly recommend marking that in your calendar and checking it out.

You can also join the Learn True Health Facebook group because there are about six other wonderful health companies that have offered the Learn True Health listeners incredible deals for the cyber sales that are coming up during Thanksgiving. I’ll be releasing all that information into the Facebook group, and also email it out for anyone that’s on the email list. You can get on the email list by going to learntruehealth.com, checking that out. Thank you so much for sharing this with your friends and family. Continue to share these episodes. They are life-changing. I’m really looking forward to hearing about today’s episode. It’s going to be a great one.

 

[00:03:30] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 451. I am so excited for today’s guest. We have a very special woman on the show today. Ally Perlina, you and I have spent the last few hours talking about my results from my Viome test. Back in episode 441, we had one of the founders of Viome on the show—Naveen, and that was quite an eye-opener. I am really in love with Viome.

Now I’ve come to know that you’re this mastermind—I don’t want to say mad scientist, but you’re the mad scientist behind it all. You have such an amazing understanding of the expressions of our microbes. When we feed them certain foods, they produce certain metabolites, and how those metabolites affect the rest of our body and potentially create disease or heal the body. We could really use food as medicine on a deeper more individualistic level when we understand our unique microbiome and also understand our cells on a deeper level, which is what your company allows us to do—much more affordably than I ever thought.

I’m really excited to have you here today to teach us more about how we can understand—on a cellular level—how to gain health. How to really, really gain health, how to really support our immune system, how to support all of our hormonal systems, how to support our body’s ability to metabolize and to utilize nutrition all by making sure that we focus on what we can feed and what we shouldn’t feed our unique microbiome. Ally, welcome to the show.

 

[00:05:39] Ally Perlina: Thank you so much, Ashley. I’m so privileged to be doing this with you. I really enjoyed our conversations so far. I think it’s amazing how aware you are of all of the things that are important to look out for and pay attention to when it comes to your health. How curious you are about learning all of the different new technologies and ways of gaining insights about the biology of your body, which is what we’re here to do. I think it is really important to get this understanding and to spread this word, which is what you’re doing here. I’m more than happy to really delve into the results and the data and explain all of this because it’s not always just about talking about the concepts. Because I think to make it relevant, you have to put it in the context of the actual person’s results.

So here we are with your results, and I’m absolutely thrilled to be able to review it with you and your listeners.

 

[00:06:37] Ashley James: Awesome, very cool. Well, before we dive into that though, I want to learn a bit more about you and your background. What happened in your life that led you to become an expert in the science of the microbiome?

 

[00:06:52] Ally Perlina: What happened to me to make me such a mad scientist? What had to happen in my life? I will speak to that. I actually identify myself in a way as a systems biologist. That involves not only understanding the microbiome but really getting into the complexities and the mechanisms that turn all the knobs and all the different levels of our biological systems. From cells, even microbes are cells in a way. Some are unicellular, right? Our cells, tissues, and fluids to organs and organ systems. From the really biochemical levels of biology all the way to physiology, which is why at Viome, I’m a Chief Translational Science Officer. Translational science is basically about something I’ve been trying to do all my life is to translate the science of all of these different molecules, pathways, and the biology of the situation into something that is immediately actionable for health.

I’m a scientist that basically has all the background in biochemistry, cell biology, molecular biology, and human genetics as well, but who’s always worked in a clinical setting—clinical or pharmaceutical type of setting. I worked with many different pharma companies. I worked for clinical diagnostic labs that became part of Quest for four years. I’ve really worked on things from drug and target discovery to clinical trials. More recently, before Viome, I worked at Human Longevity with Craig Venter that has its own basically clinic component called Health Nucleus and is still there. I was there from early on.

In all of the different endeavors and efforts, I’ve always created new novel innovations to connect all of the data at scale to inform clinical healthcare and wellness, especially here in Viome with the wellness space. It’s more scientifically powered. I always felt like a lot of this expertise that we’re given when we get our education, our training as scientists stays in the early discovery, the academics, or early discovery phases within pharmaceutical tracks.

But sometimes, we have enough knowledge to take all of these different points of information and analyze it in maybe some novel and creative ways to scale it, deliver it, and do something really sensible with it to impact the health of people right now. Not all of it needs to go through 12 years of any molecular specific drug development process. When it comes to health and wellness like food and supplements, there are so many things that are well-known that we want to be able to just package and scale that knowledge.

I’ve always been extremely motivated in actually harnessing this power in information. You can’t do that without embracing the complexity. So in order to translate all that information to health care and to empower people to take control of their health, somebody out there needs to be able to get into the complexities of all the systems. Hence, the term systems biology where you really look at all of the different components and figure out what are the mechanisms of health versus disease. 

What are the mechanisms that can give us these points of intervention that we know how to deal with? We can take nutraceuticals. We can take nutrients from drugs or supplements and how they all work together. Because when it comes down to it, it’s molecules in food, molecules in supplements, molecules in your drugs talking to molecules in your microbiome, talking to molecules in your cells, in your lymphocytes, in your brain cells. All of these routes of communication are what I basically specialize in. Those are some of the things we call pathways. That’s the essential part of systems biology, which is needed to embrace the complexity and deliver something actionable for your health.

 

[00:11:17] Ashley James: How many pathways does a Viome test when they look at the full RNA sequencing and expressions of your mitochondria and their very complex microbiome?

 

[00:11:38] Ally Perlina: Good question, Ashley. It’s about a couple of hundred thousand.

 

[00:11:42] Ashley James: Wow. Just a couple of hundred thousand. We went through a few of them, and we’re going to talk about a few of them in our interview today. But that was one of my first questions because as we were going through them, I thought just how many pathways are you looking at. And each individual, as you were going through my results, it was so interesting that you said, if I were to look at half your results, I would have predicted differently the other half. And this is why it’s so interesting how unique we are that we have to look at the full picture to see where each individual person is along their healing journey, and how we can help them right now.

My first time speaking with you I brought up that I had figured out that I could not eat eggs. That was the last thing to go to become whole food plant-based. I was still eating eggs, but I was basically like an ovo vegetarian. But I noticed I had these heart palpitations, and I didn’t know where they were coming from. I don’t know why they just presented themselves as they did. But I had completely changed my diet, and thus the microbiome changes I suppose. Because I’d shed all these other foods, it was the last animal product to go. And so these heart palpitations were so frequent they were getting kind of scary.

I consulted a cardiologist. I wore a device for several days and it monitored my heart. In the end, he said there’s nothing wrong with your heart, but that there’s a stressor. There’s some stressor your body is going through that is putting your heart in this position, your heart’s reacting to the stressor. He had no tools, of course. I mean, he was a great cardiologist, but he’s like listen, come back to me when you need cholesterol meds. There was nothing beyond that he had for me.

The frustrating part is MDs are trained to catch us when we’re ill and hopefully help us so we’re not going to die at that moment. But they’re not trained in how to take you from let’s say just slightly poor health and help you get to optimal health. That’s just not in their wheelhouse. Their wheelhouse isn’t systems biology, looking at the way that each individual person works, how their genetics are expressing, and the genetics of their microbiome is expressing. That’s where you guys come in.

I figured out, something just hit me. Why don’t I do an experiment, not eat eggs for a while then eat eggs and see if that’s it? I did that with other foods, but when I took eggs out, my heart palpitations stopped completely. And then about seven days later I had an egg, and by the time I’d finished eating the egg, the heart palpitations were back. And I thought this is very interesting. I attempted the experiment several times, and sure enough, I can give myself basically an irregular heartbeat by eating eggs or not.

You saw that in my gut biome. You saw it in my Viome results. You said, oh. When you said it, it was like watching a masterpiece. The way you explained how it all works and how that was feeding this particular microbiome, which creates this type of metabolite which then my liver converts to this, and then my heart reacts to it this way. All the pathways made complete sense from a to b. But as you and I talked, it became so clear to me. If we could explain to people who aren’t biologists what a microbiome is, the bacteria, the complex system that is in our gut, and how much we need it for life and health. I came to the conclusion that it’s like having a factory, having a pharmacy inside our gut. You like that.

Some people say it’s like having an animal because it’s about six pounds, so it could be like having a chihuahua in your gut. But it’s actually much more complex than that. It’s like having a pharmacy in your gut or a factory. What you put in is what it puts out, and the metabolites. So it’s not that you necessarily have a bad microbiome, but it’s that when I put in eggs from the choline, my unique microbiome is going to produce something that all these pathways then come together to irritate my heart and could lead to further heart disease down the road.

Whereas other people have no problem with choline and wouldn’t have that reaction. But there are other pathways that you put into the microbiome, not necessarily sugar. Everyone thinks you eat sugar, it causes diabetes. Someone could put cauliflower or whatever, they could put something that’s somewhat healthy for someone else, but because of how their pathways are expressing, they put that into their little pharmacy factory—which is their microbiome gut—into it, and then what comes out are the metabolites that would put the stressors on the body that could lead to diabetes, or either cause it or contribute to it. That you can see that many diseases that we’re suffering could be corrected by making sure we know exactly what we as individuals should and shouldn’t be eating.

 

[00:17:37] Ally Perlina: Right. So let me just get back to a couple of points you said that I think are really important, and maybe some of the listeners are well aware of them. But just to be absolutely clear, I think it’s important to emphasize that no one good food is necessarily always good for everybody, and sometimes it can actually be bad, so it depends. And if you know what it depends on, then we would not be doing justice to health care and wellness. If we didn’t actually delineate what it depends on, put it into some sort of logic, rules, and content, and scale it so it can help the masses. 

That’s one of the reasons why when I came to Viome, I made it a huge point right away to make sure that when I developed the scoring system for the pathways or how we connect this to the personalization of the foods, that it’s something that does not need another alley or anyone from my team in the loop to be able to actually release the results. That it’s end-to-end automated. Because if we know what it depends on—whatever it may be—and when it’s good or bad for you, then we need to be able to inform people so that at least they can make more biologically informed choices when it comes to eggs or broccoli.

So back to your egg example, what you have are two things why egg yolk may not be good for you, and it’s actually on your avoid list. One of the things is TMA production by your microbiome. So your microbes actually use the choline that they would get from egg yolk, not so much from the egg white. That’s still fine and a source of protein and all, but egg yolk is on your void because it has choline and choline is what serves as a substrate for your microbes in the gut to take it and then convert it to trimethylamine also known as TMA.

So when we say convert, it means there are some of these sequences of events that happen, and that’s what we call a pathway. So a biological pathway is a sequence of molecular interactions or biochemical reaction steps that has a beginning, middle, and an end sort of tells you a story and says what is actively happening? What’s coming? What’s going? So in your case, in the egg case, that choline is coming and TMA is being produced and then it’s going. TMA is trimethylamine, so microbes use the substrate as choline converted to TMA. We see those pathways because we see RNA. So it lights up the gene expression values along these pathways that we reconstruct. We build them so we can score them. We can see, okay, you have higher than usual trimethylamine production in your microbiome.

So what that means is that now that you have this TMA and it’s made in your gut, it can actually then become available to the circulation. And through the portal vein, it can go to your liver where it gets naturally converted to TMAO. TMA as well to some degree is associated with harmful or no beneficial effects on cardiovascular health. So that could be some of the association. Again, I’m not claiming any causation and it causes multiple factors usually for something to actually go wrong, but it’s a very, very peculiar phenomenon that you’re sharing about your effects that you felt physically after eating eggs.

So this could be part of it or the main part of it that you have this TMA, TMAO pathway in which your gut microbiome plays a key role. And that is something that we can measure with our metatranscriptomics technology. That’s how we go from basically gene expression that we get from your stool sample, gene expression from RNA sequencing called metatranscriptomics technology. It tells us how much are those genes expressed, are they up or down. How do they factor into these pathways that we have put together so we can tell you then what? Then it’s like, okay, we get it that TMA is happening and more than what we usually see then it goes and can be converted to TMAO, which we know is not good for cardiovascular health.

So what do you do about that? One of the things is you can limit inputs into the TMA production pathway by the microbiome, so that’s why egg yolk is on your avoid, it has a lot of choline in it. Whereas for other people, choline is actually just fine. It can be good for rebuilding your membranes and maintaining them. It can be good for the gut-brain axis and support some of the neuronal-glial health. So for you, it’s good to basically stay away from egg yolk, and that’s one of the reasons. The other reason that could have something to do with cardiovascular health is that you just have another score in your report that involves multiple pathways—hundreds of them actually—that assesses overall gut microbiome induced stress. Stress response, in general, there are many different types and different reasons for it.

So one of the things that you have is you have a sub-optimal score on your microbiome induced stress. That’s a functional area score that involves many different pathways, and we’ll cover many of them or at least some of them, which include sulfide production, ammonia production, and those things that can contribute to overall stressors that may come through the gut into your bloodstream. In your results, they’re not enough to actually cause overall inflammation, we’ll talk about that as well, but it could be a slight culprit besides the TMA-TMAO story.

And then back to the egg example, another reason why it’s on avoid, it’s not enough to just have one thing necessarily off a little bit. Sometimes it’s more than one, many times it’s more than one factor that places food into your superfood, avoid, or other categories. In this case, there is another factor that placed your egg yolk on avoid, and it’s the fact that it’s high in sulfur. With your profile, sulfur goes into the sulfide production pathways a bit too much—more than we’d like. So sulfide is not necessarily a villain, it’s not necessarily absolutely bad, but when too much sulfide gas is produced in your gut, it can be disruptive to your gut lining and it can be—for apparent reasons—disruptive to your digestive symptoms and your gut health. It can also have a negative impact on your gut motility.

So because the egg has sulfur, it’s one of the two main reasons why egg yolk specifically is on your avoid. Because you have too much hydrogen sulfide gas production by your microbiome. So that’s another part of the story, and again, it’s many to many. So the other part of that piece—the sulfide story—is actually your cruciferous vegetables. When you see a score that says sulfide gas production pathways, a lot of times, people will ask well what does it mean? What can I do about it? 

In our food recommendations, you can see when a food explanation refers to a specific score. You will see that in your egg yolk as well as broccoli and cabbage, it will tell you that the reason it’s on your avoid has—or at least one of the reasons has to do with—your sulfide gas production pathway score being too high. It means we have too much of that activity lit up with all of the gene expressions along these pathways saying your microbes are making too much sulfide gas. What they use as a substrate is something that comes from these cruciferous vegetables. It actually explains in the paragraph there that a compound class called glucosinolates—part of the organosulfur compounds—is actually what serves as in a way a culprit. It can be good for some people, but for you, it’s a culprit because it can serve as a substrate for the sulfide gas production indirectly.

First, it gets converted to sulfate, and then from sulfate, it goes and gets converted to sulfide gas by your microbiome. The thing that converts it to sulfate, Ashley, is myrosinase, and it’s an enzyme that’s in the vegetable and gets activated when you’re chewing it. So raw vegetable chewing actually activates this enzyme and gives you more of the sulfate, which is a direct substrate for more of the sulfide gas production. So do you know what you can do if you still want to have a little bit of those avoid foods but you want to minimize the effect of this sulfate substrate production for your sulfide gas?

 

[00:26:40] Ashley James: What can I do?

 

[00:26:41] Ally Perlina: You can steam it just a little bit because it will destroy the enzyme because it’s heat sensitive, so it will destroy or inactivate the enzyme in the food, myrosinase, which is needed to convert glucosinolates into sulfates. So you will diminish that action a little bit. It’s not going to completely get rid of the organosulfur content in the food, and it can still—in one pathway or another—feed your microbes, but it really diminishes these results. Based on what people report, they actually see or feel less of that bloating or gas production.

So I would ask you, do you feel any difference or do you feel any gas production effects with cruciferous vegetables versus other vegetables like arugula, kale, or something?

 

[00:27:33] Ashley James: I would say yes. But up until I got my Viome results 17 days ago, I ate cruciferous vegetables daily. Although gas was always around in certain amounts, it wasn’t smelly, so I didn’t think that there was a big problem with it. I just thought, okay. I also eat beans although I soak them and cook them in the Instant Pot. But I do notice, especially raw broccoli, raw cauliflower, or raw cabbage—I really enjoy raw cabbage in a salad. Especially in kale and raw purple cabbage in a salad would produce gas more so than if I were to eat zucchini, for example.

 

[00:28:29] Ally Perlina: How about arugula, just because it came to me?

 

[00:28:32] Ashley James: I don’t often eat arugula on its own.

 

[00:28:39] Ally Perlina: Spinach.

 

[00:28:41] Ashley James: Yup, I don’t have a problem with gas in spinach. I do eat raw spinach, I eat cooked spinach. The arugula I do eat is fermented actually in a really delicious fermented arugula pesto.

 

[00:28:56] Ally Perlina: Mmm.

 

[00:28:57] Ashley James: Yeah, it’s so good. If I have arugula, it’s usually mixed with other greens, but I don’t seem to notice quite a difference. But then again, like I said, up until 17 days ago, I was eating cruciferous vegetables for almost every meal. So gas was all the time. It wasn’t unbearable though. But then again, most of the time, I would cook those foods.

The reason why I wanted Ally to give a little bit of a deep dive into my results, your results are going to be different, everyone’s results are different. But just to hear how much information you get, how much guidance you get from a Viome test, and how unique each person’s experience is going to be is actually quite exciting because, in the last few years, I’ve been the healthiest I have felt in a long time. As much whole food plant-based as I possibly can, and of course gluten-free. Ever since cutting eggs out, I feel great, but I felt like throwing darts in the dark. I’m going to try this, I’m going to try that, and I do love doing that. I do love listening to my body and trying different things.

I felt like there was a missing piece, and I really feel like Viome has been, for me, the missing link to pulling it all together for me because I would have never considered lowering my cruciferous vegetable intake. Never ever would have thought that. In the other foods that were recommended I reduce, those are my daily staples as well like coconut. Since I have cut that out—really significantly reduced coconut—and I feel like I’ve come into a new chapter in my health because I also understand why. 

Although everything that Ally says sounds quite complicated and science-based, I want her to explain the science behind it. When you get your Viome results, it’s very clear, simple, and easy to understand. And then you click through and there’s more detail. And then if you want to learn more, then you click through and then there’s even more detail when you click through, and there are scientific references. If you want to just stay surface, if you’re one of those people that just need to be told what to eat, what not to eat and that’s all the bandwidth you have, then you get those. 

If you’re like me and you want everything, you want the Ph.D. version of your Viome results, then you get that too which is exciting. I really do like how you have set up Viome so that people have to click through and click through and click through to chunk down into more and more detailed information so they don’t get overwhelmed. The results themselves are not overwhelming, but at the first sight, I was disappointed I’m like, oh, this is it? And then I click through I’m like oh there’s more, click through again, oh there’s more. It is quite interesting. In the future, you guys are going to have even more coming out.

When I had Naveen on the show in episode 441, I had not taken the Viome test yet. And I have to share that I absolutely adore the test. It’s a home kit. It is in a beautiful little box and the instructions couldn’t be easier. They’re very simple. And when I sat down to draw my blood, it is as easy as just a prick of the finger, and then and then this little tiny plastic thing sucks the drop of blood up into it. It’s so easy to do. It’s not intimidating at all. I commend you on how beautiful and simple the system is. It’s not overwhelming. You just have to read the instructions in advance to know that you want to be fully hydrated, you want to do the blood sample in the morning. Just take some time to read the instructions and know when you’re going to do the stool and the blood when you’re going to do each one. And then you send it in. I really enjoyed the whole process of sending in my kit. I enjoyed the process of receiving all the information.

I then ordered your supplements, which we’re going to talk a bit about that as well because you make individualized supplements based on the genetic expression of our microbiome and mitochondria and all the results—the cellular health results that you have. I’m very excited to receive those, so I hope to do a later interview talking about my experience with your supplements because I’m already on supplements, but my supplements are more just for the whole body health—vitamins and minerals—but your supplements are specific to looking at the genetic pathways, like you said, a few hundred thousand pathways, and supporting the body and coming back into balance in such an individual way. That’s very, very exciting.

 

[00:34:12] Ally Perlina: We’ll talk about some of your supplements as an example, but I think that’s a good idea to actually review your supplements and everything you’ve been taking and the Viome supplements that you’ll get and then see how you’re responding to them. then drill into it a bit more as a follow-up if you’d like.

 

[00:34:32] Ashley James: I’d love that.

 

[00:34:33] Ally Perlina: I think we noticed there were some themes or some things that you were already aware of, which is great. So some of your digestive related components like protein fermentation and being able to digest your proteins and keep your stomach acidity levels at the right level and optimal. So all of these things can be adjusted or manipulated, to some degree, with supplements. Some of them are digestive enzymes that you already know about, and some of them can come from foods as well as supplement delivered nutrients. So bromelain, papain come from pineapple and papaya respectively, and then there’s betaine. Originally it got the name because it came from the beet.

Those are some of the natural ways to help your digestion, and in your case, the reason it’s specific to your pathways that we see is that we do see some of these a little bit more active than usual. Protein fermentation pathways, which means that the microbes are fermenting aka metabolizing different proteins more than you would expect them to in the gut. That means that you, the host, did not make enough of an effort or enough turns in there in your metabolism to completely process all of the different protein sources that you get. 

Again, sometimes it could be the vegetable sources or the nuts and seeds that have a very dense protein that make it hard to process it all. Then it gets to your colon and then microbes go oh my goodness, a lot of unprocessed proteins. So you encourage those microbes called protein fermenters to be very active. So that means you encourage more and more of them to thrive. When there are too many of them, again, it’s not about the microbes themselves. But what they’re doing, they crank up these pathways that yield production of those types of—you could call it—the pharmacy is producing some of the chemicals that are not so good for you.

So what you see reflected in your report, not even something that is just behind the scenes that I’m sharing with you. But right in the report, it says you have high ammonia production pathways, you have high sulfide production pathways, you have high putrescine production pathways. All of these different things are byproducts of protein fermentation. So we talked about sulfide already. We actually just covered one type of pathway that came from sulfate or elemental sulfur in your foods, but we didn’t cover the other side which means that actually sulfide in your microbiome can also be produced from sulfur amino acids, which came from your proteins. 

So that’s another byproduct of protein fermentation. So you’ll see a theme in what we talk about is that it’s always like many to many, so there are multiple types of pathways and inputs that can feed one microbial metabolite production like sulfide gas. The way to mitigate the sulfide could be from many different foods, and some of them have a high content of a certain nutrient, and some have low content. we have all that part of the knowledge base so that we can tell you from many to many which foods or nutrients supplements are best for you and are most important superfood or to avoid them.

For the pathways, you could see that sulfide for instance it’s part of the pro-inflammatory activity because it can have an inflammatory effect on your gut lining and overall, but it is also part of your protein fermentation theme. Those themes are like the functional scores that level in our UI you’ll see that you probably already have, those are the functional score areas. Then there are the pathway scores like ammonia, sulfide, and putrescine that I just mentioned. Those are pathway scores that feed into the functional area scores, and multiple functional area scores ultimately get aggregated into the health level scores.

So on the level of a health score, you have gut microbiome health, you have cellular health, immune system health, and stress response health. Those health scores, you have them actually for the most part in an average zone. There’s also mitochondrial health I forgot to mention. But once you start drilling into it, you will actually see how, just like you said, you drill into it if you want to know the details. Why is it not 100%? Why is this score not perfect? Then you see that on a more granular level, aha, it’s the protein fermentation, which is part of digestive efficiency. And then there’s the inflammatory activity, which both have the sulfide gas production and ammonia production pathway score.

So as you drill in even further and you say, okay, my food said something about this sulfide thing. I want to learn about that score. Then you learn about that score and you see that actually, even that is many different pathways that can lead to sulfide gas production, which is why even in that pathway score, it’s still plural. It’s called sulfide gas production pathways because there are many, many different routes like hundreds of them that can lead to the ultimate production of sulfide by your microbes.

So understanding which ones of those are most lit up and how active those pathways are is what helps us to connect on the molecular level this whole system of many to many from scores on different levels to nutrients in either food and or supplements.

Anyway, bringing it back to the whole point is that you have various health areas, You have your digestion, and you have your protein fermentation. So to address the protein fermentation and the other route of sulfide gas production, that’s why you see some of the digestive enzymes, which you’re already getting in your supplements. You will see some of the foods that give you more bioavailable elemental amino acids, so some of the sprouted foods. I think you have the grapefruit and some of these like betaine and papain sources.

And then you also have to stay away from cruciferous vegetables for the sulfide reasons and things like that. So that tells you how many different areas of superfood and avoid recommendations, enzymes, and other types of nutrients in your supplements all have to do with various aspects of multiple scores. There’s protein fermentation, there’s sulfide reduction, there’s an inflammatory activity, and all of these different components.

Sometimes, when people say, okay, just tell us exactly what is this one thing or how to improve this one score. A lot of times, there is more than one way to improve them, and to different people are different foods that will actually do the trick. So one score can influence many foods, and one food can be influenced by many, many different scores before it’s actually placed into your minimize or avoid. So if you want us to like spell out every single piece of the logic that is taking place for your results, then it’s almost like you have to be careful what you wish for because it could be hundreds of pages of different lines of code that took all these things into consideration and said okay, it’s really avoid for you.

 

[00:42:20] Ashley James: Just avoid it.

 

[00:42:21] Ally Perlina: That’s how it goes. Just avoid it, or just get these supplements, it’s good for you. Now, when we can, we highlight that. If you get your report and just even find on page—Control F or Command F—and you say score, then you will see all of the references in your food recommendations pages to any score. Whenever it’s a very obvious one that you can pin it more or less on that one score to focus on, we do tell you that except you’ll see more than one food most likely that alludes to that score when it needs help. That’s just the thing.

We try the best we can and thank you for the kind words saying that we’ve done a pretty good job, but we need to do probably even better to strike that balance between giving people all that information because we truly want to empower them with all this knowledge. But at the same time, not overwhelming them and making it very simple and clear. Okay, some of these things, they’re not optimal so you see it in the red. These are the foods you need to focus on, these are your superfoods, these are your avoid foods, and these are your supplements. 

So at least, if that’s all they want to get out of this, they don’t want to be burdened with all this extra info, they can get that and take it to action immediately on that day because that’s extremely important. If you overwhelm people, it doesn’t matter how smart you are, it’s not about that. You’re not helping them if it loses them. We need to be very much mindful of this concept of balance.

 

[00:43:52] Ashley James: It’s interesting talking to you, I think I identified that I have been eating less and less protein from plant sources because it does—in large amounts—give me quite a bit of bloating. Even with too much tofu, it’s upsetting, and just thinking about beans, I think I just have gradually been eating less and less or smaller portions, I should say. That and I’m very satisfied with how many grams of protein I consume. Although now I’m pregnant and my midwife has made it abundantly clear that she wants me eating more protein. But as far as the average female, 40 grams of protein for the average female is quite sufficient, 60 if you’re an athlete, which is easily doable from multiple plant sources.

However, if I were to consume a great deal of any kinds of protein powder like pea protein, pumpkin seed protein, or edamame. Any large amount I would get bloated and that is interesting that you say that it’s because you can see it in my microbiome that it is fermenting, it’s not properly digesting, it’s fermenting, and then it’s leading to metabolites. What do these metabolites do to the body?

 

[00:45:32] Ally Perlina: Great question. So in your case specifically, I mean, I want to put it in the context that there are many things they can do, but there is this aggregate functional score called microbiome induced stress. I know it sounds quite general until you drill into it and you see exactly what it is. It will explain to you that within microbiome induced stress, which you have in the red zone so it’s not optimal. it’s not terrible or anything but it’s in the suboptimal zone. You’ll see that is where you have that ammonia production, uric acid, sulfide production, and even TMA production I believe as well. All these pathway scores are part of the microbiome induced stress.

So what does it mean microbiome induced stress? I mean, there are so many different types of stress. So microbiomes can secrete those or produce those metabolites, which are small molecules, and they can cross the gut lining, the intestinal barrier pretty easily even if you have a pretty good gut lining, which according to our test seems like you do. But some of these really, really small molecules like ammonia it’s pretty tiny. It can really cross easily and go into the bloodstream, and in the bloodstream, it can really cause its own pro-inflammatory or stress response type of reaction. In a way, it can be somewhat of a toxin. Again, not to sound scary or anything like that, but it’s all about the relative amounts. 

So sulfide, ammonia, putrescine, cadaverine, the byproducts of protein fermentation—that’s one source. The other source of microbiome induced stress or potential pro-inflammatory type stress is your uric acid production, and that’s something that can actually be felt or experienced by some people—to some degree, depends on how much of it you have and how quickly your body gets rid of it, mitigates it, or clears it.

All of these different pathway scores actually tell you well why you need to even know about this pathway? Because if it’s not insightful for your health or it’s not actionable, then who would want to log in just to learn biology, right? There are textbooks for that. Of course, we’re learning something new about biology in this new context, but still, we only give you something that is insightful and actionable. You can read about it and there are references, but just to summarize, all of these different small molecules, the microbes make. If they make too much they cross the gut lining, and then they go into the bloodstream. And they can actually inflict a little bit of the damaging response to certain cellular membranes or stress your system to be able to keep up with clearing or detoxing some of these different molecular entities.

If you don’t have your entire system up to the task, it’s somewhat of a warning sign to make sure that you mitigate that. That’s why for the overall health level of stress response health, you’re still fine, You’re in the average zone. But when it comes to microbiome induced stress, that’s where you can read more about these pathways like ammonia, sulfide, and the other ones that I just mentioned so you could see what it does to your body. We already talked about some of the foods and digestive strategies that you need to focus on that are part of your recommendations and foods and supplements so you can be prepared and mitigate.

So even if nothing really palpable is already happening, the point is to keep you in the wellness space and keep as much illness optional as possible so that you can take action on your biology. Like you said, you don’t want to just throw darts at some fad diets or trendy supplements. You want to be able to make biologically informed choices that are smart for you, that are informed by your own pathways, your own biology with molecular-level precision. That’s basically what we’re all about. I hope that answers your question, or if you want, we could go more specifically.

 

[00:49:49] Ashley James: Well, I love that you said biologically informed choices. I mean, that’s a writer downer right there. I told you about my history with the ketogenic diet, the paleo diet. I’ve been on at least 25 diets. I’ve read every diet book you could touch because I’m a seeker of health, though. I was trying to figure out what my body best requires. Everyone that writes a diet book says that theirs is the best and they have the science to back it. When I went through the institute for integrative nutrition—it’s a year-long health coach training program—you learn a hundred different dietary theories, and every week we’re trying a new one. Once you learn one you want to try it.

Within the first week or so, we’re doing the raw vegan diet. I lasted six days on that. I felt fantastic, but boy was I gassy. I expected the gas to go away because all the raw vegans say that’ll go away, that’ll go away, and now I know why I was gassy, first of all. Luckily, the gas is not smelly, it’s just plentiful. So when I was doing the raw vegan diet, that was just like I could have powered a vehicle. Each experience with different health routines showed me just how wrong it is to listen to one expert and do one diet that’s apparently supposed to be for everyone. Because if I can’t eat cruciferous vegetables because of the genetic expressions of my unique microbiome, then any diet that incorporates cruciferous vegetables is not going to be beneficial to me as an individual.

But with the ketogenic diet, which many have touted as being just a miracle for them, left me in such a bad state of health that it took me a few years to recover. And it left my husband in such a bad state of health that he was immediately put on two medications—actually three I believe and then he was down to two—because it damaged his kidneys. We were actually under the supervision of a naturopath while we were doing this ketogenic diet, but it destroyed my husband’s kidneys. It took him a few years, but he was able to completely recover using natural medicine. That’s when we adopted a whole food plant-based diet, that was right around that time. For me, it damaged my liver and I had such bad digestive distress from the ketogenic diet.

Again, if we apply what you’re teaching, which is making biologically informed choices based on the unique complexity of the own expression of the bacteria that are in us and part of us, then we can craft the most healing diet for us. If someone leans more towards eating paleo, more towards eating the Mediterranean, more towards eating their native diet—maybe their South American, Central American, or Asian diet. If they lean more towards looking at their ancestors and eating more what their ancestors ate in that way and they feel good, then they take your kit and they get the results back. Your kits give you lots of foods you can eat. You give lots of foods that are superfoods that are incredibly healing for your body, and then you give a dozen or so or two dozen absolutely avoid these, and here are the reasons why.

Someone could take that and adapt it to any way of eating that best suits them. But since I have removed all of the do not eat that you have on my list, and since I have increased the superfoods—which I’m so excited about, I’m absolutely loving them—without guilt, I am avidly eating my avocados again, and all the other things in the superfood list. You even give how much of each one to reduce. Here, just have half a cup of this at most. I’ve taken that so seriously and I really feel—in the last 17 days—a huge shift in my digestion, even though I am going through the stages of pregnancy that would actually leave me in worse digestion. I’m feeling the least bloated I have in a very long time.

I came to Viome without any real health concerns. I just wanted to take it to the next level, but people come to you who have major health problems, who have MS, have Hashimoto’s, or have major gut dysbiosis. I have several listeners who have expressed concerns that they now can only eat a dozen foods or less because most foods make them sick. They feel very pinned into a corner where they now only have just a small handful of foods that they can eat because they’ve done an elimination diet and they’ve really discovered that almost everything makes them sick.

Well, if they had this information at hand it would help them to understand why. Maybe something as simple as the supplements that your results show because you show here is the different digestive enzymes you’re low in. If you were to incorporate those, then maybe they would have been able to then eat a larger variety of foods. Because it’s not always about what we’re allergic to, it’s about what metabolites our microbiome produces, and those metabolites can cause damage.

Now just to get back to some very specific examples because this is all wonderful information you’re sharing, but I want people to be able to relate it to their life specifically. Can you give a real-world example of a metabolite or metabolites that are created in the gut, and what symptoms or illness could people have as a result of specific metabolites created by the microbiome?

 

[00:56:42] Ally Perlina: Yeah, absolutely. So we talked a little bit about a few of them. Just to say that look, if you have microbiome-induced stress or inflammation, then you may have all kinds of feelings of either a toxic burden where you feel a little unwell, tired, queasy; or you may have more brain fog because it can also cross. Those things can cross the blood-brain and gut blood barriers. That could be one of the themes but, I didn’t touch on the other themes.

There are really well-known pro-inflammatory molecules that are produced by the microbiome like LPAs—lipopolysaccharide. Specific types of lipids and carbohydrate subunits, that’s why the lipopolysaccharide. Saccharide is for the carbs, and lipo is the lipid part. They get together and in slightly different conformations based on what microbes are there. they can be actually found in the blood especially if you have more of a leaky gut. The reason I didn’t bring it up right away, especially in your context, is because you don’t have an LPS score for LPS biosynthesis. The production of this LPS molecule, you don’t have it in the red, you don’t have it as suboptimal. So you’re more or less fine on that, and you also have a good gut lining health score.

In general, we do see quite a few. It’s a pretty common case. I would say 30% of our Viome population, quite a few people have LPS production on the higher side. And if it goes hand in hand with your gut lining score being suboptimal as well, then you’re really at risk of triggering an immune response. The way it happens is this LPS molecule, which is just part of the normal outside coding of some of the microbes, not all. It goes into the bloodstream and it elicits this immune response. The blood cells start to notice it and recruit other blood cells, say hey, come over here. We’ve got an issue. So to do that, they have to secrete certain molecules themselves, and that’s the signaling that happens now on the blood side of things, which we also test with the health intelligence kit. The service gives you this kit to test the blood that you mentioned already.

So you collect your blood. We look at gene expression, not only within your microbiome now, but now we look from the blood side to see are those pathways on, and are they really active that tell us that you have immune triggering happening a bit too much? Do you have it really high? Because that’s exactly what can happen if some of the pro-inflammatory metabolites can cross the gut lining and actually instigate some of this reaction. So that the T cells of different kinds will start to get overly active and secrete these proinflammatory molecules in order to combat the foreign type of substance that has entered the blood. And those molecules are called some of the cytokines or pro-inflammatory cytokines. Maybe some of you have heard of interleukins and TNF alpha.

It can cause other types of molecules to be elevated. And ultimately, if they don’t come down, so to speak, then some damage can be done to cellular components and membranes. And a lot of the cellular energy can be expanded towards mitigating this inflammation, which really should not even be there in the bloodstream, as opposed to healing and rejuvenating itself. In that sense, we’re waiting to get to the point like okay, well, how do I sense it? How do I feel it aside from testing it?

That’s the tricky part because depending on what you’re doing to yourself, what you’re eating, what you’re susceptible to, and what else is going on, inflammation can actually take residents in different parts of a human body. some people, like I said, the inflammation can actually be manifested in the brain, in the mind, in such a way that is just subtle enough that you won’t think of it like aha, I feel inflammation because you just might experience a little bit of irritability, insomnia, brain fog, confusion, or anxiety.

Actually, some of the pro-inflammatory pathways that can stem from the gut microbiome have been implicated in lowering dopamine levels, which can make people feel depressed. They have also been implicated in the pathogenesis of neurodegenerative diseases because if enough of these molecules or the microbes themselves like the small viruses from the gut can actually go all the way through the blood into the brain, they can activate now inside the central nervous system. They can activate pathways to where the glial cells actually overreact, and then they start to get destroyed and inflammation in the brain can cause neuronal damage, which then contributes to—like you were mentioning—a mess and other things. They can be part of the entire picture of some of the neurodegenerative, cognitive, or mood disorders. So that’s one set.

And then another set of inflammation examples that we all probably heard of a lot is the autoimmune joint conditions. There’s the more local, obviously, IBD—inflammatory bowel disease, which is right there in the gut. And then there are a lot of customers that say that following our regimen really helps them who have joint, skin, and other types of inflammatory conditions where you can really see it and feel it. Because inflammation is not created to be equal in any one organ. Whatever you have going on, it depends on the ecosystem and the system’s biology of the entire body of all the systems. Wherever you have the weakest link, that’s where inflammation will take residence and manifest itself first and foremost and then all the other places.

Some people may not feel it or may not realize that aha, this could be some low-grade inflammation, and some people may truly feel it. Where you feel it completely depends on you, but some of the top symptoms that seem to have improvement in time within our customer base—and we have over 100,000 customers now—deal with mood and autoimmune inflammatory conditions from psoriasis, to rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel conditions, to mood and sleep, and cognitive and digestive disorders in general. Like I said, it can be different places where it manifests itself.

I wanted to ask you, so far, when we talk about any of these pathways. We talked about TMA a little bit, but then there was a set of pathways you had suboptimal like ammonia, sulfide, and uric acid. Would you say that any of them—even just from reviewing the information—ring a bell with something that you know you had before or you could feel before?

 

[01:04:25] Ashley James: In regards to?

 

[01:04:32] Ally Perlina: So uric acid, for example, is something that can come from either purines or protein fermentation, but it’s something that people may not feel and other people may feel it if a lot of it accumulates. And that’s what’s causing gout usually, so I’m just curious.

 

[01:04:42] Ashley James: Got it. Okay. Absolutely, yes. My blood results from the last few years have shown higher levels of uric acid, especially when I ate meat. Especially back when I did a ketogenic diet, my liver was incredibly angry at me. It was actually sticking out. It was quite inflamed. I had to get an ultrasound and they said I didn’t have a fatty liver, I didn’t have a cirrhosis liver. I just had an inflamed liver, very angry from the ketogenic diet, and then a very high uric acid level.

I didn’t experience gout like the typical person does where it’s in their big toe. I had this pain at the base of my foot almost like plantar fasciitis. I was like, I wonder is this plantar fasciitis, is this a bone spur? And just on a gut instinct level—and this is long after I had left the ketogenic diet but right before I transitioned into eating no meat at all. I grabbed some tart cherry juice from the health food store, and I started drinking between two and four ounces a day of the concentrate, and I’d add it to water. And very quickly, within a day or two, the pain in my foot was gone. I know that tart cherry juice is also very anti-inflammatory. It helps the body produce more melatonin, so people get great sleep when you take it. It’s a wonderful whole food supplement to take, and it’s quite delicious. But knowing that the pain went away immediately I thought, that must be basically gout in my foot manifesting.

At the time, I never really cared for organ meat, so I wasn’t gorging on any kind of meat. But my naturopath did say that based on looking at my diet and looking at my blood work, I tended to lean more towards having a build-up of uric acid. That’s something though that I feel like I’ve gotten under control because I don’t eat any meat so there’s really a low purine diet. And then I avoid the other foods that contain purine. And then if I ever do get that feeling in my foot, I just start drinking the tart cherry juice. Although, I haven’t had it lately, which is quite exciting. But my liver is getting healthier and healthier. It’s interesting because that actually came up in my Viome results, which I never thought that there could be a link to the metabolites produced from the bacteria in my body.

 

[01:07:36] Ally Perlina: So that is actually very, very interesting because it can actually accumulate to some degree in different tissues, and you may feel a little achy or a little bit of stiffness or limitation of movement, and that could be due to uric acid. Uric acid is something that can be pro-inflammatory, and it’s interesting what it’s made of by the microbiome. The pathways can come from either the urea cycle, which is from the different amino acid inputs, so back to your protein fermentation protein digestion patterns. Or it can come from purines and purines are high in different meats, fish, seafood, and also some of the vegetables as well.

You could see in your results the haddock, for instance, is to be avoided because of the purines in it, the uric acid potential to promote those pathways. For you, if you did want to eat some fish maybe once in a while, salmon would be a much better choice. Whereas I think it’s also halibut, haddock, and trout would not be good because they have a lot of purines. It’s not just organ meats and you’ve done yourself a great favor that you avoid that because of the TMA issue that we talked about and the protein fermentation and digestive efficiency issue. But also now because of the purines.

Some people feel absolutely great eating all kinds of meats, and they cannot take all of these different vegetables. They get so bloated and they feel awful, right? Just like you said, some people feel absolutely great on a ketogenic diet and it’s like the biggest blessing that happened to them. But it’s not just one type of diet that works for all. Unfortunately, it’s usually some complexity of different mixes of things that work just for you. You are your own personalized menu that you need to work out for yourself, and there’s just no shortcut around that.

In your case, you’ve done so great that even before having this information, you’ve avoided all of these different meats, organ meats, and those types of foods because you naturally just don’t have the biology to deal with them in the best way where something beneficial would happen to you. It’s actually on the contrary. Plus they come together with all of the TMA, the lipids, and the fats, which could be also tough for your liver. And we also see some of these bile tolerant organisms in there. 

So together with that and the uric acid pathways, it’s really painting this more comprehensive picture now that especially that you’ve shared some of these things with me that you won’t do well on this high protein, high-fat diet. Whereas other people I know personally and based on the stats as well, they do so and they report that they feel great on even a really greasy protein diet. But they cannot take all of these different starchy vegetables.

Again, no healthy food is healthy for everybody, and no specific source of protein or whatnot is necessarily a villain either—or good or bad. It all depends on personalization, and that’s the real trick. The key is in that that you have to basically deal with the complexity to do what’s right for you and to be biologically informed about it.

 

[01:11:30] Ashley James: I feel like the next question that’s on everyone’s mind is, is it forever? Because we’re taught that the microbiome is always changing and that we could take probiotics. Although that’s been disproven that probiotics drastically change the microbiome. But we could eat fermented foods, go gluten-free, eat organic, get a variety of different prebiotics, and nourish a more diverse microbiome. Over time, can we change our microbiome so that it would create different metabolites?

 

[01:12:17] Ally Perlina: That’s a great question, actually. In terms of changing the microbiome, people are taught to think about microbiome as this list of microbes and seeing how much of who’s there do I have. What we’re doing is a bit of a paradigm shift in that you care less about who is there and how much of them are there. You care about how active they are, but most importantly, you care about what they are actively doing? So that’s the microbiome part. And then you care about the host because in your case, you have a microbiome actively doing some of this pro-inflammatory activity in your gut. That’s why you have a microbiome score called biofilm chemotaxis and virulence pathways are not optimal.

That would make somebody worry and think well, they’re making something that signifies that there is some harmful pro-inflammatory activity. But then you also look at the closed part and you see that actually your immune system activation score—which would tell us if you have ultimately a high level of inflammation or not—is actually on the good side. Whatever happens in your gut stays in your gut. So you still need to take care of it, right? But you need to see what is being produced, what is being actually excreted, secreted, and made that I need to worry about.

On the level of the gut microbiome, you don’t want to necessarily make it a super task to completely rebuild it because you have to actually get the most out of the hand that you’re dealt. The microbiome that you have, the easiest way to reap rewards from it is to get the microbiome you have to do what’s right for you. You figure out, okay, if I give it so much of this sulfur, cruciferous vegetables, organ meats, or salt, your microbes are stressed out by too much salt or whatever and that’s bad for your probiotic microbes. You want to lower that a little bit.

You figure out, based on our recommendations, what are those things you need to optimize in your diet. Even with the microbes you have, you get them to give you the best nutrients. With all of the greens that you eat—and it shows, all of the really beneficial complex carbs that you ingest—turn into really nice butyrate production. Not everybody has that. That’s actually not a given that just because you eat vegetables you have high production of butyrate. It’s a very beneficial short-chain fatty acid, and it may just be one of the main reasons why your gut lining is pretty happy because it’s a very good nourishing component that colonocytes use for energy and it helps the anti-inflammatory effects. Even if you have your microbes secreting these virulence factors and things like that, you have some of the mitigating strategies in place as well.

When you ask about how do we take this to action and what does it all mean? You have to see—on the grand scheme of things—first of all, are my microbes really doing something bad? Not so much who is there, but are my microbes doing something bad? Is there something that tells me this is what you need to improve the score? Because if you just do that, you may already have some really beneficial outcome of that, even if who is there—the microbes themselves—have not drastically changed. And then you basically end up with a story that is not about rebuilding the entire microbiome because most of it is neither good nor bad. Most of the microbiome is just that’s your normal at this point. Completely trashing it is not necessarily a good thing, and you’re not going to take antibiotics to do that either.

What’s important is to reach a balance, and by balance, I don’t mean just a balance of good versus bad microbes because, again, most of them are neither good nor bad. But the balance of these beneficial versus harmful activities and functions. Balance of good versus bad pathways that give you good versus bad biochemical outputs—these metabolites, these molecules that then go into your bloodstream or can protect or harm your gut lining.

That’s a different way of thinking because you’re thinking what is happening, that is what matters. And what’s happening is telling me what I should do to my system. So it becomes less about treating a microbe and looking at the microbiome more as a means to an end, not the end game itself. Microbes tell us something about the host like your digestion, your patterns of what’s happening with your fats and bile acids, and things like that. They can tell us those secrets about you in a way, and so we need this very important readout from microbial activities.

But that doesn’t necessarily mean that based on it we’re going to expect to overthrow our entire microbiome. Actually, we should expect to reap the rewards of our microbiome that we have, and then if some changes are needed, the way you go about it is not with some antibiotics or anything like that, but by enhancing your probiotic and prebiotic activities so that you get the right ones. And even for probiotics, yeah, I mean there’s some controversy out there, but the thing is these probiotics do have different actions even down to the strain level. So not all the lactobacilli are the same. Not all acidophilus species are the same.

So even strain by strain, they have different benefits and they produce different things. Some can actually have histamine promoting effects. Yeah, and people can get this sensitivity when they get certain probiotics. Whereas other people need more of a boost to their immune system, and they need that very much so they’ll take those probiotic species and they’ll feel great. It’s just that people haven’t figured it all out, and they’re trying to go black and white again to go quickly. Probiotics: good, bad. And doesn’t it remind you back to how we were talking about ketogenic: good, bad? Meat: good, bad? Or paleo: good, bad? We just want to hear that because it’s really easy to act on.

What I want to remind people of is that it’s not all good or bad, it depends, and it depends on your personal biology. The key is in personalization, and you can’t personalize if you don’t have the molecular level details to do it with molecular-level precision. We try to do that work for you, and hopefully, that helps.

 

[01:19:02] Ashley James: I love it. You said earlier before we hit record that your goal is to help people embrace complexity and do something good about it. Health is complex. You just totally threw a few listeners for a loop that some of them could have actually developed further histamine problems, meaning increase their allergy symptoms by taking what they thought was a very healthy probiotic. Everyone knows that we should all be in some form of probiotic. This is the thing that everyone says, be on probiotics.

I am quite fascinated because you brought me back to when my son was an infant and he developed food allergies. We were trying to figure out why, but we did have him on a bunch of probiotics and he started to express more of a histamine reaction. And I just wonder if that was one of the things? Of course, it’s never one thing only, like you said, it’s an accumulation of several things. But if we can look at a few hundred thousand pathways of the genetic expressions of our very complex microbiome that creates all of these pharmacy-grade chemicals in our body, some of which masterfully. Some of which help us to feel happy. Some of which help us to have healthy thyroid function. 

25% of our T3 is converted in the gut. 90% of our serotonin comes from the gut. We keep hearing these things from health experts, but you take it way deeper by going let’s look at your individual gut microbiome. 

Now you have so many clients now that you can see the metadata as they do, and I’ve actually had some listeners reach out to me and say I’ve been doing Viome for the last few years and they shared their experience. And my Naturopath, I came to her for my annual physical after I had submitted my results and I was looking forward to receiving them from Viome. She said, oh, Viome. Obviously, she didn’t mention their names, but she said I have had several patients who couldn’t figure. We did allergy testing, we did everything, and we went through all the tests that naturopaths have, which is so much more complex than most physicians because they’re looking at the body as a whole system. 

They couldn’t pinpoint, but Viome—your test—was able to get the person the different cases that she had, was able to help them get exactly the information they needed that they couldn’t get from other tests because you’re not looking at a food allergy or an immune response. You’re taking it to a whole new place that is not looked at from anywhere else. It’s quite exciting.

Coming back to the real-world application. If someone is tired, they have brain fog, they have the laundry list of symptoms that they’re not incredibly happy with—weight gain, the stress in the body like high cortisol, and fatigue. How much of that can be corrected by knowing what to feed your microbiome? How much have you seen corrected? Since you can look at the meta-analysis of so many clients, as they retest and as they share their results, what have you seen accomplished in people’s health as they’ve utilized the Viome results in their life?

 

[01:23:21] Ally Perlina: Well, it could be on a level of these pathways and microbial communities and how active they are, and it can also be in terms of the symptoms. Some of the common responses in terms of improvement that people see—besides the ones I mentioned about just mood, some of the pains and aches, and things like that—are sleep, brain functioning, and just overall energy. That’s another one I did not mention, but it’s energy, performance, stamina, and endurance. 

I’m not just talking about athletic endurance because we do have a number of really professional athletes that turn to us and they really like our program, but it’s more about actually just endurance of going through the stresses and burdens of life. Some people have it really tough and some people maybe have it even tougher with all of the COVID times, unfortunately. It just helps the body rejuvenate itself and protect itself, and some of that can come from microbes just simply making more of the short-chain fatty acids. That can help on even the epigenetic level and it can help reduce some of the inflammation.

And then other people, it could be more of the immune-boosting effects. Certain microbes can promote immune stimulation but in a way that you need it, not the inflammation to be lingering or anything like that, but the immune-boosting effects. And can promote epithelial cell turnover in the gut, which helps your gut lining be healthy. You seem to have a good gut lining, but certain communities of the microbes start to produce these nutrients that are basically like your B vitamins, vitamin K, and things that you may think you’re getting from your pills or your diet. But at the same time, when it’s made naturally in the gut from something that is already part of your biological ecosystem and it’s in that right place basically at the right time, then there’s nothing like it that you can just like swallow as a pill. 

So they can make antioxidants for you, which can then protect your cells, give your cells more energy, and that is something that you can even feel on the overall system level. Even some of the lipids and things that can enhance the functionality of your mitochondria and cellular membranes can also be promoted from the pathways that get turned on by a microbiome.

So back to the real world, it’s really just a number of different things that can be responsible for the success that we see. Even B12, we see a lot of that being produced by the microbiome. We see if there are glutathione and selenium pathways activated in the microbiome that can be part of the antioxidant theme. We can see if microbes are helping you detox in a way and help you mitigate any of the reactive oxygen species, which is part of the oxidative stress, and then we measure that in the blood test now with the Health Intelligence Service. That gives you that blood kit and helps you understand your stress levels and your mitochondrial health. Your mitochondrial health is actually pretty good, but it’s not perfect, so maybe you need a bit more of that boost.

Back to foods and supplements, you could see that you’re recommended some of the resveratrol, nicotinamide riboside, but it may not be good for everybody. For people who have high senescence, NAD may actually promote that if you also have high inflammatory pathways. But if you don’t, it may be great for you. 

Now if you take that and if you take some people to take Metformin just because they read something about it, but you may need to supplement as well with some of these polyphenols that nurture the microbiome and the gut lining and also have the anti-aging and antioxidant effects like quercetin, curcumin, and resveratrol. Because without it, you don’t know when some nutrient that is just like being buzzed about is good for you or it’s actually harmful to you. 

If you take things that inhibit some of these pathways, you may need to supplement with CoQ10 so you don’t deplete your energy because having too much NAD in a certain context without supplementing with CoQ10 may not be the most optimal mix for you. So that’s where we get to this whole next chapter which I’m sure we’ll talk about some more that I’m really proud of is the personalized supplements where we take the nutrient level precision even farther and give you your own personal blend with your name on it of exactly what you need and nothing that you don’t. Because there’s so much of the good stuff that can actually cause harmful mixtures for some people—but not others—that we want to actually simpli