Learn True Health with Ashley James

On Learn True Health, Ashley James interviews today's most successful natural healers. Learn True Health was created for YOU, the health enthusiast. If you are passionate about organic living or struggling with health issues and are looking to gain your health naturally, our holistic podcast is what you have been looking for! Ashley James interviews Naturopathic Doctors and expert holistic health care practitioners to bring you key holistic health information, results based advice and new natural steps you can take to achieve true health, starting NOW! If you are sick and tired of being sick and tired, if you are fed up with prescription drug side effects, if you want to live in optimal health but you don't know where to start, this podcast is for you! If you are looking for ACTIONABLE advice from holistic doctors to get you on your path to healing, you will enjoy the wisdom each episode brings. Each practitioner will leave you with a challenge, something that you can do now, and each day, to measurably improve your health, energy, and vitality. Learn about new healing diet strategies, how to boost your immune system, balance your hormones, increase your energy, what supplements to take and why and how to experience your health and stamina in a new way. Ashley James from Learn True Health interviews doctors like Dr. Joel Wallach, Dr. Andrew Weil, Dr. Deepak Chopra, Dr. Oz, Dr. Joseph Mercola and Dr. Molly Niedermeyer on Naturopathic Medicine, Homeopathy, Supplements, Meditation, Holistic Health and Alternative Health Strategies for Gaining Optimal Health.
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Mar 23, 2023

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Feb 17, 2023

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498: Rejuvenate Cells with Structured Water, Mario Brainović

Mario Brainovic, CEO of Analemma Water, is a leading expert on the astonishing science and impact of coherent water. He explains the overall benefits of why all living things should drink structured water.

Ashley James & Mario Brainović


  • Reversing cellular age through drinking structured water
  • Difference between regular tap water and structured, coherent water
  • Results of using Analemma Water
  • Using GlycanAge testing as an accurate assessment of your overall health and wellness
  • How to measure mitochondrial energy in the body
  • The correlation between the state of your microbiome and the state of your water


Hello true health seekers, and welcome to another exciting Learn True Health podcast episode. Today's finally the day I'm publishing the long-awaited structured water episode. I've been hinting about this episode in our Facebook group to our wonderful listener community and talked about it in a few episodes. I've been using this device since Thanksgiving with remarkable results. We get into that in the interview. But as I do with all these wonderful experts and companies I interview about holistic health devices and supplements, if there's something I want to try out and love, I want to share it and ensure I get a coupon code. So here it is, coupon code LTH as always. And you can buy yourself one of the structured water devices by going to water. That's water. Or you can look in the show notes of today's episode, and you'll see it right there in the description of this episode's show notes. Wherever you listen from, the link will be right there. So be sure to use the coupon code LTH to get your discount. 

I was shocked by the results that I got. This has been my favorite magic trick to play. It's a great parlor trick to play on your friends. Take the device, and use it for 1 minute on their glass of water. Pour two glasses of water so that they can drink the regular water first, and then they try the structured water that's only been treated for one minute with this device. It requires no batteries or electricity; you can travel with it. You have to be careful not to break it. But other than that, I've been traveling with it. I've been sharing it with my friends, and everyone is amazed. Make sure that you treat the water. For about a cup of water, you must use the device on the water for one minute. For me, I drink out of a mason jar, which is quite a bit of water that's close to 30 oz of water in here. I like to stir with the Analemma for a good 2 minutes. Just know that when you do buy one, the instructions say to use it for 30 seconds; don't do that. Maybe in America, we use huge glasses. This was initially designed in Europe, and I think everyone has 8 oz glasses there because all of us in America have 20 oz glasses or more, especially my listeners who are well hydrated and drinking out of 30 oz mason jars like myself, you need to use the device for about 2 minutes which is neat. As you stir the water with it, it changes the structure. All of the molecules line up in a way that becomes a coherent crystalline structure. Just watch as you're stirring it at a slow, nice pace, and in about 1 to 2 minutes, you will see the viscosity of the water change, which is the coolest thing, and then I know it's done. I just watched, and I could see the viscosity change. Then when you put it in your mouth, the water feels different. It tastes sweeter and feels different in your body. 

So I'm so excited for you to hear from one of the experts working with this company. And he also talks about the studies that they've published. They have crops and have huge yields just from using this water. Since this interview, I have done a little experiment where we've been feeding our plants this water. We do not get much sun up here in the Pacific Northwest, and are almost at the Canadian border. And here we are in the lowest amount of sunlight. My plants are going nuts. I have this big window where all my plants are, and they only get sun for a few hours because it's facing west, and there's an obstruction. So they only get about four hours of sunlight. Since I started Analemma water, they're growing. These small house plants are not supposed to be that large, but they have grown inches. So I've been watching them sprout up like crazy. It's been so cool to see that. 

And we talked today about how using structured water makes mitochondria function and makes the bacterial cultures in the soil and our body improve health. The cascade effect goes on and on. Ensure you use coupon code LTH because I want you to get a discount. But this device is affordable compared to all the other structured water devices. And this one maintains the structured water. So use it once, and the water is structured forever. Whereas other devices only temporarily structures water. It is really interesting. 

I know you'll love the science behind it, which we will dig into today. Please share this episode with all your friends who love to hydrate or who don't like to hydrate. Now they should because this makes water so delicious and changes its feel. It makes people want to drink more water. It's such a fun little tool to improve our health and the health of our pets and plants. They're coming up with systems for agriculture and noticing that when the farmers collect the seeds and reuse them, by the third generation of those plants, they're saying they need almost no pesticides and chemicals. The plants become so healthy that they require less and less of those things. Imagine how much we could impact the world if the whole planet did this. 

It's exciting what you can do for your health. The implications are exciting if we continue with this technology. So that's Use coupon code LTH, and come into the Learn True Health Facebook group so that we can chat about this as you use the device. I want you to know that if you don't notice a difference with it, it means you're not using it or stirring it long enough. I've talked to at least a dozen people, and when they use it for a good one to two minutes with their water, they notice the difference. So, that's the one troubleshooting thing I would say. If you already bought it, you've got to use it for at least one to two minutes in your big glass of water. In my case, it's a big jar of water, and I use it when cooking. I treat the water before making coffee or tea. Something so cool is that we noticed it changed the flavor. It made it more delicious. So there's something about it that's super neat. 

So, enjoy today's episode, come to the Facebook group, and let me know your thoughts. Let me know what your experience is with structured water. I can't wait to hear from you guys and wait for you to hear today's episode. 

[0:07:30.2] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I'm your host, Ashley James, and this is episode 498.

I am so excited about today's guest. We have on the show Mario Brainovic, the CEO of this fantastic technology that my husband and I have been using in our house for a month and a half now. It is our new favorite thing. My husband will only touch or drink water if this device has first touched the water. My husband is obsessed. He loves it so much. I do too. I got some of the water right here. I'm just so mindblown by what you've created. By the way, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for coming today, Mario. 

[0:08:22.0] Mario Brainovic: Thank you so much for having me, Ashley.

[0:08:25.9] Ashley James: Before we dive into you explaining what this is and the science and story behind it, I want to take a quick moment to share my story of being introduced to the Analemma. Your office reached out to me before Thanksgiving. I received an Analemma, and I was very skeptical. This concept of stirring something in my water for a minute, completely being transformed and restructured, and changing the magnetics of the structure on a molecular level all sounds too good to be true. I say in the show that I have a very open mind to try new things, but I'm also incredibly skeptical. So with my skepticism and open-mindedness, I said sure, why not. Let's try it.

Then a good friend of mine comes over, sees the box, and says, oh, you got one, too. I love mine. And I'm like, wait a second; I know people who have this? It turns out that I have friends who already have an Analemma, and they love it. They're using it in their water and seeing a big difference. I was like, oh, that's interesting. So I went and used it. When we first received it, I stirred water for a minute, took a sip, and I said, what is going on? No way. And so then I grabbed just regular filtered water, and I compared. I could not believe the mouth feel. The water completely feels different when you use the Analemma. It feels like all the molecules are lined up in your mouth. It just goes down smoother, and drinking water with no resistance is easier. It's the weirdest thing to say, but it feels silkier and easier to drink. It just goes down and has a sweetness, so it does change the water experience. 

We even took our Analemma to friends' houses when visiting them. It's been our new favorite health toy. Whenever we go for dinner or hang out with friends, we bring it and do this magic trick. Okay, give me two glasses of your water. We will stir this for one minute in one glass, and then you'll try to see which one you like better. Everyone loves the water and can't believe how different it feels. As I walked up the stairs today to get to the office for this interview, my husband said, “Make sure you tell them this is my favorite thing.” There's another thing he's been doing called phototherapy patches, but he goes, “This thing is amazing. Please tell them how much I love it.” Of course, I am going to tell him that. My husband is such a good sport doing all the health stuff I do. I've been introducing him to many things throughout the 15 years, constantly getting him to do healthy things. He is a good sport and dragged along with it. But now he will not let us drink water unless treated with the Analemma. It is so easy to do. It blows my mind. I fill my jars every morning and spend a few minutes stirring the water for the rest of the day. I'm standing there thinking, “How does this work?” I've seen the science and everything on your website, but I still need help understanding it. So I'm so excited to have you today.

The biggest thing I got excited about was the study that showed that drinking this water for three months reverses cellular age. So I can't wait to get into that. I noticed I had results when we started doing it right after Thanksgiving. Like everyone, the holidays are a bit stressful. This is our first holiday season without our father-in-law. My dad died fourteen years ago, right after Christmas, and this was the anniversary of his death. So there are just a lot of emotions going on around Thanksgiving. And during the pandemic, I had a child and lost her. So even though I did a lot of emotional work and healing, I had this low-grade constant sadness in my heart. I hadn't changed anything else at the time. Everything's been pretty much the same and with even higher stress because it's going into the holiday season. But three days into drinking the Analemma water, I did a check-in and realized that sadness had gone. It was replaced with low-grade joy and a sense of completion, happiness, and fulfillment. I can get upset and frustrated because I'm home-schooling a seven-year-old, and that's expected. But even when I am a little upset or frustrated and all these other emotions, I feel happiness beneath all that. 

Have you seen anything around your specific structured water affecting people emotionally? You also studied brain waves, so I want to get into that. Listeners can go to water to check it out and use coupon code LTH. By the way, thank you so much for giving our listeners a discount. I appreciate that. I'd love to understand how you came about discovering this. How does it work? 

[0:13:55.2] Mario Brainovic: Thank you for sharing your beautiful story. We are receiving so many stories from all over the place from people using it. Stories are remarkable, and hearing what this water does never gets old. To be honest, we all in Analemma feel that we are serving this water, not the other way around, when we realize its profound effect on all biological systems. We tested it on humans, animals, and plants; the results were always remarkable. We see that it is a blessing, and when you see it that way, you cannot own it. We are stewards of it and want to do everything in our power to get it to as many people as possible so that they can get the benefits. Not only that, we will go into all of the details. There are profound environmental effects of this water. We can catch up on that as well. I love how this water enriches whatever you expose it to. So I'm grateful to be part of this project, and I'm so happy when I hear the stories. All of the work that we are doing is beyond justified, so thank you, first of all, for sharing your story.

[0:15:22.9] Ashley James: Absolutely. I started this podcast because I suffered for so many years from health issues. Through natural medicine and good nutrition, I was able to reverse type 2 diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, chronic infections, infertility, and polycystic ovarian syndrome. And the doctor said you'll never reverse. This doctor said I would never not have the polycystic ovarian syndrome. I was told numerous times I'll always be on medications. Now I'm free from medicines and super healthy. I still have health goals, and I'm still working on myself, and I want to help end the suffering of so many people. So when I find something that is easy, affordable, and has profound effects, why not? I think we should all be drinking healthy water. 

I took chemistry in high school and loved it. I'm from Ontario, Canada, and at the time, we had Grade 13 in high school, which was the equivalent of a first-year university. I took OAC Chem, which was like first-year university chemistry. I remember understanding and learning about the magnetics of water and how the H2O molecules are very magnetic. And so, understanding that most people drink water through a bunch of 90-degree angle pipes, the molecules have become chaotic, right? So we're not meant to drink water that's been through the system it has been through. But even water straight from the ground isn't necessarily structured either. So I'd love for you to explain the difference between the regular tap water from the city and structured water.

[0:17:21.1] Mario Brainovic: Yeah, now we are getting into the whole magic of things. First, I would like to emphasize that most people aren't aware that 99% of our molecules are water. We are 70% water in mass but 99% in molecules. So that shows you immediately we are very clever H2O. That shows you there is something magical and extraordinarily important about water, and nobody talks about it. So as you mentioned, water at this point is everywhere, and we tested all kinds of water. It exists in the chaotic state of H2O. Molecules in water move chaotically. They crash into each other constantly. All of this happens at an atomic level, so nobody knows it. Two scientists, Dolf Zantinge and Dr. Eric Laarakker started working on it, and I joined the team a bit later. So we found a way to bring order back into that chaos.

I will explain the science of it. Since water is a broadband absorber, receiver, and energy transmitter, it will pick up the dominant frequency. So, however, colloquially speaking, you treat water, the vibration, the frequency, and the structure will form that particular structure. As you mentioned, water goes through a piping system, dramatically killing the water's vitality. So, we managed to create a dominant positive frequency in the water. This is what we call mother water. It takes one full year for us to create this special water and put it in a crystal vial. Crystal serves as a superconductor, but it's not there. So it creates a barrier between the mother water and the water you are swirling the Analemma through. But frequency-wise, it's like it's not there. Any H2O molecule that comes into close proximity to the mother water starts to mimic its exact structure. So then you have exactly the same water as the mother water inside the vial. Water enters this special liquid crystalline structure, and we call this full spectrum coherent state. So it's very different from the other works of several scientists who developed some form of structured water in various ways through a vortex, seeing through magnets, or using crystals. 

There are various forms of how you create a structure. But the main difference between Analemma Water and all these other structured water is its stability. With all the other structured devices we tested, water goes back into chaos within a couple of minutes in half a day with almost all of them. With just one treatment of Analemma, just one swirl in the glass of water, that water will stay in that very particular state virtually forever. So we have tested it for five consecutive years, and it always remains in a state of coherence. 

So that stability is where it's very special. This very particular structure has a profound effect on all biological systems. Now, I can jump into the remarkable studies we made. The fastest result you will have with this water is in brain waves. We did this double-blind study with identical and genetic twins because this is the golden standard. These two people are genetically identical, so we gave one twin regular water and Analemma Water to another. The doctor administering the test didn't know which one was which, and the twins didn't know which one was which, and we were observing the changes in the brainwaves. As soon as you sip this water, there is an almost instant change in your brain waves. The left and right hemispheres of the brain start to communicate much more efficiently, and there is an instant cooling effect on the brain waves, which is extraordinary to observe. We repeated the test a couple of weeks later and gave Analemma Water to the other twin to see what would happen. The results, again, were very distinctly the same. So your brain waves will change instantly as soon as you sip this water. So this is the first and the fastest effect or impact this water has on human biology, and then we can go into all of the studies that we did, the long-term effect of drinking water. It's really profound. 

Then we decided afterward to pick a test that would definitively prove that something biologically remarkable happens when people drink this water. So we were going about various tests, and we came upon GlycanAge. GlycanAge measures the biological age in contrast to chronological age. There are various other tests that you can do. But what I love about GlycanAge is that it gives you a pretty accurate assessment of your overall health and wellness. Why? Because through the state of glycans, you can see your immune system's state. Glycans regulate the activity of T cells. So T cells are the number one cells of our immune system. So whenever a pathogen like viruses, bacteria, or fungi invades our body, these cells are the ones who capture and destroy the pathogens.

So if your glycans are in good shape, you have a powerful immune system. The other thing about GlycanAge is that there are two kinds of glycans, pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory. This balance is crucial for overall health and wellness. Now everybody knows, and I know your audience is familiar with low-grade inflammation. It is the number one cause of any chronic disease we develop throughout life. If you experience changing glycans, that means your overall health is changing for the better. So we did the baseline test with everyone in this study. We measured their biological age, and I have just discussed the final score of all these. And then they just drank a liter and a half of Analemma Water per day without changing anything else in their world. They didn't change their exercise regime or diet, and we did another test after three months. In almost every single person in this study, there were between one and twelve years of biological age rejuvenation. Their whole system regenerated on a cellular level, which was remarkable. It clearly proved that when you drink this water, there are really powerful changes in your biology.

[0:25:44.4] Ashley James:  After only a few months?

[0:25:46.4] Mario Brainovic: Only three months.

[0:25:49.6] Ashley James: Many people will drink more than a liter and a half. I drink about 4 liters of water a day. 

[0:25:54.3] Mario Brainovic: And you can imagine what effect that would have on your biology.

[0:25:58.7] Ashley James: I feel it, and it's pretty amazing. My husband and I both feel it. So whenever our seven-year-old son asks if he can have some water, we hand him one, and he says, “Is this structured?”

[0:26:15.1] Mario Brainovic: I love what you mentioned. It's like, you cannot miss it. Once you take a swirl of Analemma through the water, you cannot miss the change that happens. Water enters this very special coherent state. And just like you eloquently explained, you cannot miss the change in the water. 

[0:26:34.9] Ashley James: You taste and feel it. A friend said, “I don't know if it tastes different, but why does it feel different in my mouth? Oh my gosh, this water is feeling different in my mouth. This is so weird.” You can exactly feel the change.

[0:26:54.6] Mario Brainovic: I can explain why. 

[0:26:55.1] Ashley James: Okay, good. Why? I thought it was maybe magnetics. But it feels like all the H2O molecules are lined up in a row instead of being chaotic. That's my explanation. 

[0:27:07.5] Mario Brainovic: Most definitely. You've explained it very well. But I would like to add that when you bring the water into a highly structured coherent state, the true power of water is unleashed. You can look at it like if you have a light bulb; it has five watts. It will give you some light. But if you have a 5-watt laser, it will drill a hole through your table. So laser is a coherent form of light. The true power of water is unleashed when you bring it to a coherent state. So our early studies were always on plants. There is this special method, a delicate technology that can capture light. Every living organism exudes light biophotons, and we have this device to capture every single biophoton. The more light you exude, the more vitality you have. 

In our early study, we had a big greenhouse in the Netherlands where we did many tests. We grew tomatoes that we watered with regular water and with Analemma Water. And we realized that tomatoes grown with Analemma Water exude 60% more light. They have 60% more vitality. If you eat that tomato, all that energy will end up in your cells. But then we didn't want to stop there. We wanted to see how that correlates with humans. So we did a double-blind, placebo-controlled study measuring the rise in ATP levels. We're talking about mitochondrial energy, or the energy in your cells. We used this method with luciferase. Luciferase is an enzyme that catalyzes light production in bioluminescent organisms. Due to its extraordinary sensitivity, we can measure the intercellular ATP level in animals and humans. And we did the baseline tests, and people again just drank a liter and a half of water a day without changing anything else in their world. After two months, we did another test, and there was a significant rise in ATP levels. So the entire mitochondrial energy in their body increased by over 20% just by drinking the water. 

So then, I can return to the studies that we did because there is a great correlation between all of our studies. We're very passionate about the quality of soil because this is a huge agricultural problem in the world today. The soil is almost completely destroyed everywhere, and they cannot revive it. They cannot bring it back to life. Then whatever you grow on that soil will not have the nutrients necessary. We took completely depleted, destroyed soil and watered one part of it with regular water, and one part of it was watered with Analemma Water. Nothing happened with the one we watered with regular water. Everything stayed the same. But there was a huge explosion in the biodiversity of the microbiome in the part we watered with Analemma Water. And so much so that the bacteria that exploded in the soil started to suck CO2 out of the atmosphere in the soil where it belongs. 

So the soil became fertile. You could grow any food on it again. This inspired us since the microbiome changed the soil. Let's see what's going to happen with humans. So we did a double-blind, placebo-controlled study where we measured the dysbiosis index of the microbiome. So dysbiosis index describes the degree of deviation within the microbiome, taking into account all the bacterial phyla and species and their Wayne factor. And we had an absolute improvement of 38% in the dysbiosis index of the microbiome just when people drank this water.

[0:32:02.0] Ashley James: Oh my gosh, this is blowing my mind.

[0:32:05.5] Mario Brainovic: In the last decade, there has been so much research in the connection between the state of your gut, your microbiome, with basically any area of your health — mental health, physical health. The state of your microbiome has a powerful effect on anywhere in your body. We proved that when you drink this water, the state of your microbiome improves significantly. 

[0:32:36.1] Ashley James: I interviewed Dr. Igor Smirnov in episode 161 several years ago. He's a Russian, and he has been doing studies for years on different structured water. Not yours, but structured water in general. What sparked his interest was that the people in Chernobyl who experienced radiation were sent to various hospitals. And one hospital, in particular, was up in the mountains, and an artesian well fed the hospital. And those people miraculously got way better than anyone from Chernobyl who went to another hospital. Russia was like, what's going on? Why is everyone getting better over here, but aren't getting better in every other hospital? And they finally figured out that their water was naturally structured in some way from the pressure coming from the earth. Of course, not everyone can access an artesian well up in the mountains. We need to figure out how to recreate that. That's what you've done in a very affordable way. I've seen these machines, and as you said, these machines not only keep the water structured for days and days. It's structured temporarily, and then it falls apart. These machines are worth $500 to $1,500. I've looked and seen it. But what piqued my interest was what Dr. Smirnoff said: they see antioxidants in structured water that were mopping up the radiation in these patients. I don't know if that was true, but it did something. Maybe it was because it was protecting the mitochondria. So I'd love to know, have you noticed, or have you had studies where you're seeing that structured Analemma Water has an antioxidant property?

[0:34:46.9] Mario Brainovic: I can tell you that the study of it is remarkable. Dolf Zantinge, one of Analemma's founders, was CEO of the largest Dutch telecom. So he's very familiar with the EMFs and the effects of radiation of EMFs on human biology. We did several tests with Analemma Water and 3G, 4G, and 5G radiation, and the results were really interesting. There are many effects, but I can speak of the one we thoroughly tested. So when you use your cell phone for two minutes, there is a profound chaotic effect on the state of your brain waves. We've tested and seen it every single time. But what we did was we gave regular water and Analemma water to some people after a couple of minutes of using the cell phone. Nothing happened with their brainwaves for the people who drank regular water. Their state stayed the same. Whatever happened, they stayed there. But as soon as people start drinking Analemma Water, as I mentioned, there is a cooling effect on the brain waves. The brain waves came down from the chaos into a coherent state.

[0:36:28.0] Ashley James: That was fascinating. When someone has this change in their brainwaves, what do they experience? 

[0:36:34.3] Mario Brainovic: In my experience, I can just share because many people wrote us, and we have a lot of testimonials from people. It's very personal. Every single person is unique, and they have their own unique response. So as you mentioned, you clearly shared your experience. We received so many various experiences from people. They all have their own path and experience with it, but every single time is extraordinarily positive. 

[0:37:14.5] Ashley James: Can you share some testimonials that stand out for you? 

[0:37:19.3] Mario Brainovic: There are a lot of them. We don't want to go into all the details because this has yet to be designed to treat and heal people. We were advised not to make health claims in that particular way. But I can tell you that many people had incredible physical, mental, and emotional results in various ways. When you drink this water, this water is in this very special coherent state. As I mentioned, 99% of our molecules are water. So we enter this very special coherent state. When your organs, tissues, bones, and mind where electromagnetic beams enter a state of coherence, effects will be experienced on any level. So it's just a matter of time. 

[0:38:21.9] Ashley James: Does it make water more conductive?

[0:38:24.2] Mario Brainovic: We had this really interesting experience. We developed this technology with one professor in Austria. So we asked him to create a device that would immediately show on the spot which water is which. During his research, he found this correlation between the sun and water. Water changes electromagnetically daily due to the sun's position towards the Earth. So water is an electromagnetic phenomenon; it changes. So we realized that the electromagnetic potential of water is anywhere between 150 and 300 millivolts. But when you swirl the Analemma through the water, that potential jumps up to 300 %. And that's very measurable. So, that's where you can see the difference. The difference is not just in taste, which ends our studies. We have done 15 studies up until now. So all of our studies confirmed that. But the whole energy about it is remarkable when you swirl this little stick through the water. It really changes dramatically.

[0:39:46.4] Ashley James: Why sell the Analemma device, which allows us to make as much water as possible? It's like teaching a man to fish instead of giving him a fish. You are giving us the tool that, for the rest of our lives, we can make all of our searches with water. It is very generous that you do this, and as I said, this is such an affordable device compared to all the other ones I've seen out in the market. So you guys are being very generous because you could have created your own Evian water, or an Analemma bottled water, from some source and structured it yourself because it maintains its structure. You could have sold it worldwide in bottles.

[0:40:27.6] Mario Brainovic: Just so you know, this is all intentional. So we are aware that we could put this five times the price and it will be sold exactly the same way. But we wanted to keep it affordable to almost everyone on the planet. Just like you mentioned, this is something that we are now exploring. We will bottle it, so if you are somewhere in the cafe and don't have your Analemma, you can order one and get it. But we wanted to make it affordable to people. 

Our mission statement is to make all bodies of water on this planet coherent. We have already developed technology that we can install in the wells of the biggest rivers. Because we know we've proven that the microbiome and the water would change, will enter this coherent state, and all the life down the stream would thrive. And not only that, but all of this water will enter the oceans, and then the oceans will become coherent. And then we would have a coherent planet. Just like our body becomes coherent, if all of the water on this planet, which is the earth's blood, becomes coherent, we are part of the earth. Even though it's not good for our business model, we don't care. The main thing is this water has the power to change the world for the better. So we're having these greenhouses issues and CO2, which we try to solve but cannot solve. But, as I mentioned, if we water the earth everywhere with this water, the soil's microbiome would change, and those bacteria start to suck CO2 out of the atmosphere.

[0:42:31.2] Ashley James: And into the soil, which will feed the plants, right? If you think about farming, we're having a massive global crisis because of the drought. But before the drought, we see that farming practices have contributed to the drought. They remove the topsoil, intended to keep the CO2 in the soil. It's supposed to be there to feed the plants. The decomposing matter creates CO2, which is supposed to be in the soil to feed the plants. So it's part of the fertilization cycle of plants. 

Because of the mass farming practices of the last hundred years, farmers scrape away the topsoil and turn the soil over, which we now know destroys the soil's microbiome and releases CO2, a fertilizer for the plant. It's supposed to be in there. And by turning over the soil, they're killing the microbiome. They're making a very artificial environment and then treating it chemically to force the plants to yield high. But because of all this, the water runs off and does not stay in the soil when it rains. And then when it gets hot, it is supposed to evaporate, creating more rain, right? So it's supposed to be that cycle, but it's runoff now. And so, then we have droughts globally. Then, we're cutting down forests to feed the cattle. Large forests, for example, help to make rain because it's how nature works. So with all that, we have removed topsoil, turned it over, and now we've affected how the earth makes rain, which has then caused drought.

This is just one contributing factor. But now, the farmers globally are having many issues, and we're not even touching the supply chain issues, diesel prices going up, and all those other issues that are compounded. But what we're looking at is the health of the soil needs to be re-established. Now this information is increasing, and farmers are saying, “Oh wait, I should do more biological farming. So, I don't turn and never move the topsoil.” So some farmers are trying to understand that is a better way to go. But right now, if they could feed the soil your coherent, structured water, that would immediately begin to revitalize the soil's microbiome. The healthy bacteria of the soil suck the CO2 back into the soil, feeding the good plants.

So it's all this beautiful dance. And I know you said we're part of Mother Nature. We came from the earth, right? The minerals of the earth are in us. We must remember that we drink water from the earth and we eat food from the earth. So the earth's health represents the health of our bodies. And I love that you're taking this globally. That was beautiful.

In 2004, I saw “What the Bleep Do We Know!?”. That's a great documentary. Everyone should watch it. They showed the studies with water that they did in Japan and how by simply

yelling at water or loving the water, or basically talking to the water or emitting an emotion at the water and then freezing it, they would see that the energy, the frequency of love, for example, would create these beautiful structures. And a frequency of hate would create these ugly mucky structures. But they did it repeatedly, and it would get the same result. 

My husband and I did it too. We got a bunch of ice cube trays, yelled at one, and loved the other. It was wild. We got that to see that little experiment in our freezer. But just the idea of simply expressing a vibration of emotion to water, that the water would hold on to it like a memory. It's like a hard drive for a computer; the water remembers.

[0:47:40.0] Mario Brainovic: It's incredibly like the computer, as you mentioned. Dr. Eric Laarakker, one of our founders, intends to prove that water is a bio-quantum computer. So, as I said, water is a broadband absorber, receiver, and energy transmitter. Whatever you send out to it, it will stay there. You mentioned the work of Japanese scientist Dr. Masaru Emoto. He was the pioneer that helped people understand that there is so much more to water than meets the eye. You mentioned your own kind of experiment. Do you know what he did that anybody can do? You take rice and put some water in it. He just expressed love to this jar with water and rice, and in the other one, he expressed anger or hatred. Just after a week, the one you express love to has this beautiful fermented smell, and it's completely intact. It has a beautiful smell, and you can actually eat it. But the other one where you said, I hate you, or you were angry at, started to decompose heavily with a bad smell. It's the same rice. The only thing that changed is our electromagnetic energy, which we focused on.

Dr. Masaru Emoto clearly explained the importance of kindness. As you mentioned, we are very clever H2O; when we are kind to each other, we send something, and that individual's water holds it. So whatever you send out stays there, which is profound. And there are many kinds of religions in the world. Like in Christianity, before you start to eat food, you say a prayer because that prayer profoundly affects the state of that food. And then we eat it. And then this food has a profound effect on our biology. 

I must mention one more study, which was an “Oh, my God” moment for us. In our early research, we were studying the effect of our water on seeds. So we took seeds, and we watered with regular water, and some seeds we watered with Analemma Water. Those seeds that we watered with regular water didn't exude any biophotons. They were just dead. There was nothing there. It would be just a flat line. But we started to observe this sinusoidal shape for the ones we watered with Analemma Water. So we began to see these peaks and valleys of biophoton emission. We were thinking, “What is this? What is going on there?” And we realized that it coincides with the tides. So we realized that this water connects you to the natural movement and rhythm of the Earth. So it moved with the tides. It opened our eyes that this connects you electromagnetically to something more significant. We always think like we're confined to this body. But when you drink Analemma Water, you get connected more profoundly.

[0:51:45.5] Ashley James: Talking about the prayer, that makes sense because, in prayer, you're bringing in gratitude and love. If you're being authentic with your prayer around the table or over your meal, you're exuding love and gratitude. And because your water on the table holds the memory of the frequency of the emotions, it can be influenced by the frequencies. Have you guys done a study where you've hated on water? Like, love was done with some water, hated on the other water, and then treated it with the Analemma. So after one minute of swirling the Analemma in the water, does that overwrite the hate?

[0:52:45.8] Mario Brainovic: We have yet to actually do the study because we have too much reverence towards water now. We don't want to treat it that way. But definitely, all of our research proved that water is going to react to the dominant frequency. That's why exposing water to the highest positive frequency is important. That's why prayer comes in. But we managed to create the mother water with an extraordinarily positive effect. As I mentioned, we try to push it into chaos in many ways but have yet to manage to. So we radiated it and did all kinds of things with it, but it remained stable. So that's where it's incredible.

I can tell you one more thing. It is actually progressive. What we did is that we watered tomatoes with Analemma Water. We took out seeds, replanted them, and we did this for three generations. After three generations, these tomatoes almost don't need any pesticides. They become so resilient. I always invite people to do the test by themselves. If you have Analemma already, or if you buy it, you have to buy two basil plants. I did this, and it's remarkable to observe. So anybody can be a little scientist. You water one basil plant with regular water and one with Analemma Water. After three weeks, you cut their water supply. What's going to happen after two days is the one watered with regular water is just going to shrivel down completely. And you can see the difference in the basil plant watered with Analemma Water. You will clearly see the resilience of the plant. So if you just put a couple of drops of Analemma Water into it, it will return to a hundred percent vitality. And the one you watered with regular water will have difficulty bouncing back.

We received so many emails when people used Analemma Water on plants. People tried to grow a plant in their apartments, and they changed or shifted spots and couldn't get plants to thrive. But when you use this water, you are assisting that process in a remarkable way. I can tell you one interesting thing. During the GlycanAge study, since we realized the correlation between water and the sun, we asked all the participants in the study to expose the Analemma to the sun every now and then. This lady has this small meter-by-meter or a bit larger kind of garden, a very short plant. And so, in the middle of it, she put her Analemma daily. After a month, she sends me a photo. It's like you drew a circle around the Analemma. All the plants grew an inch and a half taller than anywhere else. So it was tough to ignore if you knew what it meant. This is the effect it has on plants.

All of our studies clearly showed the great correlation between any biological system. So whatever we proved on plants worked exactly the same on humans. I have another amazing anecdote. For many years, we used this big greenhouse to test our water. So one Dutch farmer picked up the whole greenhouse and continued using the water. So he started to grow this particular kind of cucumber. And this kind of cucumber always gives fruit ten to twelve weeks within a year, and that's basically it. Now, he's at twenty-four weeks to grow. Usually, it gives yield, it gives fruits ten to twelve weeks, and then it cannot anymore. Then you have another cycle. So he doubled the cycle. 

Now, we are actually creating because we know that if we're going to change the world, we need to change the agricultural system and we need to change the food people eat. So you are definitely aware of this. But you know, spinach had 80% more nutrients fifteen years ago than now. So you have to eat five or six times more spinach just to have the same amount of nutrients you received from spinach ten to fifteen years ago. We really want to change this. So now we developed an agricultural system for Analemma Water and are investing a lot into studies. Farmers are only interested in two things: shelf life and yield. But we want to prove that if they use this water, they will have a higher yield and a longer shelf-life because the fruit's vitality will be higher and stronger. As a result, everybody will get healthier food, which is our goal. You know when you eat cucumbers, fruits, and veggies, you will get that vitality and nutrients. 

Just to come back again with this study that we did on soil, the microbiome change, and the mineral retainment. So you mentioned that all the minerals go out. When you water the soil with Analemma water, all the minerals stay in the soil. And then the plants can pick up those minerals and nutrients, and it all ends up in the fruit. So one of the powerful avenues we are exploring and investing a lot in now is agricultural studies. We have irrefutable proof that when you use this water in agriculture, you're not going to just exponentially increase the nutritional value of the fruit and the energy of the fruit and veggies. But you're also going to increase yield and shelf-life.

[0:59:43.9] Ashley James: Absolutely fascinating. I had a guest on my show who's an organic farmer in California. I will definitely hook you guys up. He would be totally interested in joining your studies. He has acres and acres of fruit trees and all kinds of amazing organic stuff that he does in Northern California, so I'll definitely be hooking you guys up. I want to make sure we stay in touch. I want to know about your studies around farming. I think we need to change something. 

I saw a video the other day. It was speaking to both sides of the political spectrum. Globally, people want to “stop global warming” or “stop climate change.” They are really concerned about this. And then, there are other people who just want their nine-to-five job. I just need to survive. I just need a paycheck. I just need to get through. I just need to protect my family and earn money. I'll do whatever I need to do to help my family. I'll push the button that makes more black smoke go into the mixer pollution and the world, as long as I can get a paycheck to feed my family. And so, we have these two groups of people clashing, and the speaker was talking to them. But he was talking a little bit more to the people who want to end pollution. I see both sides. I'm standing in the middle going, I want to end pollution not because of anything political. I want to end pollution because it's horrible for our health. It's horrible for our children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and the health of all the amazing animals. 

We are supposed to be stewards of this land. If you take the Book of Genesis seriously, we are supposed to be stewards. We are supposed to be here to protect this land. We were gifted this land. The Book of Genesis is in many religions, not just Christianity. But if you think about it, we are stewards. We're either going to destroy this world and thus destroy ourselves. But at the same time, I completely understand those people who just need to pay the bills or feed their children. Because currently, millions of children are dying of starvation and malnutrition. And it is horrible. So this man says to these two groups of people, “We are not going to solve it by fighting. We will solve it by creating new technologies and advancements that will solve these problems in a way that solves both people's problems.” We need to make technologies affordable for the person who's starving of malnutrition, whose daughter and son are starving of malnutrition. We need technologies that will heal the water, the soil, the land, the sky, and our food supply and make it affordable so that the millions of people who are sick and suffering or malnourished will have access to this. And then when we do that, these technologies that we create will heal the planet and help to heal malnutrition. 

So he makes this big 3000 ft view. It's like, we need to stop fighting and start advancing technologies that heal the planet. And what you have is the technology that will help heal the planet because it will make it so that agriculture doesn't have to pump thousands of tons of chemicals into the water supply. If you say within three generations of this tomato plant, they don't need pesticides. If it heals the soil, making the microbiome of the soil come back to life, so now we don't need to pump a bunch of fake chemicals for fertilizer or pesticides. We can have these plants and soil within a few growing seasons just by structuring the water. We don't have to add any more chemicals. 

[1:04:17.7] Mario Brainovic: I agree with you. And not only that, as I mentioned, if all the rivers and bodies of water become coherent, everything is part of one ecosystem. What happens there doesn't happen over here. No, whatever happens everywhere happens to every single one of us. That's why I love what you just mentioned. We are people, and we are fighting. We are in a chaotic state like the H2O molecules are now. But if we learn from the water, when we join hands like H2O molecules joined hands, the true power of water is being unleashed. So when we unite in one mission, we can heal the world in one generation. It will not take more than that.

[1:05:11.5] Ashley James: I love your vision and the work you're doing. I am obsessed with the Analemma. I feel so grateful that you guys reached out to me. And I've just had so many confirmations that this was the right thing, seeing that friends already had Analemma and were using it. My husband and I, our son, and everyone we've introduced it to have noticed the difference. 

I introduced Analemma to one of my engineer friends, who is like this amazing Tesla-genius level. He said, “This makes water wetter. This makes the water more absorbed into my cells. So there's something about the charge. Can you speak about that? Does it make water wetter or better absorbed into cells and the body?

[1:06:20.3] Mario Brainovic: As mentioned, the true power of water is being unleashed. So when you drink this water, you bring much more energy through your cells. And we did this double-blind, placebo-controlled ATP level study, where we measured the rise in cellular energy. So your entire body's cellular energy increases by over 20% within two months.

So there is a phenomenon happening in your body. More energy is absorbed. Not only that, people had various experiences. You will start drinking less if you don't need as much water. If you need more, you're going to start drinking more. Every body has its own kind of rhythm. But you find coherence within yourself. This is what happens. And I also mentioned this seed study where you become electromagnetically part of this larger ecosystem. We are one planet. We are one being. And when we start to live that way, everything is included, and nothing is excluded. And then there isn't going to be any conflict, and we will be able to solve any problem this planet has.

[1:07:49.1] Ashley James: I love it. Awesome. I know there must be something proprietary about this, but can you tell us or teach us about the mother water you described as being in the device too? Can you explain how you created it or came about discovering it? Again, I don't want you to share it. I'm not asking for proprietary information. 

[1:08:13.2] Mario Brainovic: I can't share too much. I can say that we are not using vortexes, magnets, electricity, or crystals in that particular way. We have a very particular system, as I mentioned. It takes one full year to get it. It's all mechanical processes, and there are several phases in which we go about it. And when you go through the last phase, the water enters into this very highly structured, coherent state that it doesn't come out of it.

[1:08:49.3] Ashley James: Love it. Reading about the device and how to use it, it says that it will maintain that charge, and definitely, this is something you could pass on to generation after generation.

[1:09:04.3] Mario Brainovic: Yes, you have to take care of it very much because it is fragile. So if you drop it, it will break. So you really have to take care of it. We will be coming out with the whole house Analemma, so we have already developed it. It will come out very soon. So you can install it in the piping system of your house, and all of the water you have in your house will be coherent. Because we have incredible results and people are returning to us, we will study bathing with it. When you bathe, just stay in the water for 20 minutes, and they have phenomenal results. So if you fill the bathtub with it and lie in it for 20 minutes, the results are extraordinary. So we will do a study on it to have science behind it, and it's not just anecdotal. 

But that's one of the ways; you don't even have to use a whole house system which will be coming out very soon. You can jump on the website, and you can jump on the pre-order system because we are still not out with it. But then you can install it in the piping system of your house, and all the water is coherent. And I'm telling you, you will see results when you shower with it or bathe in it. 

[1:10:29.2] Ashley James: You can cook and garden with it if you have a hose. 

[1:10:31.3] Mario Brainovic: Everything.

[1:10:34.0] Ashley James: I have a friend, and we brought it over to her house and showed her how to use it. She got excited, and she bought one immediately. And then she goes, “Okay, so how do we make it so it comes out of all my pipes?” I also have a friend who was already lined up to buy it. I contacted your office, and they told me that you were in the process of coming over the whole house system. And she is probably your first customer to buy it. She's all lined up and ready to go. I could see the benefits of it. 

I understand that lawyers have told you not to say things that sound like you're treating anything. I respect that, and I don't want you guys to get into trouble for saying that people get healed from the water for anything specific. But could you share any anecdotal stories about bathing in the water?

[1:11:35.1] Mario Brainovic: We have to keep with this water is not intended to heal or treat. But I can tell you we received so many results in many ways. Some are extraordinarily fast, and some take a bit of time. But the results are awesome.

As I mentioned, our studies are done on healthy people. So we always have to do studies that prove that even when you're healthy, your health gets even better. With the studies we already did, we proved biological age, and we proved the ATP levels where your body's entire energy increases. We proved the state of your brain waves and the microbiome. We will go into other studies because we already know the inflammation and everything. So we are going to do many studies. But as I mentioned, we don't want to go into any healing effects of this water. We don't want to claim, and we don't want to say anything. This is just water, as God intended. Let's just go that way.

[1:12:47.3] Ashley James: You're not claiming it's a medical device, which is important because you don't want those restrictions put on. 

[1:12:55.5] Mario Brainovic: No, this just changes the state of water and profoundly affects biology. It's in the area of general health and wellness, and that's basically where we are sticking to. So we are not going to claim anything else. If you start using the water, you will have your own personal experience with it. If we mention the whole tub experience, you'll already know since the skin is the body's largest organ. And then, since this water gets absorbed intensely and much more powerfully, all this energy ends up in your cells. And not only that; there were people who actually carried Analemmo, even though we told them not to do it because it can break, they carried it around their necks and had incredible results. 

As I mentioned, when this lady put her Analemma in the small garden, you see its effect. Because a lot of people asked us to, we are going to start creating pendants. So you have it in a crystal, drop-shaped small container. It will have a mother water inside, and you have it around your neck. It's near your heart area, and you know the heart pumps blood all over. We will also do some studies to prove that if you wear this, it will have a special effect on your entire biology. But as I mentioned, we always stick to general health and wellness. So we've proved that you will have awesome results when healthy people wear it. 

[1:14:53.7] Ashley James: I love it. So speaking of plants, I don't know how to describe plants, but in my kitchen, the window jets outwards, and there is a ledge with two shelves to put plants. So it's like this little solarium that jets outright by the sink. So I can look out, I can see the sky. It allows me to see more and have all my plants. We live in a townhouse that doesn't get any sunlight at all, except for this one window. And so, all my plants are huddled there, and then we have a little patio courtyard with all my plants out there that can withstand more extreme temperatures. Although we live north of Seattle, it doesn't get that extreme. But that's where we also place the Analemma, right above the sink, right by my plants. I also have been feeding my plants Analemma Water. And since doing that, one of my plants doubled in size. I don't know what it's called, but it's a cute little plant that has been an inch and a half tall forever. And then now it's huge. I thought Analemma was helping a bit. It could be because it's springtime. I don't know; it's not even springtime yet. It's January. So it's getting the least sunlight and has doubled in size in the last month and a half. So, that's interesting. I'm just trying to think about how my plants have been reacting since I've kept the Analemma there and kept feeding them the water. 

My mother-in-law had a houseplant that was just limp, yellow, and almost dead. She would throw it out, and I said, give it to me because I like reviving plants. I don't have a big green thumb. Most time of the time, I kill them. But I just want to see if I can revive it. And I fed it with Analemma Water and put it outside in the sunlight. So within a few hours of feeding it the water, the leaves poofed back up. 

[1:17.4] Mario Brainovic: Yes, that's the effect. Analemma has a powerful impact. I love what you did with it. People worldwide send emails with pictures of what Analemma did for their plants. 

[1:17:19.3] Ashley James: I wonder about pets too, like people with fish tanks with plants in them. I think aquariums would want to use it, and also dogs and cats. 

[1:17:33.1] Mario Brainovic: We will now do an extensive study on animals. We already know that the results are there. We tested so many times. But we're doing the proper study to document all the effects. And we will also create a water feeder for dogs and cats so owners can buy and pour the water in. Animals will get all the benefits. So the biological age of the animals is the number one thing. So we already know that there is a profound effect on biological age.

[1:18:12.5] Ashley James: So your pets will be with you longer and won't be as geriatric. 

[1:18:21.9] Mario Brainovic: Exactly. It's the overall health and wellness of the animals and their lifespan. 

[1:18:26.9] Ashley James: I love it. Thank you so much for coming to the show. I want to ensure we touched on all the important information you came here to share. Is there anything else that you want to make sure you share today?  

[1:18:39.9] Mario Brainovic: Jump on our newsletter because we are constantly doing new studies. That's the way you can follow our progress. I would love to come to your show again when we do more studies to share because I love to share with people like you who are dedicated to bringing light to the world. 

You could choose to do anything with your life and your time. And you decided to bring health, healing, and the best of the world to people. I admire that. Thank you so much for doing it because you are becoming a beacon of light. And we need to make a network on the planet. Then we are actually contributing, exactly like you were doing. So, thank you for that. 

[1:19:38.5] Ashley James: Absolutely. Thank you. I'm going to own that beacon of light for the world. You know, I suffered for so many years, and then I was able to reverse that, and I wanted to end the suffering. I want to help and spread this information. That's why we call it Learn True Health because we learn that this whole level of health is out there that's not being taught. This is true health. We have access to true health, but we have to almost unbrainwash ourselves from the mainstream media, Hollywood, all the junk out there, all the processed food junk out there, and the culture that says eat a pint of ice cream. Go drink a bottle of wine if you're stressed out, or your boyfriend broke up with you. If you feel bad, go to the gym and exercise for twelve hours because you don't feel good about your body. It's just like, where is this love for your body? Where's this balance? Where's the true healing where you can move your body in a way that brings you joy, and not because you're not moving your body because you feel guilt or shame, right? How about love? Why not do things just because you love your body? There are just so many nutrients out there that will heal disease. 

One of my mentors did a $25 million federally funded study in the 60s and 70s, where he discovered the cause and cure for nine hundred diseases that cross species lines. He discovered the cause of cystic fibrosis and muscular dystrophy and then was blacklisted from all research institutions that get money from big pharma. That's when he became a naturopathic physician, helping and healing people with food supplements and nutrition. He helped me see that we've been fed many lies since we were infants, even starting with just formula. 

Now, I love that there are formulas for most mothers who can't nurse. I couldn't nurse. But we were told as mothers, when formula came out, that it was more nutritious than mother's milk. And now we know that is wrong because mother's milk is a probiotic, is the child's immune system, and is so protective of the child. I'm glad the formula exists for those who need it. But to convince women that it was better than nature, that same tactic has been used against us for everything: from food, from how we view our body to how we view health; that chemical man-made thing is better than nature over and over again. And so true health and Learning True Health is about uncovering the information you share today that will allow us to reclaim our health, transform our temples, transform our bodies as God intended, and be truly healthy. 

So thank you so much for doing the work that you're doing. I love that it has the potential to transform the planet and transform our lives. Blessings upon you. I am so excited about your work, and I can't wait to have you back on the show, especially when you have more to share about the studies you're doing about bathing in this coherent, structured water and agricultural studies. I'd love to have you back for that as well. I'll make sure I hook you up with my farmer friend, who was a guest on the show. I know he'll be interested in this. 

It has been such a pleasure, Mario. So let's stay in touch, and thank you again for coming on the show and sharing with us today. 

[1:23:33.7] Mario Brainovic: Thank you so much for having me. Let's stay in touch. I'm going to send you everything that we're doing. We're constantly doing a lot. So I will send you all of the studies that we are doing and thank you for being the beacon of light that you are and for sharing the relevant information exactly. I love everything that you just mentioned. So we need to return to the natural ways of health and not get diluted by all the information coming out. We need to return to the natural sources of health, and water is one of the important ones. Thank you for having me. 

[1:24:21.8] Ashley James: Wasn't that an amazing, mind-blowing episode? I am so excited for you guys to try the Analemma and see how you like it. They have now launched the ability to sign up for the home system pre-order on their website. I can't wait to get my home system because I want to bathe in this water. I want to know what this feels like. It feels so good drinking this water. I have taken the Analemma, held it to my heart, and held it close to my body for a few minutes. I'm very in tune with energy, and I can feel it. I feel so good. It's almost euphoric. I really feel good when I'm holding it to my body. It's structuring all the water inside me. 

My husband juices daily, usually celery juice with lemon or lime and ginger. And then sometimes we will add beet, carrot, or cabbage. But most of it is celery. If you've ever had celery juice, it is kind of gross. It's not my favorite of all the juices. After juicing, he stirred it for about two minutes. It was a big jar of juice. He stirred it for about two minutes with the Analemma and then said, okay, try this. And, oh my gosh, it changed the flavor of the juice. It tastes amazing. It's not because of stirring it vigorously but because of the device. So we've done this several times with our juice, and it's so delicious. There's something about it. Our body loves it. I cannot wait to bathe in the structured water and see the results there as well, shower in it, take that hose, and use it in the garden. 

So the system they're selling for $1,800 gives us a 10% discount. The coupon code is LTH. So, you could use that home system, and your entire house, garden, and everything would have access to it. So you don't have to stir your water anymore. Now everything coming out of every faucet in your house is coherent, crystalline structured water. It's really exciting. I can't wait to hear the effects from listeners, especially the bathing, the idea of getting all the skin benefits, and how that will help people. And then, of course, the garden. If we double our yields and the results we get in the garden, it will really make it worth gardening. It's just amazing to get delicious fruits and vegetables every summer. 

So thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for sharing this episode so we can help as many people as possible to learn true health. Go to and use coupon code LTH and get the Analemma for yourself so you can structure your own water you cook with and drink. Also, sign up for that pre-order for your whole house unit. After you try the Analemma, you'll say it really works. I can't wait to experience it for my entire house, and it's also a sneaky way to get into the rest of your family, right? You don't have to do anything. You just hook it up to your house, and then that's it. Anytime we can add something that improves our health without having to think or do something, it is so worth it. Awesome! 

Thank you so much for listening, and stay tuned for the next episode, which will be with Dr. William Davis. It was amazing. I just finished that interview today and can't wait to publish it. That will be episode 500, and that's the testimonial episode. So, please get your testimonials in. You can record them on your phone and shoot me an MP3. I'd love two to five minutes of you sharing what changes and improvements have been in your life because of the podcast and the guests. I'd love to hear your testimonials. It might not seem like a big deal to you, but for the listeners who are suffering, it would mean so much to us to hear stories of hope and inspiration and to hear stories where people have improved their health. So if my podcast has made a difference in your life, please share that with me. You can either write me an email. I would love to hear an actual MP3 of you talking. Don't worry about sounding perfect or being perfect. It's not about being perfect. It's just about being yourself, and everyone will love it because hearing the results of how you've improved your health can cascade and can ripple out and help many other people. We want to help as many people as possible. So please email me at with your testimonial so I can include that in that episode. Thank you so much, and have yourself a fantastic rest of your day.


Get Connected with Mario Brainović






Feb 12, 2023

Check out Chef Mark Reinfeld's upcoming courses and online culinary trainings:

Phototherapy Patches:

To work with Ashley James and try the phototherapy, Go Here:
In the Menu, click Work with Ashley James

The Best Coherent Structured Water Device:

Use coupon code LTH at


Online Health Coach Training Program:


I love IIN; the Institute for Integrative Nutrition is where I took my Health Coach Training and where you can transform your life and become an Integrative Health Coach!

The whole program is online and designed for busy people, so anyone can do it!


Free 7-Day Holistic Doctor Course by Ashley James:


Join the Learn True Health FB group:


Ozone Machine:

Listen to episode 484 for more info on why and how to use ozonated water made in your home for energy and mitochondrial function:


High-Quality NAD Brain Supplement:

Use coupon code LTH at


Listen to episode 460 about the benefits of high-quality NAD on cellular function, energy production, and mitochondrial health:



Sunlighten Sauna - the sauna Ashley uses, loves, and recommends:

Be sure to ask for the listener special!


Listen to episode 245 to learn from the founder of Sunlighten Sauna as to why this sauna is the best tool for your health journey:


The World's Most Effective Magnesium Soak:

Use coupon code LTH at


Listen to episode 294 to hear Kristen Bowen share her story of recovery and discovering the world's most absorbable form of magnesium:


Ashley's Favorite Spirulina and Chlorella:

Use coupon code LTH at


497: Healing Deliciously: How To Nourish Your Life Through Food

In this episode, Chef Mark Reinfeld teaches us how to make plant-based healing food to prevent cancer and other diseases. He will also discuss the benefits of using food as medicine, which can benefit our overall well-being.

Ashley James & Mark Reinfeld


  • Holistic Doctors Make Healing Delicious
  • Nourish Your Life Through Food & Living Beyond Cancer
  • How to take healing foods and make them so that your kids want to eat
  • Benefits of increasing nutrient-dense foods in your diet
  • How to make plant-based foods taste good
  • Marinating a Portabello mushroom with balsamic
  • How the Doctor and the Chef works


Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of Learn True Health Podcast. 

We have such a fun episode today with Chef Mark Reinfeld. He is a whole food plant-based chef, and he married an amazing woman who is a naturopathic physician. Together, they marry holistic medicine using food as medicine and all the science behind that, with delicious culinary recipes. How amazing is it that we can nourish our bodies and use food as medicine to heal every cell in our body and bathe every cell in nutrients? 

I have been doing this podcast for seven years. March 1st will be the 7th anniversary. But way back in the day, I interviewed an amazing doctor on his deathbed, and basically, the doctor said, your liver is in absolute failure. Go home to finish your will and say goodbye to your loved ones. Your life is over. And he sat there on his hospital bed, ready to pack up his stuff to go home and die, and he thought to himself, wait for a second, I understand how the liver works. I know how the body works. And he just got this vision. There are over 37 trillion individual cells in your body, and here he is about to die. He's thinking, every cell in my body is like a house. My body is like a county. Your body is like Manhattan with all these individual homes; each home is a cell. There are certain things every single cell needs. It needs to bring in the groceries and take out the garbage. And something's gone wrong on a cellular level for my body. My body is not bringing in the groceries and taking out the trash.

That very simple idea is what he went home with. And he goes, how can I help my body? And what did he have to lose? He was dying anyway. Then he said, okay, I'm going to do everything I can to support my liver to decrease inflammation because inflammation is like when there's a big hurricane, and now there's a flood around your house. The groceries can't get in, and the garbage can't get out. That's what inflammation is. It's a flood around your cells, not letting the good stuff in and the bad stuff out. And there's an order to things. So he got rid of the flood between every house in his body, and then he started to bring in the groceries and take out the garbage. He supported all three systems in his body, including the different detox pathways. And he lived for many years, went on to write many books to all the doctors' amazement, and to helping other people heal. And I love that image, which has always stuck with me. 

This is what our guest today does. He helps you make mind-blowing delicious food that helps the body bring the groceries in and take the garbage out. Anytime you can make it healthy, easy, delicious, and fun for you and the whole family. That's a big win. So you don't have to be vegan or want to be vegan to listen to this episode. Our chef today teaches using a whole food plant-based diet. Everyone can benefit from increasing nutrient-dense foods in their diet. Doctors show, and it has been proven in many studies, that increasing antioxidant and polyphenol-rich foods in your life can prevent cancer, decrease many diseases, and improve outcomes. Plus, it brings so much flavor with all the spices and herbs in healing the body.

Mark is here today, and he's going to share with us some amazing recipes and ways of thinking about eating and adjusting your life so you can get in even more nutrition, more nutrient-dense foods, get those groceries in the cells, and take the garbage bags out of the cells. Mark is about to launch two courses. He's also working with other holistic doctors; one is called Living Beyond Cancer. We talked a bit about that; the other one is called Nourish Your Life, and both sound delicious. 

You can go to to see more information about Mark's upcoming courses. They are starting very soon, so if you're interested, you'll want to jump right in and check them out. That's And of course, the links to everything will be shown in today's podcast at as well as whatever podcast directory you're listening to us from. You'll be able to go into the show notes of the description in this episode, and you should be able to find those links. 

I have had such an amazing time since I published the last episode. On the previous episode if you hadn't listened to it, I said, hey listeners, if you want a call with me, you want to talk about the phototherapy patches, then sign up for a free conversation. I have been slammed from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. talking to people, and it's been amazing. So many of the listeners are trying the phototherapy patches, and now the listeners are reporting back to me who bought them because they got on them and we are getting some incredible results. There are some testimonials about getting thyroids to come back online. There's a very easy protocol for detoxing the thyroid and then turning the thyroid back on with the stem cell patch. In talking to some other practitioners and looking at the testimonials, I'm seeing that women in as little as three weeks are needing to go back to their doctors, get tested, and needing to be put on lower medication. And in some cases, completely taken off their thyroid meds in as little as three weeks. Now, any improvement from something that supports the body's ability to stimulate, the body's ability to heal, is amazing. The glutathione patch increases glutathione by 300% in 24 hours. The stem cell patch boosts stem cells in the body, turning on thousands of gene expressions. We are seeing some tremendous results. 

I've got these people reversing osteoporosis and osteopenia. People are gaining muscle. People are healing concussions, like chronic concussion post-concussion syndrome. They're seeing that their brain is coming back online. Brain fog is going away. The stuff is returning back to normal. I have seen great things around anxiety and sleep. For me, my energy is through the roof. And now I'm leaving just a bucket of sweat on the gym floor because I'm pushing myself so much harder because I have the energy for it. I have this abundant amount of energy that feels just like childhood. This is the kind of energy that I've been wanting. Have you ever just sat around the saddle and looked at kids or grandkids and go, where do they get the energy from? And then remembering when you had abundant energy like, oh I wish I felt that way. Well now, I feel that way, so I love it. And if you want to try it, I'd love to help you. I'm just in awe of the results we're getting, and I'm having so much fun helping the listeners. We've had some amazing conversations. I've connected with some beautiful people who are like friends for life now. 

So if you would like to chat, go to, and click “Work with Ashley James” on the top. The first option is the free photo therapy session where we'll have a conversation. It says it's 15 minutes, but most of these phone calls have been longer because of all the questions people have, and I am totally fine with that. I've been adding a little time in between the calls just in case they go over. So bring your questions to me. I'd love to chat with you. And if you're shy or you just don't have time to chat, because my schedule is being booked up pretty fast, and you want to talk sooner, you can always email me at I'd love to chat and help you. You could also message me on Facebook. You can come to Learn True Health Facebook group at to find us. Come join us and talk to me. I'd love to hear from you. 

And get on those phototherapy patches. There's a money-back guarantee. For me, I love things that are no risk. And I figured out the way you can order these packages to get the best benefit. It saves you $70. I'd love to help you make sure that you order the right patches for the right protocols, and also save the most money because I'm all about saving money. I have purchased over a hundred different holistic things in the last ten years, and I love experimenting. And you know, it's the spaghetti test. Most things are pretty amazing, and in the things that aren't, I want to get my money back. So I love that this company stands behind its guarantee, which is awesome. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about. Together, we are helping people to end needless suffering; so that holistic medicine can bring them health and vitality. Sometimes it just takes a little shift in the right direction, and the body is going to take over and start running with it, and I want everyone to have true health. 

That's what we're doing here today. So take what Chef Mark says, as a sign to try out new vegetables, try out new flavors, and try out new things. Look up certain foods, spices, and herbs that nourish and heal the body, and see how you can play around with them. He's got some amazing books, and we talked about recipes. If you want to learn how to conquer your kitchen and own it, you'll definitely want to take some of Mark's classes. You can do that by going to 

I promised in the last episode that this episode would be about structured water. I apologize, but stuff got turned around. People made requests, and I'm publishing this episode. So you're just going to have to wait one more week, and then I will publish the water episode. The structure of our episode will blow your mind. It's awesome. So watch out; you'll want to listen to the next episode. And without further ado, enjoy today's episode. 

[0:11:19.7] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I'm your host, Ashley James. This is episode 497. 

I am so excited about today's guest. We have with us an amazing vegan infusion chef, Mark Reinfeld. It's so good to have you on the show. Our good friend, who's been in the holistic health space for many years, introduced us. And what I love is Mark has such a talent for taking plants and making them amazing and so delicious. He teaches how to take healing foods and make them, so your kids want to eat them; they taste so good. What I also love is that Mark not only has a partner for life in your wife but because she's a naturopathic physician, you guys partnered together in business. And that gives us such an incredible compliment because there are so many doctors out there, and I've read lots of those healthy cookbooks for the doctors trying to come up with the recipes, and it's like something horrible. Their information is sound, but they tell you to eat plain oatmeal or whatever. It's just so gross. Whereas you take your amazing culinary skills and then couple them with your wife's wonderful information on using food as medicine. And together, you combine that so that people can heal their bodies while still enjoying the food on their plates. 

It was so funny because yesterday, my son was eating something; I can't remember what it was, but he goes, why is everything healthy for me taste bad? That's just such a funny thing. He was parroting what we often say, like, drink this medicine or aloe juice. And then he paused, and he goes, it doesn't taste bad. I like it. But he chooses to eat raw vegetables. I cannot cook him a vegetable. If I steam him some broccoli, he looks and goes, what did you do to my broccoli? He just wants to eat plain raw food. I can't even use these tools to make things taste good. 

But we have Mark here who has all these skills, and I want to hear your ideas so that all of us in the kitchen can spice something up and add something to our dishes tonight. So I'm not saying everyone has to be a vegan, but everyone can benefit from adding more nutritious foods. And you're here to teach us how to spice it up, so welcome to the show. 

[0:14:09.2] Mark Reinfeld: Thank you so much for having me, Ashley, I'm excited to be here. 

[0:14:13.2] Ashley James: And I hope that after today, I've learned some tricks that I can take to the kitchen, and my son will never say again, why is my healthy food always have to taste like this? He knows the buttons to push on our kids. It's so funny how family does that. And then he sits and eats it all anyway, so I know he likes it. But I want to make something taste amazing, and I know you can help us. 

And what I also love is what's coming up, and I want to make sure listeners know about it. You are launching two courses with your wife on February 15th and 16th. One is called Living Beyond Cancer. So we'll get you to talk more about that because nutritional oncology is coming into this and setting your life up in the kitchen to maximize the healing for someone facing cancer and recovery. And then you also have Nourish Your Life, which is soon being launched, and just taking these principles of using everything you put in your mouth as your healing, but also doing it in a way that's just so delicious. 

You've been a chef at restaurants, and you have won awards. My friend raves about you. So I'm very excited to have you on the show today. So before we jump in and learn some tricks in the kitchen from you and about your wonderful programs that are coming up, what should we know about the life of Mark, this vegan chef? What should we know about you to be oohed and aahed? 

[0:15:57.3] Mark Reinfeld: Well, that's a great question. Plant-based cuisine has been my passion for many years, to show people how to make plant-based foods taste delicious. So, a lot of times, we could learn about how important it is to include more plants in our diet and not know how to go about it, or sometimes the food just doesn't come out that good. For me, if the food doesn't taste good, no matter how much intellectually we might know how important it is, I don't think you can make those long-lasting changes. So for me, it's one of my missions to show people that everyone has the capability within themselves to create food that tastes good and they enjoy. And so I've been doing that for decades. As you said, I've worn many hats, from running a restaurant to writing several cookbooks that we can talk about to running the kitchen at major vegetarian festivals. So, I've been around the block for over 25 years in this field. I love sharing what I have picked up along the way with others. 

[0:17:15.7] Ashley James: I love it. Didn't you run a restaurant in Hawaii?

[0:17:22.7] Mark Reinfeld: We did. I went to Hawaii for a two-week vacation, and we wound up

staying there for eight years. So it's one of those longest recorded two-week vacations in history, and a group of people turned an internet cafe into a vegan cafe. And I have had several years of consulting and menu and recipe development experience. So when I landed, it was the perfect storm, and we opened the Blossoming Lotus Restaurant on Kauai shortly after I arrived through our mutual friend, who was also involved in the restaurant. 

[0:18:00.6] Ashley James: Since you're so good at menu creation, I was hoping you could create for us a Learn True Health podcast menu that we can make in our kitchen for people who might be afraid of cooking vegetables, afraid of bland food, and maybe even have some picky eaters. So what is super healthy but delicious that we could whip up for beginners?

[0:18:27.9] Mark Reinfeld: For our listeners right now?

[0:18:31.5] Ashley James: Yes, just something at the top of your head. Please think about the first thing that comes to mind that's easy to make but delicious. 

[0:18:38.8] Mark Reinfeld: Pestos are the first things that come to my mind and are one of my favorite things to make. They're really easy to make. There are a lot of fresh herbs, and you can use garlic and green onion. I like spicing it up with some chili peppers or crushed red pepper. And those could be over either a simple roasted vegetable dish or with noodles. So we'll talk more about my go-to meals, which I call a monk bowl. This is also through our friends who shared that with me many years ago, using a combination of a green and a protein. You could whip out these simple meals. And if you have this lovely pesto sauce, it's a winner.

[0:19:25.9] Ashley James: So, I am oil-free and gluten-free. And what I like to do when I make pesto; I learned this from one of my friends because she has a gardener husband, who often brings or harvests too much arugula, if you can imagine too much organic homegrown arugula. But there it was. They could get quite spicy. And so he's harvested these pounds and pounds of arugula. So she took arugula and some of the nuts you put on this thing. What are they called?

[0:20:08.6] Mark Reinfeld: Pine nuts.

[0:20:09.9] Ashley James: Pine nuts, thank you. She only did a few pine nuts. She did a lot of arugulas, some raw garlic, a few liquid aminos, nutritional yeast, and then some pine nuts. But not a lot of pine nuts. She blended it like crazy, put it in jars, and kept it for so long that it fermented. It was delicious, and it lasted for a while in the fridge. But we would take that, scoop it, and slap it on our bowls. So that's my favorite pesto. But see how it's so easy. You can do pasta with basil, but you can also do it with other herbs. You can play around with it. But, as you said, play up the spiciness, and that's fun. 

[0:20:56.2] Mark Reinfeld: You could also do an oil-free pasta. I like to put some avocado in there too. That gives it some of that oil. And it's one of the ways that I encourage people to get creative and break out of the recipe trap by viewing recipes as templates or the underlying formula. With the pesto like you mentioned, you could replace the basil with arugula, or you could also use parsley or cilantro. So there are tons of ways to make pesto.

[0:21:28.0] Ashley James: I sometimes hit that wall where I'm just burnt out. I have a great selection of things in the kitchen, but I get stuck in that trap where I repeatedly cook the same few meals. What is a great unique recipe, maybe from one of your books? We can talk about your books. What's a great recipe that shakes it up and gets people out of their food routine where they got burnt out?

[0:22:02.4] Mark Reinfeld: That is a great question, too. Depending on the type of dish, I like getting creative by using a seed and a nut crust on dishes. You could do an encrusted portobello mushroom. I like doing it with tofu cutlets, where you could use things like macadamia nuts or hemp seeds to make these flavorful mixtures that could then be added to give that texture of a crunch to different vegetables and tofu as well. So the super firm tofu is my go-to for that. 

[0:22:41.7] Ashley James: I love it, and I love that idea of a portobello because I like marinating portobellos with balsamic and then roasting them in the oven with other vegetables. They've got a flavor that a Portobello will absorb. This was way before I became plant-based. A vegetarian friend once told me she ate a portobello mushroom at some event. It was like a vegan wedding. She goes, that portobello was marinated like it was steak. She said it was so delicious. And she talked to the chef, and they did marinate it as if it were steak. So they chopped up some onion, garlic, and all these herbs in a balsamic and wine and had them all soaking in there. I don't know for how long, but as long as you would marinate a mushroom. Then they roasted them or grilled them, and it was just mouthwatering.

My husband, a meat eater, just woke up about 5 or 6 years ago and said I would never eat meat again. It's just that something switched his brain, and I would have lost that bet. If someone had told me when I met my husband that he'd one day not eat meat because that's all he ate and he hated vegetables, he just switched like 100% overnight, and his personality went from 100% meat. He will tell a joke about vegans all suddenly becoming one. And so I had to learn on the fly because I cook all the food in the house. I had to learn how to cook this way. On day three, I served him something, and he said this tasted so good. He goes, vegetables taste so good. If you had told me that this would taste as good, I would have quit meat years ago. It has worked for him. In the show, I don't like pushing any diet dogma. I believe in using food as medicine. If you can find healing by introducing more nutrients into your diet, that's great. And so we look to power couples, like you and your wife, where you're combining medicine and culinary skills to help enrich our health through making delicious food. So I've put you on the spot long enough.

[0:25:01.6] Mark Reinfeld: That's good, and I'm reflecting on it also. One of my really big tips is to create global spice blends or to utilize global spice blends, which is a big part of vegan fusion cuisine, which is my cooking style. And so, it could be as simple as purchasing the Caucasian mix, Ethiopian mix, or Moroccan mix. There are a lot of pre-made spice blends, and I love sharing how to make global spice blends that open the door to a whole world of cuisine for people. So if you're in a culinary rot, getting familiar with some of these spice blends, you could turn simple stews and soups into this whole array of world cuisine. So that's another one of the ways to break out of a routine.

[0:25:54.0] Ashley James: I have never actually gotten into Ethiopian food, and everyone kept telling me to try it. So I bought some Ethiopian spice blend and put it on plain potatoes from the instapot. I cut up some potatoes, steamed them, sprinkled them, and was blown away. I've never had these flavors this way, and it's interesting how the spices overlap with India. Because of the spice trade they were creating, there's that overlap. It wasn't curry. But there's a bit of overlap with some of the same spices they used in Indian food. But I loved it. I love that idea. In America, we are so used to doing more Italian or BBQ. But then, jumping over to two different cultures and trying their herbs, you could cook the same food, like potatoes, add those herbs, and bring it up to a whole new level. Or sometimes, eat steamed vegetables, then sprinkle some herbs on them. It doesn't have to be super complicated. Sometimes I'm just in a rush, and I throw a bunch of vegetables in and steam them, and then I can choose whatever spice blend to sprinkle on top, which changes the whole experience. 

[0:27:16.3] Mark Reinfeld: Yup, it's one of my big tips. 

[0:27:19.2] Ashley James: So, as you and your wife have worked together, can you tell us how that has worked in terms of helping people reclaim their health? How does the dynamic of a naturopathic physician and a chef bringing their skills together work?

[0:27:40.7] Mark Reinfeld: We formed our business called The Doctor and The Chef, which makes sense given she's a doctor, and I'm a chef. It's like pairing plant-based cuisine with natural remedies and plant-based nutrition, and it's like a return to the origins of medicine. As you said, food is medicine. You touched on it earlier by saying a doctor alone can tell you what to eat and maybe why to eat it. But combining that with the chef, who has decades of experience, can create the flavors people enjoy, making it sustainable. That's what we love doing, as we like taking people from wherever they're at from the beginning. So in our course, we start with me pointing to the kitchen. That's where the kitchen is. And then we get to the kitchen and the knife; this is the sharp end of the knife. So this is where you hold the knife. So we start with background zero and then guide people to make these changes stick. So that's what it's all about for us. Food is a core part of what can bring us health, mental clarity, and energy. And so, utilizing the principles of plant-based nutrition and making it taste good is the absolute winning combo.

[0:29:14.3] Ashley James: Has your wife ever been into plant-based nutrition? She's a doctor, so she's got to look at the science behind it, right? So tell us a bit about how she decided as a doctor that this is the best way to help people heal. 

[0:29:29.4] Mark Reinfeld: She has a unique journey. She went to a naturopathic medical school in Portland, and they are not so much into plant-based nutrition there. In her studies and reading, she realized the importance of plant-based foods and the phytonutrient and creating a healthy microbiome. And there are also other aspects of why people eat more plant-based. And so, it's the combination of her nutritional knowledge, understanding, and other beliefs surrounding preserving the environment. So when we met, she studied for years to get her doctorate and then realized I needed to learn how to cook. I need to know how to make the food, and that's what my calling has been. That's how she came to it. And then realize the importance of showing people the need to reclaim our health. And a big part of that comes from learning how to prepare our food. It's wonderful if you have access to prepared food in your community or good restaurants that you can order from. But nothing compares to the kind of love and attention you could put into creating your own meals, and you could decide how much salt to put in. So, things like that help control your health.

[0:31:10.5] Ashley James: You're making a good point that most people eat takeout or go to restaurants. I have a form that all my clients fill out when they start working with me. It asks what percentage of their meals are home-cooked. I very rarely ever see where it says 100%. Most people are between zero home-cooked meals, and there are a few people who say I eat 100% take out, then there are some people who go; even though I eat at home, I'm eating one hundred percent packaged pre-made foods. I have to open a can to eat or microwave something from the freezer. And then some people say, okay, about 75%. So it's rare that I even get someone saying 90%. Then usually, when I start talking to them, they usually realize that even though they wrote down 90%, it's more like 50% of their meals are eaten out, like every morning it's Starbucks and then breakfast sandwich, and every lunch is Subway sandwich. So, that kind of thing, like wait, I'm only eating seven meals at home a day which is my dinner, and then half of that I'm bringing home takeout. 

It really adds up, and I think we have a blind spot. Like when we stopped looking at our bank account. Have you ever done this in your life at any point? There are a lot of people who are responsible for their bank accounts. But have you at any point, maybe when you were a teenager or in your twenties, don't look? And if I don't look, there's money in there, and we don't get in touch with the numbers. So when we go unconscious of certain areas of our life, like going unconscious with our finances or going unconscious with our eating, that's when drama happens, right? Like you've got drama from bills or drama from health because we are eating more and more processed food even though we may not admit it to ourselves. 

And with the problem with processed food, especially eating at restaurants, you can attest to this as a chef and someone who's run restaurants. The restaurant owners are not bad, but they don't think about your health. Like, I've got to make sure I select the highest quality oil, and I have to make sure I pay the most for this organic produce that's locally grown and the most nutritious oil. They're thinking about the cheapest oil possible, especially because prices have doubled for restaurants and the cheapest GMO pesticide-filled foods, and then they put oil in everything. You get rice from a Mexican restaurant, and it is covered in that very cheap oil, and it's very unhealthy, and we know now it causes cancer, right? This is where I had to have a little come-to-Jesus talk with myself last year. You don't see the chain of custody even when you're ordering out and think you're making good choices. You don't know the quality of this food if it's GMO or not, or if it's organic, or talking to be organic if the restaurant doesn't say it's organic. And then, on top of that, it's covered in these low-grade, low-quality oils. So anything that isn't you cooking from scratch, you don't know the chain of custody, and the quality is just not there. That's filled with pesticides, and we don't know.

[0:34:50.7] Mark Reinfeld: Agreed. 

[0:34:51.8] Ashley James: It comes back to, we need to arm ourselves with really quick, simple, delicious healing recipes so that it is almost as easy as ordering takeout. It's like a door dash. It seems more complicated than just dashing into the kitchen and throwing something together this delicious. We need that. But when we start to feel better, we understand why it's so important. Then committing to 15 minutes in the kitchen every day, or 20 minutes in the kitchen every day, then that's like, okay, now I can be on board. We got to start shifting over to increasing more home-cooked meals. So I love that it's what you're doing because I've had doctors tell me this: I can't come home with you and get you to do these changes yourself. I could tell you what to do based on your lab results, based on the science of the studies, but I'll see you in six months, and good luck. But you're taking the patients, and you're like, alright, here's a chopping block, and here's an onion. Let's get going. 

[0:36:08.3] Mark Reinfeld: Definitely, yeah. We have two kids, so quick and easy is my mantra in the kitchen. I want to get the meal done in 20 minutes, and as you know, the books are called The 30-minute Vegan, and there are four books in the series. So for years, that's been a priority. And never more than now, with two kids and a pretty busy lifestyle, it's all about minimizing the dishes and maximizing the flavor.

[0:36:39.3] Ashley James: Many people think the word vegan means healthy, and it isn't. There are a lot of unhealthy vegan foods. I talked to many clients who said, ” Oh, I was vegan, or I was vegetarian in the past, ” and it made me worse. Way back when I was a teenager, I tried to be a vegetarian. The word vegan didn't even exist in the 90s. As far as I was concerned, it was vegetarian. I tried to be a vegetarian a few times, and each time within a month, I'd gain weight. I was feeling horrible. And I thought I was making the right choice because all I was doing was eating fast food without meat. So I was eating pizza. And I knew that dairy was not good for me, but I was like, pizza is vegetarian, and that's healthy. This is coming from a sixteen-year-old who wants to try vegetarianism. And I tried to get it at nineteen and twenty. But every time, I got more and more unhealthy. So then, that means eating meat is healthy. But I ate way more processed food because I lacked culinary skills, so I switched over.

Many people think vegan isn't healthy, and it doesn't mean you're healthy. So what you're doing is helping us learn how to include super nutrient-dense foods into our lives in a way that will be incredibly healing for us. I'm going to put you on the spot again. I'll prepare myself to take a deep breath. Since you have two kids, what recipes do you have that are kid full proof? What are some excellent, go-to recipes for anyone with a picky eater or kids?

[0:38:42.0] Mark Reinfeld: I'll share that. I want to comment on the going vegetarian thing. A lot of times, that is the case when people say they went vegan or plant-based, and it didn't work for them, and on further inquiry, they became pastatarian, and they were eating a ton of pasta, and Oreos or vegan, for instance. So that's an excellent point. And as far as kids, one of our sons will eat anything literally. Like he'll eat fistfuls of cooked spinach, our other son will contemplate a grain of rice from six different angles before he eats it. So I put him in the picky eater category. And for us, it's trying to discover what works for him. It's like a balance of the mental health side of it, to not wanting to put pressure on them or have the dinner be stressful. He happens to love the way I cook tofu. So I do a simple marinade with tamari and a little oil. You can leave the oil out and roast it at 375 for about 20 minutes; he loves eating that. The vegetable that he does like is steamed broccoli. It's just discovering that he does like his hummus sandwiches. Like your son, he likes raw vegetables. He's comfortable eating half a dozen cherry tomatoes. So as parents, we're just trying to nurture the foods that he does want to eat and do our best to get the good foods in. He likes avocados too. So we're fortunate in that there are some healthy foods that he does want to eat. But you probably know the hiding trick, also. So if your kid doesn't like avocado, and if he likes peanut butter and jelly, you could get a thin layer of avocado under the peanut butter. There are ways to sneak the food in, and that's our strategy. I wish I had more to share.

[0:40:58.7] Ashley James: No, that's great. I like it. I have snuck some things. My son is almost eight and is open compared to other children. But I've made some fun things. He's allergic to avocados now, which is sad because he loved them when he was younger. But who knew that somebody could develop an allergy to avocado? I used to make avocado chocolate pudding, and you can also do the same with yams. You know those yams that are nice and orange, right? And I would bake them till they're done being baked. And then, take the skin off and throw it into the food processor with some plant-based milk and some date syrup or stevia maple syrup. The maple syrup is my favorite because it gives a little smoky flavor or the date syrup. You don't have to put a lot because the potatoes are already sweet. You don't have to put in a lot at all. You could try it without, and then just put organic cacao powder and blend that. And you do not need to put in a lot of plant-based milk at all. I blended that like crazy, and then I would serve him bowls of this for dinner. And he's like, hahaha, I get chocolate for dinner, and I'm like, hahaha, he's eating an entire sweet potato, the entire yam. But he likes it as it is anyway. But it's so much fun. If you want to blend some gentle greens like spinach, it is really easy because it's such a gentle flavor to mask in there. 

I used to make “ice cream” in the summertime, where I'll take frozen fruits and a little bit of coconut milk from the can so it's nice and thick. I'll blend some greens with the banana and the blueberries well, making this wonderful, rich sorbet. That's, of course, with the vitamix except it's green. That's how I do it with spinach, kale, or whatever. But I can't do it on kale because it has a distinct flavor. But I get lots of greens in there. And then I'm like, look, it's mint ice cream. Yeah, it's fruity, and he eats it. It's a great way to sneak the vegetables in as well. He always likes it, but if sometimes I overdo the vegetables, he looks at me like, this is more green than usual, and he now knows. He knows I'm getting more vegetables in him. But he will readily eat a bowl of raw vegetables. He'll attack the kale on the way home or sometimes while we're still in the grocery cart. He'll sit in the grocery cart and start eating the kale before we have even paid for them. We're going to be paying for them. It's by the bush, not the pound, so it's okay. But he'll attack the raw leaves, so I feel blessed. But he is also a picky eater. Roasting vegetables is your friend because it can get super delicious, easy, and quick. So that's a lot of fun. 

Now, you talked about microbiomes. Your wife is interested in helping people build their health from the ground up, knowing that gut health is the most important thing. Do you have any recipes she encourages her patients to use to build a strong microbiome?

[0:44:39.4] Mark Reinfeld: Her main suggestion is variety. So we do an exercise to see how many different foods you can eat in a week. And that, from her perspective, is one of the best ways to create a healthy microbiome.

[0:45:03.3] Ashley James: Love it. Is that a variety of cooked and raw? How did she go about bringing that up? 

[0:45:09.6] Mark Reinfeld: It could be cooked and raw, and it ties into the question that you also mentioned about the kids doing superfood smoothies, and our kids love that too as a great way to get nutrients and a variety of ingredients in. So we put some of the superfoods like hemp seeds and chia seeds. So we do maca powder and other greens to get both varieties in starting our day. So that's the other one of my recommendations, along with the spice blends, for how people could get started using those superfood smoothies.

[0:46:00.7] Ashley James: Love it. Yeah, you can ramp up the smoothies. I've had Green Smoothie Girl, Robyn Openshaw, on the show before, and I've been on her show. She was sick. It was in her early twenties. Since she had a child that failed to thrive, she remembered what her grandmother had done. This is like, did they even invent blenders back then with her grandmother exactly doing concentrated drinks with vegetables? This was before the word smoothie was even created. And she remembered hearing the story about what her grandmother was doing, and it helped her. So intuitively, she went to the kitchen, threw vegetables and fruits into a blender, blended it, and just started drinking it. Her child, a young toddler, saw her drinking this and wanted it. And then she's like, oh, I don't know. So she tried not to give it to the kid to see what happened. And the kid's like, no, I want this. And she's like, okay, like reverse psychology on the toddler. And the toddler loved it. And so she gave it daily to her toddler, and the toddler went from failing to thriving fully. And she got her health back. 

All her children and the whole family grew up having these green smoothies. But the variety of what you put in it is essential, like just rotating everything. She raised a bunch of kids, and the first thing she did before she cooked dinner was chop up a ton of different vegetables, make a big vegetable platter, and just put it on the table. And I love this idea, especially for teenagers. It's like when you're hungry when you come home from school or work. Imagine if there was just this beautiful vegetable platter, with some other dips already made for you, and you could sit there and snack. Even though some of her kids ended up rejecting healthy stuff, wanting fries instead, and being picky eaters, they all would snack on and graze on all the vegetables. So by the time she was finished cooking, they had all gotten a bunch of vegetables in them. 

So, I tried this with our son, and it works. I tried this with my husband too. So I would chop up a bunch of carrots and all the kinds of raw stuff and put it in containers and a timer on the go, and I'm like, grab your carrots. 

[0:48:36.9] Mark Reinfeld: That's a wonderful idea. That's great. 

[0:48:38.9] Ashley James: Grab your carrots and celery sticks. It's just great because sometimes we'll be going out to run errands, which turns into an entire day out, especially when I go grocery shopping. I'm hungry and tired and don't want to sit and cook. I want food now. The worst habit to get into is running your errands and then using that as an excuse to eat takeout, especially if you've gone through all the trouble to buy all this healthy stuff for yourself. So always have freshly cut vegetables put away and prepared for you, and then grab them on the go, especially just apple slices sometimes. We will snack on them in the car and between our errands, and then we'll feel really good and be energized. And I'll likely want to cook a nice, big meal when we get home from all the errands or running around. So just these little tiny habits such as taking a few minutes can save you a ton of money because eating out is expensive.

[0:49:42.7] Mark Reinfeld: Grocery shopping when you're hungry is off. My wife can always tell when I will pick up all these random items that I normally wouldn't, because I was hungry when I was shopping. So that's a good tip.

[0:49:58.5] Ashley James: We're like hunter-gatherers, right? So we're just hunter-gathering in the grocery store. And of course, if you're hungry, that part of your body is like I'm just going to gather more. Whatever it is, I'm just going to gather more of it. My wallet has definitely felt bad, so you had to eat before you go grocery shopping. That's a good one. So you guys have been teaching people for years how to transform their habits in their kitchen to heal their bodies. Now you got these courses coming out, and I want to touch on both of them, but Living Beyond Cancer is near and dear to my heart. My mom died of cancer. One of my best friends died of cancer. I've seen so many people, and I also know people who have survived. Not to be so grand, but I've had several friends who beat cancer. But I've seen the amount of suffering that people go through and how important food can play a role in their healing. So tell us about your course that's coming up. What led you guys to want to pair with an oncologist to create this course? 

[0:51:09.2] Mark Reinfeld: It's a deep topic that is not to enter lightly. My wife lost her brother to cancer, and I've lost family members to cancer. Dr. Robert Ellis is a board-certified medical oncologist and integrative medicine specialist. He's a third-generation oncologist. His grandmother was an herbalist who specialized in it. And so he's been in practice for 30 years. The course is focused on remission and survivorship. So it's really geared towards maximizing and enhancing life when you're in remission and during survivorship. He actually took a course of mine several years ago in Portland, and he recently retired. We created a course together for continuing medical education. He's part of the Oregon Society of Physicians, Osteopaths, and Surgeons. We did a CME course together, where he would lecture on plant-based cuisine for half the day, and then we would take the doctors and nurses into the kitchen. I would show them these simple tools that I share on how to make the food taste good. So that's how he reached out after he retired, and wanted to work together again. 

Ashley and I developed this nourish program, and so we thought to combine forces to create this program, Living Beyond Cancer. Basically, it uses all the recommendations from the American Society of Clinical Oncology in the National Institute of Health, and also the recommended lifestyle modifications of MD Anderson on survivorship. A lot of it relies on proper nutrition. So the course focuses on the first pillar of plant-based nutrition which is what Ashley and I specialize in, and Dr. Ellis has had a lot of success bringing in the other pillars, which are mindfulness and exercise. He likes to say that the way to maximize survivorship is going from the couch to the kitchen to learn how to cook. The couch to the cushion to create some form of mindfulness and stress reduction practice, and then the couch to 5K where you build up, to where you could walk up to 5K. So we're really excited and honored to be working with Dr. Ellis, and it is a matter that's near and dear to our hearts.

[0:54:19.1] Ashley James: That's brilliant. So listeners, you definitely got to share Living Beyond Cancer with all your friends and family who are battling cancer or who are on the other side of it and now rebuilding their bodies after battling cancer. It's such a juggernaut. I have had many interviews with holistic health professionals, including oncologists who kind of gone rogue. I've had at least one oncologist who had his license taken away because he was too busy helping people cure themselves and not radiating them. So you always want to find the doctors who are being mavericks in their field while getting results because the status quo is not good. The survival rates are not acceptable. I want 100% success and the body has an amazing ability to heal itself, and we've seen that. There are outstanding results you can get, but you have to go outside the conventional system to get them. Even just outside of North America or I should say Canada and America because in Mexico, there are a lot more choices there, but out in Europe they use treatments in their hospitals that science has proven to work and oncologists are not legally allowed to use them here. So why would a country not let doctors use therapies that are not drug-based, are cheap to administer, and have incredible results that do not harm the patients? And yet only allow them to do surgery, radiation, and drug-based therapies that have horrible side effects. And speaking with an oncologist, she said that chemotherapy has a 2% chance of giving you a different kind of cancer, like leukemia, for example. If you want any kind of chemotherapy, and I'm sure it's different between each one, but just across the board, that's two out of a hundred people. At first, it doesn't sound like a lot, but it actually is a lot. Because if there is a 2% chance that there's a bullet in the gun that you're holding to your head, you're not pulling the trigger. I don't care if it sounds like a little, but two percent is a lot. And yet there are natural treatments that are incredibly effective, that have no negative side effects like causing other cancers, and they are illegal to use or administer for the oncologist to even give out here in the United States. So it is a for-profit industry. We're being censored to the point of not being given all the information in the mainstream. That's why I do what I do to spread this information. But hospitals in Europe are doing treatments that are not being allowed to be done here, and they're doing them successfully. It just breaks my heart to think of how many grandmas, moms, dads, and brothers are suffering, because they go to the oncologist and the well-meaning oncologist who wants to help are limited in what they can offer you because of the way the system is setup. They are limited in what they can offer you. 

So here we have, putting the power back in the hands of the people. You're doing Living Beyond Cancer. But, of course, that is giving them the tools to slowly build their life back and get walking and heal themselves, decreasing stress and increasing nutrients from their food. So this is good. 

I saw it over and over again when one of my friends battled cancer. It's a long story, but she battled it for a long time holistically, and she ran out of money, got too tired and tried chemo and radiation, and died almost immediately from that. But she lived for quite a while doing it. She lived with it for a long time. And then the radiation just puts holes through her body. I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy. But she noticed that on the months that she was stressed out, all her numbers would get worse and her tumor would hurt, and it would grow. Then in the months that she really focused on eating healthy and exercising, just like walking in the woods, and decreasing stress, all her numbers would get better because she got blood work every month. Her tumor would shrink. The inflammation around her tumor would go down. Her pain would go away. It was just remarkable. One stress that would happen, and it was, boom! Everything would be just like losing a fraction of all the good stuff. So, stress is such a huge role and so is your nutrition. It plays such a huge role. So I love that you addressed that in your course. 

[0:59:40.7] Mark Reinfeld: He is like, you have your personal mission, and I have mine. Dr. Ellis has devoted his life to helping people navigate this landscape. He is a really amazing individual. Every time I talk to him, I'm inspired, specifically by this survivorship. And looking at the recommendations from major health institutions like MD Anderson, this fits with the recommended lifestyle modifications. So it's not like a fringe type of thing. These are things that major organizations recommend. And we're just really honored to be able to work with him to bring some of this information out.

[1:00:33.1] Ashley James: The major holistic alternative therapy treatment centers are out there. I'd love to have him on the show. I'd love to pick his brain. Definitely set that up; for sure, it's so cool.

[1:00:50.2] Mark Reinfeld: Yes, definitely. He'll light you on fire. He's very inspiring.

[1:00:55.2] Ashley James: Nice! We'll do that. So those who are listening and want to take a course, Living Beyond Cancer, and work with an oncologist that will light them on fire and get them super excited and take all the steps to healing their body and learning those tools, you want to check that out. The links to everything we're talking about today will be on the show notes of today's podcast at and in the podcast's description, wherever you're listening from.

The next course is Nourish Your Life. This is similar to the first one and not for people overcoming or rebuilding their bodies after cancer. So who is Nourish Your Life for? 

[1:01:35.5] Mark Reinfeld: This is for anyone who wants to incorporate more plant-based foods into their lives but needs help figuring out how to do it. So we developed this course, as I mentioned, for wherever people are at. We meet them where they're at. We do a 90-minute Zoom interactive presentation once a week for six weeks. And Ashley, Dr. Budai presents the nutrition side and gives people a basic understanding of plant-based nutrition. Do you often need that fortification of whether I am getting enough protein or calcium? Or what are the healthy fats? So it's a good solid understanding of plant-based nutrition. Each week of the program, I go through a really ground zero. This is the sharp end of the knife. This is how you stock your pantry. This is like a basic equipment list you could use to start. You could go with just a knife and a cutting board. So I like to encourage people to make it easy to move into this. So we set up a membership community where people can ask questions. 

Our mission is to help people sustain a plant-based lifestyle or include more plants in their lifestyle, whatever that turns out to be. As you said, the vegan police are not present in any of our classes. Everyone is welcome. I love seeing people light up when they realize I can cook. I can make this food taste good. I can prepare healthy food for my family. Ashley and I have 45 years of combined experience living a plant-based lifestyle. We share much of what works for us, and it becomes second nature. So the course is for anyone wanting to include more plants. We work with doctors who are busy cardiologists.

As you know, there are more studies and research that are coming out to show that a lot of the major health challenges that we are facing as a society, particularly cardiovascular disease, diabetes, high cholesterol, hypertension, and certain forms of cancer, can be prevented and reversed by including more plant-based foods in our diet. So busy doctors don't have time to show people what to do. They could say you need to eat more plant-based or reduce your meat consumption, but people must learn how to do it. So it's for anyone advised by their doctor for these conditions to include more plants. So that's who we love working with and helping.

[1:04:52.3] Ashley James: I've had cardiologists on the show who have reversed heart disease, unclogged arteries, using a whole food plant-based oil-free diet. But even the word plant-based, I think, is like the word vegan. It does not mean healthy because I can get a Beyond Burger or whatever burger. It falls into the vegan junk food category if you want to eat that. If you want to try it, go ahead. Beyond Burgers is safer than the other ones because the other ones have GMO ingredients or weird lab-based ingredients. But all those “plant-based” foods got these fake alternative meats, which is the same as going out and eating at a restaurant. You don't really know the chain of custody. They're not choosing the highest quality ingredients for you. You are way better off learning how to make your own lentil burger at home. 

I have done some amazing experiments. Be willing to burn food, like me. I hate wasting food, but be willing to make something bad and throw it out because you've learned. It's like you are Edison, and your meal is the light bulb. And you will get it the more you try, I promise you. 

[1:06:26.2] Mark Reinfeld: I like to say there are no mistakes in the kitchen. 

[1:06:29.1] Ashley James: There definitely are when you have many hungry family members waiting for you. But this is why you practice on your own time or make a backup meal if you're experimenting. It's so funny because I always experiment. My husband looks at me sideways, like, am I the guinea pig today? I'll hand him something, and I keep smiling at him, but in the back of my mind, I want to say you might not like it because I burnt it or overseasoned dinner. He's taught me just to shut up and smile at him and wait till he says something.

[1:07:05.5] Mark Reinfeld: Like I used to say, there are no mistakes in the kitchen. If you go to a restaurant with a smokey navy bean soup, someone may have burnt the navy beans earlier in the day, or you could call it rustic if it doesn't come out quite the way you wanted it to. So I really like that. In all my classes, I encourage people to keep a positive attitude, be gentle with themselves, and keep trying. I like the Edison metaphor. That's great. 

[1:07:41.9] Ashley James: So I remember these burgers I made were so good and were just three ingredients. I know it's all ⅓ of something, like ⅓ brown rice, ⅓ black beans, and ⅓ quinoa. I just blended it together. You can probably do ½ cooked brown rice, ½ of some bean, and then blend it. And I added a bunch of chipotle-style Tex-Mex kind of spices and squished them into patties on a parchment paper baking sheet. I baked them until they were crunchy on the outside but not burnt. I sliced a bunch of avocados, and I also had in the fridge a mango salsa, which is from Costco. This is the one thing that I didn't do. It's a little bit spicy. Then I took a beautiful purple cabbage, and I took the brawl leaves off. So that became the burger. It was so easy to make. 

It was really beautiful because of the purple leaf. And then I put the patty in the leaf and the greens. So you got the purple, the green, and the brown, and then I covered it with this beautiful salsa. You pull over the purple cabbage and eat it. The burger is still hot, so you have the hot burger and a little bit of the crunch. And then you have that sweetness and smoothness of the avocado and the cold crunch of the cabbage. It was delicious. We had guests over, and I'm just throwing something together, and we'll see what happens. And we ate all of it. Everyone wanted seconds and thirds. It was so beautiful. I would take that over Beyond Burger or some Frankenstein, lab-created fake meat. Just try rice and beans.

[1:10:08.0] Mark Reinfeld: You'd be great as a cookbook author because that perfectly describes the food. You used a lot of good descriptive adjectives. 

[1:10:16.7] Ashley James: Nice. All right, maybe I have a future in that. Thank you. 

[1:10:21.6] Mark Reinfeld: The purple cabbage is funny because my sister got my son to eat purple cabbage just by calling them cabalicious chips. Somehow now, he likes purple cabbage just because they're called that.

[1:10:39.9] Ashley James: Yes, you do have to play around with words with kids for them to like it. And that is funny. Last night, he really wanted to eat bok choy. I didn't have any, but I had napa cabbage. I'm like, here, I bought you his cousin. And I handed him a bunch of washed leaves of napa cabbage. He looked at me, ate it, and said, yeah, this thing is related to bok choy.

[1:11:06.0] Mark Reinfeld: Very cool. 

[1:11:07.1] Ashley James: You got to play with it. And I like that idea of variety because I've heard from many doctors that different plants' fiber feeds the gut bacteria. And so it really is that variety of both cooked and raw from organic sources. That would be great if you could get more than thirty of that variety. Some indigenous cultures live off the land, and they're not vegan. If they get to kill a pig, which doesn't happen often, most of their diet comes from foraging, and they eat over a hundred different varieties. And these are the tribal people that we're discovering have the most diverse gut microbiome and are the healthiest. And those microbiomes are missing from the Western world because of antibiotics, like lactobacillus rotor, which has been completely wiped out from the Western population because even one dose of antibiotics will wipe it out. They have seen the correlation between eating more variety of plants with a more diverse microbiome, which leads to a stronger foundation of health. 

[1:12:22.2] Mark Reinfeld: It might have been thirty a day. 

[1:12:27.8] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. We must have Dr. Ashley on the show when she returns from her trip. I would love to have her on the show and have her share some of her science and what she loves about using plant-based to heal the body. You did talk a little bit about your books. Tell us more about your books. Which one is your absolute favorite? If we could only get one of your books, which would be the life-changing of all of them?

[1:12:53.3] Mark Reinfeld: That's a good one. That's a really tough question. It's like asking who your favorite kid is. The first book, which is out of print, which I co-authored with Bo Rinaldi, Vegan World Fusion Cuisine, is the summation. At the time, that was a life workbook, a culmination of years of traveling and culinary exploration. It was magical when Bo and I met; he'd been traveling and was accomplished on his own. That book is out of print. If I had to say a book that's most readily available, it would be Healing the Vegan Way, which has over 200 recipes and contributions from many leading plant-based doctors and nutritionists. So many of them you would be familiar with. There are oil-free variations and gluten-free variations for all the recipes. It also has a nutrient reference chart that talks about which nutrients are essential for which body systems, like the cardiovascular, skeletal, and nervous systems, what the plant source of those nutrients are, and which of the recipe in the book provide those nutrients. So it's a fantastic reference guide. 

I know you asked me for my favorite, but the last book was the one that I co-authored with Ashley called The Ultimate Age-Defying Plan. It has a foreword by Dr. Klaper. And with that book, some recipes are seven ingredients or less. So it's straightforward and easy to follow. It also breaks it down based on the crucial nutrients for each body system, where and how to get them, and what recipes provide them. So that's the one I'd like to give as a giveaway. It's The Ultimate Age-Defying Plan. 

[1:15:06.3] Ashley James: Oh, that is so nice of you. I'm so excited. Will you give us a link so we can download it? 

[1:15:12.4] Mark Reinfeld: I could send you a copy. But it's like a giveaway to someone.

[1:15:22.4] Ashley James: Okay, so here's the thing. You're going to give away that book, seven ingredients or less, which you've written with your wife, a naturopathic physician, where you're making nutrient and healing recipes. I want listeners to go to the Facebook group From there, I'll make a post. It'll be pinned to the top, and I'll ask you guys to say something, and I will have my son pick a person. I want to avoid having my bias pick the person. It will be random. But I'll open it up and say, okay, scroll through here. He can read now. I used to do this when he couldn't read, and he would pick people based on their profile pictures. Now, if your profile picture has an axolotl, he'll probably pick you.

But right now, whoever wants to be part of the giveaway, I'll have him pick someone, and then we'll get your address and send you the books. That's really generous, thank you. So off the top of your head, or you can grab the book, can you share a recipe or two from that book? I love the idea of the seven ingredients or less recipes. 

[1:16:55.7] Mark Reinfeld: Can you pick a type of dish that you would like?

[1:17:03.9] Ashley James: Do you have sections like salad, appetizers, entrees, and then desserts? You can open up the book randomly in different places.

[1:17:17.8] Mark Reinfeld: So here's a berry chia bowl with pomegranate I just opened to. It uses fruit-sweetened chia pudding with pomegranate, cacao nibs, cardamom, strawberries, and sweet and spicy plantains, an amazing food. It has chipotle powder, allspice cinnamon, cilantro, and lime juice. We have a macro meal using vegetable stock with the sea vegetable arame, roasted veggies, and adzuki beans. I have a pecan sage holiday loaf recipe, so you say it's making a casserole. I do list optional ingredients. The core ingredients are seven, but there is more if you want to do more. I have a chili peach pepper jam or ruby sauerkraut.

[1:18:35.6] Ashley James: I'm still back on the first recipe. So, I have this gift. I thought everyone could do this, and my husband pointed out that only some people do this. If you list ingredients, I can taste them. It's like synesthesia. Not only can I taste ingredients, but I can taste them when you mix them, and I can taste the final product when it's cooked, and in my head, I can taste it. I thought everyone could do that. So you're listing off these ingredients, and suddenly you throw in that cardamom, and I am drooling.

[1:19:04.4] Mark Reinfeld: That's one of my desert island spices, the stuck on a desert island with one spice. Chipotle powder is probably my one spice, but cardamom is a close second.

[1:19:18.2] Ashley James: Cardamom is so underutilized in the American diet, and you don't need a lot. There's just something about it. So you've got some really amazing, powerful flavors in these recipes. I'm also hearing the healing modalities in each recipe. You're going through pomegranates being incredibly high in antioxidants. They found this micro-blue zone in the United States where pomegranate was growing along the southwestern United States where the railroad was. Those from Asia brought over pomegranates, and as they built the railroad, they would spit the seeds out. So along the railroad, it's just miraculous, like Johnny Appleseed but with pomegranates. They found that they were just in this area, and it usually was poor farm towns where they lived off the land. So they were foraging all these pomegranates and eating them. And those who were growing up eating pomegranates their whole life, that micro blue zone, had more people living disease-free beyond one hundred, than those only a mile or two away that didn't have access to the pomegranates. I'm not saying it's the silver bullet to everything. But they're so good for you. So you can add them to your breakfast a few times a week. I love the cardamom with all those other flavors. I want to get your book now. 

Do you have any stories you want to share with us? You've been in this so long, and sometimes when we get in it, we forget how cool it is for someone to say, hey, I'll try using food as medicine. I'll try going plant-based, but not the twinkie plant-based, and the pasta kind of plant-based. It's the plant-based that's like, I'm going to play this game called “how much nutrition can I pack onto my plate every day,” as Dr. Joel Fuhrman talks about the nutritarian diet. So he's not necessarily saying you have to go vegan. So he's saying you must crowd your plate with the most phytonutrients, vitamins, and minerals you can possibly crowd your plate with and see how you feel after doing that for a while. 

That's why I love it because it's not about dogma. It's not about telling people they can't eat meat. It tells you you can eat these foods that contain antioxidants and are amazing for your gut, energy levels, and skin. So the list goes on and on. And as you said, some people are healing heart disease, healing their bodies from very common illnesses like type 2 diabetes, using this food. 

Do you have any success stories of people who reluctantly started eating this way, knowing they needed to heal their bodies, and then shared their results with you? 

[1:22:50.2] Mark Reinfeld: I do, actually. If you have 4 hours, I could keep talking about them. There are so many, but I'll start with the latest one. In my classes, there are people from all walks of life. I had a cattle rancher take my class, and she did a video testimonial. I don't think she realized what she was saying. She was saying on camera, well, everyone knows we should be eating less meat. It was one of those funny moments. But starting recently, in the class I'm doing, we have a retired Navy officer who then went into Homeland Security and retired. He basically found out he had diabetes, and his doctor said you're going to be on medication for the rest of your life. He did some research and came upon The China Study. He's not vegan, but he mainly ate plant-based and reversed his diabetes. He is no longer considered a diabetic. That was over a couple of year period. And then he returned to his doctor and said that my only change was changing my diet. They nod their head and say, that's great. It's like what we talked about earlier about the institutions and the recommendations that doctors have to make based on certain protocols. It's really frustrating when you see how many people's lives could be enhanced by making these changes to diet and lifestyle. 

I have this retired firefighter whose doctor said he had diabetes and needed to go on medication for the rest of his life. He was in Taiwan, where he called his wife and said, we're going vegan, and we're going plant-based. So he changed his diet and went back six months later to his doctor. The doctor was like, I've never seen anything like this before. I don't know what you're doing but still keep at it. He reversed. 

Another student came; he was very overweight and had diabetes. He was really concerned about taking my class, and he came. After the first day, he texted me and said his blood results had never been this good. And that was just after one day of eating plant-based, and then he went on. His story and the firefighter's is in the Healing the Vegan Way book. But he went on primarily raw foods, and he reversed his diabetes.

Another woman, who was only thirty years old or in her late twenties, had really high cholesterol, and her doctor said she needed to go on statins. And this is what you will deal with for the rest of your life. So she went plant-based. 

I've literally lost track. That's just off the top of my head of people who have made positive changes to their health. Even if it's not 100% vegan, it's just becoming, like you said, crowning it out, eating more plant-based, more nutrient-dense, and healthy plant-based foods. Things are slowly gaining traction, specifically with heart disease and cardiovascular disease. This is a very positive way that you can make changes for the better in preventing and reversing many of these diseases.

[1:26:55.2] Ashley James: Dr. Esselstyn is one of the doctors that published the world's longest study on reversing heart disease using diet. His book is incredible. I recommend just getting it for any of your family members who have any inkling of heart disease. Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease is the name of his book. I had him on the show. He was doing autopsies on twenty-year-old soldiers during the Vietnam War when he saw that heart disease was already occurring in them. So you can imagine that heart disease starts in our teenagers from the food we eat. I'm not pointing the finger and saying meat is bad. But, again, I don't want to paint this as a black-and-white thing. I'm not a vegan police. I'm saying that the standard American diet, filled with fried food and really bad, low-quality oils, is just saturated in all the food. If you want to eat healthily, buy rice and beans at a Mexican restaurant. It is filled with cancer-causing, heart-clogging oils. And this isn't my opinion. This is the science.

So Dr. Esselstyn figured out a way to reverse even up to four clogs in the heart. He had people with clogged sewer on their deathbeds and eating this way. It was a very simple way at first because he didn't have recipes. He was like, you stop eating all these foods and only eat these plants. And, of course, it was just plain and gross, and no one knew how to eat delicious back then. But those who stuck with it all reversed the heart disease super fast. 

I had a client who was going to lose his job, and he loved his career. But his career required him to be within certain parameters with his blood pressure and cholesterol. Even though he was healthy, muscular, and super-fit, his cholesterol and blood pressure were through the roof, and he was very quickly going to be laid off from his career. So he was desperate, and I gave him all this information. Here's what Dr. Esselstyn says, and you can choose to follow that. But I've seen him get the fastest results in one month of eating this way. His blood pressure and cholesterol were within normal parameters, and he got to keep his job. And he loves his job, so for him, it was worth it. And just that kind of how quickly someone can reverse the health condition or can get back into normal parameters; I'm so excited to see that. 

You mentioned statin, and I have to say this because many people don't know this. I had a doctor on the show who's not plant-based. He's a cardiologist, a research scientist Ph.D., and his name is Dr. Fleming. He invented the Fleming test or the Fleming method. He's been saying for 30 years that the beginnings of heart disease and cancer are the same. The beginnings are the detection of inflammation. He's very upfront about being pro-drugs, but he can't deny the evidence that food affects our health because so many doctors say, ” Oh, you have to be on a drug. Diet's not going to affect that. Really? So food doesn't affect our health, but drugs will? But he believes that food plays a role in healing. But he looks at it from the medical standpoint. So he invented the test that hospitals use to detect heart disease, the quickest and the soonest way when it is in the earliest stages of heart disease and long before you've seen massive clogs in the arteries. And his whole thing is understanding that the beginnings of heart disease start years before as inflammation and that he sees that the foods we eat are causing the inflammation. So we need to create a diet that decreases inflammation and can reverse these illnesses. 

But here's the thing about statin drugs. Long ago, they were saying cholesterol is the cause of heart disease. Dr. Fleming and other mavericks in the research world were being canceled. So there's cancel culture back then because they said no, it's not. It is a symptom of it, as it happens later down the road. But we see inflammation early on, and then cluster occurs down the road. It is not the beginning cause. It is something that happens because of heart disease. Cholesterol deposits aren't the actual cause. It happens because of heart disease. They were saying giving people statins is not going to solve the problem. So we need to back up and go down earlier up the stream to the origins. 

Back when they first introduced statin drugs up until about 10 years ago, so for at least 20 years, they required that you had to get a blood test every six months to make sure that your liver wasn't being too damaged by the statins. This is how statins work. Your body makes cholesterol. So I get my fat from wholefood plants, so I'm eating an avocado, not the avocado oil. I'm eating flax seed and not the flax seed oil. I'm eating an olive instead of olive oil. But I choose not to eat super high fat foods all day long. So I'm eating naturally low fat. Cholesterol is so important to us. It's the building blocks of your sex hormones, your stress hormones. It is what protects our nervous system. It's the myelin sheath that goes around like an installation around our nervous system and it makes up every single cell wall in the body. We've got over 37.2 trillion cells that require cholesterol to make the cell wall healthy. So we need to have healthy cholesterol. If you don't eat it, your body is going to break down the food you eat and make cholesterol. The liver is responsible for doing that. 

So the doctors would take your blood and go, oh look, bad cholesterol. We have to lower your cholesterol. And instead of saying, by the way, maybe you should stop eating pro-inflammatory foods that are oxidizing your cholesterol causing LDL. Low density lipoprotein is a sign of oxidation in the body which is a free radical damage, like increasing antioxidant-rich foods and getting your fat from healthier sources, getting some good exercise in there, as well as all the lifestyle changes you can do. They just said okay, we're going to create a drug that damages your liver so much. It bruises your liver so much, it ceases to function correctly and it stops producing cholesterol. But they didn't tell you to stop eating it. This doesn't make any sense to me because if the problem was too much cholesterol, they never said stop eating the cholesterol, or stop eating the foods that cause the inflammation, and that cause the oxidative stress to the fat that's loaded with lipoprotein. They're saying, let's just damage your liver. If the pharmaceutical company was completely like this, it's so obvious that they showed their hand. How obvious do you have to be? These doctors have good intentions to help you. I've asked every cardiologist I had on the show if statins make a difference, and they say they do more harm than good. There's only one study that shows that if you took statins after your first heart attack, you'll be less likely to get your second heart attack. But I'm like, by the time you're having your first attack, there's some major damage and we need to reverse some stuff. But all these cardiologists said, statins do not prevent the first heart attack. It's damaging the liver. 

But you brought up statins, and I think it's a really good point to take a step back and say, wait a second. I need to question everything I've been taught about food, healing, and medicine. I have to start thinking for myself and start looking around with what's working. And what we see work is taking that nutritarian approach of using the most nutrient-dense rich foods or fiber rich foods and adding those to our plate. That's what we're seeing really works. 

[1:36:57.4] Mark Reinfeld: It's like the future of medicine is returning to the origins of medicine and Hippocrates saying, let food be your medicine. I think you come full circle to realize the important role that choosing the right foods plays in our overall health.

[1:37:14.7] Ashley James: Isn't that wild? Do you have any go-to recipes for your own healing? If you have a headache, do you like to reach for the coconut water? Or if you injured yourself, do you make sure to add turmeric to your food. Do you have any first aid foods that you incorporate in your life? 

[1:37:37.2] Mark Reinfeld: I would say making turmeric milk, or gold milk. My sister has done a lot of healing and has come across studies of the core foods to include and the turmeric milk is definitely one that I noticed helped me pass through if there's something going around here. I just dose up on the turmeric milk. You can make a really simple tumeric paste with powdered turmeric and a little ground black pepper. And I like cardamom. Whenever I could put cardamom in something, I do. So I put a little cardamom and cinnamon, and some cayenne in it as well and you could just mix that with water to form a paste. I feel having some warm plant-based milk helps me kick the latest thing that was going around. 

[1:38:44.4] Ashley James: I love that. I do something really similar and we call it moon tea, but I make a concentrate of it. I can send you my recipe. This is after me playing with it. But I'm going to try adding cardamom. I haven't done that. But I'll add some ashwagandha, some mushroom powder, and also ginger and clove. They are antiviral and antiparasitic. And ashwagandha is so great for sleep. So I do all that and I make a concentrate. I take a scoop of it, put it in hot water, and then a little bit of coconut milk. You can add a little bit of date syrup or stevia if you want. My favorite is a little bit of maple. I'm Canadian, okay. 

[1:39:35.4] Mark Reinfeld: Maple syrup is my go-to sweetener too. What form is the ashwagandha? Is it the powdered form? 

[1:39:43.8] Ashley James: It's powder. 

[1:39:45.3] Mark Reinfeld: Okay. 

[1:39:46.2] Ashley James: If there's a better way, tell me, because I just buy a big bag of organic ashwagandha powder. 

[1:39:51.8] Mark Reinfeld: Okay, that's cool. Yeah, we have the tincture. 

[1:39:54.1] Ashley James: Okay, yeah. You know you're definitely getting a more concentrated amount. I already sleep really well, but I go to bed on my side and I wake up on the same side when I drink the stuff. I don't know if it's just because of the turmeric that's anti-inflammatory or it's coupled with the ashwagandha. I have an amazing bed that absorbs all the pressure points, and doesn't cause any pressure points. I have a whole interview about this technology that they invented originally to cure bed sores. So I can actually fall asleep and stay asleep for 8 hours on my shoulder and on my hip and and have no pain the next day. But I'll fall asleep in one position, and I'll stay asleep the whole night. If I drink this stuff, it's like I did not move the entire night. 

[1:40:50.3] Mark Reinfeld: I love to check that out. That's amazing. The food is crucial and the sleep is very important. And that reminds me of something called The Nourish Plan, and we go through that in in the book, The Age-Defying Plan. But sleep is definitely a core principle for health. Pushed in a corner, I might even say sleep is the most important. They all fit together, but I'm glad you touched on the sleep topic. 

[1:41:31.2] Ashley James: Yes, the S is in the beginning. You have to come up with the word that meant nourish but started with an S.

[1:41:36.5] Mark Reinfeld: Well, that's what the S is for.

[1:41:40.5] Ashley James: Can you tell us what the other ones are for?

[1:41:44.6] Mark Reinfeld: Yeah, the N is for nutrition. So that's looking at the food and energy and phytonutrient that comes from plants. O is for oxytocin, which is just feeling the happiness hormone and feeling that sense of joy and connection. The U is for use it or lose it. So that's where the movement and the exercise or whatever can fit into your life. It doesn't have to be pumping iron all the time. The R is for relationships. So it's the importance of our fast-paced, digital culture, like the real importance of having that connection to others and the support of friends in your community. We all have our own stories to share the. The I is for intention, and that's where the mindfulness comes in and just bringing intention into how we live. I think that's an ongoing exercise for all of us. The S is for sleep. If there was a way to put S first, I might. Then the H is for hydration. It's the importance of water. Hydrotherapy is something that's really big in our house; the hot and cold with water, steaming, and just drinking good quality water. That's our Nourish Plan.

[1:43:30.1] Ashley James: I love it so much. The S and the H are competing for the number one place. So one of my mentors has been practicing for 35 years, naturopathic physician, Dr. Molly Niedermeyer. She used to be the dean of Bastyr Naturopathic Medical College and she's delivered over a thousand babies. She's an amazing woman to pick her brain and I was fortunate to have her as my doctor for several years and I've learned so much from her. This is a tongue twister. She said 5% reduction in hydration leads to a 25% reduction in energy production. By the way, it takes a week to become dehydrated. Like if you didn't drink enough water and drink too much coffee that one day, but if you repeat that for seven days, and you have chronic dehydration. And it takes seven days of drinking half your body weight in ounces, plus any extra to recoup from sweating from exercise and from stressors like caffeine. But it takes you seven days. It's not just one day of drinking enough water and it's good. You have to do it every day for seven days and now you've recovered from chronic dehydration.  

Imagine if you just drank 5%, that's like maybe 5 ounces. So 5% is not a lot. If you think, oh I drink 70 ounces, I'm good. I drink 60 ounces, I'm good. But if your body even needed 65 or 70 or 80 ounces, and you're missing just 5% of your hydration, it leads to a 25% reduction in your body's ability to produce ATP which is cellular energy. It also reduces your ability to clear toxins away from the cells and to bring in nutrients. 

I had a doctor on my show who was on his deathbed and he used this thought process to heal his body. All the doctor said, go home to die, and he used this one process. He was in sepsis and his liver was in liver failure. He was really bad and he said, okay, I understand how the body works. I need to think about how to make a cell healthy. It's like every cell is a house. Take out the garbage, bring in the groceries. The cells have inflammation around it. So the groceries can't get in and the garbage can't get out. It's like a blizzard has come in, and surrounded each house. And now the organelles inside the house are stuck in going. I can't get the groceries in, and the garbage out. That's what sickness is. 

So he had to break it down and he used hydration as one of his ways. And to everyone's amazement, he lived and thrived after that. I got to do everything possible to bring down the inflammation. So I hydrate so I can get the groceries in and the garbage out. 

[1:46:34.3] Mark Reinfeld: Wow, that's a great metaphor. That's a great story. 

[1:46:37.3] Ashley James: So your food and your nourish plan is getting the good groceries in, and getting the garbage out. And that's fantastic. I love that, and I love that you bring in intention as well. We don't realize that mindset is everything. If we're not moving towards the way we want to be, we're like an untethered boat just bobbing around in the ocean. We start to feel like we've lost a purpose. If we know where we're going, and we know that it's possible to have healing, which it is. 

And many listeners know, but some new ones might not, that I had chronic adrenal fatigue so bad, I couldn't process human language in the morning. I was a wreck and I had type 2 diabetes. I was hungry and had to eat every 45 minutes. I had out of control blood sugar. I cry every day because I was a prisoner trapped in a really sick body. And this was in my twenties. My twenties were supposed to be going out partying and having fun. I was just sick all the time. It was holistic medicine that I was able to also reverse polycystic ovarian syndrome. I was told after a battery of tests that I'd never get pregnant. And we have an amazing son. I was able to reverse polycystic ovarian syndrome. It's no longer in my blood work and I no longer have the symptoms of it. So I was able to reverse infertility, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and type 2 diabetes. I was able to reverse chronic adrenal fatigue. That was the easiest, fastest thing to leave my body; and its nutrition. So if I can heal my body using food, so can you. And also, filling in the gaps with those wonderful supplements. It's like the mortar, food is the brakes. You can't add supplements on a bad diet. But also sometimes we need that extra support from herbs and minerals. So I love that. 

I'm going to just jump into your books and I can't wait to add more cardamom to my diet. That sounds delicious. And we're doing a giveaway on the Learn True Health Facebook group. We've talked so much today, but is there anything we haven't talked about today that you really wanted to make sure we touch on?

[1:48:53.1] Mark Reinfeld: One thing I'd like to say is what I've come across in just tuning into this idea of purpose and what our role is here. For me, like I mentioned, I just love showing people how to create plant-based food that tastes amazing. And so, I came out with these seven culinary keys to create amazing plant-based foods. If we have the time, I could just do a quick overview of them. But this is consolidating 25 plus years of working with them. 

So the first is palate development. This is something that develops over time as you learn to develop the subtle flavors of food. So I like doing palate development exercises with people, of tasting garlic all the way from raw to burn or tasting water with different flavors, like salty, sweet, sour, or pungent, so you can develop your palate over time. 

The second key is this template recipe format where you learn to see the underlying formula of a recipe. Once you see that underlying formula, you could see that by changing the different components you could create a new recipe. And that NOURISH course we offer; there maybe twenty-five or thirty recipes we share, but you're actually learning hundreds, and even thousands of recipes when you implement that template recipe format.

The third key would be the global spice blends that that we talked about. It is just the simple act of stocking your pantry with these blends. Like you said, you could take a baked potato and create world cuisine just by adding those different spice blends. 

The fourth would be world sauces. So it's really diving in and getting creative with your sauces. They could just be things like barbecue, Thai peanut, pesto, sweet and sour teriyaki. So, once you start adding all these world sauces into your repertoire, your creations really take off. 

And then the other step I call is veganizing, where if you love your bacon cheeseburger, there are ways to create plant-based alternatives that could satisfy the craving. These might be in the transitional food categories that I don't recommend all the time. Like a vegan mayonnaise, is not the same nutrition as a shot of wheatgrass. But if it helps you overcome a craving and you're heading towards that, a whole food plant-based diet, I feel that they play a role.

The sixth key is superfood nutrition. This is what you talked about, adding nutrient-dense superfoods, as well as raw foods, just to maximize the vitality of your meals. Then the last would be experimentation. 

And the three most important thing is our practice, practice and practice, and you touched on that also. We're just experimenting in the kitchen, use different ingredients and techniques, and over time, you'll see your skills and your confidence and creativity will definitely start to expand in the kitchen.

[1:52:25.0] Ashley James: I love it. Many people have heard of this, but I feel like I'm kind of late to the party, but there's something called ChatGPT, and it said, open source AI software, meaning you don't have to pay for it. So my husband and I had a lot of fun playing with it, and I typed in give me ten recipes. So I asked for recipes, and what it did is just gave me a list of ingredients, and it said, you got to experiment yourself with the different ratios. But this is more like an idea instead of sticking exactly to recipes. It's more like, throw in the pan and see what happens. And I asked it to give me ten dinner ideas for whole food, plant-based diet. This is an AI, an artificial intelligence, but it's crazy. I had so much fun. So here, I just typed it in because I couldn't find my chat before, which had some really delicious, and I was reading it like, my mouth was watering. But here we have quinoa stir-fried with vegetable and tofu. You don't need a recipe for that, because you could choose Italian seasoning or you could choose maybe curry, and there are different kinds of curries in the world. But I could make Japanese curry kind of gravy, or I could do pesto. So here we have quinoa stir-fry with vegetables and tofu. The second one is lentil soup with bread, chickpea and vegetable curry, roasted eggplant with humus and whole grain pita, stuffed bell pepper with rice, beans, and veggies, spaghetti with marinara sauce, of course, and roasted vegetables, sweet potato and black bean tacos, avocado and tomato sandwich with whole grain bread. It just goes on and on. My last one is grilled portobello mushroom with baked sweet potato and steamed greens. I didn't mean to let an AI replace you. That wasn't the point. Although you should feel a little threatened. The AI is coming after the vegan chefs, I'm just saying. 

But if you need these ideas, there are so many out there. But for me, when I look at recipes, I'm looking at how much dense nutrition profile does this have? I'm not going to choose the one with pasta and the the pita bread and all that, because those foods don't contain a lot of dense nutrition. Those are fun to eat, sure. But I'm looking for the dense nutrition and anything that has lots of vegetables and lots of flavor. That's why I like your recipes because you've got your wife looking over shoulder going, okay, we should add the antioxidant-rich foods into this recipe. So I love that you got this doctor at your side going, all right, I really want you to create a recipe that has this many antioxidants in it. It's like, let's get at least 30 vegetables a week. I thought it was funny because you said per day, and I'm like, 30 plants a day kind of sounds like more than 15 minutes in the kitchen. That's like, you have 30 seconds per plant.

[1:55:45.0] Mark Reinfeld: Well, picture how many could be in a nice salad. You could hit 15.

[1:55:48.8] Ashley James: That's true, exactly. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I think the point is that for people who feel intimidated by the kitchen, there are so many resources for you. And in a very short period of time, you could go from not knowing how to cook, or not liking cooking, to really enjoying it. Because when you make delicious food and your family loves it, you start to feel healthy because of your food. It is a super big motivator. But we have to start with really simple, delicious, and nutritious recipes, and that's what you started with, to teach us the habit in the kitchen to build our confidence up.

[1:56:36.6] Mark Reinfeld: Totally. That's what it's all about for us. 

[1:56:39.6] Ashley James: Awesome. Well, good luck with the launch of your two courses that are coming up really soon. I'll make sure all the information is in the show notes of today's podcast,, and in all the podcast directories as well, so that they can check it out. It's been such a pleasure having you on the show and please, I look forward to having your wife on the show. And I definitely want to interview anyone that you recommend because you are so well-connected with all the amazing holistic doctors that are helping people heal their bodies, especially with food. 

[1:57:10.3] Mark Reinfeld: Thank you so much, Ashley. It's been a pleasure speaking with you and I've learned a lot from you too. So thank you for all these tidbits. 

[1:57:18.2] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today's episode with Chef Mark Reinfeld. And I am still drooling thinking about that cardamom in that dish, and I just love how he pairs some of those flavors. I love that he's thinking about people who are just starting out in the kitchen and especially those of us who are trying to get our health back. We're already tired. We already got a million things to do, but we know that eating out really deteriorates our body. It does not build us up. We're either building up or we're breaking down. That's how the body works. It's either going in one direction or going in the other. This myth of homeostasis, if we never achieve homeostasis, we're always trying to achieve it. We're always moving closer to the mark or away from the mark. So if you think about like, oh I'm too tired to cook, I get it. I have spent way too much money eating out. There's the cost on your wallet, but there's the cost on your long-term health. Your cells now have to figure out how to build new healthy cells with this limited amount of nutrients, because we are not getting the optimal quality nutrients when we eat out. We just aren't. 

And so the best thing to do is to learn how to make simple meals. Now, I do. It takes me about 15 minutes from start to finish, to make delicious multi-vegetable meals, and it just takes practice and takes getting in the kitchen. The biggest thing I could say is, if you are feeding yourself or even if you're feeding your family and you only have enough time to cook once a day, you should make more. Double the recipe, or triple the recipe. Cook like you're cooking Thanksgiving, and cook a much larger portion. You can always freeze it. You can always portion it out. Leftovers taste better so you can heat it up, and eat it for lunch the next day. Heck, I've eaten dinner for breakfast the next day. It just saves you so much energy and time. Because if you're prepping everything once and you already have it out of the fridge, you're already cooking it. All it takes is just two more minutes to prep a little bit more of the same vegetables and the same foods. My biggest thing is I always triple or quadruple recipes, have leftovers for three days, and then it's just easy breezy, lemon squeezy. 

So check out Mark's stuff. Go to, and see his beautiful recipes and know that everything that he does is approved by a naturopathic physician who is very hypocritical of the work because it's his wife's of course. She's looking over his shoulder and telling him what she believes are the healthiest foods to heal and nourish the body. And then he comes up with the amazing flavors. If we can enjoy health, then that's perfect. That's exactly what we need. So speaking of which, I'm going to go eat the leftovers. I cooked at lunch and I made enough so that I can have the same meal for dinner, because I wanted to save myself some time and energy and be able to do other things around the house, including publishing this episode. So, I'm going to publish this episode and go eat my delicious lunch part 2, for dinner. Have yourself a fantastic day and watch out for the next episode because it will blow your mind.

Get Connected with Chef Mark Reinfeld!








Jan 26, 2023

To work with Ashley James and try the phototherapy, Go Here:
In the Menu, click Work with Ashley James


496: Phototherapy Patches

Ashley James & Trina Hammack

Trina Hammack explains the benefits of using biophoton therapy patches to increase stem cell production and metabolism, lose weight, and stimulate the body's ability to burn fat healthfully and detox. All these things and more will be discussed in today's episode.


  • Biophoton therapy patches
  • A protocol for pain and decreasing inflammation in the body as a whole
  • Cutting-edge technology stimulates the body's ability to make new peptides and create new stem cells.
  • A technology that stimulates your body's own healing mechanisms
  • Energy patches can increase your fat burning by 23%
  • Holistic medicine and healing the body


Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of Learn True Health Podcast. Today is fun because we have Trina Hammack back on the show to share some amazing technology my husband and I have been using along with some other family members and friends, and we love it. The results are outstanding. I've been studying this and diving into it. As you listen to this episode today and want to try this technology, you can book a session with me where I can help you figure out exactly what protocol you need. 

Go to, and right at the top, it says, “Work with Ashley James”. When you click on that, the first thing at the top will be Free Phototherapy Discovery Session. It’s a 15-minute phone call. Book it, and then I can help you pick the proper protocol. This doesn't make much sense because you haven’t listened to the episode. I just wanted to arm you with all the information you needed. So as you're listening, if you say, “Ah, this is really for me. I want to try it, ” then you can go ahead and book a call with me, and I'll help you through it. And I have access to many excellent practitioners who have been using this type of technology. This technology helps increase stem cells in the body, muscle mass, bone density, and collagen. People's cellular age is getting younger. People have more energy and more endurance. For those looking to increase metabolism, lose weight, and stimulate the body's ability to burn fat healthily and detox, all these things and more we discuss in today's episode. Suppose you are interested in using a type of phototherapy that's easy to do, you don't have to buy a machine, and you can do it at home in such an easy application compared to all the other big machines that people have to invest in to do phototherapy; this is amazing. I'll not say much more because you'll learn about it in the episode. I just wanted to ensure you had all the necessary information to take action when ready.

So go to at the very top, click “Work with Ashley James,” and then from there, sign up for our free 15-minute phone call, the Free Phototherapy Discovery Session. If you have any questions, you can also feel free to email me at Enjoy today's episode and share it with your friends who want to get a leg up. So maybe they've hit a wall, hit a plateau, and they want a cutting-edge, they want to get on the other side of something, they have a fantastic protocol for pain, a fantastic protocol for decreasing inflammation in the body as a whole. Be sure to share this episode with your friends who have pain or inflammation or want more stem cells, youth, muscle mass, and bone density. We’ll discuss all these things and many more in this interview. Share this episode with friends interested in the cutting-edge technology that stimulates the body's ability to make these new peptides and create new stem cells. It's wonderful because it's not something you have to add to your body. It’s something that stimulates your body's healing mechanisms. So it's right up your alley if you love holistic medicine, as I do. Excellent. Enjoy today's episode, and have a fantastic rest of your day.

[0:03:43.6] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health Podcast. I'm your host, Ashley James, and this is Episode 496. 

I am so excited about today's guest. We have the functional practitioner, Trina Hammack, on the show. Oh man, the things you do are so exciting. Trina, was it Episode 156? She blew my mind. We talked about getting rid of mold and mold toxicity in the home and how hidden mold can disrupt so many functions of the body, throw the immune system off balance, and throw detoxification off balance. And because of her, I went down the whole rabbit hole and interviewed several other experts on mold, and I had two experts from Green Home Solutions on the show. And so people listening, or like, “I have mold in my home, and I'm sick,” you guys have got to go back and listen to Episode 156. Then, of course, you can go to, type in mold, and find all those other interviews. 

But Trina opened my eyes to many cool things about healing the body. We need to take back our health. We need to put our foot down and say, “I am done with waiting to get sick and going to a doctor who will put me on a drug that keeps me sick. I appreciate drugs for the ones that work, and when we need them, they are there. But I want to say 90% of drugs on the market are not only not helpful but also toxic. They’re harmful because they create a mentality that we wait to get sick and then get put on a drug when holistic medicine is out there. Every bite of food we take is our medicine. Everything we drink is our medicine. Every activity we do in our life is our medicine. There are so many herbs and supplements. There's energy work. And when I say energy work, there's science behind it, like frequency-specific microcurrent. I have a fantastic two-part interview on that, which speeds up the healing time after surgeries. So much, so that sports teams like the NFL use them to get players back on the field faster. These are multi-million-dollar industries, and they use them in their locker rooms and physical therapy.

So, Trina, you use many of the devices and the incredible healing modalities that are so far out to me. They are so far out because we don't see them in the mainstream. Hollywood does such an injustice because you watch Grey's Anatomy and all these shows like Hollywood emergency medicine. But really, Hollywood has painted us a picture of the Western medical machine. This big machine is where you wait to get sick. You go to the doctor. They'll send you off for tests through machines or blood work, and then you'll get put on drugs. But medical doctors are not trained in holistic medicine and healing the body, getting the body so healthy, and supporting the body's ability to heal itself. They're not trained in that. So we're missing. That's only a fraction of the pie of medicine. But that's the only part of medicine we are exposed to daily, right?

It's like, 5% of medicine is that type of medicine, and yet we’re exposed to it as if it's 95% of medicine. So there's the oldest medicine out there that's holistic, supports the body's ability to heal, and gets you so healthy. You no longer have diabetes and heart disease, which is reversible, and polycystic ovarian syndrome, which is reversible. How do I know? I reversed it. I used to have really bad PCOS. An endocrinologist told me I was infertile and I’ll never have kids. Guess what? I have an amazing son and don't have polycystic ovarian syndrome. I don't have diabetes and chronic adrenal fatigue anymore. I don’t have chronic infections for which I was on monthly antibiotics. Many things are reversed, and I've helped many people reverse other issues. Trina has as well. There are thousands of people that Trina has helped. So I know I'm on the soapbox. I’m coming in hot. I'm super excited today because Trina introduced me to something I've been using on multiple friends and family members for over a month. I've seen some mind-blowing results, and I've been super excited to share them with you guys. I wanted to try it, and we've been using it daily. And we've seen some phenomenal results of importing through science.

Trina, I'm so excited to bring this to the listeners today because those listening are sick or suffering. They have friends and family who are sick and suffering, and they want to end that suffering. Some people have already changed their diet. They're already on supplements and doing healthier things, moving their body in a way that brings them joy. They're doing a lot of things. They cleaned up their home. They got rid of all the toxic chemicals underneath the sink, and they stopped using those cleaners. They’ve stopped using cosmetics that have all the horrible things. They got rid of processed foods with dyes, chemicals, and pesticides. So they've cleaned up their lives, and maybe they're still sick. They still have some issues. They are still tired and still in pain. And what you're here today to share has taken people's health to the next level. Even people who've tried everything and they’re still sick. So I’m excited. 

This is one of those keys that maybe you haven't cleaned up your life, but you want to enhance your body's ability to heal itself while you're going through and cleaning up your life. Or, as I said, you're on the other side; you've already cleaned up everything, but you still have some nagging issues that aren't moving, and you're like, why am I doing all this stuff? 

Today, Trina will share something that will make a difference in your life. So welcome back to the show, Trina. I'm super excited to have you here today. 

[0:10:05.6] Trina Hammack: Thank you so much. I love getting together with you and sharing with your listeners all this fantastic information they may still need access to. 

[0:10:18.4] Ashley James: So, diving right in, because it's been a few years since you've been on the show, I want to know what has happened in the last few years. When we had you on the show, you were helping people to detox mold out of their bodies and out of their homes and helping people regain their immune systems, immune function, and detox pathways, clean it up after mold exposure. You also help people with other chronic diseases like Lyme disease and many other chronic issues. So what has happened since then? Catch us up. 

[0:10:55.8] Trina Hammack: Yeah. So back then, when we were talking about mold, my whole family, including the dogs, were going through cleaning up for the mold we had been exposed to. And I had been exposed since I was five. Having genetic SNPs is challenging for me to get rid of mold. So I colonized it. So for me, it’s work. And so when we did that interview, we were in the middle of cleaning up our own systems. We were doing well, but I didn't realize how much better I could be until I was exposed to a technology developed for the Navy Seals twenty years ago, and we started using this technology. At first just with my family, and this was after our interview. So I wish I had known about it back then to tell you about it, but here we are now. So I started using biophoton therapy technology to help my body detox differently than supplements and binders, and other therapies didn't cover this detox component. So when we started using this therapy, we started feeling better faster. My brain function became even more precise. My energy became more on-point and robust, and so did my stamina. So everything started to take on a new level of healing once I started using these biophoton therapy patches. That's what we were doing right after we spoke. Everything just turned on a dime from then on. We got better and better. 

[0:12:40.4] Ashley James: You’re a functional practitioner. You have a clinic, and you work with clients. You started using it with your family, and then you started using it with your clients. What happened then? Please give us the timeline. 

[0:12:54.5] Trina Hammack: So it was crazy because when I first heard about this, I was, sure, yeah, right. I'll bite. I had tried everything, but I still wasn't where I wanted to be. I was close, but it wasn't enough for me. So anyway, I hear about these, and I’m like, I’ll buy it. I bought them and started using them. And almost immediately, I started getting my energy back. My allergy symptoms from mold were getting better. Then I started doing some detox processes, and I kept improving. So my whole family was using them, and they were getting better. We used some of them on dogs. I would see immediate changes because our dogs are mold poisoned too. I was committed to using them just for my family for a while. And I wasn't going to bring them into my practice yet because I needed to vet them.

So anyway, I haven't used them with anybody. Then one day, one of my clients in his 70s came in, and he was mold poisoned. He had Lyme, and he didn't sleep well the night before. So he went in, sat down, and couldn't speak to me. He was like, comatose. I can't even believe he got to the office. I was like, oh my gosh, do I call 911, or what do I do? And then it came to me, just in a flash, to use the biophoton therapy brain injury protocol on him. So, I took these biophoton therapy patches, stuck them on the inside of a ball cap in a certain configuration, and I just put it on his head, and I don't know what to do. I'm just going to Hail Mary in here. And I put it on, and in under two minutes, this man had color back on his face. His eyes lit up, and he started talking up a storm as if he had just woken up. He was just normal, and I was like, holy crow. Oh my gosh. And I said, hey, just wear the hat the rest of the week. You’ll probably get a good week's wear out of these patches. Just wear it and let me know what's going on. So I text him later in the day. I said, hey, how's it going? And he said, oh, I ran errands all day. I went surfing.

Okay, here we go. So that was the first person I used them with within my practice. I still wasn't convinced. I'm like, okay, we'll see. And the second person came in; she had been a practitioner here, and I hadn't seen her for a while. She had gotten mold poisoned. We found mold in her home, and it triggered Parkinson's. My heart just dropped when I saw her. She was tremoring, and she had a shuffling gait. Her speech was prolonged, and she had two frozen shoulders. And she came by, and I'm like, what do I do, because I didn't know enough yet. I knew enough to put this brain hat on her for the brain injury, and it was incredible. Her tremors stopped instantly. Her speech cleared up, and her gait opened up. I'm like, wow, I just watched it before my eyes. Oh my gosh. 

And then I patched her shoulders, and it took about two minutes, and she could lift them straight up in the air pain-free. She couldn't even take off her jacket a few minutes before because she couldn't raise her arms. And at that moment, I said, all right, everybody who walks in the door is going to get patched. And it's so true. We have excellent proprietary protocols that combine acupuncture and biophoton therapy for everybody who comes. When you know how to use them, it's incredible. You can see the pain disappear in under a minute. I've seen it disappear in ten seconds. I've seen inflammation go down before my eyes. There are so many ways to use them. So I’m beyond grateful that we have access to these protocols to know what to do with these patches. 

People may wonder, what the heck is biophoton therapy? Well, these patches were invented for the Navy Seals twenty years ago. David Schmitz created these to help them with their strength and stamina for being in the submarines for days. They had sustained energy and brain function. They heal faster and all this stuff. 

And so these patches get activated by the heat and light from your body when you put a patch on. You're not absorbing anything into the body which is not transdermal, which is fantastic. There are no contraindications when you use them if you’re on medications. So I use them on babies, all the way to older people with no contraindications. The light from your body will activate the patch, depending on which patch you put on. Hey, this stem cell activating patch; let’s put that on and raise your copper peptide levels so your body can make more stem cells and use them wherever you need them. Or let’s put on this carnosine patch to raise carnosine for tissue healing. I put a stem cell patch on an elderly dog this morning who had been traumatized from being at a puppy mill. I put the patch on underneath her collar, and I watched her eyes transform right before mine. The fear just melted away.

It's fantastic technology. I'm beyond grateful for having found this because it takes every single protocol I do here and allows the person to take fewer supplements and move energy through their acupuncture meridian system, which is like your electrical system. So when you start moving energy through that system, it takes things to another level. 

[0:19:42.9] Ashley James: You talked about light and heat that activate the patches. So I started digging into the science. I said this before on the podcast; I am an open-minded skeptic. I'm a huge skeptic, but I'm also equally as open-minded. I feel like I should go in and try new things. I thought everyone did this. Have you ever had the experience where you thought everyone thought the way you think until you meet someone that thinks so opposite you? You think that this is just normal human behavior. And then, like, oh wait, no. This is a gift. This is my unique gift; maybe a lot of people do it, but many people don’t. 

So, I have a family member who never wants to try new things. She wants to go to the same restaurant. She never wants to go to a new restaurant and only orders one thing off the menu. The first thing she's ordered the first time she goes, she will never deviate. She hates change. I am the opposite. I will never order the same thing twice on the menu. I also don’t want to go to the same restaurant. I’m just using it as an example; I try not to eat out. I love trying new things. Instead, I'd try something new that may disappoint me, then stick with the same thing all the time. For me, that's learning and growing. And of course, if something works, like I make a delicious salad, I will repeat that delicious salad. Of course, I’m going to do that. So if something works with me, like there are a few supplements that changed my life twelve years ago; I'm still taking them. I'm not going to stop just because I want to try something new. If something works, I'm going to keep it. I love trying new things, but I'm also skeptical about new things, so that I will use my critical thinking. Anything to do with patches, I've been skeptical. It was introduced to me a few years ago about these nutritional patches that promise you that you can get all your vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and all your fatty acids or mega fatty acids from putting a patch on your body, and your body would absorb everything. And I'm looking at you like, okay, so you're telling me that my body will get something that should be like a handful of things, right? And it's going to fit on a tiny sticker, and you're putting it on my body. So I've been very skeptical because there's been a lot of patch companies out there that have said that they are nutritional patches. That's why I've been very unsure about that. Although I believe we can absorb certain nutrients through the skin, like transdermal magnesium. It’s amazing. We can absorb certain nutrients that go through the skin. Absolutely. 

And then you and I have been friends on Facebook since you came to the show. I've loved everything you've shared. Back last February, almost a year ago, you shared some science about these patches helping people with stenosis and spine issues like the degeneration of the spine and the disks, and how there was science to show and that there have been studies that people are regrowing bone density and healthier bones. Their pain is going away, like things like that. I had two friends with stenosis, and I said, give me that information. I want to share it with them. So I started to look into this. Then life got busy, and I kept going and didn’t think about it. 

And then, a few months ago, my son was very hyper when sitting down and doing some homeschooling. He's free-range, like how a boy should be. He'd instead climb a tree than sit and read a book. Is there anything we can do to calm his nervous system enough to concentrate? We do not feed him sugar, and he acts like we do. He eats a very clean, safe, and healthy diet. I was trying some homeopathy and acupuncture. Everything helps a little bit. I noticed a slight improvement here and there. It's just a seven-year-old boy, and getting him to sit down for a few hours and focus on stuff he’s interested in isn't necessarily fun. But I was getting frustrated, like, is there anything we can do to calm his nervous system? 

Since our daughter died, I have been doing a lot better. But I noticed for my nervous system, it's much easier to be frazzled, to a point where I would get overstimulated quickly. This is part of healing from post-traumatic stress, and I would feel like my nervous system is just shot. Have you ever had that experience? Like, I need to lie in a dark room without noise. I don't want anyone to bother me for fifteen minutes. I need a break. So I never had that before. I'm an extrovert; I want to be with stimulus. I love stimulus, but the last few years have been difficult, coupled with trying to get a kid to calm down. He's enough stimulus as it is. 

So I reached out to Trina because she had been posting some really interesting information about this technology, and I said, hey, could this help a kid to calm down and concentrate? She says, “Oh honey, boy, I have some cool stuff for you!”

Plus, our son has allergies, and we need to understand where they came from. Maybe it's mold exposure because we did have a moldy bathroom, and he did grow up with a moldy bathroom. We didn’t know it until we did that interview 156. But he grew up as a baby and a toddler with mold exposure. That could be the cause of his allergies and asthma, which we have under control. 

But I was talking to Trina about this stuff, and other things started to come up. Like, well, I have this other family member with these problems. No matter what we do, she can't sleep; she has insomnia all night. But she has to nap all day long. It's just like flipped. She has constant worry, and she's unmotivated. Her hands are shaking. She's got all these different issues. My husband and I started listing all the things he wants to heal. And then, I started listing all the things I'd love to improve in these areas of my life. 

And so Trina’s like, let's get you on these specific protocols. So I'm like, let's do it. So let's try it and see how it goes because they have a bit of a money-back guarantee. So let's try and see how it goes. 

Our shipment comes, and this is just at the end of November and the beginning of December. That day that our package arrived was perfect timing. I look back, and I always think God lightens things up perfectly to have these experiences to learn from. That particular day, my nervous system was so fried. This happens once every three or four months, which could have been better. Our son was hyper and loud, and then my husband was loud, or whatever was happening. I told both of them I needed to lie down for fifteen minutes. I don’t want anyone to talk to me. And, of course, they did not listen to me. They were following me into the bedroom. I’m like, leave me alone. I need a few minutes to lie down. My nervous system is very fried right now. So please, I just need to reset. So they finally left me alone. I was lying down doing some breathing, just like, what is going on? Why am I so on edge? It’s almost like PMS when you feel like you're on edge. So that's precisely what I felt. 

So then our package came, and we got on a video call with Trina. I'm like, this is where I'm at right now. I am really on edge. My nervous system is fried. I feel pressure and tension in my body. And Trina goes, okay, you're going to make a hat. So we got a baseball hat and stuck the patches in specific places for the head. And my husband put the hat on my head, and it felt like you grabbed the knob in my brain and turned it down 75%. I'm like, what just happened? I felt everything come down like you just turned all the knobs down. Within about three minutes, I said I felt out of my body. I'm feeling very calm. I’ve become the third person, observing myself, feeling relaxed, and that pressure is gone. My nervous system’s not fried. I'm not as frustrated. I was 500% frustrated before you put on the hat, and it all came down. Then I can hear my son and my husband. I could tolerate their presence, whereas I couldn't before. For me, that's part of the healing with whatever residual is going on from post-traumatic stress, which, as I said, I've been getting better and better. I had been the worst it had been in a long time. And so putting on that hat was like me showing you contrast within minutes. I could not believe it, but I felt it right away. That was a good experience, but I’m not 100% sold. Let's try a few other things. And we did try a few other things. 

My husband loves them. He will not go a day without them. He loved them. So the day his dad died last April, my husband has been doing hospice care. He moved out of our house and moved in with his parents and lived beside his dad, doing 24-hour hospice care for five months. He got interrupted sleep and wasn't eating great. I kept coming over and trying to cook for him and stuff. He was just not in a great position, throughout his neck or whatever he did. 

My husband had to go in for an emergency root canal on the day his dad died. However, they had his neck in the root canal for like seven hours. It was crazy. Whatever they did caused him to have daily, almost migraine-level headaches. I'd touch his upper trapezius muscles, and they would be hard as a rock. It would radiate pain up into his head and eyes. It’s a typical upper trapezius trigger point headache. It would be debilitating. He'd have to lie down and couldn't function. So we went to the chiropractor. There were several chiropractors we went to. We went to acupuncturists. We did craniosacral therapy. We did intercession with prayer work and laying of hands. We did emotional work. Everything helped a little bit. He took anti-inflammatory supplements. I did a massage. We would do heat. Everything would work a little bit, and then it would come back. He went from daily headaches to once every second day, but it was like clockwork. Oh, today's a day I'm getting a headache. Tomorrow I won't have a headache. The next day, I will have it again. We just knew it, and then it went once every three days.

And then we got to the point we were doing all these therapies, that it would be six days with no pain and the seventh day with pain. And they would come back again. The headache has been three times this week, and it might be two in the next week. But it was consistent from April to December when we got these patches. We made a little progress with all these therapies, throwing everything at him. I even listed everything we threw at him, but he still had them. 

So, we get these patches and do the pain protocol. There's a patch for decreasing inflammation and patches for pain, and we put them on. And by the way, he stopped taking drugs like Advil and Tylenol. So every drug you could think of, he tried. I don't like taking pain meds, but he was in so much pain, he just needed some relief, and no pain meds touched the pain. That was bizarre. It wouldn't make it go away. So he just stopped taking them. He's like, well, the pain meds don't work. So I'm going to have to deal with it. But we kept being in action, trying to get rid of this headache. 

So as I said, we got these patches. His shoulders get increasingly tense, and he can feel the headache coming on. So we put the patches on, and he said, within minutes, he felt like he took Advil, but it worked; it kicked in. It feels as if he had taken pain meds, which were supposed to take away the pain. So we would put them in a specific pattern on his upper traps, and we played around with their placement of them. These patches would reduce the pain significantly within five to six minutes of having them on. Sometimes, if he did it soon enough, like at the beginning of a headache, it would just feel like it wouldn't manifest. 

[0:33:14.4] Trina Hammack: Wow. 

[0:33:15.4] Ashley James: And he's been doing that. He doesn't do the pain patches every day. He does the patches for increasing stem cells and decreasing inflammation, having energy flow correctly, like you said, through the body and the meridians. He's doing the patches that stimulate the body's ability to heal itself. His headaches have stopped. 

So I'm trying to think back to his last headache. It's been a few weeks since he said, oh, I feel like one is coming. This was about three weeks ago, right before Christmas. He put the pain patches on, and it was gone. So he hasn’t had one fully manifest in many weeks. But, as I said, it was daily, then weekly, and multiple times a week. Sometimes we would go six days without one, but that was rare. It was like two, three, four times a week. And these patches have been the single most effective way of getting rid of it.

The second thing with him was making repetitive motions involving his foot, which would hurt. What's funny is my husband, and I usually get the same problem. So he broke his foot, and I had a different injury that hurt my foot. But he’s like, I'm going to try these patches on my feet. So we looked up the protocol because, as you said, there are over eighty specific protocols. So we looked up the protocol, he did it, and he said, I didn't think I'd be able to walk. Today was so painful. And within minutes of putting it on, he's like, I can walk. This is amazing! 

And then I hurt my foot. You could see the inflammation on my foot. This was two days before the Christmas concert. I'm in the choir, and we were going to sing. We were doing a huge Christmas concert for over a thousand people. I was going to be standing for hours. They took our seats, so we had to stand the whole time. I was terrified. My foot is inflamed, and it's excruciating. I'm not going to be able to do this. Then the day before the Christmas concert, we were doing a full-day practice, so I had to stand for two days.

So, I put these patches on to decrease inflammation and pain. You know the feeling when you had an injury, but it was like two or three weeks ago, and it's just a little achy, but it's getting better. That’s the feeling I got after a few minutes of putting them on. This stuff is fantastic. It’s amazing! I rarely have injuries or pain, so I don't often need to use something for pain. But that was, for me, incredible. I also put patches on my back because I just wanted to ensure that I didn't have any back stiffness from standing for two days straight in a restricted place in the choir. I was able to stand, and I had abundant energy. I was able to do the whole thing. I thought I’d be shot because standing and performing for two days is exhausting. Afterward, I was like, hey, let's go out. Let's take the kids out to the play area. Let’s do this, let’s do that. I didn't even want to go home afterward. I just had so much energy for the rest of the day. So that’s what this has helped me with. It has helped me with this abundance of endurance, even beyond what I get from supplements and all these other things. 

So then, I woke up with a headache. When you wake up, you're just like, ” Oh, I slept wrong. I barely get headaches, but I'm like, hey if this is working for Duffy, my husband, I'm going to try it for myself. The headache was getting worse and worse, so I finally put the patches on. It was around noon, and I had a playdate to take our son and other kids to the park. I don’t even know if I can handle a car full of kids, driving them for twenty minutes to a park. You don't want a headache and a bunch of kids screaming in a car, yelling, singing, or whatever. They’re not going to be quiet. So that’s one thing we know they’re not going to do. 

So I put the patches, just like I've been doing on my husband for his headaches. So I put them on, and within a minute, it felt like I had taken drugs like Advil or something. It felt like something had kicked in. As I'm driving to the park, I notice the headache is gone, but the tension’s not gone. All I'm feeling is a lot of tension in my shoulders, but there's no pain anymore. By the time we left the park to come back home, the tension was gone. And I was like, this is so cool. So I've had to experience it personally where the pain is gone away. My husband's chronic headache is significantly better; he hasn't had one in weeks. 

Then our close family member went from feeling distressed, worried, and afraid daily. She's on multiple medications for it. She's just feeling overwhelmed with dread. She doesn't sleep at night but naps all the time during the day. So with this family member, I was like, let's patch you up. So we did the protocol for anxiety, and she felt calm, and the worry subsided. We've done the protocols for balancing the vagus nerve, and she functions better throughout the day. We did the protocol for sleep, and then we did the protocol for energy. She typically naps after every activity. She'll go grocery shopping and take a nap. Then she’ll clean the house and take a nap. She naps all day long. We will visit her, and then she'll be like, I did lie down and took a nap. So it's just been nap, nap, nap. This last week, she had a lot to do, and we're going to do the patches for adrenal function and increasing energy in the body and the flow of energy in the body. So we do this. The entire day, she did a bunch of stuff with no naps. She's sleeping better, and she's waking up happier. There are fewer occurrences of feeling dread and worried. It’s far less, and she's generally in a much better mood.

Then we're watching her because of this, and she’s starting to make better choices for herself and no longer wants to drink alcohol. She wants to actually go out and socialize and wants to go to exercise classes or be with friends. We're just starting. Because it shifted her mood, she's making these progressively better choices for herself, and we've seen this.

For our son, we put the hat on him, but he keeps it on for only a short time. I asked him, what do you feel when you have this on you? He goes, this is my idea hat. It gives me so many ideas. My mind is filled with these amazing ideas. I want to draw and create. So he calls it his idea hat. But we do keep it on him a bit. Although he is fantastic at schoolwork, we noticed he could sit down and do more math. And that was a thing for me; if I could get him to sit down and complete his math work, that's his least favorite thing to do, although he's good at it. He could go from doing one or two pages of math work in an hour to six to nine pages in an hour. The math work only gets more challenging and not easier. So I see on several levels that it is working. 

A friend of mine's stepfather is on daily dialysis, and they did some blood tests to see his stem cells. I'm not sure why; I will get more information about it. But she said he's been using the patches and seeing great results. He’s been wearing the patch that increases stem cells in the body. So I have a few friends who have been using them all, noticing more energy, getting better sleep, and generally functioning better. But I love that I have more stamina, and I generally feel like I'm in a better mood, and my nervous system feels like it's healed. It feels like it's functioning better. I haven't had any more occurrences of PTSD since starting to use it, and that's been over a month that I've been using them. 

[0:41:50.2] Trisha Hammack: I have the biggest smile on my face hearing your stories. I think it’s incredible. It's just so wonderful to restore your health and see results quickly. 

[0:42:04.2] Ashley James: This morning, I put on a new patch that I've never tried before. We just got it in the mail, and it's for mood enhancement. I wasn't in a bad mood, but I'm like, hey, give me the new batch. I want to see what it does. So all of us, even our son, is like, I want to try. We all woke up in a good mood. It's a Saturday morning, and we all feel great. But I want to try it. 

I guess I’m sensitive to energy, and I feel things. Some people would call this a placebo effect, but I did not believe so. I love trying new things because I'm also so skeptical. I don't think that they're going to work or not work. So I don't know if it's going to work. I even said to Duffy as he handed it to me, I'm in a good mood, and I don't even know if this will do anything. So I put it on, and almost immediately, I go, wow, I can feel a lightness. I feel this lightness in me that feels nice. 

Because we eat fruit or something for breakfast, I’ve gotten into the habit of every morning, before, during, or after breakfast, where we'll just be sitting on the couch with our son doing English work, and reading together. We just get it done. Let's get some schoolwork out of the way before we start our day. We're sitting there and both in such a good mood together. I’m not saying that we aren't usually, but it was just, wow! This is the mood enhancer one, and it is neat. So I'm wearing it today for the first time and experiencing it, and I'm looking forward to trying it out with some other friends and seeing how they like this one. 

But what I liked were the protocols. I have talked to several friends doing these patches for a while. They weren't taught because they're not part of this group that has these proprietary protocols of over eighty different protocols that combine Chinese medicine, acupuncture points, and where you put the patches. And I have played around with them, and it makes a big difference where you put them. 

You talked about how they are activated. And when I looked into the science, I was like, am I absorbing anything? What's going on? Why is this working? Why is it working through hair? You put the patches on a hat. Why is it working through hair? The body emits light. We can't see the light spectrum, but specific cameras, like night vision cameras, can pick up this light. Our body emits a light wave, and the patches are designed to bounce back this light wave back into the body at a specific frequency, stimulating the body to create these new peptides and new stem cells. It naturally triggers the body, which is called photon light therapy. And that's precisely what it does, so you’re not absorbing anything. 

You wear them for twelve hours, and most of the time when you're wearing them, people don't see them because they're under your clothes. So I'm okay with wearing them where people can see them because I'm getting results. Then I’ve had people go, oh, what’s that? I say it’s like acupuncture. And I start talking about it, and they’re super interested. So I loved that. Most of the time, people don't even see them because they’re on your back, under your belly button, or on your shoulder, so they don't see it. 

So do you want to talk more about the science behind it? Because, yes, it was designed originally for the military. It's been around for twenty years, and people have had phenomenal results. I love that this company has invested so much money into science. There's proof that this increases bone density, health, and muscle mass. 

Oh, I've got one more testimonial. So ever since my last pregnancy, I've had a problem where my right leg is far weaker than my left leg. I've gone two months with physical therapy, weekly chiropractic, and acupuncture. I've been throwing everything at this. I thought going to the weekly physical therapy, and all the exercises they give me would fix it. Every doctor I visited said, “Oh yeah, this is because this is pinching this nerve. You have to stretch this out and strengthen this.” And I've been doing it all. But we live in a two-story townhouse, and walking up the stairs, I've been taking it one leg at a time. Because this leg is so weak, I just thought it was bizarre, but it’s ever since the injury from that pregnancy. Sometimes, it'll take me a few minutes to get up because I'm just going to force myself to use the weak leg to strengthen it. It’s like the signals from the brain are not getting to the muscles. Something's not working right. I don't know. Is it weak muscles? Is it an impinged blood supply? 

Every doctor had a different explanation. And it’s not that big of a deal. I don't have pain from it. It's just more of an annoyance because every time I walk up the stairs multiple times a day, it reminds me that something is not whole in my body. That brings on thoughts of shame and guilt, like, what am I doing wrong? Like, I’m such a healthy person. What's going on? I need to work harder on this. Walking up and down the stairs has been a struggle. 

A week after wearing these patches, we were doing a bunch of laundry, and I remember we had the music on. We were all in high gear, like, let’s clean the house. And I ran up the stairs. I get to the top landing and like, what just happened? I just noticed that the weakness in the leg was gone. This reminds me of the time when I went from being super weak with both my legs to having the energy signals get to the muscles. The muscles are working. This is great. Ever since I started wearing these patches, I've noticed that I can run up and down the stairs and that weakness in the right leg is not there like it was. As I said, it was so bad that I had to take one step at a time. So that’s my other testimonial. They have hundreds of studies on increased muscle mass and increased bone density. So there are effects of anti-aging, looking younger and better. 

I just realized I'm doing all the talking. I need to end the talking, but I'm just excited. I've waited over a month to share this with the listeners. I'm going to stop talking. Tell us more about the science behind it. 

[0:48:52.0] Trina Hammack: I taught science way back in the day, so I love that this is backed by real science. A research study is on increasing glutathione levels in the body or hormones or strengthening your DNA. There is study after study that backs this up. You can't deny it when you also bring in experiences like this and see it happen before your eyes. What was going on with all the examples you gave was that there were blockages in the acupuncture meridian flow. You open that flow back up, and then energy could move. So then you felt better, the pain went away, and brain function returned.

The website has studies about osteoarthritis and double-blind placebo pain relief studies. The studies continue, and David Schmidt is entirely dedicated to having this backed by true science. 

So you know, we are emitting infrared light. You can't see it, but it's there and activates this crystalline structure inside the patch, which has amino acids and certain frequencies of peptides. I look at it like a frequency device, like my frequency-specific microcurrent, my BEMER, or my SCIO. It’s a frequency type of medicine that you can do at home. You don't need to have fancy schmancy equipment. You can slap a patch on it and feel how things shift as the energy opens up in the body. 

Many people are chronically ill because their energy is running backwards through their bodies, and they don't even know it. It would be like the equivalent of the electricity going backward through your house and blowing out your fuse box. And when you're in a chronic situation like I was when we were moldy, you couldn't quite snap out of it. This helps correct the flow, so it moves in the right direction. And we have a system that you know about now, where we check that energetic flow. We can check to see if it's running backwards or not, and then we can correct it with a specific correcting polarity patching protocol. 

I learned about this one the hard way. We were up at our house in Mount Shasta a few years ago, and it was in the summer, and our AC system went out upstairs. Downstairs was okay, but upstairs went out, and it was 115 degrees. I went into vertigo for three days, and literally I didn't know about polarity and that I could change it with a patch. I had just started using the patches. And so, for three days, I'm lying in bed. What do I do? And then, I reached out to a senior practitioner or the one who writes all our protocols, by the way. She's a master at this and said your polarity is backward. And so she had me do this simple protocol with five patches I put on for fifteen minutes, and then guess what? Boom! It was gone. My vertigo was gone after three days. It’s because the heat triggered my nervous system to go into overload, and my energy started running backward, so I had vertigo. It was incredible.

So now I teach all my people, as I taught you, how to check and correct their polarity and then re-train the body so that the energetics run the right way through your system and your meridian and open up blockages. When you got pain, you get a blockage. We can open that up and get things moving again. So we go through a little process of opening up and correcting the polarity, and then we start building a foundation, get the brain function going, and get your adrenals and kidneys stronger. You can see inflammation go down. The adrenals help to keep the inflammation down. Mine were trashed, and my kidneys from mold. And a lot of moldies have really poor energy. The first one I ever did was an adrenal kidney protocol, and I felt better. 

[0:53:48.6] Ashley James: I love that protocol. 

[0:53:50.3] Trina Hammack: Isn’t it amazing? 

[0:53:51.2] Ashley James: I love it, yes. I didn't want to do the polarity thing. I don’t want to jump right into that. I did the polarity thing because you told me to. I don't know why; maybe it’s my intuition, but I was super excited and totally drawn to the kidney adrenal protocol. I can’t wait to do that one. And then there's the other one I really want to jump into, which is the metabolism one that increases muscle mass, supports the body, burns fat, increases energy, and increases leg muscle mass. So I really want to get to that one. But you told me there's an order to things. We want to ensure that we’re getting the polarity together and the energy up in the body, like the adrenals. So we want to ensure that the body’s detoxification pathways are open. And you can get to this other fun one. 

So I have gone through the steps. I'm glad I listened to you because I felt a shift and difference each step of the way. But I love that energy one. And now, I like doing the advanced energy protocol one, and I get even more to that one. 

[0:55:00.9] Trina Hammack: Yeah. 

[0:55:01.8] Ashley James: I feel it. As I said, I survived two days of standing and singing with that one. We've been a very professional choir, and it was intense. It was like doing a marathon for singing, and I could not believe I was like, go, go, go. I felt so great. Even the next day, I didn’t feel like I was thrashed. I didn’t feel like I’d been through something big. I was like, okay, another day. I was expecting to feel trashed from being so active. Being onstage, singing, and standing for hours to perform in front of a thousand people, takes a lot out of you to give it your all. I was expecting to be trashed. I did that protocol and felt amazing the next day, the next day, and the next. It didn't even affect me.   

Oh, one more thing. I keep thinking of testimonials. We did a really intense walk around Greenlake. It was 2.8 miles. My butt was burning because I was trying to keep up with my husband. My husband is almost 6 ft 7 with very long legs. One stride of his is a one-half stride of mine, so I was keeping up with him. Our son was on a scooter, so we were trying to keep up with him because if we didn't, he would be chasing the ducks in the lake any second. Oh my gosh, it’s like having a golden retriever. We take him to the park, and I look at all the people with their pets. Our son is intelligent, loving, and smart, and people often think he's ten or eleven years old just because he's so mature. But you bring him to a park with a bunch of dogs, a ton of ducks, and a shallow lake, and he wants to go chase. It was January, and it was cold, and he asked me, did you bring my towel? It seemed to me he was going swimming. I'm like, sweetie, you can't go in the lake. No! So he is off chasing the ducks, petting the dogs, and running down the dock. There are several docks. He thinks he's going to go swimming. So we had to keep up with him. So we're like pumping our legs, which is a great exercise. It's like the car right in front of you, but it’s us chasing our son for 2.8 miles. My butt was burning. You know that feeling when it is like you’re anaerobic and making lactic acid? 

[0:57:31.6] Trina Hammack: Oh, yeah.

[0:57:32.5] Ashley James: And we were go, go, go, go. And then I thought I would feel this the next day. Then the next day happened, and this was just this week, but I didn't feel it. I thought for sure I was going to feel soreness or something. Then I’m like, sometimes it’s not the next day, but the day after. And the day after was Thursday. I thought, for sure, I was going to wake up feeling sore on Thursday. I woke up on Thursday, and no problem. I'm like, what? I don't even feel that I walked. I was doing 2.8 miles around this lake, chasing our son, and I didn't even feel it. That was huge because, before these patches, I'd go to the gym and feel it. At least you’d feel like you did something the next day. I didn't even feel like I pushed myself. I'm going to have to force myself harder. So I know I am doing all these other things, like eating healthy, taking supplements, and doing everything, but I would still feel sore after a workout even with all these good things I'm doing. Since I started patches, I don't feel sore after a workout. There you are; that's another thing I just realized that was different. 

[0:58:41.7] Trina Hammack: I’ve got another one for you. My husband had two wisdom teeth and a molar taken out 48 hours ago, and in under 24 hours, all his pain and inflammation were gone with just patching. You can't even tell; it's just incredible. He slept off the anesthesia, and then we had him all patched up. There was no inflammation or pain. He'll heal a million times faster. It’s pretty incredible.

[0:59:20.2] Ashley James: I love that. Do you have any other stories of success from your clients? I remember that there was a baby I saw. I know you have this private Facebook group for listeners; if you want to try these patches, you might do it. We can get you on that. We could add you to the Facebook group. But there is a woman who had a baby with teething, and she took before and after pictures. She said it was four minutes. And she put the patches on the baby’s jaw for pain and to calm the nervous system. The baby went from full-on freak out from teething to sleeping in four minutes of wearing the patches. So to hear that your husband has no pain inflammation and feels great…

[1:00:08.6] Trina Hammack: Three teeth were extracted. It was intense, and we didn't take any pain meds. We just patched it. But I have one gal come in, and she had neuropathy in her thighs from chemo, and she was bone on bone in her hips, and she would wear these tiny high heels or these tall high heels that were skinny. And I’m like, how do you do that? She was in constant pain in her hips, and her thighs were on fire with pain from the chemo. And so she came in and didn't know how to patch yet. That's why she brought her patches over, and I patched her thighs. And the next thing I know, she's standing up and down, no problem. She had a hard time sitting in her chair; the next thing you know, she was up, down, up, down. Like, hey, how are you doing? Oh, I'm great! And she didn't even think twice because the pain was gone and just disappeared. So we opened the channels and got the energy to move, so it wasn't stagnant and moving backward.

Another gal called me, and she had patches. She called me freaking out with major panic attacks and anxiety and said, I don't know what to do. She couldn't even think. So I had her do the anxiety protocol on the wrist, and we got two of them placed on the phone. They're six, and we only had two on, and she said, hey, can I already be feeling better? She was already calm with two of the six patches. They can work that fast. I've seen swollen ankles. I still do Rolfing bodywork, and people will come in with sprained ankles. I'll pop a patch on there, and you'll watch the inflammation go down. And you can see the ring where the inflammation was in a matter of minutes and then where it is now. You're getting things to flow, and I see it every day; we use them. We have an excellent protocol for people in our weight loss program to help them burn more fat. Studies show that the energy patches can increase your fat burning by 23%. Hey, who wouldn't want that? We incorporate them into almost every protocol, whether people are moldy, have anxiety, or have a lot of GI issues. We’ve even seen parasites come out.

[1:02:47.1] Ashley James: I’ve got another one for you. I just remembered. Okay, so my husband is a trooper for tagging along with all my health stuff. But he's also a guy. We have this joke because he'll do something like your stereotypical man, and I'm like, why did you do that? He's like, a was being a typical man. He kind of like that he’s got a cape on. When I met him, he didn't have fat on his body. But he always looked like Bart Simpson. He would have that big, bloated gut. But he is so tall that you don't see it. He's always got this nine-month pregnant gut, despite not being overweight. And he's changed his diet throughout the years, which was at first like pulling teeth. He had an addiction to dairy. Who wants to give up cheese? But he did, and then he saw the results. He stopped being gassy. He's like, woah, that's amazing. He gave up gluten. He lost 25 pounds of water weight. He’s like, wow, I feel so much better, so I’m not going to diet anymore. So one at a time, we took away sugar. That was the first thing we took away from him. 

When he met me, I got him off alcohol, and he was an alcoholic. I don't have any alcohol in the house. I'm an oddity. I just think alcohol is poison. If you're going to drink, just maybe once a year. So it was alcohol and sugar. Caffeine is kind of an on-and-off thing for him. He's like, give me this one thing, okay. It’s just one pleasure that I have left. So we've taken away everything gluten and dairy. He got progressively healthier with his choices, like adding more vegetables. And it's funny because he got really upset with me the other day because I added more vegetables to his meal, and he's like, what are you doing in my dinner? I look at him, and I’m like, you are vegan. He's chosen to be vegan. Vegetables are the only food you have. So why are you angry at me? A few minutes later, he says this tastes pretty good. But he doesn't love eating all the vegetables. Like, he's still a guy, so he just wanted to have his beans and make it taste like a taco; you still want him to eat that.

But we know he's had some gut issues, and we had him tested for SIBO, and things like that, for small intestine bacterial overgrowth. I just suspected candida for a long time. I interviewed an amazing doctor on candida, Dr. Michael Biamonte. So Duffy decided to work with him and his telemedicine. He decided to do the Candida diet even though he's vegan. So this is eating non-starchy vegetables. That's his life right now, and he's doing it. So he stopped eating all the foods that bloat him. So he's doing this Candida thing. But right before he started on this, he would eat like four bowls of rice or something starchy like a bowl of rice and beans or potatoes. His gut would be hard as a rock, and you could knock on it. It would be hard, and he’d be just so uncomfortable. And it's all gas and inflammation in there. Even though he's eating organic, clean whole foods, it was still feeding the candida, and we had him tested by Dr. Michael Biamonte. Sure enough, it was just tons of overgrowth of candida that's been the problem. But right before he got on the Candida Diet, he ate a bunch of rice, and of course, he was totally bloated.

I've been studying the patching protocols. As you said, our group has over eighty patching protocols, and I've been studying them. I said, hey, there's a gut health one, and he goes, I'm going to try that tomorrow. He got super excited. Now we know, like clockwork, if he eats four bowls of brown rice, he will be hard as a rock bloated the whole day. It's not like there’s a day he eats rice and isn't bloated; it's every time. So he puts the patches around his bloated stomach. Another thing, we never hear any noise from his stomach, like gurgling or anything. We usually don't hear anything yet, which is surprising because it looks like it's just full of air. And you start to hear the stomach making noise after putting the patch. It has lots of gurgling like something's moving, and we're like, what's up with that? And then he's, like, I will eat the same stuff I did yesterday and see if I react. He's so excited, and he’d go to the kitchen, like, let's do some science experiments. And he eats the same food he ate the day before, and his stomach stays soft. It didn't bloat, and he got super excited. 

Now, he's in the middle of his candida protocol. He’s doing well and not bloated. Of course, he's not using the foods feeding the candida, and he's been taking all the supplements that kill candida that strip the biofilm out of his body. But he's been doing the gut healing protocol, which he felt the difference. And he loves the energy protocol. He loves the anxiety and sleep protocol, and there's one for the pineal gland. So he walks around with the patch on his forehead, like, no shame. And he loves sleeping with that one. He's having so much fun with it. As a man, he does not look pleased and said I took them away. But I have shown him the information; he says I can't drink alcohol after knowing what it does to my body. And I can't eat sugar after knowing what it does to my body, or milk or something like that. I can't do these things to myself. So he's chosen to eat healthier and healthier, taking away all these bad choices in his life. Now, he’s just loving it. I've never seen him more excited with two things — the patches and structured water we've been using. Those are the two things he's super passionate about, and I've never seen him take it off. I think if you give someone like a family member, even a husband who doesn't like to do health stuff, and you provide them with a result, like, let's take away a headache, let's give you more energy. Let's give you better sleep. If you do that by just putting some patches on them, they get excited about it and want to keep doing it. And it's an easy shift. 

So like I said, our family member, who we've been giving these patches, started feeling so good. She started making better choices for herself. That's motivating because we love our family so much, but we can't make them do healthy things as much as we want to. But if they are feeling better and better, sometimes they make better choices for themselves.

[1:09:55.6] Trina Hammack: Yes, they want to and may not even understand why. But it makes you want to strive to improve and make better choices. I see it all the time, yeah. My husband patches, and he's bone on bone on his knee, and he's a golf marshal. So he's in there on the golf course all day long and in zero pain. So yes, there's got to be something going on here. They recently came out with these two aromatherapy mists, which have been shown clinically to raise testosterone levels. 

[1:09:55.6] Ashley James: What?

[1:10:36.3] Trina Hammack: Yeah, and guess what? You said earlier that the base is structured water, herbs, and some essential oils, which you spray on your wrist. There's one at night, and you breathe in seven or eight times. I thought I was sleeping well, and I was, but when I started using the one before bed, it took my sleep to a deeper level, and now I have more lucid dreams. It’s pretty cool. So I thought I was at the top of my game with my sleep; now, it's even better. I can't wait to go to sleep because it's just amazing. So yeah, we have some great tools at our fingertips, and I love sharing these. 

[1:11:26.8] Ashley James: I'm not a vain person. I only wear makeup when I have to, and the makeup I have is clean, with no toxic makeup. I can't cry with this mascara because mascara’s made of tree bark; I don't know what. But when I wear makeup, it's clean, non-toxic makeup. I'm very picky, but I only wear it if I have to. I don't even like washing my face. I just rinse it with water. I don't like disrupting the microbiome of my body. Some people use soap on their face twice a day, or cleansers and stuff like that. You're just stripping the body of the oils. 

I grew up being a tomgirl, like a real nature-crunchy person. And I believe in letting natural beauty shine through. So when I look in the mirror, I don't want to see a bunch of wrinkles. I'm in my forties and don't want to look like I'm in my 50s. So when I'm in my fifties, I want to look like I'm in my 40s. I want to keep protecting the skin, so I'm 5% vain. But when I look in the mirror, I know my health shines through in my skin. And I want to have clear, beautiful skin. So I like feeling moist skin, especially in the winter when it's really dry. I like putting moisturizer on. 

I found it hard to get good-quality moisturizers because I'm very picky with ingredients. There are only a handful of companies that I trust, and I've tried. They did come out with this one, and I always ask, why wouldn't a health company come out with a face cream? I'm like, why? Why don't you guys do that? You guys are not in the beauty business. You're in the healing business. So when are you coming in with face cream? And I have seen this with other holistic companies; they do this. So why are you guys not doing this? And then I tried the cream, and like, oh, it's because you guys got something this good. So I'm just going to try the cream because I saw some testimonials, and one was a video testimonial of a gorgeous woman. By the way, she has no makeup on, and her skin is amazing. And then she says her age is seventy-five. I'm like, what? She's been using this like forever, and she looks like she might be in her fifties. She's gorgeous, and you would not believe that she's seventy-five. Like, okay, fine, I'll give this a try. And the cream works in conjunction with a patch that stimulates the collagen and elastin and stimulates the skin to hold more water, be moister, and have fewer fine lines and wrinkles. But just structurally, on a cellular level, be healthier. There's a day cream and night cream, and I tried it out. I am in love with the smell of it. First of all, it's great and very hydrating. It's not oily. But I'm in love with the scent. It's just like five different essential oils, and it's very light. You can't smell it if it's on someone five feet away from you. It's not like perfume. It's just like a hint of essential oils.

So my husband comes up to kiss me and asks, what is that smell? And he starts muzzling me and kissing me all over. He was, what is that smell? We’ve been married for almost 15 years, and this is the first time I've ever worn an aphrodisiac. He loves that. I have to put it on now because he comes to bed, and he's like, oh, you're wearing it, and he smiles at me. Whatever blend of essential oils it is, it is an aphrodisiac, and I love it too. It smells like maybe a little bit of Rosemary and vanilla, and there's this hint of orange. I can't quite place it. But it's not like this artificial smell, which I'm so thankful for because I don't put artificial fragrances on my body. It just smells like nature, though it was an aphrodisiac. So there's like a little bonus. But I love how it feels on my skin, and I love the results, and I'm looking forward to fifty when I'm seventy-five.

[1:15:30.5] Trina Hammack:  Me too, I love it. It's so light, and I don't like smelly products. If it stinks, it's out. I'm not going to use it. And the patch that comes with it not only repairs skin and increases collagen. This is the only product I know that has been shown clinically in research studies to lengthen telomeres. And when you lengthen your telomeres, you are reversing the aging process. That combination is just brilliant. It's just beautiful. 

[1:16:05.1] Ashley James: Yeah, what they discovered about telomeres is that it's the length of the end of the chromosome. And they figured out that telomeres are like when you cut down a tree and see the centrifugal rings, and you can count the rings, like, how old this tree was when you killed it. When you cut it down, you can see how old it was. That's like telomeres but in reverse. So they have a certain amount of length. Then as we age, every time the cell has to split and create new cells, the telomeres shorten. And the shorter the telomere, the expiration of your life is nearer your cellular age. So you're aging greater and greater by the shortness of the telomere. So if you lengthen your telomere, you are reversing cellular age on a DNA chromosomal level. 

I've been looking into telomeres for at least ten years now, as more and more research is coming out. And I find it fascinating that there are certain foods, key nutrients in extracts, and concentrations that have effects on telomeres. But then to take this phototherapy and be able to stimulate the body, the peptides, and whatever it's doing throughout the body to increase the telomeres; that's phenomenal. You can read all the science papers, and we'll link that in the podcast's show notes. So people can see the results better, like fewer fine and wrinkles and more muscle mass. And then they can even see a DEXA scan. There are so many testimonials of people with stronger bones, that they can see it through the cellular age-reversing. They can see in the mirror, and they can see it in the labs as well. 

[1:17:50.0] Trina Hammack:  When they came out with their second stem cell activating patch, I'm like, okay, yeah, we'll see. I'm skeptical even though I've been using them and was in love with them. The second patch that came out was for strengthening your muscles and increasing stamina and strength. So I said, let's see what happens if I do a really hard spin class and how I feel afterward. I picked the most challenging class I could find on my Peloton and put both kinds of stem cell patches on. And I sailed through that class. Then I just got off the bike and carried on. I used to crawl off the bike and say, hey, sweetie, where's my shake? And I just got up and kept going. My strength, stamina, and all of that have been phenomenal for my overall health and athletic ability. It's just been amazing.

[1:18:51.6] Ashely James: Oh, you were going to teach us how to do polarity. 

[1:18:57.6] Trina Hammack: Yes, so we talked about how energy runs through the body. So I do a lot of frequency work here, correcting frequencies that are off when you're ill. Your body, organs, or glands may not be coming at the right frequency, so I'll use frequencies to correct them. Well, patches do that too. But if you're chronically ill like I was with Lyme, mold, and even ovarian cancer, my energy was running backwards. 

And there's a simple way to check to see if your polarity is backwards or if it's correct. You can do it right now. It takes about 30 seconds to do. You stand up and put your feet together so they're touching. I usually do it barefoot. And then you take your dominant hand, place it palm down a couple of inches above your head, and just close your eyes. Relax your body and breathe, and feel which way your body wants to sway. Does it want to go from the left to the right for back circles? What way does your body naturally want to go? And then once you get that, flip the palm so it faces toward the ceiling, relax and see which way your body wants to sway. For most people, their energy will be reversed and go every which way except correct. Now, with correct polarity, if your energy runs properly through your body, when you have your palm facing down above your head, you should sway forward. It may be a little sway or a big one. Once I corrected it, I sway big now. But face down with the palm, you go forward and face up with the palm, you should sway backwards. Any other combination tells you that your polarity is incorrect. 

So we use our correcting polarity protocol and follow it up with a protocol called 4 Gates that many acupuncturists use. It’s common for them to get energy moving in the right direction. You want to teach your body to move in this direction continuously. So the longer I patched, the harder it was to throw me off and to reverse my polarity. It just doesn't happen anymore. Or, as when I was sick with mold, I was reversed quite a bit and had chronic pain. So I had anxiety through the roof. So I put my patches on, and it would stop on a dime just like that. So, checking and correcting your polarity is essential to ensure you get the most out of your protocols. 

[1:21:55.6] Ashley James: You've been doing this with your clients. What do people notice when their polarities are corrected? Do they come back and tell you? 

[1:22:04.7] Trina Hammack:  They are more relaxed, have less pain, and feel more grounded and centered. They’re sleeping better. Their chronic issues are starting to shift. Like I say, it's like your electricity is running backwards to your house and blows out your fuse box and your nervous system. So this helps diffuse that static in your nervous system, making you feel calmer and more centered. You can handle the day more efficiently. It's like what you were feeling. You can see the overwhelm. You start to hold that more and more. You start holding your polarity correctly, and everything starts to be easier. Then you want to make changes, like your family member. As she starts to feel better, she starts to make better choices. You see a lot of shifts like that. And they start feeling better overall. 

[1:23:12.6] Ashley James: So, there are the skeptics. I know I've had, for example, some Christian listeners who feel weary of anything to do with energy work. I fully agree that there is evil in the world, and there's good in the world. As Christians, we've been warned not to go down this path. So, for example, don't go down the new age path because there are a lot of bad spirits if you go down this path and want to stick to a righteous path. So when we go into holistic medicine, it is a buffet. It's a free-for-all. If you are one religion, you might end up stepping into an area where you wonder if it’s a gray zone.

When it comes to energy work, although some people doubt, for example, the use of crystals, pendulums, and things like that; for some people, they're like, rock on. Others, especially Christians, and Catholics, are like, no, that sounds like contacting spirits, and I'm not into that. No way. I'm not even going to touch that with a ten-foot pole. For many people, anything to do with energy work, I'm going to say, it’s not what I'm doing because I'm nervous I might accidentally step over into the gray zone. So I want to be respectful of everyone's religious and spiritual beliefs. This energy we were talking about is not spiritual, and I am a spiritual person. I am a Christian. But I've experienced energy in my life in many capacities. This is not the spiritual energy we’re talking about. Although if you're communing with the Holy Spirit, then rock on. That's an energy I want to be part of. 

So for those who are into Reiki, that's a form of energy work. So there are all kinds of “spiritual healing” and energies. This is not what we're talking about. This is actual physical energy. You can't see it with your eyes, but it's like you look up in the sky; and I'm going to tell you that there's air current right now, like the air stream is above you. You cannot see it with your eyes, but it's there. And with specific equipment, we could test and show you that the air stream is above your head and that there's an air current. So you have energy flowing in and around your body, and there's a way to test it. 

So if you were to, God forbid, go to the ER because you have some symptoms, such as heart or brain issues, they would hook you up to machines, and these machines would read the energy signatures from your heart and your brain. So we have energy that can be picked up and read by machines in a hospital. So it's a state-of-the-art Western medicine. 

Then we have energy that flows to the body that's part of a 5000-year-old or more ancient way of healing that has been proven repeatedly to be effective in terms of acupuncture. So in traditional Chinese medicine, they've observed for thousands of years that the body has a flow in which we can see veins flowing through the body. We can see blood flowing through the body and invading our arteries. You can see lymph flow. And then this is something you can't see, but we definitely experience. Because when you go to acupuncture, and they put a needle in your wrist, you'll feel it somewhere else in your body because it's connecting. 

I have a great side story. When I was pregnant with our son, he wanted to come out feet first. He's always wanted to hit the ground running, which is his personality. And so he wanted to come out feet first, and he was facing forward. So, if you can imagine, his feet were down, and he was facing forward. He'd push his head up to my heart or push it out. But that's how he was, and he's a long kid, like 22 inches. He's a big boy inside me. He wasn't heavy. He was 70 pounds or something. He wasn't heavy, but he was long. And he was coming out feet first, and I did not want to have a C-section.  

I had a midwife that then transferred me to an OBGYN at 36 weeks. So I'm almost at 40 weeks. I'm almost at the time of delivery. And this OB is like your traditional Western medicine method. She has a drug pad in one hand. She's an OB and says you should go for acupuncture. I nearly fell off the table because I was not expecting that. And she goes, many studies show that acupuncture is very beneficial for reversing a breech pregnancy. So I found an amazing woman. Her name is Jasmine Bay. If you're in the Seattle area, she's well-known as the woman to go to if you are pregnant. She does a little family medicine, but for the most part, she does acupuncture for pregnancies. So she flips babies, basically. 

So I go down, and she puts two little needles in my ankles. I was lying on the table and propped up a bit, so I was more like sitting back on the table. And she says these points are the energy points that travel up. It's like a button on your body that travels up. The energy travels up into the uterus and tells the baby to spin the energy in the other direction. The baby feels it, and it turns. I'm looking at her like, are you kidding me? Again, I'm an open-minded skeptic. I love new things, but I'm also not believing at the same time. So when things were happening, I was like, this is so cool. I'm just sitting there believing it would work because I didn't want to have a C-section.

As I'm lying there, it's been less than 15 minutes, and our son pushes his head up like something out of an alien movie and turns halfway. And we watched it happen. He pushes up and turns. And by the time we got out of there, he had turned the rest of the way. We hadn't even reached home yet; he finished turning the rest of the way and stayed turned in the correct position. I've loved acupuncture my whole life, but that was like, are you kidding me? I was sold. 

So, when it comes to energy channels in the body, I believe they exist, and I've experienced them personally. And using these photon therapy patches and specific patterns to go along with acupuncture protocols gives you incredible and better results than if you just put the patch wherever you wanted. So even though they've done studies and shown that the patches work no matter where you put them, when you put them in conjunction with the meridian and energy points, we're seeing much more significant results in our group. 

[1:31:00.2] Trina Hammack: Yeah, that's for sure. I have everybody in my practice go into the group and learn these protocols because there's no other place to get them. This is the only group on the planet that has them. And I feel like God led me to this group, honestly, so we would have these resources to help more people. And on another side note, I had acupuncture while in labor. My acupuncturist came to the hospital. He put in two needles, and I stood up, and my water broke just like that. So I'm like, oh, thank you, David. 

So yeah, it does work. Pregnant women use these patches to help them through their pregnancy for many reasons. And those points on the ankles that your gal stimulated with the needles, we do not patch those for pregnant women because we don't want them to have the baby early. 

[1:31:58.7] Ashley James: Yeah, absolutely. It's good to work when you're using this in certain circumstances. It's good to work with someone trained in them and who studied the protocol. I've been studying the protocols; you've done it for years. And then we've access to this community of practitioners who do these protocols. And I love that this group shares testimonies. I love using the search function in the group and going through testimonial after testimonial. 

There are over fifty thousand people in this group, and they're sharing so many testimonials of success. And then people come in and ask their questions to you, like, hey, I've got this problem. What should I do? And then there's a bunch of practitioners that jump in and share what patching protocols have worked for them. So that's how I figured out how to do the foot thing. Because I was like, I don't know if I'm able to stand, and I went into the group, then I typed in the foot problem I had, which was different for my husband since it was more of an ankle. But either way, it's close enough. But for both of us, it worked. And it's the same with headaches, digestion, energy, and sleeping. So it goes on and on. So I'm very excited about this. 

Are there any of the stories you wanted to share? Was there anything else you wanted to make sure that you conveyed?

[1:33:18.1] Trina Hammack: I like to empower my people with knowledge and tools that they can do themselves. I want them to be the strongest they can be so that they can do what they need to do in their life. And this is one of the best tools you can have at your fingertips that doesn't cost you a bazillion dollars to buy, you know, a new piece of equipment or something like that. Put one little patch on sometimes, and it can change everything. It's so empowering to know that you have this knowledge, and I'm so grateful that I gave them a try because, you know, I am a healthy skeptic. And I know that every day, my health gets better and stronger, and if something comes up, I've got a tool I can use and take with me everywhere. I patch everybody. I patch everything. And that little dog this morning, just watching her eyes change when I put this patch on her, and you could see it was like she was running around for years in PTSD. So when I met her and put the patch on, it just dissolved.

[1:34:33.7] Ashley James: It does calm the nervous system. 

[1:34:37.0] Trina Hammack: Oh my God. And then I put it on the woman whose dog it was. And I watched the same thing happen to her. And everybody in the pack is going to get better that way. Do you know what I mean? So, give it a try. It's incredible. Empower yourself with this technology. There's a lot to learn, but you can also keep it simple at the same time. 

[1:35:05.9] Ashley James: Yes. So that's why I'm here. I want to help you guys. And so if anyone wants to try this, if you heard it and something resonated with you, and you want to give it a shot. First of all, I love that they have a money-back guarantee and that they stand behind it. I've worked with a handful of companies that do that, and I remember how much money I wasted on supplements and different things. And then when it didn't work out, and then it's like, there are so many companies that won't stand behind their stuff. So, when there's a company that 100% stands behind its stuff, I'm more willing to give you a try. It makes me suspicious of companies that don't stand behind their stuff 100%. So I love that. But I want to work with anyone who's listening and wants to try this. So I want you to work with me. 

 If you go to and then in the menu, you'll see Ashley James. You click on “Work with Ashley James,” then set up a 15-minute free discovery call with me, and we will chat. I will help you pick out the proper protocols for you. I'm working with Trina, and then I'll get you into that private Facebook group where you can see all the protocols. You don't have to learn it all. I'm learning it all because I work with people as a health coach. But you can go to that group and learn for yourself. Type in your issues and then try it from there. You can sign up for a free talk with me, and I'll help you get on it. 

And Trina's always here to help. Trina even said that she'd be here in any capacity. I could always message her and say, hey, I've got a listener. It's this problem. What kind of patching protocol would help based on your experience? And you've been great because there was this one time right when we got our patches at the beginning of December; I remember we were out at a Christmas party, and one of my friends was crying. She's like, I don't know why I am so depressed all day. I'm in tears. This was a beautiful happy Christmas party we hosted for our homeschooled kids, and the kids had so much fun, and she couldn't stop crying. So I pulled her aside, and we sat down together. I was a shoulder for her and listened to her. There was so much going on for her. I guess it's because her family ostracized her and had a big fight with her extended family. So I messaged Trina, and I'm like, okay, I've got a mom that can't stop crying. What should I do? And you're like, take a deep breath. It's going to be okay. I know; I'm just so excited.

So we put the patches on for the vasovagal, for the vagus response to calm the nervous system. And this was right at the end of the party, so we were out in the parking lot. I put it on her, and I said okay. I hugged her and said, “Okay, you let me know how this works for you. She messaged me, and she goes, it's all gone. She goes, I don't know what came over me. I couldn't stop crying all day long and was so overwhelmed by sadness. After I put on the patches, it was just like she was back to her usual self. She's like, yeah, I feel like that's all gone. And she's been in a much better space since then.

I want to use them too, progressively, as I work through and heal things, grow, and get healthier and healthier. But it's also cool to have something in the medicine cabinet for emergencies, like dental surgery, or if someone just fell. It's having arnica at hand, something that decreases inflammation and takes pain immediately, and calms the nervous system immediately if you have an emotional upset. Just having some go-to for intense situations in life and seeing how fast it helps is phenomenal. So listeners, if you are interested, contact me and get on my schedule. Let's chat, and let me help you get hooked up with this. And then, for whatever reason, you're uncomfortable because sometimes people are shy being on the phone, and I get that; you can email me at If you don't hear from me, that means that it went to spam. I'm going to check my spam, but email me again. You can also find me on Facebook. You can go to the Facebook group It gets you there. You can message me on Facebook, or you can email me. You can go to, go to the tab, the Ashley tab in the menu, Ashley James, and then “Work with Ashley James.” And from there, you'll be able to sign up for a phone call. If you want a phone call, an email, or a message on Facebook, I'm here to help. 

I'd love to see you guys be able to experience these results. And then for those practitioners, because 20% of my listeners are practitioners, health coaches, dentists, and many outstanding practitioners, this stuff's incredible. I want to see dentists use the patches. Can you imagine if you could decrease anxiety right away? Put the patches on the specific protocol on the wrists, and it decreases anxiety right away. If you put the patches on the jaw, it helps to reduce pain and inflammation right away. I could see this affecting the dental industry hugely in such a positive way. And you could sell retail as a practitioner. But I'd prefer to help people get the wholesale discount, which I did, and I want you to as well. But again, as you said, it's not like you're buying an expensive energy machine, right? Like, I wanted to buy the BEMER mat that you lie on, but it's thousands of dollars. And I opted for the Platinum Energy System foot detox spa and the sauna instead, which was thousands of dollars. I would love a frequency-specific microcurrent machine, and I'd love the SCIO. I'd love all those machines that are thousands of dollars. And these patches are so affordable. It's not like buying giant machines and they get the results like these giant machines. So I do love that. That's so great. 

Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing. Is there anything else that you want to share? This is stuck in my mind because I'm sure some listeners went, what? But you mentioned ovarian cancer, and we didn't talk about whether it was gone, so I want to check in with you. 

[1:42:09.1] Trina Hammack: 15 years ago, I was diagnosed with aggressive stage 3 ovarian cancer. And I'm, like, wait, what? I mean, I am like you. I was a Big Sur mama, and I was eating clean. And I've got all of this technology. I'm a holistic practitioner now of 27 years, but fifteen years ago, I got this huge tumor diagnosis, and I did not understand what was happening. Anyway, so they took it out, and I refused chemo. I did a holistic therapy program with Hope for Cancer and am good friends with the medical director there, Dr. Jimenez. I've been fine ever since. From that experience, I learned German New Medicine which is the emotional part of any disease. And so that was my blessing, my silver lining in that. But honestly, it's a walk in the park compared to Lyme and mold. 

But I've been great. I never did chemo, and I didn't do radiation. Yeah, it's done. It was an emotional trigger. It was a repair phase of an emotional trauma. The one thing that I like to tell people is anytime you feel symptoms, whether it's a pain, inflammation, or sore throat, ask yourself what you just let go of. So what did you resolve to have your body go into this healing phase? Then you can use patches to help you smoothly transition through that healing phase and get better faster. 

When the body goes through repair, that's when you have symptoms. When it's in a conflict or has some conflict, you don't know that it's breaking down or building up some tissue. But when you let go of that emotional problem, it's like after being through a really stressful time, like, the finals. You're stressed out, and you get a cold or the flu afterward. It's because your body is in a phase, and that's when we use microbes to help us repair. But now you have tools to help you get through that, to keep your immune system stronger, so there's less body breakdown while you're stressed. 

But thank you for asking. I'm really good. I got to learn all about German New Medicine and help people on that level now too. 

[1:44:44.9] Ashley James: Yeah, I learned about Dr. Hamer in 2005 when I was studying neuro-linguistic programming, and what a rabbit hole to go down.

[1:44:53.1] Trina Hammack: It sure is. 

[1:44:53.7] Ashley James: It is such a beautiful rabbit hole. So I'm so glad you offer that, along with all the other tools you offer in your functional practice. So let's make sure we plug you as well, And, of course, the links to everything we've discussed today will be shown on today's podcast at And I can't wait to help you guys with this.

If you want to get and try these patches for yourself, and try these protocols, please contact me. Let me help you get on it and try it for yourself. And thank you for coming on the show. I would love to interview your friend there at Hope for Cancer. So I hope you can hook me up with him. I'd love that.

[1:45:37.1] Trina Hammack: I'll hook you up, absolutely. 

[1:45:38.6] Ashley James: And I want to interview more people like scientists associated with these patches, dig deeper into the science behind them, and go down this rabbit hole. 

[1:45:54.0] Trina Hammack: Let's get you hooked up with the founder.

[1:45:56.6] Ashley James: Yeah, let's do that. That would be a lot of fun. Awesome. Is there anything else you want to ensure the listener knows about today?

[1:46:06.9] Trina Hammack: I think we're good. I feel complete. How about you? 

[1:46:13.2] Ashley James: Yeah, nice and cool. Awesome. 

[1:46:16.2] Trina Hammack: Thank you so much.

[1:46:16.8] Ashley James: This has been fantastic. I'm looking forward to helping everyone interested in taking their health to the next level. Trina, you're welcome back on the show any time because you're such a fountain of knowledge, 27 years being this amazing practitioner, the healer, and your fellow country mom, that you are. We appreciate that. Absolutely. I think it's essential to help people heal from all their emotional, mental, physical, and spiritual issues, get to the root cause, and support their body's ability to heal. 

We help people remind themselves that they have the power. The word, empower, is not the right word to use because the root of the word empower means they don't have the power. You're lending them your power. But truly, they have the power within them. The body has the ability to heal itself. You're just reminding them. You're their navigator. 

And what I love about these patches is that they stimulate the body's healing mechanisms. And so we're stimulating the body to heal itself, but of course, accompany that with good nutrition and everything else you do. But it just accelerates it and takes it to this whole new level. So I'm already doing all these other healthy things, and it took it to the next level. 

And then my family member, who's not doing anything good or not doing anything healthy, like drinking alcohol, and eating whatever she wants, is a standard American kind of person; it helped her so much. I'm like, holy crow. So it helps both people and animals. As you said, you can patch horses. You've patched cats and dogs, and they have no placebo effect. Like, they think it's going to help them. So when you see that their limping goes away, their pain or anxiety behavior goes away after putting them on these animals. Even a patch has been designed specifically for horses because of how effective they are. And think about it; this is no drug. We're not putting something in the body. We're just stimulating the body's own healing mechanism, which is phenomenal. I love it. It should be in everyone's medicine cabinet. Everyone should try this and use it. This is a key that has been missing for so many people, so I'm really excited. I can't wait to talk to the listeners and help them get on it. And thank you so much for coming on the show. So if you ever have anything you want to come on the show and share about, you're welcome to come back. And maybe next time, I will actually let you talk.

[1:49:05.5] Trina Hammack: Hey, I loved hearing all your stories because it's only been a couple of months since you guys used these. I know where you started, and it was so great to get filled in with Duffy and Brave and your family member and stuff like that. So thank you for sharing all that. 

[1:49:24.1] Ashley James: Remember you told me I love new patchers! Because we started getting excited, and we're texting each other, you're like, I love new patchers. I thought to myself, and I can't wait to say that to someone else. I can't wait till I am helping other people, and they're like, I'm getting these results! And I can't wait to say to them, I love new patchers! It's just so cool to pass something on to someone that makes such a big difference and helps them. So just the one thing, like taking his headaches away. He was debilitated from constant pain for almost an entire year, from April to the end of the year. And like I said, it's every other day, at least once a week, then three or four times a week, and sometimes daily. And now he doesn't have that. How cool is it to have something you don't have to put anything in the body? So you stick something on his body, and it takes away the pain within minutes. 

If we could take away people's chronic pain with just that one thing. But it does so many more things than that.

[1:50:33.9] Trina Hammack: You have nothing to lose by trying something new. And if you don't like them, send them back. Honestly, my people don't because they get it. So you have nothing to lose. And why not try? That's how I look at it. 

[1:50:54.2] Ashley James: Love it. Thank you so much, Trina. And I look forward to having you back on the show. 

[1:50:58.8] Trina Hammack: Thanks, I can't wait.

[1:51:01.3] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today's interview with Trina Hammack. Wasn't that amazing? I just looked at the calendar and realized that my husband and I have been using this technology for 56 days. Since using it daily, I have been jumping out of bed way earlier than I used to. My sleep was already good. I've been on a healing journey for many years. I am incredibly clean, but I'm still healing my body. I still have a ways to go before I am a hundred percent satisfied. So I've got my own health goals that I'm working on

But I noticed that it improved my sleep, which was already good. We're just cool. It improved my energy, which was already good. Then it increased my strength. I can run upstairs. I have more strength that I feel my muscles are just stronger, and I'm lifting heavier things. It just feels easier. And my body composition has changed, which is interesting. I put clothing on, and I'm like, wow, that is fitting differently. The scale is telling me, but I'm also losing inches. My husband goes and hugs me and goes, woah; your body is shifting and changing. And it's fantastic. So my body composition is changing. They did studies and found that the specific protocol that I'm doing increases the body's ability to burn fat by 23%. 

There are so many studies that you can look into if you want. Just send me an email at, and I can share the studies with you. Or you can book that session with me. Go to, and at the top, it says, “Work with Ashley James” click on that, and the first session at the top, you can book our free 15-minute phone call, and then I can help you. I can help you get on the protocol that you want. If you're interested in trying this out, I'd love to help you. Also, the company, which I really appreciate, stands 100% behind its products, and they have a money-back guarantee. That's something I look into when I work with any holistic company. I look at many factors, including reviews and quality control, how long they've been around, the studies that they have published, and labs that are published about them. And then I look if they have a guarantee. Because if they 100% stand behind their product and will give you your money back, then that is amazing. And this company has such a good money-back guarantee. They really believe in their product, and I can see it for myself. So it's 56 days that I can really feel it. And I'm so excited that I was turned on to this by Trina. 

So if you want to get involved, I'd love to help you experience it yourself. Go to, chat with Ashley James book, and book a session with Ashley James. And then, boom. Let's have a discussion, and let me help you. And I've got access to Trina and many other holistic practitioners in our group that work with this technology, and I've been learning so much. I've been helping some people already with this and having some really fun results. So I'd love to help you as well.

I hope you have a fantastic rest of your day. Enjoy the rest of your day, whatever you're doing. Have a wonderful time, and I look forward to the next episode because I am super excited to publish it. And I've got a few more episodes until episode 500. That's going to be an amazing testimonial. So if you have a testimonial of health and healing that you'd like to share, I'd love to hear it. And I'd love to share it with the listeners because we're in the business of helping people to end their suffering. So, if you have a story of the success of healing, please share it with me. I'd love to share it on episode 500. That's coming up.

But pay attention to the next episode because there's another thing I'm excited to share with you. We're just kicking off the year with so many remarkable technologies. So stay tuned, and make sure you subscribe to get notified. I'd be publishing that episode soon. Excellent. Thank you so much for sharing my episodes with your friends and family. That's how we grow, and that's how we help as many people as possible. I want to help over a million people to learn true health and end their suffering, and to be able to finally gain the knowledge that they need to be able to be truly healthy in their bodies. So, thank you for spreading this information and helping your loved ones. And if you want to join our community, we have a free Facebook group. I'd love for you to be part of it as well. You can go to, which will take you to the Learn True Health Facebook group, and I will see you there.

Get Connected with Trina Hammack!








Jan 12, 2023

Your Three Action Steps:
1) Please share your testimonials by emailing
2) Get the foundations of health at
3) Structured Water! Check it out and use coupon code LTH at:


495: Unlock Mental and Emotional Freedom, Dr. Dain Heer

Our emotions are constantly on the move, rising and falling as we try to navigate through life. Our reactions to what's happening in our world may cause us to hold ourselves back from going after what we want (or are afraid of) which creates discord and imbalance in our lives. In this episode, Dr. Dain Heer speaks about tools and strategies to help us work through this process of emotional healing so that we can create more balance in life and feel happier!


  • Access Consciousness
  • Anti-consciousness
  • Tapping into awareness of the future
  • Finding your inner authentic voice
  • On the issue of suicide
  • Asking yourself, “who does it belong to?”
  • POC and POD


Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast and welcome to 2023. I know we’re in full swing now. Can’t believe this is the 12th day into 2023. I feel amazing, by the way. I’ve had a really amazing New Year’s. Very cathartic and I can’t wait to share more with you in the next few episodes as kind of my story will unfold. But I do have a few things I want to tell you that are really important before you get to today’s interview, which is phenomenal, by the way. I’m really excited about the techniques that he teaches in today’s interview. I think it’s beneficial for everyone to hear. 

First of all, episode 500 is coming up. It’s a pretty big deal. I’d love to hear your testimonials. For episode 500, I’m planning a testimonial episode. I’ve had some really great ones shared with me. And if you have a testimonial, and what I mean by that is, you’re in healing journey and if anything you’ve learned from the Learn True Health podcast or our Facebook group, anything you’ve learned from me or my guest has helped you along your journey, I’d love to hear your testimonial. You can record yourself. Just put your phone on you and record yourself and then shoot it to me. You can email to me, or you can find me on Facebook. If you go to, that’ll take you straight to our Facebook group. Feel free to join it and you can hit me up there and give me the testimonial. Or you can type it out if you like. Or transcribe it. Or just record an audio, however you want to get me. Your testimonial – I’d love to have it and it could be two minutes long or ten minutes long. Either way. 

The reason why I’m collecting these testimonials for this episode, for episode that’s coming up, episode 500, is when I was suffering and throughout my life there have been moments where I was at really low points. Hearing stories of success because I couldn’t see my way out of the darkness, of the pain, and seeing people who had been through what I had been through or in a similar experience and then come out the other side and they were thriving, seeing them succeed gave me hope to keep going. And I want to give that hope, I want to extend that hope to those who are suffering. I suffered for many years and the suffering didn’t have to happen, and that's the part that angers me but motivates me, right, because the suffering is optional. But when I was going through it, it wasn’t optional. It was what I was going through. And I found the tools and the resources to end my suffering, to heal my body emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, I was able to overcome those things. That's why I do this podcast, to share these tools with you to help you and your suffering, to help you get on the other side of your healing.

Now, healing is a journey whenever done, right? You don’t just go, “Oh, I’m done, I’m healed.” You're always growing and so am I. But I’d like you to get a point where life is like living is easy. Like it’s not uncomfortable to be in your own body, right? Living is fantastic. I want you to be on that side of the river with me, right? So I’m going to help you. We’re going to build that bridge to get on that side. Because right now, I’m on that side. I’m still growing, I’m still healing. I still have health goals. My life in my body is no longer suffering. 

So, with testimonials, you get to hear from real people, real listeners who have been able to cross that bridge and get to the other side. I want you to have the same thing. I’ve got some great testimonials about migraines, hormones, digestive issues. There's even one testimonial where a listener was able to save her mom’s life. Just big stuff. So, no matter how big or how small you think your testimonials, if you have one, please share it with me. I’d love to include it in that episode. Let’s help inspire those who want to be able to get on the other side but maybe just they can’t see their way out and let’s help motivate them and encourage them to get to that place. 

So anyways, who doesn’t love a great success story? Who does not love that? I cry, I weep, tears of joy and love and gratitude and praise. So happy to hear people’s transformation stories. So, please, share them,, I’d love to hear them.

The next thing I want to let you know. This is the beginning of the year and a lot of people are looking to create new health habits. I’ve got a fantastic free course for you that I designed with some naturopathic physicians. We filmed it. It’s called and I mean it, it is free. There's no strings attached. It’s just I filmed it with some of my favorite local naturopathic doctors and they give you the foundations of health that they do with all their patients that if you’re missing even one of these, you could be suffering needlessly. What’s crazy is that medical doctors will actually try to medicate these symptoms and the symptoms are like dehydration, for example, right? Just absolutely crazy that there's medications out there to treat symptoms that are completely resolved when we cover the foundations of true health. And that is what is offered in So go to, put in your information and you’ll get 7 emails from me, one every day with a video from a naturopathic physician teaching you and other foundation of health, easy steps that you can take and such a great time of year to do it to solidify your new health resolutions. Right? We all want to feel better. No matter where you are on your health journey, you need these foundations of health. So there they are., go to that, check it out.

Lastly, I have a story, I’m going to keep it short because I want you to get to this great interview. I’m going to be interviewing the creators and the scientists around this thing. But I was going to wait until I did the interview which I’m going to be doing next week. But I can’t wait. I have to tell you about it. If you’ve been a long-time listener, you’ve heard me say I’m the world’s most open-minded skeptic, right? I think that's how we need to be. We’re discovering new things, right? We have to use our critical thinking, right? Not just blindly accept anything but at the same time, be open-minded enough to at least take in new information especially if that information is so new. I think there's little bells and whistles that go off in our mind. It’s like oh, that sounds so new, it’s probably not true or it sounds too good to be true. Well, sometimes in holistic medicine, there are things that really work and they do sound too good to be true. But then there's a lot of I don’t want to say snake oil but there's a lot of not-so-great stuff. So, how do we navigate that? Well, we got to really get in touch and listen to our heart, listen to our intuition, take in all the information, look at the science, look at the results, and then try it on for ourselves. As long as there’s no negative side effects, try it on for ourselves as long as we feel like it’s safe to do, and then see what kind of results we get. So, that's what I love. I love experimenting with new herbs and new supplements and new machines and new habits. Like, I’m going to skip breakfast or I’m going to skip dinner or see what happens in my body, or I’m going to drink even more water, or I’m going to try a new exercise. Just you’re always experimenting trying new things. Get new health habits and try them on. 

So, I was introduced to this company and I’ve heard of structured water for a long time. I even have an interview on it which is amazing. I have this amazing interview. He’s a little hard to understand because I felt he had a very thick accent but if you strain really hard, you get some great information when you listen to him. He’s a Russian scientist who discovered with this group of scientists that discovered that structured water is what had the people in Chernobyl had them survive. So, there's a certain amount of people from Chernobyl who had radiation poisoning sent to this one particular hospital up in the mountains and he tells the story and they drink structured water. The other people were sent to other hospitals. Well, those people all suffered how we would predict with radiation poisoning. And yet, the ones that drink structured water did not, and they got better. They were like, woah, what’s going on? Like, this is the clear night and day difference.

They finally discovered that it was structured water that they were drinking, that it’s very specific places in the world where it comes up, it has to be under pressure, underground, and they’ve been trying to recreate it. If you’ve been into the health space, I’m sure you’ve heard of structured water before. Well, there's lots of machines, there's lots of expensive machines, there's all kinds of things out there that you get for structured water. I was introduced to this one company and, you know, I’m skeptical but I’m open-minded so I’m going to try it, so I tried it. And I really didn’t believe I was going to notice a difference. You simply use it in your glass of water. So, I fill up a big mason jar of 24 ounces, 30 ounces of water, and I use it. I swirl this thing in the water for a minute and then I drink it. I did not have a belief it would work because I was like, come on, really? I’m going to stir something in my water and it’s going to structure it. Well, sure enough. And you could stir water with a spoon or a knife or a chopstick. It’s not going to change the flavor of it. It’s not going to change how it feels in your mouth. Well, I used this device in the water for a minute and then I drank it. I was like, what just happened? Then of course I get another glass of water, pour it out of my filter to compare. Straight out of my filter I drank it, I’m like, okay, yeah, that's what water normally feels like in my mouth, normally tastes like. And then I drank the structured water again. I’m like, I cannot believe this! So, then I go grab my husband and our son, and I go okay, blind test. They don’t know which one is the structured water. I’m like, “Drink this, now drink this.” And they both were like, “What is this? This is amazing.” In one minute of using this device. And I’ve done this with every friend that’s come over. It’s been the funnest magic trick to do when friends come over, is the blind test. “Okay, drink this water, now drink this water, and tell me which one you like better.” The structured water tastes wetter. It feels different in the mouth. It tastes a bit sweeter and more natural just like more how water should be and it goes down your mouth like when you swallow it, it feels like everything is in alignment. And this has blown my mind.

So, I have a friend who also has the device and she says she’s loved it. So, I started sharing this with my friends and every single one of them has gone like, “I have to get this. This is crazy. This is so good.” Three days of using this, and this is the big thing for me because I don’t know if you know my stories, you might be a new listener. Listeners who have been listening for a while know that we’ve been through a hard time. Our family, we lost our daughter, and I’ve been doing a lot of healing work. What had been sort of in the background for me had just been like this low-grade sadness, just like really almost like a static noise sort of just always there, somewhere in my heart, just low in my heart, just always there, three days of drinking this water. One of my friends said, “How are you doing?” I did an internal check and I went, “It’s gone. It’s gone.” Wait, what? For the first time in two years, I was able to answer, “I’m actually doing really well, thanks for asking. Like I feel really good.” There was just this congruency in my body three days of drinking this water. I feel so good and my husband is like, refuses to drink any water other than using the structured water. You can use it in your cooking. It changes the flavor of your coffee, by the way. If you structure the water before you make coffee with it.

So, we’ve been doing it since right around Thanksgiving is when we got this device. I wanted to give it like a good enough trial before I introduce you guys to it because I like to experiment and see if something really resonates and really helps. Well, the studies around this structured water is that it reverses cellular age and people had their cellular age reversed up to 12 years younger in three months of drinking this water. I feel amazing. I know I’m doing a lot of health things, right? It’s hard because you’re doing so many different things, you don’t know which one is the one that's doing it. But I hadn’t really changed anything right around when I started using this device to structure my water. And I haven’t stopped using it. And I feel amazing. I’m a big water fanatic, I think we all should drink over 100 ounces of water a day that's purified water. But it makes me want to drink water more. It makes me enjoy drinking water. And there's a huge difference when I use it. Also, it affects well water too because I went to a friend’s house, we tested it on her well water and sure enough, I thought well water might already be just naturally structured coming from the ground. Sure enough, it changes well water as well. It feels wetter and it just goes down your throat easier and it changes the flavor of it like more enjoyable. Anyways, enough about that. Look forward to that interview. I’m going to be doing that interview next week. We’re going to get into the science of why. It also changes brain waves. It makes them healthier. They’ve been doing studies for about 12 years now on this particular device, but there's so much science around structured water. It’s really fascinating. So, check out this device that I love and of course, I asked them if they would give our listeners a discount. That's Use the coupon code LTH as in Learn True Health. Check it out for yourself. What I like about this is it’s actually way cheaper than all the machines out there probably because it’s manual and it’s not a machine that you're stirring your water with it. Check it out. So far, I really enjoyed communicating with this company and I’m really looking forward to having their scientist and their founders on the show and just digging into like why is it that the structured water, first of all, how is it that in one minute of stirring this device in your water is going to change it so much and how is it that it’s affecting people reversing their cellular age, affecting their brainwaves. How is it that it affected my emotional body, my energetic and emotional body, and that residual sadness that wasn’t going away went away. How is that? 

So, very excited to bring you that information. Go to Use coupon code LTH, try it for yourself. It is the most affordable structured water device I have found which is great. Yeah, I want to know your feedback. Come to the Learn True Health Facebook group and let me know what you think about this device. Now, remember, testimonials, I want them. Please give them to me because episode 500 is coming up. Then,, go get the foundations of health. I want you doing those things for your benefit and share it with your friends and family. Enjoy today’s interview. It’s a fantastic episode. I really, really loved it. It resonated with me and I hope it helps you as well. Have yourselves a fantastic rest of your day and enjoy today’s interview.

[00:16:17] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James, this is episode 495.

I am so excited for today’s guest. We have on the show with us Dr. Dain Heer. Boy, this is going to be one of those episodes where you’re just going to sit back and you're going to feel like a transformed person by the end of it. I’m excited for 2023. The last few years, I just want to, I don’t know, I kind of want to put it in that little box in my mind like was that the dream like Dorothy waking up and being like, it was a dream but you were there and you were there. So, let’s just all wake up and 2023 will be like this beautiful technicolor life. Let’s take everything that we want to transform and work on that but in a really positive way see ourselves in the future having achieved those transformed goals. And we have with us an amazing expert to help us get there. Welcome to the show!

[00:17:20] Dr. Dain Heer: Ashley, thanks for having me.

[00:17:22] Ashley James: Absolutely. Now I’d love to hear just a little bit about what had you become the expert you are now. I know that sort of started out as a chiropractor which I absolutely love chiropractic care. But so many chiropractors I have interviewed have gone on to do so much more and it’s really cool that you can take that as a foundation and then go and do like emotional work and healing and energy work. There's so many modalities that can come about from that foundation.

[00:17:57] Dr. Dain Heer: Yeah, it’s wonderful. Chiropractic is sort of a gateway drug for possibilities. It’s like, “Hey, you want to learn chiropractic? Hey, how about some other stuff now?” For me, I was a chiropractor, I was living in Santa Barbara, starting my second practice 22 years ago. I felt like I didn’t even do chiropractic very well. I had studied so many different techniques, you know, emotional, untwisting the tension from the dura, I mean, and about 30 others. I was at a point in my life where I was done because I was going to every weekend workshop I could. I was reading every book I could on personal development, self-help, money, relationships, all the stuff. And what would happen for me is I’d go to a weekend workshop and I’d feel like I finally had the answers by the end of the workshop and I was finally going to be able to create the life I wanted and then by Wednesday of the following week, it would all go away and the universe would cave in on my head again. It was literally a Wednesday after one of these workshops 22 years ago where the universe caved in on my head when I thought I had finally found the answers I was looking for and I said, “I’m done. Universe, you have six months. Either my life changes or I’m out of here.” I literally set a date to end my life. I knew how I was going to do it. It wasn’t around anybody’s birthday. It wasn’t around a holiday. I didn’t want people to mourn for me. I just wanted to get out of my suffering. A week later, I came across an ad for something called Access Consciousness that I had never heard about before. It said Access, all of life comes to me with ease and joy and glory. I got furious, I threw the paper away. Because my life was pain and suffering and gory at the time. I happened to see this little add in the paper the following week and I learned along before if there’s something you hate or something you love, there's something in it for you. So, I called and I was thinking nothing was going to happen. Called and made an appointment and had this girl come to my office for a session. I went into this session angry, depressed, suicidal, looking forward to leaving the planet and I came out with a sense of gratitude for being alive that I will never forget. 

In contrast, everything else that I had done up until that point, it didn’t go away. I got a tool to use each week because I started doing these sessions once a week and what would happen is, when the universe wanted to cave back in on my head, I would use the tool and it would expand back out and I would have that space again. Then, I would get the session and then my space would expand more. And I started walking around with something that very few people seemed to have or allowed themselves which was actually a sense of space no matter what happened. So, I could go through the trials and travails of life and observe it rather than be in the middle of it. That was 22 years ago. Few months after that session, I met the founder of Access, a man named Gary Douglas and he came for a chiropractic session in my office and we became fast friends and started creating this body of work that changes every day and grows every day based on how much more quickly can we help you create change. Because Access is about accessing, the knowing that each of us has within us. When you access that, you start to create the life of your dreams that you always knew was possible. There's stills ups and there's still downs but the downs are far less and the ups are far greater and that starts to become the new trajectory for your life.

[00:21:54] Ashley James: So, you want to unpack a bit about what this is? Is it energy work? Is it meditation? Is it talk therapy? What is it?

[00:22:03] Dr. Dain Heer: Yes. It is so many things. I mean, we have probably 8000 tools at this point that are different ways of handling things in the trenches of life. But its basis is that the only time we create a difficulty in our lives is when we function from less than the consciousness that we are. So, what it’s about is actually undoing the unconscious and anti-conscious points of view that we have which is all the places where we stick ourselves. When you do that, the being that you are actually is conscious.

In certain spiritual circles, they talk about having a higher self. Well, that never sat well with me because inherent in that point of view is you must be the lower self. What this is about is accessing your being, the part of you that actually knows. It’s like if you ever had a choice come up and you knew not to do it, and you did it anyway. And it turned out just as poorly as you know it would, well, that's an acknowledgement that we knew ahead of time, we can perceive these things. So, part of what Access does is there's a part of that’s verbal processing, there's a part of it that’s hands-on which is the session that I had which is this thing called The Bars, which is a light touch technique that’s done on the head and we’ve done scientifically valid studies and found that it decreases anxiety, stress, and depression at an average of 87% with one session. So, there are also body processes to change things in your body by getting your body more conscious. So, it’s got a lot of aspects to it. Describing Access is kind of like hey, describe the universe in three sentences. It’s like, it’s really big.

[00:24:08] Ashley James: This sounds a lot like neurolinguistic programming or timeline therapy. Or there's a lot of other modalities that I know of. Does it pull from other modalities or is it 100 percent its own unique thing?

[00:24:21] Dr. Dain Heer: Nope. It’s 100 percent its own unique thing.

[00:24:26] Ashley James: You mentioned the term “anti-conscious”. I understand consciousness, I understand the unconscious mind or the subconscious mind. But what is anti-consciousness?

[00:24:36] Dr. Dain Heer: Well, let’s actually unpack the unconscious or subconscious. Because what we call our subconscious mind can actually oftentimes be our consciousness in action. See, we have done ourselves a dynamic disservice by equating cognitive and conscious. They are not the same. Cognitive is mental. Conscious is your connection with everything and the awareness you would have as an infinite being. So, if we look from that perspective, I’ll give people a moment to digest that sentence. Kind of one big sentence there which is that we as beings are conscious. In other words, we have infinite knowing, we have infinite perceiving, we have infinite receiving and infinite being. Those are the four aspects of an infinite being, but those are also what we would have as the consciousness we are.

So, unconsciousness is actually where you allow yourself or enforce upon yourself to be unaware of something. Anti-consciousness is where you actively choose against the consciousness that you are. This is what I see with a lot of people is for example, in that case, of you know, everybody out there, think of one thing that you knew not to do and you did it anyway. Then think of how it turned out just as badly as you knew it would. Even though you went through the check box, you listed out your pros and cons, or it looks so good it must work out well. Well, that's a combination of unconsciousness and anti-consciousness. The unconsciousness is I’m going to make myself unaware of the future this will create because each of us has an awareness of future. The anti-consciousness is “Oh, I just got the awareness of the future and I’m going against it now.” That’s what gets created when you function from less than the consciousness of you which occurs in either of those forms.

[00:26:49] Ashley James: I feel like a lot of people might be questioning you on this awareness of the future, like, “I’m not psychic, I can’t predict what other people are going to say or do or how they're going to respond.” Then, how do we tap into our awareness of the future and check in with ourselves and make sure that we’re not actively choosing against the consciousness that we are?

[00:27:17] Dr. Dain Heer: Well, that definitely takes practice because look at it, we’ve all grown up being taught that there are right and wrong choices and the way to know how to choose what’s right is to write down if you're going to do anything, you write down the list of pros and cons, and if the pros outweigh the cons, then you do it. But I’ve seen a lot of people who got married to people who the pros appear to outweigh the cons who suffered dynamically for years. So, what else is there? Well, when you say a lot of people would say “I’m not psychic,” I know and yes, you are. I totally get it. I was functioning from the same place, so I totally understand. I totally understand if I say hey, you have this awareness of future. And people would resist it like I did. You know when I first heard that too, I was like, “You are full of crap!” So if you think I’m full of crap, I totally understand.

In fact, probably the most common thing I hear is “I thought you were full of crap when you said this but I found out you’re not.” I’m like, yup, I get it. I understand. It takes practice. But here’s the thing, is let’s take psychic out of the card reading, future predicting type of thing and let’s acknowledge that it’s awareness of the energetics that occur but also that will occur. So, you don’t necessarily know what somebody else is going to do or what they're going to choose. You could probably predict it with some reliable probability but that's not actually the point. The point is actually getting the sense of I choose this, what space or lack of space will it create for me? A great question to start practicing that is if I choose this, what will my life be like in five years? Not look like because you can’t see it. The future is wisps and whispers of energy. I made a concerted choice to even bring up this topic because I do realize how out there it can seem for some people. But unless we start to realize that we are aware of the energetics, the fundamental sort of sense of lightness or heaviness of what our choices create, we’re going to keep ourselves in the dark thinking that we have no clue what to choose. That's one of the biggest things sticking most people right now. I say right now, it’s probably been forever, is the idea that they don’t know what to choose because they don’t know what the outcome will be, so then they go to their minds to try to figure it out and they go through the checklist and then it still doesn’t work out well.

And yet, if you recognize that even while you're doing the checklist, even while you're exploring whatever the subject is, you will have a sense of whether it’s light or not. See, what’s true for you always makes you lighter. A lie for you will always make you heavier. The more you choose the things that are actually true for you, whether they are for anybody else or not, the lighter your life gets over time.

So, like if for example, well, right around 22 years ago now, I got engaged. Why did I get engaged? Because I had a desire to get married at the time? No, I didn’t but I knew that my girlfriend at the time desired it and in a sense required it because that was the next step we were supposed to take and she needed that for me to prove that I loved her. Because I’m a bit of a romantic, okay, I’m a total freaking romantic, don’t tell anybody, that's just between us, okay, even while I was planning this wonderful way of asking her to marry me, I felt like the walls were closing in. I knew not to do it. I did it anyway. Well, that was like opening Pandora’s box. There was so much heaviness associated with it. But I was going to be the right man who was doing the right thing.

So, my previous conclusion about what I needed to be for someone created the place where I couldn’t look at the effect or wouldn’t look at the effect that it would create even though energetically it was right in my face. We ended up breaking up about three months after because I could no longer go down that path because it just got heavier and heavier and heavier and heavier. The thing is, I knew before I chose it. Which is why I’m bringing this up to people and I also realized, you know, to a certain extent, people, if they're listening to a podcast or they’re usually thinking they're going to get some slightly different version of what they already know. And we’re greater than that. We actually have awarenesses. It’s easy to reject something because it doesn’t match what you thought it was but that's the recipe for keeping the same life that you’ve always had. This conversation is about let’s embrace that we might have more awareness than we think and let’s use it on our behalf. You don’t have to throw out anything. Anything that you’ve learned, anything that you know, because what’s true makes you lighter, a lie makes you heavier. If I say something and it makes you lighter, take it. If I say something and it makes you heavier, feel free to leave it. It’s your choice, it’s your life. But we are greater than we have ever acknowledged or given ourselves credit for. And us trying to pretend that we’re normal, trying to pretend we don’t have the level of awareness we have is killing is, literally. 

[00:33:16] Ashley James: I’m going to play the devil’s advocate for just a moment because I think it will help us better understand. What if 20 years ago, those feelings that you had were not your tapping into understanding your future, but were coming from a place of your unconscious limiting decisions or negative emotions or negative beliefs about yourself like marriage is hard, I’m not loved, I’m going to screw this up, or I’m going to be trapped or whatever. People come up with these limiting decisions that they end up living by that they’ve created through their childhood.

[00:33:56] Dr. Dain Heer: Totally.

[00:33:58] Ashley James: And people will often live as if these unconscious negative beliefs are the truth, right?

[00:34:05] Dr. Dain Heer: Totally. That's what Access changes. That is exactly what Access changes. I’m really grateful you're bringing it up because this is a thing that so many people don’t realize that they're just living the negative beliefs that they grew up with and basically bought as theirs. That they just basically climbed into the box of somebody else’s limited reality and they're trying to decorate it better. So, it’s like absolutely, I’m 100 percent with you.

[00:34:40] Ashley James: Because when people, they're coming from a negative belief and then they try something, they go to do something but they're still believing they can’t or it’s going to screw up, I’m going to screw up, I’m not good enough, I’m not loved, whatever the thing is, and then when it does mess up, they're like, “See, I knew it. I knew I can’t do it,” and they're finding the evidence that they can’t do it. They’re finding they’re living through evidence and proving evidence that they can’t do it. People will live from their unconscious beliefs as if that's reality. Then, they’ll go on proving. So let’s say an unconscious belief is I’m not loved or if it’s like a marriage thing like they saw their parents struggle and divorce and maybe they've seen broken marriages, they grew up in a broken home, they believe that they can’t do it, I can’t do it. Whatever it is about relationships, they can’t do it, or I’m bad at relationships, no one loves me, whatever their belief is, it’s unconscious. They're not consciously aware of it, but what they're aware of is they’re constantly finding evidence to prove their belief system is true and they're negating, the unconscious mind is negating. Distorting, generalizing, negating the proof that they are loved or the proof that anything that goes against their belief system.

So, if they go and they go “Well, I couldn’t possibly do this marriage thing. I’m feeling trapped, I’m feeling like the walls are closing in,” and they call it off and they're like, “See, I knew I couldn’t do it.” But it wasn’t them predicting the future; it was them fulfilling their limiting beliefs or their negative beliefs that they’ve created, that they're living by, and then they're constantly finding evidence to support that their negative beliefs are reality when in fact they're not. 

[00:36:40] Dr. Dain Heer: Like I was saying, those negative beliefs, those limiting beliefs are actually what Access changes. The thing about looking at the future is you're not predicting the future, you are having an awareness of what that choice will create. In other words, the energetics of what that choice will create. So, with this, for me, what I did was I started using these Access Consciousness tools because the thing is, when something is heavy, we know it. We just know it for whatever reason. And what Access gives you is a way of changing that. So, because what we tend to do is we tend to lump all kinds of things together. It’s like we’ve got the love we didn’t get from mom and the love we didn’t get from dad and like the insecurities you’ve grown up with and the future we’re looking at that we don’t know that we can do and we put it all together in one thing, it keeps us from getting clarity on what’s actually going on. 

So, I totally agree with you about our past limiting points of view that we’ve adopted and most of those, we have adopted and bought from other people who had a similar point of view, so we don’t really even know what our point of view is most of the time unless you're willing to explore it. What happened for me was that’s exactly where I was functioning and it was so heavy, I went, “I need to do something.” So, I started asking some questions like what is true for me here that I haven’t acknowledged. What will my life be like in 5 years if I go through with this? What choices do I have available that I haven’t acknowledged? And what is it I’m trying to create here and for whom. 

Then we also have another thing in Access which is a way of, well, basically changing anything you want to change. It’s called a clearing statement. It’s based on the idea that the “conscious“ part of us, I hate to put it in those terms because I would like all of us to be conscious. But if we were totally conscious, we wouldn’t create difficulties. But we have this way of changing your limiting points of view and also unlocking the fix points of view that keep you from getting in touch with what’s true for you. I don’t normally go into it on an interview like this because yeah, it’s a lot of weird words and I’ve got a 20-minute video explaining it online, so I usually just point people there so they can have access to it if they're interested. But for me, it’s something that I use every single day because let’s face it, stuff comes up in the world we live in, you know.

[00:39:32] Ashley James: Well, I definitely want the link to the 20-minute video and I’ll put it in the show notes of today’s podcast at and any podcast directory wherever people are listening from, they can just look in the description and I’ll make sure that that link is there, so 20-minute video, I’ll make a little note of that. How can someone tell the difference between the unconscious sort of limiting points of view or the limiting decisions, negative beliefs that they’ve been living by or they created themselves or they adopted from their surroundings either from marketing, from their friend’s family. They’ve been living as though that's the truth and letting that sort of be their guide stone. How can they tell the difference between that which when they make decisions based on that guide stone, they’re coming from definitely a place of scarcity and fear and cutting themselves off, right? How can they tell the difference though between that and that connecting with the part of themselves, connecting with whatever you want to describe it, people would say god, universal energy, their higher self as you’ve said some people call it that, but connecting with that within you, your intuition that knows what’s going to create more space, lightness, a better future for yourself, how can you tell the difference between those two voices?

[00:40:57] Dr. Dain Heer: Once again, it takes some practice. The thing is, we live in a world where it’s like okay, give me the one answer that will solve my life and it doesn’t work that way. You’ve got to go on a journey where we’re willing to actually uncover and explore but the beginning of that is, ask this one simple question. What will my life be like in 5 years if I choose this and get a sense of whether it’s lighter or whether it’s heavier, whether you have a sense of more ability to breathe like more relaxation, more space, and/or if it seems contracted. Or of contraction of any form, and that's also different for all of us. But the thing is, it’s like when we’re choosing something that is what we’ve been conditioned to choose what other people require, it’s an energy we can learn to recognize. I mean, let’s face it, for most people, before this conversation, they didn’t really have it sort of pointed out in black and white. Like here’s one of the things that may be going on. So, it’s got to be a bit of an exploration of okay, and maybe one thing that would help is write down a couple of things that you’ve chosen in your life that just turned out way better than you could imagine. Get the moment where you chose that and get the sense of that. When I say the sense of that, it’s like hey, how was that? Like, what were you being in that moment? Be with that for a minute because that, for you, it’s unique to each of us, you know. There may be commonalities or similarities but it’s unique to each of us. But what were you being in that moment? Like, just get the sense of your space, your headspace, how your body felt. Be with that for a moment and then look at a couple of things that you’ve chosen that you knew you did it because you were supposed to. And look at the space you are choosing now or the lack of space.

A lot of times people will say “Yeah, I feel like I’m just all in my head” or “I feel like there's a band around my head when I think about that.” And yeah, it’s because we’re trying to use our computer to figure it out rather than letting our being access what it knows. We all have so many obligations and expectations from others that we’re spending our lives trying to fulfill, thinking that somehow, if I can just fulfill all of their expectations, then I’ll get the love that I want, that they won’t judge me anymore, that I’ll be a good person and not a bad person. All of these things are ways of opening the door to judging ourselves.

And in Access, we have a definition of consciousness which is where everything and everyone exists, and no one and nothing is judged. I guess a definition, a description, however you want to put it, and from that, you realize that if you’re judging you, you're not doing a kindness to you but that’s what we’ve grown up with in our entire world so it creates a place that when we go to choose something especially something we consider a large choice, we put our judgement system on overdrive most of the time, and you’ll notice if you look back at something that you choose that seemed to have space and relaxation to it that turned out wonderfully, usually it’s because it wasn’t a significant thing for you. So, when we have things we consider significant or big choices, we go the exact opposite of the way that will work. We go into more judgment, more trying to figure it out, more trying to understand it, rather than basically expanding out, getting some space for us as beings to approach the situation. 

[00:45:13] Ashley James: I’m trying to relate to what you’re saying but I’ve done so much personal growth work in my life and like thinking about all these major issues, I’m going, well, what I do is I usually, whatever the outcome is, I always try to learn from it. So, whether I’m like, okay, well, it didn’t turn out the way I wanted, but look at all the things we learned and look at all this growth and like now I know more of how to navigate this and so we’re always asking ourselves what’s good about this. My husband and I are always kind of going through what’s good about this. But the one thing that when you said take one thing that turned out really well and what was the moment, it was when I decided to say yes to my husband to marry him. I totally get back in that space and get right in my body in that moment. There’s so much possibilities, infinite possibility. There’s maybe one percent fear like what is the future going to bring? I don’t know. But there was so much love, so much possibility like oh, this is beautiful. It’s a beautiful space. It’s expanding, it’s light, it’s energetic. It’s exciting, thrilling. And that's like we were just talking today because a friend from 10+ years ago, coworker I had many years ago reached out and he just this morning shared with me that he is struggling in his relationship and doesn’t know what to do. I look at my husband and I’m like, you know, him and I always think about and talk about the things that we don’t like, the things we want to improve, the things we’re kind of frustrated with in our life, the messes in our life. But I said, you know what, I’ve been taking for granted the things that are amazing because like our relationship is amazing. I feel like I have the most solid relationship in the world and so I take it for granted. There's people who really want this and I have it. I started to think about all the things that wow, I’ve taken for granted so many things that are really working in my life because I’ve always just been fixated on the few that are not working. And that you're right when you think about the things that are working and the choices you’ve made that make it work, it’s a totally different feeling in your body. It’s a different feeling in your body. 

So, now it has shift. My choices and beliefs around the things that aren’t working so that I can have that on the same frequencies with the things that are working. Right?

[00:47:23] Dr. Dain Heer: Yeah, exactly that. I think that's the thing that like you said, one of the questions we have in Access, well, there's a few. One is what’s right about this, I’m not getting. Because also, it’s like every choice I make, my point of view is all is well that ends in more consciousness. Which is more awareness. Like you said, I made these choices, they didn’t work out well, but I look at everything I learned. And I have a similar point of view and also, it’s like how great would it be to be that space like when you said yes, to be that space with all of our choices. This is what I see people being able to step into, is they're no longer in conflict with themselves when they start to have a sense of who they actually are. And unfortunately, we live in a world where people think they are the image especially now, especially since the onslaught of social media, and I’m sure it was there before that in other ways, but people unfortunately are trying to uphold this image of who they are that’s primarily for other people. But they have to buy into it to a certain degree to try to see it as a reality and it’s really destructive because we’re far greater than that. And what would it be like if we could have a lot more space and a lot of our choices, number one, occur from that space that you're talking about when you said yes to your husband. But number two, also have the result. Because when you're doing it from that space and you choose, that's usually the result. It turns out awesome, it turns out greater than you can ever imagine. And you’re correct, we have to get in touch with how does this feel in my body, like how am I sensing this? Like, what is that?

And okay, so if you’ve had a time like that, then go there and then bring it here to the degree that you can to apply it to this situation and then see what you see that you didn’t see otherwise. 

[00:49:31] Ashley James: So now that we’ve established that you can feel in your body, and some people are more aware, more kinesthetic, they're more in tune with their feeling, and some people, they're going to have to work on this, right. But when you maybe just sit quietly for a few minutes and be with yourself, be with your breath, and think about, for example, like reflect on how you felt and the space in you, inside you, when you're making choices that turn out really well, that you felt totally in alignment with, there's no conflict, there was just feeling of congruency in your body, and then versus the times when you felt a lot of conflict, your incongruency, and yet you did it anyway, sort of like, I don’t know, I’m walking out and it’s a sunny day and my intuition says bring the umbrella, and I’m like, I override that soft voice in my head that says “bring the umbrella”. And I’m like, I don’t need to bring the umbrella, it’s sunny outside, right? Or I’m about to go to the car and the voice will say to bring a pair of batteries. I’m like, “I don’t need batteries. This doesn’t make sense.” And then later on in the day, I needed the batteries or I needed the umbrella. I’m like, “Oh, I was supposed to listen to that voice.” I don’t know. Why do I override it? 

But when you follow that voice versus when you don’t follow that voice or you make decisions when there is incongruency or like you said, almost like that feeling of less space closing in on you maybe, or darkness, or whatever it is, we start to establish that feeling. When we’ve established that feeling then, let’s say we have a choice we need to make, maybe start with some smaller ones about major life choices, like what to make for dinner, when we are sitting with ourselves and we’re feeling the incongruency, what’s an exercise we can do to find that authentic direction, the authentic voice inside us that’s like hey, this is the direction we’re meant to go and that this is authentically me?

[00:51:27] Dr. Dain Heer: Well, first is, you want to ask who does this belong to? When you're having that mental staccato, you know, the snare drum in your head or the out-of-tune band as your monkey mind goes into high rev, you want to ask who does this belong to. One of the things we’ve found in Access is that 98 percent of our thoughts, our feelings, our emotion, our stress, our anxiety, our depression, our suicidal thoughts, our anger and our fear, and our doubt, and all kinds of other things, are actually things we pick up from other people. And if we extend that a little bit further, what you realize is a lot of us for doing any sort of healing or personal development work, a lot of us have the awareness that I’m acting just like my mom, I’m being a slightly better version of my mom or my dad or both. And we realize that we seem to have the same limitations with money, we seem to have a similar thing in relationship.

So, we can ask. There's a tool. We even have a free app. It’s called Who Does This Belong To? So if you're in the middle of like you can ask it to any thought, feeling, and emotion, or any one of like the weird energies and when your mind starts going, if you go, who does this belong to? If it lightens up at all, it’s not yours. Just return to sender with consciousness attached. And one of the biggest things that we can do for ourselves is look back over our lives, and one of the questions I ask people is, what percentage of who, what, where, when, why and how you are, or that you think you are, did you buy from your mom and your dad before the age of two? People get up into the hundreds of thousands of percent and which is interesting because you would think there should only be able to be a hundred percent, I guess we just buy it over and over and over, it’s kind of like if you think about your family life and all the energies that were around, we were aware of all of those, but nobody ever pointed it out as us being aware of something. It was always like, “oh, when I’m around mom, I feel this way.” “When I’m around dad, I feel this way.” “When I’m around both of them, I feel this way.” 

Well, those were all energetics. It’s kind of like we grew up swimming in carrot soup and if you swim in carrot soup for 15, 25, 35, 45, 55 years, somebody pulls you out, you look like a carrot, you smell like a carrot, you taste like a carrot, but you're still not a carrot. But we’ve been swimming in the carrot soup of all of these thoughts, feelings, and emotions and points of view thinking that they belong to us. This is a way of undoing that. It’s one of the things I use to heal myself of depression 22 years ago. Any time any of that would come up, I’d go, who does this belong to? And it would lighten up a little bit and I’d go, okay, not mine. I just tune my radio to that frequency. So, I’d be like, okay, return to sender with consciousness attached. 

Well, you can do that also with things that you bought a long time ago. And let’s say you're having one of those moments where things are not light, you're trying to look at a situation and it’s not, just go, “Who does that belong to?” Whenever I bought this as mine when it wasn’t, POC and POD, which is the short form for the clearing statement which I mentioned earlier, just POC and POD all that. POC and POD. POC and POD. POC and POD. POC and POD. And return to sender. What happens is, probably about 85, maybe 90 percent of the time, you get some lightness, you get a little bit more space which allows you then to grab on to the thread of your reality so you can start to get to the lightness that you get to when you're functioning from what’s true for you.

[00:55:35] Ashley James: You brought up suicide and I think it’s really important to talk on this a little bit because it’s the second leading cause of death for ages 10 to 14 and 15 to 34. This is in the 2020 statistics. It’s a major issue that we’re seeing. Maybe social media is playing a role in increasing this, but you mentioned that if 98 percent of our thoughts and even like suicidal thoughts are not our own, they're coming from other influences, we need to sit down and sort of who’s me and who’s not me. Because so many children are being fed this negativity. Whatever they're being fed, it’s causing them to want to take their own lives. What can you say or what techniques do you teach or at least begin to unfold for us that can help people or we need to recognize that “wow, I’ve been thinking about some pretty dark things, I’ve been going to some dark places,” “wow this is not me, this is not who I am, this is coming from outside”?

[00:56:49] Dr. Dain Heer: Well, I’m glad you brought it up because it is such a big issue and becoming greater every day. If you look at the statistics after COVID, the world suicide rates rising like skyrocketing. So here’s the first thing we have to recognize about a lot of those that are getting to that place or think they might be. These tend to be the sensitive individuals in our world. It’s part of the reason I brought up who does this belong to out of the thousands of tools we have in Access and ways of changing things. Because somebody who’s sensitive, and here’s the other part I need to address also, is so often it’s the sensitive people of the world that are the ones that feel like it’s their responsibility to take the pain and suffering of the world on their shoulders because they perceive it so dynamically and more than people who don’t have that level of sensitivity.

So, a sensitive person, if we look at this idea, and a lot of people when I say 98 percent of your thoughts, feelings and emotions aren’t yours, people are like “yeah, you're crazy,” I’m like, “I know, I thought so too.” So I started using it on myself and I started finding it works with almost every single person that I do it with. We have over a million people that have gone through Access Consciousness classes at this point. And so many of them have gotten freedom from this. But if we can recognize that those people who get to that place are sensitive, what does that mean? Well, their awareness of well, everything around them, energetically, is off the charts.

So, for a “normal” person although I hate that word, for a normal person, their volume knob for picking up other people’s thoughts, feelings, and emotions and their depression and all of that, their volume knob might be at a 1. For some of these highly sensitive people, it’s up at 1000. So, what happens is, very few people recognize this. See, I see this sensitivity as a gift now because I’m one of those people. But also, it used to seem like a curse because I was always the one that was like, can’t you tell that these people are angry? And they're like, “What are you talking about?” 

So, they’ve been so invalidated and there hasn’t been anybody to come along and say “You know what, you’re sensitive,” or ask them. Actually, I would never tell somebody anything about them. I always ask them a question. But if somebody would come along and acknowledge that they have this level of dynamic awareness and what are you aware of, and how much of this is your awareness, how much of this is something you're perceiving, and how much of it is something that’s actually being generated from within you. I will ask people who are going through this. And I can’t tell you the tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of times where I’ve assisted people going through what seemed like depression or anxiety or suicidal thoughts or “I just want to die.” It’s always got a component of them having this level of awareness. One of the things I ask them is, what’s the difference between I’m sad and I’m perceiving sadness? Of course, perceiving it is “it’s there, I’m here”. I am sad is now “it’s here and I am in.” This is one of the crucial distinctions that we haven’t been taught to make that really, our entire perspective could change if we recognize that there's a level of sensitivity that a lot of people have and nobody has ever acknowledged them for it. They just want to take them and get rid of it and put the people on drugs, etc. And there are a number of people that I’ve worked with where they were experiencing something like suicidal thoughts, depression, whatever. They were convinced of the utter wrongness of them because that's the other thing that goes along with this. They’re very sensitive to that energy, that vibration of wrongness that people walk around with and they always want to try to take it away. They don’t want other people to feel wrong.

So, when I say, okay, are you having this or are you perceiving this? They go, “What?” I’m like, okay. I run through the thing with them about sadness. And they go, “Oh.” And I say, so, are you having this or are you perceiving this? They go, “Oh my gosh. I’m perceiving so much of it. It feels like me.” I’m like, “I know.”

Then our next step then is to create the distance between I guess I’ll call it distance, to create the awareness in their world of exactly like you said, what is theirs and what is not theirs. It’s why we develop this idea of if you ask who does this belong to for three days to every thought, every feeling, every emotion, every yuck, every stuck, every weird twisted energy, every mind going crazy, and if it lightens up at all, it’s not yours, return to sender with consciousness attached. At the end of three days, you walk around like you're in a walking-talking meditation. Literally, no thoughts in your head. Like I can walk through any city in the world and I’m glad I have this because I travel a lot facilitating classes and have no thoughts in my head. You know, it’s just in Rome, just enjoying Rome, there was none of the monkey mind because if you’ll do that for three days, you start to break the machine that makes you believe that everything you perceive and are aware of actually belongs to you. 

[01:02:52] Ashley James: And is generated from you. Right? Like, oh, the sadness is me. That makes so much sense. So my background being in neurolinguistic programming and in Time Line Therapy and hypnosis, as you're talking, I’m reminded of Dr. Milton Erickson who he’s sort of the creator of the modern-day, very ultra light state of hypnotherapy where you would just be in conversation with him. And through a conversation, he could put you in a light state of trance and he can slow your heart rate down, slow your breathing down. He would watch your pulse. He was very talented at observation because he had polio twice. He had to learn how to walk three times in his life. He would sit there, as he was crippled and recovering, he watched his younger sibling learn to walk for his first time and he became hyper aware of certain things. Like he could look at you and could tell you what your pulse is because he could count the pulse on your ankle or your neck.

So we’d watch people and as he used hypnotic language patterns just in conversation, like you said, the “normal” people, would be talking to him not really feeling any kind of a different conversation. Okay, this guy talks a little slow. But within minutes, your heart rate would be lower and you would walk out of a session with him much more positive, focused on positive things. He had one man come to him who said “I have to stop drinking. I’m ruining my life.” And this is back in I think in the ‘70s. It was long time ago and he said to the guy, this is in Arizona or in New Mexico, somewhere in the desert, “I want you to go and look at a cactus and tell me how it can survive without drinking water.” He just gave him a thought. Just something to think about, something to look at, and years later, a woman came in and said, “I have to meet you.” And he’s like, “Okay, I have an appointment too but I guess I can meet you now.” She’s like, “No, no, no, I just have to meet the man who told my dad who was beating my mom and destroying our lives and a complete drunk, who couldn’t keep a job. He was told to go look at a cactus. He quit drinking, sobered up, moved us to California, got a job and became an amazing dad and husband. I just had to meet the guy that told my dad to stare at a cactus and his whole life changed.” 

But it’s like a perfect example of this input coming Dr. Milton Erickson, right? It’s an input. It’s outside of us. It’s a conversation. It’s thoughts. But it’s not our own. It didn’t generate from us. And he’s inputting stuff and your critical faculty is allowing it and you’re allowing these thoughts in. Then, it makes positive changes. Well, the same can be for negative. Right? We’re allowing in hypnotic language patterns. Anytime you turn on the radio, watch the TV, listen to other people, go through a grocery store and over here, other people talking, these are all hypnotic suggestions you're allowing in. If you can’t tell the difference between the external world and your internal world. Then you perceive all that external stuff as you. And that would make anyone incredibly depressed and sick especially if they have more empathy, they're more empathetic, they're leaning, like you said, they're sensitive. You use the word “sensitive”, I use the word “empathetic.” But people who are more perceptive, those people are a sponge for everything around them and the if they don’t have the tools like you teach these tools, they’re thinking it’s all self-generated, it’s all them, and they cannot tell the difference. There’s no barrier, there's no boundary between who they are and the outside world. That would be horrible. You think about those who have autism, like over stimulus, it’s just agony inside them. There is no separation between this outside stimulus and the inside world, and it’s just like clattered. Just disruptive of the nervous system. But that's what we’re going through too, all of us. Because we’ve allowed the hypnotic language patterns of the world, the hypnosis of the world to enter us and confuse us and trick us into thinking that that is who we are.

So, excellent. Excellent idea to do. It’s kind of like needing to do the laundry in my bedroom. I don’t know if anyone is like me but there's a laundry pile here on the floor, there's a laundry pile on the bed, there's a laundry pile on the dresser. But it’s like you need to kind of go through the laundry and be like, oh right, there's all these piles of clothing I need to kind of like sort and figure out which is the dirty, which is the clean, which gets hung, which gets put in the drawers. We need to do that inside ourselves. We need to sort the laundry in our own heart, in our own mind, in our own thoughts. And go, is this me? Is this really me? Those beliefs you’ve been holding onto for so long might not be me.

[01:07:56] Dr. Dain Heer: In fact, most of them are not us, which is a little confrontational for some people to hear, but when you're functioning from something that’s not truly you, it’s always heavy. It doesn’t have a lightness, it doesn’t have any peace to it. And yet, we keep trying to take those things and find a way to rearrange them in our head or think if we just do something different or we’d be something different or we say something different and we think something different, then somehow it’s all going to become light rather than going through your house and going, “Holy crap, I have 2000 pieces of laundry and only six of them are mine.” 

[01:08:36] Ashley James: Well, yeah, right, because I’m doing the family laundry. But this is like doing the world’s laundry. You're driving down the street listening to the radio and people are throwing their laundry at you.

[01:08:45] Dr. Dain Heer: Totally. How many times have we had that? As another acknowledgement of this, it’s like, how many times have you been having a great day, things are wonderful, you're happy, you're on cloud 9, man, you're driving to work and all of a sudden you get this ping or this something where you're like, “Oh my God, I’m afraid, or I’m angry,” or, “Oh, I don’t like my husband,” you know, where you probably don’t have that one because of your relationship which is awesome. Okay, but a lot of people do because they're primed for it. It makes sense to them that that could be something that they would feel and then what do they do? They go back and look over their day and look to the last day and look for the moment that justifies that emotion. But what if it’s just somebody driving by you having that very intensely and they're throwing their laundry on your car and in your car? And this occurs all the time and nobody is talking about it. Even when I say it to people, they're like, “Oh, that couldn’t be the case. Somebody would have told me by now.” I’m like, that's why I’m here. I’m telling you. And they’re like, “Oh, it couldn’t be the case. That's just too big. That's too much.” I’m like, “No, it’s actually what goes on.” And I am blessed to work with people and see this concept as it dawns in their world change the exact physical and mental and emotional thing that’s going on for them. But 

[01:10:19] Ashley James: But there's also past unresolved events where we’re holding on to this gestalt of negative emotions from the past, negative emotions that we created, that we had a response to something. It could be anger or sadness. Then, we’re holding onto it and caring it with us. This was years ago, but I remember very distinctively we’re driving on St. Rose Parkway in Las Vegas with my husband. I say something and his response was not what I expected. It was like frustrated, angry, kind of combative. And I’m like, wow, what I said did not warrant that. I look at him and in an instant, I wanted to engage in a fight and defend myself. But instead, I paused and kind of took a breath, and this was years of personal growth work. I was like, oh, finally, I can put a pause in between and go, wait a second, interesting response, not what I expected. Where is this coming from? And he goes, oh, because he kind of started picking a fight with me. He thought I was going to engage in this fight and I just sort of backed off and went, “That’s not mine. I don’t own this.” 

[01:11:29] Dr. Dain Heer: Cool. 

[01:11:31] Ashley James: And it was silence for a few stop lights and then he said, “I was just talking to my ex-wife. Whatever you said, however you said it, whatever angle your face was, whatever it was, I was in a conversation with my ex-wife and I was fighting with her. You were not in this vehicle with me. It was my ex-wife.” And I’m like, wow! That's really amazing that sometimes we’re bringing our past and projecting it onto the current person or current experience, and it’s nothing to do with the now. How does that play into this role of who does this belong to? Because what if it belongs to us but it really doesn’t belong to this circumstance or the person we’re talking to?

[01:12:13] Dr. Dain Heer: Yeah. So a couple of things with that. I just want to acknowledge your response to that because let’s look at the other side. Had you chosen to resist and react, now we would have a fight on our hands that had nothing with either of you, which is where a lot of people are living and then it gets so twisted that it creates such separation. This is always when that occurs. If the fight or if the disagreement or the argument actually has a basis, then if we’re interested of course in becoming more aware, we can almost always get to what’s actually underneath it, if we’re willing to be vulnerable enough and go there. But if it doesn’t, it creates this weird twist that leaves a really bad taste in both people’s mouths and once again, nobody’s ever looked from this place of what if it’s not mine. So, to address your actual question, I just wanted to point this out because I know a lot of people have had arguments with people where they're like, what did I do wrong? What? And this actually explains it and this is why for me, having access to these tools is so valuable which is what is this, what do I do with it, like what is this really? And is it mine? Is it theirs? What do I do with it? Can I change it? And if so, how?

So, another thing that can be helpful in this regard is who am I being? Or, who is this person being? Where you're doing something and you know it doesn’t feel like you and that time you’ll know because we’ve learned, like he said, he was having an argument with his ex-wife, and that was probably something where he learned to be a particular thing for someone based on whatever was considered love in his family or hers, which isn’t necessarily love. But we will do the strangest things because we had people who said they loved us and yelled at us. People who said they loved us and judged us. People who said they loved us and abused us.

So, we’re like, “Oh, I love you, I’ll do the same thing because that's love obviously.” And so, we can ask, who am I being and how old am I being. Then, if it’s a who am I being, get the sense of like, wow, I sound just like my mother right now. Or, this is exactly the energy I saw my mom and dad have with each other. Okay, cool. Well, everything that is, POC and POD which is that clearing statement thing, which goes back to the point of wherever that was created and undoes the polarity of it, allows it to dissolve. So, that can be who am I being, how old am I being. We have so many instances, so many situations we have been involved in over the course of our lives. It doesn’t have to be a really big thing. But if you ask how old am I being, oftentimes you’ll get a sense of an age and then an energy of a situation which is like okay, and then you go, okay, so what happened? Oh, okay, two. What happened at two? Oh, my parents got divorced. Okay. So, what part of this are you playing right now? Is this truly you? Oftentimes that acknowledgment of “it’s not really me”, because the thing that we will fight the hardest for, the thing we will get most intensely defensive about and for, is the thing that we bought when we were younger that is not ours. And it’s very intense when we do that.

So, asking these questions can start to give us some awareness, adding this clearing statement to it and we now have awareness. The clearing statement allows us to undo everything we’ve aligned and agreed with, resisted and reacted to. Everything we’re avoiding and defending that holds it in place as though it’s ours when it wasn’t. 

[01:16:33] Ashley James: When someone is in an intense emotion, I’m going to use myself as an example, because this is first thing that came to mind, but like, I’m homeschooling and I get super frustrated and I know these are not my emotions. I know they’re my mom. I act like my mom so much when I get in a state of frustration. But in the moment, it’s like, it lit up in my neurology. I’m feeling it in my heart. Like my heart is beating and I’m just feeling it through my body. And I want to get back to me. I want to stop being my mom and stop playing that role, I’m going to get back to me. But in the moment, it’s like I got my adrenals going. It’s kind of like asking her to slam on the breaks, right? So, what do you have as a technique for doing that state change, doing that shift? Like, you're shifting from the fifth gear to the first gear, right? And so, in the moment though, there's a little resistance like I don’t want to give this up. There's like this righteousness, right, in a not-so-great way. This is like getting a little pay-off, like a little payout from being this charged at people. But we know in the back of our mind, we’re now like, hey, you're acting like your mom now, this isn’t really healthy.

So, you have some awareness that you shouldn’t be doing this but at the same time, you're asking your neurology to like, okay, shift down to first gear. What do you have as a technique for helping us to get back into who we are, our authentic self, and separate from and kind of like send it with love back to sender, getting back to who we are and acting from those emotions, the intense emotions?

[01:18:21] Dr. Dain Heer: So, number one, we’ve got to have the willingness to not be right in that situation. We’ve got to go “okay, I realize I’m trying to be right here.” And then, do that thing of “Am I truly being me? If not, who am I being?” Two other things you can do. Number one, you go POC and POD everything I did to buy this as mine when I wasn’t. POC and POD everything I’ve created and uncreated as a result. And now return to sender and then POC and POD all that. POC stands for going back to the point of creation of the thoughts, feelings, emotions immediately preceding the decision or the point of destruction of the same, because we can create limitation in two ways. We can create a limitation, a fixed point of view, or we can destroy in that moment what’s true for us and take on something that's not, which is what this is. 

The next thing you can do is use this tool. Everybody out there, you can take some upset that you still have in your world that’s been there maybe for the last few days or weeks, and just do this interesting point of view. I have this point of view. Which is Point of View, by the way. IPOV. Interesting point of view, I have this point of view. Usually, what will happen is it’ll shift a little bit and then again, you go, interesting point of view, I have this point of view. It’ll shift again. Interesting point of view, I have this point of view. Interesting point of view, I have this point of view. Interesting point of view, I have this point of view. Which is what you were doing when your husband was having an argument with his ex while you were there. It was like interesting point of view, it’s okay, no problem, no reaction, no resistance. What this does is it takes us out of our resistance and reaction that we think we are justified for going into when somebody pushes our buttons or brings up something that’s intense. 

Another part of it, we can say interesting point of view, they have this point of view a few times, so that we’re more willing to be in allowance of their point of view. Then, the last one is, interesting point of view that I have this point of view, that they have this point of view. Usually, that creates space. 

[01:21:01] Ashley James: Brilliant. Luckily, we transcribe all these episodes, so listeners, go to It takes us about two weeks or so after we release the episode to all the podcast directories, but you should be able to go back to in a few weeks and we’ll have the transcript up. So, we can go through and read this and then, copy, paste, put it in your cellphone, put it in your notes and put it on sticky notes, put it around the house. And practice it. I just love this idea if we could just clear out the internal laundry. Like you said, you went around Rome just with no thoughts in your head and it’s not that you weren’t there. You were there but you weren’t carrying the world in your head. It was you were just enjoying yourself, you cleared out everyone else. Just you and your head. That's so nice. It’s so peaceful. What a vacation, right? Just you and your head. And how happy we would be removing 98 percent of the world’s depression, suicide, anger, addiction, all this stuff going on. The conflicts that are out there on purpose, right, because the media feeds off of your fear and creates conflict. Right? Instead of unity. And how much of that have we taken on? So just imagine a world where it’s only you and your head and your own feelings instead of taking on the world. 

Beautiful. I love it. I know you have to go. Thank you so much for coming on today and sharing this wonderful information and all the links to everything that Dr. Heer has is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at I want to make sure that you come back because this whole time, I’ve been thinking, man, I’d love to do an episode with you around addiction and addiction brain and helping people who are at this stage in their addiction when they're ready to give it up, they want to, or they’re fighting it, and they still keep having those internal fights and they want those tools. I feel like it would be great to have you back on the show for those who are actively working on healing their addiction brain.

[01:23:08] Dr. Dain Heer: Cool. Thank you.

[01:23:10] Ashley James: It’d be great. 

[01:23:10] Dr. Dain Heer: It would be my pleasure.

[01:23:11] Ashley James: Yeah, thank you so much. It’s been great and I can’t wait to talk to you again.

[01:23:15] Dr. Dain Heer: I look forward to it. Thanks, Ashley.

Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s interview with Dr. Dain Heer. Wasn’t he amazing? I just love his work and I can’t wait to have him back on the show to dig deeper into this wonderful topic. Sounds like he’s got a lot of even more tools that he can share with us. I want to make sure that you remember. I want your testimonials, so please, give them to me if you have one. You can email me or come join the Facebook group at to get into the Facebook group, and then just message me there or share it with the group there. Remember to go to to get the foundations of health, all free. Then, check out the structured water device. Go to Use the coupon code LTH. Check it out. If you get one, I want to hear what you think, come into the Facebook group and let us know. I’d love to hear your journey with it and what kind of results you get with it. Awesome. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about and helping to end people’s suffering because this suffering is needless and I want people to have that experience of true health inside them mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually. I want that for them. So let’s keep sharing this podcast and helping as many people as possible to learn true health.

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Dec 16, 2022

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494: Why Rx Drugs Are Destroying Emotional and Mental Health

We've been conditioned to believe that emotional and mental issues are the result of chemical imbalances, but that's a myth. An overwhelming number of people are taking prescription medications for emotional health problems, and the numbers are growing at an alarming rate. That's because, in many cases, pharmaceutical drugs fail to address the root cause of emotional issues. The drugs we take to treat the symptoms of a condition could be causing more problems than they are treating. Join Dr. Michael Biamonte and Ashley James as they dig into why this is the case and how you can cure your emotional and mental health problems today!

Ashley James And Dr. Michael Biamonte


  • The relationship between gut health and emotional and mental health
  • The chemical imbalance myth
  • Neurotransmitter testing
  • Hormonal imbalance
  • Heavy metal toxicity
  • The madness of marketing
  • Panic attacks and anxiety


Hello, true health seekers, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. Today, we have back on the show Dr. Michael Biamonte. He was in episode 486 and 488 where he taught us all about candida and how you can get candida back into balance. A lot of people say get rid of candida, kill candida, but what we learned from Dr. Michael Biamonte is many people have candida overgrowth and we need candida but we probably need 90 percent less candida than what we have and when it runs rampant in the body, it affects our brain, it affects every organ, it affects every system. It just kind of takes over and everything dominoes in the body. So, you could have bad sleep, you could have cravings, you could have weight gain, you could have hormone dysregulation. You could have brain fog. The list goes on and on and on. Of course, there’s digestive issue that happen like diarrhea and bloating and in some cases, constipation, and we see it affecting our ability to focus. So, those who have ADHD symptoms. Right? Our ability to learn, our ability to concentrate. Motivation, our motivation in life. Our feeling of drive, our feeling of sense of purpose, sense of fulfillment from life. This can get actually very existential. When we see the body as a whole, this is a holistic podcast – welcome, if you're new to Learn True Health podcast – this conversation is that the body is not broken into parts. Modern medicine, when you go to a regular doctor at any given clinic, a medical doctor, their education has trained them to see the body broken into parts. So, you go to the liver specialist over here, the heart specialist over here, the endocrinologist over here, the brain doctor over there, and it’s great that we have specialties. You know, if you have a broken arm or need to be put back together after an accident, God forbid, I’m so thankful that we have this type of medicine. However, what we do see, if you get a 30,000-foot view, is that modern pharmaceutical-based medicine is horrible, has an absolutely horrible track record for helping us to heal from chronic illness, for helping us to get the body back into optimal health.

How often do you see people actually get off of drugs, get off of pharmaceuticals and get so healthy they don’t need them and get even healthier before they went to the doctor? In most cases, they get put on more and more and more medications the older they get. Not less and less. This is the unfortunate truth, is that it is a for-profit industry and it’s a big juggernaut. But when you come to holistic medicine, you come to the side of holistic medicine, now of course there are good and bad… I don’t want to say bad doctors. There are far more competent doctors and far less competent doctors just like there are more competent mechanics. We are fallible, we are humans. Right? Don’t put anyone on a pedestal ever. We have to understand in holistic medicine, let’s assume we are seeing and referred to very competent and experienced holistic doctors, what we’re seeing is, the philosophy that guides them is completely different from Hollywood portrays as medicine. They look at you as a whole. So, when we talk about mental and emotional health, we have to also see that physical health plays a role in that. Because something like candida in those past episodes, 486 and 488, with Dr. Michael Biamonte, we talk about how candida overgrowth and in other episodes where we’ve had experts on small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and fungal overgrowth, parasites, all kinds of stuff that affects the gut, we’ve had many. I have at least 20 episodes that you can go back to and check out when you go to, scroll down from the homepage and you’ll see Choose Your Own Adventure and you can find the digestive stuff and parasites, and all wonderful fun things to dive into. That all these very physical, tangible things, have an effect on the intangible like our emotional being and our mental health, our sense of who we are and how we are right now in the moment can actually be affected by what’s going on in our gut. 

So, we look at the body as a whole and we look at your whole life as a whole. We look at everything impacting you. I think it’s so gratifying to have a practitioner look at you and wanting to see all of you and saying “hey, I know you’ve expressed to me that you’re feeling a lot of stress, you’re feeling a lot of sorrow, or you’re feeling grief, or you feel anxiety,” and not discrediting those emotions and also not discrediting that there’s other aspects of your life like the role you play, the roles you play in your life and everything in your environment, and all of that, looking at your life as a whole and including your physical health. Let’s get some lab work done but let’s also talk about your spiritual health, your spiritual life, your mental and emotional health. Let’s talk about your environment, let’s talk about your relationships. So, looking at everything as a whole. 

That’s what Dr. Biamonte is here to discuss today, this wonderful viewpoint—looking at mental and emotional health from the holistic standpoint. Some of what he has to share today is going to rock your world, it was absolutely fascinating. I think I said the word “fascinating” 20 times in the interview because of how fascinating it was. I feel like I’m Spock, “That’s fascinating.” He shares some crazy statistics. I want you to really let them sink in. He kind of pulls us out of the matrix today in this interview. He shares with us stuff that we just let slide like the effects that certain drugs have on the human psyche and have on suicide rates, and yet, we just let these pharmaceutical companies slide, we just let it all side like the status quo is fine, everything is fine; meanwhile, everything is burning down. And I so hope that what he shares with you today helps you, gives you another piece of that puzzle that helps to direct your life so that you can learn true health, create true health in your life.

My husband has actually started working with Dr. Biamonte on a personal level doing the candida protocol. We’ve done some labs with him. First of all, let me tell you. I am as impressed with him in my interviews as I am working with him as a doctor, because my husband lets me in on their telemedicine calls. He’s a very caring, fantastic doctor, right to the point. Functional medicine, I should say. He really does deal with functional medicine. I’ve enjoyed the labs he’s had my husband do and the analysis of those labs, really interesting. And now, my husband is starting the diet and the supplement protocol, so I’ll keep you guys posted on how that goes, but so far, working with him has really been great. Definitely give him a call if you’re called to, if you find he’s interesting because so far, I’m really impressed and, well, the proof is in the pudding so we’ll see how my husband does after a few months on the protocol. I’ll let you guys know.

There’s a few resources I want to make sure that you are aware of. Especially if you're new to the podcast or newer to the podcast, I haven’t mentioned it in a while, but I have this great resource I built out with some of my favorite holistic naturopathic doctors. You can go to That's and I filmed a 7-day beautiful free course, less than 10 minutes a day kind of thing but it gets right to the point, the foundations of health. These are fantastic naturopaths and they have some great advice. This is actual steps that everyone will benefit from no matter what health issues you have – mental, emotional, physical, spiritual. It deals with the foundation of things that we should absolutely be doing to build our health no matter what. So, definitely check that out. Every day I email you one of the videos we made along with some great homework and tools for you. These are things that I often remind myself, “Oh yeah, I need to go back and do these things.” These are the basics but if you're missing one, it’s like missing a tire on your car. Your car’s not going to go anywhere. So, you have to have these foundations to have fantastic health.

The next thing I really want to make sure you know about. Because so many of my listeners end up becoming holistic health coaches, either for their own personal growth and their own health goals, or they’re just drawn to it and they want either add this to their career, have it as a hobby side career, or they want to completely transition into doing full-time holistic health coaching. Check out That's You get a sample class from Institute for Integrative Nutrition. That's where I went. It’s an online program designed for very busy people. So, if you're like, for example, full-time job and a mom or a dad and you’ve just got a lot on your plate, you can still graduate from the program. It takes a year. You do about 20 minutes a day. Sometimes if I was really busy, I would just accumulate all of my lessons for that week and do them all on a Sunday. Oftentimes I’d listen to them where I was cooking, doing laundry, driving. So, if you listen to a podcast, you could absolutely a year from now, be a holistic health coach. If you want to become more of a full-time student, it’s about 40 minutes to an hour a day. They have a six-month accelerated program. So you could check either one of those out, but I love that they designed it knowing that usually, it’s not someone’s career, you jump out of high school and go, “I’m going to be a health coach,” boom. You know, 17, 18, 19 years old taking the course when you have all the time in the world. Usually, it’s not your first career and it’s something that you already have an existing career, you're super busy and you have to somehow fit it into your life. What I love about the IIN, the Institute for Integrative Nutrition’s health coach training program, is your life gets transformed while you're doing it. You learn from amazing… it’s like if you love my podcast, it’s like my podcast TED Talks, like each week is digesting 3 or 4 amazing TED Talks on health and then they give you homework that you get to apply to your own life. So, each week you're adding almost like the foundations of health but you're adding more and more to your life.

Holistic health coaching is looking at your life holistically. It’s not just dietary theory. Yes, you do learn a hundred dietary theories in that course but that’s not even important. As a health coach, you're really helping people to get to their health goals by listening to them and drawing out of them the answers that they’re most of the time already in them. Then you help them crowd out their plate when it comes to eating, helping them bring joy into their life in every area of their life, so helping to identify what areas are missing joy. If you in your life are missing joy in certain areas of your life, you should definitely check out the sample class and consider “could I bring joy to every area of my life through this program?” Because that’s what I loved about the program, is it really helped to unfold and bring forth joy in each area of your life. It has you look at under a lens in a different way each area of your life. So you end up at the end of the program feeling much more fulfilled, satisfied, and joyous in your life as a whole in your body, but also in your world, in your relationships.

They say almost half, I think it’s like 47 percent of people that do the program just do it for their own personal growth, so I thought that was really cool. Right now, IIN’s having an amazing sale. I don’t know when it’s going to end, it’s going to end soon so you should go to and just check it out and see. Right now, they're offering a big discount and they are offering to sign up for I think it was $49 or something just to get started just as the down payment. Sometimes, a few times a year, they do these sales so it’s great to check out. But if you're checking this out and that sale is over, what I want you to know is that when I took the program, I asked them if they would give a discount to all my listeners because I talk about it so much and I’ve actually interviewed many of their teachers. So, they do give a great discount. Make sure you mention the Learn True Health podcast with Ashley James and say, “Hey, Ashley James said I’d get a discount. Make sure you give it to me.” So, yeah, check that out. Let me know if you have any questions. You can always ask me questions in the Facebook group, in the Learn True Health Facebook group. I’d love to see you there and answer questions. Every day I’m in that group answering questions. Not just me but there's other holistic health professionals in the group.

Every day when someone asks a question, there's a bunch I was jumping in to help and give our feedback. Feel free to join the Learn True Health Facebook group. You can go to to join the Facebook group. Make sure you check out the free sample class from the Institute for Integrative Nutrition for their health coaching program. You go to If you want the free class that created with some of my favorite naturopaths, you can go to and you’ll be given the 7-day class. It’s absolutely free. Something that I created out of love for you guys because it’s so needed. This is the foundations of health. Everyone listening should do those things that you learn in the 7-day course and everyone sees a benefit from doing it. So, I want all of you guys to have that benefit. I love you. I know you and I personally don’t know each other or maybe we do because I’ve actually met several of my listeners. But if you are struggling and you need help, please join the Facebook group because I don’t want to struggle.

What I want you to know, especially if you're a new listener you might not know this, I suffered for many years. I cried myself to sleep. I’d burst into tears often at how much I suffered. I had major chronic illnesses throughout my 20’s and it was very difficult. I know what that feels like. I don’t want you to suffer. If you're suffering, I don’t want you to suffer anymore. I have seen people recover from so many conditions they were told where “unrecoverable.” I believe in your body’s ability to heal itself. I believe that you can improve your situation no matter what. It has to start with you believing and so I want to let you know I believe in you and I believe in your body’s ability to heal and take these resources, take the free sample class from IIN and see if you get something out of it. Definitely take my free course and come join the Facebook group, ask for help. Pore through the answers. You can use the search function in the group. You can also use the search function on my website to find many resources. There are so many resources out there in the holistic world. You have to dig for them. But we’re here to help. The Learn True Health Facebook group is here to help you because we’re a whole community. We’re actually a community of over 5000 listeners and we’re here to help each other. 

So, suffering is needless and suffering is optional. This is what actually a few of my guests have come on the show and said. Suffering is optional, let’s make it optional. Let’s make it optional by discovering the tools, sharing the tools. As I constantly am uncovering these amazing holistic tools, I bring them to you because I know that they're going to help.

Now, what I’m planning for episode 500, and it’s been on my heart for a while now, is I’d like to do a testimonial episode. I received so many testimonials of people who have shared that through this podcast learning from the guests and from me. Their lives have been transformed, their health has been changed. In some cases, they actually saved a relative’s life, which is huge. There's one woman who saved her mom’s life. Her mom would not have lived if it wasn’t for this podcast. How big is that? So, if you have a testimonial listening to this podcast, please send it to me. You can send it to me. Come into the Facebook group and share it. I’d love to see it there, and other listeners would love to see it there too. You can message it to me on Facebook. I’d also love to include it. I don’t have to include your name if you're uncomfortable with that. I’ve been collecting testimonials so I can create that episode.

I think it’s so important. I know when I was suffering, hearing testimonials really helped. When I lost my daughter last year, I think the biggest thing that helped besides my connection with God was hearing testimonials of women who had lost their children and they're living, they're living their life, they’re happy, they were able to heal from it because at the time, I couldn’t see a way out. I couldn’t see that I could heal from it. So testimonials have, even though you might discredit your testimonial like “oh, who am I, my story is not so big,” but if you were suffering and now you're no longer suffering, sometimes that right there, that little story you have, is actually huge to someone else. It’s lifechanging to someone else. So, when I heard, my midwife was sharing with me some other women that she had worked with who like “oh yeah, this mom’s third child diet and now she has three more and she’s so happy.” Just those kind of stories, those type of testimonials might not seem like a lot but for those who need to hear them, it really helps. So please, if you have any kind of transformation, any kind of story of healing, please reach out to me because your story, even though you might not think it’s important, it could be lifechanging for someone else. And that's what I’m about. That’s what this podcast is about – it’s about helping as many people as possible to learn true health.

So, thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about and thank you so much for sharing your testimonials with me so I can create that episode, episode 500. Whatever holidays you celebrate this month, you know, can be stressful a lot for many people. I recognize that you might not be listening to this episode in December although I’m releasing it in December. I want to wish you peaceful, gentle healing and loving holidays. Since I do celebrate Christmas, Merry Christmas for those who celebrate Christmas and for those who celebrate anything else. I wish everyone to have gentle, peaceful, loving season to let the stress go and replace it with love and peace in your heart and in your life and in your environment around you. Because we don’t need stress. That is not healthy for any of us. So, I love you all and enjoy today’s episode. 

[00:19:23] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 494.

I am so excited for today’s guest. We have back on the show Dr. Michael Biamonte. What I love about today’s interview is we’re going to do some major myth busting. This is like pull you out of the matrix. We’re going to take you out and show you that you’ve been raised in a system that teaches you that you need drugs to suppress, to change, to manage your brain chemistry, your biochemistry. And when it comes to mental health and emotional health, the word “health”, they shouldn’t even be allowed to use the word “health” because it is so far from health. When it comes to emotional and mental health and prescription drugs, and I’m so excited to have you on the show to talk about this topic today. Dr. Biamonte was in episode 486 and 488. In those two episodes, we really did a deep dive into candida and gut health. Now there's a large correlation between gut health and brain health, and I definitely want to touch on that since that is one of your expertise. But you did mention in episode 488 that one of your favorite things to do is to take your patients or your clients and to help them get so healthy that they're off all their meds especially when it comes to mental and emotional medications. So, looking forward to doing a deep dive there. Welcome back on the show.

[00:21:03] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Thank you very much. I’m happy to be here.

[00:21:05] Ashley James: Excellent. Now, listeners can go to your website which is and of course, the links everything that Dr. Michael Biamonte does is going be in the show notes of today’s podcast at I’d love to know because your expertise has largely been around gut health or getting candida back in balance in the body instead of having an overgrowth of it for so many years. At what point while you were practicing and working with people and helping them, at what point did you go “Wait a second. I can help people get emotionally and mentally healthy” to the point where they're no longer on all these meds?

[00:21:47] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Probably in the late ‘80s when I started to see a correlation between several things. First was constipation. I had so many patients tell me “Gee. Since my constipation is handled and I’m no longer constipated, I feel so much happier. My mood is better. I feel lighter as a person. Not physically. They were speaking about more of their own being. They just felt lighter and happier.” So I started researching this and it also was part of my research into candida. I found the correlation between neurotransmitters and the digestive tract. I didn’t know that the body shuttled neurotransmitters and hormones in and out of the bloodstream to the digestive system and back and forth. Sort of like the body will the digestive tract as a holding tank for neurotransmitters and hormones and then pull them back into the bloodstream when needed.

When I understood the mechanism, it made sense as to why these people were now telling me that since they're not constipated, they feel so much happier and quite a few of them went off their antidepressants as a result of that. Some of my colleagues said “Well, that’s probably because their thyroid function improved.” But I actually did find the reference. Unfortunately, I forgot which book it was, but I think it might have been a book by Dr. Whitaker where he went over the fact that the body does pull these neurotransmitters and hormones back and forth in the digestive tract and out of the digestive tract, and you can’t do that if you have dysbiosis. So, you have to have a normal functioning digestive system in order to be able to do that. The other correlation I started to see was in people who had very high copper levels, and that goes back to Dr. Pfeiffer’s work at the Brain Biocenter in Princeton, NJ where he had cited that schizophrenics were very high in copper. He basically laid out that if he detoxed a schizophrenic from copper, his schizophrenia would go away and a lot of his mental health issues would go away that a lot of this was copper toxicity. 

I started hearing more and more from these people who were copper toxic about their mood swings, about how they try to sleep at night and they had racing thoughts and they just couldn’t shut it off and couldn’t go to sleep. It matched a lot of the, well, not a lot but some of the data that I was seeing in psychiatric books, of course they had no idea it was being caused by copper toxicity. But sure enough, when these people were detoxed from the copper, these symptoms would go away. 

So, I guess that was probably the initial thing that set me off on this. But once I armed with that knowledge, I knew there was a lot more. I knew I was just basically scratching the surface. I knew there was a lot more and that’s what led me to dive into it much deeper. I read a book in 2015 which really helped put this together for me. It’s called Deadly Psychiatry and Organized Denial by Dr. Peter Getzsche. He presented data suggesting that psychiatric drugs kill about half a million Americans and Europeans over the age of 65 per year. He also pointed out that in terms of long-term outcomes, people in less developed countries have far fewer problems with mental health and problems with drugs. Obviously, the answer is because they don’t have the availability. As you and I were saying once, on one of the podcasts, people nowadays, their availability to just go to a psychiatrist or even their medical doctor and say “I’m depressed, give me a pill,” they can do this very easily.

We were discussing also that our grandparents growing up had tough times. You’d come to this country and back in those days, times were tough. They had to struggle and bring themselves up by their bootstraps. They couldn’t just go to a doctor and say “I’m new to this country, I’m having trouble getting a job. Give me a pill.” 

[00:26:07] Ashley James: I have family members, I have friends who they're struggling and their doctor very quickly got them on multiple meds, depression, anxiety, and sleep meds and just thinking back to my grandmother who had to bury several of her siblings while escaping the war in a train with no heating, Just like the horror stories, right? And she was never on any psychiatric meds. She lived a full long life, a beautiful life. Kids, grandkids. Our grandparents and great grandparents had, in some cases, much harder times than we’re going through, not to belittle the struggles that we go through. But they didn’t have access to these drugs and these drugs, in many cases, are band-aids. I’d rather have someone, if a drug could stop someone from committing suicide, I’d rather have them be on that drug. But what we’re seeing is actually the opposite. We’re seeing that in a lot of cases, going to the drug ends up being that band-aid that then doesn’t let them go through and do the emotional and mental healing.

[00:27:14] Dr. Michael Biamonte: And the growth. Their own personal growth at the same time. 

[00:27:20] Ashley James: Right. And then, we’re still seeing the suicide rates go up and in our youth right now, I believe suicide is the first or second. Either the first or the second leading cause of death in ages I think it was like 12 to 25. It’s very scary and sad how rampant this problem is becoming. I can’t help but think that, obviously, there's gut issues. We have an over toxic world. There's 80,000 new man-made chemicals in the last 40 years. The environment, the milieu, the day-to-day existence is toxic compared to what it was one generation, two generations ago. 

So, we are facing a different world. Our biology is facing a different world than our grandparents. But at the same time, we have to look back and go, how is it that for many generations, we could live through the tough times and grow and learn and support each other and create an ecosystem of support and growth? Then now, we are more isolated than ever. We are more depressed than ever. We have incredibly high suicide rates. The first thing we’re given when we go to a doctor is a drug that has a bunch of side effects.

[00:28:38] Dr. Michael Biamonte: That's the swing that we’ve had in the last 50 years where instead of self-reliance, we have entitlement—and entitlement also offers people these drugs, unfortunately.

[00:28:50] Ashley James: So, the purpose of having you on today isn’t to make people who are on these drugs feel guilty. That's the exact opposite.

[00:28:55] Dr. Michael Biamonte: No of course.

[00:28:57] Ashley James: You help patients all the time to get so healthy that they’re no longer on these medications and that they also feel freedom and they feel amazing again emotionally and mentally. I want to clarify something you talked about before we move on to how you go about doing this. When you said around the world 65 and older, I think you said, what was it, like 2 million people die of psychiatric drugs.

[00:29:23] Dr. Michael Biamonte: What I was referring is that in the developed world, and the developed part of the world as opposed to the underdeveloped, you have so many more people dying from psychiatric drugs than you do in the underdeveloped parts in the world. It’s primarily because the drugs are unavailable in underdeveloped parts of the world. The book I was talking about before was Deadly Psychiatry and Organized Denial by Peter Gøtzsche. He talks about psychiatric drugs kill approximately half a million Americans over the age of 65 every year. That's horrifying!

[00:29:55] Ashley James: Wow. What is killing them exactly? 

[00:30:01] Dr. Michael Biamonte: What’s killing them is a combination of things. But it’s in part the side effects of the drugs. The drugs cause various side effects in the cardiovascular system and completely damage the gut health. So, then you have whatever problems you then want to postulate from gut health coming from that. You also have mass suicides that have occurred in these people. The FDA trials for Prozac, they covered up. And I know they covered it up because I have the actual reports from Eli Lilly. They covered up so many suicides that occurred in people on the Prozac trials. Why that occurs, you still hear it nowadays on TV. You turn on the TV and the big joke is the pharmaceutical commercial goes on and it lists a hundred million side effects that you could have. They have children playing in the park on the background, you know.

But it’s understanding how the drugs works, gives you a better understanding of why people die from them and why there are suicides. The typical antidepressant, your SSRI, which is an uptake inhibitor of serotonin, it doesn’t work by boosting your serotonin. It boosts by restricting it. Prozac actually stops your brain’s reabsorption of serotonin in order to make the serotonin receptor sites in your brain more acute and more excitable. So, it’s creating a deficiency to try to make something create like a sparring effect. The idea behind the drugs is that if you block the brain’s ability to reabsorb serotonin, then the brain has to do a much better job with the amount of serotonin it has. That works in some people. But in other people, it doesn’t work. It causes a crashing serotonin deficiency which is why of the side effects you’ll hear them talk about when they discuss Prozac or SSRI side effects is suicide or extreme massive depression.

[00:32:08] Ashley James: If you're stopping, blocking the cells from uptaking the… I mean, could see maybe if they did that temporarily like give you Prozac for a week and then take you off of it to try to resensitize the cells, but to keep you on it, how would keeping you always on it resensitize the cells to uptaking serotonin?

[00:32:29] Dr. Michael Biamonte: It doesn’t. Which is why these drugs ultimately are a failure. It’s in part a lot of politicians and bureaucrats that work in the industry have allowed this go on. There's the chemical imbalance myth. I call it a myth. But you hear these for years. You’ve been hearing the doctors quote that this chemical imbalance exists. Well, I can tell you about the chemical imbalance from the viewpoint of really scientific viewpoint of someone who tests. But in big pharma and psychiatrists, they for decades have claimed that the mentally ill have this chemical imbalance but yet, there has never been one single test or one single study that’s ever confirmed anything that they’ve said. In the British Psychology Society, there's a report in there, very interesting. It goes on to say that the chemical imbalance of neurotransmitters such as serotonin has remained unproven.

Now, I can tell you, however, from the viewpoint of someone who actually tests people that when I test people who come to me who are on these drugs or who have these issues, we will occasionally find a person who does have the serotonin deficiency. So, I can say, I am at liberty and I can say with authority that I can find a chemical imbalance in some of these people. But I’m testing them and the difference between myself and other practitioners, particularly psychiatrists, is they never test anyone. They don’t even know that these tests exist. But I can occasionally test someone and find their serotonin is low or their cortisol is too high or I can find some type of neurotransmitter imbalance and thank God for the work of the late Dr. Gottfried Kellermann from Neuroscience Labs who formulated an entire line of nutritional supplements that are all based on some of the patterns that you find in these neurotransmitter urine tests that are available by Functional Labs. His nutritional formulas are aimed at normalizing these imbalances. If your dopamine is too high, your dopamine is too low or whatever, your serotonin, he developed formulas which you can use on people that actually would balance it. He’s not doing something that’s hokey pokey where he has supplements and they’re starving the brain of these nutrients. He’s actually giving the person the precursors of these nutrients. He discovered that there are many herbs that work to excite those neurotransmitter receptor sites. So, he can accomplish with his formulas a natural way of going about what these drugs are doing in a destructive way.

[00:35:28] Ashley James: Fascinating, what you just said. You said psychiatrists don’t test.

[00:35:33] Dr. Michael Biamonte: No. I dare anyone to email or call in on this show who’s had a psychiatrist, not a functional medical doctor. I have never heard of, and if you go through all the psychiatrist data, if you go through the DSM-V, you look at all these books, you're not going to find any mention of any testing that's recommending or any protocol for testing. It doesn’t exist. They don’t do it.

[00:36:01] Ashley James: So they go based on your symptoms like “oh yeah, I can clearly see this person’s depressed,” or, “I’m diagnosing this person with bipolar based on what they’re sharing with me and their behavior,” and then they just put them on drugs and they don’t test them to see could there be a different imbalance.

There's one of my naturopathic mentors often find some people who are misdiagnosed with bipolar who have out-of-control blood sugar swings.

[00:36:26] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Or hormonal imbalances. That's another huge one in women. In women, PMS. They're constantly putting women on all these psychiatric drugs for PMS. Where the woman would be better off taking zinc and vitamin B6. She would get more relief from her PMS doing that than taking these drugs. 

[00:36:45] Ashley James: Fascinating. Yeah, since the last two years, I upped my zinc and I have noticed that I don’t have any symptoms. I always get surprised when my period comes because I have zero symptoms.

[00:36:59] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Well, zinc and B6 are cofactors to progesterone. They help mobilize progesterone. Normally, when you think of PMS, you think of high estrogen to progesterone ratio or estrogen dominance. And B6 and zinc help smooth that out. They help bolster progesterone.

[00:37:16] Ashley James: Wow. That's just fascinating. So, when comes to you and they have depression, what’s your first few questions for them?

[00:37:30] Dr. Michael Biamonte: My first few questions is why. Why do you have depression? What’s the situation? Who’s involved in this situation? A lot of times, they’ll rattle off names immediately. “Well, I’m depressed because my business partner is doing this.” “I’m depressed because my spouse is doing this or my child does this or my neighbor does this…” A lot of times they’ll just ring it right off. In that situation, I encourage them to handle the real-life situation they have and not take a pill and go hide in the closet.

When a person can’t come up with what it is, then we will do different testing if that's their main problem. A lot of times you get patients with candida come in and they talk about depression very often. So, if that’s the case, we’re going to treat the candida and see if the depression goes away in that line. But let’s say the person just comes in, he’s depressed, he doesn’t know why, he doesn’t really have any other outstanding physiological symptoms. Well, sure, then we’ll go ahead and we’ll do a neurotransmitter test. We’ll check out his blood sugar, check out his hormones, and 9 out of 10 times we’re going to find there’s a physiological reason which flies in the face of the gene finding theory that for years, psychiatrists have been saying that genetic factors have a substantial role in mental illness and even says in the DSM-V but yet, in actuality, there's no evidence that this is true. As a matter of fact, what was his name, David Kupfer several decades ago said we’re still waiting to discover biological and genetic markers for mental illness. They still haven’t found this. That was in a taskforce that I think he was the chair of.

So, they throw these things out, these things become catchphrases. Chemical imbalance. Genetic defects that lead to mental… they throw these things that they become catchwords but when you actually pull the string and look into them, there is no evidence behind them that they exist. 

[00:39:42] Ashley James: Tell us a bit more about the neurotransmitter testing that you do when someone has depression and you're suspecting that there might be an imbalance.

[00:39:53] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Well, we do a urine test that they're available through several labs. I believe Great Plains, Doctor’s Data, and Genova Labs easily offer them. Those are the bigger labs. They offer, it’s a urine collection. The urine collection goes to the lab, the lab looks for the neurotransmitters. There’s a certain amount of interpretation skill needed because sometimes, high levels of neurotransmitters in urine can indicate a loss of the neurotransmitter. So, let’s say you find a high amount of serotonin. The high amount of serotonin may not mean they have a lot. It might mean they’re losing it. But there's usually a pattern involved in that. Like very often, you’ll see the person has high cortisol which blocks serotonin, so you can see they have high cortisol and then high serotonin. Well, in that case, you know that the high cortisol is blocking the serotonin and causing a loss of it. So, that's what I mean by there's a certain amount of interpretation skill. But for the most part, when you do that test, it lays out all the neurotransmitters and show you the ratios between the ones that are very important that work together. It lets you see what’s high and what’s low. So, then you have an idea if there’s any actual evidence and reality that the person has an imbalance with the neurotransmitters. More often than not, when we find these imbalances and we put them on the right nutritional support, they feel better. 

[00:41:17] Ashley James: Interesting that high cortisol blocks serotonin. I’m just trying to think of why that would be because your body needs to be in fight or flight mode and not in like super happy mode.

[00:41:27] Dr. Michael Biamonte: No, it’s a matter of the receptor sites. Cortisol jams up the serotonin receptor sites. 

[00:41:33] Ashley James: They fight for the receptor sites.

[00:41:35] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Yeah, cortisol blocks the receptor sites so the serotonin then can’t go and attach itself to the receptor site that easily. So, it’s not being utilized so it then builds up and then it’s excreted in your urine. 

[00:41:48] Ashley James: So, someone who let’s say have high cortisol because they’ve been chronically stressed out and it doesn’t have to be emotional or mental stress, it can also be physical stress like the body’s fighting let’s say a chronic candida infection. Their body is in a state of stress, they have higher than normal cortisol levels. Maybe they're also not sleeping well at night, maybe they're using alcohol to manage their “stress”, so they're doing things that increase cortisol and then they go to a doctor and they say “I’m really depressed and I have sleep problems” and the doctor puts them on an SSRI. Their body is making enough serotonin but maybe even trying to make more serotonin, but the cortisol is blocking it and then they take a drug because the doctor did no testing at all to figure out the root cause. Then they're taking an SSRI that’s then blocking the serotonin further, pushing them further into being out of balance. 

[00:42:46] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Yes, this is true. I’d give you one from the backdoor. There was a patient I had for years. She finally moved away, she moved to California but for years, I was treating this woman. Every September, her hormone tests would start to go out of balance. I asked her millions of questions as to what’s going on and she never came up with the answer until finally, I asked her, well, what’s different about this time of year than any other time of year. Then she suddenly blurted out the L’eggs Mini Marathon. So I said, “alright, tell me more.” She says, “Well, every year I run the L’eggs Mini Marathon in New York City, so I start training for it in August and the race is in October.” That was exactly coincidental with when her cortisol and other hormones started to go out of balance. So, from the training she was doing, the running she was doing, which you could say an excess of what the average person would do, that was raising her cortisol. So you see, it could be something that innocent. 

[00:44:01] Ashley James: You need to do the deep dive. This is why it’s so dangerous at times to go to a traditional medical doctor or go to a head doctor and say, “I got depression” without doing the deep dive. These band-aids are causing more damage than good.

[00:44:23] Dr. Michael Biamonte: A colleague of mine wrote an article called Why Your Insurance is Making You Sick. Backtracking on the whole thing, he was pointing out that people will go to their doctors their insurance will cover. A lot of these doctors don’t know what they’re doing, so by engaging in the doctor that's going to be covered by their insurance, they're actually getting sicker because they're not going to the doctor who would find out what was really going on. 

[00:44:48] Ashley James: Ha! That is so sad. So, we talked a bit about depression. What other mental health situations have you been able to help resolve to the point where they’ve been able to get off all their meds?

[00:45:02] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Well, we can go down the list of the names—bipolar, schizophrenia. They're all basically, as someone like you who’s read the DSM, basically these are all made-up situations for the purpose of being able to find a drug to sell. If someone really wants to get into this, there's a video you can watch called Marketing Madness. If you go to the website, you’ll find this video. It’s maybe 3 or 4 hours long and it rips apart the entire scam of psychiatric medications and the whole scam of psychiatry, it breaks it all down to the point where you appreciate the title, it’s Marketing Madness. They’re marketing insanity and the solution they have for you are these drugs. As the old saying goes, the two worst things you can ever do is number one, kill the patient, and number two, cure them. Because if you cure them, then he’s off your list to sell the drugs to. 

But to answer your question, you know, I don’t like to get into the terminology. The terminology is only good for recognition. Everyone can agree upon a recognition of a set of symptoms perhaps. But one of the major things that I’ve practiced as a clinical ecologist, because I consider a lot of what to do to be clinical ecology, we work with a lot of children with autism. There is a definite set pattern in what happens with autism. It’s very simple. In fact, it’s too simple. It’s so simple that people can’t believe it. But the components of autism start out with a child who’s born, who’s genetically compromised as far as his ability to detoxify. Then you put that child in an environment that’s toxic or you give him silver amalgam fillings in his mouth. Or you vaccinate him with thimerosal. So, you then make this child whose detoxification is compromised toxic. He can’t detoxify. It affects him neurologically.

A lot of these things like thimerosal and the vaccinations, and then if the child is repeatedly put on antibiotics, he develops candida. Now, from candida he develops leaky gut. So, now he’s autoimmune, he’s got candida. Now, the parents are wondering, “Gee, he reacts strange to foods, this child. He’s got this autism, he has this neurological… but he reacts crazy to different foods.” And it’s not all the time. So, now you mix candida in there, which candida is the big wild card, you never know what’s going to happen next. And it’s that the formula for it is that simple. The child develops candida, develops leaky gut, he becomes chemically sensitive. He becomes allergic. And here you have your standard profile of the autistic child. And it can be reversed, and it has been reversed.

I worked for many years with Jenny McCarthy. Jenny McCarthy was a patient of mine for years. As a matter of fact, Jenny McCarthy wrote the liner chronicles on my book The Candida Chronicles. She wrote the back page. We find as we found with many children, you find that they’re either mercury toxic or copper toxic. Because thimerosal, it’s an alloy, it’s a combination of copper, mercury, and zinc. Now, zine is more of a nutritional element, so the body has a better chance of using up the zinc that might be in the metal. But it’s not true of mercury. Mercury has really no biological functions at all. It’s strictly a toxin. Copper can have biological functions. It’s an essential element. But when it rises to high, it becomes just as toxic as any other heavy metal. 

You start with that. It’s right there. You have loads of trouble. But that explains why. See, years ago, this is the thing that only thinking people can arrive at if they sat down and mudded over this a bit. A hundred years ago, the environment, as you were stating earlier in the show, was much cleaner. You didn’t have the environmental challenges that we have nowadays. So, maybe 150 years ago, something like that, children who were born with these problems detoxifying weren’t challenged by their environment. They weren’t vaccinated. They didn’t have amalgam fillings in their mouth. So, their poor detoxification abilities were not being challenged. That's why these new diseases developed. That's a little microcosm of why it happens. That's why we have illnesses now we didn’t have 100 years ago. The environment is more toxic. And instead of coming up with new drugs to cover up the symptoms of these things, what the people should be doing is they should be taking companies like Monsanto to test for developing all these harmful chemicals that really haven’t been tested and their safety has never really been assured or guaranteed, and they throw them on the market and they're all over the place. Anyone who’s done any weed killing with Monsanto products is going to know that by now.

Soldiers, people coming back from Vietnam, I can’t tell you how many vets I’ve had who were exposed to Monsanto’s Agent Orange, who came back with all types of problems with their lungs and their heart. We had to develop an Agent Orange detoxification program for these people so we could detox them from this chemical. When they start to detox from it, it’s amazing the changes they go through. It’s really amazing.

But eventually, they start to feel better and their chemistry is improved. That's the thing. Anybody can feel better. You can shoot up heroin and feel better. The real bottom line is, do you get healthier? Is there scientific evidence in your bloodwork that your chemistries are improving? That's what we look for. That's what should be done. What I’m talking about should be the industry standard. And it’s not.

[00:51:21] Ashley James: There's another thing that Monsanto did, and my friend is involved in a lawsuit. It has completely destroyed her life. It’s left her in a wheelchair and left her daughter incredibly sick as well. This is just a small town outside of Seattle. There was an alternative school called Sky Valley, and there was an old building maybe built in the ‘60s or ’50s or ‘40s, something like that. But it was an older building. Children were dropping dead, children were getting cancer, teachers were getting cancer. One of the teachers entire jawbone just died suddenly. Crazy horrific things happening. In this town 40 minutes away from Seattle, what they come to find is that Monsanto made these chemicals, construction chemicals for the ballast, for the cocking, it’s through the entire building and it’s very hard to clean up. They said that they cleaned it up but the school board did a coverup. Then, they said, “Okay, it’s safe to come back into that school.” It wasn’t safe. Now, there's a huge lawsuit going on, massive lawsuit, and I think the teachers, they have several different lawsuits. The teachers have one lawsuit, the parents have another. And the teachers won. But they settled that at court or something.

Anyways, it’s all messy. It’s been going on for years. But what I discovered, and I’ll find the article and link it in the show notes. The Associated Press did an amazing… it takes like an hour to read this article. It’s so well-researched. They did this amazing expose where they traveled around the United States and discovered that these dangerous older school buildings, very dangerous for the health of the children because it is killing the children, mostly still exists in impoverished areas now. Monroe isn’t impoverished, it just is an outlier, but most of these buildings that are full of these toxic chemicals that are causing horrific neurological damaging cancer to these children, but the children were susceptible because they're smaller I guess, but also the teachers, most of it is in impoverished areas, most of it is areas where there’s larger groups of people of color, and they know that the buildings are toxic but they don’t have the budget to do anything about it. Because they all feel very powerless in this situation, no one is stepping up to fight back. 

So hopefully, with these lawsuits, it’ll be enough to sort of get everything rolling. But here’s the thing. We walk around trusting the building we’re walking into is safe because we live in the United States or we live in Canada or we live in England. You live in a country where you expect that the building you work in, the house you live in, the car you drive, the food you eat, the air you breathe, the water you drink, we expect blindly trusting that this would be safe for us just like the medications we take. We have so much trust. Sometimes I guess we’re very naïve in that. Without living in constant fear because that wouldn’t be healthy either, we need to do our own due diligence. I have a whole episode on toxic construction materials and how to have a nontoxic building versus toxic buildings. It’s all very fascinating. Same with food and how to have healthier food, how to have healthy water. 

But when it comes to when you already have the toxicity in your body and you have these symptoms, you don’t even know. You don’t know that you have high copper. And that could be why you're feeling depressed or feeling off or feeling lethargic or having the brain fog. Then we go to the wrong doctor. They don’t do the test, they just rattle off some symptoms, they put us on whatever drug the drug rep told them is good for those symptoms. And we still have the toxicity. We still have the underlying problem. We get worse and worse and we end up feeling guilty and shame that we’re broken, and a lot of times, not all the time but many times these people feel like they're a burden on their friends and family and the world would be better off without them.

[00:55:54] Dr. Michael Biamonte: And unfortunately, I can never leave a conversation on this subject without mentioning this because it’s something that really, I took very seriously. When President Obama was running for office, his New York campaign summit was right next door to me. We helped them out in the beginning, we offered them, you know, they needed a table, they needed a chair, they needed this and that, we very easily gave it to them. The people there asked me about what we did. I asked them, what is the senator’s viewpoint about Monsanto and about GMO foods. I was told quite overtly that he was intending on outlawing GMO foods and getting rid of Monsanto and blah, blah, blah. This was great. Then several years later, while he was president, he signed the Monsanto Protection Act. The Monsanto Protection Act, if you look it up, limits the liability that Monsanto has. So, when you're talking about these people suing Monsanto, there's only a limited amount that they could get because this act kicks in and it reduces the liability Monsanto has. Monsanto has no liability at all. You can’t sue them and say that any of the GMO foods that they make made you sick. You can’t do that. In terms of all these chemicals, there's limited liability. 

So, when we start looking at who we’re going to vote in office, we also have to really take a look at this. Who’s going to protect people like Monsanto? Who’s going to protect the person on the street that you're talking about? 

[00:57:37] Ashley James: My church has become very politically active, which is unlike a church, right? Lately, churches have been silent. Something my church has brought up is, you know, the churches that were silent in Germany, the Nazis actually went after the churches first. Not everyone knows the history of this. How is it that such a horrific thing could overtake a country? They went after the churches first. They threatened them and kept them silent. You keep your worship inside the church, you don’t do anything outside the church. You don’t do anything active. You just do your little thing inside the church and stay silent. So many churches have stayed silent.

[00:58:20] Dr. Michael Biamonte: There's a formula, do you know that? You can find this. The Nazis, they actually had a formula of what you did to take over a country or to demean the people. That is one of the first things you do, is you go after religion, you silence the churches. The next thing is you take their guns away from them. Then you make them toxic. That was quite common from when the Nazis attacked the country. Prior to their attack, they would dump fluoride in their drinking water. 

[00:58:50] Ashley James: Wow. Which is a neurotoxin, right, in high doses. And it causes people to be docile. I don’t know all the symptoms but I also know that it disrupts thyroid function.

[00:59:05] Dr. Michael Biamonte: You then start starving them of protein because starving them from protein makes them less aggressive. You take protein away from people, they lose muscle tone, their testosterone drops, they become less aggressive, less motivated. So, they had it all down, the Nazis. They had their whole formulation down. And unfortunately, you're seeing a lot of that getting repeated nowadays in trying to control people.

[00:59:32] Ashley James: With our church, our pastor said, “I don’t care what side. Republican or Democrat, I don’t care. I’m voting for the individual person that I believe is going to do the most good that’s going to help the most people, that's going to, for example, outlaw GMOs or not help these big organizations like Monsanto.” Unfortunately, we have to go based on trust because like you said, you were told one thing and then he did another. And protecting these major organizations that are causing and have a history of causing a huge amount of toxic damage to the world, it’s sick and wrong and very sad and I’m not for either side. I’m pragmatic. I want to see a better world.

[01:00:25] Dr. Michael Biamonte: I agree. I’m a libertarian. I’m registered as a libertarian. 

[01:00:31] Ashley James: The idea that what we deserve is we deserve health. It’s a right. I want that for everyone. I want a cleaner, healthier, safer world for everyone. I know you talked about not wanting to necessarily go based on labels because that is the box they like to put people in just to give them drugs. But when it comes to suicidal thoughts and ideation and wanting to help someone to avoid suicide, have you ever had clients who you felt might be suicidal and are there any common things that are associated with that or imbalance is associated with that that you can help them with? 

[01:01:14] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Yeah. One of the first things you’ll find is that they're on an SSRI. So getting them off the SSRI and getting them on 5HTP or any of the precursors to serotonin is very important because you want to make sure they're not suicidal due to extreme dips in their serotonin. Usually, you want to get them out of their environment because unfortunately, people with these conditions are prey for other people around them to crap on essentially. So, getting them out of their environment is just as valid a therapy as anything else. So you get them good nutritional support, you get them out of their environment, get them into some other area where they're dealing with people who are not constantly invalidating them or causing them trouble, you’ll see a tremendous improvement in them and it’ll be safe.

[01:02:07] Ashley James: Dr. Hammer, he did Meta-Medicine. Dr. Hammer saw the centrifugal rings on the brain scans when not using the contrast dye and determine that the edema on the brain was specific areas were associated with specific… he did over 30,000 cases, were always related to specific parts of body. So, breast cancer, that sort of thing. He determined that a trauma would have had to happened in the last four years that would have triggered it. His biggest intervention was to take them out of their environment. So many times he’d see, if he took someone and moved them to a different country, just take them away from the friends or the family or the job or whatever it was that was stressing them out or triggered them that they were able to heal much quicker and in some cases, go into full remission. It’s so interesting.

[01:02:58] Dr. Michael Biamonte: The present time and environment of the patient acts as a constant restimulation to their illness from the time the illness was probably conceived going forward. So, it’s a valid form of therapy to change their environment but to hopefully to a better one. You wouldn’t want to take sick person and put them on the titanic. That wouldn’t be the right idea to change the environment. But that’s the concept. You get them away from the re-stimulators that are occurring in their environment. You get their nutrition improved to the point where they’re at least not going to be eating toxic food or not going to be in a toxic environment and then if lucky enough, if there's a practitioner like myself there, you can test the person and find out that if there are any extreme toxicities, there are tests that are offered by Great Plains Labs. Great Plains Labs offers a test which will check you for mold toxins, will check you for environmental toxins, will check how well you can detoxify. You can also look at neurotransmitter panels and do all these things and you can get a lab done for a person. The person would be in remarkably better shape in just a few months.

[01:04:13] Ashley James: I feel like we have to touch on this subject although it is such a sensitive one. A friend of mine lost her child who was a teenager to suicide less than two years ago. This child who was born a female decided they were not a female and did a transition to appearing as and functioning as a male. We see that the suicide rates for those who feel that they weren’t born the right gender, again, I want to be very sort of sensitive to this subject because the suicide rates are incredibly high and the statistics are that even those who transition, even those who get operations, the suicide rates remain high. Have you had any experience working with those and is there anything that we can do to help them?

[01:05:14] Dr. Michael Biamonte: I have actually more experience than you would think. It’s remarkable that in some of these people that make the transition, some of them are totally fine for their entire lives, they have no problems. Others do have these issues and you would have to then say, well, then obviously this is not the answer. If this was the answer, they wouldn’t still have these compulsions to harm themselves. 

But then on the other hand, I’ve seen that there are some people physically who don’t handle the transition well physically from a biological standpoint and metabolic standpoint. Their bodies just don’t do well at all. They will reject the hormones that they're taking. They can seem to never can find the right balance or dosage of any of the medications. But yet, there are others I’ve seen that did fantastic. So, I think we’re down to this is what the psychiatrists don’t want to hear. But what you're down to is rolling up your sleeves, sitting down with the person and digging in and finding out what’s really going on as opposed to having them come in your office for 10 minutes, hearing their problems and giving them, as you said before, the pill that the drug sells and says it’s the right one for them.

[01:06:32] Ashley James: It takes doing the deep dive because we’re complex. We’re complex. I heard once that the functions with inside a single cell are more complex than the city of Manhattan. So, if you think about if you’ve ever been to New York City and you see just the honking and the noise and the deliveries and the taxis and just everything going on, that is a simpler system than a single cell. We have 37.2 trillion cells in our body, we’re an incredibly complex ecosystem that is affected by energy. The energy of objects nearby, we’re affected by water, we’re affected by the air we breathe. It’s so sensitive. You climb up to Mt. Everest, your muscles will begin to seize, right? We need a perfect homeostasis. When something throws us off, it’s enough to throw everything off-kilter and yet, we think that we can go into an office, spend 10 minutes with someone, take a drug and it’s going to just solve the problem. This is the marketing we’ve been told. It’s ridiculous. We should be and practitioners should be willing to do that deep dive with someone and not be afraid to do the deep dive with them. 

[01:07:46] Dr. Michael Biamonte: To really appreciate what you're saying, I again would have to mention to the listeners to go on the internet and go to and look up I think it’s a 3 or 4-hour video called Marketing Madness. Once you start watching this, you cannot stop. The data they give you is absolutely mind-boggling and they uncover and reveal the entire scam which is the whole psychiatric profession and the psycho pharmaceutical industry. It’s just incredible.

I guess it’s no coincidence the LA Times back in the ‘80s published one of these inserts that you could pull out. It was all about psychiatry. The interesting thing I learned from there just off the bat that I found very curious is that as a whole and a group, psychiatrists have the lowest SAT scores. Psychiatrists have the highest rate of suicides out of any profession. Psychiatrists also have the highest rate of being convicted for felonies out of any profession. 

[01:08:58] Ashley James: Wow.

[01:08:59] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Interesting. 

[01:09:04] Ashley James: And we bring our lives to these people. I don’t think that their entire profession is evil. But we just have to remember that they’re fallible, that we shouldn’t put them on a pedestal like we’ve been taught to do, like the marketing has taught us to worship these drugs and worship these people. Now again, if there's a drug that would stop someone from being suicidal, I’d want them on it, right?

[01:09:34] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Yes, until you figure out as you said earlier.

[01:09:36] Ashley James: Right. If someone has to check them, and I’ve had friends who went, they have five kids, they are like, “I am going to kill myself today and I don’t want to do that,” and they’ve checked themselves into the hospital, they spent two weeks in the hospital, be put on some lithium or something, put on some kind of medication, and then they're like, “Now, I got to get my life in order.” A few of my friends have done it but one friend in particular ended up finding, she found a few support groups, she changed her entire lifestyle, she had to change her diet, she had to do a deep dive into her life. She still has five kids and she has a sixth one on the way and she moved across the country. She’s done a ton of changes. But she changed her diet, she’s seeing a therapist. She’s going to two different support groups. She’s removed a lot of addictive behaviors out of her life. She had to do the work. But sometimes it starts with going “I’m about to break and I really don’t want to leave my children, but it’s like I don’t see an end to this and I’m going to check myself in.” Then you have to do the deep work beyond that. Sometimes it does take that immediate intervention. 

Unfortunately, some people wait till it gets that bad. But hopefully, listening to you, we’re not going to wait to get that bad that we can make diet and lifestyle changes and even contact you. So you work with clients around the world, you do telemedicine.

[01:11:08] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Let me add this. Don’t be complacent about your environment. I’ve had quite a few patients over the years who under my treatment were improving but they then moved. They told me that moving made a bigger difference in their health than actually what I was doing with them. When it was examined, when I looked at that, it’s interesting but there are certain things you’ll find. If someone lives in New Mexico in Nevada, that area, where nuclear testing takes place, traditionally, when we do tissue mineral analysis on people, and the test comes back showing high levels of uranium. Now this is not that they're radioactive, this is inert uranium. The first thing I ask is well, do they live in New Mexico, Nevada, that whole area? Ninety percent of the time, they do. There's a high amount of uranium that's inert, it’s not radioactive, but there's a higher amount of uranium in those areas that people will absorb. Uranium, even though it’s inert and not radioactive still has physiological effects. It affects adversely your digestive system, it affects you neurologically. There's a whole list of uranium toxicity symptoms. 

Also, another patient I’ve had for quite a long time, she had some strange elements showing and had beryllium, which is something you don’t see that often. She had high levels of beryllium and chromium and different elements showing. We never could figure out what it was and one day, she happened to realize that about every six months she would notice that the cars in her neighborhood and the windows of houses in the neighborhood had this white film on them. So, she collected the film and she had it analyzed and she found that this film was high in beryllium and chromium and all these elements that we find in her. So, she then started to investigate and she was very active in her community, she was active politically and the school board and everything. She researched where this was coming and sure enough, there was some industrial complex about six miles from where she lived that was dumping this stuff in the air.

[01:13:39] Ashley James: Oh my gosh.

[01:13:43] Dr. Michael Biamonte: I have dozens of other similar stories. But the moral of all these stories is don’t become too complacent about where you live if you're ill. Investigate if you're ill. If your area has any history of chronic toxicity, if there's anything in the water, if there's anything that’s in the water, eventually it’s going to make its way to the land. If you're doing gardening or you're doing any kind of work like this where you're getting in the dirt, you're going to start absorbing this stuff. It doesn’t have to be in the air although the air is the easiest carrier. But check out your environment to see what’s going on there. Because your environment might be making you sick and you don’t know what your doctor doesn’t know.

[01:14:28] Ashley James: I’m reminded of this. You might have heard this. Let me know if you have. But there were these guys that went to I believe it was Papua New Guinea and they were doing trading. They gave them a bunch of corn and grains that these people had never eaten before. This population didn’t have a history of mental illness but after they gave them, I mean, besides what you get from being a cannibal for those certain areas, but in terms of like bipolar or schizophrenia, they noticed that they were having mental health issues after being exposed to like rice and corn. Same with Hawaii that the ancient Polynesians who had never had grains, they didn’t eat grains, that wasn’t in their diet, they ate tubers and fish and lots of fruit. They were given grains and mental health which had never been recorded in their history was then found. They took these findings and they did an experiment in England with a psychiatric ward primarily that had schizophrenics, they removed grains from their diet and saw that many of the went into remission and had either less or sometimes no schizophrenic episodes just from removing grains from their diet.

[01:15:53] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Yes, these are very, well, at least to me, pretty well-known stories. That especially you’ll read in the books of the doctors who are very anti-gluten or anti-grain. It’s very true. Very true. 

[01:16:06] Ashley James: Do you think that their major component is that it’s not feeding the candida that is having an impact on the brain becomes of the connection, the leaky gut, like you had mentioned before that there was these neurotransmitters in the gut, but also, that there’s a nerve that goes straight from the brain into the gut?

[01:16:29] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Well, that would be presuming that these people had candida which we don’t necessarily know that they did. So, we would have to look at really… the most obvious thing is these people right off the bat, when they’re eating grains, they’re probably blood type O’s. So initially, you're introducing a fluid which probably hasn’t been in their genetic line because these foods are not native to those areas. Once you do that, you don’t really know what’s going to happen because it’s like putting someone on another planet. You don’t know how they’re going to react to the food. You don’t know if the food allergy is going to cause like extreme irritation or break down their intestinal lining, which is leaky gut is then going to… leaky gut is known to cause many psychiatric-like symptoms in people. So, we could stop just there. But when you go further and you look at allergies that you can get from grains, they’ve been well known to affect the brain.

Pfeiffer, again going back to Karl Pfeiffer from the Brain Biocenter, he did quite a lot of work on that, quite a few of the people who I would tend to call the earlier pioneers in nutrition, did a lot of work showing that grains would affect people in this manner. So, like I said, you're introducing something to a line genetically which it’s not native to. These people never had it before. You don’t know how they're going to be affected by it. 

[01:18:04] Ashley James: Right. Is there anything you’d like to say to those who have or are struggling right now with emotional issues, maybe they're on medication or they’ve been considering medication, is there anything you’d like to say to them directly?

[01:18:24] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Yes. As you’ve been hearing through this broadcast, going on these medications is haphazardous and dangerous. That's not your first choice. Regardless of how society looks at these things, how they're accepted, when you really get into the scientific aspect of it, it’s not condoned. You really want to take a look at the things we’ve talked about here today. This is where you want to go first before you start taking medicines which the fact the insurance company pays for them and the fact that they're advertised on TV doesn’t mean they're safe, it doesn’t mean they're good. We can start advertising heroine on TV and have your insurance company pay for it. That doesn’t mean it’s good for you either.

So, I would say to them, please look into the things we talked about today. Make that your priority because a pill doesn’t fix your life. If you have a problem in your life, handle your life, don’t take a pill and go hide in the closet. 

[01:19:32] Ashley James: There's one thing we didn’t touch on and I want to make sure we touch on it, and that's those with panic attacks and anxiety. Oftentimes they feel like they're dying. I’ve worked with several clients who they have to go lie down and their heart is pounding, their palms are sweating, they feel like they're dying and they're terrified that they're dying and so they end up popping a pill. Can you speak to those who have anxiety and are choosing to be on anxiety meds because they feel like otherwise they die?

[01:20:00] Dr. Michael Biamonte: Well, the first thing you always do is go to your doctor and you want to see if there's a tumor, benign or otherwise on your pituitary gland or on your adrenal glands. You want to have your adrenal hormones tested. Not a blood test in the morning where it’s one take. You want to do several blood work over the period of 24 hours or you want to do a 24-hour urine test which is going to measure your adrenal hormones to see if there's any surge in the hormones. You want to look to see how your magnesium levels are. Most importantly, you want to look for toxic metals. Because metals like cadmium, lead, arsenic, nickel, and iron, when any of these are in excess, they stimulate areas of the brain particularly the amygdala of the brain which when you overstimulate that area, you end up having the panic attack-like symptoms. 

You want to look for physical causes. Just simple being medicated is not handling your problem. As you would assume, if there's an underlying problem there and you're not addressing it, well that underlying problem you're not addressing today, in 20 years from now, can multiply exponentially to give you all types of other problems. 

[01:21:18] Ashley James: It’s reassuring to know that there's a path that with working with someone who does functional medicine like yourself, that you work like an engineer and you go through and do a deep dive and help that person become balanced again in their body. Now, they still have to do the work in their life. There's emotional and mental work to do, and you're going to make sure that you help them with the balancing of their body so that they no longer have this. We have to really listen to the symptoms of the body as the language of the body, the body is speaking to us if we have depression. We have problems sleeping, if we have outburst of anger or panic attacks. We need to take these symptoms seriously and go, okay, we’ve got to go through and is there something in my life externally, is there something in my self-talk internally, is there something in my biochemistry that's going on or physiologically what’s going in. We got to do a deep dive. It takes the right practitioner. Like I love saying, you don’t take your car to an electrician. You don’t take your car to a plumber. You want to take your body to the right practitioner for the certain condition.

So, I love medical doctors for emergency medicine. If I have a broken arm or if I have certain types of infections, if I need emergency surgery, that's when I want allopathic medicine. But when I have a chronic situation, I want to go see someone who does a deep dive into functional medicine. That's why I love the work that you do and I think you're an amazing practitioner and I’m so excited that I’ve been able to share you with my listeners because I know you help so many people. So, thank you so much for coming on the show, Dr. Biamonte. Of course, listeners can go to your website, Is there anything you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview?

[01:23:09] Dr. Michael Biamonte: No, I think that's it. But I do agree with you. If I break my arm, I’m not going to run in the house and start eating yogurt and think something is going to happen miraculously. You want to go to somebody who’s going to be able to address the problem correctly. There's so much on TV, people are so brainwashed by these companies, so, it makes it more difficult. But I completely agree with you. Your summation is people, they have to hold that to their hearts and their minds.

[01:23:40] Ashley James: Absolutely. Well, thank you again for coming on the show and talking about this very much needed conversation. I really appreciate the work you do and please come back anytime to continue to teach us. I love learning from you.

[01:23:56] Dr. Michael Biamonte: You're more than welcome and I certainly intend on doing so.

[01:23:59] Ashley James: Wasn’t that a fantastic interview with Dr. Michael Biamonte? I hope you enjoyed today’s episode and I hope it really helps you to gain clarity and direction on mental and emotional health. There are so many resources out there and I’ve seen so many people heal anxiety, depression, and bringing themselves back into balance. Even bipolar, I’ve seen people to bring back into balance where they feel even-kill again. 

Use the search function on my website. I do have a lot of other episodes about these especially anxiety. Please go to and just use the search function, type in anxiety, see all the episodes that come up. Lot of episodes, lot of great information, lot of great resources and tools. This is just the beginning. It’s just pulling you down the rabbit hole through the matrix, out of the matrix, down the rabbit hole. Then, I want to just arm you with all the resources and all the tools that’ll help. Make sure that you go to, get my Free Doctor course from holistic doctors who look to give you the foundations of health and then make sure you go to and get the free sample class from the Institute for Integrative Nutrition as well. I’m just showering you with gifts today. Make sure you get those. Of course, join the Facebook group, the Learn True Health Facebook group because so many resources, so many people are there to support you. It’d be great to have you be part of the community and join us there. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about. Have a wonderful rest of your holiday season! I have a few other amazing episodes to post before we get to 500, so you still have some time, but if you have any testimonial to share at all, big or small, please send it to me. You can give me an audio, you can give me a video or you could just type it out. You can send it to or you can also message me on Facebook or put it in the Facebook group, would love to see you there.

Get Connected with Dr. Michael Biamonte!







Book by Dr. Michael Biamonte

The Candida Chronicles

Dec 9, 2022

Ozone Machine:


Listen to episode 484 for more info on why and how to use ozonated water made in your home for energy and mitochondrial function:



High-Quality NAD Brain Supplement:

Use coupon code LTH at


Listen to episode 460 about the benefits of high-quality NAD on cellular function, energy production, and mitochondrial health:



Sunlighten Sauna - the sauna Ashley uses, loves, and recommends:

Be sure to ask for the listener special!


Listen to episode 245 to learn from the founder of Sunlighten Sauna as to why this sauna is the best tool for your health journey:



The world's most effective Magnesium Soak:

Use coupon code LTH at


Listen to episode 294 to hear Kristen Bowen share her story of recovery and discovering the world's most absorbable form of magnesium:



Ashley's Favorite Spirulina and Chlorella:

Use coupon code LTH at


Listen to episode 487 and hear the latest science behind healing algie



Dr. Oz's book, After Covid: Optimize Your Health in a Changing World

"Our clinic is on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. We provide detailed lab work, IV therapy, peptide therapy, and nutritional protocols, including supplements."


493: How To Recover From Long Covid, Dr. Oz Garcia

When you experience long-haul COVID, it's important to be proactive in recovery, and it's also helpful to know how to plan for this kind of huge transition. In this episode, Dr. Oz Garcia talks exactly about that, which involves reducing toxins in your life, boosting nutrient density (as well as nutrient diversity), improving sleep quality, enhancing focus and concentration, and getting into the best shape of your life.

Ashley James and Dr. Oz Garcia


  • The novelty of the COVID virus
  • How Dr. Oz Garcia became his own patient zero
  • Supplements Dr. Garcia recommends
  • Oura Ring
  • Tracking heart rate variability
  • How long-haul COVID damages mitochondria and healing from it
  • NormaTec compression boots


Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. Boy, are you in for such a treat. We have an amazing guest on the show today, Dr. Oz Garcia, who used to be a marathon runner, incredibly healthy his entire life. He’s a holistic doctor, works in New York State, and he has a great clinic. I believe it’s in New York City where he does functional medicine and believes in nutraceuticals and really healthy eating. And he got hit with COVID, he almost died. And he tells a story of recovery of experiencing first-hand the worst of long-haul COVID, the long-haul symptoms that have lasted him months, that left him crawling on the floor only months before he was running marathons. This is something now we’re discovering so many people have to a certain extent. I myself have been healing from long-haul COVID. And we’re seeing it is a different animal, it’s a different creature that we’re facing similar to Epstein-Barr virus or mono. The body has been affected on multiple levels. Some have seen even the brain shrink. There’s been studies showing that the brain shrinkage is almost like brain damage and recovering from that, healing from that. Healing is possible. We need to recognize that the body has an innate God-given ability to heal itself. It’s this amazing, beautiful machine.

We are so intricate that cellular biologists say when they look at the cell, they still don’t fully understand the cell, but when you look at just one cell, now you are comprised of over 37.2 trillion cells in your body and yet, one single cell is more complex than everything going on in New York City. It is so complex. It is so beautiful, the dance that happens in your body. And we can heal ourselves. Now, modern medicine really has us duped. It says we have to wait to get sick, go to the doctor, get put on some drugs to force the body to do something and then there's all these spill-over side effects. And they don’t really focus on healing and completely restoring the body from any kind of chronic illness. That's not their wheelhouse and that's frankly not where their money is made. That's why you are listening to this podcast because we’re holistic, meaning we look to the whole body and the whole life of that person knowing that your mental, emotional, spiritual and physical health all affect each other, knowing that what you ate affects you. Even what you ate yesterday is affecting you now, of course it does. What you eat, how you sleep, even when you eat, how much you eat, whether it was organic or not, all of that plays into the cell’s health, how much joy you experience, how much support, connection and love you have in your life, whether you feel like you have a purpose in your life. All these things matter.

So, wonderful episode today because Dr. Oz Garcia goes into his journey where he was left for the first time in his life needing to rebuild his health. And he’s 70, I think he’s 71 now but, you know, at 70-71, he looks amazing by the way because he’s taken such great care of himself all his life, but here he is rebuilding his life, just learning how to walk again, let alone run a marathon again. So he shares what he did throughout his journey in the last year to recover his health and, of course, then go on to help his patients do the same. He does mention some things that I want to make sure you know about. We talk about ozone. I have a fantastic episode. These are resources for you if you have long-haul, if you're looking to heal, especially mitochondrial issues. We see that a lot of people after COVID experience. It’s almost like their mitochondria has been damaged. And this also can happen when people take antibiotics and take other drugs. Those other drugs that disrupt the mitochondria. Mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. It is the part of your body throughout all your body that makes cellular energy ATP. The majority of our mitochondria, although it’s in all our cells is in the nervous system, in the brain. We really need mitochondria to function to have these other cells function. It is what makes the energy for our body. So whatever damages mitochondria damages the body and leaves us exhausted. So, we want to do everything we can to support the body in having healthy mitochondrial function and the entire Krebs cycle, everything that has to do with making energy for the body is really important. We need to get the good stuff in, get the bad stuff out and get out of the way. Let the body do what it needs to do, support the body in doing it, what it needs to do.

So, there's a fantastic ozone machine that you can get at home. Quite affordable. I thought ozone machines were thousands of dollars and they’ve really come down in price and it’s a little machine, smaller than a shoebox and it will make ozonated water and it’s safe to make in the home. Other machines are not safe. You had to leave the room because it’s not safe to inhale ozone. But this one degases it so it only goes into the water. And I have a whole episode on that. It’s episode 484. The links to everything I’m talking about now is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at or in the notes, wherever you're listening from. If you're listening from iTunes or Spotify, you're going to just go into the notes there in this episode and you’ll see it. So, check that one out. Of course, everything that I share, for the most part, I get a coupon code from these people, Learn True Health, the LTH coupon code. So always type in LTH and just see if they give us a discount because for the most part, I do get a discount for you guys. 

So, the ozone machine, you can just go straight if you want to check it out. It’s That's That's the ozonated water that you can make in your home. You can use it as a very safe disinfectant and you can also drink it and it only disrupts or kills the bad bacteria that is talked about in episode 484, but also, ozone hyperoxygenates the body and the cells in the body and it also has been known to help the mitochondria function better. And I had a personal experience with ozone that rocked my world. It took away the muscle weakness that I was experiencing post COVID and I thought that was really amazing.

The next one is NAD. You can go to, just the letter N, A and D. Listen to episode 460. We talk about NAD and how it helps energy production, cellular function, and especially mitochondrial health. It’s a really interesting interview. Today, that's one of the things that Dr. Oz Garcia talks about, ozone and NAD for his health journey. So go to and use coupon code LTH as well.

Sunlighten Sauna, we do talk about sauna therapy using heat and light therapy. Amazing. I love Sunglighten Sauna. It is part of my detox routine. It has been part of my detox routine for 4 years now. It has really helped me recover from heavy metal toxicity and also, it’s fantastic for the cardiovascular system, for the immune system. The benefits go on and on. There are so many studies about sauna therapy. What I like about Sunlighten Sauna, it’s actually low heat. You can get started sweating at about 130 degrees, so it’s very easy to breathe in there. You're not really feeling overly hot. It just feels nice and warm like a day at the beach and yet you're doing your best detoxing at that temperature and it also helps with the immune system hugely. We talk a bit about that in this interview that you're about to hear. You can go back and listen to episode 245 to hear the founder of Sunlighten Sauna and some of the benefits as to why Sunlighten is better than the other sauna companies out there because I did do my research when I was choosing my saunsa, and I am so glad that I chose Sunlighten over the other ones because it’s full spectrum, it’s ultra low EMF and nontoxic. 

And of course, if you decide you want to buy a Sunlighten Sauna, you can go to and there's a list of the benefits and the machines and all that. But if you end up calling them, make sure you mention that you heard it from my podcast because listeners get a huge discount. This month and the month of December, there’s an even bigger sale going on right now. I believe it’s up to $700 off plus free shipping, and they usually throw in a few other goodies. So, just say that I sent you and that you better get a good deal because I said, you know, and of course, you can always message me and let me know, or come join the Learn True Health Facebook group and let me know because I’ve had nothing but good experiences from them and I personally am friends with one of the managers there, so if you ever need any help with that, you just let me know. I’ll make sure you get the hookup.

Then, of course, my favorite magnesium soak. Go to episode 294 to hear Kristen Bowen’s story where she was having 30 seizures a day, unable to talk in a wheelchair. Her life had totally disintegrated after a surgery where they put some stuff in her that they said she wouldn’t be allergic to, and of course, now we know so much more but it caused her to become so unhealthy, she was on death store, eventually got surgeons to finally agree to take this stuff out of her, but there she was, she was left still very weak, very sick and she stumbled upon this particular type of magnesium from the Zechstein sea that allowed her… it was the biggest tool she used to recover her health and so she dedicated her life to making this I don’t want to say little anymore because her company has grown so much since I started talking about it. But it’s a family-run company and it’s very high quality. She has incredibly high standards like I do when it comes to what you put in your body. So you can go to, use coupon code LTH, get the magnesium soak. And my favorite thing to do is soak my feet in magnesium while in the sauna. Bada bing bada boom, you got 2 for 1. It’s great. We have several more episodes on the magnesium soak. The first one is 294 so you can go back and listen to that one. Make sure you use coupon code LTH anytime that you're at because she does give the listeners a great discount.

Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing these episodes with those you care about. My mission is to help as many people as possible to no longer suffer. The needless suffering needs to stop. Man, I can tell you that long-haul COVID is no joke. It is suffering and it’s psychologically suffering as well because so many doctors, they don’t know what to do. They throw their hands up, they say maybe it’s all in your head. You don’t really feel like you're being taken seriously and a lot of them just don’t have the tools. They don’t have the tools because they don’t have the training and some of them have the hubris because, I don’t know, there's ego or they feel threatened because they don’t know the answer. They end up making us feel like it’s our fault. It’s so frustrating. But really, there's a whole world of holistic medicine and it’s completely separate from the mainstream medical system. And the mainstream medical system doesn’t want to acknowledge that there's all these amazing things that we can be doing outside of drugs and surgery. If you're suffering or you have a friend who’s suffering, please get them to listen to these episodes, tell them that there's hope. Tell them the body can heal itself. The body is amazing at healing itself. I was sick with so many different conditions. I had polycystic ovarian syndrome, I no longer have it. And I was told by so many doctors that you can’t get rid of it, you have it for the rest of your life. I had type 2 diabetes. I was told that that’s just it. You just have to be on these drugs for the rest of your life. I said no, I took the natural medicine route, I no longer have type 2 diabetes. That was actually the easiest thing to reverse out of all the issues I ever had. And I had it for years. I had out of control blood sugar for years. I had infertility. I was told I’d never have kids. And we have an amazing son. So, you can’t put these doctors on a pedestal and accept their truth as your truth. You need to fight for what you want in your life and if you want really good health, stop believing the limitations that other people put on you. Their belief system is their own and I believe you have an amazing ability to heal yourself, your body wants to heal itself.

As one of my mentors once told me, your body has this blueprint of perfect health and healing. It’s somewhere deep inside you in the higher self, in your soul. But it is in there. You have inside you this blueprint of perfect health and healing. If you’re spiritual, then God has that instilled in you and your body wants to come back to that. Homeostasis is the body always trying to get back to that perfect point of balance. What throws the body off balance can be stress. It can be emotional, physical, mental stress – physical stress being drugs, alcohol, the over 80,000 manmade chemicals in our air, food, water, soil. Right? There are so many factors now that are putting stressors on the body and so, with one thing at a time, with one episode at a time, with one meal at a time, with one day at a time, you can make these beautiful little changes to supporting your body’s ability to heal itself. That's what I want you to focus on. Don’t focus on what the doctor told you that you're going to be sick the rest of your life. Or you have this because your parents had it or you had this because you're old or you have this because you're a man or a woman, or whatever. Whatever excuse they said. You have this issue because… That’s their belief system. You don’t need to buy into their belief system. If you want perfect health and healing, then that's what we’re going to focus on. Because your body can heal. Just like you got a paper cut, you get a little cut, you don’t even think about it. The body just does the healing for you, right?

Now, if you have a lack of nutrients in your body, it takes longer to do wound healing. I have some clients who got their nutrition totally under control, got rid of all their nutrient deficiencies. Their body was super nutrified and then they went in for some kind of surgery and the doctors couldn’t believe how fast they healed. They were amazed. They had to take stitches out weeks before. I had a friend heal a bone faster than was expected. I’ve had clients that the incisions heal incredibly fast. I even had a friend who’s a fellow coach who was working with a client who had a stage IV bed sore and the doctors were like this person is going to die from this, there’s nothing we can do. The bed sores were all the way from the skin into the bone. We changed his diet. Diet. That’s all we could do because they were in a hospital but we changed his diet. And I said okay, here’s the foods I know that are super healing, here’s the foods that I know are super nutrifying, and here’s a list of the foods that are definitely going to hinder his wound healing. Guess what? He was able to get out of that hospital completely having healed that stage IV bed sore. 

And the doctors, within days of changing his diet, the doctors were like, “Hey, something’s working.” We’re like, yeah, we stopped feeding him the hospital food and started bringing in our own. There are foods that help the body heal. Everything you put into your body matters. Right? And that's why I love the magnesium soak because it absorbs straight into your body, bypasses the digestive system, straight into your lymph system. I love the NAD supplements. I really feel a difference when I take it. Especially the ozone therapy is amazing.

ENERGYbits is one I haven’t mentioned here but you can go to and use coupon code LTH. Like yesterday for breakfast, I just had chlorella and spirulina. ENERGYbits to me tastes delicious. Other companies’ chlorella and spirulina, I don’t like. The ENERGYbits are so clean and so pure. It’s pure amino acids. The body just immediately absorbs the nutrients and the vitamins from the ENERGYbits and I feel so good. All I did was eat 30 of these little pellets of chlorella and 30 little pellets of spirulina. That’s all I had for breakfast yesterday and I was full until about 1 PM. How cool is that? I fully nutrified my body with it. So, it’s a food. It’s little capsules you chew, not capsules, it’s like little pressed tablets that you chew. We call them green crackers in our home because our son loves them. But they're actually not a supplement; they're a crop. They're a crop the sun dehydrated and for ease of use pressed into these little things that you can chew. So, I love the ENERGYbits. Of course, you can go back. You can use the search function on my website, search ENERGYbits and find the interview, several of them with Catherine Arnston where we go through the science and the studies. It’s the most studied food in the world. There's over 100,000 studies between chlorella and spirulina. It’s the safest food in the world to eat. It’s the most studied food in the world. And it’s actually the most nutritious food in the world.

My most recent episode with Catherine Arnston, episode 487, is fantastic to listen to. She goes through, even though like I said I’ve had her on the show several times, that one is fantastic. We go through the latest science of chlorella and spirulina and how it actually acts as an antimicrobial in the body and it helps to establish a better microbiome. It is so cool, the science. If you geek out like me on the science of holistic medicine, you're going to love that episode.

So without further ado, I’ll let you get to this episode with Dr. Garcia. I know you're going to love it. I just really felt like I had to do you a service by making sure that you knew that there's all these resources. When you come to listen to this episode, I want to arm you with all these other things that you can do and now you have a bunch of things to listen to after you listen to this one. I’ve given you a list of other ones to go through. Of course, like I said, it’s in the notes of this episode. So, go through all those episodes when you’ve done this one and know that your body will heal itself. Sometimes it’s as simple as little bit of changes in lifestyle, going to bed at a different time, making sure and walking in sunlight in the morning, especially drinking enough water, drinking lemon water in the morning. These changes seem almost because they're so simple, they seem like “Oh that's too simple. My symptoms are so great. These are such small changes. How can they possibly help?” I think that some people go, “Yeah, yeah, yeah. Drink lemon water in the morning, whatever. That just doesn’t sound like it could help me.” First of all, huge benefits from hydrating the body, and then the lemon water, once it gets inside your cells, it actually acts as an antioxidant. Even though it’s acidic in your stomach, it’s actually alkaline once it’s absorbed up inside your body. So, yes, simple cheap things that you can do, like drinking a lot of lemon water in the morning, going for walks first thing in the morning, making sure you get to bed at 10:00 PM, that actually makes a huge difference. Making this shift in your diet. I have so many episodes on the wonderful healing benefits of eating organic and removing gluten grains, removing oil from your diet and increasing antioxidants with all kinds of wonderful, colorful vegetables and berries, mushrooms, onions. You can listen to my episode with Dr. Joel Fuhrman, like a nutritarian diet. Doing these changes, within 24 hours, there’s a shift in your body. Even just one meal. Eating a nutritarian meal actually is seen. You can see it in bloodwork. It begins to affect you right away. Don’t discredit diet changes, little tiny changes. Don’t discredit them. They are the key to your better health. I’m so excited for you on this healing journey because no matter where you are, if you're suffering like I did, please know that you don’t have to suffer. It is optional. And we’re going to help you to get to a point where you’re no longer suffering. I believe in your body’s ability to heal itself. 

Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day, and enjoy today’s episode. 

[00:21:06] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 493.

I am so excited for today’s interview. We have an amazing guest, Dr. Oz Garcia, on the show today who specializes in helping people to heal and overcome from long-haul syndrome. We’re seeing the masses having huge issues recovering even months later after having COVID. And you’ve written an amazing book called After COVID. It’s on Amazon. Of course, the links to everything that Dr. Garcia does is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at

As the pandemic began in 2020, when did you start to see people suffering from long-haul syndrome? Much like mono where even a year later, people are just exhausted, mentally exhausted. They’ve got brain fog; it’s affecting people mentally and emotionally. Some people even have digestive problems months and months later. When did you start to see it as a problem?

[00:22:11] Dr. Oz Garcia: Great question, Ashley. I would say the summer of 2020 already, even though that was the beginning, in many ways of the pandemic, that March is when it really took off. But people were already being deeply affected. They have been exposed to the virus. Months later, I started to read about people that have gotten it right at the beginning and by August-September, I was reading about people that were somewhat incapacitated. In other words, they got sick. They had gone through all that was available to actually get through the illness itself yet there was the post-illness hangover, so to say, and information was already coming out at that point and I thought to myself, this is really peculiar. Kind of like what you said about mono and Epstein-Barr where you took a bad hit but it would debilitate you for indefinite periods of time and for the effects of COVID, nobody knew what this was, why were people still experiencing symptoms three months, four months, six months later. And now we know that people are experiencing it one year, two years, going into three years for some people.

[00:23:42] Ashley James: This is very scary because a lot of doctors are ignoring it. A lot of doctors don’t know what to do. They are sending people, just go to a counselor, maybe this is just a mental or emotional issue. But they don’t have this toolset and the drug companies haven’t developed a drug yet, so they're just like, “Well, just wait and be sick until we figure out a drug we can give you.” 

But really, none of those things are the answer. Is this similar to other viruses that cause a syndrome? Is this similar? Or are you seeing it that it’s even worse? Is it different?

[00:24:19] Dr. Oz Garcia: The nature of this virus is its novelty in terms of what’s happening that is completely radically different than anything that’s come before it. So, when people get exposed to it, they could get a kind of like COVID which is in something that I would say is all that good. We don’t know if you get exposed to COVID one, two, or three times with a new variant that there may not be long-term repercussions even though the hit may be initially somewhat light. Now, we know that because of the novelty of this particular virus, in fact, it mutates—in fact, it mutates so rapidly. The fact that there are many points along the protein spikes on the virus itself that can cause depending on the person, depending on their current state of health, depending on preexisting conditions, genetics, whether you're going to go down or not and whether you're going to go down really bad, and whether you're going to have a good recovery or not, and you're going to find yourself with post COVID or long-haul syndrome.

So, doctors are not all that well-equipped to actually deal with this problem because we’ve never seen it before. So, if you do go to a doctor, they’re going to look at you as they did with me when I was first diagnosed with long-haul as a mystery, what do I do about my lungs that were ravaged by COVID pneumonia. What do I do about these joint aches that were back breaking? What do I do about the severe exhaustion and apathy that had me sleeping up to 18 hours a day? What do I do about my moods? The fact that there was this no sense of happiness whatsoever, just morose, blue, anxious. And then the terrible problems with insomnia.

So, I had the full package. Everything that anybody could have had post COVID, I had. I went from weighing about 140 pounds to about 100, maybe 99, 98 pounds by the time I got home from the hospital. So, I was a walking wreckage. Like that, there are people in the millions that got this virus. It’s kind of like termites in a house. They come in, they do the damage that they do. You get the exterminator, they put the canvas over your house, they come in and they spread the house and fumigate it, kill all the termites, take the tent down, but you wouldn’t dare go into the house afterwards. God only knows what condition the floor is in, the staircase. So, kind of like that. COVID does tremendous biological infrastructural damage for many people. Certainly those that are long-haulers and symptomology that's unexpected.

So, you can’t reduce it to a pill, a solution. There are too many moving parts when you’re talking about long-haul COVID or post-COVID syndrome. Some people can’t recover their smell for a while or their taste for a while or they’ve got chronic headaches. It may be just something like that. It can be just deep disturbances with your sleep. So, you can have mild long-term symptomology which is also nerve-wracking or the full package in the way that I had it where when I was speaking to some doctors that are dear friends of mine, some of the most brilliant cardiologists, pulmonologists and so on that couldn’t come up with any way to explain what was going on and any way to explain what would be the best path out or best paths out. 

So, doctors themselves are baffled. There are doctors themselves that have wound up with long COVID, and they're suffering and they understand that this isn’t a mental problem. That there are severe problems with your body that they can’t put a finger on. There are programs at different institutions at Cornell Weill, at Mount Sinai, programs for long-haulers I think at NYU also. I find that the counsel and advice that’s being given by the faculty of doctors in these different institutions leaves a lot to be desired.

[00:29:01] Ashley James: What did you do? So you were patient zero for yourself. Or patient one. You were like ground zero. You're treating yourself first and having to figure out what is going on. Then also, you were seeing amazing experts and they were all scratching their heads too. So you had to really build your protocol from the ground up.

[00:29:20] Dr. Oz Garcia: Let’s backtrack a little bit. I’ve been in my field for about 40 years. I’ve been a long-distance runner. I’ve been a marathoner. I’ve been an ultramarathoner. And I’ve been accustomed to having great control over my body. Certainly when it came to my breathing capacity, the fact that I could in the weeks before I got COVID get up, do 150 push-ups, work out in the ways that I was accustomed to working out and generally feel really well to getting home several weeks after being hospitalized with COVID where I tried to do one push-up and fell and banged my head and just made things worse. Being accustomed to having been a runner and having full lung capacity to where now I was attached to an oxygen compressor 24 hours a day for about two months, this was mentally debilitating and when I would talk to the doctors that had treated me in the hospital, you could almost feel them shrugging their shoulders over the phone. They didn’t know what to say. Bit by bit, they disconnected from being in communication with me.

So yeah, I had to be my own patient zero, so to say. The fact that I knew so much about caring for my body in terms of nutrition, in terms of mindfulness practices, the supplements that I used, the way that I would work out, the fitness protocols, the use of contrast between extreme heat and extreme cold, whether it was sauna and cold plunges. All of these plus a multitude of other practices, protocols, and products that I never thought about, I had to think about. Now, I knew that if I wanted to get my breathing back into control, that I had to rely on myself. And what was out there that was available to actually rehabilitate lungs that have been ravaged by viral pneumonia, by COVID pneumonia, whereas the doctors couldn’t tell me what to do really. 

I kind of literally, in my bed, laid out a spreadsheet. Okay, so my mood sucked. What do I do about that? My anxiety is through the roof. I don’t have energy. I need to crawl to the bathroom. My breathing is suffering tremendously. My lungs have sustained a certain amount of damage. My appearance, at 98 pounds, I looked like I had survived coming out of Somalia. I could count the bones on my chest. My face is completely sunken in. So, what could I do to rebuild my muscle mass? What could I do to gain my weight back? So, this became an inquiry in terms of all my prior knowledge and could I bring it to bear so that I could save my life.

[00:32:28] Ashley James: How long did it take you before you started to start feeling better again?

[00:32:33] Dr. Oz Garcia: I would say it was a good 8 months. Good 8 months. So, the first several months was falling into routines that I would follow every day religiously and repeat them every single day over and over and over. Then, what I would do is add another routine. It’s kind of like becoming a juggler. You start out by juggling two balls and then at a certain point, you find that you can keep on pulling up in the air and add a third one. Then all of a sudden, I was juggling three balls. Then bit by bit, as I had my confidence increased, I could add a fourth and a fifth and so on.

So, it was a lengthy process and it’s still going on. I’m still rebuilding my body almost few years later. But I’m far and away from where I was when I couldn’t stand up hardly. Like I said, I had to crawl to just about any part of my apartment. My breathing was terribly labored. By following the counsel I’d say of thinkers that were better than I am, certainly in how to do things incrementally like James Clear, and James’ book, Atomic Habits. So by listening to Atomic Habits, again, while I was in the hospital, audiobooks, and then kind of listening to it again when I was home, I knew that I could do a little tiny bit every day. If I could do 0.25% percent better than I did the day before and keep building up so that it was a percentage increase in a week, then 0.50%, then could I do 1% better today than I did yesterday? With my breathing exercises, my ability to do some kind of strengthening exercises, crafting my eating so that it was to make me gain back muscle mass, and then by category, all the different things that I knew I needed to do, within a matter of several months, I was off the breathing device that I had at home. Then beyond that, I saw that my appearance is improving. That encouraged me tremendously.

I lost a lot of my hair as you saw before. I now have a full head of hair. But it was coming out in patches. Same thing. You all of a sudden go from thinking of yourself in a certain way in the world, you take great pride in terms of your upkeep, your appearance, and here I was I looked completely unrecognizable to myself.

There were other problems also that arise in the hospital. I developed clots in my body. Now, this is an effect of the virus itself. So there were medications that I was put on to actually break the clots up. They did save my life. Once I got out of the hospital, I found alternative protocols, alternative treatments to actually break clots up because the medications themselves that I was taking were producing terrible side effects.

So, bit by bit, I found the appropriate parallel protocol for just about everything that I was suffering from and how could I continue to expand on that. Okay, so if I use certain kinds of nutrients to improve on my sleep, then could I eliminate what they gave me in the hospital? Could I eliminate my insomnia? By category, same thing there, I worked up a complete protocol for supplementation. That is, the vitamins, the minerals, the amino acids, the essential fatty acids, the peptides, the nootropics, the herbal products. All the products that I felt besides the basics, things like vitamin D and probiotics, but much more I would say precise use of certain nutrients that could build my brain back, that could build my energy back, that could put me into very deep sleep for hours at a time, that could help me recover my energy from the damage that was done to my muscles, the mitochondria, the engines within the cells of my body. Bit by bit, I started to feel that I was going to actually get my life back. But it was bit by bit. It was a James Clear inspired process to getting my life back.

[00:37:26] Ashley James: At what point did you start to share this with patients or clients or people you’re working with? At what point did you start to then help others?

[00:37:35] Dr. Oz Garcia: I would say it took me months. Probably I got sick at the end of the January of 2021 and by October-November 2021, I was back to journaling, writing essays, posting on media, and it occurred to me that I wanted to write a book about my experience and put in that book what it was that I did to save my ass, so to say. The book itself winds up being in two parts. It’s a history of the events that many people go through when they wind up with severe COVID, my own personal experience. Then the second part, Ashley, is pretty much a workbook like these are the things that I did for sleep, these are the things that I did to improve my appetite. These are things that I did to get my muscle mass back up. These are things that I did to improve my brain, my memory (short-term and long-term). And these are things and these are the products that I used to improve my focus, my recall. These are the things that I used to get my motivation back on track.

So I had to earn it all back. I’d say a lot of it was the discipline prior to COVID. I had to draw on that and use certain thinkers that, again, I would listen to, to get the inspiration, to motivate myself when there was no motivation at all. There was nothing in my body that I would say felt like you got to get up, you got to do breathing exercises. None of that. I had to literally use my brain power to move me through just about every exercise, every practice, every protocol to get back to where I thought I should be. And that, like I said before, was incremental over a matter of many, many months. But I’d say by October-November, I was healthy enough, fit enough that I could start writing out everything about my misadventure and how to get your life back at least from my perspective from long-haul COVID. 

[00:40:04] Ashley James: I definitely want to get into things that you felt were really impactful. But I’d like to know, have you ever had chronic illness in your past or is this the first time you’ve really suffered?

[00:40:18] Dr. Oz Garcia: I’ve been fortunate in that I’ve never ever experienced anything of this magnitude at all. Nothing that I could recall. Nothing that prevented me from being able to get out of my bed. Literally, Ashley, I couldn’t lift my arms at a certain point. The fact that there was no muscle there to lift it, it should tell you something in that regard. So no, I was completely unprepared for this.

[00:40:52] Ashley James: Now you're in your 70’s and we got to see each other, I got to see you on video and you look incredibly handsome and you don’t look anywhere, I mean, if someone said you're in your 50’s, I’d be like, “Okay,” Like you are very handsome. When I say handsome, I mean very healthy. You look very healthy. So, I know that the work that you’ve done, like you said, you’ve built all these habits, all these routines to getting yourself back and you still are getting yourself back. But I just think about the amount of empathy now you have for those who are in chronically ill states and especially those who are also going through long-haul like you have so much empathy now having been incredibly healthy before, having not really ever experienced chronic illness and you were a marathon runner, your peak performance, top health, and then it was all taken away from you, just very quickly taken away from you and now you're building your body back from being emaciated. So your compassion and your drive, even though you didn’t have any because I know when you have long-haul syndrome, you don’t have motivation. There's no motivation. Like you had to really pull up some motivation that wasn’t even there from like you said mental willpower. I like that you turned back to Atomic Habits. What a great audiobook. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to that with my husband. We really got a lot out of it. I couldn’t believe when I saw an Audible that it was a 5-star and it had so many ratings. I’m like, what has 5 stars? And now, that has 5 stars. That's a great one to tell everyone to listen to.

The fact that you suffered so greatly and you have come so far and you can turn around and then help those who are also suffering. That’s why I know that your book is going to be so helpful for so many people, the book After COVID. I’m so happy that you're here today sharing so that we can help those no longer suffer.

[00:43:00] Dr. Oz Garcia: It’s true. Also, being in the hospital, being told that I may never be able to work out again, run again, may as well forget, I was literally told that many of the things that I had in my life, I think I had my iPhone me, I was just constantly doing Google searches on what was known at that time. But I came very close to dying in the hospital. As my weight kept dropping rapidly, as I would go in and out of conscience often during the day, the fact that there was no real understanding about the value of sleep, so you would be woken up several times a night. I know this is well-intended to take your blood pressure, make sure that your oxygen saturation was what it should be, draw your blood, but I went through three weeks where I essentially would sleep totally maybe 2, 3, 4 hours maximum per night. You got to know at that point, Ashley, there were no hospital rooms available. They are all taken. So we were being wielded into a converted storage room. So, no windows, temperature control didn’t exist. The rooms would either get too hot, too cold, extremely humid. And that would add to the terror that you were going through emotionally, right? Again, we’re talking about a pandemic. Nobody was prepared. Nobody understood how bad this was and how bad it was about to get still. And how to make sure that you could be as comfortable as possible. The medical system was horrifically overwhelmed. While I was in there, I would say that there was a revolution within my value system. So, all the things that I thought were meaningful before, bit by bit as I went through my recovery, started to lose meaning. How important was it to accumulate great wealth, how important was it to accumulate notoriety, being well known, how important was it to have substantial material goods, how important was it to fly off to exotic destinations and think that this was what was important in life.

So, that whole system kind of collapsed and it was, I’d say, one of the gifts out of all of this and I got to be careful because I wish I could have come to these points of view, the ones that I hold now, in terms of yes, having greater empathy, greater compassion, intense gratitude, humility, the value systems that when you stack them all together allow you to have a sense of integrity and a sense of self that wasn’t there before. And I thought that it was there before. I thought that was I pursuing authenticity and sincerity, but at the same time, you wind up in a hedonic treadmill where if you live in New York City, or any big city in America, you’re driven to achieve and achieve to the point where your value systems do get bent out of shape and corrupted. And you can’t see it when you're in it. It’s kind of like a fish in the water. You're just operating that way. What’s everybody in New York up to? Looking good, scoring big, making sure that you're recognized for being somewhat special. All the things that you can’t really say in totality add up to being a happy human being. Whatever they add up to, the whole notion of what it means to be happy wasn’t on my mind. It was kind of like okay, this is what you do and this is what your work is producing for you.

I think these days, my concern is certainly for people around me, and the kind of value system that does allow me to be a lot more forgiving for how I was and where things go wrong these days. Just forgiving overall. And we know through neuroscience that to the extent that you practice gratitude, you can get a gratitude journal, you can get a gratitude app. You can get a 5-minute journal app, download it, and do five minutes of gratitude every morning, five minutes of gratitude before you go to bed every night. And we know that after a month to three, it has a profound effect on your thinking. How it is that you view the world, how you view yourself and how you view people around you. So, all of those things took on greater meaning for me and continue to grow, expand, push out as more time has elapsed, Ashley, since I became sick and I started to look at the world this way.

[00:48:40] Ashley James: So, you're sharing with us things that you got out of it. It’s like taking a very horrible and tragic experience and you're starting to find the growth there.

[00:48:52] Dr. Oz Garcia: That's correct. But like I pointed out before, did I have to go that far down to come this far in terms of how I now live my life and the way that we’re shaping our practice, our office, and my interactions with most people. So, maybe in my case that’s what it took and thank God I survived. There were plenty of people that I knew that didn’t survive, that didn’t make it. I shared a room with one gentleman who passed away the second week that I was in the hospital and another room with another gentleman that passed away.

So, I remember, I do recall many people kind of telling me, “Well, what lessons did you learn out of this?” Frankly, I don’t think I learned anything. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy. It’s not an experience that people need to go through. Now, I think because of my character, I kind of got enough out of this experience that I knew that since I lived and I made it through, that I didn’t want to embody the values that I had before. They somehow seemed meaningless to me. Like the texture of rice paper, like looking good, does that really matter? Or does like you mentioned before, being empathetic and compassionate, does that matter? And should I put my attention there?

In totality, you find that you're accumulating greater amounts of peace of mind whereas I don’t think I had all that much before. I was just driven.

[00:50:43] Ashley James: Wow, it really did completely reset your whole life and you've built yourself back up and then you turned around and you want to help others. I love the work that you're doing because we can end the suffering of so many. There's people out there who went through what you went through. 

[00:51:05] Dr. Oz Garcia: Very true. Well, to give you a quick example, let’s talk about breathing for a minute. So, with my COVID, I had a severe pneumonia. When I was in the hospital and I was CAT scanned, they told me that I had about half of my lungs filled with, to quote the doctor, millions of micro clots. And I had one substantial clot headed for my heart. So, I couldn’t breathe. They wanted to put me on a mechanical ventilator, I refused. Statistically, many of us already know that if you go on a mechanical ventilator, your chances, at least back then, were 2 out of 10 that you’d come back. The other 8 just wouldn’t survive the experience of a mechanical ventilator. They put this tube down your throat into your lungs, you're sedated, you could be sedated for a day, a week, a month, and the mechanical ventilator breathes for you. Now, I knew based on the stats that I just told you and what I reckon, that this would be highly destructive. I took my chances. So consequentially, I was put on what’s called a high-flow cannula. That's kind of like a little breathing device that's attached to this machine that would push 65 liters of oxygen into my nose per minute at 100% oxygen. I went with that and thank God that I survived to be here and tell you the story.

Now, when I got home, I couldn’t breathe without still using auxiliary oxygen, and bit by bit, I started to investigate different devices to help me breathe better. Now, one of the things that they give you in the hospital, they gave me what’s called a spirometer and it’s kind of like a little plastic device that you blow into and then you suck the air in, you suck and you breathe in and you make a little ball go up. To the extent that you breathe better, you can make the little ball go up further and further. And I thought to myself, is this going to really save my life when I get home. You can get it on Amazon for $8. With the severe pneumonia that I had, how do I get back to breathing the way that it did before?

A dear friend of mine who’s a very well-known athlete turned me onto a particular breathing device that you get with an app and started using it. It was like sitting still in a chair using the breathing device, this actually gave me a workout. I could only start at the beginning by doing 1 minute at the beginner level which would knock me out. I’d have to go lie down in my bed. I could hardly make the needle move on the breathing device. My ability to hold oxygen, breathe out and breathe in, you got a measure of all those three metrics, was horrific. Over months doing it every day, sometimes twice a day and working it was the way that I got to breathe again in the way that I do now so that I can go walk, I can go walk for 2 to 3 hours several times a week and bit by bit will consider if I want to run. There were reasons why I’m not running yet. But I can work out the way that I worked out before and go to the gym, do my upper body workouts. And this is what’s missing in the conversation with many specialists that are trying to teach long haulers how to recover their breathing capacity. If you can’t recover your breathing capacity, fully oxygenate yourself, it’s going to be difficult to actually get many other aspects of your health post COVID working as well as you want to.

I was listening to NPR radio a few days ago. On NPR, they were interviewing a gentleman who’s had long COVID now for almost two years and he was talking about how he uses the spirometer still every day and I thought to myself, “oh my God.” Two years later into his suffering still having great difficulty getting up, can only work a couple of hours per week, and doesn’t know that there may be other ways of strengthening his lung capacity, expanding his lungs, getting more oxygen throughout his body and to his brain. So there isn’t a single morning that I don’t do about 40 minutes worth of breathing exercises. That's part of the morning routine. And I can run up the four flights of stairs in my building. Whereas when I first got home, it could take me about half an hour to get up the first 2 flights. 

[00:56:33] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. Do you not have an elevator?

[00:56:35] Dr. Oz Garcia: Well, I live in a beautiful townhouse. That was very difficult. 

[00:56:40] Ashley James: Got it. So half an hour to crawl up two flights of stairs in your townhome whereas now you can run up and down the stairs. 

[00:56:48] Dr. Oz Garcia: That's correct.

[00:56:49] Ashley James: Nice. 

[00:56:51] Dr. Oz Garcia: Also too, as I rehabilitated my breathing, so did my energy start to come back. Instead of having to be in bed at 3:00, I could enjoy normal life. 6:00, 8:00. I remember the first time that I made it till 9:00 PM and I was in sheer ecstasy. It was like yes, you know, everything that you’ve done, you didn’t need to get in bed and crawl and do a 2 to 3-hour nap. You're getting better.

[00:57:18] Ashley James: I love it. I want those who are suffering to see the light at the end of the tunnel and I think your story is sharing that and showing that there’s definitely light at the end of the tunnel for them.

[00:57:32] Dr. Oz Garcia: That's correct.

[00:57:32] Ashley James: So, breathing exercise is important. Of course, you outlined this in greater detail in your book. Are there supplements or like IV protocols or like ozone IV? What else is there that helped you with your lungs beyond daily breathing exercises?

[00:57:48] Dr. Oz Garcia: We have a clinic and we do have an IV clinic. So, there were two bags of IVs that I would do per week. At the beginning of the week, I would have my clinician come over and I would do a bag with a multitude of minerals, vitamins, antioxidants, amino acids. These would have a tremendous impact on how I felt. The second IV was using a very unique and novel form of vitamin B3 called NAD+. NAD is a nutrient that has a massive impact on life extension. So, it will do a great deal of repair within our own DNA sequences so that you produce less mutations as you get older. Now, NAD, we know gets depleted as a consequence of COVID. Certainly, severe COVID. Those particular IVs with extremely high amounts of vitamin C, glutathione, N-acetylcysteine, acetylcarnitine, licorice, all of these were compounded for me, B complex, minerals, amino acids. That was critical to getting me back to normal. Then the second IV which was the NAD one.

So, those are still very important. I do maybe twice a month now instead of twice a week. They’re not something that most people can find unless they go out and search for a good functional MD so that they have access to the intravenous treatment protocols that I believe had a measurable impact to my recovery. Now, separate from that, there were all the supplements that I would use. There were supplements that helped you sleep better. Gaba, magnesium threonate, L-Serine. There’s a plant called Zembrin which is now part of a product that you can get that actually calms your mind and you sleep better. The different forms of plants that I like, herbal products, holy basil. That has a remarkable effect too. So, I would stack these – Ashwaganda, gaba, vitamin B6, 5HTP. Kind of like a little hand grenade in my hand of all these nutrients that would allow me to go into a really good deep sleep. These are laid out in the workbook part of After COVID. They work very well for me and I continue to use them and I sleep a good 8 to 9 hours most days, I make a point of that.

Sleep winds up being a superpower for recovery. If you're not sleeping well and you're trying to get better, just about everything else is going to kind of break down. Your diet, your exercise, getting out and getting sun every day, trying to meditate. Your anxiety won’t alleviate unless you're getting adequate sleep on a regular basis.

I use a tool called an Oura Ring. Now the Oura Ring just like certain kinds of Fitbits, but I would say with much better accuracy, measures a great deal of your activity during the daytime if you want to, certainly when you go to sleep at night. So, by using the Oura Ring and looking at my app in the morning, I could tell how much sleep I got, my body temperature during the night, how many times I woke up, how long was I in deep sleep which allows your immune system to recover, your brain to detox, how long was in REM sleep (that’s where you're doing a lot of dreaming and a lot of memory consolidation is occurring), how much light sleep. And so, I could see my improvement over many months and now, I get almost a perfect score every night.

There's also a measure called heart rate variability (HRV) which you want to make sure is in the high levels. Your HRV can be measured while you're sleeping. HRV levels tend to drop when you're really ill, when you're stressed out. I would say a good HRV is about 40+. My HRV when I got out of the hospital was about 8, 9, 10. I knew that I was in jeopardy at that time.

[01:02:46] Ashley James: Wow. I love the idea of doing the tracking with, like you said, the Fitbit or Apple Watch or Oura Ring and being able to attract heart rate variability is so key. I’ve actually had a few episodes where clinicians have shared about it. We’ve had naturopaths share about it and nutritionists share about it, that they see it’s how we can measure the body’s base stress levels or like you can measure base metabolic rate. You can measure what your body is doing, just the burning calories, and we can understand the metabolism. But now we can look at it and see like how many RPMs are we revving. Are we like always revving at 1200 RPMs or are we revving at 9000 RPMs, is our body revving at high stress. Because I once had a client, she’d do all of my homework except she wouldn’t do any of the homework I gave her to lower stress or to manage stress. I brought it up after a few weeks of noticing. She’d do everything else. She would eat healthy, she’d track what she ate, but she refused to do any of the things that brought more happiness and less stress into her life.

So I approached it with her and she goes, “Well, I don’t feel stress. I don’t need to do this because I don’t feel stress.” I’m like, “Oh, stress isn’t an emotion.” But especially, coming from the perspective of a woman, I just see a lot of moms do this where they ignore stress levels because it’s not an emotion, so it’s not right in our forefront. But we’ll push ourselves and push ourselves. I even had a nutritionist on the show who she pushed herself to the point where she fainted. Her body was so stressed out physically and emotionally that her body said “I’m done.” The circuit breaker blew and she just fainted. That's when she had to go “Okay,” and doctors were like “Yeah, your blood pressure is through the roof, your heart rate is through the roof like everything is through the roof.” She had to dial it back. She ended up quitting her career and going and starting a whole new career and because she had to, like you did, reevaluate her values and realize that she was digging herself an early grave with her stress. Stress is not an emotion. We cannot feel when we’re not stressed. If you actually feel yourself stressed out, you are revving at the top. You’re at like 12,000 RPMs revving at the top. Maybe your heart is beating out of your chest.

But that’s why it’s sort of like they say blood pressure is the silent killer. Having high blood pressure, you don’t feel it. And if you feel it, you're really in danger. 

[01:05:06] Dr. Oz Garcia: That's correct.

[01:05:07] Ashley James: Heart rate variability allows us to see where is our baseline stress level because if we can lower it, if we can do things like get to bed on time, not eat sugar, and alcohol increases the stress levels in the body, and you can track it. You can track your heart rate variability. 

[01:05:22] Dr. Oz Garcia: Oh yeah, you’ll see on the occasions where I’ve had even a couple of glasses of wine, after having a good run for several weeks with elevated HRV, I can see my HRV plummet just from a few glasses of wine at nighttime and waking up and going, “Damn it.” You kick yourself and you realize that yes, in terms of long-haul COVID, it may not be so smart. But even if you don’t have it, overall, it does seem to affect how long you may live, chips away at your DNA’s desire to stick around longer.

[01:06:02] Ashley James: And that's so important. Everything we’re doing now will affect us in our later years. I’ve watched several family members who didn’t take care of themselves really suffer in the last 10 year of their life. I really don’t want to spend the last 10 years of my life suffering and being a burden on my family. It’s just not fun for anyone. We’re dragging everyone down. First of all, a lot of people are ignorant. I should say they're naïve. Where people are naïve, they’re buying into the marketing, the food marketing. They go through the drive-thru’s and they don’t take care of themselves. They don’t take care of themselves emotionally, they don’t take care of themselves physically and they're just going with the flow. And they’ll end up like a statistic. Like the heart disease and cancer, the leading causes of death. It’s so unfortunate that the people die much younger in America than they do in other countries.

If you want to be a statistic, first of all, go Google the statistics, go look at them and then keep doing what everyone else is doing. But my listeners don’t do that. My listeners are here learning from you because they want to be 90 years old, hiking at 90, and they don’t want to be a burden on their loved ones. And they want to enjoy the last few decades of their life want to be filled with joy.

[01:07:14] Dr. Oz Garcia: That's correct.

[01:07:15] Ashley James: The choices we make now, like you said, drinking alcohol, let’s say, and not getting to sleep on time every night, staying up late every night, that eats away at our DNA. The eats away at our body. 

Dr. Alan Christianson was on the show a few months ago and he quoted this massive study where they found the single most important factor in all-cause mortality was stress levels. Smoking was the second. So, it’s like quitting smoking is less important than making sure you go to sleep on time and manage your stress. So, the idea of getting serious and, you know what, I’ll make sure my husband doesn’t hear this because I’ll tell you what I got him. I got him a Fitbit for Christmas. We were looking at the Apple Watch and all that stuff. But there was all these fees attached to it. So, I got him the best Fitbit and I’m so excited for him to start tracking because now, he’s becoming more aware and he wants to take even better care of himself. We talked about how you can track sleep and stuff like that. So, I’m getting him a Fitbit and he notices how great he feels when he starts doing all the things I tell him to do.  

[01:08:26] Dr. Oz Garcia: Wonderful. It turns out to be a game. I mean, you start playing a game with yourself where the feedback itself, the numbers that you get kind of entice you to want to get a better score the next day. Like, how do I get my 90 again? How do I get my HRV over 45? So, it’s almost a game that I play with myself. It’s the first thing that I do in the morning. Open up my Oura app and look at my scores, and it’s like “Yes!” There's the Garmin, there’s Whoop, there’s Fitbit, there's Oura. So anything that turns you on that will allow you to measure what’s going on with your body and most importantly with your sleep, that becomes a critical aspect certainly for most people. Long-haulers I think need that kind of information so that they can autocorrect. But just about anybody that wants to get better control of their bodies, they need to quantify certain kinds of data. I would say central to all the spokes, is your sleep. Many times, when I’ve got clients that come in and they want to know, “Well, how am I going to eat? When are you going to put me on an eating program?” it’s like, well, how’s your sleep? Horrible. Really. Okay, so I’ll start by cleaning up their sleeping practices and then, we’re going to talk about something else. How’s your level of fitness? Do you meditate? Are you a mindful human being? Let’s get all the basics in order then let’s talk about food so that you get maximum value out of what you eat and it’s not such a struggle. It’s just not a struggle.

What you're finding is, it’s all something to contemplate over because you're well-rested, you’re in better moods. You can think about what’s going to empower you and give you energy at the beginning of the day. Should I have a smoothie? What kind of smoothie? Do I put fruits in it or not? Should I throw in some MCT oil, half an avocado? Okay, do I have lunch? Do I skip lunch? Do I have a high-protein lunch? Or is today vegetarian day? Should I skip dinner? Should I do intermittent fasting? What’s the latest that I should eat? 

So, it isn’t about being an overthinker; it’s about being a mindful, thoughtful individual about what you're doing with your body. What you’re putting in it, what you're doing to it, how you're resting it, what information you're exposing it to. It used to be that I would get up and years ago, first thing I’d do, I’d get out of bed and put on Morning Joe in the background. I can’t believe that that would be how I would start my morning. I would be stretching, do an exercise. And the TV would be on in the background listening to politics. I’d prepare my tea and just as unaware of how this was warping my thinking. And now, when I get up, I don’t even have a TV set anymore. I had two TV sets in my old apartment. Since COVID, I just don’t watch TV. If I want to watch a movie, I’ve got my iPad and I’ll go on to that, if I want to watch a documentary. 

So, it’s a very different experience to not have a TV set on. And I’ll put on Alexa and ask it to play some great jazz in the morning. So I’m good to bed and enter my morning with music. Which is one of the more remarkable ways for any of us to enter our mornings. Not blasting a TV set or listening to news first thing out of bed and wondering why the rest of your day, you’re on edge.

[01:12:33] Ashley James: I love that. Setting up an atmosphere. I heard there’s a whole thing around sleep hygiene like creating an environment to go to sleep to but I never thought of creating a hygiene of an environment to wake up to, to set the tone of the day to, to help the body and the stress hormones to ease into the day in a more motivated way than have my feet hit the floor and it’s like go, go, go, race, race, race and all the stimulation. You're rising, you’ve created an environment for healing going to bed at night but also waking up in the morning and considering that your mental and emotional state affect your physical stress levels, it’s important to nurture ourselves mentally and emotionally because that takes care of our body as well. 

[01:13:25] Dr. Oz Garcia: Very much. Morning rituals I think are critical for everyone. For me, to know that I had a routine that I could follow at my worst that I had no idea that anything I was doing was going to work. So whether it was through my breathing, having my weird concoctions in the morning, making sure that I got body work 3-4 times a week, I had no idea of this was going to give me my life back. Because I was reading the news just like everybody else. This is what happens with long-haul COVID. My blood tests indicated that there were blowouts within my immune system that if I was to believe what I read on Google didn’t bode well for me. 

So, I kind of stopped even doing that. I just started to do everything that I believed would get me back and that also started to nurture my mindset. So, it became a very flexible mindset and allowed me to look at things that were way out of what people would consider healing practices or could possibly have an effect on long-haul COVID. Then, reel it all the way back in and go, okay, so these are the protocols that I find make a difference for me. This is what got my fill-in-the-blank back to acceptable levels. And a lot of that occurred within the first 3-4 hours of waking up. So, I get up relatively early and I like to go to bed early, read before I go to bed for a while, maybe watch a little bit of a movie or documentary and then, all lights out by between 9 and 10 PM. 

Then, it’s up early between 5 and 6 AM. I’ve got plenty of time before work to do my morning routines, my morning rituals, and that includes doing meditative practices. I may do 10 minutes of meditation, 20 minutes. And I love to use the Sam Harris app which is called Waking Up. That's a world of information. Different teachers that are presenting multiple portholes into how to meditate, different kinds of meditative practices. There's a lot of theory that you can listen to. Recently, I listened to an interview with Laurie Santos who is a professor at psychology at Yale. Now, her course is called Well-being and Happiness. It’s the number one attended course in Yale. One in 4 studies in Yale attend it. So, I listened to the interview on Sam Harris and I thought this is unlike I’ve ever heard before on the subject matter of happiness. Went on to Coursera, signed up for a course and completed it and have a very different understanding of what it is that produces happiness. Like I thought I knew what it was before. But there are nuances, there are subtleties. That, by the way, I would say, Ashley, added much to my evolving perspective, what I knew wasn’t producing happiness. All right, so what does produce it? And this is like kind of the other side of it. So, these are the things that you should be looking at that will produce happiness. This is what happiness may or may not be. You may have had preconceptions about the subject matter, we’re going to kind of blow them up here. So, I’ve incorporated much of that simply because I’m listening to a meditation app every morning for 10 minutes. 

[01:17:16] Ashley James: And that definitely reflects your value shift. Our values, it’s our unconscious motivators. A lot of people don’t know. Like we know what a value means and we don’t understand how it affects our behavior. So at an unconscious level, it dictates our behavior. If you want to know what you value, so I have a master practitioner and trainer of neurolinguistic programming and there's a very simple thing you can do. Get a pad of paper and a pen and either you can do it yourself or you can ask someone else to do it. Sometimes it’s nicer if someone else is writing down what you say because you can just kind of go unconscious and say whatever. And you pick something. For example, my career. So you write down “my career”, these are the values that you're going to list about your career and you say what’s important to me about. But for this podcast, let’s say health. My body’s health. So what’s important to you about health? And you can even do what’s important to me about my life. Right? Then you just start writing down. So you say, what’s important to me about my health? That I have energy, I feel great in the morning, that I feel strong, that I’m able to run up a flight of stairs. You do sometimes say things in the negative that I’m not tired, that I’m not winded. So whatever you say, write it down. It doesn’t matter whether you say it in the positive or negative, you write it down. Then, you get about between 5 and 8 things out, and your mind goes blank. That’s the unconscious mind bringing it to the conscious, so you wait 15 seconds, 30 seconds, ask yourself again, what’s important to me about my health? Then new stuff will come to mind. You do this, you kind of rinse and repeat 3 or 4 times, you get a list. You can get a list of up to 40 things. It doesn’t have to be that long, you can just do 20 things. Then, you look at the list and then you number them. What is the most important thing about my life or my health? What’s the most important thing? Then you go down the list and you number them, and then you look at, oh very interesting, it will give you insight what is an away from, so what is a negative, like I don’t want to feel fat or I don’t want to look too skinny. When you say “I don’t” and it’s away from and you say a negative, you really want to highlight that or put like a little red line or under it, and then everything that’s stated in the positive, that's good. 

The values that have a negative associated to it have a negative belief system. That actually will drag us down and it will negatively impact our behaviors and our behaviors are what get our results in life, right? If your behavior is sitting on the couch and doing nothing, that’s getting your result. Doing nothing is a behavior also. Choosing not to do anything is a behavior. When people are negatively motivated, they’re the ones who join the gym in January but don’t go by February. Right? They’re the ones who you’ll get short-term gains but then you’ll give up. You want to examine and look at how many negative belief systems you carry that are attached to your negative values. This is a great self-exploration or you can find an NLP practitioner to work with to kind of go through and explore this, but even just like writing down and looking at your values and listing your values and looking at your values and going, this is all the results I get, all my behavior both conscious and unconscious in my life, the things I’m doing right now and the results I’m getting right now, this is what is motivating me to do or not do those things. Then looking at what is actually important. Because if you're not pursuing the things that are important to you, you might have a negative belief system holding you back.

Someone might be listening to you going, “Oh, but I couldn’t afford to do IV. I’m not even going to try. I’m not even going to start. I don’t have money so I can’t do it.” They cut themselves off from any further action because there's a negative belief around money or around time. What you're saying is you don’t need to be a millionaire with free time to get your health back. These are the things you did and even someone who like is on a pension or on disability, there are so many things they can do. There are so many free apps they can do. Maybe they can find a used on eBay, find an old used Oura ring or something. There's ways. But if you believe you can’t, you will stop seeing possibilities. 

[01:21:44] Dr. Oz Garcia: No question about it. 

[01:21:45] Ashley James: I want people who are suffering to see like if they have the brain fog and they're like “I don’t know if I can even do this,” but you could do breathing for one minute, you could start for one minute a day, or you could start to write down one thing you're grateful for and then the next day write two things you're grateful for. Like gratitude journaling, even if it’s just three things a morning, writing three things down, start somewhere because doing something is going in the right direction. As opposed to saying “Well, I can’t because I don’t have the time or I don’t have money.” Then boom, they’ve just cut themselves off from this world of possibilities whereas you built your health up so much so you went from crawling up to two flights of stairs in half an hour to being able to run up and down flights of stairs. And that's what I want for everyone who’s suffering. It does take that mindset.

[01:22:36] Dr. Oz Garcia: It does. 

[01:22:40] Ashley James: So knowing what motivates you and shifting your values but also understanding that you might have a belief system that is preventing you from even taking action and saying you know what, I’m not going to let this old negative belief that I created dictate my life anymore because what I want now is to be like Dr. Oz Garcia. I want to be healthy, I want to be building my body again, I want to overcome. And so it does take that. I too lang had long-haul COVID but my experience was really unique in that April of 2021, I was giving birth and my daughter died right at the end of labor. Her head was halfway out and she passed away and we don’t know why. We have no idea why. Of course, with the grief, my blood pressure was through the roof, paramedics were there for an hour and everything. It was incredibly traumatic losing her and right after that. I think I had a visitor, one of my friends came to visit within a few days and she didn’t know him and his son had COVID. You don’t know. Who knows? I just had that feeling like I couldn’t breathe almost like an asthma attack. Couldn’t breathe. My oxygen was low, I felt like I was passing out. I couldn’t stand, I couldn’t walk. At this time during COVID, I didn’t know how much of this is my tremendous amount of grief that I’m going through, how much of it is recovering from birth because my body is still recovering from birth and then how much of it is grief, how much of it was birth, how much is COVID, and then afterwards, again, I didn’t notice how much of my recovery because at that time also we found that we had to move. So, we’re packing. So now, I’m recovering from pregnancy, like having grief and trauma and now, post COVID, and not really knowing which is which. It’s all just a package of weirdness. And what a stress. What a stress from not knowing where we’re going to live.

One of my really close family members went into hospice care and we’re taking care of them. So it was just one thing after another. But what I realized is my brain was Swiss cheese. Doing interviews was really difficult. I was still very dedicated to the podcast but I went from… at the start of the podcast, I could do three episodes a week, three interviews a week and I could barely do one a month at the time. I just felt like my brain was Swiss cheese. I would be reaching for nouns or reaching for names and I couldn’t access it. I always thought maybe this is the trauma brain but this could be COVID brain. I also had a huge amount of muscle weakness. I could barely walk up the stairs. It wasn’t really winded like my lungs. I just could barely carry anything, could barely lift my arms. My legs were incredibly weak. I had to hold on to railings and go one step at a time, one leg at a time going up each stair. That was in April.

Then in December of last year, I decided to go for IV ozone, doing an ozone 10-pass.

[01:25:55] Dr. Oz Garcia: Remarkable, 10-pass is terrific. I did many of them as part of my recovery. It’s good for you.

[01:26:02] Ashley James: It was like night and day and I sat there with this wonderful naturopath and she did the 10-pass with me. It took about three hours. We talked the whole time, it was great. Then, so I pick up orders from Azure Standard. It’s like buying in bulk and I had these 25-pound bags of lentils and brown rice and whatever that I had bought. Her clinic is also a pick-up location for Azure. My order had arrived and I’m like, okay, just give me a sec. And I ran down, there's this long cement staircase all the way down to my car, and I ran down it and I opened up the trunk of the car and got it ready, and then I ran back up taking like not doing one step at a time, like jumping up each step, grabbed two bags, so carrying 50 pounds now, ran back down the stairs and I had maybe 4 or 5 bags. Normally, my husband would be the one carrying the bags. I was crying by the end of it, like tears of joy. I’m like, my muscle weakness was gone. I was like, this ozone 10-pass is amazing and so I thought, man, I didn’t realize that my muscle weakness was from the damages of mitochondrial damage from long-haul.

[01:27:21] Dr. Oz Garcia: Tremendous. Long-haul does create mitochondrial damage. Mitochondria, for those that don’t know, are the engines within all our cells. Each cell that we have, each neuron that we have has hundreds, if not thousands, of these little engines and their job is primarily to produce energy by burning off sugar, fat, and protein to the extent that that may be a fuel like ketones, for instance. So, when you get COVID and any number of other illnesses for some people, I would say Lyme disease, chronic Lyme’s, I would say long-haul in many ways is very similar to having chronic Lyme. The ability of your mitochondria to perform is corrupted. They don’t burn off fuel like they're supposed to. They're not burning fat like they're supposed to. They're not burning sugar like they're supposed to. Energy is not being produced adequately. So, there is severe fatigue. For some people, it’s similar to having fibromyalgia. Just this exhaustion where you can’t lift your shoulders, your back, your legs hurt. And you were extremely fortunate. I’d say that some people have genetic capacity kind of like what you’re describing to rise above the damage that you sustain, the damage that you're living through and recover. I would say you’re describing the capacity to be antifragile. Which is very different than what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Who knows if that’s true or not? But certainly, as you go through very demanding events and you look back and you reflect on how you made it through, it does point towards your ability to, well, be anti-fragile. You just don’t come apart that easily. And that’s what I’m hearing through everything that you're telling me. 

Certainly, having that you know you’re anti-fragile in retrospect. You did it, you did this that all this went wrong and this particular event and the pregnancy and on top of it, COVID. Who knows what else? And when you look back, yes, there's trauma that builds up and sometimes you can even overcome that. It doesn’t leave you in a chronic state of PTSD where you’re incapacitated. You can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. You’re just like, “life’s too hard.” There are plenty of people with events in the way that they occurred to you that they just kind of toss in the towel. There's no further capacity, there's no resilience left. It’s kind of like, that's it.

[01:30:33] Ashley James: In your discoveries, have you uncovered what helps people who are sort of in that level of despair to be able to rise above and start to feel like there's hope?

[01:30:46] Dr. Oz Garcia: This all goes the way almost to the beginning of our conversation, Ashley. Doing one little thing every day instead of filling up a whole list of to-do’s, this is everything I need to accomplish today, and doing that day in and day out and day in and day out and finding that you hardly make a dent. But if you can pick maybe 1 or 2 things when you’re in the pits of despair and whatever it may be so that you're moving towards pulling yourself out of this tailspin where you're not clear about why did I get hurt in this manner, why am I suffering so much, whatever—whatever you're asking why over, that you can project that and go, “this is what I can do today, I think I can do this.” As time goes by, you can reflect on the totality of many of the things that you live through, accomplish, and just like you, you're well aware that “oh, I can actually get motivated, I can actually get things done.”

[01:32:02] Ashley James: Beyond doing like ozone IV which is amazing, what other things have you found help people to heal their mitochondria from long-haul?

[01:32:14] Dr. Oz Garcia: I meditate a lot. Not only do I do Sam Harris’ Waking Up but I also use a device called Muse. There’s one called Muse S. It looks like a headband. It’s a neurofeedback device in many ways besides being a meditative device. But it trains you to quiet the voice in your head. It trains it be calmer. I’m on my third Muse device now in I don’t know how many years, and that I like because it helps you work through much of what’s destabilizing you. By doing 10 minutes of that or an hour of that, I don’t know, 3-4 times a week works really well. 

I use a device called Plato and it’s a biohacking/neurohacking device that you place on your device, it has certain electrodes on it. Actually, you can set it on your app to calm you down, help you sleep better, increase focus, prepare for a workout, run better and so on. It does it by, I want to be careful, stimulating parts of your brain but optimizing how certain parts of your brain work in the areas of your concern. So like that, I’ve got, I don’t know, two dozen different devices that I work through during a day or a week or a month, each one designed to actually improve different areas of my health and well-being. 

I’ve got the NormaTec compression boots. Now, for many people that have suffered from severe blood pressure problems, heart problems, POTS as a result of long-hauling, the problems that they suffer with blood pressure shooting up and shooting down, you can stabilize by using the NormaTec compression boots. Not only that, but you can do a 10-minute session with NormaTec, I don’t know, 3-4 days a week. I keep it right next to my chair in my office and I’ll be talking to you and I can have them on. And it improves circulation both in and out of your heart. Tremendous improvement in circulation. 

We now know for instance that even doing hot baths on a regular basis 3-4 times a week improves circulation tremendously to the extent that you can do it 4-5 times a week, it reduces your risk of a heart attack by 28 to 38 percent, if I’m not mistaken. It’s almost a 30 to 40 percent win by just soaking in a hot bath. I add Epsom salts and stand there for 5-10 minutes then get out. Relax, breathe a little bit. And you wake up feeling better the next day but you also did something really good for your body.

So, in totality, there are tools, like I said, practices, the extreme hot bath, saunas which we know for many people, infrared saunas, 15 minutes or regular stone sauna. A cool sauna. You don’t have to go in at 180 to 200 degrees. But you can go in for 150 degrees and go in for 15 minutes and build up your time over the course of many weeks and months. But saunas seem to have a profound effect also on life extension, mood, anxiety, depression, heart health. So, there are what are called heat stress proteins that are activated in your favor whenever you expose yourself to extreme heat. The same thing could be said for extreme cold. When you do an ice bath, when you do a session of cryotherapy, that that stimulates, again, activates cold stress proteins and it stresses your body just enough, what’s called hormesis, the kind of stress that actually repairs your body. If you're dealing with a lot of stress in your life, you want to look at every instrument that I’m talking about in terms of what can you do—what can you do Monday, what can you do Tuesday, what can you do Wednesday, what can you do Thursday. And in totality, when you look back over a month, you realize that you’ve done so many good things for yourself that are contributing to the stability of your body.

You had mentioned earlier living longer and living longer better. What I would say about living longer better is you want to live better with a minimum amount of infirmities. You dodge a heart attack, heart disease, adult-onset diabetes, dementia, hopefully crippling diseases of the joints or arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis and so on. And really, because of all the things that we’re talking about, many of the things that I appropriated from life extension I use to actually heal me from long-haul COVID. And like you did when you did the 10-pass, these are things that will reduce your risk of dying young from the wrong things.

So I think infirmity control is critical in terms of all that you and I are talking about. Is what I am eating today going to reduce my risk of infirmities down the road? Is the fact that I only did 10 minutes of exercise today going to reduce my risk of having infirmities down the road? The answer is yes. Yes. And so on and so forth. Is the fact that I’m being very cautious with eating processed foods something that will reduce my risk of gaining too much weight, being obese and building up plaque in my heart? And on and on and on.

Curiosity is a very powerful practice and tool for people that don’t have motivation. If you're not motivated, then can you rely on your curiosity? And if not, you just kind of fade away. You miss out on this gift which is existence. The brief time that we have here, can you make it worth it?

[01:38:47] Ashley James: I love that you pointed that out because if you don’t have motivation because long-haul does suck the motivation out of you, but having innate curiosity and that's I guess probably why I’m good at podcasting. I’m so dang curious, I spent many years suffering. In my 20’s I suffered hugely from chronic illness and I overcame them. Even though MDs told me I never could. I was told by an endocrinologist after a battery of tests I’d never conceive. And we have a beautiful son that's 7 ½ and he’s largely the motivation on those days when I was so sick. Taking care of him, homeschooling him, like I have an amazing husband. If I can’t live for myself, I’m living for my loved ones. I also know because I’ve been through so much, I know that life does get better. I suffered great depression after my mom died when I was 22 years old and I remember the first time I laughed after three months or the first time I smiled after three months. First three months, no smile, no laugh. I remember the first smile. I remember the first laugh. And I remember the first feeling like the doom was fading. So, I know that there is that light at the end of the tunnel and it is so brilliant and amazing and life can be so rewarding. It might take months or years after trauma. It is worth it. Those that love you just cherish you so much and want you to not only not suffer; they want you to thrive and they want you to be around and stick around. 

So, if you don’t have motivation because you’re exhausted, having curiosity and I’m sure those who are listening do because they're listening, to having that curiosity, holding on to it and going let’s go down this rabbit holes and let me just choose 1, 2, 3 things a day that I can do that I could just start to do something towards that goal of just feeling better. Dodging infirmities is a great way to put it. But also, the same activities that dodge infirmities way down the road are things that are going to make you start feeling good today. They’re not separate. It's not like you’ll feel bad today but you’ll be better tomorrow. It’s like going for a walk in the sunlight, that's good for later on. That's good for now too. Same with eating your broccoli, it’s good for now, it’s good for later too. You're treating yourself. You're treating yourself to things that are going to build you up in the short-term but also sustain you in the long-term. So, I love that you pointed that out.

[01:41:18] Dr. Oz Garcia: So long as you're ambulatory, you're six feet above ground and you can just keep moving, you can certainly make things happen. You got to be careful with the way that our thinking is set up. There’s so much work being done now on the conversations what we have with ourselves. The voice in our head and how it all thwarts our ability to carry through and what we know is in our best interest. It’s referred to as the neuro default network. It’s a very lazy kind of mechanism that’s built off different parts of the brain that all together produce the illusion that there's a self inside our heads. The real me is this little me inside my head talking. It just talks innately, incessantly, involuntarily, wakes up and it’s got a million things to say about everything. Most of it is just dead wrong. When you can see that for what it is, that's a long process of mindfulness and meditation so that you can see thoughts kind of just passing your mind like clouds and you act on what you said before, on your list, the list of your goals. “Okay, so I’m going to act on this one thing today” rather than listening to what I had to say to myself because it’s just not all that original. I think that that was critical for me in getting better.

So, as I started to find my strength back, I knew that much of what I was saying to myself in my head, you're never going to get better, this is going to be a struggle, look at how many people have died afterwards or remain cripple. I just kind of disregarded that stream of thought and would go do what I had to do. Don’t get out of bed this morning, stay in bed. Then, get up, go get my breathing device, make my tea, sit there, look at something that I wanted to read and spend an hour or two outside of my bed. Okay, good. Am I going to get a massage today? You don’t want any company, you don’t want people to come over and go. That means that you need to call the person to come over and get body work — going against much of what we often say to ourselves which produces nothing but apathy. 

[01:44:03] Ashley James: Thank you so much for all the amazing things you shared today. I could just talk to you for hours and hours. I love that you’ve brought up the sauna because that's actually another. I have a Sunlighten sauna. I’m actually right beside it. 

[01:44:16] Dr. Oz Garcia: Wonderful!

[01:44:17] Ashley James: I’m knocking on it. it’s in our office. People think they don’t have enough room for a sauna. But it’s the size of a closet but it’s square.

[01:44:28] Dr. Oz Garcia: You can stick it in a closet. 

[01:44:30] Ashley James: Yeah, you could. It’s right beside me. This is our Sunlighten and it’s in our office. We just turned one of the bedrooms into an office. We live in a 1200-square foot townhome and we gave our son the master because that way, he has enough room for his homeschooling stuff and all his play stuff. Then, we took a small bedroom for the office. I converted half the office into a studio with all the sound equipment. I got this sauna here. Oh my gosh, I love the Sunlighten. What I do is I soak in transdermal magnesium using the and they give us a coupon code for listeners, coupon code LTH, and I get a big bowl of water and soak in it in the sauna. I just make sure not to spill it. Oh, I feel so good, I feel so, so good afterwards and it’s not too hot. 

[01:45:26] Dr. Oz Garcia: It’s cool, yeah. It’s a cool sauna. 

[01:45:28] Ashley James: It’s a cool sauna. But I’m sweating and my core temperature is raised so that heat shock proteins work in my favor, I feel so good and my husband does it also and our son, he asks for it. He loves it. He jumps in and of course, we don’t give him a full session, we give him a smaller kid version. But he’ll sit in there and he’ll get a little sweat up. And then, we always run into the shower and got to encourage my family to end with cold, get the blood pumping further. Because that also, it gets the feel-good chemicals going. If you're depressed and you wake up in the morning and you're depressed, after you’ve done gratitude, write down three things you're grateful for. But try getting in a hot shower. Even if you can’t stand, I got a seat to sit in the shower because when I was sick, I want to use hydrotherapy. So you can get a medical seat, you can sit in the shower, sure, if you don’t have a bathtub. But sit in the shower or stand and do nice and hot, and then do 90 seconds to 2 minutes of as cool or as cold as you can stand, have it be on the back of your neck and do some nice deep breathing because your body is going to force yourself to start breathing deep and you try to just get it as cold as possible, but start cool and then turn it down, and that gets some amazing endorphins going. 

[01:46:55] Dr. Oz Garcia: Terrific. It does. 

[01:46:57] Ashley James: Yeah. So you can use hydrotherapy in your home. There are so many things you can do for free. Like you said, sweating in a hot, hot bath and then you could take for hot, hot baths, some people get headaches. But if you take a towel and you get like cold water on it. You can wrap it around your neck and that helps to prevent the headaches, so you can get a really, really hot bath and then can get a cold wet cloth around your neck which all the blood going to your brain is cooler there. 

[01:47:24] Dr. Oz Garcia: Terrific. 

[01:47:26] Ashley James: I love the Sunlighten sauna and they actually give a great discount to my listeners as well because when I interviewed the founder Connie Zack, after trying to find the best sauna that I felt was like the most nontoxic and low EMF and all that. But it’s been monumental for me for recovering from heavy metal issues and detox issues. So, that's been really helpful. But yeah, my recovery has been great using that as well. So, I love that you brough that up. There's all these devices. I love the biohacking you do. How can listeners keep learning from you? What’s the best way? Now, of course, you have a website and that is easy to remember because it’s your name and of course, all the links are going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at Where should people go to learn from you? Is there social media or a YouTube or a podcast? Where should we learn?

[01:48:27] Dr. Oz Garcia: Absolutely. Well, of course, the website and we’re constantly putting up blogs and information. I would say our fan page on Facebook which is Oz Garcia, and we’re constantly posting articles that I think are relevant in just about every area of health that needs to be addressed. If you want to live a long life, if you're into the subject matter that you and I are recovering besides long-hauling, what can you do so that you reduce your risk of infirmities as get older. So, we cover everything from diet to fitness to different ways of eating to the aspects of neuroscience that fascinate me, and the tools that I use.

On Instagram, it’s Oz Wellness. There, I tend to address much more my philosophical bent, my thinking in terms of what makes for a good life. I would suggest for sure getting After COVID which is on Amazon and the full title of course is Optimize Your Health in a Changing World. I put a lot of really good information in there that is a good beginning for supplementation, diet, all the things that we’ve been talking about today. I think beyond that, they're always free to contact me through our website. 

[01:49:49] Ashley James: Awesome. Thank you so much. Is there anything you’d like to say to wrap up today’s interview? Anything that maybe I didn’t touch on or didn’t ask that you really wanted to make sure you conveyed today?

[01:50:03] Dr. Oz Garcia: You and I covered a lot of territory. And I want to emphasize something that I had mentioned we talked about albeit briefly which is happiness, that to the extent that you look at happiness also as a study, something that you can unpack and put together, so that your life has meaning, is meaningful, and you find that there's purpose to it, that's the message that I want to leave everybody because that's where I wound up, that's where I am these days. How do I have meaning, purpose, happiness, contentment, peace of mind? Those are very important features of being a human being.

[01:50:46] Ashley James: Just to reiterate. Where did you go to watch that course? Can you just let us know? Because I’m sure there are some listeners who are like “I got to go do that course right now.” 

[01:50:56] Dr. Oz Garcia: You can do the Wellbeing and Happiness course with Laurie Santos on Coursera. If you want accreditation, it’s $49; otherwise, you can do the course for free which is amazing.

[01:51:08] Ashley James: Oh my gosh, that is amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. I love that. So here, there’s always some people who are like, “Oh, money is really tight.” And I totally get it. Money is tight for everyone right now. But to give someone the gift of happiness, a course about happiness for free, oh wonderful. I was thinking to myself, as you were talking, I’m just like, I’m giving this course. I don’t care how much it costs. I’m giving this course to my mother-in-law for Christmas. And now that I know it’s free, I’m going to give her that course, she’s going to love it. And that's a free gift, so how good is that?

[01:51:44] Dr. Oz Garcia: There are dozens of courses on Coursera of extreme high quality that are available for no cost at all. And I’m looking at which two or three other courses I’m going to be doing soon. So, can’t recommend it enough.

[01:51:59] Ashley James: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Please come back on the show any time you have more to share. I’d love for you to come back and teach anytime you feel inspired to come back and teach more, we’d love to have you.

[01:52:09] Dr. Oz Garcia: Let’s do it. I’d love it, Ashley.

[01:52:12] Ashley James: Awesome. Thank you so much.

[01:52:14] Dr. Oz Garcia: Thank you. This was terrific. And it flew. 

[01:52:18] Ashley James: Wasn’t that an amazing episode with Dr. Oz Garcia? I am blown away. I just love him. He’s fantastic. He’s agreed to come back on the show and he’s going to share the next time he comes back on the show about the science of anti-aging and getting your cellular age to be younger and younger. You know, it seems to be a theme in my life right now because I have two things that we’re going to be talking about very soon, I’m really excited. Just a little sneak peek, no spoilers. But there's two things that have popped into my life and I really believe in divine intervention and divine timing that this podcast has taught me that. I’ve talked about it on the show before where I give this link for guests to put themselves on my calendar and I will go out and I will reach out to all kinds of really cool holistic doctors on different topics. Like I’m not going to one day I don’t just go through and go okay, heart health, people. Like I’d just go, oh, this guy wrote this book, this person, I want to get this person. Oh, I’ve heard about this person. And I’d give them all this link and then they put themselves on my calendar. And almost every time I do that, all the heart health people book themselves back-to-back. All the diabetes people book themselves back-to-back.

It happens so often that I just laugh. I go, of course, of course you guys did. Then, when I publish, I don’t always publish in the same order, sometimes I publish, I go, okay, I really feel like it’s time for this episode to come out, and I just get a feeling in my gut like okay, it’s time for this episode to come out. Then, I’ll get a listener messaging me saying, “how did you know this was the answer to my prayer? Yesterday or today, I’ve been just lost and I’ve been asking for an answer. Then, I look at my phone and I get a notification for this episode and this is the answer to what I’ve been looking for.” That happens so often. I believe in divine intervention. It is so remarkable. What started to pop up in the last month or month and a half in my life are a few things that are blowing my mind, the science behind these things. And these things are unrelated but what they have in common is they all reverse cellular age, and there's this one thing that this company actually sent it to me so I could try it myself. My husband and I are hooked. It is so cool and they did a study and they found that by using it for three months, your cells are 8 years younger after only 3 months. That just blows my mind and it takes only a few minutes a day to use this thing. We’ve been loving it. 

There's this other company who’s been around for almost 20 years. They have so many studies. It’s really, really exciting. They are able to reverse cellular age. They're able to remarkably increase stem cells in your body to the point where you can test in your blood and it’s like you’re a newborn baby. You have so many stem cells. It increases stem cells hugely. It increases peptides in the body that end up doing all these things like for us vain people, fine lines and wrinkles go away but people are noticing more flexibility. They're actually seeing that there's more muscle growth and more fat burning. They're able to bring down the stress hormones and the stress response in the body noticeably. They see it in heart rate, heart rate variability. So, the list goes on and on. It’s something that you can use at home, again, easy to use at home. I think it’s really affordable compared to like these giant machines that these holistic clinics have. So, I’m very excited because what keeps dropping in my lap is all these antiaging and reversing cellular age, decreasing oxidative stress in the body. Oh yeah, and another thing, there's been Parkinson’s patients who are shaking and then they use it and they stop shaking right away. 

So, it has this effect, calming effect on the nervous system and it stimulates the body’s ability to heal itself. How cool is that? So, I’m very excited. We’re going to be talking about that in upcoming episodes, so watch for that. But I have a feeling, I just keep getting this intuition that at least part of 2023, if not all of 2023, my podcast largely are going to be about reversing cellular age, reversing degenerative disease and supporting the body to create new healthy cells in its place. So, very excited about that. I think you should be too because it’s not that I want to live be a thousand old, yes actually I do, I think that’d be really amazing. I want to live the healthiest, youngest life possible until I’m ready to leave this world. Right? If you’ve ever been around someone who didn’t take care of their body and they were on their deathbed, it is anguish for those people. It’s sometimes years of suffering. What I want for you is to live fully, live so healthy, so happy where when you're 70, you're going “I feel better than I did when I was 20. That's what I want for you.” I want you to be outrunning the 20-year-olds when you're 70 and when you're 80 and 90, feeling absolutely on top of your game and amazing. That's what I want for all of us. So, I’m going to find those experts and I already have two lined up like I told you about. I’m going to keep finding them and like Dr. Oz Garcia, he’s going to come back on the show and share his tips and tricks because he is gorgeous. This man is so handsome, he does not look like he’s in his 70’s. He looks like he’s in his 50’s and of course, it’s because he’s living proof. He’s living what he preaches. So, get ready to feel amazing no matter what age you are by continuing to listen to the Learn True Health podcast and as always, please share this with those you care about because we got to spread this message and help all of our friends and family and co-workers to feel amazing at every age. 

Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day. Whatever holiday you celebrate, I celebrate Christmas, so Merry Christmas. Whatever holiday you celebrate in the coming months, I hope you have an amazing time and just remember, stress is the worst thing you can do for your body, so let it go. Take some deep breaths and put yourself in a position where you're feeling love and letting go of all that stress because stress is not helping you or anyone you're around. So, just focus on that. Focus on love and let go of the stress. I’m aiming for a completely stress-free holiday season this year and I think it’s going to be very healthy for me. I hope you do as well.


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Nov 23, 2022

It's November, and that means my FAVORITE holistic health products go on sale for the biggest savings of the year! And this year, I have some HUGE discounts to share with you! How does 40% off with free shipping sound?!

Listen to episodes 294, 341, and 391 for the story behind this very special magnesium soak and how it is the world's best at being absorbed through the skin and alleviating issues common with magnesium deficiency, such as pain, muscle tension, cramps, headaches, migraines, fatigue, sleep issues, and restless legs.

The magnesium collection is on sale today till November 30th with up to 30% off WHILE SUPPLIES LAST. In years past, they have completely sold out of inventory, so if you want to take advantage of this deal, I encourage you to do it soon. 

This discount gets even better because Kristen has given my listeners an additional 10% off at checkout when you use the coupon code LTH.  

So you can stock up on your magnesium soak, cream, muscle cream, and magnesium spray for 40% off, plus free shipping on orders over $99. 

Here is the link to what Kristen Bowen calls her "Calm Black Friday Sale" because instead of panicking during the holidays, we can relax and calm our nervous system with highly absorbable magnesium.


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492: Healing Insulin Resistance and Diabetes

Do you suffer from blood sugar imbalance? Do you really want to finally get your blood sugar levels under control once and for all? Do you want to avoid insulin injections or stay off of medications? In this episode, Cyrus Khambatta, PhD talks about lowering your blood sugar naturally, mastering this condition without the use of drugs, and how to increase insulin sensitivity and reduce insulin resistance.

Ashley James And Dr. Cyrus Khambatta


  • Eating a raw diet
  • The ratio of carbohydrate to insulin use
  • Cutting out oil and animal products
  • Fatty acids
  • Diets that make you sick
  • Insulin resistance and insulin sensitivity


Hello, true health seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. Today, you have such an amazing treat to have a PhD, Cyrus Khambatta on the show today, sharing his side of the story about how him and his partner Robby Barbaro created Mastering Diabetes. Both of them have type 1 diabetes, and both of them hugely, hugely increased their insulin sensitivity so much that they require so little insulin to inject into themselves daily that every type 1 diabetic needs to know about this because it’s going to save them thousands of dollars and it’s going to save them years on their life, disease-free years even on their life. Every type 1 diabetic needs this information. But every type 2 diabetic needs it because this is exactly how you can reverse type 2 diabetes and increase your insulin sensitivity so much that you no longer have hyper- or hypoglycemia. I am so excited for you to have this information because even prediabetics or those who have metabolic syndrome, women who have polycystic ovarian syndrome will benefit from this information because it’s all about the insulin resistance. And today, PhD Cyrus Khambatta shares exactly the science behind it and why we develop insulin resistance and how we can reverse it, and it is all with diet and lifestyle, which is really exciting because that puts the power back in your hands. That’s exactly what my show is intended to do. This is what I set out to do in all these interviews, is get you the information so that you can learn how to create true health.

Now, another tool that I want you to know about is my favorite magnesium soak. Magnesium is the most required mineral in the body. The body needs it for 1800 enzymatic processes. The second most needed mineral is zinc at only 800 enzymatic processes. So, you can imagine as the list goes down and down, magnesium is huge for our health and healing. When we have magnesium deficiency, there's over 200 different illnesses and symptoms associated with magnesium deficiency. Most people are walking around deficient in magnesium and suffering from the side effects of magnesium deficiency without even knowing it, and then they medicate themselves. Doctors will give you a drug for, for example, restless legs syndrome is a magnesium deficiency and yet, the pharmaceutical companies have created a drug for it, which is it’s madness and it is unethical, frankly.

So, I have interviews with Kristen Bowen, the founder of this company that has the most absorbable form of transdermal magnesium. She has a program where you do it for 30 days and you get to full cell saturation. She explains in our interviews how you can do that and how you can even test. There's a special test you have to order. It’s about $40 or $50 when you order it online. But you could do a special magnesium RBC blood test. If you wanted to test your cell saturation of magnesium before and after you do her transdermal magnesium soak, she has an amazing story. I highly recommend that you check it out. You can go back and listen to episode 294 for her story in the Learn True Health podcast episode 294. She also came back on episode 341 to answer listener questions about magnesium, and then at 391 we talked about other very interesting things to know about magnesium, including getting rid of parasites. So, that episode is also very interesting, this particular magnesium soak. And I’ve taken magnesium orally for many years, and I was still magnesium deficient, and that's the thing. Most people who take it orally like by drinking it or taking capsules, they're still magnesium-deficient because it’s very hard to absorb most magnesium supplements. Most magnesium supplements go right through people and yet, when you do the magnesium soak, you absorb it straight through your skin into your lymph system and then that from there, goes into your bloodstream and it circulates and it bathes every cell in the body with this magnesium. It’s very bioavailable and you can see it in the blood tests. And that's what we talk about in episode 294. So, I definitely recommend checking it out.

What is so exciting is that right now, going on for the month of November, while supplies last, she has in past years run out of it because the sale is so good, she gives the best sale, it is 30% off plus she still honors the Learn True Health coupon code, so the LTH coupon code. She still honors it. So, in fact, it’s 40% off. And if your order is over $99, so if it’s a $100 order which you can buy all your magnesium soak for the whole year, for the whole next year, she gives free shipping. So, you basically are getting 40% off with free shipping when you use the coupon code LTH at checkout. You have to remember to use it at checkout because she can’t go back and change it. She says she’s very sorry. They have such a huge amount of orders that come in during the cyber sales. This year, she’s making a cyber sale all the month of November, so check it out, go to I know it’s a mouthful, it’s such a cute name though and it’s very memorable. And make sure that you use the coupon code LTH at checkout for the additional 10% off that she’s giving us in addition to the 30% off. All the magnesium stuff is on sale on her website.

Then she’s got a few other things on her website that I really like. Everything she sells is 100% natural, it’s paraben-free, cruelty-free, and fair-trade. She’s really big into that, very big into high-quality ingredients. But I go there for the magnesium. It has been a gamechanger for me. I share about it in past episodes, so you can go back and listen to those—294341, and 381. Our son who’s always fought sleep, when we put it in his bath when he was a toddler, he would turn to me and say, “Okay, I’m ready for bed now.” And I was like “Whoa, this is amazing! This stuff really works.” So if you have problems falling asleep, if your kids have problems falling asleep or if you have energy problems, if you have restless legs or if you have migraines, we’ve had listeners actually, over 200 listeners in our Facebook group have shared testimonials through the years of how fantastic this magnesium soak has changed their lives. And we’ve had listeners talk about how their migraines went away and their headaches went away. The tension headaches will go away. And even chronic pain. What’s really interesting is your pain receptors cannot close when there’s a lack of magnesium. So, a deficiency of magnesium can cause chronic pain to continue to persist. In the presence of magnesium, they’re able to close. So, a lot of people have found that this actually is very beneficial if they're struggling with pain as well. So, it’s a great gift to give to those you love. I love the magnesium cream. I love using it if I feel like I’m crampy or if my feet are crampy at the end of the day or my legs, I love using the magnesium cream and it’s very quick, within minutes I’m feeling all my muscles just melt and relax. So, there's that, but then there's the soak and you can go listen to episode 294 to learn how to use the soak. Remember the coupon code is LTH as in Learn True HealthLTH at Make sure that you go and get some now before supplies run out because it’s such a huge sale and I know that you’re going to love to grab a few of those magnesium creams. It’s only $15. In addition to that, take off 10% for the Learn True Health discount. Those are fantastic stocking stuffers, great for holiday gifts. I know I definitely am going to stock up to give those away as gifts to my friends and family for sure.

Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this episode with those you care about. Please share it with everyone you know who has blood sugar dysregulation and wants to get on the other side of that because this is exactly how you do it and the science is there and I’m so excited to have Cyrus share with you today how he has helped thousands of people, thousands and thousands of people to reverse their type 2 diabetes and thousands of type 1 diabetics to increase their insulin sensitivity so much that they're able to lower their insulin needs hugely. Which is so beneficial for many reasons. That's what we talk about in today’s episode. You can also go back and listen to the episodes I did with Robby Barbaro in episode 233 and 489. Those are good episodes to listen to, to hear his side of the story for mastering diabetes and how he was able to eat—I think he went from eating 30 net grams of carbohydrates on 30 units of insulin, which is a horrible ratio of insulin units to carbs, to being able to maintain the same amount of insulin, but then eat 700 grams of carbohydrates and his blood sugar actually got better. So, Robby’s story is very similar to Cyrus’, but you can go back and listen to his episode 233 and 489

Have yourself a fantastic day and just happy holidays! Happy Thanksgiving, a Merry Christmas! Whatever holiday you celebrate—the Hannukah, Kwanzaa, whatever you're celebrating, you're just celebrating and being with your friends and family, my love goes out to you. Really, I’m just hugging you, I’m just sending my hugs to you. This can be a wonderful time of year. It can be a very painful time of year, having lost my parents. It’s bittersweet. So, I can really understand and relate to you. What I love about the magnesium sale is Kristen Bowen calls it her Calm Black Friday sale because magnesium calms, it actually is very therapeutic for our nervous system, for our stress levels. So if you find yourself a little stressed out in the holidays which I do too, and it’s understandable, get some magnesium soak and treat yourself. Treat yourself to that and be gentle and be loving with yourself. I’m giving you big hugs. Give yourself some big hugs. Be gentle with yourself and see what you can do for the next two months to nurture yourself and jump into 2023 with great goals for your health and take everything that Cyrus says to heart because he has a fantastic program for reversing disease and for increasing health to such a monumental level that you will feel like a million bucks has been handed to you every day, every morning you wake up. Enjoy today’s episode!

[00:12:00] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 492.

I am so excited for today’s guest. I have been trying to get Cyrus on the show for years, and just both of our schedules have never come together until now, so I just feel like it’s kismet, you know, it’s meant to be. Today, finally, PhD Cyrus Khambatta is on the show. We’re going to talk about the deep science of why this very specific way of eating completely reverses type 2 diabetes, re-sensitizes insulin and even helps those who have type 1 diabetes to become so much more insulin-sensitive that their ratio of insulin units to carbohydrates becomes very good. Just very, very, very good. So, we see people restore even things like eyesight and neuropathy, improvements in immunity—all of this—heart disease, cancer, blood pressure, all these things get better and better. Inflammation goes way down. What’s great though, is that people feel like a million bucks eating this way. Now, there's a lot of science behind it and it’s a very specific way of eating that it does take a little bit getting used to, but once you're doing it, you never want to stop because you feel so dang good. 

Cyrus, I am really excited to dig deep into the science today to understand how this one way of eating is it’s kind of like the fountain of youth and then it helps reverse so many diseases and helps people live optimal lives. I’m just chomping at the bit, can’t wait to dive in. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. 

[00:13:49] Cyrus Khambatta: Awesome. Thank you, thank you so much. I really appreciate the invitation to be here. I apologize, I wasn’t intending to play hard to get here, but I’m glad we’re talking now.

[00:13:59] Ashley James: I just think your schedule, my schedule, and they just kept not working together, but it’s actually perfect because I had the opportunity to have your partner on the show, Robby on the show several times talking about Mastering Diabetes, this beautiful book you guys have written and also, this whole program you guys have come up with. You guys just launched a summit which was amazing, and listeners should go to diabetes to check out the summit there. Then to get your book which is now in paperback—congratulations by the way—paperback and in hardcover. And I know this has been a labor of love. And again, what I love is that you have so much science in it, and to prove this is how it works, but you also have so many testimonials. You have thousands and thousands of stories of success backing what you guys do, and that is Of course, the links to everything that Cyrus does is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at

Very quickly, let’s just touch on so you have a PhD. Let’s touch on because you’re like the science end of the Mastering Diabetes book, so I’d love to hear a bit about how did you meet Robby and tell us a bit about your background, how you guys came together to create this for so many people to be able to reverse their diabetes. 

[00:15:18] Cyrus Khambatta: Great question. So, I basically was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes in the year 2002 when I was a senior. I was studying mechanical engineering at Stanford University and I was just trying to graduate and move on with my life and all of a sudden, I got this strange diagnosis and I just felt very sort of like low energy and I was kind of confused and my vision was getting weird and I was dehydrated all the time. So, I finally ended up going to the health center. They sent me to the emergency room and there, I got diagnosed with not 1, not 2 but 3 autoimmune conditions. So, the first one is Hashimoto’s hypothyroidism. Then, the second one was alopecia universalis which is basically just total hair loss. Then the third one was type 1 diabetes. So, I got diagnosed with all three of these practically overnight and I became a chronic disease patient all of a sudden. It was a pretty tough time and it’s a lot of information to take in at any one given moment in time. So, for the first year, my life with type 1 diabetes, I was just kind of listening what the doctors were telling me which was to eat a low-carbohydrate diet and use that as my primary weapon of choice, if you will, to try and minimize my use of insulin and try and keep my blood glucose very controlled.

So, I did that for about a year and I just found out that my health was just getting worse and worse and worse. The promise that they had given me was that my glucose would become more controllable and that my insulin use would go down or my insulin use wouldn’t go up. And it turns out that neither one of those was true because my blood glucose was very hard to control, extremely hard to control. And in addition to that, my insulin use started out at about 25 units per day, and then before I knew it, it was at 28 and then 32 and then 36 and then 39 and then 41 and then 47 and then 52 and 55. There were days where I was injecting somewhere between 50 and 60 units per day and I was like, the math doesn’t make sense and I was literally not eating the thing that’s supposed to cause my blood glucose to go up which is carbohydrate because that’s what I’ve been told. But yet, my glucose is going high, and my insulin use is climbing. So, like, what am I doing wrong? I just don’t understand. I mean, I’m an active guy. I was exercising 3, 4, 5 times a week, I was riding my bike, I was trying to do everything. I was playing soccer, I was lifting weights. But it didn’t seem to matter. 

So, to answer your question, where did Robby come around? What happened was that I switched over to eating a plant-based diet in the year 2003, and I did under the supervision of, in my opinion, a genius, a guy who saved my life. His name is Dr. Doug Graham. And he went on to write a book called The 80/10/10 Diet. He basically teaches people how to eat a raw food diet. So, under his tutelage, I said, you know what, I’ll do this raw food thing, I got no problem with that. I just want to feel better. Within the first week of eating the way that he described, my glucose fell like a rock. My insulin use fell very quickly.

[00:18:30] Ashley James: Now, sorry to interrupt, raw diets are primarily carbohydrates. 

[00:18:35] Cyrus Khambatta: Yeah, so that’s the kicker. That’s the kicker. So, what you’re saying is absolutely true, which is okay, so, the medical institution said, hey Cyrus, carbs are bad for you. Carbs will make your blood glucose go up. Carbs will make you use more insulin, so eat less carbs. I was like, okay, sounds like a plan. So, while I was doing that, because I was eating less carbohydrate energy, what I was eating more of is protein and fat that came from things like red meat, white meat, fish, chicken, turkey burgers, peanut butter, dairy products, olive oil. And I was trying to limit my intake of things like pastas and potatoes and fruits because, again, that’s where the carbohydrates are found, and I was told that carbohydrates are bad for me. So, I was trying to eat a bunch of these sort of like fat-rich foods and protein-rich foods. And again, while doing that, it was supposed to keep my glucose down and keep my insulin use from going up, but neither one of those happened. So, when I met Doug and he switched me over to eating a raw food diet, I started eating large plates of fruit and large plates of fruits and vegetables together. I was nervous that my glucose would go up because those plates and those bowls are very large with, no exaggeration, between 8 and 12 servings of fruit in one shot, in one meal. The math behind it and sort of what the doctors had led me to believe was that like glucose would go extremely high and instead of seeing like a 200 blood glucose value after eating a meal, that by eating a bowl of fruit, my glucose would go up to a 400 or maybe even a 500. So, that was the fear that I had. But then, once I started to eat the way that Doug had described, I recognized that my blood glucose did the exact opposite thing. 

The expectation was that my glucose would go through the roof, but in reality, instead of hitting a routine 180 or 200 or 220 after a meal, which is what happened on a low-carbohydrate diet. After a meal when eating a fruit-based meal, my blood glucose was like 120 or maybe 130. And then, I would continue this process over and over and over again, and my blood glucose just didn’t seem to go anywhere, didn’t seem to go high at all. What was interesting was that not only was my blood glucose not going high after a meal but in between meals and in the middle of the night, my blood glucose was going down. And so as a result of that now, I had to limit the amount of insulin I was injecting myself and back off because the amount of insulin that I was injecting was now too powerful. So, instead of injecting 42 units, 45 units of insulin per day, all of a sudden it went from 45 down to 35, and then from 35 to 31 to 27, and I ended up at like 24 units of insulin per day after 1 week.

So, Ashley, here’s the kicker. These numbers are ridiculous, okay? Before, I was eating approximately 100 grams of carbohydrate, and I was using approximately 42 units of insulin. So, 100 divided by 42, we’ll call 2 ½. Okay. My ratio of carbohydrate to insulin use was 2 ½, meaning that every time I ate approximately 2 ½ grams of carbohydrate, I would have to inject 1 unit of insulin. When I started to eat a raw food diet, when I started to eat a plant-based diet, my intake of carbohydrate went from 100 grams to 700 grams per day. No exaggeration. And my use of insulin went from 42 units per day down to 25 units per day. So, if you calculate the new ratio of 700 grams of carbohydrate divided by 25 units of insulin, now, instead of operating at a 2.5 to 1 ratio, I was now operating at a 28:1 ratio.

[00:22:54] Ashley James: Which proves your insulin sensitivity.

[00:22:57] Cyrus Khambatta: Bingo. So, my insulin sensitivity had gone up significantly. So, previously, I would have to inject 1 unit of insulin per approximately 2.5 grams of carbohydrate that went into my mouth. Now, eating a plant-based diet, I would have to inject 1 unit of insulin per approximately 28 grams of carbohydrate, and this is almost a 10-fold increase in my insulin sensitivity. That's bonkers.

[00:23:22] Ashley James: It is bonkers. I want to say two things real quick before some people start turning this off. Because they’re like, I’m sure someone is thinking, “I can’t be a raw vegan. I can’t be a fruitarian. That's whacko.” Right? So first of all, what you guys are teaching is not exclusively fruitarian. You can eat cooked food. But Cyrus is telling his story, and which is really important because if we listen for the physiology, the science of how our body works, and this is where I get so angry. Okay, I step on my soapbox, people. We have people dying because they cannot afford their insulin. Type 1 diabetics, the insulin cost in the United States have gone up so much that people are going homeless, going broke trying to afford their insulin and they're deciding whether they need to pay their rent or survive another month because they can’t afford their insulin. I mean, this is so infuriating and yet, they're not told by any of their doctors that there is a way to increase their insulin sensitivity so that they need less units, so that they could afford their rent again. Then they could afford their car payment or the gas. They don’t have to go broke and homeless because they’re deciding whether they're going to live another month because they can’t afford their insulin. And I am so livid with this system where your plan, what you teach in your book Mastering Diabetes, is known, it’s a known thing and yet doctors are not teaching this. And maybe these doctors don’t know it. Some do but it’s not yelled from the rooftops. And if you get into the conspiracy of needing to keep people sick so that they can make money, they would rather sell you a higher amount of insulin than sell you a lower amount of insulin.

So, they're going to promote a diet that “manages” your diabetes and keeps you diabetic, keeps your insulin sensitivity very bad, keeps you insulin resistant. Right? So, they can sell you more drugs. Then the American Diabetes Association ever promoting a diet that would within three months completely reverse diabetes for type 2 diabetics and increase insulin sensitivity so much that type 1 diabetics could lower their insulin intake, saving them money and frankly increasing the quality and increasing the longevity of their life.

[00:25:50] Cyrus Khambatta: Yeah, no questions, Ashley. Absolutely right. I mean, you can ask a hundred doctors how much nutrition did you learn in medical school and all one hundred of them are going to tell you that they learned somewhere between 0 and 20 hours within their entire medical school education. Having gone through a PhD program to learn nutrition inside and out, I can tell you that in 20 hours, you can’t even scratch the surface. I mean, you can’t even get to the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg in nutrition because it’s a very complex subject, and there’s a lot of things to take into account, a lot of things to learn. So, we can’t look at doctors as being authorities on nutrition. It’s not their fault. Doctors are phenomenal human beings and they're very altruistic and they really want to help people, but they just don’t have the tools. And so, we have to look beyond the medical institution if we really want to find a way to use as medicine and that’s where a program like Mastering Diabetes comes into play. 

[00:26:59] Ashley James: Okay, so there you were in your first week trying out Dr. Doug Graham’s protocol. You’re eating as much fruit as you want. Your insulin needs have gone way down. Your blood sugar is balanced. You’re feeling like a million bucks. Then, what? Because at this point, you haven’t even thought of becoming a PhD in nutrition, right? You were on a totally different track.   

[00:27:29] Cyrus Khambatta: That’s exactly right. So, let’s go backward. Basically, I made the transition to eating a plant-based diet in the year 2003. Just for full clarity, going back to what you were saying, my story is about becoming a raw food vegan. That’s just because that’s what was presented to me at the time. But if you fast forward to now, we’re in 2022, which is 19 years beyond, the methodology that I teach people living with all forms of diabetes and the research that I’ve done over the past almost two decades, is that if you want to be a raw foodist, go for it. If you don’t want to be a raw foodist, go for it. Right? If you want to just eat a diet that contains a significant amount of plant material, that is good enough. So, like you were saying, I just don’t want people to get intimidated like “Oh, there’s that raw food guy talking about raw foods” because like I don’t even eat a raw food diet right now anymore. I just happened to start upon that diet back in the day.

So, we go backwards in time, 2003, I felt like a million bucks. I continued to live this way, I continued to adopt this lifestyle and my life got better and better. So, my insulin use stayed down, my blood glucose was very normalized. I became extremely active once again because I grew up as kind of one of these like my mom refers to me as a health cat. I’m one of those guys that just wakes up in the morning and I have so much energy, I don’t know what to do with it. So, from a young age, I would play soccer then baseball then basketball then running then swimming and then hiking and whatnot. In my young 20’s when I did go through this transition and I started to eat a plant-based diet, all of a sudden, I got that excessive amount of energy back and I was like, “Oh, I feel like a 5-year-old kid again. This feels awesome. I love it.” So, I continued to live a very high-energy lifestyle, which was directly a result of eating a plant-based diet. So, 2007 rolls around and I was like, you know what, I want to learn this stuff. I want to not just understand, have a personal story, but I want to actually learn the science.

So, I put myself back to graduate school and I got a PhD in nutritional biochemistry because that’s the super nerd nutrition science that I was looking for. Right? So, I go to UC Berkley for 5 years from 2007 to 2012, and I did a PhD in the subject of nutritional biochemistry. And I wrote a thesis on the ins and outs of insulin resistance and basically how you can manipulate insulin resistance, how you can create insulin resistance, how you can reverse insulin resistance, and how you can use diet and exercise to your advantage to really control the amount of glucose and insulin inside of your blood.

It was an eye-opening experience for me because I got to read thousands of scientific papers, I got to conduct scientific experiments, I got to really get so, so deep in the research that my mind was blown. It gave me an explanation for what was happening inside my own body but then it also completely opened up my mind to the idea that there are so many people on this planet that could benefit from eating a plant-based diet. That this story was no longer about Cyrus Khambatta. The story is about the human race. The story is not about this guy who got type 1 diabetes and happened to eat a plant-based diet. The story is about everybody who eats a diet that predisposes them towards insulin resistance and how they can eat in a way to reverse insulin resistance and lower their chronic disease risk, whether that’s diabetes or heart disease or cancer or autoimmune diseases or dementia or Alzheimer’s disease or fatty liver disease or chronic kidney disease, I don’t care. All of those conditions are influenced by your level of insulin resistance. So, if we can make you an insulin-sensitive individual, then your overall chronic disease risk goes to zero. 

[00:31:41] Ashley James: Oh my gosh, I love it. So, in having your thesis accepted, tell me a bit about, you know, it was peer-reviewed, right, or you have professors reading your thesis, like what was their take on it? Did you blow some people’s minds? Were they resistant to your hypothesis, to your findings?

[00:32:04] Cyrus Khambatta: It was actually really interesting because the actual subject material of my thesis was trying to use intermittent fasting in particular as the primary intervention tool to be able to manipulate insulin resistance. So, what we would do is we would actually induce insulin resistance inside of laboratory animals, inside of mice and rats, and then we would rescue that insulin sensitivity by putting them onto a calorie restriction regimen or an intermittent fasting regimen. And so, my thesis didn’t really necessarily have anything to do with eating a plant-based directly. It was more about how do you manipulate the timing of your food intake in order to rescue your insulin sensitivity once again. When I presented all this to my thesis committee and did my qualifying examination and then my defense, it was never a question about like is this right. It’s not controversial in the world of biology, in the scientific world of biology. If you go to social media and you make a statement like a high-fat diet can induce insulin resistance, you’ll get torn to shreds. Because everyone and their mother has their own opinion about what they think is right and what they don’t think is right. “This is my experience and my mom said this and my brother said this and whatnot…” It all becomes this giant conflict-ridden conversation where people are pointing fingers at each other and saying “Oh no, you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re wrong,” right? But if you go into the scientific world and you present these ideas to people who are in the insulin resistance research-based world and you say yeah, we induce insulin resistance in laboratory mice and laboratory animals using a high-fat diet for 8 weeks, it’s silence. Everyone goes “Oh, okay, great, yeah. I know. That’s the way you create insulin resistance. Of course. Like there’s no argument here, that makes perfect sense.” Right?

It was this disconnect that I was seeing over and over and over again because the scientific world is pretty darn clear about what creates insulin resistance. But then if you go to the general public, the general public literally does the exact opposite. So, the scientific world basically says if you try and create insulin resistance inside of either a laboratory mouse or a rat or a human being or even a monkey, our closest primate ancestors, what you’ll find is that the way to do it repeatedly is to feed these animals and feed a human a high fat diet. It’s not a sugar diet. It’s not a high carbohydrate diet. It’s not a high fruit diet. It’s not a high potato diet. It’s not a high pasta diet. It’s a high fat diet that contains primarily saturated fat. If you feed an animal or you feed a human this type of diet for about 8 weeks, what you will find is that blood glucose levels begin to rise and they get elevated or they’re sustained at an elevated rate or an elevated concentration, and that insulin production also begins to increase in order to try and compensate to bring blood glucose back down again. 

So, this is very well-described, it’s very well-known and it’s literally the exact mechanism that we used over and over and like, literally, hundreds of experiments to induce insulin resistance inside of these laboratory animals. But if you go to the outside world and you actually ask people on the street or you ask doctors or you ask influencers on Instagram or YouTube, well, what causes insulin resistance, they’ll tell you the exact opposite. It’s not about saturated fat for the general public. It’s not about eating a high-fat diet. They’ll tell you it’s carbs. Carbs are bad for you. Sugar is bad for you. Carbs are bad for you. Carbohydrates are bad for you. Don’t eat carbs. Carbs, carbs, carbs, carbs. You go to the American Diabetes Association, it’s about carbs. You go to the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation, the JDRF, the primary research-based organization for people with type 1 diabetes, they're telling you that it’s all about carbohydrates. And I literally sit there and I bang my head against the wall sometimes and I’m like, is the rest of the world under some kind of weird hypnosis? What the hell is going on? It’s like mind-boggling because what the general public is saying is so out of touch with what the research actually shows that I feel like I’m trying to educate the world about something that is absolutely true and is very repeatable, but yet, somehow I’m the minority and I’m the weirdo that gets a finger pointed and that I don’t know how to read research or that we’re citing research that’s not peer reviewed or some collection, if that makes any sense. 

[00:37:06] Ashley James: Well, we’ve got this mass group think where we have been brainwashed since very, very young children. You and I both grew up in the ‘80s. I’m only a few years older than you, I think, or we’re right about the same age. 

[00:37:24] Cyrus Khambatta: Yes, exactly.

[00:37:25] Ashley James: But anyways, growing up in the ‘80s, it was such a time of innocence. I was like 3 years old on my tricycle alone on our street. We could go out. I have memories. Because it was a very quiet street and I knew all the kids on our street. I just remember going out and playing alone on the streets, like this is a time of innocence. Our parents entrusted the TV as a babysitter. I mean, my parents were really, really great and they didn’t give me unlimited TV but there were times when they just popped me in front of TV because I was a hyper kid and it was just easier to manage their lives. I would sit there watching these… and also, my parents did not take me to fast food. Being a kid, we had in the ‘80s less fast food than they have now in the States. I live in the States now but I grew up in Canada. But I watched these commercials and it would be Kellogg’s and it would be all these cereals and it was these magical characters that you could trust. I grew up loving this Tony the Tiger and these spooky animals, whatever. Also, my mom didn’t buy any cereal where sugar was an ingredient. She was as health nut and so, I didn’t get to have any of this stuff, although there would be once in a blue moon like maybe 5 times in my childhood I had like sugary cereal. But, I’d go down the aisles in the grocery store and it was a form of trust and I had these good warm feelings in myself.

Now, having studied neurolinguistic programming and having studied how we create reality and understanding how they do propaganda. Edward Bernays – you study Edward Bernays, that's great. Understanding how they create marketing to do propaganda and brainwashing. When you walk down the aisles and look at brands and look at logos. Now, you have a kid, I have a kid, and before he could read, he knew logos. “Ah, Starbucks!” He would yell. I’m like, this kid, it was like a toddler having maybe a 50-word vocabulary but he would say “Home Depot!” like he’d point out because he knew we were at Home Depot because he could see the logo. Wherever we went, he would point at the logo and I’m like, this is brand marketing. When we go down the aisles and we see these sugary foods or when we drive through the drive-thru, you were raised to love a Ronald McDonald. You were raised to trust him and trust the food because you have these good warm feelings inside of when your parents took you or your grandparents or aunt or uncle or whatever or your big brother took you to the drive-thru or took you in to McDonald’s or whatever, insert fast food restaurant. Or, did a microwave dinner and made some kind of Mac ‘N Cheese, whatever garbage processed food, they have marketed and they have associated really good emotions with it. We grew up on a high fat processed food diet, but it has become part of our belief system that it is good because it is through the marketing of making us feel good and trusting these characters, these cartoon characters. Right?

Also, all the memories we have with our families eating this food, we trust it. Then, someone comes along and says this stuff is the cause of your diabetes and we want to say “No, I was told that Atkins reverses diabetes and keto diet is good for me, and these are high fat diets and therefore, you can’t tell me that a high fat diet is the cause of my problems.”

So, first thing we have to do is say if you're sick, and I’ve had five diseases, so my main listeners who had listened for a while know, but I had raging out-of-control blood sugar, type 2 diabetes. For many years I had out-of-control blood sugar before I was even diagnosed with diabetes. I also had polycystic ovarian syndrome, infertility. I was told that I’d never have kids. After a battery of tests, I reversed that even though other doctors/endocrinologists said I could never reverse that, thank you very much.

[00:41:21] Cyrus Khambatta: I’ll tell you.

[00:41:22] Ashley James: Exactly. Right? The thing is you have to be stubborn. You have to be able to be willing to say no, like don’t bow down to this authority. We put the medical doctor on a pedestal or our parents or whoever in our life is saying you’ll always have this or the reason why you have this heart disease or this diabetes or whatever it is. The reason why you have this is because your genetics or because whatever they want to say, or because of your age. None of that. None of that is the reason. Do not buy into someone telling you how you're going to be and how your body is going to be. You should rage against it and say “No, I want to get healthier.” The thing is, and I think this is the hardest thing to swallow because it is a blow to our ego, we have to accept that what we’ve done both consciously and unconsciously, all the behaviors that we’ve done have led us to where we are right now. So if we’re on medications and we’re sick and we’re feeling horrible, we got to stop pointing the finger and we got to just say okay, what I’m doing and what I’ve been doing isn’t working. Like the person who’s been on and off keto diet or on and off Atkins and they're still sick. And that was me for so many years. 

[00:42:33] Cyrus Khambatta: What ended up happening? How did you end up…

[00:42:35] Ashley James: Okay, I mean, I’ll go back in my story because I think it’s important for listeners who are struggling with diabetes, but I, in my teenage years, had hypoglycemia and it was pretty brutal but I was like you, as a child, incredibly energetic. I was an athlete. I don’t know if you know who Kurt Browning is, a Canadian. He’s our gold medalist in figure skating for many years. His coach was my figure skating coach growing up. So, I was intense. I love figure skating, I love downhill skiing. I love water skiing, tennis. I did everything. I bike rode or rollerbladed. I mean, I was on the rugby team and the swim team, and I weightlifted in high school. I loved being active. My mom, she had a lot of emotional issues around food and weight and she was constantly struggling to lose 5 pounds. Now looking back, I realize, so she was always skinny and also muscular because she worked out a lot because she had almost that anorexic mindset of anorexic and look in the mirror and see that they're fat when they're not. That my mom had that distorted view that she maybe had 5 pounds—maybe—on her body of excess weight. But she was always like, “Oh, I have to lose the 5 pounds!” That was kind of always the background, this panicky-ness around diet and she started projecting that on me when I was 12 years old and I was going through puberty. So, when I started growing hips and breasts, she put me on diets. She put me on diet after diet and that messed with my mindset and my metabolism because I was constantly being told by her that I was fat when I wasn’t. I was athletic.

But she put me on the Dr. Bernstein diet and that was my first introduction to ketosis. I’d have to go visit Dr. Bernstein in Toronto 3 times a week and they’d weigh me. He’d yell at me and here I am, I’m 15 or 16 at the time, I think it was 16, and he would yell at me and say I didn’t lose enough weight because I’m supposed to lose a pound a week when I’m already an athlete and I don’t have a lot to lose to begin with. Like, I’ve got boobs and hips, what do you want? I’m a growing teenage girl. But back then, I really bought the idea that I was fat. Because my mom was telling me and the doctors were telling me, and I think Dr. Bernstein was just happy to keep collecting a paycheck. And then I rebelled against it and started eating the way I’ve never eaten in my life, which was how all my friends were eating, because I was just like, screw you guys, stop trying to control me because I was going through the teenage-hood, which in a sense is good because here I am and I got to learn from this experience. But I was also going to the dojo 4-5 days a week and I really looked up to the black belts. I started eating exactly how they were eating and they were eating not great. But I thought they must be eating great because they’re black belts. So I started eating processed food and subway sandwiches and stuff. I accelerated my sickness and became an out-of-control type 2 diabetic at that point. Then all the other things cascaded and I had chronic infections for which I needed monthly antibiotics for. 

I mean, that was very painful to be in so much pain that I needed antibiotics monthly. Then, just feeling horrible. It just went downhill. In my 20’s where you're supposed to be having the time of your life in 20’s, it was like being in a prison and I was crying myself to sleep every night. And I was struggling. It was really brutal. So, I know what it is to suffer. I know what it is to be so sick. You're just suffering. I never ever wanted to commit suicide, I never wanted to die. I wanted it to stop. I still loved life and I still had a lot of people I loved and I knew loved me. So, it wasn’t that. But I was so sick that I just felt like I was trapped in a prison. And I would cry to my husband and say “I just feel like I’m just trapped in this prison in a sick body,” because I feel like my spirit is healthy, my soul is healthy but I’m living in a sick body. Then, what happened was we just started watching these health documentaries and we learned to shop the perimeter of the grocery store, eat organic, and we just did one thing at a time and eventually, the first thing to go was the chronic infections. That's after shopping the perimeter of the grocery store. So, cutting out all the processed food and eating organic. Within 1 month, all the chronic infections went away. Surprise, surprise. You know, that was like oh, okay.

Then, it was hit or miss because I was learning from all these different people and not everything worked. Some things worked, some things didn’t. But I stumbled upon some really great mineral supplements and was told to cut out some bad foods and went gluten-free and saw that. I lost 25 pounds of inflammation of water weight in 1 month just cutting out the gluten grains. For me, that was a really big thing. Then I got to the point where I was no longer diabetic. At the time, I was like “Keto is the best, yeah, look at me I don’t have diabetes anymore.” This was about 6 years ago. But the problem was I couldn’t get my insulin resistance under control. It was still horrible insulin resistance and anytime I went off of this very controlled low-carb way of eating, it was just like I’d feel like a wreck. My blood sugar would be out of control and it was such a struggle.

Then, I tried the plant-based thing. I’m like, okay, well I’ve done everything else. That’s the thing you got to say to yourself. If what you're doing is getting this result and you don’t like this result, try a different thing. I tried over the 35 diets my entire life. At first, it was because my mom thought I was fat, right? So I was just going on with her diets. But then I actually created a lot of illness in my body so then it was then for me all these diets were chasing, trying to find the thing that helped. I loved the book, it was very cathartic for me to listen to the book Proteinaholic by Dr. Garth Davis. I really want to get him on the show because he said something in the first chapter, and I was just crying. He says you did not fail these diets; these diets failed you. Because their marketing is BS. And he proves, his entire book is proving to you that the science is not there. That these diets don’t have a leg to stand on. When you actually look at the science, these diets don’t have a leg to stand. This whole, like I said, Atkins, keto, and he goes down the list of every single diet I ever was on. I felt like a failure, I felt like there's something wrong with me. I started thinking maybe I have like some hidden trauma or like I was trying to think what was going on in my mind. Maybe I’m secretly sabotaging myself or what is it. All the while, these diets are smoke. They’re fraud. They're just smoke and mirrors. And it’s all marketing. In the long term they do not heal the body on the cellular level and they do not increase insulin sensitivity.

So, the first few weeks, and I don’t exactly remember and I could probably go back because I actually went down to this plant-based convention down in Seattle and I think we got a babysitter, I think we got the grandparents to watch our son. He was pretty young. We went down there and it was like a day date for us. There was a booth there that was checking blood sugar and I had eaten maybe an hour before and I was eating whole food plant-based so I know I was eating a ton of carbs. And I was terrified of carbs. I spent my entire life being afraid of carbs. My mom, once I ordered fish with a side of vegetables and rice and she stood up in the restaurant and screamed at me. And I was a teenager. She screamed at me because there was rice on my plate and she was so angry at me that I would eat rice. So, I was raised in an environment where you would be screamed at if you ate carbohydrates because that’s how bad they are for you. This is the brainwashing that I went through and so many people are brainwashed by the Atkins diet and the keto and all the influencers out there who look like ripped and look like a million bucks telling you that if you eat rice or if you eat mashed potatoes or something, that it’s bad for you. And so, I had been eating high, high, high carbohydrate but again, it was all plant-based and she took my blood sugar. Like I said, I had eaten about an hour before. I hadn’t exactly looked at the time but I knew it was recent. And it was 87. And I burst into tears, I had never seen my blood sugar under 115. Since I had been testing it, I had never seen it below 115. And it was 87. I’ve never been lower than 115 ever even in fasting. First of all, I don’t wake up feeling like I drank a bottle of tequila and got hit like a back truck the night before. Because that's how I used to feel waking up every night if I ate carbs. Because it was like if I ate a pizza, right? So there's carbs in there but there's like a lot of fat, which is what causes the insulin resistance as you're explaining.

And I’d always feel like I was waking up from a night of binge drinking, which I don’t drink alcohol, but like imagine a hangover. It was a sugar hangover. And yet, those few weeks that I had been eating a whole food plant-based diet with no oil, no added fat, no processed fat, I didn’t wake up that way. In fact, I woke up jumping out of bed, tons of energy and just feeling great and even keel the whole day. So I’m like, wait a second, what’s going on? But seeing those numbers, seeing my glucose, and it was funny because all those people there are the booth were like, “Aw! Are you okay?” I’m like, oh my God, I’m so happy, because I’m crying and they're like, “Oh no, what’s wrong?” Like, “No, I’m so happy.” I had never seen that low number. And that was the big a-ha. I’m like okay, there's something going on here. And I didn’t realize at the time that how could you, because I thought it took years to heal insulin resistance. Years. I didn’t realize it was within days that you can have it restored. Within days. So, for me, it’s been just hugely rewarding and cathartic because I’ve been processing and healing my entire childhood and the trauma around food and the belief system. You really have to look at your belief system around food. Because we are rooted so deeply in, well, this is how I was taught to eat, this is how we eat because we’re celebrating, and this is what we eat because we’re sad. We have to look at food and our belief system because we need to change something. If you're sick and suffering, there needs to be some changes because if you keep doing it, you're going to keep getting what you're getting. I had to make some major changes.

Now, I can cook a Thanksgiving meal that is delicious and plant-based and super amazing. I did a dry run last week and I can make a pumpkin pie. I can make this amazing Shepherd’s pie like a lentil loaf Shepherd’s pie that is out of this world and I fed it to someone who isn’t plant-based and they thought it was delicious. You can make really delicious meals. It does take practice. You can saute with that oil which was mind-blowing to me. But yeah, switching this way very quickly, I noticed that my insulin resistance came back online.

So, I want you to dive into the “why”. Why is it that when you cut out oil and animal fat, so you cut out animal products and you cut out oil and you just eat as many plants as you want, what does that make your insulin sensitivity happen? 

[00:54:50] Cyrus Khambatta: There's a lot of science here that we can talk about. So, going back to what I was saying earlier is that the world operates under this paradigm that the thing that causes diabetes and high blood glucose and high insulin is carbohydrate. It is a true statement that when you consume carbohydrate energy in food, that it elicits and insulin release from the beta cells in your pancreas. So, from a biological perspective, it’s a true statement. 

But what people have to understand in the sort of biology I’m going to describe here is that the amount of insulin inside of your blood at any given moment in time and the amount of glucose inside of your blood at any given moment in time are functions of multiple things. You cannot minimize all of the influences and all of the nutrients in your diet and all of the daily habits that you may or may not have. You can’t minimize all of that into one thing and one thing only and say “Oh, that’s the reason why I have diabetes. That's the reason why my insulin level is high.” Okay? So, in other words, chronic disease is multifactorial. Once we understand this, then we start to recognize that the amount of fat that you eat matters. The amount of carbohydrate that you eat matters. The amount of protein that you eat matters. The amount of fiber that you eat matters. The amount of water that you drink matters. The amount of exercise that you perform matters. The amount of intermittent fasting you perform matters. All of these things matter and they each have a very specific role in regulating your blood glucose and your insulin, and the goal for any individual is to try and identify how can I manipulate my fat intake to my advantage. How can I manipulate my fiber intake to my advantage? How can I manipulate my exercise to my advantage? If you start to have 5, 6, 7, or 8 different things in your lifestyle that are to your advantage, then the chances are you’re going to become a very, very optimally healthy person today and also into the future. 

So, if we are willing to accept the premise that diabetes is more than just carbohydrate, we have to ask ourselves what other components of your diet are affecting your blood glucose and insulin use. So, in order to answer that question, again, we got to go back to the research and try and take a look on what the research world knows. So, what I said earlier was that the research world knows that eating a diet that is high in saturated fat will induce insulin resistance in as little as 8 weeks in laboratory animals and even faster in human beings. The reason that that happens is because when you eat a diet that contains a significant amount of fat which is very common in the low carbohydrate world, it’s very common in the ketogenic world, it’s very common in the paleo world. In fact, they encourage you to eat a lot of fat. A lot of the fat that they encourage you to eat is actually saturated fat that comes from animal products like red meat, white meat, like dairy products, like processed meats and also eggs. When you’re consuming these types of foods, the type of fat that you're putting into your mouth is predominantly saturated but most importantly, it comes locked up in a form called a triglyceride. Triglyceride is basically just a fancy super nerd way of describing way the storage form of that fat in nature. The storage form of fat is called a triglyceride simply because tri means three and glyceride means glycerol. So what happens is that you have three fatty acids that are covalently bound to a glycerol molecule. Okay? Don’t worry, that's not going to be on the test. But the idea here is that you got a glycerol backbone with three fatty acids. You consume triglycerides, that's the predominant source of fat in food and you consume the triglycerides, they travel down your esophagus, they go down into your stomach. Inside of your stomach there’s hydrochloric acid that’s secreted by the walls of your stomach that's there to sort of start to unfold protein and unfold these fatty acids or unfold the triglyceride molecule and unfold carbohydrate as well. 

Finally, the next chamber is called your small intestine. Your small intestine is where the bulk of all the nutrient digestion and absorption takes place. So your small intestine is a chamber in which your multiple tissues secrete digestive enzymes. These tissues that secrete digestive enzymes include your liver, your pancreas and your small intestine. So all three of them have responsibilities to make things called lipases and proteases and carbohydrases and elastases and beyond. There's literally hundreds of different types of -ases and -ase basically refers to an enzyme. An enzyme is required in order to do some biological work to try and cut large molecules into smaller pieces. The triglyceride molecule in particular gets cut multiple times. The three fatty acids that are bound to glycerol basically get released from the glycerol molecule. Glycerol basically goes on to have a whole collection of effects. But the three fatty acids are then absorbed through the walls of your small intestine. They get put into these little spaceships called chylomicron particles. The chylomicron particles then circulate through your lymph system and then eventually into your blood. And these chylomicron particles, there's billions, if not trillions of them. They have one mission. Their one mission is to basically take the fatty acids that came in from your food and distribute them to tissues to put them somewhere. 

These chylomicron particles become very numerous right after you eat a meal because they basically take on a lot of cargo from the food that you just ate and they’re there to try and deliver those fatty acids to tissues. So, what are the tissues that they're going to try and choose to deliver these fatty acids to?

Number one, your adipose tissue which is your fat tissue. This is actually a safe place to put fatty acids because from a mechanical perspective and from an enzymatic perspective, your adipose tissue is literally perfectly designed to absorb food from your blood when it is present. Most people think of your adipose tissue, your fat tissue as basically being this bad tissue. I hate fat because I don’t like the way it looks and it’s in my abdomen, it’s in my butt and it’s in my chest and it’s my armpits and it makes me look overweight. The reason for that is because there's excess fat that is being put into those tissues or put into that tissue. But in a normal metabolic situation where there isn’t an excess amount of fatty acids coming in, those fatty acids are supposed to go into your fat tissue. That's literally their home. So, you put those fatty acids inside of the fat tissue exactly where they're supposed to belong. But if you're eating a high fat diet, there is also a spillover. The spillover means that there are some fatty acids that get directed outside of your fat tissue to other tissues. Well, what are those other tissues? 

Number one, your liver. Number two, your muscle. The spillover of excess fatty acids that come in from a high fat diet end up going inside of your liver and inside of your muscle. That's okay as long as the amount of fat that goes inside of your liver and muscle after a meal is a small amount. Because your liver and muscle are specifically designed to be able to absorb fatty acids from the chylomicron particles when it’s present in small quantities. They absorb those fatty acids and they stick them into this thing called a lipid droplet, and the lipid droplet has a physical location and the present inside of muscle and inside of your liver, so everything is fine. No problems at all. 

The problem is that when you consume a diet that is low in carbohydrate aka high in fat, you end up overconsuming fat which puts a significant amount of fat inside of your adipose tissue and then the spillover inside of your liver or into your liver and into your muscle is greater than what they are designed to be able to absorb at any moment in time. So within a short period of time, if you eat one high-fat meal and then another high-fat meal, and then another high-fat meal, and then another high-fat meal, you end up overwhelming your liver and muscle with too much fatty acid and as a result of that, the lipid droplet inside of both of these tissues ends up becoming larger and larger and larger. 

If you look at the research and try and figure out, well, what happens to a call inside of your liver? What happens to a cell inside of your muscle when it over accumulates fatty acids? What you’ll find is that there’s these very complicated scientific terms that are used to describe it. Number one, they refer to it as intramyocellular lipid deposition. What the heck does that mean? Intramyocellular refers to intra means inside, myo refers to muscle, cellular means in the cellular environment. So, intramyocellular means inside of the muscle tissue. So, intramyocellular lipid accumulation means putting lipid or putting fatty acids inside of the muscle tissue. If you look at it from the liver perspective, it’s called intrahepatic triglyceride. IHTG. Meaning putting fatty acids inside of the liver aka the hepatocyte. So, the research demonstrates that when there is intrahepatic triglyceride accumulation and intramyocellular lipid accumulation, that the first thing that those two tissues do is they go whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Where did all this stuff come from? I didn’t ask for this. This is beyond my biological design. Why is there so much lipid coming inside of me? So, they initiate a self-defense mechanism to try and block more lipid from coming in. And try and block amino acids from protein and glucose from carbohydrate at the same time. 

The simplest thing that these cells can do in order to initiate so it protects themselves against the overaccumulation of more energy which is really what they're trying to block, the simplest thing that they can do is they can basically tell the insulin receptors on the plasma membrane to become less functional. What the cell does is it initiates this program known as insulin resistance or insulin rejection so that it can block insulin from signaling. Because it makes perfect sense. Insulin is a signaling molecule. Insulin’s job is to knock on the door and go “Knock, knock.” There's glucose in the blood, there's amino acids in the blood, would you like to take it up? The cell can respond by either saying “Sure, sounds like a plan. Why don’t you go ahead and put it inside? I’m going to open my doors to glucose and I’m going to open my doors to amino acids, put it inside of me.” 

But if these cells are suffering from a high energy environment and they don’t want any more energy, then it makes sense to try and block insulin because the next time insulin comes and knocks on the door, it goes “Knock, knock. I got glucose and amino acids in the blood. What do you want to do?” these two tissues can respond by saying “No, no, no, I’m closed for business. Thank you very much. I have a whole bunch of lipid inside of me, let me go deal with this lipid stuff first.” So that’s what they do. They initiate a self-defense mechanism aka insulin resistance so that the next time you as an individual go eat something that contains any amount of carbohydrate, literally one banana that contains something like 20 grams of carbohydrate or maybe an orange or maybe a bowl of black beans or maybe a bowl of quinoa, something that doesn’t have that much carbohydrate energy, insulin goes “Knock, knock, there's glucose in the blood. Would you like to take it up?” and both of these tissues respond by saying “No, no, no, I don’t have room for you right now. It’s not time.”

What ends up happening is that this metabolic traffic jam that has been created by an excess deposition of saturated fat ends up decreasing insulin signaling inside of your liver and insulin signaling inside of your muscle. That then results in two problems. Number one, glucose gets trapped. Glucose cannot get inside of your liver and muscle as effectively as it used to before because both of those tissues are saying no, you don’t have a time and you don’t have a place to get in here right now.

Number two, insulin who’s knocking on the door saying “Hey, open up, open up, open up,” insulin literally cannot even dock onto its insulin receptor and as a result of that, insulin accumulates inside of the blood. So now you have both glucose and insulin that are trapped inside of the blood accumulating in high concentrations. What that means is that if you eat yourself into an insulin-resistant state and then you follow that up by eating a banana or a bowl of black beans or anything with carbohydrate, then your blood glucose goes high within an hour or two hours of eating that meal. You look at your blood glucose meter and you go, “Damn it! I told you. I told you I can’t eat carbohydrates because carbohydrates are bad for me. Potatoes are bad for me. Bananas are bad for me.” And I can prove it to you because I just ate 1 banana and now my blood glucose is high. So what that means is that I’m not going to eat any more bananas because carbs are bad. Atkins was right, the paleo diet is right, the ketogenic diet is right. All of these carbohydrates are bad for me. So then, people shy away from eating more carbohydrate energy and they go and they eat more fat-rich foods and more saturated fat, and they make the problem worse. Okay? What they're doing is they're blaming the carbohydrate. They’re blaming the banana and the potato and the black beans and the quinoa and they're saying, “Look, I can’t any more of you because when I do, my glucose goes high.” But what they don’t realize is that those are just the messengers. Those are just the secondary effect of the metabolic traffic jam that began by consuming too much lipid to begin with. 

If you can clear out that traffic jam and get rid of that excess lipid deposition inside of your liver and muscle, then those two tissues aren’t forced to create a self-defense mechanism, then the next time you go eat something that's carbohydrate-rich and insulin comes and knocks on the door and says “Knock, knock, I got glucose and amino acids in the blood. Do you want to take it up?” both of these tissues respond by saying, “Sure! Give it to me. I’ve been looking for this stuff. Put it inside of me. Game on.” Does this make sense at all?

[01:09:46] Ashley James: Absolutely. It makes sense to me. We have a dance between insulin and glucose. We have been told since we were kids by the media that sugar is the problem, so stop eating sugar and by the way, all these plants contain sugar carbohydrates, so these are the problems. I mean, donuts, they contain sugar too. They're the problem but I think there's more fat in a donut than there is even sugar. 

[01:10:12] Cyrus Khambatta: Correct.

[01:10:13] Ashley James: Which is crazy because you think donuts are all sugary. I mean, they're both. They’re both not healthy in many ways. But the point is, is that we’re told sugar is the problem, sugar is the problem. Diabetes is a blood sugar problem. Sugar is the problem, stop eating sugar. Well, what do you have left? Well, you’ve got protein and fat. Then we turn to the keto diet and Atkins diet and all that stuff.

I did Atkins several times. The reason why I kept doing all these different diets, I’d get to the point where I do a diet between 1 and 3 months and I would feel good at first and then I would become sicker and sicker and I become worse on the diet. I have to eventually stop because I was so sick, the diets would make me so sick. So, I remember the last time I did keto diet was actually with a doctor or the naturopathic physician. I came into her office weekly. This was about 6 years ago, closer to 7 years ago now, and they did a DEXA scan to monitor how much fat to muscle to bone tissue there was because they didn’t want us to lose bone mass or muscle mass while we were doing this keto diet. It was a doctor-instructed ketogenic diet where we were eating like it was stricter than Atkins, less than 20 grams of carbs, and lots of animal fat and lots of protein, which you can’t eat too much protein because then the liver is going to convert it to blood sugar by gluconeogenesis. 

So, we were doing exactly what the doctor told us to do. First few days, I feel good maybe because I had cut out some processed food that snuck into my lifestyle, which is why I think a lot of people end up feeling good originally on these diets because they're cutting out the donuts, they're cutting out maybe the highly processed flour grains and all the stuff that comes with it. So they're cutting out some stuff that was proinflammatory. But then I started to feel worse and worse and worse, and eventually, what happened was after three months of being on this program, my liver became so inflamed that you could actually see my liver pushed beyond my ribcage. I couldn’t sleep on my right-hand side. I went for an ultrasound. My blood work showed my liver enzymes were through the roof and I went for an ultrasound. My doctor was like, “I really am curious to do a biopsy.” But I’m like, nope, no, you are not sticking that needle in me. But I did go for an ultrasound and they said this is not fatty liver, there is no fatty liver detected. It’s just angry. Your liver is completely inflamed and angry. They couldn’t figure out anything wrong with it other than it was very inflamed. My husband who luckily we got him tested because while I was like wow, this ketogenic diet really messed my liver up, it really messed me up, and then we got him tested and they’d actually damaged his kidneys and was causing massive kidney damage. We were concerned because it was like almost borderline kidney failure and he is otherwise a very healthy person. But he did a bunch of tests and then luckily, very soon after that, we actually discovered the whole food plant-based diet. Believe it or not, I didn’t really know that this was a thing. I knew what a vegetarian diet was or a vegan diet, but I didn’t understand that there's this whole other realm which the whole food plant-based, no oil, salt, sugar, this very clean way of eating. It was introduced to me through a guest I had on the show. 

So, we adapted it and my husband was 100 percent onboard which was crazy to me because of how much of a big meat eater he was. I kind of went kicking and screaming because what I now understand is food addiction, and 1/3 of the population has addiction brain. You have to face that. If you know that you're like, wait a second, I can’t give up my __, if that's the conversation you're having, you go like “I can’t give up my donuts, I can’t give up my pasta or my meatballs,” whatever it is, if there's a voice in your brain saying “I can’t give up my cheese or whatever,” you have addiction brain. That's something you need to heal and work on because that's holding you back and keeping you sick. Is it really worth it? Is a moment on the lips worth the illness? I did go kicking and screaming and I finally gave up 100 percent of the animal products just as an experiment. Okay, I can do this, I can do this experiment. I actually never had one day, in my entire life I never had one day that I hadn’t eaten an animal product. 

I remember my first day, I was expecting to feel tired because I was told protein gives you energy, which is not physiologically what happens at all. And you can explain that. But we’re told that you need protein for energy. “Protein” meaning you need to eat eggs, you need to eat cheese, you need to drink dairy, you need to eat animal flesh to have muscles and have energy and feel strong. So, the first day of eating this way, I couldn’t believe how like wait a second, I feel good, what’s going on? Because I had been on and off Atkins for over 20 years. Also, I had to face that fear of carbohydrates. But I felt really good. So that keto, coming up against that idea that eating fat is what’s good for you and the carbs are what’s bad for you and then having to go wait a second, we’ve been lied to, it’s actually completely the opposite, and Cyrus can explain why. But what the doctors were impressed by though by using the whole food plant-based diet, my husband healed his kidney and I healed my liver so fast. The naturopaths were very impressed with how quickly our bodies recovered and healed from the damage the ketogenic diet did using the whole food plant-based diet.

[01:16:20] Cyrus Khambatta: That’s amazing. It’s funny how I think the commonality between what you experienced and what I experienced is that the speed at which your liver can improve, the speed at which your insulin sensitivity can improve, the speed at which your overall energy levels can improve is very, very fast. It doesn’t actually have to take weeks or months necessarily. You can start to see the improvements within a very short period of time and then that right there can reverse or begin the process of reversing years and years and years of damage.

[01:16:55] Ashley James: Now, did you get to tell us how you met Robby and how you formed this alliance together where you're teaching people how to do Mastering Diabetes? What I want to say though is that if listeners go back to episode 233 and episode 489, Robby explains exactly how your program works and how to eat this way. He really goes into great detail in episode 489. Those links to those episodes will be in the show notes as well because I definitely want listeners to go back and listen to that. But what I want to understand from you because you have so much with the science, I mean, I want to know all the stories and I’d love to talk to you for hours, and I know you're pressed for time, so what I want us to learn from you is how is it that there are some people out there like the influencers who are eating this incredibly high fat diet and they're ripped and they keep taking pictures of themselves in the gym and they keep showing how they're drinking ketones and drinking MCT oil and they don’t gain weight. We’re told “Oh, you don’t gain weight when you eat fat. Fat that you eat doesn’t become fat. Carbohydrates that you eat become fat.” 

And yet, what I learned from Dr. McDougall, he says, you know, if you eat potatoes and you don’t add like let’s say butter, olive oil, or sour cream, if you don’t add any fat to potatoes and you eat an excessive like let’s say you eat 5000 calories of potatoes and your body only burns 2000 calories, let’s just say, your body is not going to take that excessive 3000 calories and convert it to fat and store it as energy. It actually converts it to heat. When I read that, it blew my mind because I had noticed. Our house is 66 degrees Fahrenheit. I don’t like spending money on heating. But we’re all warm. We’re all just wearing extra layer. But I go around barefoot now and our house is cold. We keep our house cold and I am hot all the time ever since switching to a high-carbohydrate low-fat diet. When I read that, I was like oh my gosh, this makes sense, because I used to be the person that had to wear microwave slippers because my feet were always so cold and ever since eating this way, my body’s just pumping out heat and it’s not gaining weight from eating any kind of excessive amount if I happen to eat more carbohydrates. It doesn’t convert to fat. Can you explain that? Why is it that what we see in the media, we see that eating high fat doesn’t convert to fat because we see these like ripped bodies in the influencers, and yet, what you're telling is is the physiology is when we eat excessive fat, it gets stored in the adipose tissue and when we eat carbohydrates without fat present in the diet, we don’t store it as fat. 

[01:19:46] Cyrus Khambatta: So when you're consuming a diet that's high in fat, what I don’t want people to think of is that “Oh, Cyrus told me that if I’m eating a lot of fat, then all of a sudden I’m going to become fat.” Because that can happen. But in order to determine whether or not you're going to become fat, you have to take a look at your overall energy balance. So your energy balance is basically what is the total number of calories that you're consuming from your food and how does that relate to the total number of calories that you are burning on a daily basis or that you are getting rid of on a daily basis through your basal metabolic rate plus your activity level plus the thermic effect of food, the amount of heat that's being dissipated from the calories that you're consuming. 

We’re going to have to go into a lot of fancy detail in order to really understand what all that means. But the idea here is let’s say that there is some random person who claims that eating a ketogenic diet is an ideal solution for their body. So, they’re a normal weight individual. They might be a 175 pounds. They might look good, they might go to the gym on a daily basis. They might be ripped. You might look at them and be like “Damn, you're clearly doing something right.” So that individual, if they're not gaining any weight on a daily basis and they're completely weight neutral or preventing themselves from gaining weight over the course of time, what that means is that they're in energy balance. So, the amount of energy that they're taking in on a daily basis is roughly equal to the amount of energy that they're expending and that's actually a good thing, so I would say great, I’ll give you a high five, my hat goes off to you.

So, being in energy balance is a good thing because it’s going to prevent against the accumulation of weight over the course of time or the accumulation of mass over the course of time. But just because you are weight neutral does not mean that you are living in an insulin sensitive state. Okay? So, we have to decouple the two of those because you could be living in an energy-neutral position and preventing yourself from gaining weight over the course of time but if you are eating a high fat diet, then that means that likely, you are in an insulin-resistant state. So, you are in an insulin-resistant state, your liver and muscle are over accumulating fat as we talked about earlier and as a result of that, insulin signaling is not working very effectively inside of both of those tissues. Okay? So it becomes this sort of confusing picture because on one hand, you're saying, well, you're not gaining weight, so then what’s the problem, Cyrus? It doesn’t really make any sense. And I could say okay, fine. Just because you're not gaining weight does not necessarily mean that you're in a healthy metabolic situation, okay? You can take two individuals that are both weight stable and one of them could be in a highly insulin sensitive state because they're eating a low-fat diet and the other individual can be a highly insulin-resistant state because they’re eating a low-carbohydrate diet. Both of them could look good from the outside, both of them could be weight stable from the outside, both of them could actually have a low A1C and a low blood glucose and a low blood pressure but yet one of them is highly insulin-resistant and the other one is highly insulin-sensitive. 

What that means is that if you fast forward over the course of time, each of them is going to have a slightly different chronic disease risk into the future. The person that’s living in an insulin resistant state because they're eating a low carbohydrate diet is going to be at an advanced risk or a higher risk for the development of many chronic diseases including heart disease and cancer in particular. The person who is in an insulin sensitive state is going to be at a low risk for the development of chronic diseases including cancer and heart disease. So, we have to add time as a variable because the amount of time that you are consuming food in an insulin-resistant state or the amount of time that you are consuming food in an insulin-sensitive state is a very, very, very important factor into understanding what is your chronic disease risk is going to be like into the future. This is something that I think most people just don’t understand. They’re not willing to understand it, it doesn’t compute in their brain. Which is that if I look good today and if I am normal weight today and if my glucose level is low today and my insulin level is low today and my cholesterol level was low and my blood pressure is low today, does that mean that I’m doing everything right? My answer to you would be well, it may suggest that but it may not also suggest that because the research demonstrates that people who are eating a diet that’s higher in saturated fat and higher actually in animal-based protein over the course of time are at an advanced risk for many chronic diseases. It’s really important that we understand that what you're doing today is important, but what you're doing today and how it’s going to influence your risk for many metabolic diseases into the future is more important and that’s what I really care about in the long term. Does that make sense?

[01:25:11] Ashley James: Absolutely. In your book Mastering Diabetes, is that everything that we need to know, if we read that book and do what it says, is that everything that we need to know for type 2, so no longer have diabetes or type 1’s to be able to get their insulin to carb ratio at a really good rate, and reverse these diseases and prevent these diseases. Is that everything we need to know in that book?

[01:25:35] Cyrus Khambatta: Yeah. So effectively, Mastering Diabetes is a book that we have written that took 3 years to write and has been out for two years now and has really shaped, changed the way that so many people think, that book is not only a prescription for becoming an insulin sensitive individual. What it is truly is a prescription for lowering your overall chronic disease risk. And if you can think of it from that perspective, then what you're going to learn is a way, a system that’s going to lower your blood glucose today and lower your insulin use today and lower your body weight today. But if you again multiply that times time then it’s going to lower your overall chronic disease risk tomorrow and 5 years into the future, and that's a really good thing because I want you to live in an optimal metabolic state today, but I also want that to continue to unfold 5, 10, 15, 20 years into the future. Up to this point, I have not found a way of eating that is more powerful than a plant-based diet at improving your current metabolic state and improving your metabolic state into the future. I simply haven’t found anything that’s more powerful. 

[01:27:01] Ashley James: I love it. There are so many athletes who are doing this and they're winning gold medals. It improves immediately. They're seeing that when they switch this way, that there are improved outcomes. To watch someone who’s an athlete hone their body as a tool and then they see that they're able to run longer, they’re able to do whatever they do longer and they're able to recover faster, we can see that in them. Even though we might not be pro athletes, we do the same thing and then we see that we get similar results. We’re just able to go longer and recover faster and feel better. If you’ve ever been around older relatives and watched them passed away too early and suffer too many years from a disease that was preventable, as I have, you don’t want that for yourself. You don’t want that for your spouse. You don’t want that for your children. And we have to do something different from the masses to not be a statistic. 1 in 3 to 1 in 4 people depending on whether you're male or female will have a cancer diagnosis in their lifetime. 1 in 3 people is obese, is pre-diabetic, or is diabetic. It is a huge juggernaut that we’re facing. If you want to be a statistic, keep going to Krispy Kreme. Keep going to Starbucks. Keep going to the McDonald’s. Just keep eating the way everyone is eating. Just keep doing what everyone is doing to do whatever your doctor says and you will end up as a statistic. But if you want to be an outlier, you have to do something different from everyone else, and that definitely takes that mental switch. I highly encourage listeners go to, get the book, check it out. Give it as Christmas gifts or Hannukah gifts or holiday gifts, whatever. Give it as birthday gifts. Give this book out. Encourage your friends and family to listen to this episode. If you’d rather consume videos and video interviews as I love, go to and check out their summit, and purchase that, show it to your friends and family. This is something that we can make a difference. We can turn this ripple into a tidal wave and help so many people. If you throw a stone, you're going to hit someone with type 2 diabetes. I can’t believe how many people I know have type 2 diabetes or on metformin or insulin. I had a friend who is in and out of the hospital for a year and the doctors couldn’t figure out why. Actually, I was the one that figured out why. My friend was suffering from chronic acute pancreatitis. She was living in the hospital more than living at home for a year. Could only consume liquids and was so sick, in so much pain and I was like, “just tell me everything you're taking. What’s going on?” I listened to all her meds and I went and looked on the drug website, the actual pharmaceutical manufacturer’s website and I saw that pancreatitis can be caused by metformin. She wasn’t even diabetic. Her doctor had her on metformin as a preventive which just boggles my mind. I said, listen, ask your doctors to get you off of this. She did and the pancreatitis went away. I’m like, geez, that wasted a year of her life of suffering, in needless suffering. How many people are needlessly suffering because they’re blindly listening to their doctor and blindly eating how everyone else eats just because that's how everyone else does. Don’t be a sheep. Don’t be a lemming. If you don’t like how your health is now, get this book and change your life. Just try. Try it for a week.

Within days, you feel a difference. How many days would you say, Cyrus, does it take for even the worst of insulin resistances to kind of come back online and for people to start noticing a difference? Would you say giving it a full week, would they start to see a difference? Giving it a month or three days? How long would it take before they start feeling a difference? 

[01:30:50] Cyrus Khambatta: I like the term that you use which is coming back online. I love that. What it makes you realize is that reversing insulin resistance is a long-term metabolic change that has to happen and it’s going to unfold over the course of many months to many years. Literally, it’s a never-ending process. You can always become more insulin sensitive and you can do it by continuing to eat a plant-based diet and continuing to exercise and continuing to intermittent fast over the course of time. But the question really becomes, well, how quickly can you start to see the effects? How quickly can you go online. And the answer is, in my situation, I saw it within 24 hours. I’ve talked to so many people that have seen the same thing happen within 24-48 hours. So, I would say worst-case scenario, you’ll feel the effects within 7 to 10 days. But chances are, you're going to feel it a lot quicker. 

[01:31:42] Ashley James: So just give it a try. It’s like you're doing a detox or a cleanse. Just do it. Just try it. Going to that restaurant because that friend or family member wants you to eat that way, is that really worth your health? Is that really worth sick and suffering and having limbs? People will have limbs amputated, will lose their eyesight, like will have heart attacks or strokes when they're way too young because of this issue, this very issue. You could just say I’m just going to say no, I’m just going to try for 7 days, just give it a try. Get the book. All the links are in the show notes today. Just get the book or watch the videos. Try it. See how you feel. The jury is out. Just try it for yourself. See how you feel, maybe test your blood sugars now and test them after a week of doing it. Just see how you feel.

I can’t convey how good it feels. The hardest thing is all in your head. The hardest thing is the mental shift. It’s actually easy to cook this way, easy to eat this way. The hardest thing is the mental shift. Once you're sold on it, you just have to enforce healthy boundaries with those around you because people are addicted to food and they're going to want to try to suck you back and just like alcoholics when they get you to drink with them. They're going to try to suck you back into their Krispy Kreme or whatever. And if you say listen, I’m on a health journey right now and I love you and you can eat that way, but I’m going to eat this way, and just try it. 

Cyrus, I’d love to have you back on. Thank you so much for coming on. I’d love to have you back on. I’d love for you to share more. We didn’t even get to talk about stories of success. You’ve helped thousands of people. You and Robby. Robby talks about more in episode 233, but you guys have helped so many people and done one-on-one’s and done group coaching where you’ve guided people through this and had outstanding results. We’ve been told by the media you cannot reverse diabetes that you are stuck with it, that you have to “manage” it because the system is designed to keep you sick, to keep making a profit off of your sickness. You're here listening to this today because you don’t believe that crap and you want to get healthy and you’re sick of being sick. If you're sick of being sick and you want to feel amazing every morning, you want to feel like you're that 5-year-old again jumping out of bed, bouncing with energy and just loving life, try something different. Because what you’ve been doing isn’t working, so try this. 

Cyrus, thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s such a pleasure having you here. Really, please, come back on the show, share more stories of success, share more of the science. I know you're always diving in and learning more and sharing more, and I’d love to have you back. 

[01:34:17] Cyrus Khambatta: Thank you so much. I really appreciate the invitation to be here and I do hope that your listeners have learned a lot in this process. Truth be told, I’m happy we can come on here and we can talk over and over again and do more episodes in the future because the message is very important and what I’m trying to do is provide as much clarity as possible so that people can really transform their lives using the power of a plant-based diet. Thank you so much for all that you do. I know you’ve been podcasting for a very long time and you’ve changed the lives of thousands of people. We’re on the same team. And I’m here for you and I’m hoping to do whatever I can to continue to relay this message and have you on my team as we do so into the future.

[01:34:59] Ashley James: Love it. Thank you so much.


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491: UFC World Champion’s Secret To Maximize Endurance and Improve Body Performance, Pat Miletich

There are countless supplements you can take for endurance and performance. There are even more supplements you can take for recovery. But on today’s podcast episode with UFC World Champion Pat Miletich, we discuss one supplement that can do all these things at once: the fulvic humics. We also talk about the science behind it, fulvic humic trace mineral absorption and uptake, maximizing endurance, recovery, and energy production, plus so much more!



  • Where fulvic humic acids are derived from
  • Terra preta soil
  • Super Soldier Black Gold Oxygen Booster 
  • How many capsules to take
  • Studies done on how fulvic humics help with mitochondrial function
  • Why you should care about farming practices
  • How metals are converted to organic
  • Effects of atrazine


Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. We have on the show today a UFC World Champion and highly successful MMA trainer. He has won many awards. He’s in the UFC Hall of Fame, and he’s gone on to train other athletes in the mixed martial arts realm to go on and become amazingly successful and well-accomplished UFC fighters as well. Pat Miletich is here on the show today. I’m excited for you to hear this because he struggled for many years his entire childhood with health issues, with lung issues, with mold. And he overcame them. He figured out how to dial in his body. I love learning from elite athletes who’ve had to overcome something. And I’m not expecting all of us. Like, I don’t want to become an elite athlete, but I want to be the healthiest I can be, right? So, we can learn from those who are absolute excellence, who have figured out how to master something and create absolute excellence. His body is a finely tuned machine. So, he’s figured out, and he’s gone on to help many other athletes do the same and reproduce the same results. He’s here today to share some of the things that has really made a difference, including this very specific fulvic humic probiotic trace mineral supplement. It’s all natural from the earth. It’s unique in many ways. That's why it’s so exciting because it does things that hugely increase oxygen in the cells and help mitochondrial function, and we’re seeing some really, really great results.

In the interview, I mention a link where you can go purchase this. You can go to But before you do, I want to make sure that you get the discount because I love saving money and I want to save you money too. When you go to, you have right there on the homepage there,, put in your name and email address and you’re going to be given a $10 discount as well as a 30-minute free health coach strategy session and also a fantastic e-book on the foundations of holistic health. So, great gifts to get. But definitely want to make sure that you get that extra $10 off, and of course, always use coupon code LTH on any of the websites. Because every time I have a guest on, I ask them, “Hey, if you have the ability to on your website, if they're selling something, can they include a discount for the listener?” And often, I end up getting a great discount for you guys. So, LTH is the discount code for most of the time when I have guests on. Always try that code, of course. But make sure you go to and put in your name and email address to get that $10 gift card, and then go to after listening to this episode if you want to try the fulvic humic acid supplement that has a natural probiotic from the earth. It’s really fascinating.

Well, just listen to the episode. You’ll see what I’m talking about. Enjoy today’s episode. Those links are going to be in the show notes of this podcast. So, just go down the description in the show notes wherever you're listening from. And you should be able to see those links there. You could, of course, always jump into the Learn True Health Facebook group. We have over 5000 listeners in that group, and it’s very active, wonderfully supportive holistic community of listeners. A lot of our guests also are there answering questions along with me. You know what I love? I love learning from other listeners, and we’re all just sharing together. So, it’s a wonderfully supportive community. If you do decide to try this humic fulvic probiotic supplement, definitely jump in the Learn True Health Facebook group and start a chat about it. Let’s talk about your results. I’d love to hear from other listeners as you guys add this to your healing journey. If you have any questions for Pat, you can always jump in the Facebook group also because I have his ear and I can always ask him for you guys. And that goes for any of our guests. If you ever have a question for them after an episode, you can jump in the Learn True Health Facebook group and ask. I can always reach out to them if you have anything, and an episode was like “Hey, what about this?” or “Now, I’m struggling with this. What do you think they would say about that?” I can always reach out to a guest. I can have them back on the show to answer your questions or I can just ask for you and then answer in the Learn True Health Facebook group. The Learn True Health Facebook group is about supporting each other in our healing journey. It’s dynamic, it’s always changing and wonderful questions are coming up and so many people are helping, and we can just pull from all the information. If you have any questions after listening to an episode, for sure jump in the Facebook group and ask. Let’s keep supporting each other and learning from each other. Excellent. And thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about, especially athletes that you know. I think they would appreciate learning from elite athletes on how to hone in their health. But also, share this with anyone who has energy issues, who’s tired or fatigued all the time and really wants to get on the other side of that and no longer struggle with energy because anything that has to do with mitochondrial health and healing is going to be something you're going to want to share with them. first and make sure you put in your email address and name to get that $10 discount code and then go to to try the fulvic humic probiotic supplement that Pat is going to talk about today in addition to all the other stuff we talk about. Enjoy today’s show, and have yourself a fantastic rest of your day!

[00:06:01] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 491.

I am so excited for today’s guest. We have on the show Pat Miletich who I’m just going to let you tell your story because I’m in awe of what you have created out of everything that you’ve been doing, there’s a fulvic humic supplement that increases oxygen in the body and has had a tremendous effect on so many people’s lives. I am really excited just to jump in and hear the story of how you figured this out. So Pat, welcome to the show, and just jump in and tell your story so that we can catch up and understand what you were doing in your life that made you want to find this and figure it out. Then, we’re going to jump into what it does for the body.

[00:06:55] Pat Miletich: Thank you, Ashley. I appreciate you having me, number one, and I guess the best way for me to explain it is, so I was a very sick kid all the way into my 20's. Even though I was a pretty good athlete, I just couldn’t get to the very pinnacle of sports because I had such severely damaged respiratory system. And my mother’s basement had leaks in the foundation and every time, there would be three inches of water down there, and that's where my bedroom was. So, I lived in black mold for basically my entire life. Again, most people know me as former UFC Champ and UFC Hall of Famer and things like that. But it wasn’t until I was about ready to turn professional in kickboxing and I was giving it my best. I was training as hard as I could. You know, my wrestling matches in high school and college were me always never standing on the gas pedal because I was always worried about running out of gas. And running out of gas in a wrestling match can be kind of painful when you start getting thrown around because you can’t breathe.

So, a good friend of mine got me on some organic antioxidants, some capsules back in the day many, many years ago. I have a lot of really good antioxidants. I would spar a lot with really high-level professional boxers to work on my boxing skills. In 10 days, I went from sparring 3 to 4 rounds to about 10 rounds and feeling like I hadn’t even worked out. I felt like I went from breathing through a straw that was filled with mucus to breathing through a perfectly clear giant PVC tube. It took the inflammation out of my respiratory system, and now, all of a sudden, I’ve got endurance for days. And I went from struggling in my runs to running 16.5-minute 5K’s, got to where I was dunking a basketball, I’m only 5’10”, bench-pressing 375 pounds, and eventually, winning a UFC world title and held that for about 3.5 years. Then, I was lucky enough because of the organics that I was introduced to to train. We put 95 kids in televised careers and 12 world champions. Then, all of a sudden, I’m getting called by law enforcement and military units and I’m training them all the way up to special forces in different branches of the military. And then, a broadcasting career. 

None of this stuff would have ever happened is my main point. God knows what I’d be knowing right now had I not discovered organics. Right? So, it changed my life and it woke me up and a light bulb went off in my head. I got a lot of my athletes on these organics as well. And everybody always wondered why our team had such good endurance. Well, number one, we could train very hard because we grew up in the wrestling world, which is a pretty tough sport, to begin with. But also, our bodies were at a cellular level having so much more oxygen that we weren’t running out of oxygen in our muscles, and therefore, our muscles weren’t burning sugar for energy, so we weren’t building up lactic acid. So, we could just go and go and go. It has, yeah, really been a cool life journey for me because of organics.

[00:10:13] Ashley James: That is absolutely fascinating. So, you said it was a bunch of antioxidants at the beginning that you took. What led you to figure out the supplement that you’ve created now?

[00:10:28] Pat Miletich: You know, I got a call several years ago from a guy that I had known for about 20 years and he was always into the supplement world and very well-versed in organics. He called me up and he started talking to me about fulvic humic acid. As he was explaining the benefits of it for humans, he got to the point where he said up to 45 percent more oxygen at a cellular level. And I said, “Hold on, stop, say that again.” He said 45 percent more oxygen at a cellular level. I said if that’s true, people are going to break world records in endurance sports and combat sports. I’ve never heard of any number near that amount. I said, send it to me immediately and I want to get on it immediately. So, I got myself and my daughters on it right away. 

About 10 days into it, at the dinner table, my oldest daughter who was on the rowing team, one of the top rowing clubs in the world actually in Moline, Illinois right across the river from us, said that she was keeping up with the number two girl in the world on her team going upriver in the Mississippi River and asked my middle daughter if her swim practices were getting any easier. Of course, she was swimming for a guy that was a former Navy SEAL, so you can imagine what those practices are like. My middle daughter said, “We did 100-100 yesterday on the clock, and I was the only girl to finish practice.” So, I said, “Okay, I think yes, this is definitely working, so I’m going to go run 22 miles tomorrow,” because it was Memorial Day. For the 22 veterans on average that die per day, I figured I was going to go run 22 miles. And I hadn’t run in about a year really at all. I’ve been lifting weights but not really running because I had done a lot of ultrarunning distant stuff, and it just took so much time to go out and do a training run of 20, 30, 40 miles that I decided I was going to spend time in the weight room. 

So, I went out, and I ran 11 miles out and 11 miles back in my 50’s and thought I’m going to be really sore tomorrow. I woke up the next day and I wasn’t really sore at all and I ran a 5-mile recovery run, and I said, “Okay, yup, this is exactly what he said it is.” So, from there, I’ve shared it with a lot of people and we’ve had a lot of amazing athletic stories. Guys who are in their 50’s who are my buddies that are ultrarunners who’ve been running marathons and ultramarathons for decades in their 50’s, dropped their per-mile times by over a minute, and at the same time, their heart rates dropped by 30 beats a minute. So, you just don’t do that in your 50’s unless you’re putting something very potent and very effective in your body.

[00:13:23] Ashley James: This makes so much sense because my husband, he started taking it and then he went on a hike. We’ve been kind of sedentary, let’s just say. The last few years have been stressful. A few months ago, he spent five months sitting for five months straight doing 24-hour hospice care for his dad. So, he was very sedentary. We haven’t been as active. We have probably been the least active in the last few years that we have in our lives. He got up, this is a few days after getting on your supplement, he’s like, “I’m going for a walk.” He just went and he hiked up a really steep hill, and he went, and he went, and he went. And I thought maybe he goes a few blocks, but he went miles, he went absolute miles. I mean, you know, if you have been really sedentary just sitting for years, and then you get up and you just start hiking, and he walks pretty fast, he’s 6’6” so he’s got long legs, and he went and just went. He was, “Yeah, I made it to Starbucks.” I mean, Starbucks is miles away. Then, he walked back. And he wasn’t sore the next day. It didn’t even faze him. I didn’t connect the dots until just now. But that was a few days after like maybe a week or so after he started taking your supplement. But since he started taking it, he’s been more energetic, more motivated, more active than he’s been in a long time. 

[00:15:05] Pat Miletich: That's amazing.

[00:15:09] Ashley James: I’m an extrovert and I go, go, go, and I manage so many different things, so I’m just always kind of on the move. But we’ve been both organizing more, cleaning more, just being more active around the house instead of being lazy bums. The first thing I noticed, so I joined the choir and we’re practicing for Christmas and that particular Thursday, we have a choir practice on Thursday evenings. My mornings start pretty early, so it was a long day. Usually, on those long days because I’m working, I’m doing homeschooling, I’m managing a large homeschooling group, I’m shopping, I’m cooking, I’m cleaning, I’m doing the laundry, so it’s like go, go, go, and then, at 6:30 after I’ve made dinner, after we’ve driven our son around to all of his Taekwondo class and all the other classes he does, and then, I get to the church and I’m in the choir, and normally, right around dinnertime, I am done. I’m wiped. I just want to sit down and I just want to put me to bed; I’m done. It’s been a long day. Just let me be, right? 

But there I was getting ready to go to church, and I am, like, my body is telling me it’s 11:00 AM. Now it’s 6:30 at night, but my body is like, do you know how you feel at 11:00 AM? That's pretty much high peak energy, right? Your body has processed breakfast, you got lots of energy, you haven’t spent all your energy that day. Ever since I started taking it, my body feels it’s not like jittery like coffee. It’s not like energy that coffee tricks you into having energy. That's not it. It’s not like sugar tricks you into feeling like you're hyper or energetic before a crash. It’s not that. It doesn’t necessarily feel like it’s giving me energy. It just feels like it’s like my body is at 11:00 AM all day long until I’m ready to go to bed. That's what I noticed. I just don’t hit that exhaustion. I don’t hit that like “Oh, I need a break. I need to sit down. I need something to get me through the day.” I don’t hit that since I started taking it and it’s not like a bunch of capsules. It was like 2 or 3 of these tiny capsules. So, I’m kind of like, what’s going on? I always think it’s a placebo effect. But I didn’t know it would do this. In a placebo effect, you have to have some belief it’s going to do something. I didn’t know what it was going to do. But I just noticed like, wow, it’s 6:30 at night and I can keep going. And I just feel myself steady, even-keel energy all day long until I’m ready to go to bed. Then, I’m just like, okay, then I go to bed.

[00:17:58] Pat Miletich: Beautiful.

[00:17:59] Ashley James: Yeah, that's what I felt. I thought, man, this is very interesting. I haven’t tried pushing myself like, okay, I’m going to go to the gym. Because when I do go to the gym, I get like very alpha and I push myself pretty hard. I love weightlifting, I love grabbing those ropes and throwing them around until the burn hits and my muscles stop working. So, it’ll be interesting to see what happens when I get back in the gym. But right now, I’m just being kind of trying to put out fires in my life. I’m running around, and I just notice that I can do that with ease instead of with exhaustion. So, I thought that was really cool.

[00:18:30] Pat Miletich: Beautiful. And I can explain where this comes from, why it’s so effective, how it works, all that sort of stuff. So fulvic humic acids are derived from different places. Some are derived from leonardite, which is a soft coal, which is fossilized. I don’t want to put that in my body. They have to use harsh chemical processes to remove the humic fulvic from the coal and then they would add pre- and probiotics in it for agriculture to call it organic, so to speak. Same thing from dead seafloor beds. They’ll mine it from places like that. 

But the ones that I’m going to put in my body come from living, breathing peat bogs in North America. The gentleman that discovered this searched for about 6 years testing bogs all over North America to find the most nutrient-rich ones. Once he found that area where there were the most nutrient-rich, he knew to go down roughly about 45 to 50 feet to the sediment layer where all those nutrients are concentrated from 1500 different types of plants that have basically decomposed for 60,000 years. So, they’re able to auger that up. They put metal tubes down into the bog and then they auger that up and then they have a process that uses zero chemicals, puts it under extreme pressure and separates the powder from the pulp. The pulp goes back in the bog to continue what’s called the humification process and breaking down. So, it’s actually as sustainable as you're going to get. 

When you add that powder in water, some people put it in their coffee in the morning. I used to drink coffee like crazy. But I drink one cup of coffee a day now because yes, this product gives you so much energy. In testing, fulvic humics are known to be organic forms of the metals will be burned by the mitochondria which is the furnace of the cell to create energy within the cell, and that's where you get the real energy that a human being or an animal is supposed to feel when they're healthy and putting proper levels of organics in their body. So, that's where the energy comes from.

Also, fulvic humics are known in test to bond with hydrogen within the cell to create more oxygen in the cell which is very beneficial. Then, the last thing they do before they leave is they have the ability to bond with heavy metals and toxins and then your cell recognizes those organic substances that are water-soluble and will then release the heavy metals and toxins attached to the organics to chelate those toxins and heavy metals out of your cells. So, when you have better cellular function throughout your entire body, you're just going to feel better. That's really one of the things that it’s done.

Fulvic humics are also known to be able to help balance hormonal levels—testosterone and estrogen. The organic iodine that is in fulvic humics is known to benefit thyroid function as well as even they say it protects you from radiation, which with 5G and all the other stuff that we’re dealing with these days, probably not a bad thing. So, there’s a lot of benefits to this and, ultimately, what you want is to remove as much inflammation out of your body as possible and with the heavy metals and toxins in our cells, a lot of the inflammation comes from those toxins being trapped within us and that, of course, ends up manifesting in some form of disease many times.  

[00:22:10] Ashley James: Listeners, to get it, can go to But on the website, it says one of the things it does is build your gut biome, which is the single most important thing we need. I mean, obviously we need our heart to be like there’s certain things we need immediately. But for sustained health, for optimal health, the first thing we have to do is make sure we have a healthy guy because the gut makes our neurotransmitters, it houses them too, it digests and basically makes the nutrients for us. I’ve done a few interviews on this where we discovered that there’s over 100,000 genetic expressions of your microbiome, and they can see that what your particular gut bacteria are doing is digesting food and changing its chemical composition and then you uptake that, and that becomes this nutrient. So, we have a delicate relationship and an essential relationship with these 6 pounds of bacteria in our gut, and it’s constantly under threat because if you don’t eat organic, life is safe for example and all the other chemicals on conventionally grown food destroy the gut, lots of different over-the-counter medications and prescription medications destroy the microbiome of the gut. So, we’re constantly under threat and we need to support our microbiome. We need to repopulate it and support it. So, any time I see a product that works really well, helping us maintain good gut health. It’s essential. It’s essential for our emotional and mental health as well because there is a direct link between gut health and emotional and mental health.

[00:24:02] Pat Miletich: Sure.

[00:24:04] Ashley James: And there’s a direct link to our immune function. Just every cell in our body requires this delicate balance to be protected. So, can you explain how your supplement helps build the gut biome?

[00:24:21] Pat Miletich: Well, basically, what’s being tested right now and there’s been several studies done on mitochondrial function and cellular function and heavy metal toxicity removal. But the really cool thing that a lot of people are testing right now at universities here in Iowa as well as at the university in British Columbia, is they're very interested in the specific types, families of microbes, and the numbers because when this comes up out of the ground, again, this is not fossilized, this is living. So, there’s 60,000-year-old pristine microbes that come up with it. And when it is flash-frozen, those microbes are frozen in time. But when you put them back in water, they come to life like sea monkeys again. And that’s the best way that I can describe it for people.

So, that’s what they’re very interested in because that’s what’s going on inside your body. It’s also when they talk about the terra preta soil, have you heard Gram Hancock on Joe Rogan talk about the terra preta soil from Brazil at all?

[00:25:27] Ashley James: No.

[00:25:29] Pat Miletich: So, very interesting. Gram Hancock is a guy that’s been on my podcast several times. Super, super intelligent guy. One area of his study is history, talking about the massive ancient civilization cities that they're finding within the Amazon jungle that pre-date back to 8,000 to 10,000 years ago. These cities, these civilizations had a really unique composting method that created a super-rich and microbial-rich soil called the terra preta soil or the Amazon black earth. You can take a handful of that and put it down on barren soil, and his words exactly, and bring that barren soil back to life through the microbial activity and the nutrients in that soil. So, this is a 60,000-year-old version of that but even more concentrated because this has been, again, 1500 types of plants that have decomposed for 60,000 years. It’s the most nutrient-rich substance that I’ve ever found, and I think the gentleman that discovered this actually should get a Nobel Prize for it.

[00:26:46] Ashley James:  That’s fascinating. And they're doing studies on it right now. It would be interesting to see if it repopulates and stays in the gut because a lot of probiotics only work as long as you take them and they don’t stay in the gut months after you have stopped taking them. Whereas eating fermented foods, they tend to see that that has a greater effect. But again, this is not a probiotic. This is, in a sense, that it’s been constructed in the lab or cultured in a lab, I should say. This has been taken from the earth. So, it’s different. It’s different than taking a probiotic. 

[00:27:30] Pat Miletich: I, over the past 35 years, have found that to be honest with you, whatever our Creator has created is always better than what is created in laboratories from what I’ve found. I mean, of course, nutraceuticals, taking organics, revving them up, doing the things that they do with them, are very beneficial. But I’ve not seen a laboratory produce anything that has these effects on people’s endurance and overall well-being, to be honest with you.

[00:28:00] Ashley James: That is fascinating. So you’ve given us some examples of athletes who have benefited from it. Do you have stories of average everyday people or even people who are sick have some transformations where we’ve seen people be able to really recover from an illness because of this?

[00:28:21] Pat Miletich: Well, I don’t make any medical claims but I can tell you that there’s been some very dramatic health turnarounds, 180’s with people who were in dire straits with their health and it certainly helped them a lot. For me, again, with my respiratory system, I’ve tried over the past four years several different fulvic humics just to see how they compare. Generally, about 10 days into using other fulvic humics, my respiratory system starts to deteriorate again. And so, then I get back on my own product and my respiratory system seems to come back. So, yeah, I can’t make any specific stories. I won’t do that just for obvious reasons. But I can tell you that I’ve had a lot of very good friends with a myriad of pretty serious health issues seem to make some pretty good recoveries.

[00:29:22] Ashley James: I love it. And now, I saw that one of the things that you have added to it is acerola cherry powder which is a fantastic way to get vitamin C-wise, that you include that in with the fulvic humics inside the capsules.

[00:29:40] Pat Miletich: Yeah, the fulvic humic is an amazing transporter of nutrients into the cell. So, it’s going to transport that organic vitamin C much better into the cell so it’s going to make that even more effective for immune function. The organic vitamin C is also an incredible antioxidant, so they both work well together. For me, I’m thanking way ahead of taking every possible antioxidant that I can find along with fulvic humic and throw them in one capsule and just turn people into literally just machines. 

[00:30:17] Ashley James: I love it. Now, you call it Super Soldier Black Gold Oxygen Booster. Can you explain why you’ve decided to call your supplement that?

[00:30:32] Pat Miletich: I’m a guy who has followed a lot of the folks. I hosted a podcast for about 7 years that we dealt with a lot of the stuff that was going on in the world kind of behind the scenes. Listening to guys or folks who are talking about digital implants in people’s brains and a lot of the things that they’re talking about building digital super soldiers, China is talking about building military digital super soldiers and things like that. I thought, you know, in all the athletic endeavors that I’ve ever been involved in and I believe and I know because I’ve seen them, I’ve had to rustle them, I’ve had to fight them, I’ve run with them, that the X-men actually do exist on this planet. There’s people in their 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s who can run 100 miles at high altitude at level 100 without stopping, within 24 hours they get it done. And I can’t explain to people who have not experienced altitude how brutally hard that is just to hike up one mountain is brutally hard for healthy people. I work at a gym where people regularly carry around over 1,000 pounds on their shoulders at a strongman gym. I’ve had people grab me that are so unbelievably powerful that it’s almost beyond, you know, and I was a guy who was in my prime very strong. And these people, there was no comparison in strength. I mean, they threw me around like a ragdoll. Olympic-level wrestlers and people like that. So, they do exist and they were all these people that were raised and ate whole foods, real foods from the earth, not boxed and not processed foods, so to speak, right?

So, my goal, you know, when I hear Dennis Bushnell from NASA saying we’re going to build digital super soldiers, I said, well, I’m going to build organic super soldiers. Let’s see who’s better. And I know who’s better.

[00:32:29] Ashley James: I love it. Building organic super soldiers. I love it. We all want to be. When I first heard that name, I’m like, man, I just think so many people won’t relate to this thinking of super soldier, right? There’s the, you know, mom who’s at home doing homeschooling. I’m not sure that that would be relatable. But then, when you explain in that way, like I want to be an organic super soldier, I want to feel especially the experience I’ve had now with your product where I’m just like yeah, I’m go, go, go and my body just doesn’t go into fatigue, and it’s so cool. Our church is pretty extreme, our services are two-hours long, and we do choir. We get there at 8:00 AM, we don’t leave until 1:00. And we’re standing and singing for at least 3 hours because we do two services. I did that yesterday. I got my family ready, fed my family breakfast. We got to church, was there until 1, got home, made lunch, served lunch to the family, cleaned, did all the stuff around the house and made dinner, and then had a friend over. It was like at 9:00 at night and I’m like, I don’t want my friend to leave, I want to just keep hanging out. But, you know, it’s Sunday night, right? And I’m just like, I can’t believe how just consistent my energy is and I could get so much done, and that is like I’m organic super soldier mom level.

[00:34:01] Pat Miletich: There you go. No, that’s it. I mean, that’s what it’s all about. It’s about changing people’s lives and if we can’t get people to just eat even remotely sensibly to educate them on what’s making them sick, what’s causing inflammation in their diet, and then put proper organic nutrients into their body from the supplementation, we can literally change somebody’s life so dramatically with their health that then they sit back and go “wow, what do I want to do with my life now? Now that I can actually do things I want to do?” I’ve had people just break down in tears numerous times because their health had changed so dramatically by just simply changing their diet a little bit and putting proper organic nutrients into their body supplementation and it’s all I care about right now, is just helping people understand that they don’t have to be sick, that you can change your life.

For the past several days, for the past week, I’ve been helping DownRange Excursions which is a local group that helps local veterans here in the quad cities, Iowa, Illinois. They take them on excursions, canoe trips, kayak trips, fishing trips, hunting trips, things like that to get them back into the wilderness and help them cope a little bit with what they’re going through. They also have a supplement line. So, I like helping them and explain the benefits. As we’re in these grocery stores, I’m telling probably 9 out of 10 people are either obese, they’re sadly disfigured, their musculoskeletal system, you can tell that they're not with it mentally. It breaks my heart to watch this happen to Americans because I’ve watched it for so many years because I’ve been involved in high-level sports and nutrients and understanding this stuff, that I understand why it’s happening because they're not getting the nutrients from their food anymore, because our soil has been so beat up by chemicals and things like that. 

So, as I was sitting there yesterday and as I was talking to the owner of the company DownRange Supplements, I said to him, it’s sad—it’s sad to watch this. He said yes, and that's why we’re here. We’re here to explain that people can change their lives. Just the message I try to get out to people for those people that are hurting right now that maybe have obesity issues that are in pain, suffering from a myriad of health issues, that you can change it if you put the right things in your body and just give it a chance. That’s the main thing. 

[00:36:44] Ashley James: We’ve been discussing inflammation and you brought up food, so I think this is a wonderful transition. I’d love for you to share your expertise. I mean, you see trained world champions, trained amazing fighters, trained soldiers, so many people, and helped hundreds and hundreds of people in this becoming elite athletes, becoming the best versions of themselves athletically. Right? And you can’t do that and then go to McDonald’s. You can’t do that. Medical doctors, it just drives me nuts when they say this: “Your diet has nothing to do with your health.” I have heard that so many times from doctors. “Well, you can’t fix this with diet. You can’t fix this with food. You need a drug.” It’s ridiculous that it’s a huge myth that you can just eat whatever you want because “diabetes is genetics, so just eat whatever you want and take the insulin or take the metformin.” There's this whole mentality around maintaining sickness. With that, I want to shift people’s mindsets. I want to help them understand what you’ve been doing for so long, is helping people to become the absolute best versions of themselves.

[00:38:12] Pat Miletich: Yeah.

[00:38:13] Ashley James: So, I’d love for you to share the insight with the masses. Tell us what the masses don’t know that the elite athletes do know about what they can do on a daily basis to create optimal health. 

[00:38:26] Pat Miletich: Well, I can tell you this. If it needs a commercial and it’s in a box, you generally don’t want to eat it, right? There are simple things when you're going through the organic section or the produce section where you can look for the numbers. There's a hashtag with a four- or five-digit code on there that you want to stay away from the 3’s and 4’s, when they start with 3’s and 4’s. You want to go to the 8’s and 9’s that are truly organic, so that’s something that is super important. But years ago, you know, at one time I had between 40 and 50 world-rank fighters training in my facility at the same time. So, it was a roomful of very high-level professional fighters. And fighters from all over the world would travel to train with my team for their upcoming fights. It was my job to coach these guys, but it was not my job to babysit them, so I would tell them “This is where you stay. Rent an apartment across the street. And then this is where the grocery store is, and this is where you can get this and take care of this. And you're on your own.”

So, all the fighters from Asia, from South America, from Europe, they would go to the grocery store and every single time, and this is over two decades ago, said “Now, we understand why Americans are obese and disease-ridden. Your grocery stores are grotesque. There's nothing but poison in your grocery stores.” They couldn’t believe what they saw. That's another lightbulb that went off for me and because I was doing things like on Sundays I would boil three chickens and then take the meat off and put it in big Tupperware, steam a bunch of broccoli, cook a bunch of brown rice, hard-boil 48 eggs and peel them all and have them ready for the week, things like that, and eat super clean while I was getting ready for my own fights. But yeah, and that was the problem is, is I started seeing Americans getting bigger and bigger. There was a gentleman named Dr. Ed Thomas that periodically that periodically I would be blessed by his presence and his education. He was saying 25 years ago that it was a national security crisis that was taking place with obesity in America and we’re seeing that manifest now where people who are obese and diabetic and have comorbidities are very, very vulnerable to what’s been going on in the last few years. So, it’s got to be a terrifying experience for them and to those folks, again, you can change your health, you can change your immune system, build your immune system and that's super, super important in modern times for certain. 

That's really something that’s very important as well as kids were brought to me when I was teaching, you know, I taught children for years anywhere from 3 years old all the way up. All of a sudden, boys started to be brought to me to take lessons because the parents wanted them to be able to work on their concentration and their focus. And they had this new thing called autism. It was growing and back then it was 1 in 5000 kids I guess roughly, and now, I believe we’re up to 1 in 36 children, specifically boys, that have autistic symptoms or characteristics. So, it’s obviously our environment, the chemicals and a lot of the other stuff that's going on, the toxic chemicals and heavy metals that are in our environment are getting into these children and everybody else into our cells and are causing us to short-circuit, so to speak. That's really what it comes down to, is just you’ve got to really pay attention to labels, what you put in your body, what chemicals you do not want to put in your body and as well as deodorants, shampoos, things like that that have aluminum and other substances in them that you don’t want to put on your skin because your skin is going to absorb that into your system and cause hormonal disruptions and a lot of other issues. 

[00:42:37] Ashley James: Yeah, we’ve got to really advocate for ourselves and take care of ourselves and be very cognizant of what we’re putting in our body, around our body. You talked about mold. So many people live in homes with mold. Mold is so bad for the immune system. It causes neurological problems. We just have to be very clear and understand what’s in our environment and where our food is coming from. And we have to question everything. We have to be the person that questions everything that reads labels. I become a food detective; it drives my husband nuts. There are certain brains I know I can trust so I don’t read the labels. But I have still been shocked because I’ll find a brand, I’ll read the labels, I’ll vet them. I’ll go, “Okay.” I don’t buy a lot of processed foods but there's a few things, you know, like maybe packages of brown rice noodles for our son or something. Right? And I’ll read the labels. Or some hot sauce. Sometimes I’ll make my own hot sauce, sometimes I buy it from the store and I’ll read the label and everything looks good. And then, I’ll be buying that for a few years and then I’ll just it’s sort of a habit to look at labels and I’ll read the ingredients, and they’ve changed it. They’ve changed the ingredients. Now there’s, all of a sudden, sugar added or some weird “natural” flavoring which is a cover for MSG and all kinds of stuff. We have to be diligent and question everything. That’s why I love finding these.

There's just a handful of amazing supplement companies out there that have incredibly high ethics, that are actually doing good in the world, that are making a difference for people. It’s like 1 percent or maybe even less than 1 percent of the supplement companies out there. Then there's a ton of really bad supplement companies that are giving the good ones a bad name. It’s so unfortunate. I spent thousands of dollars in many, many years when I was sick, taking like go to Trader Joe’s and just buying all the vitamins there. They just go right through me and I never felt a difference ever. Ever, ever, ever. I’d go to Whole Foods or wherever supplement store. I didn’t get a difference. Then I was introduced to a really high-quality brand that was made by a naturopath and not sold in the stores. And I felt amazing. Amazing. Totally a game-changer for me.

There's only been a handful of game-changer supplements. Yours is one of them for me.

[00:45:13] Pat Miletich: Beautiful.

[00:45:15] Ashley James: For me, that's why you can’t out-supplement a bad diet. I couldn’t take your supplement every day and then just eat McDonald’s and expect amazing health. Right? The diet absolutely is key, but even more so than diet, we have to make sure that's clean in terms of organic. Make sure that it’s clean. We have to eat right. We need to move our body in a way that brings us joy. We have to go to bed on time, drink enough water, destress ourselves, make sure that we’re feeling fulfilled in life. These are key to health. These are fundamental key things to health.

Then there's these little things that come along that are complete gamechangers that take you to the next level, right? I want everyone to do all the fundamentals and then they get something like your supplement that oxygenates their cells, boosts their gut biome, helps their immune system. I want to get into understanding a bit more, if you could explain further. Can you explain further how this helps the immune system function better, how it fortifies the immune system and how does it work to oxygenate the cells even better than just a regular body does it on its own?

[00:46:28] Pat Miletich: Sure, yeah. So, the fulvic humic combination, the humic is a bigger molecule, a bigger chain, and it protects the outside of the cell. The fulvic is what goes into the cell and will bond with hydrogen to create more oxygen within the cell. I mean, we’re water, we’re oxygen and what I like to say good bugs and bad bugs, technically. But we’re the same as dirt. If you take human cells only in clay, that's the starting point, right? And then we add water, oxygen, decomposing organic matter and microbes, and that makes rich dirt that can grow food and it also makes a human being. So, that's super important for people to understand. So, the more you can raise your oxygen, stay hydrated with good quality water, and control the bad bugs, so to speak, to a certain extent, is super important. There have been a lot of tests done on the ability of humic and fulvic acids to have a greater affinity for viruses than viruses have affinity for the cell itself. So, it’s something that's very powerful. They’ve been proven to be very good natural antivirals. And people can look those tests up on a myriad of different fulvic humic acids. So, that's something that does exist. But that's super important for folks to understand that as well.

I’ve had a lot of good conversations, interesting, colorful conversations, to say the least, when you talk about doctors. I’ve had good conversations with doctors, I’ve had very interesting conversations with agronomists, horticulturalists, and I was laughed at the other or probably a week and a half ago or whatever by a chemist. I was at a digital currency meeting and a lady that owns a CBD company was asking me about humic fulvic. And I was talking about organic forms of metal. The guy started just laughing in my face from across the table. Then, his friends started laughing at me and pointed at his friend and goes, “He’s a chemist.” I was thinking to myself, I can tell. So, anyway, I said, “Do I have to explain how organic metals are formed?” And they said, “Give it a shot.”

And so, I said when metals are chelated up out of the ground by a plant and bonded with a carbon molecule, they become very stable and useful for the mitochondria to burn as fuel to generate energy again. And he looked at me and all he could say to me was, “Well, I’ll agree that things can be bonded with carbon molecules.” And I was thinking to myself, how much did that chemistry degree cost him. I mean, I got punched in the head for a living and had figured this stuff out. But people have been educated only one way and it’s about synthetics. And he had the gall to ask me, he said, “Wait a minute, can this substance by synthesized?” And I said, why would you want to do that? That’s the problem that’s getting everybody sick, is synthetics. I go stop it, just stop. So, that was an interesting conversation.

[00:49:51] Ashley James: How different is this from store-bought, let’s say, humic shale and fulvic acid? I have a lot of friends who said, “Oh, well, you know, I’ve been taking…” and then they’ll just name off some stuff they bought at some supplement store. “And I’m taking a humic shale and a fulvic acid.” The reason why I ask them is because my friends know I’m like a health nut and they’ll tell me what they take and I’ll start talking about their symptoms. Then I’ll say, “So is it working for you? Are you feeling a difference?” “Oh, maybe. Maybe I’m getting a little better sleep.” But they have 20 other symptoms. They’re still riddled with health issues. They’re still exhausted. And I’m like, “Well, first of all, let’s look at the supplement company. You did buy it from a store, right?” And in my experience, most supplements bought at a store are not the highest quality ones out there. Some of them are middle of the road, some of them are okay, you can get away with it. But I’ve never met a friend who said “I’ve totally noticed the difference. My life is completely changed,” when they talk about using an over-the-counter humic shale and fulvic acid supplement. I’m just thinking there’s probably a few listeners out there saying “Oh yeah, one of my supplements I’m taking says it has humic shale and fulvic acid.” So, how different could yours possibly be?

[00:51:15] Pat Miletich: Well again, we go back to organic or inorganic sources—dead sea floor bed or coal that has to use harsh chemical processes to remove the humic fulvic from it in the first place, is something that I don’t want to put in my body and I’m certainly not going to put it in my kid’s bodies. So, it’s got to come from an organic source. Peat bogs–living breathing peat bogs has got to be the first source. Now, a lot of peat bog derived humic fulvics, they will take and they will heat pasteurize and kill the microbes that are in it, which are again, pristine microbes from thousands of years ago, and then they take pre and probiotics that have been cultured in a lab and add them back into it. And I don’t understand why you would want to do that. 

Now, some people say, “Well, we want to be able to control what type of microbes are in it and things like that.” I always say it’s obvious that God created some really powerful stuff. Every time man seems to mess with what God created, they screw it up really bad. Genetically modified grains, for instance. Synthetic fertilizers and glyphosate and everything else that was patented as an antibiotic originally. You spray it on plants because they’re sick and they can’t fend off bugs because they don’t give off the natural enzymes. So, again, most vitamin mineral supplements, for instance, come from rock that’s inorganic. You're an inorganic organism. You're not going to absorb it. It’s not an organic substance so it’s not meant to be in your body. And that’s just the way it is. So, you're always going to benefit and feel the organics, at least high-level organics, especially for sick people or people that are looking for huge gains and endurance, they're going to feel it a lot more when they put powerful concentrated organics in their body.

[00:53:16] Ashley James: I’m a huge believer in trace minerals and your supplement has over 70 trace minerals in it. There’s 60 minerals that are essential to the body. There’s many trace minerals that are necessary and the body absolutely needs them and yet we’re deficient in them because of the farming practices of over the last 100 years. I had Dr. Wallach on my show twice. His degree is in veterinary medicine, pathology, soil agriculture and he’s a naturopathic physician. He also spent many years, decades being a research scientist. So with all that, and what he concluded, with all that, because he actually discovered what is not in the mainstream, which drives me nuts. We know how to prevent neural tube defects in utero because we know to take folate, not fulvic acid, that's synthetic. We’re talking about that’s synthetic versus like an organic. Folic acid actually blocks folate from uptake and we still then can develop neural tube defects. So, we’ve got to make sure that if you are taking a supplement during pregnancy and also even before pregnancy when you're waiting to get pregnant, we should be making sure that it’s folate. We have to make sure it’s folate in its organic form. Also, eating lots of leafy greens that are organic will help us get there as well. 

But he discovered that selenium deficiency in utero is the cause of muscular dystrophy and cystic fibrosis and that Down syndrome is a zinc deficiency at the moment of conception. There's many other birth defects that can happen because of not optimal conditions while the baby is being built. We can build humans without all the key nutrients. We’re just going to build sort of broken humans, right? And most of us are walking around like, you know, our parents drank alcohol while they were pregnant and smoked cigarettes and weren’t taking supplements and were eating not-so-great nutrients. We see poor health as a result and so we have to overcome it. What’s amazing is the body is just an absolute miracle and I’ve seen people on their deathbeds be able to recover and live absolutely healthy lives when they're able to make some powerful changes in their diet, in their supplementation to fill in those gaps. It’s like supplements, really high-quality ones are the mortar and the food is the bricks. Right? 

We can overcome so much. But Dr. Wallach discovered that the key thing for health, beyond anything else, are minerals. He says you can accidentally get vitamins by eating fruits and vegetables. You can accidentally get them. But it’s really hard to accidentally get all minerals that we need. The farming practices, again, his background is in soil agriculture so he saw this. He tested soil samples and found that the Amish for example who had incredibly high birth defect rights, he tested their soil. Because they were primarily only eating the food they grew and he discovered that their soil was completely void of certain key minerals like selenium and so they kept having these birth defects. He helped them re-mineralize their soil and get on the trace minerals, and boom, they were able to stop those birth defects immediately. So, I’ve seen it over and over again. And I’m a huge believer in making sure we take trace minerals as a supplement because you don’t know if the farm you’re buying your organic produce from has been re-mineralizing their soil and most farmland has been farmed for almost 100 years or more without re-mineralizing. We used to over 100 years ago up until electricity took over. We did wood burning. We had ash. We had so much ash and that's minerals and we’d throw it onto the garden. We always were eating food from re-mineralized gardens.

If you look at cookbooks from 200 years ago, it will say in the recipes to add pot ash as a thickening agent. We were adding minerals back into our food as part of a regular practice. 

[00:57:53] Pat Miletich: Very cool. 

[00:57:54] Ashley James: So yeah, I’m a big believer in minerals. It’s one of the things that helped me to regain my health after being sick for so many years. So, your supplement has these minerals but you're saying that because they’re an organic form, it’s like it was predigested by the plant. So the plant up-took, plants digest minerals and it digests it to the point where we can absorb it.

[00:58:20] Pat Miletich: Yes.

[00:58:22] Ashley James: So 50 million years ago or however long this peat bog has been in there, the plants digested the minerals and they stayed in this chelated form, this very microscopic form that is easy to uptake from the body. But we’ve been sold. So, I grew up, as you did too, grow up watching commercials on milk, it does the body good. We grew up being told that we have to drink milk to get our calcium. I kind of grew up thinking cows made calcium like a lot of people think.

[00:58:55] Pat Miletich: And eat wheat bread.

[00:58:56] Ashley James: Right. Fortified. Eat fortified. And it’s synthetic. By the way, people who like me have MTHFR, who can’t process non-methylated B vitamins, eating fortified bread and fortified foods and flowers is really bad for us. It clogs up our liver and makes it so we can’t detox heavy metals. It’s crazy how if you go out there and eat the standard American diet, and I say this often on my show, if you want to be a statistic, do what everyone else is doing. Seventy percent of the adult population is on at least one prescription medication. Many of them are on pain meds. People who are chronically in pain, their bodies are in pain because they’re nutrient deficient and they’re just screaming in inflammation. We have got 1/3 of the population’s obese or prediabetic or diabetic. The leading causes of death—heart disease, diabetes, cancer—these are not fun diseases to die off. This is like the last 20 years of your life just goes downhill worse and worse and worse. It is suffering, it is hospital visits. It is not nice. I would rather sacrifice the fun that food brings me now, like I would rather not go eat fun food. Like I’d rather say no to that whatever chocolate cake, whatever. I’d rather say no to that and be climbing mountains in my 90’s than live how everyone else is living.

So, I need to be the black sheep or I need to be the salmon. I need to go completely against the grain. I need to be okay to doing it differently from everyone else and saying no to the things that people say yes to. But I have to really make sure I secure my minerals. So, looking where we get our minerals from, because people have been brainwashed to think “Well, I get all my minerals from dairy products or from fortified wheat or fortified grains.” I had Dr. Neal Bernard on my show twice and he talks about studies that show that countries who do more cow dairy have the highest rates of broken hips, broken lips, have the highest rates of osteopenia/osteoporosis. Those countries that almost don’t do any dairy at all have the lowest rates of basically all the bone diseases. So, very interesting that we’ve been brainwashed through marketing to eat fortified cereal that’s laced with sugar, drink the excretions from another mammal past infancy, which is actually drinking an immune system from a different animal, which kind of just drives me nuts. When you look through Neal Barnard’s research and you read his books or listen to those two episodes, it’s a real eye-opener. So, we’ve been conned through food marketing to create ill health. And I wonder if there’s some real evil people in a backroom somewhere like you’ve got big food, big agri sitting back there menacingly with Monsanto and the pharmaceutical industry and they're like “Ha-ha-ha! So we’re going to tell people that they have high cholesterol and we need to make them eat no fat but they have to eat lots of sugar instead because low-fat foods are filled with sugar. Then we’re going to get them on this drug.” The way we see how much we’ve been manipulated, I just wonder if they're all kind of in cahoots together and maybe that's my little conspiracy brain going. But basically, what we’ve been taught is the exact opposite of the truth. 

[01:02:45] Pat Miletich: Sure.

[01:02:46] Ashley James: So people are walking around completely mineral deficient, believing that they're getting their minerals because they're getting their 8 ounces of milk a day or whatever they’ve been told by the marketing. They're actually not getting anywhere near what they need. So, these minerals that are in your particular supplement, the 70+ trace minerals, they’ve already been digested by these plants. The body uptakes them very quickly. I wonder how much though are we supposed to take because they’re very small capsules and I was surprised, I was just taking two twice a day and I got really great results. So I’m like, man, how is it that it is so tiny and yet I’m getting such a good result? What if I took more? Could you go through a detox if you take too much? Maybe can we just talk about that. Like are there any adverse effects at first or does the body go through a detox if we take too much? Can you kind of lay out what the appropriate amount to take is?

[01:03:46] Pat Miletich: For starters, again, the chelation process and it will clean off your intestinal walls. At the smaller does that you're taking, it’s going to do it a lot slower. There are people who have, say, an athlete who’s pushing the envelope every single day, the things that I used to do as an athlete where we would kickbox on Wednesday nights. It was sparring at the gym for all the professional fighters. And we would spar 10 to 15 rounds—and that's a lot, that's very taxing. But then we’d throw in our running shoes and go run a hill over and over and over for extra endurance. Now you got to get up the next morning and you’ve got to come back and you’ve got to train again, so you have to be able to recover and you have to put the nutrients back in the body, the hydration, proper sleep, you know, all those sorts of things.

So, people that are really pushing the envelope in terms of endurance and strength training and a lot of the other stuff that people like to do that look crazy to other people, they’re going to definitely take more to replenish their body. But 2 to 4 capsules a day is plenty for the average person, generally. I’ve gotten a lot of messages from people on social media who are saying. I had a guy and it’s funny because I’ve had several guys that I know say the same thing, they go, “Hey, does this do something for your testosterone?” I go, “Oh, you’re chasing your wife around the house?” They go, “Yeah.” And so, I’ve gotten a lot of that. A lot of digestive issues, the symptoms are waning and a lot of other stuff with inflammation. So, it just varies, I think, depending on activity, to be honest with you.

[01:05:35] Ashley James: Would starting with 2 twice a day be a good place to start?

[01:05:41] Pat Miletich: A lot of people can take just 2 in the morning to start with if they want. That's fine. But like I said, I mean, I’m a guy who’s going to use a lot more because I’m trying to push my body. Today, I tried to do a bunch of crazy stuff. I like to do workouts where I’ll do 10 burpee jump pull-ups and then go run half a mile and do that 10 times, things like that that are breaking my body down pretty good. I’m in my 50’s, so I want to be able to come back tomorrow and get on the treadmill and hike a bunch of miles at 10 incline to work my rear chain and then the next day I’ll do something like beat on the heavy bag and then get on the treadmill and do some sprints, just different things like that to try and keep myself at least in pretty, pretty good shape in my 50’s. Not quite as intense as I used to be but I’m going to still push myself. The older we get and a lot of times the more inflammation we get as we get older because the cells build up those heavy metals and toxins, the more we’re going to feel when we put really good organics in our body and start cleaning it out.

[01:06:50] Ashley James: Yes. Can you tell me more about the studies? You said some studies have been done and some studies are in the process. Is there anything more you can tell us about studies around this?

[01:07:02] Pat Miletich: Yeah. So the mitochondrial studies that was done on it, it definitely improves mitochondrial function and output. So, that's something that’s obviously very good. Because a lot of people come 1:00 in the afternoon are starting to drift off and fall asleep. A lot of times that can be thyroid related, it can be mitochondrial function that's deficient as well and a lot of other things that are going on. So, a lot of people that get on this, as you have said, have no desire to take a nap. They were somebody who was prone to falling asleep at 1:00 and they just have energy all day long, so that's something that proves that it’s obviously doing something with mitochondrial function and other things. But the heavy metal toxicity showing people the levels of the heavy metals have dropped considerably in their bodies even from their hair follicles, so that's something that's really big. There’s a lady who owns a farm on an island in Canada near Vancouver and she got on the product, and she had blood work done of her metal toxicity before and after, and it was very, very dramatic decrease in the heavy metals in her system and likewise there's been a lot of people who have gotten the same results.

[01:08:23] Ashley James: That's really interesting. That was actually my next question. If you could share blood work. Have you guys done blood work with a section of people? Or what are the results that people see are changed after 3 or 6 months on this supplement when they compare blood work? 

[01:08:39] Pat Miletich: Well, some people who have been very sick with really high white blood cell and red blood cell deficiencies and a lot of those types of things, and the 14 chemicals that they test for generally in regular blood work, will be really out of whack and after being on the product for a while, their white blood cell counts and their red blood cell counts go back into the normal range many times and the different chemicals within the body go back into the normal range quite a bit as well. So, that's something that’s empirical, it’s data that’s super important for people to understand that there have been a lot of people who have, yes, gotten blood work. One of the farmers that I’ve been working with, I’ve done some speeches at some Ag gatherings like I said, and talking to farmers because they’ve been exposed to so many harsh chemicals, many times their health is pretty bad. I remember my grandma and grandpa on both sides of the family having Parkinson’s disease from using chemicals on the farm and things like that, so we got to get that stuff out of them.

When I talk to them about their own health and talk to them about fulvic humics because fulvic humics—and they’re called humic fulvics in agriculture—are used quite a bit by a lot of farmers to help with yields, to help with soil health and plant health as well. And so, when I talk to them about their health and I get them on the human form of this product, this Super Soldier, and their health greatly improves, then they tend to perk up and listen to me. Because I ask them about their humic fulvic that's derived from coal and I say, “Would you put that in your body?” And they say, “Absolutely not.” And I said so now we’re starting to talk about the difference in the quality and where it’s derived from is super important. That's when they start to listen to me a little bit.

I’ve got one friend who’s probably one of the most knowledgeable farmers in the country in terms of mixing and conventional and organic products to do biological farming. His pants are literally falling off in right now. He’s lost so much weight and his health has improved greatly. His wife’s health has improved greatly. That's been something that it’s my pathway, my vehicle to getting through to farmers and helping them understand how we can change not only their health but the quality of their crops.

[01:11:05] Ashley James: I met you through Tim James and I’ve had him on my show and I’ve been on his show, and that's his passion too. I’m sure you guys have talked about that. That’s his passion to help farmers to, first of all, just educate them so that they’ll stop using these horrible chemicals that are killing their families and killing the land and destroying the earth. Maybe they’ll get a higher yield for a while by doing GMO and glyphosate or whatever the horrible chemicals. We’re sacrificing the long-term for the short gain. When we have barren lands that are unusable, what’s the point? What we thought in the old days, we thought that the soil was dead, that it’s inert, that it’s not organic. And now, we’ve discovered that farming and the soil is as complex is as our own microbiome in our body, you know, that it’s kind of like so above so below, right? As on earth as in heaven. As in the soil as it is in our body. As in nature, as it is in our body. We can see the similarities between the microbiome of soil and the microbiome of our gut and that we need to maintain a health soil to maintain a healthy body. And by them putting these chemicals on that glyphosate being a chelator but it’s also an antibiotic. So, it’s destroying the microbiome of our gut and of the soil, just killing the soil dead. Then on top of that, it chelates heavy metals to the brain and the kidneys, depositing them into the brain and kidneys. And I have two interviews on that with Stephanie Seneff, PhD, top research scientist at MIT who explains that what we’re seeing is an epidemic of heavy metals being deposited into the brain and the kidneys because glyphosate is rampant and now it’s in our waters. It’s not only in our soil; it’s in our waters.

[01:13:16] Pat Miletich: Our land, everything.

[01:13:18] Ashley James: Yeah, it’s everywhere. It’s just so high, the cancer rates are just going up and up and up. If we look in the farming areas, if we look, for example, in the United States but we could look at any country, the areas where they spray, I was woken up. When I was first pregnant 8 years ago, my midwife who’s also a naturopathic physician who used to be the dean of Bastyr, incredibly knowledgeable woman, been practicing for over 30 years, delivered over a thousand babies, she said to me, you know, it’s good that you don’t live on the other side of the mountains in eastern Washington because during the times, if you're pregnant, I think it was spring or something, if you're pregnant, if you're in the first trimester or whatever, there’s a certain very vulnerable time of a pregnancy. If it coincides with the farming schedule, you will likely lose your baby. Just by living in an area because they do the spring, you inhale the fumes from miles down the road, you inhale what is being sprayed and you will lose your baby. This happens across the world.

So, we really, really need to wake up that our farmers are our line of first defense. We need to support them in changing their ways because it’s going to trickle downstream and then we’re all messed up. These chemicals, it is possible short-term gain but long-term detriment and long-term in our lifetime. So, I love what you're doing. I love that you're supporting the farmers and helping them, I want to say, wake them up but, you know, they're just doing the best they can. They’re scraping by. They can barely make a profit.

[01:15:06] Pat Miletich: Yeah. They’re getting beat up right now. It’s pretty bad. That's the scary thing. So I was talking to a very good friend of mine who’s an advisor. He’s a professor of biology at one of the universities here in the State of Iowa. I asked him, I said, you know, this is a question that I’ve been pondering quite a bit lately for a lot of years, actually, a couple of decades because in the State of Iowa and I know around the Midwest, when they're going to build a development or an office park or whatever, they bring in earth scrapers and they scrape off all the top soil and they put it in massive piles, and then they’ll go back out and I think they're required to put 4 inches back down. So, they’re scraping off all the living soil and then there's clay and then they put a few inches of black earth back down which is not going to hold the water. The water is going to run off into the streams, in the rivers and away from the area, and so, there's not proper, and I said, “You tell me if I’m correct in my assumption that now we do not have proper evaporation rates and therefore, we’re seeing droughts around the country in a big way right now.” And he said, “Yes. You're correct.” And also, by putting synthetics on farm fields and on golf courses and our own yards and everything else, we’re all part of the problem, is that we are creating dead soil that does not hold water and it’s running off and we are creating… the Mississippi River is at the lowest, I think, it’s ever been. There's rivers around the world that are starting to run dry right now because of this, and so, we’ve got to stop it. We really have to stop it and we’ve got to change our ways because it seems like humans are so easily, whether miseducated or I guess programmed so to speak, for the better lack of term, to literally extinct ourselves. I mean, that's what’s happening. People have got to wake up and understand that we’re doing this to ourselves. This is where we talk about the free will, for those that believe in a Creator. He gave us free will. And everything, every calamity, every genocide, every war has always been free will but it always seems to be an atmosphere that has been created by folks that run this planet and somehow humans end up not seeing through it and turning on each other and even turning on ourselves. That's all I ask, is that people take a step back and realize that yes, you’ve got to be the change that you want in the world. You’ve got to change your own health. Then, people start asking you, what are you doing? And then you can teach them. That's really important where you talk about the old saying “Let food be thy medicine, and medicine be thy food.” It really is that simple. 

[01:17:52] Ashley James: Yes. And we need to start questioning everything and stop and go, what I’m doing now is not working. If I am not happy with my health, it’s not working. Not to throw it all out. Maybe some of it is half working. But we need to be able to question our own belief system. We need to stop and go the farming practices are not working. The evaporation rates around the world are causing droughts around the world. This is not working. We need to stop. We need to go back to a farming practice that is sustainable, that is healthy for humans and for the planet and because what’s healthy for the planet is healthy for humans. Let’s go back to how we used to do it a hundred years ago, right, where we cared about top soil, where we didn’t dig deep into the earth and remove the layers that have the wonderful microbiome in there.

So, I love the work that you're doing and understanding more about healthy agriculture that allows us to understand more about how we can create a healthy body. So, there is that direct correlation. I want to know though I’ve heard this a lot. That people are afraid to take trace minerals because of heavy metals. I’ve even heard naturopaths say, “Oh, I don’t give trace minerals to my patients because I’m worried that those trace minerals are going to be full of heavy metals and that this is actually toxic, and fulvic acid is actually toxic.” Now, of course we’ve talked about this, the stuff that comes from coal, yes, I could understand that. But can you please explain how your supplement does not contain these heavy metals that are dangerous to the body?

[01:19:33] Pat Miletich: I mean, anybody that has done even a little bit of investigation and again, this is where people are miseducated. So chemists, doctors, agronomists, having a high-level chemist tell me there's no such thing as organic forms of metal and laughing at me, and they stopped laughing as soon as I educated him on how metals are converted to organic to be bonded with carbon. So, there are drastic differences. Heavy metals are very bad for you. When you have heavy metals such as aluminum and lead trapped in your cells, they're very toxic. They will cause you health problems. Period. End of story. 

But when those same exact metals have been chelated out of the ground by a plant and bonded with a carbon molecule, they now can be used again as fuel by your mitochondria. So, there's a huge difference. And trust me, after 35 years of research, I would not put this stuff in my children’s bodies. And people have to understand I just got done giving a speech, I don’t know, a month ago to the school board here in Bettendorf, Iowa. We’ve been having a lot of problems here Bettendorf, Iowa with the education system, the behavioral issues, a lot of other things. And we’ve got 5 of 7 school board members and a superintendent who are, it’s impossible to explain the insanity that I’ve witnessed when I go and I listen to these people talk. So, I went and I said, “I’m not going to get into the division that’s been falsely created by designed. I’m not going to get into politics. I’m absolutely done with politics. But I’m going to tell you flat out that our children are being systemically poisoned by the food, the water.” I talked about the 22 chemicals in our local water, one of them being atrazine that not only converts the testosterone and estrogen levels of frogs in the wild from runoff and of lab rats, not only destroys their hormonal levels of testosterone and estrogen, but male frogs and male rats actually grow female genitalia. This stuff is so powerful. And I said this is what’s happening to our children. Our boys are being destroyed, our girls are being destroyed. Their hormonal levels are out of whack. They have no clue how they're supposed to feel. Then they're told by you guys that it’s perfectly okay to feel the way you feel, dress the way you want to dress. And it's wrong. Because eventually, these kids are going to end up under the knife of some Dr. Frankenstein. This goes against all laws of nature. Even if you don’t believe in a Creator, it goes against all laws of nature and it’s horrible. It is the mutilation of and destruction of an entire generation of children. And it’s got to stop. And I told them flat out my children have never had a serious illness. When a lot of other kids are getting strep throat, flus, pneumonias, bronchitis, everything else, my kids have never experienced that because I make sure to put powerful organics in their bodies and they are constantly cleaned out and they are healthy as they can be.

So, that's what I want to try and get through to people, is that we have to save our kids and we’ve got to save our planet for those kids because are we going to leave them a toxic synthetic world that’s going to just destroy them? No! We can’t do that. 

[01:22:58] Ashley James: You talked about atrazine. I just recently shared a video with a scientist and his team of scientists about atrazine. One area of California has the highest levels of atrazine than across America. They were testing the water supply, the runoff in the streams near the farms. Incredibly high levels of atrazine. They were collecting the frogs and studying them. The head scientist was showing that look, this frog is a genetic male and he has both genitalia. They were showing that there were two frogs that were both genetically male and they were able to mate and reproduce. He was explaining it. Very fascinating. He goes this is terrifying for the health effects of humans because it is an endocrine disruptor. I think if we take the politics out, and I support children and families, I want them to be the healthiest they can be, and if there's something that’s hidden in their water supply, that they’re drinking, they're trusting their tap water, and I don’t even know if atrazine has been removed when you pour it through a Brita filter or whatever filter you're using that you think removes chemicals. Maybe it’s not being removed. Because there's certain filters that can’t remove everything. Even the Berkey can’t remove nitrites. So there's certain compounds that are so small, they can get through a lot of filters unless of course it’s like reverse osmosis. There's a few ones that can remove everything but they're also removing the trace minerals. So, the thing is, people are going around, trusting their water supply. They're getting atrazine in their body. It’s an endocrine disruptor. Whether that then as a child that’s growing up, all of a sudden now they're not having the appropriate amounts of hormones, which is disrupting them and making them feel very weird. I’d feel very weird if my hormones are being disrupted or like when women get put on birth control, it makes you feel different. It absolutely makes you feel different.

But not only that. And I agree with what you're saying that we need to be very cautious for our children. And it’s in our food, the atrazine is in our food. It’s now hidden in our water because it’s runoff, all these chemicals. But it’s an endocrine disruptor while you are maturing but also past maturity, that is going to cause cancer. That is going to cause other diseases. We see this. We see this that anything that’s an endocrine disruptor affects. We might see on the outside it’s affecting hugely the reproductive system and the testosterone and all the estrogens. But then, it trickles down and it affects because all of our hormonal systems are in this crazy balance, so you're throwing this out of balance. Then we see down the road, increase in childhood cancers. Increase in ADD or ADHD now because it’s disrupting how we function, how our brain functions, how we learn. And you're affecting the child’s future. Everything. You're affecting fertility. So, we need to come back and take control. We need to come back and go, okay, I need clean water, I need clean food, I need clean water and clean food into my families at all times. I need to make sure that we’re getting good clean food that's healthy and I need to make sure I’m filling in those gaps like mortar. You know, bricks are food, the mortar is the supplements. And making sure I’m getting all the minerals I need to optimize our health.

I appreciate that you’ve brought up atrazine because that’s something I haven’t covered on the show specifically. We’ve covered other chemicals but that specifically is so important. We’re seeing girls getting their period younger and younger. We’re seeing 8-year-olds growing breasts. It used to be like maybe grade 8 or 9 that this would happen. Now, it’s in middle school, right? Something’s changed.

[01:27:12] Pat Miletich: You know, it’s funny but it’s not funny. But, you know, somebody as crazy as Alex Jones talked about it, but he framed it completely wrong because he’s such a theatrical lunatic that he would scream “They’re turning the frogs gay!” And he was correct in what was happening to the frogs and the lab rats that they were being destroyed with their hormone levels, but he wasn’t explaining it scientifically what was happening to them and what’s happening to our children that are children are being destroyed. And this is something that, yeah, we’ve got to wake people up and we’ve got to help them educate themselves. And that's what’s frustrating about an education system that is basically almost an accomplice to the crimes that are being committed against our children because they’re not educated in the family, they're not educating the children about what’s happening to them, to their bodies, to their minds and everything else that’s going on and instead are just saying it’s okay, it’s perfectly—it’s perfectly normal that you're being poisoned. So, that's where we’ve really got to change things.

Again, that's the whole thing is I don’t care one way or another what people do with their lives, but we’ve got to have them healthy physically and mentally for them to make the decisions of what they want to do with their lives. If they're sick mentally and physically and are so confused that they don’t know how to feel, they're not making educated decisions for their own lives at all. 

[01:28:46] Ashley James: Well, it’s like this. What if atrazine caused diabetes and obesity? Let’s just say that it caused that. And the school board said, you know, it’s perfectly normal to be incredibly sick and have diabetes. It’s perfectly normal and we’re just going to support this and we’re going to feed you lots of sugar, we’re going to fill you up with chemical processed crap. We’re not going to feed you any healthy food, we’re going to cut out recess. We’re going to decrease PE. Just do everything to support your unhealthy habit and lifestyle, right? And to make sure that you continue to have it. I mean, that is not in any way in the child’s best interest. What’s in the child’s best interest is we’re going to give you a healthy diet, we’re going to support you in reversing type 2 diabetes and increasing insulin sensitivity. We’re going to give you more recess time. We’re going to let you run around and be a kid and be as healthy as possible. We’re going to make sure your food is clean, your water is clean, your air is clean. We’re going to put you in buildings that don’t have mold that don’t have toxic off-gassing. We’re going to just do the best we can and give you a healthy environment. Whatever. The child decides to grow up to be fantastic because they’ve been given a healthy body and a clean and healthy environment—that’s what I want for them. That’s what I want. But they don’t have that right now. And the whole system is designed to keep people sick, so that’s why we have to take matters into our own hands. We have to get the right supplements. We have to get the clean food. We have to be the advocates for ourselves. We cannot leave our health up to any system especially a government system. There is my soapbox and it’s probably why I do homeschooling because I have a strong distrust of these large systems that I don’t feel are out for my child’s best interest.

Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing what you’ve shared. I’m again in awe of your product and of course, listeners can go to Check it out. Try it for yourself. See how you like it. Do what my husband did. Take it for a few days, take it for a week and then go on a massive hike and see what happens. Or just do like me and be like a crazy mom with their head cut off and run around and do a million things like all moms do. Run around all day. And just notice that you don’t have to live off of energy drinks to Starbucks, like I don’t. I just feel amazing. I don’t do coffee all the time. And if I do, it’s one. It’s one little coffee. But I don’t do it all the time. I just feel great. And of course, I’m doing the foundation stuff and I just think it’s so important that we look to everywhere. We don’t just do one thing. We look to all the things. There are so many listeners who want to take their health to the next level and maybe it’s this one where it’s these really powerful probiotics from the earth and trace minerals from the earth to bring their health to the next level. I love that it fortifies the immune system and it helps oxygenate all the cells even more so. It helps the body remove heavy metals. You’ve checked every box on my list. So, the fact that it helps the mitochondria, I’m thinking about people with MS and people with mitochondrial disease and how this could help them. It’s very exciting. People with diabetes, with cardiovascular issues because it helps the vascular system. I think there’s so many people who are sick that could benefit from this in addition to doing all the other good things that are important for our health.

Yeah, Is there anything you’d like to say to the listener who’s struggling with health and just learning about all these changes they could make to get on the other side and just overcome what they’re facing? Is there anything you’d like to say to them?

[01:32:40] Pat Miletich: I can just tell you that I can relate to severe health issues because I suffered as a kid for my entire childhood, again, into my early 20’s. To experience a life-changing event, putting organics in my body and being able to accomplish the things that I have, it was ultimately about changing other people’s lives, not just mine. What I was capable of then to help everybody from little kids to learn how to defend themselves and learn discipline all the way up to adults that just wanted to stay in shape and learn self-defense to professional athletes to military law enforcement. You can change your life. You really can and just take that step. It’s not scary. It’s an amazing adventure when you can wake up one day and go, “Wow, I really can now dream of things that I want to do with my life.” And that's what we want to give you. 

[01:33:33] Ashley James: I love it. Thank you so much, Pat, for coming on the show. Please come back when you’ve got the rest of those studies done. I want to hear it. I want to hear all the science that you guys discover as these studies continue. 

[01:33:46] Pat Miletich: Okay. You got it. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. 

[01:33:50] Ashley James: Awesome. Thank you.


Get Connected with Pat Miletich!




Nov 2, 2022

To get Kristen's transdermal magnesium soak, 
use coupon code LTH at

490: How To Recover From Stress Through Magnesium Soak, Kristen Bowen


Stress is something that is constantly around us and sometimes unavoidable. You need to stay on top of stress levels so they don't get out of control. Learning how to relax is important, but so is getting your body the nutrients it needs to heal itself. In this episode, Kristen talks about magnesium soaks, how to get a better night’s sleep, and managing the stress in our daily lives.



  • Ways to lower stress levels
  • Magnesium soaks
  • Insulin resistance
  • Knowing your “why”
  • Taking care of your circadian rhythm
  • Achieving cell saturation


Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. Today, we have back on the show Kristen Bowen. She is so amazing. She was in episodes 294341, and 381. Although if you haven’t listened to those episodes, you will still enjoy today’s episode. I do recommend though that you eventually go back and listen to episode 294 because she shares her story, and it will bring you to tears in a good way. Let me just give you a little bit of a spoiler. She was about 90-something pounds in a wheelchair, having 30 seizures a day. Now, she’s fully recovered from that. She shares her story as to what caused it and how she got over it, and it will shock you. It is just amazing and sad how many people are suffering out there needlessly. It is people who, like Kristen, who advocate and her family who advocated for her health. I know that’s what you’re doing right now by listening to the show, you're advocating for your health. So, make sure you go back and listen to episode 294. You can always find if you're ever looking for a topic or an episode, you can go to and search it in the search bar. Just type in, for example, magnesium or Kristen Bowen, and other wonderful episodes will come up.

In today’s episode, we do cover magnesium and the way that we can absorb the best forms of magnesium. We also go into recovering from the stress of the last two years and learning from the stressors of the last few years, learning from it, learning from our own stress and learning how to heal, overcome and grow, so that we can be better the next time we’re hit with a stressful situation in life, which I think is so important to learn from each other and learn from our past as well. 

Make sure you go to Kristen Bowen’s website, That's and be sure to use the coupon code that she gives you. She gives a wonderful discount to our listeners. The coupon code is LTH as in Learn True Health. So that’s coupon code LTH at I love her magnesium soak. If you’ve listened to any of my previous episodes, I even talk about it in other interviews whenever we bring up magnesium because it’s made such a difference in my life. And there’s over 200 listener testimonials in the Learn True Health Facebook group. Go there and type in “magnesium soak” and you’ll see so many people talking about how wonderful this magnesium soak is. Listeners have shared that it has help them get rid of their migraines, their sleep problems, muscle cramps, their restless legs syndrome, energy. They got more energy out of it. I definitely notice that my muscles felt relaxed. It helped me with my detox. I’m doing heavy metal detox for the last 4 years. It’s helped me with that. It’s helped me with my liver functioning better.

Magnesium is needed for over 1800 enzymatic processes in the body. It’s the most needed mineral. The second most needed mineral is zinc at 800 enzymatic processes. So, when we think minerals, we always think calcium is the most needed but it’s not even in the top two. Magnesium is the most important. And we’re often walking around completely deficient in magnesium, and that's why a lot of people have these things like restless leg, digestion, adrenal burnout. And the list goes on and on. It’s pretty wild. So yes, listen to episodes 294341, and 381, the past episodes with Kristen. And today’s episode, you're just going to love where we just continue this wonderful conversation of how we can use magnesium to help heal the body. So, enjoy today’s interview, and thank you so much for being a listener and thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about.

[00:04:02] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 490.

I am so excited for today’s guest. We have back on the show Kristen Bowen who, if you guys have been long-time listeners, well, remember my absolute favorite magnesium soak product. And the whole company,, of course, you can use coupon code LTH as in Learn True Health for so many of their amazing products. Kristen, I love your company. You’ve been on the show with episode 294 where you shared and honestly, I dare you guys listen to episode 294 without crying tears of joy and inspiration because Kristen shares her story where she was crippled in a wheelchair and just so close to death, and she was able to regain her health and now she is an advocate to help those who are sick and suffering that no longer need to be sick and suffering. We can gain our health back and we can create optimal health. Kristen’s here to help. She’s like a sister from another mother, I don’t know. I don’t know.

[00:05:17] Kristen Bowen: It’s official, Ashley. We’re sisters. 

[00:05:20] Ashley James: We are, we are. So there’s episode 294, and then there’s 341 and 381. And we talk about all kinds of great things.

[00:05:28] Kristen Bowen: That’s what I love about your podcast, Ashley, is who knows where we’re going to go. 

[00:05:33] Ashley James: Who knows where we’re going to go? We definitely talked about parasites. You know it’s a real good interview when we talk about all the things we can get out of the body, detox and parasites. And I love this that you noticed in your coaching because you do this wonderful group coaching that women who held on to shame and guilt, no matter what lifestyle changes or supplements or diet changes they made, their bloodwork still showed that they weren’t getting the healing that they should be doing based on other lifestyle changes. When they were able to heal and move through shame and guilt and let go of it, that’s when their body then caught up.

So, you’ve observed some amazing things in the many years that you’ve been working with people. 

[00:06:22] Kristen Bowen: Oh, it’s been 20 now, Ashley. Just over 20 years I’ve had the privilege of connecting with the women I’ve connected with.

[00:06:32] Ashley James: And men, you can listen too. My husband loves the magnesium soak. So, men are here too. But, you know, as women, we definitely see relationship between our stress, between our magnesium levels, and between our hormone balance, and I think that’s really interesting. And we’re going to get into that today because Kristen and I, we’ve both been through it as I think everyone has who’s listening. The last two years, there was high, high levels of stress, higher levels than normal. And, now, what we’re seeing after two years of just this background noise of higher stress in people’s lives.

[00:07:12] Kristen Bowen: And disconnect.  

[00:07:14] Ashley James: Yeah. It’s now showing up in bloodwork. And we’re now seeing not just stress hormones and blood work, but we’re seeing other things. So, Kristen was telling me about that before we hit record. And I thought, how interesting. Right now, what we need to do is a mass healing. So, everyone who’s listening is here to gain better health, to learn true health, and acknowledge and heal from the last few years, let it go, and now, we need to heal from it on an emotional level but also on a physical level, and make sure that we’re checking in with our physical body and our emotional mental body, and then making the lifestyle changes, the diet changes that we need to make to bring that healing in so that we can go back to health and then from before the last two years, and even then, even get more health from that. Because I want to be able to use the last two years, even though we’ve kind of sort of stepped back in our health, some people, like I know I have, with the stress that I’ve been under in the recent past, and now I’m back into healing mode. Right? We’re going to be able to take the last two years, learn from it, and then grow even more.

[00:08:34] Kristen Bowen: I love that. 

[00:08:35] Ashley James: Yeah. And there’s something that was taught at our church recently where we talked about how Jesus, there’s times where He would go into the wilderness, he went to the wilderness, and then He goes up on the mountain. Right? And sometimes, we’re in the thick of it. We’re in the wilderness, and that’s when we’re stressed and we’re suffering. Then there’s times we go up on the mountain and that’s when we’re rejoicing, and we’re loving life, and we got a whole new perspective. And so, I’m inviting everyone to walk out of the wilderness, up into the mountain, and learn from the last two years. But right now, today, we’re going to learn from Kristen what we can do to check in with ourselves and to get back up on that mountain of health.

[00:09:23] Kristen Bowen: You know, Ashley, I loved so many things that you said. I love the fact that you talked about and spoke of the different dimensions of healing because I think everyone listening right now could share their hard time. You can share your hard time, I can share my hard time. Your listeners can share their hard times. One of the things that happens as a trauma response, is we stay in one dimension to heal. And it is a trauma response. We need to recognize it as a trauma response so that we’re not stuck in singular dimensional healing because that’s where we get frustrated, that’s where I hear women say, “I’ve tried everything, nothing works”. And we are multifaceted dimensional beings, and we need to heal on all of those dimensions.

Before we get started, can I just tell you, I had never even thought of going on a podcast like that. It hadn’t even crossed my mind. You were the very first podcast that I went on. And Ashley, you’re my favorite. It’s okay to say that, it’s the truth, because right now, I do not have to filter “Oh my gosh, say that in a soundbite. Get done in 30 minutes, they want this podcast over in 30 minutes.” Oh, I can’t even go there because just helping them understand so that they understand that concept, that’d take me 15 minutes and then that podcaster is going to be frustrated. And it’s just so nice, Ashley, to come on to your podcast knowing that it’s not a set place of where we’re going to go in our conversation that you will help me to flesh out anything and everything. So, I am just sending you this big massive, warm, enveloping hug of gratitude for the gift that you have in taking and leading your guests who come on to your podcast. I’m pretty confident that your listeners are sending that right along with me, so thank you. 

[00:11:45] Ashley James: Absolutely. Well, thank you. For listeners who didn’t listen to our previous episodes with Kristen Bowen, in episode 294 I explained how we met. My friend found out that Kristen was flying all the way into Seattle to host…

[00:12:02] Kristen Bowen: Downtown Seattle. 

[00:12:03] Ashley James: Downtown Seattle, in the summer. No one goes to downtown Seattle. You don’t do that.  

[00:12:09] Kristen Bowen: I didn’t know. I didn’t know. 

[00:12:12] Ashley James: It was a free health lecture on magnesium and it was like a Facebook advertisement, my friend told me about it, and I said, “Okay, well let’s carpool down there.” And it was ridiculous because you just don’t go into Seattle in the evening in the summertime. There’s construction, there’s crosstown traffic. It’s ridiculous.

[00:12:33] Kristen Bowen: I think at one point my team and I were two minutes from walking. The Google Maps told us two minutes walking to the thing and we were in our van that I had rented to get everything there. It was over an hour to drive there. It was so bad.

[00:12:53] Ashley James: Right. It’s like New York City. Just get out and walk. So, it’s pretty crazy, the traffic here. So, I just thought it was hilarious. Anyone who knows Seattle, you do conferences outside like you do it in the suburbs. People would rather join up north than drive into it. But there we were in this gorgeous conference room overlooking the sounds, like overlooking the ferries. It was beautiful. The sun was setting. It looked like you spent a million dollars in this place. And like maybe 7 people showed up, I felt so bad for you. But you paid so much attention and gave an amazing health demonstration/health lecture. You let us all soak in your magnesium. And then you answered everyone’s questions and you acted like the room was filled with a thousand people.

[00:13:41] Kristen Bowen: To me, those 7 people who came were as important as 1000 people, Ashley.

[00:13:49] Ashley James: But I’ve hosted these things before. That’s what I used to do. I used to work for a training company, and I used to travel around and host these. I know how much that costs, so I was sitting in the backroom going —

[00:13:59] Kristen Bowen: Yeah, I was upside down. 

[00:14:00] Ashley James: I was like, she has lost a lot of money on this. I’m just sitting in the backroom. Because that’s what I used to do in my previous life, was lead those kind of trainings and book them and budget them and advertise and all that stuff. So, in the back of the room, when I thought it was just so funny because I was thinking to myself, you know, Kristen doesn’t know it yet, but I’m going to expose her to like 100,000 people, and this is going to be so great. Sure enough, at the end of it, I say, “hey, you got to get on my show.” And I felt drunk by the end because I was soaking her magnesium. Now, I’ve done a magnesium intravenous before and it felt like that. I’m like, this stuff is legit. Because I’ve soaked in other magnesium products, didn’t feel a difference. I’ve soaked in Epsom salt, that feels relaxing, but nothing felt like actually getting it in my veins.

[00:14:55] Kristen Bowen: You got to get the real deal, baby. 

[00:14:56] Ashley James: Like the real stuff. So, Kristen’s magnesium soak, to me, felt like I was getting an IV of magnesium and it felt amazing. I’m like, this stuff is awesome. Then I started to have a detox reaction in a good way, and I started to taste heavy metals, then she told me what I needed to do. So, I’ve used it in conjunction with all the other things that I do for my heavy metal detox. I soak in the magnesium while in my sauna, and that’s something I learned from you as well. And it’s a great one-two punch. But I noticed almost immediately feeling better, but what was really cool is our son who fights sleep like you wouldn’t believe, I put it in his bath without telling him, and he was a toddler at the time, and he turned to me and said halfway through the bath, he goes, “Let’s just go straight to bed. You can skip books. I’m too tired. Let’s just go straight to bed.”

And I’m like, what? First of all, who is this kid? So really, this stuff was working and then I had you on the show and then we got over 200 testimonials in our Facebook group of people saying how much the magnesium soak made a difference. And your magnesium cream is fantastic. When I was pregnant, I had like those achy kind of muscles in my legs, almost like restless leg syndrome and I immediately rubbed it with your magnesium, really concentrated magnesium cream. And then, just immediately the muscles would let go.

[00:16:27] Kristen Bowen: I think it’s so interesting to remember that especially when we’re pregnant, we’re now taking the magnesium our body has and ensuring that with the baby. And if you don’t upgrade your magnesium levels during the pregnancy, one or both of you is going to become deficient. So, it’s the critical time to be soaking during that pregnancy. Studies have shown that as the baby comes down the birth canal, that the head bends more easily when magnesium levels are high to get in the proper position for birth. So, magnesium is important always, very important during pregnancy.

[00:17:11] Ashley James: Well, I felt it. Your products have saved me so many times. Another thing I wanted to say was that you have, in the past I bought a coconut powder on your website as an electrolyte. I recommend anyone who likes to build their medicine cabinet filled natural stuff that they can just run to. Having that coconut powder in my medicine cabinet has really helped because there's…

[00:17:39] Kristen Bowen: Ashley, I have bad news.

[00:17:41] Ashley James: No! I’ll just take this out then.

[00:17:47] Kristen Bowen: Well, let me share with you though and then you can decide. So, in 2020, businesses had a decision to make. That decision was, do I change suppliers and sell any kind of junk? Or, do I get real with my customers and say we can’t source the quality that we usually have? And Living the Good Life Naturally, with me being the CEO of that company made the decision that because we lost our supply chain, we were not willing to compromise on quality of that product. What the company sent us was not acceptable. Everything goes through third-party testing before it goes into our warehouse. And so, I made the decision with team Good Life absolutely supporting me that this was not a product we were willing to sell to people. And so, because of that, we are temporarily out of stock of that. We are looking for another supplier but we will not put that back into stock until we find that supply chain that meets our rigorous standard. 

[00:19:03] Ashley James: You know what, I’m not deleting that. I’m not deleting it. I want listeners to hear what you just said. Now there's only two companies. Yours and one other company I know of that's willing to lose money to ensure quality products and it’s rare. It’s such a rare thing for a founder of a company to cut their own profits for the safety and efficacy and for their customer. Right? You’re making ethical decisions that prove to me and this is again why I really love your products. So, when it gets back to stock, I love the coconut powder. It’s a fantastic electrolyte. And you don’t know when you need an electrolyte. There's only been about three times that I’ve needed it. My husband likes to do fast once a year. He does like a 30-day fast. And all of a sudden I’m like, oh, his electrolytes are off and I made him some, and it restored him right away. Then there was two more times during the summer when my son or I, I think we were like at the fair or something all day long and we both became almost like beyond dehydrated. You know what I mean when you're in the sun too long and you start getting headache-y. Man, that stuff immediately brought us back.

So, as far as electrolytes go, that is my favorite electrolyte drink. So, when you get it back in stock, you’re going to have to let me know because that coconut powder. And it hardly tastes like anything. It’s not very strong but it’s all those different trace elements and minerals the body needs to just restore it. So, it’s not just magnesium that has, and I love that you really look at quality. In terms of your skin care lines, it’s stuff that I would make if I was in a kitchen filled with ingredients and I needed to make like a facemask or I needed to make a cream for my face. It’s just all real ingredients that are very pure. So, I really appreciate you.

[00:21:13] Kristen Bowen: Thank you. We’ve lost so many products because of supply chain issues. But here’s the thing. And I think that your listeners might enjoy understanding the concept of when you know your values, decisions are easier. So, in the company, we work every year on our values and fine tuning our values. I am a company, I have to make profit, payroll and keep the lights on—money does not drive my decisions. That is not one of my core values. And so, once you’ve fleshed out your values, decisions are so much easier. That plays for your health also. Knowing your personal values will help you to make those decisions when it comes to your health with more ease.

So in January is what I do every year, is I reassess values and ask myself those questions. “Am I making decisions based on my own personal core values?”

[00:22:30] Ashley James: Absolutely. When I check in with myself, when it comes to my values, I will make better health decisions. I’ll say “No, I don’t want to eat out” even though eating out is fun. It’s easy, it’s convenient, I don’t have to wash dishes after, like I’m tired. All these reasons that sound really good. So, that would lead me to a behavior of eating out a lot. But when I check in with myself and I go “I value my health above all else,” I know the ingredients they put in that food. Don’t put your head in the sand. When you eat out, you're getting the lowest quality foods because restaurants need to make a profit and you're getting a ton of pesticides and those oils and those free radicals, lots of sugar, just highly processed food versus eating at home. Or, I’ll be at the grocery store and something looks good, I will always read the label. I will read that whole label, all those crazy ingredients, and then I’ll decide, is this fuel for my cells? Are my cells going to rejoice at these ingredients? Or are my cells going to shrink, shrivel up, and die from these ingredients? And that's because I value my health. Right?

So your decisions, your behavior and then your results in life are directly impacted by making sure that your values are motivating and driving your decisions. It is always good to check in because sometimes we sort of fall off the bandwagon. I know talking about stress in the last year, losing our daughter, moving twice and then losing a major family member in our little family unit, so we’ve had two deaths and two moves in a year. And I did have some PTSD that was acting up. I’ve never had it in my life until then, but that's why I didn’t know what it was at first. But I was very dysfunctional in my life. Couldn’t even walk into a kitchen and complete cooking a meal. And I love cooking and I’ve been cooking since I was a kid.

So, I was like wow, why can’t I focus, why can’t I cook. I went from publishing 2 to 3 episodes a week to 1 a month. That, for me, was like what is going on? Why am I not functioning correctly? And I was eating out a lot. Because that's the only way I could get food in me because I couldn’t even cook a meal. So that, for me, like at my peak stress and then I had to step back and go, okay, I need to do some triage, do some deep breaths and I need to do baby steps. And that's some coaching I got from this amazing psychologist, Dr. Glen Livingston who’s been on the show multiple times. I just love him. He said, you know, “You need to choose some baby steps. What can you do?” Because of course, I was feeling so much guilt and shame for I am this big health advocate, I love being healthy, but I’m eating out and not taking care of myself because that's all I could manage. 

So, he invited me to figure out what I could do versus what I thought I should do. Right? I had to really scale back. Okay, what can I do? And maybe it’s a 5-minute walk. Maybe it’s just 2 minutes of deep breathing. Maybe it’s just steaming some vegetables. What can I do? And those little baby steps got me back on track. But I love that you said to check in with your values because we can use that in our business to help steer an ethical business. We can use it in our health to help us steer in the direction towards better and better health.

[00:26:11] Kristen Bowen: Ashley, I want to take a minute and just recognize that we mourn to the level that we love and just sit with you. That's a lot that you went through. And just honor all the work that you put in, the support that you had, the trauma, the heartache, the love, the refining that happened for you and your family during that time. We love you, Ashley.

[00:26:49] Ashley James: Thank you. Why I’m sharing and why I’ve always been vulnerable in my show even before all this, is that I know the listener, whoever is listening also has been through it or is going through it. Right? This is a bridge. We are so connected. I want people to feel like they’re being heard and they're being understood, and it’s like, wow, I’m going through to giving them permission to self-nurture, to heal. 

[00:27:24] Kristen Bowen: You know what could be happening right now, Ashley? Could I talk about it for a little bit? Kind of our first little sideways jaunt. So, you experienced like that is so many major traumas stacked on top of each other. Patterns can walk us toward health or walk us away from health. We all carry healthy patterns, and we all carry broken patterns. I’ve watched over the last 20 years as I’ve helped women achieve self-saturation through soaking in magnesium from Living the Good Life Naturally, I have watched women not even be able to see their broken patterns. As they start to bring those broken patterns into the light and heal them, that’s when the flow kicks in and health becomes easier to create. One broken pattern that could have been happening with some of your listeners that I know comes up for me a lot is the pattern of what I call “compare and contrast”.

Now, when I’m buying beautiful shoes, I’m a shoe girl and I love shoes, when I am buying shoes, I am comparing them to other shoes. And I am contrasting them to determine is this a shoe that I’m willing to bring into my closet? Because I’m also someone who operates from the belief that I don’t want too many pairs of shoes. So, it slows me down; I have to be very conscious about my purchasing decision with my clothing and my shoes. And so, I’m comparing and contrasting, and that's an appropriate way to use the pattern of compare and contrast. But if I was listening to you say that and I was in a stressed-out state, but I took that pattern of compare and contrast, I could be increasing my guilt and shame right now by saying, “Oh, my stress isn’t as bad as Ashley’s stress.” So, therefore, what I’m going through, I’m minimizing that like oh, it’s no big deal. Because here’s the thing. Trauma is trauma. Making that change in my business from teaching classes in person to now I spend my day teaching classes online, I can put my body into a trauma mode by sitting too long, Ashley. And it can go back into a dysregulated nervous system because I forgot to stand up every hour and move and make sure that that psoas muscle is not stuck in fight or flight. 

So, there are definitely degrees of trauma when my husband experience double amputation. That's a different level of trauma than me sitting at my desk. But trauma is trauma, and walks us away from healing and focusing on not comparing my trauma to your trauma, but recognizing we all need to be regulating our nervous systems because if we’re not achieving cell saturation with magnesium from Living the Good Life Naturally, is not going to happen as easily. I like that ease and flow. It’s one of the reasons I love coming on your podcast. There’s an ease in the flow to have a conversation, and I want that same ease and flow in creating health. If I’m comparing my trauma to your trauma, I’m just increasing my own personal trauma. Hard is hard no matter what it is ease.

Now, some of it has more complexity, some of it has more layers. But when we’re in a dysregulated nervous system state, it doesn’t matter the food we’re eating. It doesn’t matter the supplements we’re taking. It doesn’t matter how often we’re soaking in magnesium. We’re not in healing mode. And so, making sure that we’re adding layers to our day throughout the day to help keep our bodies regulated, our nervous system regulated is one of those dimensions that you spoke of earlier that if you are not focusing on that right now, you are slowing down your own healing. 

[00:32:25] Ashley James: Yes, stress is stress. I did a recent interview where a doctor talked about how your nervous system and your body and your hormones, they can’t differentiate the difference between stress from your boss yelling at you, stress from eating a fried food, drinking alcohol. Stress is stress. Or breathing in smoke from a nearby forest fire or mold exposure. And the body responds to stress in the same way. Just like drinking alcohol and eating a Mars bar is all the same to your liver really. It converts to sugar and your body still has to deal with it. So, a lot of times when people give up alcohol, alcoholics give up alcohol, they will run to sugar. Go to an AA meeting and you’ll always see sugar at an AA meeting. They’re actually still doing addictive behavior. Luckily, they're sober. They're not sober from sugar but they're sober from being drunk. So, it is an improvement, but they're still feeding the addiction brain and that's still a high state of stress. 

[00:33:37] Kristen Bowen: Can I share one of my favorite tools that pretty much I think all of your listeners would have access to? It has helped regulate my nervous system. And I actually do it while I soak in magnesium. Have we got a minute that we can go there, Ashley?

[00:33:53] Ashley James: We have all the minutes you need.

[00:33:55] Kristen Bowen: Okay, I love that. So, now, please remember I’m not a doctor. I’m not prescribing, I’m not diagnosing. I am not a psychologist. So, please make sure that you are using a strong filter to make sure that this is an appropriate activity for you. For me, it was like a great big deep glass of water on every dimension of my health. But I don’t know what each individual experience will be like, so please remember that. 

Go to YouTube. Put in the search your favorite song that you just, you know, that song. In fact, do you have one, Ashley? Do you have a song that you just love? One of my mine is Hallelujah. I love that song. Do you have a song that you love, Ashley, that you can think off the top of your head?

[00:34:53] Ashley James: I am thinking of a song, but I forgot the name.

[00:34:56] Kristen Bowen: Okay, that's fine. So, one of mine is Hallelujah and I love listening to different renditions of that song. So, if you go to YouTube, and this works better if you have headphones on. You go to YouTube with your headphones on, put in the name of your favorite song, and then put 8D. Now, my experience was incredible, deep relaxation, which when you're soaking in magnesium, if you're in fight or flight, it’s going to take longer for your body, your lymph specifically, to pump up that magnesium through your body because you're in fight or flight. And so, by putting that music on in 8D, it just helps relax me. Now, my husband –

[00:35:54] Ashley James: Did you say N? Could you just explain? Is it like N as in Nancy, the number 8 and D as in dog?

[00:36:02] Kristen Bowen: No. Just the song that you like, so Hallelujah, and then 8, and then D as in dog. So the numeral 8 and then D as in dog. It’s the same song but a different format and different waves for your brain. Now, some people, it will be irritating. So please, filter this to your own experience. If it’s irritating to you, be done. It’s not a good fit. For many people, it is just soothing at the cellular level. My husband is a Styx fan. I cannot tell you how many times that man has driven through the night to go to a Styx concert. He loves Styx. So, I said to him, for those that don’t know, he’s a double amputee recently in the last couple of years. He was born without the proper veins in his body and so, certain parts of his body don’t get enough oxygen and blood, and so, the body part dies. He has a higher level of pain than most people have and experience. So, I’m always looking for things to help facilitate and help him manage his pain. And magnesium is one of those. So, he was in soaking in magnesium, he does it in the tub because he doesn’t have feet, so the tub is the best option for him. I said to him, just put these headphones on and listen to this music. It was a Styx in 8D. He now has headphones on all of the time. And now, in our marriage, I’m like “okay, take the headphones off, talk with me, connect with me, come on, come back to me,” because it’s helped him so much relax. When you find those tools that help you relax, it increases the ability that your body has to hold on to magnesium, to stay at cell saturation, which activates your stored vitamin D to convert to active vitamin D, which is the first gateway we need built for optimal health. So, that simple task of music in the 8D form can be an incredible tool to help you achieve cell saturation faster.

[00:38:40] Ashley James: It makes sense that we absorb less or takes longer to absorb when in fight or flight, understanding that the sympathetic nervous system response of the autonomic nervous system, it shuns blood away from certain areas and puts blood more into the muscle so that we’re running. It gets us ready to fight or to run. It increases insulin so that it drives sugar into the cells and obviously, there's an increase in stress hormones as well. It shuns blood away from the logic centers of the brain so it’s harder to think clearly and make rational decisions, and it’s harder to decide that it’s a good idea to sit down and soak in magnesium. When we’re in a state of stress, we’re like, “Okay, we got to go, go, go,” and then we’re kind of tired and exhausted. Some people go, “Well, I don’t feel like…” This is my husband. “I don’t feel like a magnesium soak right now.” I’m like, “That's because you’re in stress response. I’m just going to put a bowl under you and you're going to put your feet in it, and then by the end of it, you’ll be happy you did.” And he’s always happy he did.

Another thing in addition to listening to the music, and I can’t wait to try that, is doing a specific type of deep breathing that was taught by Forrest Knutson on the show. This is a type of breathing that increases heart rate variability which heart rate variability is, if listeners didn’t hear that episode, heart rate variability is the variation between heart beats, the heart rate on an inhale versus an exhale. If there's no difference in your heart rate when you're inhaling versus exhaling, you are in a high state of stress. Health insurance companies are now experimenting with using this metric to determine life expectancy and whether they're going to give you a life policy or not because those who have good heart rate variability will die sooner basically is what they're proposing based on what they’ve been seeing. So, you want to get your body out of state of stress.

Recently, Dr. Alan Christianson came on the show, talked about a massive study where they followed a huge amount of people for their entire lives. They found that the number one cause of early death was stress. Number one cause. And it didn’t matter what kind of stress. It could be like staying up till midnight every night. It could be smoking, it could be drinking alcohol. But it could just be bad habits like not walking, not breathing, allowing yourself to stay in stress and staying up late at night, choosing to eat the standard American diet. But just stress levels, they saw that if you stay in stress, it all costs mortality, die younger than people who chose to be not in stress or figured out how to not be in stress.

So, I know it sounds like I’m just saying, “Oh, just get out of stress,” right? Just do it. But, it’s little tricks like you said. Closing your eyes, listening to this music. Another thing is this breathing. The breathing is you take as deep of a breath as you can, make sure that you expand your lungs, you expand your ribs, you feel your ribs expand, you feel your tummy expand, you feel your clavicle and your sternum rise, or you're feeling your whole being expand. Then when you think you’ve got to the top of the breath, you can even add a few more ounces of air. But you take about 5 seconds to do this big deep breath and then you take 7 seconds and there's no pause in between. So, 5 seconds in, inhale, inhale, inhale, inhale; and immediately, 7 seconds out, so you're counting, you can do it even longer, but as long as the exhale is longer than the inhale and then there's no pause at the bottom, you’ll then immediately inhale again.

So, if you're doing a longer inhale than 5 seconds, you can make it 7 but then you need to make your exhale 10 seconds. So, you do this and you do that after a few minutes, you’ve increased your heart rate variability and that you’ve taken yourself out of the stress response. So, that's a very powerful breathing technique.

To pair it with sitting in a magnesium soak would be really good because the diaphragm is one of the major components of pumping the lymphatic system, which is all the fluid outside your cells, to get them back up into the circulatory system, into the veins, and back into the arteries. And that's where the body removes all the junk and that's where it brings all the nutrients. That's where all the good stuff happens. So, the magnesium soak comes into our skin, through our skin, into the lymphatic system, and by pumping the lymphatic system, we’re washing the cells with nutrients and taking out the garbage and reoxygenating. It’s so good for us. So, doing that deep breathing along with the magnesium, along with listening to the music, if we can do this every day, we’ve now cut down significantly our stress levels. To figure out how to do something throughout the day to lower stress is so important.

What other patterns do you have that could really help us?

[00:44:18] Kristen Bowen: One thing that I tell my clients, so we had ended up on a trip to Hawaii with a couple of our kids. It was amazing. I said to my husband, if I could do this every month, my stress levels would just be spectacular. He looked at me and he’s like, “Yeah, we’re not doing this every month.” So, I realize in that moment, oh, I need tools that I can do when I have 10 seconds, tools that I can do when I have 5 minutes, tools that I can do when I have an hour, tools that I can look forward to that are a vacation that if it’s a destressing vacation, if you're married up and so my vacations with my husband are incredibly destressing, they're not stressful, and so we need tools that we can apply every day because if I only have the tool of oh, when I have that opportunity to go to Hawaii, my stress levels will drop. That doesn’t happen all the time. So, we need to make sure that we have tools that we can use in a moment and when we have more time so that we have this varied array of tools.

While you were talking, Ashley, I just again found it so interesting that it’s those small moments that get us to where we want to be. The space in between our heartbeat is what determines our health. We can change that through the way that we breathe. It’s the smallest of things that make the most profound difference in the long-term quality of our life. I think that's a good pattern for all of us to remember. We can sometimes be looking for that next new cutting-edge thing to learn, the big tool that we have to save up and buy, but in reality, it’s changing our breath pattern. And that increases the quality and the space between our heartbeat which now we know and science has shown how absolutely vital that is for our vitality. 

You said something else, Ashley, that I would love to dive a little bit deeper. Because I don’t think the connection is talked about enough on the connection to inflammation. We know that inflammation drives disease. We know that inflammation increases pain. And so, with my filter on, with my husband, I’m always looking at things that I can do to help with inflammation. Because if you are someone like my husband who manages pain, that inflammation aggravates it.

You talked about the insulin and going into the cell. We have a problem in our country in that insulin is not going into the cell. The cell is not getting the insulin that it needs because of a cell that hasn’t been made from proper healthy materials. So, the cell knows it needs insulin and it calls out for more, so the pancreas creates more insulin and sends it over to the cell, but the cell is blind to the insulin and so then, we have all this free-floating insulin that’s incredibly inflammatory because it’s not in the right place. So, making sure that your body is seeing, you're at the cellular level that you're seeing the insulin, that the insulin can enter the cell, is so important. If someone ever says to me “I’ve tried everything,” that is what I hear in my language in my head is, “I might be insulin-resistant and not understand it and not have the tools to put into place to walk away from that” because that free-floating insulin is incredibly inflammatory.

[00:48:53] Ashley James: So, I used to have type 2 diabetes and I reversed it naturally. I’ve gone on studying with naturopaths, I’ve gone on to do a lot of coaching around blood sugar balance. When the body becomes insulin-resistant, which like you said, the cells, they're unhealthy cells, there's a few reasons for this, which is quite interesting. One of them being that there are 16 trace minerals required for insulin to open the door to allow glucose in. So, glucose will rise and rise and rise in the blood which is very pro-inflammatory, and the pancreas has to produce more and more and more insulin until it busts the cell open to allow glucose in. It’s opposite of type 1 diabetes being too little insulin. Type 2 diabetes, the pancreas often is fantastic at producing insulin, it’s producing enough insulin for 5 people, but the cells are sick and the cells are not responding to the insulin, so the glucose is rising and rising and rising on the outside of the cell, but the cells are starving on the inside. I remember experiencing this first hand. I was hungry all the time. I had to eat all the time. Every 45 minutes, I had to eat. It wasn’t until I took in trace minerals and I changed my diet and I started walking and within days I felt just this huge shift. But minerals were the first things that stopped the hunger, the constant gnawing hunger, was taking in trace minerals and then the hunger went away first time in years.

That’s the first thing that helps the insulin work with the cells. But when we have high stress, the body is trying to force more glucose into the cells so that we have more cellular energy to be able to run from the bare. So, people are often hyper- and hypoglycemic. They’re just a rollercoaster. So, under stress, they’re a rollercoaster of blood sugar. And then that often with the lifestyles that’s happening today and with stress, people have insulin resistance and don’t even know it.

[00:51:17] Kristen Bowen: Well, and there’s such a simple way that they can look at their bloodwork. And if they're willing to look at the relationships in their bloodwork, not all, but a lot of people are very familiar with a cholesterol panel. If you look at your triglycerides and you look at your HDL, the relationship of those two numbers can give you some data into your body into how insulin resistant you are.  

[00:51:54] Ashley James: Can you explain? I’m really excited to learn this. 

[00:51:57] Kristen Bowen:  Absolutely. So, grab a phone, grab your bloodwork, your cholesterol. You want your triglycerides and your HDL. You take your triglycerides and you put that into the calculator first, your triglyceride number. And then hit ‘divide’ and then enter your HDL number and then hit ‘equals’. That number will give you a feedback. It’s a feedback tool for you to know how deep into how insulin resistant you have become. Because some people on being insulin resistant are like what you experience that you just never felt full. Some people with insulin resistance wake up in the morning and they don’t want any food and so they go all day long without having any hunger pains and they don’t recognize that’s a sign of insulin resistance. Some people with insulin resistance are putting weight on as a spare tire around their belly and they don’t realize that’s a sign of insulin resistance.

And so, it used to be, and it depends on who you listen to and different studies, that you want that number minimum at 1.5. I see women creating optimal health when that number is closer to 1. If it’s in the 2’s, we're in trouble. If it’s in the 3’s, 4’s or 5’s, that’s a fire that has got to be taken care of so that it can be turned around and that communication between the cell and glucose and insulin can be balanced back out to where it needs to be.

[00:53:51] Ashley James: So, what lifestyle changes do you have your clients do in order to see those numbers change? 

[00:53:58] Kristen Bowen: Three things to start with that it doesn’t matter what a person is working on. There are three things that build the first gate of a strong vitamin D panel and the cells working. They soak in magnesium, they achieve cell saturation, they walk in the early morning sunshine. If you get on Google right now and you search for red light machines, you can spend thousands of dollars. I think we’ve forgotten the common sense. The original red light machine is the sun. And that first 2 hours that the sun comes up, the spectrum of colors specifically reduce inflammation in our body and help the insulin and the glucose to do what they’re supposed to do and interact in an appropriate relationship with the cell. So that red light therapy from waking up in the morning, within 2 hours if you can be there as the sun comes up, that’s the most powerful spectrum. And it helps to set that circadian rhythm and it also helps determine how much melatonin your body will produce to go to sleep that night. So, when we start to set that circadian rhythm in our cell, it’s like a wave. I’m able, I live in Morro Bay and so I walk the ocean every day for my walk. There’s that big crash of the wave that comes in and then it gets pulled out. And our cell has that same thing. That circadian rhythm needs to be a great big crash of the wave coming in and then going out. The way that we set that circadian rhythm is when we have strong magnesium levels, we’re walking, we’re in that sunshine and watching the sun come up and watching the sun go down.  

[00:56:03] Ashley James: Love it. I had Dr. Carolyn Dean on the show talking about magnesium. That was a really long interview. So good. And she’s a naturopath and an MD. She’s dedicated her life to magnesium. She says that magnesium is used in over 1800 enzymatic processes in the body. The next mineral or element is zinc at, I think, she said 700. So, calcium wasn’t even in the top 2. In terms of the body needing it for enzymatic functions, magnesium is absolutely the most important nutrient. Now, all the trace minerals and elements are important for the body. If you’re missing one, it’s like building a building and being like, okay, well, but you don’t have any cement. You have everything else but you don’t have cement really. Like, so you need everything. The body needs everything. And unfortunately, so many people are deficient and what they need in the body will take unhealthy substitutes to build because it’s like let’s just duct tape this together and keep going and maybe one day we’ll get the nutrients we need. 

That’s when cholesterol builds up. A lot of cardiologists have come forward and said that cholesterol is actually the body trying to patch up an area because it didn’t have enough building blocks for elastin and collagen. Like vitamin C, for example, is a needed nutrient for elastin. And if it doesn’t have enough of these nutrients, it’ll make patches, kind of like if you had a bike that the tire was ballooning but you didn’t have any tape, you would use glue or whatever. You’re going to use whatever you can to tape it up. And that’s what the body does. The body will take unhealthy heavy metals or halogens and replace and put them in our bones and put them in areas instead of the healthy ones.

So, that’s why every bite of food, I always have to remind myself like pleasure from food, it’s kind of the silliest thing, and we’ve just been so brainwashed and so marketed to. To put a donut in your mouth, for example, what are we building ourselves out of? A lot of sugar, flour, inflammatory foods, oil. Fifty different processed manmade chemicals. Like, what are we trying to build cells out of?

[00:58:36] Kristen Bowen: Oh Ashley, I have a donut story. Can I tell you my donut story? 

[00:58:41] Ashley James: Sure.

[00:58:42] Kristen Bowen: My husband used to work on campaigns. He’d be the manager of a campaign and he’d have a vision. He only did the campaigns that, for example, a school district that he worked on to recall the school district because the kids didn’t have pens and paper but the school district officials were taking private jets and flying their girlfriends to Las Vegas. And so, he wanted to help them recall those people who had been elected to office that were misusing funds. Do you know what his strongest strategy was? 

[00:59:28] Ashley James: Don’t tell me donut. 

[00:59:29] Kristen Bowen: It was. He would come up with different strategies and he’d evaluate, okay, what was the most effective. And here’s what he would do. He would take the opposing team because you’d have two political teams that were working against each other. In his situation, it was usually school boards that had forgotten who they were serving. And so, he would go in and do the recall and when it got down to the wire, he would take his campaign money and buy donuts and send to the other campaign the last week. They would be like, “Oh, who sent all these donuts?” When all those volunteers and all the workers are supposed to be out walking precincts to get their version of the story out, they were exhausted, tired, and couldn’t think because they had eaten his free donuts.

[01:00:26] Ashley James: No! 

[01:00:27] Kristen Bowen: Yup. He scrambled their brains with donuts and it was so effective, he used it every time. They couldn’t figure out like, “Who got these donuts?” “Oh, I don’t know. Here’s all these donuts showing up, though.” And it scrambled. Now, you can talk about whether that’s ethical, you know. But in the end, the bigger picture was, that school district, those people who had been elected to serve children were recalled because he scrambled the other side getting their word out that was actually a lie and broken, and they just wanted to hang onto the money that they had to be able to fly and go and misuse that money. It was used for a higher good because he wanted that money back developing the hearts and minds of children, but that’s how he scrambled the other side, was donuts. And it works, incredibly effective. And then, you take that and you look at our children. And what are we feeding them? We’re setting them up to fail, Ashley, because of the way that we’re feeding them.

[01:01:43] Ashley James: Mm-hmm. Oh, it is so sad. It is absolutely so sad. Go down a cereal aisle and I dare you to find a cereal that doesn’t have any sugar in it and also barley, wheat, rye or oats, because those are highly inflammatory and harmful. I have other interviews about that. 

But back when I was a kid, my mom was super strict when it came to eating clean. I had amazing health. After the age of 6, my mom found a naturopath. It was actually Dr. D’Adamo, the man that created Eat Right 4 Your Blood Type diet. He was my naturopath as a kid and I went from being sick all the time to overnight no longer being sick because he’s like, you’re O blood type, you can’t do dairy anymore, you can’t do sugar, you can’t do flour. I was 6 years old and boom, I remember waking up and all of a sudden, I had energy for the first time in my life. And I’m like woah, this is great. And I could go all day long just bike ride, bike ride. And I couldn’t do that before on the cereal and the cow’s milk and all the junk that I was being fed before. So, all of a sudden now, I was eating super clean and taking supplements and my whole life… it was almost like Paleo kind of. It was like just grilled chicken breast or eggs and lots of steamed vegetables and lentils. That’s what I grew up on. Then, of course, in my teenage years I rebelled, and that’s why I gave myself all those health issues because in my teenage years, completely the opposite and ate the standard American diet.

So, I’ve watched myself go from ill health to really amazing health to ill health, and then I’ve been building my health back up and giving myself amazing health. It’s simple as what meal you choose. So many doctors have done bloodwork and shown that even one meal makes a difference. Because some people go, “Oh, I’ll start that diet next week,” or, “I’ll start eating healthy next week and I’m just going to do this. I’m just going to eat these donuts now and then I’ll start…” But that one meal, just one good meal of steamed vegetables and brown rice and lentils, for example, instead of the burger and the fries, that shows up in your bloodwork right away. Right away. Every single thing you put in your mouth is feeding your cells. Because your body is constantly making new cells. You have over 37 trillion cells. It’s like 37.2 trillion cells. 

And so, millions of cells are dying every day. Millions of cells are being born or being created. Do you want those next 10 million cells to be fed fries and be built out of fries and a milkshake or a donut? Or do you want them to be built out of really nutritious food?

So, we actually will feel good after we start making these choices. So much of it, there’s so many components, right? When we’re under stress, we’re not thinking clearly. We can’t organize. Cooking, it’s like we have to have a break state. We have to get in there somewhere and just make a good choice. Just buy some apples. Something. We got to somehow get a wedge and then go “I need to insert a healthy habit here because I’ve been on a rollercoaster of bad choices because I’m under stress.”  

[01:05:03] Kristen Bowen: Okay, we’ve got to talk about this. Okay. So, I’ve experienced hard times. When my husband, during that amputation, and the one leg was taken and then six wees later, the second leg was taken. Ashley, I was not eating how I normally eat. It was all I could do to figure out how to get the ramp on the house, how to sell the car to get the new car that I’d be able to get him in to remodel the inside of the house, to show up at the hospital and learn the techniques of how I was going to help him get out of bed while I held the fear of I’m losing this man, I’m losing him.

Ashley, I was not out in my garden picking vegetables, steaming them. What I experienced was increased stress because I knew better, but I wasn’t living up to it. So, it kicked in even more stress because of what I know. So, sometimes, my concern is, am I helping to create more stress when people listen, who maybe aren’t in that place right now that they are making the greatest choices?

So, I want to stop right now and I want to share a couple of things that I do and I want to ask you what are some really simple things that you do when life is happening in a way that we’re doing our very best to just hang on. So, for me, stewing apples. When the apples are stewed and that skin goes shiny on an apple, so I just cut it up, shallow pan of water. A cooked apple is actually more nutritious than just eating an apple. It releases the pectin. And when that skin turns shiny, that means your body has access to that pectin. Incredibly healthy, incredibly easy. Apples can sit on your counter for a long time without going bad. Super simple way to stop, take a moment, and increase. And if you don’t have time to cook it, when you’re taking that apple and eating it, chew it really, really well. Chew it so very well and that will increase your health.

So, Ashley, share with me something because I do not want to do a podcast that gives someone more ammunition to throw more guilt on themselves when they're having their own hard time. Because one thing I’ve found that people do is they’ll project on me that during that hard time, I was eating perfectly. And Ashley, I did not. It was all I could do to get the modifications in our home. The insurance kicked him out of the hospital. I had to fight the insurance. Plus, I just wanted to be with him in the hospital. There were times I was eating out of the vending machine just because my caloric intake had dropped so low and there was nothing around me and it was midnight. I didn’t even have enough to take the next step to do what I needed to do. And so, I want to make sure, number one, that people are not projecting that during my personal hard time that I was eating impeccably—because I was not.

You talked about how adaptive our bodies are. When we build, when we take that pattern of building trust and trusting our bodies, and when we build healthy habits like hydration, chewing our foods well, our bodies can adapt. My body had the ability to create health for me even though I wasn’t doing things perfectly. But if our belief is that we have to do everything perfectly to deserve the health, then we never create health. Because our beliefs drive what our body can do. Our body is listening to our internal dialogue, and we are so powerful that it will create what we’re thinking. And if we think, “Oh I can’t have optimal health because I didn’t do everything that I’ve learned perfectly today,” that’s actually a trauma response. You’re in fight or flight. And part of creating health is rebuilding that trust bank with our body. My health got better when I was taking care of him even though I was not doing things perfectly. And I ate things from that vending machine that right now, I would no more make that choice. But at the time, Ashley, truly it was the best choice for me. It was the only choice that I had.

So, that pattern of rebuilding trust with our body and knowing “No, I’m not doing it perfectly. I’m doing the best that I can with the tools that I have in this moment.”

[01:10:31] Ashley James: Yeah. Well, there’s good, better, best. Right? My mother-in-law taught our son the little poem. Maybe you guys should learn this because it’s such a good reminder. Good, better, best. Never let it rest until you’re good is better and your better best.

She taught him that when he was just a toddler. It was so cute too hear his little toddler voice say it. I always have frozen vegetables like an assortment, like the giant bags. I like Costco. Our Costco has got a lot of organic choices. Frozen vegetables, I wouldn’t want to live off of them for the rest of my life. It’s a better choice than fried food and takeout. Okay? So, I always have frozen vegetables that I can grab. Or I actually have a few bags that I’ve made my own where I’ve cut up my own vegetables. Because if you’re like me and you buy a bunch of vegetables and all of a sudden, four days go by and you realize your vegetables are going bad and you haven’t cooked them all. You can chop them all up, put them in a big freezer bag, put them in the freezer, and then throw them in a stew or soup for later, so you don’t have to let them go bad. 

But at a moment’s notice, I can make rice in the instant pot. So, I woke up this morning and the first thing I did is I threw brown rice in the instant pot and I took 4 cups of brown rice, I washed it, rinsed it, poured out the water, and then I put 5 cups of water because it’s 1.25 cup of water per cup of brown rice for the instant pot. If it’s white rice, it’s 1 to 1 ratio of water to rice. And then I set the instant pot on high pressure, seal the lid, high pressure for 30 minutes. And I just hit start. Now, when I finish this podcast, I’m going to go downstairs, I’m going to steam some vegetables. I already have some lentils in the fridge, I’m going to add them to the vegetables. And I have like a tahini. I’m dairy-free so it’s not taziki, but like a tahini sauce that’s really easy to make. Garlic, lemon, water, a bit of liquid amino’s, and tahini, which is sesame paste. I just blend that. That’s really delicious to put over steamed vegetables. And I can do fresh because I have some time this afternoon to be able to prep that. But if I didn’t have time, I can grab the frozen, put it on the stove and have vegetables in a minute.

So, that’s my quick just like throw-a-meal together. 

[01:13:24] Kristen Bowen: Oh, I love that. It’s so important that we have those, that we’ve got things like oh, what can I do in a really quick moment. And I want people remembering the chant “good, better, best”. Because getting healthy is not about eating perfectly; it’s about good, better, best. And I have to throw in, I think every home needs the book Favorite Poems Old and New because it’s got that poem in it. 

[01:13:52] Ashley James: Oh, really? Oh, that’s cool.

[01:13:54] Kristen Bowen: Favorite Poems Old and New is an incredible collection of poetry that is just… I always had my kids memorize poetry, and it’s just got some of our family favorites in it. 

[01:14:07] Ashley James: That's fun. So, when I was under high stress earlier this year, that meal that I just described which is very simple, they’re going to take me less than 15 minutes to make that, that was too complicated for my brain to handle under high stress. I did actually manage to make apple butter. I don’t add sugar to apple butter. I just condense apples on the stove or on the instant pot. It’s like applesauce.

I had just done an interview actually where we talked about how every day we should eat homemade applesauce because it is the number one thing to heal the gut. It heals the gut. He actually explained the science behind it which I geeked out on. But he said just if you can do one thing for your gut health, eat homemade applesauce every day, put it in the instant pot if you can’t by a stove and cook it. That's what I did. I just took the core out, threw it in the instant pot with a little bit of water and just put it on for a few minutes and then let the instant pot do the work. What I would do, if I had to eat out, is here’s a really quick great thing. Any Thai restaurant will have in the back—I’ve never seen a Thai restaurant not do this, so far it’s been every Thai restaurant that I’ve been to—in the back there's side dishes and you can order steamed vegetables and steamed rice.

[01:15:37] Kristen Bowen: And kimchi.

[01:15:39] Ashley James: Yeah. If you're at a Korean restaurant, you could ask for kimchi with steamed vegetables. But there are so many restaurants. I even went to an Italian restaurant and I said I just wanted some really beautiful grilled vegetables. I asked for no oil. So, you can ask for even at a restaurant you could say or takeout, “I just want a bunch of steamed vegetables and some brown rice.” Or even if you're on the road. A lot of people forget that there’s some really healthy choices you can make at a takeout. Wendy’s has a baked potato. You could just order a few baked potatoes. And don’t eat the skins. Skins of baked potatoes, when it’s dry heat, when they bake it, it causes a free radical that’s very damaging to the body. But if you steam it, that free radical doesn’t get created. So, you can eat the skins of baked potatoes when it’s steamed, but when it’s baked, you shouldn’t. Don’t add anything to it. Just eat it. That starch is incredibly good. It gives the body energy for over 7 hours. It’s a slow drip, so it won’t cause you to go into hypoglycemia.

So, there's these little choices that I’d make here and there and I just ask myself is there a better choice. Is there a better choice in this moment? Not looking to be perfect because you're right, I had to catch myself and go, “Wait a second. I’m really creating a lot of guilt.” I’m putting on a mom guilt, I’m creating a lot of wife guilt, I’m creating a lot, you know, health coach guilt. I’m just creating a lot of guilt not making these amazingly amazing excellent choices because I was just having to keep it altogether. Right? Keep my family together and keep everything functioning. So, I had to go, okay, what’s the best choice I can make in this moment? Then I had to find peace in that. 

[01:17:29] Kristen Bowen: And that’s the part that you can only claim for yourself and you can say that you’ve done it. But then you need to check in with your body and feel that your body is not in fight or flight. Because if you don’t do that part that you just talked about, taking action on it, Ashley, you’re still in fight or flight. And we have the most educated sick people walking this planet than we’ve ever had. We’ve got the education. There’s so much that we can learn. But we’ve got to take it and put it into action. And the gap of our education and our action is creating a fight or flight, or freeze or fawn state. And that's what we’ve got to close down as a society. 

[01:18:19] Ashley James: And I would say what I found really helpful was always having snacks in my purse and in the car that were incredibly healthy. So, the apples, you could just have a bag of apples in your purse. I’d always have apples, I’d have healthy snacks for my son always. Always, always, always I have a big pile of healthy snacks for him. This is not processed food. I’m thinking like nuts and clean trail mix. Organic. Always buy organic apples. Always buy organic nuts. They did tests on conventionally grown apples and found that there's at least 50 pesticides, 50 different chemicals that they could detect on conventional apples that’s really hard for the body over time. So, I’d rather choose an organic over non-organic when that choice is available.

Then, algae. Spirulina and chlorella. I love I’ve had the founder of that company on the show several times and just having a handful of chlorella or spirulina with some nuts, just throwing that in my mouth, that is actually sometimes a meal replacement. It’s an incredible amount of protein and available nutrients. So, just being able to do that on-the-go, really helpful. Those healthy proteins from nuts and from chlorella and spirulina, protein helps the body with stress. My chiropractor who is just such an avid, every time I talk to him, he’s like, “Make sure you're eating protein. Just a little bit of nuts or little bit of lentils or something,” because protein, he sees it that it helps to regulate the stress response. So, those little habits.

But the big thing was for me, and not everyone, it’s about 1/3 of the population deals with addiction, and for me, I’ve got addiction brain. And checking in with myself because in times of stress, I want to self-soothe. I want to go for something. Not now but in the past, I’ve gone for those crazy, sugary drinks at Starbucks, for example. I’m not into alcohol. I was a bartender, so that's not my thing, but going for something that is like potato chips, chocolate bar, something that is going to increase the dopamine response that’s going to get my brain jacked up to help self-soothe when I’m under stress. So, a big bowl of noodles, a big bowl of some Asian noodles, that's like my alcohol, basically. To the liver, it’s the same thing. It’s quick sugar to the body. 

And so, in those times of high stress, I needed to step back and go “Is this choice me self-soothing? Is there a better choice I could make to regulate my emotional state and my stress?” Because when we self-soothe with sugar and with food and with an addiction, we actually are checking ourselves into a rollercoaster ride for the next 24 hours. Because I eat that bowl of noodles, I end up having bad sleep. The next day, my stress is even higher. Same with alcohol, same with that sugary coffee drink or same with that choco bar or that ice cream. Whatever we’re choosing to self-soothe, that putting in our mouth to self-soothe or that donut, whatever we’re choosing. And people will be like, “Oh, I’m celebrating. Let’s go out for pizza and wings” or whatever. Like, “Oh, I’m celebrating.” Or, “Oh, I had such a stressful day. Let’s go out and get this.” Right? Whatever it is that we’re putting in our mouth or the activity that we’re doing that we know is an addictive activity, that is going to make our stress levels even worse.

I have a family member who always turns to wine. I keep talking to them about it in a gentle way and I say, “I know you're under high stress, I know you're on antidepressants. I know you're on anxiety meds.” This person keeps talking to me about not wanting to be on them anymore and I say unfortunately, alcohol, you go… and she’s admitted to this. Alcohol in the moment makes you feel good. That's why she goes to it. But the next day, she’s wrecked. She’s not even drinking a ton. It’s like two glasses maybe. But it causes our body to go through even more stress for 24 hours after. So, that's the thing for me when I’m dealing with stress and when I’m healing from it, is checking in with myself and going, is this the best choice I can make right now? And, is this choice a self-soothing choice? Or, is this actually a nourishing choice?

[01:23:22] Kristen Bowen: Ashley, you and I are very similar in that addictive brain. And two foods, well, one’s not a food, two things that I have cut from my diet entirely because I didn’t understand how deeply triggering they were for me in craving other foods that didn’t support my health, and one is natural flavors. It excites my brain and it gets it looking for things that cannot be found in nature. So, I do everything I can to avoid those natural flavors and it decreased my cravings. The other is Stevia. Now, for some people, Stevia is great. For me, it just triggers me wanting more and more sweet things and looking everywhere to get that sweet thing. Now, I do use other sweeteners but Stevia, for me, is a trigger. So, I think it’s so important as each of us are on our individual journey that we recognize that part of this journey that we’re on in supporting our bodies is learning what your triggers are. And those two, for me, staying away from them as much as possible has been a gamechanger in my ability to not be driven by cravings. 

[01:24:50] Ashley James: At the moment it doesn’t even feel like you're craving, right? Because let’s say having to drive to and from the hospital, taking care of a family member, taking care of a sick kid, it’s like go, go, go. You're just trying to get some food in you. Then, you're standing in front of, maybe you're looking at the menu at the restaurant or at the hospital, or you're looking at that vending machine. The moment you just need to put the best choice in you as possible, right, because it’s maybe that apple in your purse and that's a great choice.

[01:25:21] Kristen Bowen: I have a hospital go pack now. And it literally is packed in my car foods that do not perish so that I never have to be in front of a vending machine feeling that desperately hungry with that being my only options. I just call them my go-bags and I’ve got them in all my cars. So, I never have to be in that position again. But I made that position worse because of the stress that I experienced over the options and what was going in my mouth. That’s where I needed help from your son chanting “good, better, best”. Just make the best choice that you can, Kristen, and move on. Instead of buying into perfectionism, which we know is driven by shame and guilt. And so, wrapping that together has been such an important realization for me and not buying into perfectionism, which means for me, I’m not letting shame and guilt drive my decisions. 

[01:26:32] Ashley James: Yeah. Exactly. And so in front of that vending machine, you’d never put yourself in front of the vending machine under regular circumstances.

[01:26:42] Kristen Bowen: No, never.

[01:26:43] Ashley James: With a menu in front of a restaurant or in front of a hospital restaurant. In normal circumstances, there’s times, or maybe you're at a potluck or at a banquet or something. You need to make the best choice in that moment and there's things you wouldn’t normally eat. I had to check in with myself and go, I want to make the best choice that I have given the limited options, and I also want to make sure I’m choosing something that isn’t going to feed into my addiction brain, or isn’t being chosen by my addiction brain. Because there are times when it’s like oh, ooh, we’re at this place and they have these choices. My addiction brain goes “Ooh, good. We get to indulge.” And I have to rein myself back in because that is a rollercoaster. I don’t want to go down. I think the movie’s called Leaving Last Vegas. I just see that spiral down through alcoholism. I just remember that. That image comes to my mind that there's this little addiction brain in me that just wants to get completely trashed, but it's on sugar or it’s on Asian noodles or something. Or it’s on some kind of pleasurable food or donuts, right? Or pumpkin spiced lattes. Whatever it is, it’s a spiral that then causes my entire body to have inflammation, have bad sleep, have bad energy, and then I have a short fuse.

My interview with Joan Ifland was really good. She’s a PhD in processed food addiction. She talks about how when we are using a substance, it can be sugar, it can be flour, it can be eating fries, it’s the weirdest thing but when we’re using to up the brain chemicals, then we have a shorter fuse and we’re quick to anger. I’m just sort of summarizing it but when she described it, I could see in both my parents, their struggles with food addiction, their struggles. And I wouldn’t say they’re alcoholics but they would come home and my mom would have 1 or 2 shots of vodka and they’d split a bottle of wine. They were never drunk but you could tell it was going towards a substance to regulate your stress, to regulate your emotional state. I liken it to as a baby needs a binky or a blanket or a toy to soothe them if they don’t have the mom’s boob, right? We’ve all seen it, right? The baby wanted its blanket or the toddler wants its blanket or its binky. And we never really grew out of that. Not everyone but a lot of people. They say, statistically, 1/3 of the population has this propensity, their brain has this propensity to do this. And we have to catch ourselves and ask ourselves is there that little addiction brain in me looking for its binky? And catch ourselves and go, okay, if I eat a food that triggers that or feeds into that addiction brain, I’m going to put myself in that rollercoaster for the next 24 hours. I don’t want to be put on that rollercoaster because I’m already under stress and so I want to make the best choices for me to maintain my health levels.

JJ Virgin was on the show, this was a few years ago and she had to live in the hospital where they didn’t think their son would make it. A car hit him at 50 miles an hour. Every bone in his body was broken. They had to fly him to a special hospital and I think they had to fly him to a second hospital. It was ridiculous. He had a feeding tube. She was sneaking supplements down his feeding tube. But she shared in that interview how she maintained her sanity by choosing the best foods possible in the menu at the hospital and she would take breaks to go walk up and down flights of stairs because she knew that sitting the whole day by her son and then eating the junk food at the hospital, that she could not be in peak performance emotionally and mentally to be there for her son.

I’ve actually had feedback from a listener who said that that interview, there were three different interviews but that interview and then two others helped her save her mother’s life when her mother was dying in the hospital. They were able to save her mother’s life. And she said that strategy of get up, walk some stairs, drink some water, make sure you're hydrated, make sure you're eating the absolute best food. If you're only eating fruit, that's better than the fries, right? A handful of nuts and some fruit is so much better. But making those good little tiny baby step choices to keep you on the top of your game so that then you can handle and ride the stress as best as possible and do things like the deep breathing, the walking. I love that idea of getting up in the morning with the sunlight, with the red light of the sun, and save yourself thousands of dollars with a red-light machine.

[01:31:57] Kristen Bowen: It’s the OG of red light. You know, the pattern, I’m always looking for patterns, Ashley. That pattern of learning how to take care of yourself in any situation is so important. The other thing that I was thinking that you really highlighted pattern-wise, was the pattern of making decisions in a way that support our health. Okay, I’ve decided this good but now I’m going to be stressed because I didn’t soak the nut to get rid of the problems in the nut. You made that decision strongly and you did the best that you could in that moment.

Also, another pattern that I thought of that you highlighted was knowing your why. I am very driven by my why and my choices. One of my why’s is I want the physical strength to be there for my husband. His body does not have the benefit of oxygen and blood like my body does. It’s a higher maintenance body. I love having that ability to massage him down and use some different melt massage techniques at night for 60 to 90 minutes every night. If I’m not caring for my body and putting myself first in some experiences in the morning especially, then I don’t have it to give to him. So, knowing your why, not just “Oh, I want to be healthy. I want more energy,” but specifically, what will you do with that energy, how will you utilize. When you get to the why of the why, that’s what starts to motivate and change the behaviors of what you're doing during the day. If “Oh yeah, I want to be healthy, I want more energy,” why? Why? Because I love climbing trees with grandchildren. I love being able to take 90 minutes at the end of an incredibly full busy day and still have the capacity to take my body and put every ounce of my being into massaging him and helping him manage his pain.

So, knowing your why and being connected to it helps to drive just like your value. Knowing your why and your values and being deeply connected to them, number one, helps you maintain your magnesium levels because we know that’s the first foundational piece of creating health, because that magnesium activates stored and active vitamin D, and then it helps you to become deeply connected to your why and your values. 

[01:34:57] Ashley James: I love it. When I do coaching, most of the time it’s with women. Most of the time, we talk about their life, their day like tell me about your day. So, you wake up and what you eat. Like, tell me about your routine. Most women go to bed way later than they should. 

[01:35:21] Kristen Bowen: Which crashes their circadian rhythm, which creates disharmony in their hormones. But then we’re all going “Oh, I want better hormone balance, I want better hormone balance. I’m willing to spend thousands of dollars over here,” when in actuality, get your butt to bed on time. Really. Said with love. My grandma vibe just came out. It’s official. But really, we’re saying “Oh, I want this, I want this.” Are you taking care of your circadian rhythm? It's the foundation of your health. It will determine your heart rate variability. You get up with the sun and you go to sleep with the son. And that sunlight from being outside with that sun sets that circadian rhythm. It’s not found in going and buying a supplement. It’s found in your basic daily habits.

[01:36:20] Ashley James: Yeah. So, the biggest thing, with these women, and the biggest reason, and I think that a lot of listeners can relate, they get their kids to sleep or their spouse is doing whatever, their house is finally quiet and it’s their alone time, and it’s like, well, after 10:00 or after 11:00 is my time. So, they’ll stay up until midnight or to 1:00. I had a friend that stayed up until 4:00 AM the other day reading a good book. And I’m like, I’m all about reading good books, but get your butt to bed. Or Netflix or whatever. And I’ve done it too. The problem is, is that if you are aware past 10:30, and it doesn’t matter what time zone you're in, it’s kind of cool and weird how the body works, but 10:30, if you're still awake at 10:30, you get a second wind. You ever notice that you're tired at 9:00. At 9:00 PM you could be like, yeah, I could go to bed now. And then you're “But I have to do the dishes and I have to do this, and I got to put the kids to bed, and I have to send that email,” or whatever. “I want to watch that TV show.” Then at 10:30 or 11:00, you're like, “Oh, I’m awake now. Now I’m going to clean the toilet or I’m going to clean the kitchen or I’m going to…” whatever, go watch more TV or I’m going to work out. 

The problem is, like we were tribal people for many generations and the person that had to stay up and guard the tribe while everyone else slept, they got the second wind. They’re sitting around the campfire watching for the lion or whatever. So our biology will kick into stress mode to survive. If you stay up past 10:30, you’ll get a second wind of cortisol, which tells the melatonin to go away. Because they’re opposite. So melatonin tells the body to fall asleep, it doesn’t make the body fall asleep, but tells it it’s time to fall asleep. It’s an antioxidant. You want your melatonin up there. 

[01:38:16] Kristen Bowen: You create melatonin in the morning. It’s determined that two hours in the morning of sunlight determines the quality and the quantity of your melatonin that your body can kick in that night. So truly, your sleep starts with how you spend your morning.

[01:38:37] Ashley James: I love it. So, the best thing that my clients have done, the ones that do, oh my gosh, it’s lifechanging. I say, okay, here’s the deal. I had this one client who she ran her own business, she said, “Listen, I do all my emails at night after I get the kids to bed.” I said, what if, just what if, I said, how long does it take you to write these emails, like come on. She goes, “Well, I’m so tired, it takes me longer to write them.” I said, exactly. You're not putting your best brain power in your business because you're doing it at 11:00 at night. So, I said, eat dinner with the kids at 6:00 or the bedtime routine starts at 7:00, get them all into bed at 8:00, fall asleep by 9:00, you and the kids. Then, you wake up, because kids will sleep for like 11 hours, they should. If your kids aren’t sleeping for 11 hours, then they're not going to bed early enough. You’ll wake up at 5:00, you’ll wake up at 4:00 or 5:00. If you go to bed at 9:00, you’ll wake up at 4:00 or 5:00, you’ll feel amazing, really refreshed. You go downstairs, make yourself breakfast, drink a big glass of lemon water and sit there on your computer. And she goes, it was amazing. She was, “I had a good three hours of me time and I was at 100 percent energy and mental clarity.” That was more productive better me time than the at night. But the thing is, if you are one of the people that’s the 1/3 of the population that has the addiction brain like I do, that addiction brain will try to take over and convince you it’s fun to stay up late. “Oh let’s just watch another show. Oh, come on.” That addiction brain is looking for more and more dopamine and will try to keep you awake, so you have to talk to yourself and go, okay, it’s now 9:30, I’m getting into bed with a good book, not the cellphone. Or, I’m going to listen to a podcast but don’t look at the cellphone. Get into bed at 9:30 and try to be asleep between 10:00 or 10:30. Then have an earlier morning. All the stuff you like doing late at night, do early in the morning, and you go for that walk in the morning to set the tone for the next evening. But that is a way to significantly lower stress in the body. 

What this last year of the last two years has taught me, is my sleep is one of the most important things to me, and that's where I put myself first is to make sure I’m getting to bed. My husband sometimes, the thing is he can lie down and he’s immediately asleep, snoring right away. So, I got to get in bed before he falls asleep. Otherwise, he’s snoring every side of me. But yeah, that's it. Just putting yourself first, putting your health first and knowing that it’s going to set you up for an amazing day the next day. Sometimes, if you have adrenal fatigue, sometimes that takes time. I have a friend who says, you know, I did that, but I’m still tired the next day. I’m like, yeah, well, it’s going to take those baby steps. We got to get your magnesium up, soak in the magnesium to full cell saturation. We need to shift your diet so that your cortisol, insulin and your glucose are all in this harmony together, and decrease the stressors. But the sleep is so important earlier in the evening, falling asleep, and then just do all the fun stuff you want to do at night, do it in the morning. 

[01:42:10] Kristen Bowen: So, I love staying up late. I know that I feel better when I’m in bed early. So, the compromise, like there's optimal and then there's life. So, for me, over the years as I’ve tracked and I’ve always watched my heartrate variability and I track my temperature and all sorts of things, I’ve found that once every 10 to 12 days, I can handle a late night without my data dropping or changing too drastically. So, that way, it doesn’t kick me into all or nothing thinking. Because when I’m there, that’s being driven by that perfectionism and shame.

So, it’s okay with the fact that I stay up late every once in a while. I just know I don’t do it often and then that way, I’m not driven and triggered back into fight or flight. Because if you're being driven by that guilt and shame, you are in fight or flight. So, by giving myself permission to do it imperfectly, it helps to keep me out of that fight or flight which helps decrease the rate that my body is burning up that magnesium because I want my cell saturation at 6.3 or above.

[01:43:36] Ashley James: Right, right. And we talked about blood tests or getting blood tests. On my website down in the sidebar, if you're on a cellphone it’s all the way at the bottom, there’s a link to a lab that you can buy your own labs. If you’re in the United States, you can buy your own labs and I believe you can buy the magnesium RBC lab which is about $40 to $50. 

[01:44:08] Kristen Bowen: Almost always a coupon out for it.

[01:44:12] Ashley James: Yeah, you can look for that. But it’s not incredibly expensive. And that's kind of a hard test to get a doctor to do, which is annoying, but you can just buy it yourself and then go to LabCorp, go to Quest with that receipt from that company and then you can get it. Same with the cholesterol labs. It’s good to look at labs because it checks us in with stuff that we don’t feel in our body. But also, not a good thing to stress about. So, labs don’t really help if you don’t know what it means. Right? So, a lot of times we’re going to the wrong kind of doctor because MDs are not trained in nutrition, they're trained in drugs. The best thing to do is go to a functional medicine practitioner or go to a health coach that’s trained in it or go to a naturopathic physician that’s trained in looking at labs through the lens of how can I help you achieve optimal health. I love all doctors, I believe they want to help people. Their education, MDs have a lens that they look through that informs them. What they do is they look to see what drugs they can put you on, they are not taught how to help you achieve optimal health. Unless they went after medical school and took extracurricular activities and became like a functional medicine practitioner, MDs are not taught how to help us achieve true health. They're taught how to help us save our lives. I love them for emergency medicine, absolutely. But we have to know when to take our body to the right practitioner.

And going to an MD for chronic illness to get better and to get so healthy you no longer need medication oftentimes doesn’t work because they're not trained to do that. They're not trained to get you so healthy you don’t need medication. Just like you wouldn’t take your car to a plumber, you got to find the right practitioner. Then labs are a really great tool but also, we have to check in because I tend to feel the guilt and the shame comes up when my labs aren’t perfect-perfect. But I also rejoice when my labs are great. So, I also have to check in and go okay, this is not who I am, my labs aren’t who I am. Just like a diagnosis is not who you are, diabetes is not who you are. It is a manmade construct of a set of parameters that they have detected and you can change those parameters so you no longer are labeled diabetic. Right? So, you are not your diagnosis, you are not your labs. These are all feedback to help you on your journey. We have to really check in and make sure that we’re not putting ourselves down when we’re looking at this information in front of us.

[01:47:12] Kristen Bowen: So, I love to look at labs as neutral data. When I get on the scale, it’s neutral data. Now, I didn’t always look at it that way. So, please know that was a huge journey for me on healing that relationship. It’s neutral data. We’re asking for feedback and what I was doing was throwing a fit about the feedback. So, instead of throwing the fit and putting it into fight or flight, I’m looking at it as neutral data. For some, that comes easily and for some, we’ve got to build a relationship of healing, take that healing journey back to the point where it’s neutral data.

I think there's a lot of confusion, I’d like to touch on just really quickly about the magnesium testing for cell saturation. Number one, they don’t even throw out the number anymore of 6.3 because years ago, nobody was hitting it and so they dropped the standard. I’m not dropping my standard of cell saturation because the rest of the country is not eating how they should. So, I still hold myself to that old standard of 6.3 or above.

Number two, I’ve had a lot of people email in lately about oh my gosh, my test came in at 2.1 but they said that was fine. They’re looking at blood serum. So, you want to make sure it’s not serum but red blood cell. Then the next one is, there was new magnesium testing. Ashley, I was so excited because I thought oh my goodness, easier to do, less inexpensive, but it’s not ready yet. So, there's a lot of people jumping on about testing your magnesium through your urine. So, I bought a bunch of them to just test and evaluate because I thought oh my gosh, I cannot wait to share this with my clients and it is so inaccurate. I would take one strip and it would tell me I was low. I would test it 10 minutes later, it would tell me I was high. And it was actually an investor out of San Diego that really blew this company up. I think eventually, the science will be there that we can accurately test magnesium levels through our urine, but at this point, it’s just not sound and solid enough. So, the gold standard is, the magnesium red blood cell test. 

[01:49:53] Ashley James: Yeah. That's really good to know. Going into the 30-day challenge, we talk about this in episode 294341, and 381, so listeners, definitely want to go back and check out those previous interviews with Kristen. You do a 30-day challenge. And you don’t have to do a blood test. I was too excited. I’m like impatient. So, I just jumped in and did a 30-day challenge and I felt it in my body so I knew it was making a difference. I saw it in our sleep and I saw it in my energy, and I saw it in my detox. I just feel fantastic. Some people, when they do your magnesium soak, which is really easy. You get a bowl that’s not plastic. So anything that’s not plastic. It could be a bowl from the kitchen big enough for your feet or a pan like a roasting pan. We went to a kitchen supply store actually and got like a chafing dish that’s metal. I have a big glass bowl and sometimes we just use that. Whatever’s kicking around that’s big enough for your feet, you're just putting enough water to cover your feet. You don’t have to go all the way up to your ankles or calves. Then you're putting a quarter cup which is 2 ounces of the magnesium soak in the water and you sit there, it can be any temperature of water although I personally like hot water, but in the summer I’ve done it with cold water and I got the same results. It’s really good to move your limb beforehand, so walking up and down the stairs, doing some jumping jacks or bouncing on the rebounder or going for a walk. But if you can’t, then just doing some deep breathing while you're in the soak. I like to tell people to do it for an hour, but half an hour, I think you said you uptake about 70 percent of the magnesium you're going to absorb in 20 minutes.

[01:51:34] Kristen Bowen: In 20 minutes, the average absorption of the elemental magnesium was 80 percent. In 45 minutes, the average absorption of the elemental magnesium was 98 percent. Realizing that's going to vary a little bit from person to person, depending on inflammation levels. So if your inflammation is high, then that's going to change a little bit. But on average. 

[01:52:04] Ashley James: I just like telling people to do it for an hour, you know. If you can do it for 45 minutes, do it for 45 minutes. If you can do it for half an hour, do it for half an hour. Definitely do it longer than 20 minutes. But if all you have is 20 minutes, you're up-taking a lot. I throw it in my son’s bath and his baths are 20 minutes long. He’s a kid. So he just wants to go do something else. But he absorbs it and he gets better sleep. So, I see it.

We had a family member who was in hospice and doing magnesium soaks, decreased his pain significantly. He went from moaning, moving was very difficult for him, he was in so much pain. We do a magnesium soak and then he’d just be walking. Sometimes, he wouldn’t even use his walker. And we’re looking at him like, are you kidding me? You were in pain all day and after a magnesium soak he’s walking around like nothing, no pain at all. It was really cool. We couldn’t really get him to talk about it like hey, how’d you like it? He’d be like, eh, it’s okay. But then we’d walk around and he wouldn’t moan. I thought that was really interesting because times he would sit, he would moan and then sit and then stand. He’d be like “ugh…” the whole time, he’d be moaning. It was so sad, we just wanted to take his pain away and he was refusing pain meds. He was in hospice care and he’s like, “I don’t want to become addicted to them.” I’m like, I can appreciate your principle; however, let’s get your quality of life up at this point.

[01:53:31] Kristen Bowen: That's a tough one though. That was a real challenge for my husband especially because he comes from a family that there’s been end-of-life was because of addiction. So, that can be a real challenge for people in how do I balance this pain and not become addicted to that. So, that can be a whole journey for somebody.

[01:53:56] Ashley James: We saw with the magnesium that it made a huge difference in his quality of life. He wasn’t doing anything else for his health. When I work with the magnesium soak and with clients, they're doing a lot of changes at once. But to see how drastically, how much it helps someone who is not eating healthy, who is not making any changes to their lifestyle and the only thing they did was magnesium soak, it significantly lowered his pain. I thought was really cool. 

[01:54:24] Kristen Bowen: You know, Ashley, when you were talking about that, it connected me to something you said earlier that I want people to understand. You commented calcium’s down the list of things that we need. When we become magnesium deficient, we become calcium dominant. So, take someone who experiences chronic pain, it puts them in fight or flight which drains the very magnesium that they need and then they become calcium dominant. Then, what happens, those pain receptor sites stay open because of calcium dominance. So, magnesium becomes so, I mean, it’s important, it’s foundational. Someone who’s in pain is going to need more soak time in magnesium because we’ve got to walk away from the calcium dominance so the body can shut down the pain receptor sites that get stuck and open with the feedback loop being always having pain.

[01:55:35] Ashley James: Exactly. It’s incredible for pain. Asthma, for example, my son, this was a few years ago. We took him to Children’s, he was in respiratory distress. It was like 10 out of 11 respiratory distress. All these doctors are rushing around this emergency room and they’re hooking him up to an IV. They’re about to put something in his body and I said, “Stop, I need informed consent,” because I had no idea what they're putting in his body. And I wanted them to save his life but at the same time, I also need to know what’s going on. The doctor looked at me and she took her mask off, this was more than 2 years ago, she took her stuff off so we could make eye contact and make an emotional contact and she smiled. And I’m like, woah. Because I was expecting her to get angry and she was, “Oh, okay.” Then she started explaining what was going on. You have to say to doctors “I need informed consent.” They have to perform this where they need to tell you the benefits of the procedure, the downside to the procedure, and the alternatives to this procedure. She said, “We are giving your son magnesium intravenously because magnesium is so important for the body.” In some cases, when children or adults even are in respiratory distress, the muscles in the alveoli and the lungs are spasming and the way to release them is through magnesium. Muscles in your body, when they don’t have enough of that magnesium because magnesium relaxes muscles and calcium contracts muscles. So when you have that neck tension, when you have the cramps or your eyes twitching or you have restless legs, that's magnesium deficiency. That's an imbalance of magnesium to calcium. And I was so happy to hear the first thing that they were administering at Children’s Hospital to our son, was a bag of IV magnesium. How cool was that? It wasn’t a bunch of drugs they were trying to pump him with. I was so grateful. I was like, okay, go ahead! Give him magnesium, that's great.

[01:57:48] Kristen Bowen: Many hospitals when you go in with symptoms of a heart attack, that's what they’ll do for you because they know the magnesium will relax the heart muscle. Yeah. 

[01:58:00] Ashley James: It’s so important.

[01:58:01] Kristen Bowen: It is.

[01:58:03] Ashley James: I was just reading an article about magnesium deficiency in adults who are prone to A-fib, to going into atrial fibrillation where the upper part of the heart is beating rapidly and out of sync with the ventricle, with the lower part of the heart. So, that's dangerous because it can cause clots in the body and cause strokes. They’re analyzing why do some people go in and out of A-fib or why are some people jumping into A-fib whereas others don’t. One of the causes, they saw, one of the similarities was that people who had chronic low levels of magnesium were more likely to enter A-fib than people who had a history of A-fib and got their magnesium levels up were less likely to reenter A-fib. So, I thought that was interesting. 

[01:59:04] Kristen Bowen: It’s that foundational mineral. It’s not the only mineral. It’s the mineral that we start with to put the pieces and the gates back together to create a strong foundation. Ashley, I could get it for so cheap out of Utah, I won’t because of the arsenic levels. Right now, Utah has got some problems happening because there are water issues and they're in a drought. The arsenic is just being exposed like crazy. Well, of course I could get that really, really inexpensively, but I’m not soaking in magnesium to increase my arsenic levels. I could get it from Russia for pennies, but that's very high in heavy metals. I could have lab-manufactured magnesium. That's not why I carry magnesium. I carry magnesium to help clients achieve cell saturation. Currently, undiluted sea brine from the cleanest source in the Zechstein Sea is the best magnesium available to help you achieve cell saturation.

[02:00:20] Ashley James: Yeah, well, I noticed the difference. Like I said, I could feel it. When I soak in it, to me it’s like getting an IV of magnesium. I can feel it. It’s really cool.

One thing that you mentioned before we hit record, we were kind of catching up.

[02:00:37] Kristen Bowen: It was nice to catch up, wasn’t it?

[02:00:39] Ashley James: It is. And it’s been a while. But you talked about how, well, when I first interviewed you, I was your first podcast, so I was so excited. Episode 294. You have mentioned since then, you’ve been on the show a few times and you’ve mentioned being on other shows, but since then, you’ve grown your company. Have you moved twice or three times? You’ve gone bigger and bigger. Tell us about how the company has grown since you’ve last come on the show.

[02:01:13] Kristen Bowen: So, we had decided because we’re a family-owned company, and we had decided okay, we are jumping in at a deeper level. We want to share on a bigger stage more magnesium. So, we had decided to do the traveling magnesium parties of which I met you. And it ended up being so much more expensive than what we thought it would be. And it was one of those this is either going to work or the company is going to fold. And you made that comment, I think there were 7, was that 7 including my team or was that 7 people?

[02:02:05] Ashley James:  I think it was like 7 people in the whole room.

[02:02:08] Kristen Bowen: So that was 7 people including my team and just in advertising I had spent $1000. Just in advertising. Let alone driving out with the magnesium, the payroll hours, the gas to get there, all of that kind of stuff. So, my husband, because before, it was the day before I turned to my husband and I said Seattle is a bust, we cannot go here. And he looked at me and he said “Two things I’m going to remind you of. You’ve never cared about the numbers. Why start now? And someone will show up to that that will help you get the word out to more people and they will connect with your heart.”

[02:03:00] Ashley James: Give your husband a hug for me. 

[02:03:02] Kristen Bowen: And I was stressed the day before because I’m like, I’ve got more of my team here than people showing up. As I saw the people who were there, I think there were 3 actual new people that weren’t my team, I just thought, okay, I’m being driven by my values. These three people are important, their lives are important. The people that they’re connected to are important. And I threw away my stress and worry about how much money I had spent and determined to make it a value to those people who had driven into Seattle at night in the summer and had done all of the things that they needed to do to get there. Little did I know that Ashley James was sitting there with the potential to connect me to other like-minded people who are passionate about creating health. And I do podcasts all the time now and you're still my favorite podcaster because of your ability to not like “We’ve got to be done in 30 minutes” but to just really flesh out and have true communication instead of staged question-and-answer. I love the true communication versus the staged question-and-answer. And all of your listeners, Ashley, we so appreciate what you do and our heart broke as we watched what you went through and you have inspired us to remember and remind ourselves that we can take the ashes and we can create something beautiful and make a difference in the lives of other people. So, we’re so grateful that you’re back and on your road of recovery, and we appreciate the authenticity of sharing it with us because in those moments of our own darkness, even though they're different than what your hard times were, we remember that we are not alone and we can take that next step and take that next step, whether we’re standing in front of a vending machine, getting a Nature Valley granola bar or we’re grabbing apples and nuts. We’re taking that next step together without judgment and with love connecting as humans to each other and supporting each other in the process.

[02:05:41] Ashley James: Absolutely. You know, life is incredibly messy and incredibly beautiful, and there are moments where you feel like the pain will never end. I promise you if you hold on, it will end in the biggest thing, is getting out of your head and sometimes the biggest thing is being in service to others. When you need help the most, I know that sounds crazy because you're like “I need help. Why am I helping others?” Sometimes, being in service to others is the best way to get out of your head, to get out of your depression, to get out of your funk. Yes, asking for help is important to asking, and it’s not about pride. It’s about loving yourself enough to go “Please, this is a moment in my life where I’m requesting some backup. I need some backup here.” And it’s not a weakness; it’s a strength. It’s a strength to be able to say I need some help holding it together. And it’s okay to cry and find your friend that will cry with you and you will put it back together. You know, I turned to God and we felt His grace with us.

[02:07:00] Kristen Bowen: So glad.

[02:07:02] Ashley James: We felt. And I grew up in the church but my husband did not and he turned to me something like 2 or 3 days after she died, our daughter, and he said “I feel God giving me a hug.” It was something like both of us, we felt His grace and His presence. We felt His protection, we felt His love. And it was so beautiful and so intense and so real to us, both of us.

[02:07:33] Kristen Bowen: It is tangible, I can hear it in your voice.

[02:07:34] Ashley James: It was. It was tangible. For my husband…

[02:07:39] Kristen Bowen: A new experience for him probably.

[02:07:41] Ashley James: It’s a new experience. I mean, I brought him to church a few times but him, this was a new experience. And I do not believe that God causes bad things. You know some people go “oh well, God has a plan.” God does not cause suffering or bad stuff. The more you study and the more you build a relationship, God loves you the most out of everyone, wants the best for you. In your life, some perfect life is messy and in those moments of mine, we can find connection. Another thing that came out of it was my community of friends and family and my community of homeschool moms came together and supported us in a way. Even the listeners of the podcast supported us in a way that my husband said “I’ve never felt so loved before.” He’s an introvert, he doesn’t have like a lot of friends. He just likes to hang out with me. It was a nonstop flow of people coming in. Because I said, you know, my door is open, right, but he said “I’ve never felt so supported. I’ve never felt so loved.” 

And I was told that some friends and even when we were arranging the burial, a woman who works at the cemetery, and several people told me this that other people when they experience a loss of a child, they sort of just get silent and they don’t ask for help and they don’t get public about it, and they don’t tell friends and family and they don’t reach out. They just suffer in silence. And whether it’s a miscarriage, a stillbirth or a child dying early in infancy, there are so many parents that feel guilt or shame or they don’t know how to reach out. And they just get silent and suffer in silence. I did the opposite. I suffered openly. And I opened my heart aloud for love and healing and connection, and I communicated. I think that's how I healed and survived. 

But what I was amazed at is so many women came out of the woodwork and said, “When I lost my child, I never told anyone. When I had a miscarriage, I didn’t tell people. When I had a stillbirth, I didn’t tell people. And I suffered for years in silence and seeing you do it publicly has been healing for me because now I want to talk about the child I lost. Now I want to get it off my heart and I want to share it.” 

[02:10:27] Kristen Bowen: And feel comfort.

[02:10:29] Ashley James: The thing is, whatever, listen, all of us, if you live long enough, you're going to suffer. There’s going to be a loss. I mean, I want everyone to live to be 120, right? We want to live long and beautiful glorious lives. And all of us are going to be, at some point, in a hospital supporting a loved one. Right? In an emergency. In a situation where we’re taking care of a sick family member or a sick friend. Or where our needs are going to go on the backburner for a day or a week or a month because we’re taking care of someone we love. The strategies we talked about today are so important to think about and learn because if you live a long enough, full enough life, you will have those moments. No matter how healthy you are, you could be a marathon runner that’s like whole-food plant-based and eating your own food from the garden, you could be just like the healthiest person in the world. And when you're up against it and you're up against the wall and you're in a hospital taking care of a loved one or your entire routine is thrown off or you're sleep-deprived, you're nutrient-deprived, it’s those times of stress. Or maybe you're just under the gun at work. Whatever your stress is, it throws off our routine and that's where the patterns, the little habits, the little choices, the little baby steps that we talked about today can make your experience be a healthier one, be a better one, be one where you can manage it with grace. That's what I want for everyone. Life is messy, life is not perfect, and you can learn the good, better, best of the choices to help yourself so that you can help the ones you love during those crucial times.

But I love that we talked about that's like there's no perfect, right? When I started the podcast, I wasn’t the perfect weight, I wasn’t the perfect health. I’m incredibly passionate. My number one value is health. I study health. I eat healthy. I make the best choices I can. 

My husband is the one that pushed me to start the podcast. I wanted to do the podcast but there was that voice in my head that said I don’t look like an Instagram model yet or I don’t look like these people on Instagram. You know what I mean? Like these raw vegans who have their own garden in the backyard and they all look perfect and they all eat acai berry bowls or whatever it’s called. Okay, that smoothie bowl looks disgusting, I’m sorry. But like the people that eat smoothie bowls every day, right? That level, it seems superficial. I mean, I don’t know. Those people, I’m not putting them down because those people probably have beautiful authentic life, but that compare and contrast that we look at these people, the health gurus. You look at them and you go like, “Oh.” Like there's that little voice in your head that goes “I’m not like that. I’m not good enough. I can’t do that. I wish I could do that.”

[02:13:39] Kristen Bowen: That's a way we keep ourselves safe. It’s a way that our subconscious is keeping us safe because ultimately, we know like okay, that's not going to happen and so I’m just going to watch them and follow them, and it’s a very convenient excuse to stay exactly where you're at. One of the things that I’ve recently done, Ashley, that I finally stepped out of that perfectionism is I’ve always wanted to become certified in Pilates. It stopped me because I don’t have a flat Pilates tummy. It doesn’t look like the Instagram Pilates tummy. And Ashley, it has been one of the most enjoyable journeys and I just realize I’m not waiting to do that until I look like that. I’m creating it now. And it has been life-changing for me. So, hairs up for imperfect action.

[02:14:41] Ashley James: Yes, thank you. So, that's what I was saying. It’s like when I started the podcast, I had to let go. I just say, you know what, “No. I’m on a journey. I’ve come a long way.” Like when I started the podcast, I had already healed. Polycystic ovarian syndrome, type 2 diabetes, infertility, chronic adrenal fatigue and chronic infections. That's five things that I had healed in my body. And I’m still working. I’m still working on my health. There's no promise land where it’s like okay, I achieved it, I’m up Mt. Everest of health and now I’m the guru. It’s like no, that's not it. Life is messy, life’s not perfect. Make good, better, or best choices.

And I started the podcast going, people are suffering, I can’t wait any longer. There's an urgency. These people to know this information and we’re going to get healthy together. We’re all going to learn to make good, better, and best decisions, make better decisions every day and we’re going to get there together. We’re going to shed those layers of symptoms and ill health together. I love that you didn’t wait to have a flat stomach before you started studying Pilates. I love that. I think that we should grab on to the things that we love to do or things we want to do and just go and run with it. 

[02:16:00] Kristen Bowen: Healthy women create. 

[02:16:02] Ashley James: We will grow as we learn, as we do, as we experience. So, good. Awesome. It’s so exciting to have you on the show and I know there's a lot more I wanted to talk about. I wanted to talk about the growth of your business. We got a little sidetracked into health talk, of course.

[02:16:18] Kristen Bowen: Imagine that. You and I, Ashley, getting sidetracked. But thank you so much for having me on today. Hopefully, I can come back again and we can talk some more. 

[02:16:29] Ashley James: Yeah, businesses are recovering from the last two years from supply chain issues and quality issues. You have kept your quality high. And as the world heals from the last two years and the supply chain heals…

[02:16:44] Kristen Bowen: We dropped 13 products and we lost.

[02:16:48] Ashley James: I know you want to get those products back. When everything comes back to the high standards that you hold, come back on the show and we can talk about the products you're able to offer again. But I’m so happy that obviously, your flagship which is the magnesium soak is still at and listeners can use coupon code LTH to get the discount and do the 30-day challenge, the soak every day. If you can do it for 20 minutes, do it for 20 minutes. If you can do it for an hour, do it for an hour. I like doing it at night because it helps me sleep but for some people, it gives them more energy. So, I say the first soak or two, do it like in the middle of the day, if you can, like maybe on your lunch break because then you will figure out whether your body gets more energy from magnesium or whether you fall asleep from magnesium. And yeah, listen to the previous episodes of Kristen because they're just packed full of amazing information—294341, and 381. Kristen, wonderful having you on the show again, as always. Can’t wait to have you back and thank you so much for being on this journey with us. Thank you for not waiting to be perfect before you took action because you would have never started. Just like me, I would have never started the podcast if I waited to be perfect before I took action. Just remember, baby steps, good, better and best. Make your choice. You’re always improving upon yourself and shed that guilt and shame. There's no place in that for your life. Your life is filled with joy and love.

[02:18:18] Kristen Bowen: Love it. Thank you, Ashley.

[02:18:21] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s interview with Kristen Bowen. She’s absolutely amazing and I highly recommend you go back and listen to the other episodes that’s she’s been in and you can go to and type in “Kristen Bowen” in the search bar there to find the other episodes where she shares about how to get rid of parasites and more about magnesium. Just incredible information about magnesium. And of course, her health journey which she has an amazing story, so it’s really worth listening to. Please go to her website and use coupon code LTH as in Learn True Health. Use coupon code LTH to get the listener discount. Please share this episode with those you care about who you know this would help. We’re all recovering from the last few years in some way or another and let’s support each other in our health journey. Have yourself a wonderful rest of your day.


Get Connected with Kristen Bowen:


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Recommended Reading by Kristen Bowen


Healing Is Voltage by Jerry L. Tennant

Oct 29, 2022

If you have blood sugar issues, fatty liver, kidney issues, weight issues, heart health issues or immune issues you MUST check out this FREE summit! Please sign up (free) and share this link with your friends!


489: Mastering Diabetes: How To Reverse Insulin Resistance and Restore Insulin Sensitivity with Robby Barbaro

The quest to restore insulin sensitivity is a long, arduous one. In this episode, Robby Barbaro talks about the right approach, combined with progressive health habits and lifestyle changes, to help anybody achieve their ideal weight, master diabetes, and reverse their metabolic issues once and for all. He also talks about his upcoming summit, the most comprehensive one you can ever attend, all in one place with no travel and at no cost.



  • Endotoxins
  • Recommended foods in Robby’s program
  • Green light, yellow light, red light food categories, etc.
  • Insulin sensitivity and resistance
  • Robby’s summit


Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James. This is episode 489.

Ashley James: I am so excited for today’s guest. We have back on the show Robby Barbaro who was in episode 233. You should definitely go back and listen to that. That was all the way back in 2018. Since then, you’ve published an amazing book. I’ve actually given your book as gifts before. Mastering Diabetes is a phenomenal book. You guys have coached thousands of people to reversing type 2 diabetes completely blowing it out of the water, completely reversing it. These people are getting off meds, losing weight, getting balanced blood sugar, living amazing lives, and even type 1 diabetics like yourself have cut insulin. Crazy amounts, 50 percent, 70 percent. They have had the best health success in their lives from the program that you and Cyrus have created and have been doing for many years. And I’m so excited to have you back on the show because you are about to launch a summit which I want all my listeners to attend because honestly, statistically, you as a listener probably have blood sugar issues or someone in your household or one of your friends does. Because statistically, I think, what is it, 1/3 of the population has diabetes or prediabetes.

[00:01:25] Robby Barbaro: That's absolutely right. It’s unbelievable. I’m just so excited to be here, Ashley. We have so much to talk about. And you’re exactly right. This our big event every year, happens once a year. It’s the Blood Sugar Revolution Summit. It’s absolutely free and people should absolutely register so they can get involved. We do free webinars in the evenings of this event, so we can answer questions live and some people call in, they do a phone call. It’s an incredible even. We have over 22 incredible experts talking on a wide range of topics. So, we’re just really stoked on it and people are going to definitely benefit. If you want to learn how to reverse insulin resistance, if you want to learn how to get rid of excess weight, if you want to learn about how you can prevent and reverse conditions like kidney disease, we have heart disease experts, we have fatty liver disease, we have gut health experts, we have cancer experts. It’s an amazing event with incredible speakers. Our goal is to help people really take full control of their health and understand the truth because it’s a very confusing landscape right now when it comes to nutrition, but it doesn’t have to be confusing. 

[00:02:39] Ashley James: I love that you brought up that you’re addressing kidney disease, fatty liver, heart disease, cancer. These are issues that are it’s kind of like an octopus like here we have diabetes but then you see all these arms of diabetes and we see that. It’s like what came first, right, chicken or the egg? When you go to a medical doctor, they’re trained. Now, I love all doctors. The unfortunate part is their education. They’re taught to see the body through the lens of reductionism and to see the body reduced to different parts, and then they're taught to prescribe pills to alter the body. They don’t teach us how to have optimal health and they don’t cure. These are standard medical doctors, right? And they’re doing the best they can with the tools they have but you wouldn’t take your car to a plumber.

[00:03:30] Robby Barbaro: That's right.

[00:03:31] Ashley James: Right? So, when we go to a medical doctor with chronic disease, their tools are drugs that manage symptoms but these drugs have other side effects and you go down a road of early death and disease.

[00:03:44] Robby Barbaro: That's exactly right.

[00:03:45] Ashley James: When we maintain having diabetes, because if you go to a medical doctor, I know like I’m preaching to the choir here, right, I’m talking to you, but this has been my experience also. I had, for many years, uncontrolled type 2 diabetes and every medical doctor “you’re going to be on metformin for the rest of your life, you’re going to be on insulin for the rest of your life. Like you're going to be on this drug and we’re just going to keep adding drug after drug.” And you're going to “manage” your diabetes. You're not going to “master” it, you're going to “manage” it, meaning you get to keep diabetes and these drugs.

But here’s the thing. Medical doctors have probably told the listeners, several listeners just like me that you’ll always have it, which is complete nonsense. It’s like saying there's dirt on your face. You're always going to have that dirt on your face. It’s like, you just wash it off. Just wash it off. So yes, with amazing change in lifestyle and diet and nutrition, we can heal the body to the point where it no longer has diabetes.

But now you’ve got all these arms of the octopus because with diabetes comes inflammation and with inflammation comes heart disease, cancer, fatty liver, kidney issues, eyesight issues, neuropathy. You’re losing your limbs. And I have a friend whose boyfriend has erectile dysfunction and he’s in his early 40s and he now can’t get it up because of his blood sugar issues. There’s certain jobs that he’s been fired from and he can’t be hired because he falls asleep. Like he wanted to be a bus driver. Can’t be a bus driver because he falls asleep. That's all out of control blood sugar. But he’s not willing to change his diet. So those who are listening today are willing, they're excited and willing. They want to know what are the answers because they’ve been told so many wrong things. So, I want you to demystify. Let’s talk about how are we going to demystify and this juggernaut because we’ve been lied to by the pharmaceutical industry, by the medical industry, the giant medical complex which makes so much money. Maybe you have some statistics here because I have some old statistics, but maybe you have new statistics of keeping someone diabetic. The medical industry, the pharmaceutical industry and the hospitals and the doctors. I saw an old statistic where they make $120,000 off of these patients.

[00:06:00] Robby Barbaro: The statistic I have is that the average is $16,752 per year, costs that are incurred by diabetes patients. So, that's like medical expenditures. That number you got might refer to other things.

[00:06:19] Ashley James: Might be when it’s the end stage like when they're in heart failure and diabetes, stuff like that. Either way, it’s costing. It’s costing you.

[00:06:27] Robby Barbaro: It’s absolutely costly.

[00:06:28] Ashley James: But if it’s costing you, it’s profit for them. They're profiting to keep people sick instead of reversing it, and you have a program that you’ve been doing for many years that reverses these issues.

[00:06:40] Robby Barbaro: Absolutely. Just to add to that cost, basically 1 out of every 4 dollars in the US healthcare cost, is spent on caring for people with diabetes. That amounts to $237 billion each year on direct medical cost for diabetes. So, it’s expensive, it’s costing.

[00:07:04] Ashley James: It costs us but it’s a $237 billion profit to keep people having diabetes and to keep everyone in the old way of thinking that you have to eat lots of fat and lots of meat and you can’t eat any vegetables or fruit because those are carbs, carbs are bad, and you definitely need to take all these meds. To keep them in the old way of thinking keeps them sick, so it keeps them profitable. $237 dollars of profit for the medical industry which is costing us.

[00:07:38] Robby Barbaro: Exactly. There's definitely some misaligned incentives for sure in our healthcare system. Like you said, something that's really disappointing and you know this to your own experience, is going to a doctor, being made aware that your A1C is high or your fasting blood glucose is high and that you are living with either prediabetes or type 2 diabetes, and then being told okay, the first line of defense is metformin. “Here’s some metformin.” And maybe the doctor will say, “Hey, you should also adjust your diet and move your body.” But it’s not very clear guidance, there's not a lot of support there. There's not any really mentality of, “actually, let’s address the cause. Let’s see what we can do to actually take care of this now and make sure it doesn’t progress. This doesn’t have to be a chronic disease.”

It’s such a missed opportunity because diabetes, in particular, can be a great wakeup call. Especially pre-diabetes and type 2 diabetes because if you catch it early enough, it is quite easy to reverse and turn it around. If you don’t catch it early enough and you let the disease progress, you can get to a point where your beta cells are burned out. So the beta cells inside your pancreas are responsible for producing insulin. When you're in an insulin resistant state, those beta cells have to work overtime and they have to work extra hard to produce more and more insulin to compensate for your insulin resistance and eventually, they can get exhausted and they just die out. So the population is diminished and all of a sudden you get to a point where you're not living with an autoimmune version of diabetes, you still have type 2 but you can become insulin-dependent simply because your beta cell supply has been reduced too much.

Now, there are people who come into our program where that has happened. Their beta cell supply, the produce of insulin has been diminished, but because our program helps them become so insulin sensitive, even with a smaller amount of insulin being produced, they can maintain a healthy A1c in the nondiabetic range. They can maintain a healthy fasting blood glucose all while eating the foods they’ve been told that they should not be eating just like you were insinuating before.

Another point I want to touch on here is you were talking about something like the octopus and the tentacles here, and how when you're living with any form of diabetes, your chronic disease risk for a range of conditions is increased. The number one cause of death for people living with all forms of diabetes is heart disease. So, that is the most important tentacle, okay? And it is something that you can address. You can absolutely in many cases reverse heart disease. You can also halt it and make sure it does not progress. So, this is an important part of our program. And again, we have a few interviews in our summit. Dr. Brian Asbill, he’s a cardiologist and he’s interviewed in our summit and talks about this in detail to go in depth on cardiovascular issues, tests you can get and all that important information.

But what you highlighted is very important to understand. When you are living with diabetes, there are many other concerns. And so, our approach is a blessing in a sense that it addresses all of them simultaneously and that’s what’s really fun about this. When you follow a low-fat plant-based whole food diet and you start addressing the root cause which is insulin resistance, you can absolutely turn your health around. Does that make sense?

[00:11:34] Ashley James: Absolutely. I had the mayor of New York City, Eric Adams, on my show in episode 437 and he talks about how having diabetes was the wakeup call for him. He was losing his eyesight, not feeling really good, went to the doctor and came home with a bag of prescriptions and a pamphlet that said living with diabetes. And he rejected that. He thought, “I don’t want to live with it. I don’t want to have it anymore.” And so, he was called to. He just felt inspired to type into Google instead of like how to manage diabetes, he felt inspired to type in like how to beat it. And it led him to your information, it led him to eating a whole food plant-based diet, a very specific way of eating where you’re not eating processed oils and you're not eating processed sugar or processed flours, and you're eating real food. He had a huge bag of prescriptions. It was pretty gnarly. He was able to get rid of all of them and be taken off all of them and reverse all of his health issues. So, he is just a big advocate for this way of living because we can reverse the heart disease, the kidney disease, the liver disease, the diabetes, and prevent things like cancer. But also, people go from feeling incredibly crappy to feeling amazing.

Dr. Richard Fleming came on my show in episode 463 and he’s a research cardiologist, PhD, and he discovered way back over 30 years ago, discovered the root cause or the beginnings of heart disease before it was detectable in any machines. He invented a way of scanning in the body and he could then tell you if you kept doing the same thing, if you kept eating the same way, kept living the same way, he could predict where heart disease would show up. What he saw was that inflammation was the first thing that he would see in the body, the very first thing he would see was inflammation and that was the precursor to heart disease and as we know, that when we are in a diabetic state, the body is just full of inflammation. Is there anything you can say to that? Because I know that your program is incredibly anti-inflammatory. But just getting people’s blood sugar under control is also anti-inflammatory.

[00:13:56] Robby Barbaro: Absolutely. So, there's no question. I mean, having high blood glucose is a problem there. But really, it comes down to the foods that people were eating that led them to have a high blood glucose reading in the first place. It’s the foods that people are eating that cause them to be living in a state of insulin resistance. Okay? So foods like meat, cheese, and processed foods, they elevate your levels of inflammation in your body. But at the same time, what’s important to understand is when you eat those foods, you’re eating foods that cause inflammation, but also, you're missing out on the opportunity to consume those same calories with foods that actually naturally are anti-inflammatory. Okay? Those are foods that are high in fiber, antioxidants and other phytochemicals. These foods lower inflammation in your body. Okay? They do not have this saturated fat, the endotoxins. Okay? So, these are foods, the endotoxins that basically are toxins released from bacteria commonly found in animal food. So, these are the types of toxins that you avoid when you're not eating animal-based products and high fat products and foods high in saturated fat.

So, it’s kind of like a double whammy. It’s like, okay, we’re taking away the things that cause a problem, but then we’re replacing those calories with foods that actually address the problem. They’re anti-inflammatory. And that's really important to understand here. I mean, I would love to go a little deeper into the exact foods that we have people eating on the Mastering Diabetes program. Is that okay with you, Ashley?

[00:15:44] Ashley James: Yeah, I definitely want to touch that. First, I just want to talk about the endotoxins for a minute. Other guests recently have been talking about this and how harmful endotoxins are. But no one said, hey, you know, if you're really struggling and you know endotoxins are a problem for you, especially people with leaky brain, leaky gut, people who had Lyme disease or overcoming mold sensitivities, there's just certain people who are way more sensitive to endotoxins. You're saying that we get it from eating animal flesh. 

[00:16:17] Robby Barbaro: That's exactly right. So, basically, it’s present inside a bacterial cell and it’s released when that cell disintegrates. Okay? So, you have more of these cells when you're consuming animal products. It’s really that simple. And it’s a big deal. Actually, what’s fascinating is Dr. Joel Fuhrman in his summit, I think he’s on the first or second day, he almost talks about this for like the entire podcast interview. These toxins that are created inside your body when you're eating foods that are not designed for your body. Does that make sense?

[00:16:56] Ashley James: I love Joel Fuhrman. I’ve had him on the show. I also learned a lot from him when I went through the Institute for Integrative Nutrition’s coach training program and he was my favorite teacher.

[00:17:06] Robby Barbaro: I love that.

[00:17:08] Ashley James: He is so amazing. Just the things that he teaches. I love how he takes like the science of food to a whole new level and makes me so motivated to eat my broccoli and eat my mushrooms and eat my berries, all the good stuff. Oh my gosh. Yeah, okay, let’s talk about the food. One thing we didn’t touch on because I told listeners just go back and listen to episode 233 where you tell your story. But for those who don’t know your story, because I really want people to get what’s possible. Can you just give us the highlight reel? 

[00:17:42] Robby Barbaro: Absolutely. So, I’ve been living with type 1 diabetes since 2000, so that’s now over 22 years. It was in December of 2006 when I decided to switch to a low-fat plant-based whole food diet. So prior to that, I had tried many different dietary approaches. And my goal, my personal mission in life still to this day, is I would love to find a solution to how to reverse type 1 diabetes. I would love for my beta cells to produce insulin once again. That sent me on this mission to do anything and everything I possibly could to optimize my health from the inside out. That's why I learned so much and that's why I tried so many different diets. 

Just for those who don’t know, type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes, they're different. They’re different and they're the same in some ways. The reason they're different is type 1 is an autoimmune condition. We don’t know the cause, we don’t know why beta cells are damaged. But if you're living with type 1 diabetes, you don’t produce sufficient quantities of insulin. Your beta cells have been damaged and you have to inject insulin in order to eat food and survive. If you're living with type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes, in the initial phase, you're actually producing excess insulin. So, your body is in overdrive. It’s a lifestyle condition and it is caused by diet, exercise, genes are a very small component here. It’s really your lifestyle that causes type 2 diabetes. So, both of them, both type 1 and type 2, insulin resistance can be present. It’s insulin resistant that is the driver of the chronic disease risk that's associated with, again, both type 1 and type 2 diabetes.

So, I’m living with type 1. I, again, tried many different approaches and really, the last 2 things I tried. So, the one before this approach we’re going to talk about in more detail, was a ketogenic plant-based diet. They didn’t really call it keto diet back then. But I basically ate nuts, seeds, avocado, I had lots of oil, I had tons of greens. But I kept my total carbohydrate intake to less than 30 net carbohydrate. Okay? So, 70 because there was plenty of fiber in the greens. So about 70 total per day, about 30 net. So, at this time, I did it. I did it very diligently and I did see how because I reduced my carbohydrate intake, my insulin went down. The insulin I needed to inject as a type 1 went down. B