Learn True Health with Ashley James

On Learn True Health, Ashley James interviews today's most successful natural healers. Learn True Health was created for YOU, the health enthusiast. If you are passionate about organic living or struggling with health issues and are looking to gain your health naturally, our holistic podcast is what you have been looking for! Ashley James interviews Naturopathic Doctors and expert holistic health care practitioners to bring you key holistic health information, results based advice and new natural steps you can take to achieve true health, starting NOW! If you are sick and tired of being sick and tired, if you are fed up with prescription drug side effects, if you want to live in optimal health but you don't know where to start, this podcast is for you! If you are looking for ACTIONABLE advice from holistic doctors to get you on your path to healing, you will enjoy the wisdom each episode brings. Each practitioner will leave you with a challenge, something that you can do now, and each day, to measurably improve your health, energy, and vitality. Learn about new healing diet strategies, how to boost your immune system, balance your hormones, increase your energy, what supplements to take and why and how to experience your health and stamina in a new way. Ashley James from Learn True Health interviews doctors like Dr. Joel Wallach, Dr. Andrew Weil, Dr. Deepak Chopra, Dr. Oz, Dr. Joseph Mercola and Dr. Molly Niedermeyer on Naturopathic Medicine, Homeopathy, Supplements, Meditation, Holistic Health and Alternative Health Strategies for Gaining Optimal Health.
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Learn True Health with Ashley James








All Episodes
Now displaying: 2023
Jun 3, 2023

Testimonial #1: Mary

Official Member of the LTH Listener 500 Club!

Mary recommends listening to the following:

Episode 443 Dr. Laura Kelly, Treating Osteoporosis and Osteopenia Naturally


Episode 294 Magnesium Soak with Kristen Bowen

Be sure to use coupon code LTH at to get the listener discount!


487 Catherine Arnsten Chlorella and Spirulina (Recovery Bits are Chlorella, Energy Bits are Spirulina, Vitality Bits are a 50/50 blend of each)

Be sure to use coupon code LTH at to get the listener discount!


Episodes 292 and 293 PES Ionic Foot Detox with Kellyann Andrews


Episode 343 Debugging Your Health with Susan Luschas


Episodes 178, 358, and 390 with "Green Smoothie Girl" Robyn Openshaw


Testimonial #2 Katrina Reeser - Breast Implant Illness Survivor! 

Katrina recommends:

Episode 457

Breast Implant Illness (AKA Forgine Object syndrome)


Follow Katrina on IG!

IG: Bii_warrior_


Testimonial #3 Linda Valdez 

Linda recommends: helped her father-in-law get out of pain, improve his cognitive function and come back to life!


Magnesium Soak

Be sure to use coupon code LTH at to get the listener discount!


Chlorella and Spirulina

Be sure to use coupon code LTH at to get the listener discount!


Medicinal Aloe Vera Drink:


Testimonial #4 Mellissa Lee Diaz

Migraines are Gone, Perimenopause symptoms are gone, and improved immune health.


Mellissa recommends:

Episodes 292 and 293 PES Ionic Foot Detox with Kellyann Andrews


Sunlighten Sauna: 

Be sure to get my listeners' discount when buying your Sunlighten Sauna!


Analemma for increasing/improving hydration

Be sure to use coupon code LTH for the listener discount! 


Melissa also had great success using the supplements she got from


Testimonial #5 Morgan

All symptoms are gone after using the Phototherapy Patches to correct polarity. 


To get on the phototherapy patches, please schedule a free call with me (Ashley James)


Testimonial #6 Dana (read by Ashley)

Episode 479:


Episode 107:


Episode 477:


Episode 224:

Also, be sure to listen to the follow-up interview with Dr. Paul Thomas:


Episode 245: Sunlighten Sauna

Be sure to get my listeners' discount when buying your Sunlighten Sauna!


Episode 294 Magnesium Soak with Kristen Bowen

Be sure to use coupon code LTH at to get the listener discount!


Episode 484: Ozone

Be sure to use coupon code LTH at for the listener discount!


Episodes 401 & 474: Medicinal Aloe Gel Drink


Be sure to use this link to get the listener special:



Testimonial #7 - Listener gets off nine medications!

Listener shares in the LTH FB group how she quickly got her health back and got off of 9 of her ten medications thanks to the advice followed in the episodes as well as the wonderful guidance and supplements she got from 


Episode 366: Earthing and Grounding with Clint Ober


Episode 402: Dr. Stephen Sinatra Earthing and Grounding


Episode 294 Magnesium Soak with Kristen Bowen

Be sure to use coupon code LTH at to get the listener discount!


Testimonial #8 Natalie is beating Type 2 Diabetes

Episode 233:


Episode 489:


Episode 492:



Testimonial #9 - Ruth and ending anxiety's control over her life

Check out episodes on how to eliminate anxiety:


Schedule a call to work with Ashley James:


Testimonials 10, 11, 12 & 13: Heavy Metal Detox with Platinum Energy System

Call Kellyann: 1-877-225-3388 - 8:30 am to 5:00 pm PST



Interviews about PES Ionic Foot Detox with Kellyann Andrews

Episode 292:


Episode 293:


Episode 329:


Episode 330:


Episode 396:


Episode 454:

Mar 23, 2023

Gut To Glow Supplement by Dr. William Davis:

10% off first orders: LTH10

15% off subscriptions: LTH15



To work with Ashley James and try the phototherapy, Go Here:

In the Menu, click Work With Ashley James


Online Health Coach Training Program:


I love IIN; the Institute for Integrative Nutrition is where I took my Health Coach Training and where you can transform your life and become an Integrative Health Coach!

The whole program is online and designed for busy people, so anyone can do it!


Free 7-Day Holistic Doctor Course by Ashley James:


Join the Learn True Health FB group:


The Best Coherent Structured Water Device:

Use coupon code LTH at


499: Gut to Glow: Improving Health, Skin, and Collagen with Lactobacillus Reuteri


It is a pleasure to have Dr. William Davis back on the show today! We discuss the importance of gut health and how it can help us look and feel younger. He has devised a convenient supplement that people can take in lieu of making the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt. We are exploring this solution and how it can benefit us.

Ashley James & Dr. William Davis


  • Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt for depression
  • How phototherapy patch complements other modalities
  • Lactobacillus reuteri supplement helps the gut and has anti-aging benefits
  • Dr. Davis' supplement increases collagen production.


Hello, true health seekers, and welcome to another exciting Learn True Health podcast. Episode 499. Oh my gosh, it's almost episode 500. And you guys must be like, where's Ashley? Because it's been weeks since I posted an episode. Since I posted the episode about the phototherapy stem cell patches, my phone has been blowing up. It's been amazing. I've talked to so many listeners. I've had so many client calls every single day. My calendar is full of amazing conversations with the listeners and with my clients about the phototherapy patches. I've had at least thirty clients get on the patches, start using them, and get on them. They had outstanding results using the phototherapy patches in helping their body address different issues, which is exciting. I've been pinching myself because how does something so small have such a profound effect? And that's because it's frequency medicine which is fascinating stuff. You'll want to go back and listen to my recent episode about phototherapy stem cell patches with Trina Hammack. And if you want to have a free phone call with me, go to, and in the menu, it says Work with Ashley James. Click on that, and the first option is to sign up for a free phone call with me to discuss the stem cell phototherapy patches. And if there's anything else I can help you with and send resources to answer questions, please jump on a phone call with me. I'd love to help you.

There are some amazing results that we've seen. I had one client with all of the crazy symptoms that she's been experiencing in the last six years. She'd been suffering horribly from weird symptoms that no one knew what they were from. And in about a week using the patches, we corrected her polarity. And she was just so excited that all of her symptoms went away. I'm beyond excited for her because you imagine feeling dizzy and out of it and having all these weird symptoms for six years, not knowing what's happening. And then we use a very gentle yet powerful frequency medicine. When I say gentle, it can be used on babies. It can be used on animals with great success. So it's gentle for everyone, animals and humans, regardless of our size or age. And it doesn't disrupt medications. So there's no contraindication like medications or anything like that. We see fantastic results. I have personally had some amazing experiences. 

I have a family member who now has benign tremors. She doesn't have Parkinson's. She's had a battery of tests several times by neurologists, but they don't know what's causing them. But she has a tremor so bad she couldn't hold the newspaper and read it. She can't drink, can't eat soup, because it would just all go everywhere. Her hands and arms would shake uncontrollably. She's had that for a few years and tried many things. We started patching her a few months ago. And she's had great success with correcting a lot of stuff. She has a better sleep, energy, less pain, a happier mood, and better digestion. Everything is getting better and better. And then, about three and a half months into patching, she started noticing that her shakes were diminishing. And just the other day, she could hold the newspaper and read it. It's just a dream come true because she thought she'd never be able to do that again. Her handwriting is improved. She used to do calligraphy, and she hasn't been able to do anything for years with her hands. 

So this is giving people freedom. And what's cool about the phototherapy patches is that they complement many other modalities. It complements taking your supplements, and herbs, eating healthy, and exercising. It doesn't add anything to the body. It puts a frequency in the body that asks the body to perform a healthy task more. So the glutathione patch increases glutathione by 300% in 24 hours within the moments of putting on the stem cell patch. People's pain diminishes and sometimes goes away completely, and their inflammation decreases. They're turning on thousands of dormant gene expressions. So this is an epigenetic thing. It turns on healing genes to help the body in amazing ways. So many people who start using the patches to support one thing end up seeing many other things improve. 

And then, just for the first aid benefits, I accidentally got kicked in the face the other day. My son, who has been doing Taekwondo for a long time, is a good kicker. And he was kicking the blankets off of him at full force as I was coming in to wake him up in the morning, and he didn't know I was there. And boom, I got kicked in the face so bad that my head spun, and I had a bleeding nose immediately. I had all the concussion symptoms, which was scary for a minute. I immediately took one of the patches designed for first aid use and put them on my nose. The bleeding, inflammation, and swelling stopped. I thought that was so cool. I put the patch for inflammation on the back of my neck with the stem cell patch lowered down on my spine. And then, for the rest of the day, I was using the patches around my head, which you put inside a hat so you can take it off. It's pretty cool to do that. And I used the protocol for concussions. And then, that night, I went to bed with five of the special protocol called brain bouncer, and five of my favorite patches, the ones that decrease inflammation. They do a bunch of other things, but it feels so good. That's my favorite patch. And it's funny because my mom's friends, whenever I give them this patch, they go, “This patch makes me not yell at my kids.” Because it just makes people calmer and happier and puts them in a better mood. It actually helps balance dopamine in the brain and brings down inflammation. So you feel like you can handle more stress without getting frazzled. Well, I put five of these on my head and went to bed that night. And the next morning, I woke up, and 100% of my concussion was gone. My brain was back to my usual self. How cool is that? 

Now I've seen testimonials in our wonderful secret Facebook group of practitioners. It's like a team of practitioners that I've been learning from and working with and all of their clients. And even though it feels like an intimate community, it's actually close to 55,000 people, but it's a secret group. So if you want to be in the group, let me know. You must email me or book a free session, and I'll get you into this group. And in this group, people share their protocols and testimonials. And I see people in this group who've had major brain damage and bad concussions where eight months later, they're still in the fog and suffering hugely. They start using the patches to bounce their brain and support healthy brain function. And within ten minutes, they start feeling the fog lift, and the brain returns to balance. Hundreds of studies on these patches show that we're reversing early-stage dementia. There are so many benefits around neurology, but it also helps with fertility, hormone balancing, addiction behaviors, and 66% deeper sleep, which they did studies on this. The list goes on and on. The thyroid is the easiest thing to support the body's ability to fix. We're supporting the body's ability to help itself become healthier. I have seen many people reverse their hypothyroidism to support their body's and thyroid's ability to come back online and produce healthy new thyroid tissue in weeks. It's so exciting what we can do for the body. There are testimonials of people with heart damage and heart disease also reversing that. 

So anyway, the list goes on and on. It's very exciting. So if you're wondering where Ashley has been, it's because I've been busy every day, seven days a week, weeks and weeks ever since I published that episode, chatting with amazing listeners and clients and helping everyone get on the phototherapy protocols. So if you want to try it too, I'd love to help you. The things we're helping people with have been amazing. Everything I've ever discovered in the last twelve years, this is the coolest, most effective, most versatile health tool. The thing is, eating healthy is really important. Moving your body in a way that brings you joy is really important. So many things are important to your health, and we must ensure we cover all the foundations. You can't out-patch a bad diet. You can't take phototherapy patches and handle a nutrient deficiency. We must eat healthily, move our bodies, drink a lot, and hydrate. But if you do all the fundamentals and you're still frustrated with not getting on the other side of a health issue, you should try the phototherapy patches. You want to join that Facebook group. And if you don't do Facebook, you'll want to talk to me, and I'll hook you up with the protocols. The protocols supercharge your results because we're utilizing acupuncture points in addition to the phototherapy. So we're putting the patches on acupuncture points, and we see outstanding results. So go to, and in the menu, see Work with Ashley James, and book your free conversation with me; I'd love to help you. 

Let's finally get to today's episode now that you know what I've been up to in the last few weeks. I had a birthday, by the way. I'm 43 now. After the age of about 35, birthdays are surreal. You're like, I remember my parents at this age, and they seemed really old. I totally do. I totally remember my parents in their 40s. I thought 40 was really old. And I'm like, oh, 40 is not really old. 90 is likely old. I have to change my mindset. 90s is old and 40s is young. So this episode is wonderful. I love Dr. William Davis. He has been on the show before and twice, actually. So this is his third time. And he shares with us some amazing stuff he's been up to since his last episode with us. 

We talked about Lactobacillus reuteri about a year ago, which profoundly affected one of my family members. It helped them get on the other side of a major health issue. It also helped me overcome the daily post-traumatic stress panic attacks that I had due to still being in grief from losing my daughter. And the day I started eating the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt, the daily outbursts of crying and sobbing uncontrollably stopped. And it's so cool that it had such an immediate effect. I've never been on antidepressants, but within three days of eating that yogurt, it felt like what I imagined being on antidepressants would be like if they worked. It just felt like the cloud had lifted in my spirit. And I felt like there was a chance at joy. There was a chance at happiness. And that was such an interesting experience to have such a strong emotional response to a gut-healing food. We know serotonin is made in the gut. We know that the nerve that runs from the gut to the brain has this connection. We know that there are neurotransmitters in the gut and that there's a huge connection between gut health, brain health, and emotional health. I felt it so profoundly and so quickly. 

So having Dr. William Davis back on the show today, we discuss how he figured out how to develop a supplement that people can take for those who don't want to go through the hassle of making the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt. And it is a hassle because you have to get a special instant pot or you have to get a special yogurt maker that holds things at 100 degrees Fahrenheit for 36 hours. You have to sterilize your equipment. You have to get either organic dairy or make it with cashews, which I like. I've experimented with making it with soy, coconut, and cashews, which seem to work well. And then you have to make, mix, and blend it with a high-power blender like a Vitamix. So there are so many steps to doing it. I have made this stuff every two weeks for the last year, so I'm used to it. But it is time-consuming, and you must have all that equipment. So for some traveling people who just want the benefits but do not want to go through all that, he figured out how to isolate and make this beautiful supplement. They call it Gut to Glow. At first, I thought it was a skin supplement, like a skin cream. But what it is, is it's a wonderful Lactobacillus reuteri supplement that helps the gut but also has anti-aging benefits. Women and men also see that their skin looks much younger because it increases collagen production. And that's something we discussed in this episode and the previous one about Lactobacillus reuteri. One of its benefits is that it increases or stimulates collagen production in the body or stimulates that. 

So we talk a lot about gut health in this episode, but we also talk about his supplements. If you'd like to try his supplement, go to He gave us two coupon codes. One is 10% off your first order. And that's LTH10. Then if you ever want to get on auto-ship to order it monthly, he gives 15% off to our listeners for the subscription. And that's LTH15. Go to to check out his supplement. And enjoy today's episode. Dr. William Davis is amazing. I have really enjoyed his work. I love his books. They are so informative, and he's so generous with his information. He has a really caring spirit. He wants to help people get healthy. He filled this entire episode with wonderful tidbits of health information. So enjoy today's episode. And if you have any questions about all the cool things I do, I'd love to work with you if you want to be one of my clients. If you'd like to get the phototherapy patches, go to, and click on the menu Work with Ashley James. Sign up for a free session to chat. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day, and enjoy today's episode. 

[0:16:57.0] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I'm your host, Ashley James. This is episode 499. I am so excited about today's guest. We have back on the show Dr. William Davis, who's one of my heroes. So it's just so wonderful to have you back. Welcome back to the show.

[0:17:19.7] Dr. William Davis: Thank you, Ashley. Thanks for having me back. 

[0:17:20.5] Ashley James: Absolutely. I know Dr. Davis was in Episode 167. We talked about his book Wheat Belly, which was so cathartic for me because my whole family went gluten-free 12 years ago, and it made such a massive difference in our lives. And it was so big, but everyone around us was laughing at us and telling us we were crazy. It was right around when we discovered your book. Finally, there's more validation for us that what we're doing is right. And look, there's so much science behind it. And now, of course, everyone's heard of being gluten-free. But back 12 years ago, it was still so unheard of. It makes such a big difference to remove something in the body that is inflaming the gut. And it just affects everything because inflammation in the gut cascades to our neurotransmitters, affecting our brain and how we think, feel, and behave. It does cascade into our whole life. So for those who've never tried going gluten-free, I'd suggest at least 30 days of no barley, wheat, rye, and oats and see how you feel. I love the takeaway from that episode. Dr. Davis was teaching us that we could use a glucometer even for those who are not diabetic. Use a glucometer to monitor how our body responds to our foods to keep our blood sugar within those good ranges. And then let that be your guide to choosing really good healthy meals. So there are so many great takeaways from Episode 167

And then we had you on again just a year ago, Episode 476, about the Lactobacillus reuteri. And your most recent book about healing the gut was amazing. My listeners have been raving about that for the last year. We have a Facebook group community where we all make that yogurt together. Since my whole family is allergic to dairy, I've been experimenting with all the different plant-based ways to make Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt. I've made over 30 batches in the last year. I perfected making it with cashews. I tried soy, coconut, and cashews. It's delicious. I have that recipe I can share in this episode's show notes and the Facebook group. 

I'm excited to hear what's happened in the last year for you and everything you've been doing and producing something really exciting for the listeners. I know they're going to love it. I have to share something with you. Your episode with us a year ago had two huge impacts on my life, and that is when I interviewed you. I don't think you knew this then, but I didn't even realize what happened until I talked to a psychologist friend. I was having post-traumatic stress, PTSD attacks. I was still recovering after losing my daughter. And when I interviewed you, I was breaking down and cried every day. And I'm a very positive person. I'm just the opposite of depressed. I'm just always happy. That's my normal personality. So to break down crying every day, a little something would happen. The glass would fall over and spill, and I would melt into a puddle. I had no idea what was happening, and I was not functioning like I thought I should be. 

And then I did the interview with you about the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt, and I was so excited. I immediately ordered all the supplies, and I made it within days. The only thing I had in the house was an open tin of soy milk. I do not recommend making the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt with soy milk. It was not delicious. But I drank it or ate it. However, it was curdled. So it could have been better, but I took it in. And that day, I felt something shift in me. And the daily breakdowns of crying stopped. Three days after being on it, my counselor friend was talking to me, and she said, “How are you doing”? I said, “Well, I'm not on drugs, and I've never been on antidepressants, but I feel like I'm on an antidepressant.” I feel like the sadness is lifting. I'm feeling like a new person. That Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt was such a game-changer for me. 

[0:22:05.8] Dr. William Davis: That's great. 

[0:22:08.5] Ashley James: It was huge, and the PTSD attacks stopped. Those big attacks stopped, and what I've had since are just tiny events where I might feel overwhelmed or like I need to take a breather and do a little grounding and calm my nervous system. But it's manageable. I went from unmanageable to manageable with the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt.

We go into great detail as to how it affects the body. It increases serotonin. That's episode 476 for those who want to go back and listen to all the benefits of the Lactobacillus reuteri. And I also recommend getting every single one of Dr. William Davis' books. It's all incredible. And you also now have the gut-healing one on audio that came out last year. So that's fantastic. 

But here's the second story. I told you there are two. I have a very close family member who, for years, suffered from such bad chronic diarrhea. They could not leave the house most days. They go through cycles where it is so bad that they can't go from the living room to the bathroom. They'd have an accident along the way. And there were times when they did have to leave the house, and their pants were stained with diarrhea. It's so sad for this person to have that level of intensity. They tried everything. They went to various doctors, eliminated some foods, and nothing worked. And I gave this person a batch of the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt you taught us to make, but I made it plant-based because it is delicious. It's cashew yogurt. They'll like it anyway for breakfast. It tastes amazing. And so it's wonderful to tart. It's as creamy, and I thought this person would benefit from helping with sleep. This person was not sleeping well, and I thought it would help them sleep. It has also been known to help people lift that depression, and this person was going through some stuff and not feeling great emotionally. So I was thinking about those benefits. Three days into eating it, they call me and say, “I need another batch. I never want to run out of this stuff. My diarrhea is gone”. 

It has been almost a year or about nine months since I gave it to them. And I have been supplying them for the last nine months. Every two weeks, I make that person a big batch that lasts two weeks. I make a huge batch, and we all eat it. But they don't want to be without it because this is the only thing, and there's no pharmaceutical that has stopped their diarrhea. There's been no food change that stopped their diarrhea. The only thing that's ever worked has been this. So it's given this person their life back. Now they're doing up to three exercise classes a week, and they can go and just be so much more productive. So you have changed my life, and you changed their life. I know you've changed thousands of lives, and I want to thank you. And many listeners in our community are making the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt and sharing about it in the Learn True Health Facebook group. So we're having much fun with everything we've learned from you. So thank you, I appreciate you. And I can't wait to hear what you have been doing the last year since we had you on the show. So what's been going on in your world? 

[0:25:46.8] Dr. William Davis: Those are some pretty incredible stories. You know, you can see why I get so excited about this, just restoring this microbe that virtually all of us have lost. That is this microbe that all other mammals carry. Squirrels have it, and dogs have it. Camels have it. But we've lost it. Indigenous humans have it, you know, people not exposed to antibiotics, chlorinated drinking water, etc., glyphosate. They all have this microbe, and we've lost it. And you know, these wonderful experiences we're all having, like the ones you describe for yourself and your friend and other things people are experiencing, reflect just how necessary this microbe was. But the thing that gets me excited is the social effects of reuteri. So we boost the hormone oxytocin. If we believe the animal evidence from MIT, we've tried to reproduce that evidence. We're having a hard time measuring oxytocin. Measuring oxytocin has been for decades a very difficult thing to do. And we're struggling to do it also. So we still need to corroborate in humans. But if we believe the animal data from MIT and some other places, that reuteri tells your brain to release more oxytocin, the hormone of love and empathy. And so what people are experiencing, as you have experienced, are emotional and social effects. Mostly it increased the intensity of love and affection, generosity, and my favorite is accepting other people's opinions. 

Now, when you think about that, this is all occurring at a time when we've lost that microbe. Almost all of us have lost that microbe. And thereby presumptively, the ability to provoke oxytocin release at a time we're witnessing record social isolation. Even pre-pandemic, this was true. So record social isolation, record suicide, even pre-pandemic, divorce, shootings, and political discord. Humans have always been evil to each other. There's no question about that. But it doesn't seem to think things have gotten worse. Now, that's hard to prove, except that people who get the reuteri restored, as you and your friend and your followers have, will tell you, “You know what, my relationship is better.” I had this one woman come on and say, “You know, my husband is normally not a guy who expresses his emotions very clearly. One time I was sitting across from him, he said, I've always liked you. But I like you more now. Come here and sit next to me.” Little things like that. Or people say, “I'm in line for coffee at Starbucks, and I find myself introducing myself to strangers.” In other words, these little things in social interaction change. And people are getting rid of depressive thoughts and suicidal thoughts. I'm not suggesting it as a cure for everything. But we've pushed the needle towards better social behavior and connection to other humans. And there will be better skin, muscle, libido, sleep, etc. But the thing that really excites me is the change in the social fabric.

[0:29:12.2] Ashley James: Now, when we talked in Episode 476, what they saw in the animal studies was that when we have the correct amount of Lactobacillus reuteri in our gut, our body produces more collagen. 

[0:29:29.5] Dr. William Davis: Once again, if we believe the mouse studies and limited human evidence, as some of our own evidence too, by the way, in our first human clinical trial, there is an increase in collagen in the skin, in the dermal layer, the dermis. So in our clinical trial, we did something called high-resolution skin ultrasound to measure the thickness of the dermis, and we got a 14.5% increase in dermal thickness over three months. That's with a product and not just with reuteri. You know, these studies are very difficult and very expensive to perform. So we can only do limited numbers of people. But with a combination of reuteri and some other things, we get an increase in dermal thickness consistent with what they saw in the mouse studies and the limited human evidence. So in the mouse studies, there was a huge increase in dermal collagen, dermal thickness, and thereby loss of wrinkles. And they did take ladies. Remarkably, they had volunteers submit to puncture wounds in the forearm, which is tough to persuade somebody to accept a puncture wound. But these ladies did that. And while healing time in mice is accelerated dramatically, it cuts healing time by 50%. So healing is much faster. It was more like 35% in humans, but still quite substantial. If you think about that and if this holds true in future trials, there might be when incisions after surgery, burns, or injury, we can accelerate healing time. That's something I'd like to see explored over time.

[0:31:11.4] Ashley James: Well, if we can speed up the healing time of the skin, that also decreases the chances of getting an infection, right? Because when the wound is open, we're more susceptible to infection, especially for burn patients, as you said. But if we could take something like a salve that speeds up healing time by 35%, that's worth it. So that's going to help prevent infections. 

[0:31:43.9] Dr. William Davis: And it gets even better because we have to be careful in those animal studies. We extrapolate from animals. But so far, everything that's been in this instance where we talk about reuteri and oxytocin and the pieces examined in humans have proven true. What we've seen in mice has held true. We need to explore more, but many of the observations made in animals have also held true in humans. Things still need to be corroborated in humans, though. It was a huge improvement in the immune response in these mice, both in wounds and systemically. So one of the things that happened in the mouse study was something called thymic involution. All that means is the thymus gland, right in front of the heart underneath your sternum, reaches its maximum size and capacity to produce T lymphocytes or T cells that protect you from infections, including viral infections. It reaches its maximum size in T cell productivity at age 15. And then, every year after that, it shrinks. So that by age 70, it's only 10% of its original size and capacity to mount an immune response. And this is a big part of why you can die of flu at age 72 but not at age 18. So, when they gave elderly mice reuteri, they watched the thymus gland restored to its youth. So the reversal of the thymic involution would be very different. It's a tough thing to reproduce in humans. We could try that, but we don't have the budget. I'm hoping somebody does that study. Because when you have a thymus that's restored to youthful capacity, you're protected from things like pneumococcal, pneumonia, flu, and cancer because T cells are responsible for the process of immunosurveillance that is looking for cells that have mutations in them and uncontrolled growth or cancer in other words. The whole reuteri oxytocin thing will be the subject of many examination studies in the coming years because it is so exciting. 

[0:34:02.0] Ashley James: For those that have yet to listen to episode 476, a really important point to understand is that, as humans, we're supposed to have Lactobacillus reuteri. It's like we're supposed to have three arms and walk around with two arms. And we all think we're supposed to have two arms. We have all been missing an arm. As you said at our last interviews, if you have one course of antibiotics, it's wiped out. It's passed on through breast milk. So if you were bottle-fed, if your mother, grandmother, or even yourself as a child had antibiotics, even like you said, glyphosate drinking tap water with chlorine. There are all kinds of ways we can kill it. It's quite sensitive, as good gut bacteria go. But we're walking around, as a species, largely missing this piece to the puzzle. And this is where we're walking around missing part of ourselves. What we understand now about the gut, and maybe you can talk a bit about this, is that we're just beginning to understand the microbiome, and we thought the microbiome is about 6 pounds, right? Give or take about 6 pounds of bacteria that live inside our gut, but it's also all over our body. There's a microbiome surrounding our whole body that, like cell-to-cell, we're more bacteria than humans, and these bacteria in our cells help digest our food and assimilate certain nutrients for us. And that if we were completely sterile and had none of these bacteria, we could not survive. It would not be a healthy lifestyle; we need it all over our bodies.

[0:35:56.0] Dr. William Davis: You're absolutely right. I cringe to think how little we knew before we started thinking about the microbiome. I have a new granddaughter, about nine months old, and I watched the baby's mom go through prenatal care, delivery, and early infancy. I saw all the things that she was not told. This girl comes from a wealthy family with no shortage of resources, yet she was told virtually nothing. She got five antibiotic courses during the third trimester and after delivery, so I had to educate them. For instance, if a woman has vaginal dysbiosis, that disrupts the microbial composition of the vaginal canal, which is at least a third of the entire female population on this planet. The vaginal microbiome is much more definable than the gastrointestinal microbiome. It's much simpler. That microbiome is meant to be dominated by specific Lactobacillus species, specifically Lactobacillus crispatus. 

If a woman lacks that microbe and allows perforation, which is very common in species like gardnerella or atopobium, you have problems. You're more prone to vaginal infections like candida infections, you're more likely to have a miscarriage during pregnancy, and you're more likely to deliver your child prematurely. Because when you have that vaginal dysbiosis, it's inflammatory. It inflames the cervix, and the cervix tends to relax prematurely. And as you know, if you deliver a child at 30 weeks, that's a catastrophe. That child's going to be in the ICU. It's prone to necrotizing enterocolitis, psychological, etiological, and social deficits and learning impairments. So, why not correct vaginal dysbiosis. It's easy to do. I saw many things not being done. We may have touched and passed on this idea that a very specific species, Bifidobacterium infantis, has been lost by moms and is also not passed on to the babies, which might be passed on at vaginal birth and then also through breastfeeding. If the baby does not get that microbe, it does not grow as well as it should. Neurological growth is impaired. The babies are more likely not to sleep well and have more regurgitation of breast milk or formula. It has more bowel movements, diaper changes for mom and dad, and more health problems. They are more prone to diabetes, obesity, and asthma. But suppose you restore infantis to that child, especially if the mom is breastfeeding, Bifidobacterium infantis would allow the child to metabolize human milk oligosaccharides (HMOs). In that case, that baby has accelerated neurological maturation and has a better immune response, has 50% fewer bowel movements, thereby 50% fewer diaper changes, is more likely to sleep through the night, has less asthma, less Type 2 diabetes, less obesity, and has a higher IQ. That's how important getting the microbiome can be.

[0:39:20.4] Ashley James: Oh my gosh, all the moms listening just perked up. Now, if our kid's already born and they have some of those conditions, what can we do to help them? We can give them the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt. But is there a specific yogurt we could make for them, or could we ferment something to help them once they're born?

[0:39:47.4] Dr. William Davis: You raised an important issue that is hard for many people to get their arms around earlier. I encourage people to avoid the idea of treating things. That's what they do in medicine, right? They treat high blood sugar and they treat high blood pressure. Never once asked me why that condition emerged in the first place and what we could do to correct the whole situation. So, I encourage people to avoid this idea of treating things. If you treat somebody's high blood sugar with drugs, that person will still have heart disease, stroke, kidney failure, blindness, amputations, gastroparesis, etc. What if, instead, we address the factors that allowed those conditions to emerge in the first place, regardless of the label? Regardless of whether the label was asthma, hypertension, coronary disease, cognitive impairment, rosacea, psoriasis, ulcerative colitis, or Type 2 diabetes. Let's address the factors that allow those conditions to emerge in the first place. So we got to go back to the old conversation. We do wheat and grain and sugar elimination. As you've experienced yourself, the underlying cause for so many health problems, despite being pushed on us by government agencies, dieticians, and doctors. So getting rid of these things that never belonged to the human diet, in the first place, corrects common nutrient deficiencies. We're supposed to eat magnesium by drinking water from rivers and streams. We can't do that. It's got sewage.

[0:41:26.2] Ashley James: Especially now, with all that runoff from Ohio. If the listeners may not have known, there was a massive chemical spill, and my friends are just across Lake Erie. And they were telling me, for a week, they could taste the metals. They could taste the chemical smell in it. Even indoors, they could taste and smell it. And now they're saying the air is safe to breathe. The water and the soil are all safe there. Everything's safe. But my friends, who are 200 or even 400 miles away, say they can taste and smell it. This has been ridiculous for days. If you look at the streams from that area in Ohio, that runs off into that basin, into what's in Mississippi, and then goes out into the Gulf of Mexico. And there's our fish or shrimp. If you eat seafood next year, the fish and shrimp will have those chemicals. And I'm terrified of what we're going to face. Is this going to be like Minamoto, Japan, back in the 1930s, where children are born with multiple arms and eyes? It took them 20 or 30 years until they figured out that it was the mercury poisoning the downstream from all the factories dumping the mercury. This is another disaster they're covering up. We have to be very careful with the water we drink. It is tainted, right? 

As you said, we can't get our minerals just from drinking clean spring water because there's no such thing as clean spring water anymore. There are eighty thousand man-made chemicals in it. Since I was born, 80,000 man-made chemicals are now in our air, food, water, and soil. It's just prolific. And they say here in Seattle that we detect mercury from the ashes falling on us from China's coal mines and energy factories. So this isn't just, “Oh well, I'm here in this state, or in this province, and it's pretty clean here.” Now we are affected by what everyone puts in the air. For me, this isn't a political thing. I don't care what political affiliation you have. We can all agree on one thing: pollution is bad for us. Let's not talk about global warming because then people politicize it. Let's all agree on one thing. Pollution is bad, and no one wants to drink the water from Ohio after the accident recently. So the point is, pollution is hazardous and harmful for us, killing the microbiome of the soil and our bodies.

And we can't get the nutrients, as you said. I know I went off on a tangent. You were talking about the body's most important mineral, magnesium. It is used in over 1,800 enzymatic processes in the body. It is incredibly important, but we can't get it from nature anymore because of pollution. So, I went off on a tangent, but it's relevant because we can't be naive. We have to take the wool off our eyes and realize that our lives are under the constant stress of the pollution surrounding us and that stress is killing the body's microbiome. So we have to be proactive in supporting our body's microbiome because it's under constant stress from everything around us. Okay. Back to you, sorry. I got on my soapbox. Okay, I'm getting off.

[0:45:06.5] Dr. William Davis: But I couldn't agree more. You are right. It's a scary world out there. But with this idea, rather than treating things, we will address the factors that allowed diseases to emerge. There are more than four, but the four that played significant roles are magnesium, iodine, omega-3 fatty acids, and vitamin D. Now, the great thing is, you combine those four and also throw in the diet, and you reverse this very fundamental processes of insulin resistance and inflammation. Those processes lead to obesity, hypertension, heart disease, and stroke. So you've addressed the wide swath of human disease just by doing that. As you know, we all should go to the microbiome, the gathering, and testing microbiome, because what's happened with a lot of people is overexposure to antibiotics, toxic heavy metals, industrial compounds, chlorinated drinking water, and other prescription drugs like stomach acid-blocking drugs, statin cholesterol drugs, anti-inflammatory drugs, food additives like preservatives. They kill microbes and food and then you. 

The mucus barrier is very important. Many food additives disrupt the mucus barrier, like ice cream's mixing agent polysorbate 80. And so this onslaught of things that disrupt the human microbiome, among the effect is that we lost literally hundreds of healthy species that were doing good things for us. One of the effects that I think should be discussed more and that we have to start talking a lot more about is that healthy microbes keep unhealthy microbes at bay. Those unhealthy microbes, like E. coli, salmonella, and campylobacter, are mostly fecal. Many people recognize those microbes because they are also the microbes of food poisoning. These microbes proliferate, and then they do something extraordinary. They ascend into the 24 ft of the small intestine, and the small intestine is not well adapted to having fecal microbes. It has a thin and fragile mucus layer protecting itself, unlike the colon, where microbes are supposed to be, which has a two-layer and much thicker mucus barrier. So fecal microbes make their way into the 24 feet of the small intestine. They only live for a few hours. So when they die, trillions of these microbes shed their by-products. But there's one that's really bad, called endotoxin, which can penetrate the mucus barrier to the intestinal wall and enter the bloodstream. When endotoxin enters the bloodstream, it is called endotoxemia. 

But that is the crucial process that has been corroborated numerous times in clinical studies. Now we understand how microbes in the gastrointestinal tract can be experienced as depression in the brain, Parkinson's disease or Lou Gehrig's Disease or Alzheimer's, dementia, muscle and joint aches of fibromyalgia, or rheumatoid arthritis, or skin conditions like rosacea or psoriasis, or metabolic conditions, like fatty liver, Type 2 diabetes, and obesity. In other words, we now understand that microbes in the GI tract play a role in virtually all common chronic modern diseases.

[0:48:51.0] Ashley James: How would we know if we're over-toxic with endotoxemia? How would we know that we have endotoxemia? You've mentioned a bunch of different things. But if someone wonders if their depression is endotoxemia, would you say go for a lab test, or are there easier ways of telling? 

[0:49:13.7] Dr. William Davis: There are a number of ways. One way is to look for what I call telltale signs. Telltale signs would be food intolerances. If you say you can't eat eggplant or other nightshades or histamine-containing food like cheese or wine, or legumes or nuts, maybe not a hundred percent but close to 100% of food intolerance, all these things modern people are experiencing that your grandmother's not. Those are all from this process. So it's called small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). And that's the price that causes a high level of endotoxemia. So if you have any food intolerance, think plain SIBO. If you have fat malabsorption, you see fat drops in the toilet. That's a very high likelihood of SIBO and endotoxemia. So if you have certain conditions that are virtually synonymous with SIBO and endotoxemia, such as restless leg syndrome, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), inflammatory bowel diseases like Crohn's disease, celiac disease, and autoimmune or neurodegenerative condition, or fatty liver, there's a very high likelihood.

At first, I thought this was a rare process until I did two things. One is a consumer device now, and it's called the AIRE. It came out in 2018 and was invented by a Ph.D. engineer in Dublin, Ireland because his wife had irritable bowel syndrome and she was told to go on a low FODMAP diet. When you limit fibers and sugar in a person with IBS, they have less bloating and diarrhea. We saw how often she got tripped up when exposed to something fibrous or sugars and had bloating, diarrhea, etc. So he invented this device to detect hydrogen gas on the breath because that's produced by microbes when they are fed fibers and sugars. Well, I got a hold of this thing. I called him and said, “Angus, that's not really what this thing is.” This is a mapping device to tell you where microbes are living in the gastrointestinal tract. There is a specific way to use it based on timing. That's all on my Super Gut book on my website It's about $150 to $200, so it's not cheap, but it's far cheaper than a test you can do in the lab or clinic using a similar technology. The AIRE device is superior to the lab or clinic version because you're blowing directly into the hydrogen gas detector with the AIRE device. When you do this in a clinic or lab, you blow breath into a vial, trying to capture the smallest molecule of hydrogen gas. It's very easy to escape. So the AIRE device is superior. 

I started having people test for hydrogen gas using this timing issue. What you do is get a baseline level of 0 to 10, and you have a horizon of 4 units. So you get a baseline level. Let's say it's 1.2. You eat something that microbes eat, like inulin powder, which is a good one. It's a prebiotic fiber you put in your coffee. So drink your coffee with inulin and test every 30 to 45 minutes. And if you have a rise, let's say at 45 minutes it is 9.8, then you have microbes that are way high up in your GI tract. Producing hydrogen gas is normal from the colon, but the colon is 24 ft down or more from your mouth. It can't make that 24 feet in 90 minutes or 45 minutes. So any positive reading before 90 minutes, you know microbes live in the upper GI tract. After 90 minutes, we can't tell the difference between the distal small bowel disruption of microbes and colonic microbes. But doing this test, I was shocked. It was the exception of those who tested negative. People were testing positive left and right. So I returned to the scientific literature of all the studies where they took some conditions and asked what proportion of people with this condition tested positive for SIBO. One easy example is a fatty liver. So in the US, with 330 million people, we know that 50% of the US have fatty liver and are on their way to cirrhosis.

Based on the published science, 50% of people with fatty liver have tested positive for SIBO. So if there are 330 million people, half have fatty liver. That's 160 million or so. That's 80 million people there alone. How about irritable bowel syndrome? We know 60 to 70 million people in the US have irritable bowel syndrome. A proportion tested positive for SIBO. It varies from study to study, but it's around 40% or 24 million people. Add up all those other conditions like obesity, Type 2 diabetes, autoimmune conditions, and neurodegenerative conditions, and you have over 150 million people. There's some overlap, of course. How about an obese Type 2 diabetic with fatty liver? There will be some overlap, so it's not an exact number. But you can see, you can get very high numbers very quickly. So the bottom line is it is common. It is, in fact, very common by my estimates. It's somewhere around 1 and 2 people, 50%.

[0:55:00.3] Ashley James: You know, when we look at labs, there are these ranges that say if it's normal. And I question normal, especially hearing what you've just shared because normal doesn't really indicate healthy. We understand what a healthy range is. But naturopathic physicians will look at labs differently than how MDs have been taught in school. And it's interesting because there's normal, which is like, okay, so what's the average population? The average population is in this range. Well, I don't want to be part of the average population, especially if most have endotoxemia. And then, in the naturopathic realm, they typically look up what is optimal when they're looking at lab ranges. They're looking for how to get you to be absolutely in the optimal range. It doesn't sound like optimal is common among Americans. We're talking about Americans, but many other countries are catching up with America regarding our diseased state. 70% of adult Americans are on at least one prescription medication, so we have a very sick nation. We as a nation spend the absolute most on health care. I laugh, calling it health care because it's disease management. Of course, you wrote a book about how the medical system is failing us. So we have to learn, and that's why we're here. We're learning from you so that we can take charge of our health. If most of the population is so sick and has endotoxemia, that is not how we want it to be. We must make decisions to go against the norm to have optimal health. We have to do something different than what everyone else is doing to achieve optimal health. 

Going back to the idea that endotoxemia comes from the small intestine, how much does a leaky gut play a role in this? Is the endotoxin being deposited into the small intestine? Is that traveling up into the small intestines because of our diet? Can you go upstream and help us understand what is causing that? Let's say we're super healthy people just doing healthy things. We're exercising or drinking clean water. We're trying to eat as healthily as possible. We're avoiding the polysorbate 80 and ice cream. We're avoiding drugs as much as possible and keep being as healthy as possible. And yet, endotoxemia still exists. So what is causing that to happen? What is causing it to travel up and then die in our small intestines and release the endotoxins to be absorbed into our body? What are we doing wrong?

[0:58:11.0] Dr. William Davis: So, all those factors we discussed disrupt the microbial composition of your GI tract, such as repeated antibiotics. It's not uncommon that by age 40, most people have taken 30 courses of antibiotics. Glyphosate and other herbicides, pesticides, carbonated drinking water, halogenated hydrocarbons — all those things conspire to kill off numerous microbes. That also hints at a solution here. So as you know, if you have SIBO and endotoxemia, that's 30 ft of trillions of microbes that don't belong in the small bowel. If you took a commercial probiotic, would it go away? No. You might reduce some of the symptoms of bloating or some of the diarrhea, but you'll still be left with 30 ft of fecal microbes. And so I asked a different question, a conventional solution. If the mainstream doctors even knew what it was, and most of the time, they'd say things like, “Did you consult doctor Google again, Ashley?” Or, “There's nothing wrong with you. Don't waste my time. There is no such thing.” All these silly answers because they're not keeping up with the science. That's always been true. It takes a generation for the current practicing physicians to catch up with the science. I know you, me, and your listeners are unwilling to wait twenty or thirty years. That's how long you must wait for John Q's primary care to catch up. 

So I asked different questions. If SIBO was 30 feet of microbes, including 24 feet of the small intestine, what if we chose species we've lost that have two characteristics? One, they colonize the small intestine. That's where SIBO occurs and produces what is called bacteriocins. These are natural antibiotics effective against the species of SIBO, like E.coli and campylobacter. So I chose three. I chose a strain of Lactobacillus gasseri and Lactobacillus reuteri. Those two colonize the upper GI tract. Gasseri produces up to seven bacteriocins and reuteri up to four. I also threw in bacillus coagulants because it's got a good track record for eradicating irritable bowel syndrome. And by the way, it is the most delicious yogurt you'll ever make. We make yogurt from this, different from what you get in the grocery store. I regret calling it yogurt. It looks and smells like yogurt, but it's not yogurt. It is a fermentation vehicle. So we get these three microbes and co-ferment them together for 36 hours. It's a very unusual extended fermentation. That was a method I developed and we formed something called flow cytometry on the yogurt to count the microbes, and we get somewhere around three hundred billion microbes per half-cup serving. 

And so these microbes that we've lost, used to colonize the upper GI tract and produce bacteriocins, are a big part of why we've got SIBO. Now, the good news is there is this anecdote of the forty or so people who made this SIBO yogurt. 90% now test negative by the AIRE device. Even the conventional antibiotic for SIBO, Xifaxan, is only about 50% to 60% effective. I had hoped and would have been thrilled with 50% effectiveness. I did not expect 90% effectiveness. Now we will do a formal clinical trial down the road to validate this. If I said the solution to SIBO is to take out your intestines or some awful thing like that, we better be damned confident of what's going on. But what if the solution is something akin to yogurt? And so I've drifted towards this kind of thinking. If you think you have SIBO, make the SIBO yogurt. This can sometimes happen with the reuteri yogurt. I suspect that's what happened in your instance when you got rid of some of the dark feelings, and your friend got rid of diarrhea. It was probably because of SIBO eradication, the reuteri upper GI colonization, and bacteriocin production. I have a microbiologist friend. Oddly, I just moved from Milwaukee, Wisconsin to suburban Chicago. But in this general area, especially in Wisconsin, there are numerous and the largest probiotic manufacturers in the world. It's because of the dairy industry and fermentation. But there's a microbiologist, and his name is Suresh. He told me that he sometimes uses Lactobacillus reuteri to clean his fermentation vats that they use to produce microbes. I said, “Really? Come on!” So I called another microbiologist friend, Dr. Raul Cano, from Cal Poly Tech, and said, “Hey Raul, Suresh says he cleans his fermentation vats with L. reuteri. Does that sound right to you?” He says, “Oh yeah.” That's how potent a micro reuteri is. Ironically, it's also extremely susceptible to common antibiotics like Amoxicillin. So if you took Amoxicillin, maybe 20 years ago, for an upper respiratory infection, it killed off your reuteri and some others. That opened the door for small intestine colonization and endotoxemia.

[1:03:36.5] Ashley James: To clarify, with the microbiologist using the L. reuteri to clean their devices, is it because it digests other bacteria or somehow fights them off? How does it effectively help to clean the devices?

[1:03:59.2] Dr. William Davis: The pharmaceutical industry constantly looks for new antibiotics. Do you know where they're discovering them? From microbes as bacteriocins. We don't have to get involved with the pharma people, but it tells you these bacteriocins are potent and specific for fecal microbes. So I think that's why we're seeing many people normalize their breath hydrogen gas. They wouldn't be that interesting if all they do is normalize your breath hydrogen gas. I'm also seeing that something normalized your hydrogen gas and then says something like, “I lost 73 lb in your program, but I hit a plateau. I could not lose the last 35 lbs. I now lost it.” Or, “I was a Type 2 diabetic. My hemoglobin A1C was 11.7, which is terrible. I did your program and dropped the 6.1%. Much better but not perfect, which is 5.0 % or less. I normalized my SIBO hydrogen gas. It's now 4.7%.” Or, “My rosacea is 80% better on the program, but it's not gone. I have occasional flare-ups. I got rid of the SIBO and endotoxemia.” I see case after case of residual health problems finally going away for good.

[1:05:21.6] Ashley James: Oh, I love it. So many listeners are in that spot where they hit a plateau. They'd cleaned up so much of their lives and got good results, and then that plateau happened. But it could be better. Especially the “Oh, I can't eat this, and I can't eat that. Now I can eat this.” And I know some people who can only breathe air. I have one friend who had to resort to the carnivore diet. She loves vegetables, but now she has just reverted to being unable to eat anything except meat. She really would love to be able to tolerate vegetables. I did get her to read your book. I know that she started off with making the cranberry juice ferments, and I need to talk to her and see how that went because I had sent her to you to start studying from you. Lactobacillus reuteri is like nature's version of an antibiotic, which will help clean up the area of an overgrowth of something we don't want. 

[1:06:36.4] Dr. William Davis: Exactly! And it colonized the upper GI tract. In other words, it goes where the battle is waged in the small intestine and produces those bacteriocins. By the way, maybe your listeners want to know about that juice you're talking about. So I call that Saccharomyces boulardii sparkling juices. It's so easy. If someone's new to fermentation, it's a really easy and simple way to get introduced to it. You get some juice. Hopefully, it's real juice. It just can't have any preservatives like potassium sorbate or sodium benzoate. Nothing like that, just juice. Preferably a pulpy type juice like apple cider or mango. Empty one capsule of Florastor. It's a commercial probiotic and includes the fungus Saccharomyces boulardii. It is the cousin of Saccharomyces cerevisiae, used to make wine and beer. So empty one capsule, cap it, lightly agitate to mix, loosen the cap, and put it on your kitchen counter. In 24 hours, you're going to see it bubbling. It's producing vast amounts of carbon dioxide. So keep that cap loose because it can explode if you don't. At 48 hours, you have beautiful sparkling juice. The microbes have reduced sugar content by about half, but some sugar is still in it. So use small portions, no more than a quarter cup, several times daily. It's one of the most powerful things you can do to help rebuild a broken microbiome. If you must take a course of antibiotics, this juice is the best thing to protect your gastrointestinal microbiome from further damage.

[1:08:20.7] Ashley James: What I love about that is it so affordable because that one bottle of the Florastor will last you a lifetime. If you're making this juice with one capsule and then drinking small amounts throughout the day, you can use it for a long time. So many people spend $30 to $50 per bottle of probiotics and keep having to buy it every month. Whereas you teach us how to take it and then culture it so that we're only buying one bottle every six months and culturing it to way more than what was in that bottle. Like when we make Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt, we culture it so much.

[1:09:10.0] Dr. William Davis:  Good point, Ashley. You're right. You save money because you make the next batch from a bit of the previous one. And you're exactly right. You can do this with probiotics also and save a ton of money. One of the things we need to know is there are ten different microbial species in your probiotic. Several batches, in relative proportions, are going to change. I generally tell people that when you're about seven, eight, nine, or ten batches in, start over again. So you go back to the start if you want to continue. Let's say you plant backyard zucchini, tomatoes, and cucumbers. We know that zucchinis are aggressive and will eventually take over the garden. It happened with microbes. They are competing with each other, and it's going to change relative proportions. So when you're several batches in, think about starting over again. But you're still saving a huge amount of money.

[1:10:07.2] Ashley James: Got it. I've been thinking about skin, knowing that bacteria live on it and that we used these antibacterial soaps in the past. Even things with fragrances can disrupt the microbiome. And now, I understand that our skin's microbiome is very delicate and really needed. Some women have acne that goes away by focusing on protecting the skin's microbiome. You mentioned the rosacea going away, but at the back of my mind, what about people with eczema and psoriasis? How does restoring the microbiome help them as well?

[1:10:54.7] Dr. William Davis: I urge people to start with the basics: diet and nutrients affecting insulin resistance and inflammation. That also plays a significant role in skin conditions. But you're right. SIBO, endotoxemia, and dysbiosis confined in the colon also play a role. If you have a condition like psoriasis or rosacea, what needs to be clarified is how much benefit there is to addressing the skin microbiome directly. There is some preliminary evidence that when you have a skin rash like eczema, there is an imbalance in the relative proportion of the normal skin inhabitant called staphylococcus epidermidis. And there's an increase in unhealthy microbe, staphylococcus aureus. We still need better information, but believing that you can restore staphylococcus epidermidis and other healthy microbes in the skin is tempting. It could further impact the skin rash.

[1:11:58.5] Ashley James: When we say that your skin is a reflection of your gut, and your skin is a reflection of what's going on inside you, and often we see that by removing gluten grains, the skin improves. Even with the Lactobacillus reuteri supporting a healthy gut microbiome, we see skin improvement, just like your studies showing that the dermal layer is increasing. We have an increase in collagen production. We see outward beauty, and there are anecdotal stories about women noticing wrinkles going away. We see the skin become more vibrant when our internal health becomes more vibrant. I don't want to look fifty when I'm fifty. I want to look super healthy because I worked hard on it. 

Don't we all want to look super healthy on the outside when we're doing so much to be healthy on the inside? I want everyone to feel amazing inside and have that outward reflection. I don't think he was joking, but I got mistaken for being in my twenties at the bank the other day. He thought I was the daughter of my mother-in-law. He was shocked to hear my age, and I was on a high rest of the day. But I have also been doing a lot to be healthy for many years, and it's paying off. I see it in the mirror. 

You talked in episode 476 about the women who noticed that they looked younger and more vibrant when they looked in the mirror after correcting their gut health and introducing Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt into their lives. I want to dig deeper into this. You have done some human clinical trials, and you were talking about something you invented that has Lactobacillus reuteri in it for the skin. Can we get into that?

[1:14:07.1] Dr. William Davis: Sure. Many ladies are making the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt, but they keep saying, “I'm sick and tired of making the yogurt. Do you have some way I can just buy it?” Or, “I'm traveling and don't want to bring my yogurt-making apparatus.” So I formulated a product that included Lactobacillus reuteri and added components like marine-sourced collagen hydrolysates and hyaluronic acid. That combination has been working very well for us. We had a preliminary trial, and we got very nice results. We did a formal clinical trial and did measures like high-resolution skin ultrasounds and did see improvement in dermal thickness as well as the investigator dermatologist and participant ratings on such things as moisture, glow, and luster. 

We got very nice results and will continue to explore and validate all these kinds of effects, but I'm very encouraged by what we see in our preliminary trials. It is consistent with all the things seen in the mouse trials and other human evidence. So we're on the right track to providing a product called Gut to Glow that contains Lactobacillus reuteri with added components to stack the odds in favor of better skin. 

We know from other people's science that there is much evidence that collagen peptides reduce skin wrinkles and make your joints better because joint cartilage is mostly collagen. There is good science to tell us that when you ingest collagen orally, it gets to the joints and the skin and the hyaluronic acid. Hyaluronic acid is the body's master moisturizer. So you take it orally, and it gets to the skin, moisturizes the skin dermal layer and not just the epidermis, like a topically applied hyaluronic acid, and it also adds to joint lubrication. I believe we're going to start seeing evidence that hyaluronic acid also has beneficial effects on the brain because the brain has a lot of hyaluronic acids, and so do the uterus, cervix, and vagina. Dryness is a problem for ladies in their late 60s and 70s. Hyaluronic acid is a major component of the female reproductive tract. So, we will have to validate these kinds of effects over time. But so far, even in preliminary evidence, we've had some very nice results.

[1:16:41.3I] Ashley James: While listening, I thought, is this a face cream? What's going on? So you've created a way to take it internally. It's a supplement, and we see results on the skin. But when you see the skin getting better, we also know it affects the skin on the inside, right? Because the lungs are related to skin tissue, the gut is related to skin tissue. They're very related to its use of collagen, and it won't affect the skin on the outside. It's going to also play a role in helping on the inside as well. 

[1:17:25.6] Dr. William Davis: Absolutely. It is reuteri, after all. We use a different strain than the one that was used in the MIT studies, and we're validating how much this one microbe does. We did some animal work, and we're doing some human work with that strain. So much more must be explored, but we see very positive effects. So many more clinical trials are planned, all the way to budget. But we see some exciting early effects as you've experienced in your friend's experience and some of your listeners. So that's why I cringe to think how little we knew just a few years ago. 

When you factor in all the effects of the microbiome, you know almost nothing about health. But it plays a huge role in all aspects of health. We are seeing big effects on many emotional and mental issues like anxiety. One of the biggest effects of endotoxemia is anxiety. Also, fungal overgrowth in the gastrointestinal tract is a common symptom of anxiety. I see people being prescribed Xanax and other anti-anxiety drugs when, a lot of the time, it's overgrowth either of bacteria or fungi or both. And we see dramatic reductions in anxiety. Not from the Gut to Glow. This is just addressing the overgrowth of bacteria and fungi. So we see dramatic effects on the reduction of anxiety and depression. 

[1:19:00.5] Ashley James: Yeah, I know you have to be careful when formulating and selling a supplement to make medical claims. And I know you need to be very careful with your language. But we can look at the effect, what each ingredient is, how all the science around it, and the results you would get from it. And then, we can hope to get that same result by taking a supplement with those same ingredients. I'm excited to hear more about your clinical trials. Is there anything else you can share specifically about your clinical trials or upcoming projects you are working on around this? 

[1:19:44.8] Dr. William Davis: I can't say everything until our patents are filed because of some intellectual property issues. One of the things we saw in our first human clinical trial was an unexpected dramatic change in body composition. So we're going to explore that. And I'll talk about that in the coming months or years as we surpass these patent protections. Suffice it to say that we have the capacity, I believe, or will in the future, dramatically affect the body shape.

[1:20:15.7] Ashley James: Wow, that is very cool. Please share your hypothesis around why you believe that effect happens. 

[1:20:27.5] Dr. William Davis: I did design a very elaborate clinical trial. It won't get done for another six months because it's costly, and we will look at things like DEXA for body composition, baseline, and follow-up. So we can measure endotoxin; it's called LPS serum. I believe that we're going to see an improvement in insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is the fundamental process that drives risks for diabetes, heart disease, dementia, cancers, and other modern chronic conditions. If you can improve insulin resistance, you greatly impact that person's health. So we need to document if there is a change in insulin resistance. I think there will be, but we need to prove that. You know these very popular drugs, Wegovy and Ozempic, are called GLP-1 agonists because they reduce blood sugar. But you may have heard that people are scrambling for these drugs because they lead to weight loss also. They work because they're GLP-1 agonists. That's one thing we also have to explore. Do we have a GLP-1 agonist alternative? We have yet to find answers to many things, but we will explore clinical trials. 

[1:21:49.5] Ashley James: That's so exciting. We need a listener who just won the lottery to just donate a million dollars. We need someone with just a few million dollars, and it's burning a hole in their pocket. If I won the lottery, I would be spending for some really cool clinical trials. I think it will be a lot of fun to fund holistic clinical trials that could help revolutionize the world and the whole planet as we know it. If we could introduce everyone to these seemingly simple aids, tools, and solutions, make the Florastor juice, or try some of the Lactobacillus reuteri to correct their gut and endotoxemia, many people would get off of anxiety and sleep meds. Many people would get off of antidepressants or antacids. Just think of all the things that people could correct. 

This is something that a lot of my listeners know already, but maybe some don't, but every time we take a drug, it depletes the body of key nutrients because the liver and the kidneys have to process it, and it forces the body to do something. It forces a physiological effect. It's not gentle, and it's not natural. And so a lot of times, these drugs people take deplete the body further and further when the body was already depleted, to begin with. I see a world, my kind of Utopia, where everyone is so healthy they don't need drugs, or 90% fewer drugs because we're so healthy, we don't need them. Think about people with chronic pain. 

You mentioned fibromyalgia. A friend had a morphine pump surgically installed in her body. That's how much pain she was in. This was fifteen years ago. She brought me into her bedroom and showed me her two drawers in her bedside table dresser. She opened both doors and said these are all my meds. And she goes, “Most of these are pain meds.” She was not overweight, ate very healthily, and she was in chronic pain all the time. And I heard about how certain key nutrient deficiencies can exacerbate and sometimes even trigger chronic pain. And so I got her some vitamins and minerals, especially selenium. There's been a link to low sodium levels leading toward exacerbating that chronic pain known as fibromyalgia. I preached to go gluten-free, but I don't know if she did. Within a few months of doing that, she told me, “You know, those two drawers, just with the changes, I got rid of one drawer.” Fifty percent of her meds were reduced in months by taking some minerals and vitamins. And maybe she did listen to me and got rid of the gluten.

If we can make that change. If we could just increase certain nutrients or correct the gut and someone could eliminate their meds by 50% or 75%, their quality of life is going up and up and up. So that's my vision for the world; to have the tools you teach in your books and on your website. And then now, I love you've created the Gut to Glow formula so that we can help people restore themselves from the inside to glow on the outside. So I get the marketing, and I like the name. It's simple, and it's catchy. I like it. 

[1:25:56.6] Dr. William Davis: You make an excellent point, Ashley. That is the unintended adverse consequences of pharmaceuticals. Even drugs that people thought were benign, like stomach acid-blocking drugs, or statin cholesterol drugs, are now known to have very serious impacts on health and on the microbiome. So stomach acid-blocking drugs turn off stomach acid and allow oral microbes. The mouth is second only to the colon in the density of microbes. Think about that when you're kissing somebody. So when you lose stomach acids, oral microbes populate the stomach and duodenum, and fecal microbes ascend in the small bowel. This is all from just blocking stomach acid, likewise statin cholesterol drugs. Even if you're slender and young, it turns your gastrointestinal microbiome into the microbiome of an obese Type 2 diabetic. And that's the presumptive reason to explain why there's a 30% to 50% increase in your likelihood of developing Type 2 diabetes when you take a statin cholesterol drug.

[1:27:02.9] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. Yes, we did have a conversation in one of our interviews. It might have been the first interview we did about statins. Because I get on my soapbox with them on how absolutely horrible they are for our health, and the benefits are so minuscule in relation to the horrible effects of statins, and you were able to outline that. What people don't understand is that it harms the liver. It makes the liver not produce the cholesterol our body's trying to produce, and it doesn't actually correct. Heart disease isn't caused by the cholesterol. Cholesterol is wrapped up like smoke. You see smoke in anything and call that there must be a fire. It's like smoke is causing the fire, right? It's the other way around. There's inflammation. There's our whole lifestyle that's leading to that disease. Taking a statin is just going to disrupt so many functions. Everyone thinks that they need to lower LDL. With your background, what is the best way to help the body lower LDL cholesterol, have good healthy cholesterol, and be free of heart disease?

[1:28:27.5] Dr. William Davis: I tell people to get a big black magic marker, cross out those numbers, and ignore them. There is a lot there to talk about. But the real tragedy of focusing on cholesterol is that it took everybody's attention away from the real causes of heart disease. You're exactly right. Statin cholesterol drugs reduce cardiovascular events in a very minor way. They help a little bit, but what about all the other causes you mentioned, like insulin resistance, inflammation, vitamin D deficiency, omega-3 fatty acid deficiency, and endotoxemia? Those are all very important causes that any cardiologist hardly ever mentions. So, what I do is throw away cholesterol testing. We do the real test, which is lipoprotein testing, like an NMR Lipoprotein testing. We measure insulin resistance, like fasting glucose, insulin, and hemoglobin A1C. We look at your vitamin D status with the 25-hydroxy vitamin D. We look at your thyroid status with TSH, T3, T4, and Reverse T3 thyroid antibodies. 

You can add other things, but if you just do those basic tests, you will see that cholesterol has nothing to do with heart disease. In the 1950s and 1960s, cholesterol was meant to be an indirect marker for the factors, like lipoproteins which are the fat-carrying proteins in the bloodstream, that actually cause heart disease. During those times, it was very difficult to measure lipoprotein. So they devised very crude indirect methods to quantify them, and they said, measure cholesterol. It was not meant to be the cause. It was meant to be an indirect marker. But it became viewed as the cause because it makes a lot of money for the pharmaceutical industry. When you focus on cholesterol, this outdated house of cards, you start to come away with false lessons. That's why 80 million Americans take statin cholesterol drugs, but there's been no reduction in heart disease incidence. And that's why your local hospital can add on a hundred million dollar new cardiovascular wing because heart disease remains hospitals' number one money maker. So the dirty little secret is my colleagues like that there continue to be lots of heart disease because they're not focusing on the real causes. The truth of it is, managing cardiovascular risk is easy and almost free and does not require a drug in 99.9% of people.

[1:31:03.5] Ashley James: I love it. Thank you so much for clarifying that because our friends and family need to hear this. The second you go to a hospital, you go to your doctor, and you're over a certain age, they automatically want to put you on a cholesterol med. I feel the pharmaceutical industry sends those doctors to Jamaica once a year or something, there's got to be some kind of incentive because of how prolific it is. It depletes the body of CoQ10, and it bruises the liver, which produces healthy cholesterol. People end up with neuropathy, and they're falling down, breaking their hip or whatever, because they're not able to feel. I have an uncle who can't feel his hands and feet and has not been able to feel them for years. He's been on statins for years, and I've been begging him to please get off them. And he's like, “No, my doctor is smarter and knows what he's doing.” Then he just falls down all the time because he can't feel his hands or feet. It's the neuropathy from taking the statins, and it's just mind-blowing. Everyone is just keeping the wool over their eyes. “Nope, my doctor knows what they're doing. I'm not going to question anything. I don't want to be accused of listening to Dr. Google.” It's like, “Advocate for yourself.” This is a for-profit industry, right? Like, people question the dealership more when they're buying a car than they do their doctor when they are being put on a drug. 

[1:32:26.8] Dr. William Davis: Very true. That's a critical thing to understand. It is exactly a profit-making venture. Sadly, it shouldn't be that way. But what's put first in the healthcare system is revenue and profit; it's not health.

[1:32:45.4] Ashley James: So I know we've got a bunch of black sheep salmon swimming upstream, kind of listeners who are ready and willing to do what it takes to regain their health. But our friends and family love their statins, and the damage has been done. And, of course, all the drugs people take also disrupt the microbiome. Because it affects the mitochondria, we're really just only beginning to understand everything. I feel like a hundred years from now, we'll look back and look at these drugs like we do now, when we look at leeches and end up bleeding the body. Like in the 1500s and 1700s when bloodletting was all the rage, and now it's like drugs are all the rage. In a hundred years, it's definitely going to be microbiome-based medicine. That's for sure. 

I see that we're going into an era where we will be using light as therapy and phototherapy, and we will be using the microbiome and supporting using different healthy bacterial strains to balance the body. Especially if you can take one and increase your collagen. It's amazing that you can make your skin beautiful. How long do people start to notice a difference in their skin? That must take time. Like when you take certain supplements for hair, skin, and nails, it's not right away because the body is doing triage work on the inside. And then maybe three months down the road, you start noticing better hair, skin, and nails when you're taking those kinds of supplements with niacin and the different biotin in those kinds of things. But how long do people see results when they take the Gut to Glow formula? 

[1:34:26.4] Dr. William Davis: We've seen subtle changes at four weeks that become more marked at eight and then twelve weeks of the fine, low volume wrinkles like crow's feet around the eyes, and the smile line. Those tend to recede visibly by twelve weeks. The deeper wrinkles, like nasolabial fold along the sides of the mouth, the big ones, or the forehead wrinkles, those require more volume, so we don't know. Our clinical trials have only gone to twelve weeks or three months. We don't know just how much you can expect long-term, but I predict that they'll have an effect longer-term. But we're seeing an introduction to fine wrinkles at twelve weeks, increasing skin moisture so much that they are telling us they don't need to use as much moisturizer on the face and hands anymore, and there's a kind of glow. I think that's the increase in sebum, which is the moisturizer of the skin. That's among the earliest effects. The increased moisture can happen within days, visibly by four weeks, but more so by eight to twelve weeks. 

[1:35:30.4] Ashley James: You've mentioned the other areas for females, like vaginal dryness when we age. Are women noticing that by taking this, they're noticing they're less dry in other areas? 

[1:35:44.6] Dr. William Davis: We haven't looked at that in our clinical trials because it wasn't among the endpoints we're looking at. Every week, I have a two-way Zoom. Like last night, I did it for two hours with ninety-eight people. I casually asked them, are you experiencing an increase in vaginal moisture? Let's talk about this for a moment. As ladies get older, through menopause, particularly in their late 60s and 70s, it becomes universal that a woman will experience what the gynecologists now label as the genitourinary syndrome of menopause (GSM). The three facets are loss of libido, vaginal atrophy, dryness, irritation, discharge and pain, and urinary complaints like urge incontinence. You pee when you cry, cough, or repeated urinary tract infections. So it's lost libido, vaginal atrophy, and urinary problems. 

I believe we can address the whole thing, but that's another formulation I created. I can't tell you fully. I'll probably talk about that when I'm back within the next year.

[1:36:51.5] Ashley James: Well, come back in a year and update us. 

[1:36:56.0] Dr. William Davis: But I will tell you, I think the reuteri may be key here. So we have no clue or data. I'm going by what is known from some other people's science that the reuteri, I believe, is a key component for ladies to regain vaginal moisture. And it doesn't hurt to throw in hyaluronic acid because the cervix and vagina are largely hyaluronic acids. 

[1:37:21.7] Ashley James: Love it. Well, I can't wait to hear about stuff happening in the next year. We'll definitely have you back on with this. We should do an annual meet-up over the minds and hear all the updates.

[1:37:35.5] Dr. William Davis: I'd be happy to, Ashley.

[1:37:36.3] Ashley James: I will start hunting for a millionaire to invest in more trials for you. I'll let you know when I find one. I'm sure there's one out there that is excited as me and wants to get where these clinical trials are going. That would be fun. 

When we talked about making the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt, you were clear that it needs to be made with something that contains fat. And I remember looking around, going at plant-based options. I need to make sure there's something really fatty, so I came upon cashew yogurt. It works really well with the cashew

[1:38:12.7] Dr. William Davis: I'd love to see your recipe, by the way.

[1:38:13.4] Ashley James: I will gladly share it. It's amazing and so delicious. As I said, I've made over thirty batches, so I played with and perfected it. I make it thick, like Greek yogurt. I tried coconut yogurt with coconut cream. Honestly, it was disgusting. The soy one was even worse, but I got the results. I felt it was the worst thing I've ever eaten/drank. It was like liquid, so I just drank it. It was the worst-tasting thing ever, but I was willing to do it because I felt amazing. But now I've perfected the cashew yogurt. It's thick, like Greek yogurt. It's so delicious, I'm actually salivating right now thinking about it. 

But when you said it's really important that we make Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt with a fat component, that surprised me. I guess it shouldn't surprise me, but it does because I always think we need carbohydrates when we ferment. So to hear that, we got to make sure that there's some fat in this, and for me, it's a plant-based fat coming from cashews. But, can you explain why a Lactobacillus reuteri or why this particular formula requires us, when we take or ingest it, to have fat? 

[1:39:37.5] Dr. William Davis: I think what's confusing is, most yogurt is low-fat or nonfat. I reject the whole notion that we should limit fat, and so I use organic half and half, which is 18% fat because I think we should get that. Dairy's got tissues, but the most beneficial component of dairy is the fat, ironically. So it's just part of my rejection of the low-fat notion. But you actually don't need fat. You can ferment, for instance, salsa which is very low in fat. Hummus is also a good vehicle. I've never done the cashew, so I'm dying to see your recipe. People always ask, “I don't want to do dairy. What else can I do?” I've been suggesting coconut milk, which makes an okay yogurt. 

[1:40:24.0] Ashley James: It's gross. I'll share mine. You'll love it. It's delicious. You'll want to do it instead of cow milk. Does the body need to have fat to utilize Lactobacillus reuteri, or is it just because you see fat as a healthy component of our diets that we shouldn't shy away from it? 

[1:40:52.3] Dr. William Davis: As you pointed out, the microbe just needs some kind of either fiber or sugar. It doesn't really need the fat. But you need fat. A total of forty years of this ridiculous experiment in cutting total fat and saturated fat to show us how harmful that is, in some ways, I'm grateful that the government agencies and the pharmaceutical industry screwed up so badly because it shows us what happens. Because we now have an epidemic of unhealthy humans — obese, diabetic, with autoimmune diseases, and greater cognitive impairment all because of misguided dietary advice, absurd pharmaceuticals, and a predatory food system.

[1:41:43.4] Ashley James: Oh, that's so well put. I was just explaining the predatory food system the other day. I do it all the time, but the other day I was talking to a personal trainer who's super into health, and he said, “Yeah, I can't get my kid to stop eating Doritos.” I'm like, “Wait for a second, you have Doritos in your house?” And so, I had to back up in a super loving way. Just something to understand, if any food comes from a manufacturer, that company has hired food scientists to make it hyper-palatable and to tickle your brain as cocaine does. If it comes out of a package, every single company has figured out exactly how much salt, monosodium glutamate, red dye, how much of everything it takes to light your brain scan up, like the Fourth of July, so that you will keep eating their gross excuse for food. We're addicted as a world to these processed foods that are highly Frankenfoods. But they light up our brains and make us feel good, and we think, “Oh, we feel good. We got to keep eating this.” 

And as Dr. Joel Fuhrman says, cocaine can make you feel good too, but it's not good for you. So stop thinking that food that makes you feel good is good for you and focus on foods that don't come from manufacturers but from a farm. Eat food that comes from a farm, not a manufacturer, and you'll be doing so much better with your health. I had a food scientist on the show, and she explained that crazy world behind the scenes of how they will look at brain scans. This is like the company that makes these things like Doritos. They will do these neuro studies on exactly how much of each of these ingredients they need to put in to make you as addicted as possible, to make the dopamine go up as much. So we got to be really careful. And then how much do all those chemicals affect the gut microbiome? Whatever we eat is not only feeding ourselves, but it's feeding the bacteria in our guts. You have to be careful because what you feed in your gut is what you're going to get in your life. 

[1:44:03.6] Dr. William Davis: I couldn't agree more, Ashley. Modern processed food is a disaster. 

[1:44:10.8] Ashley James: I'm spinning thinking about the possibilities. So in your book, there are many other things to look for. I love that you have this table of different strains of bacteria, and it's almost like you're looking at a pharmacy for your gut. If these are your symptoms, you go for this. If this is your problem, then start with this. Athletes can take a different probiotic for this function. I'm thinking about kids because kids don't necessarily need Lactobacillus reuteri. Maybe they do, but can kids benefit from taking Gut to Glow? Or is there a different strain that would be better for them? Or maybe tell me who would benefit most from taking the Gut to Glow formula with the Lactobacillus reuteri in it? 

[1:45:13.0] Dr. William Davis: I look at the Gut to Glow as a convenience for someone who doesn't want to make the yogurt and wants a better skin effect because of the added components or does something like travel and doesn't want to bring their yogurt-making apparatus. But there's another question here. Who needs reuteri? The only group I think that should not do the yogurt as written are pregnant ladies because when you approach the two weeks or so prior to delivery, the density of oxytocin receptors goes up to a hundredfold in the uterus in preparation for delivery. That's why, say you want to deliver your child on Wednesday, August 23rd at 8 a.m., you're instructed to come to the hospital, and they put an IV, and they give you the oxytocin injection, and it causes uterine contraction. So it's probably not wise to get that super duper high counts of reuteri, and thereby presumptively oxytocin in a pregnant woman. 

But when you think about it, if all primitive humans have reuteri, if all mammals have it and we're the exception, and by the way, there is evidence to show us that only forty years ago, the majority of people had reuteri. Now almost nobody has it. So I think having it is good for everybody, even a pregnant woman. What I don't know is the three hundred or so billion microbes in the yogurt for a half-cup serving. Is that advisable? Probably not. And so what I tell ladies who are pregnant or of childbearing age, or children, is you can make the yogurt, but do a mixed culture yogurt. Think about if all you grew in your 10×10 backyard garden are tomatoes, you can have a lot of tomatoes. What if you grew tomatoes, zucchini, cucumbers, and squash, how many tomatoes will you have? You have far fewer. So you can do a mixed-culture yogurt. One easy trick is to start with your reuteri. You can start with capsules or tablets, or you can get some reuteri yogurt from someone else or probably a batch of your own, and then get a commercial yogurt with four or five other microbes and mix them together. So you have maybe four or five or six different microbes, and you won't get those super duper high counts that are perfectly safe for kids or for a pregnant lady.

[1:47:55.6] Ashley James: Oh, that's brilliant. Now I have noticed since I've been eating it for the last year that I can eat it for a few days and feel the effects for weeks. I feel most of that euphoria, and then I feel it slowly drop off, and then I eat some more. So I don't eat it every day now. I used to, but now I wanted to see how long this lasts. And it does last. I feel like it lasts for a few weeks, and then it drops off. We talked a little bit about this. I want to know if there's any more science that you follow up on all the recent studies around it. Have we figured out, or are we any closer to figuring out how to repopulate the gut with Lactobacillus reuteri so that it sustains itself?

[1:48:49.0] Dr. William Davis: It's a fundamental question. It's a very critical question that we don't have an answer to. So if mom gave you reuteri by passage through the birth canal and breastfeeding and barring exposure to things like antibiotics, you will carry that microbe for a lifetime. But if you get it from yogurt or a capsule, you get it for a few weeks at best. What's the difference? Microbes live in communities, just like humans do. In other words, we don't live by ourselves. We have partners, families, co-workers, neighbors, and communities. Microbes are the same, though it is called guilds or consortiums in the microbe world. We don't know yet who else is supposed to be in the reuteri guild or consortium. So I think the probiotic of the future, or the way we'll do it in the future is reuteri with maybe seven other species that are required, for reuteri to take up permanent residence. So you can take that capsule for maybe a week, and you'll have it for a lifetime. But so far, no one's worked out the details. 

[1:49:54.3] Ashley James: I was fascinated to learn that there's a type of bacteria that's very common in the gut that digests and eats candida. Candida is its food. Candida is needed in the body, but 90% less than everyone actually has it. It's food for these bacteria. It made me think; so, when your body is imbalanced, your little bit of candida, which is the food that's growing like grass for cows. It's like the grass growing in your body to feed this bacteria that's really healthy for us. And it made me think maybe that Lactobacillus reuteri is supposed to eat and digest something and it's missing also. Like there's this wonderful colony, like the microbe guild that that lives together that feeds each other and balances each other out and protects each other. 

And we've really messed ourselves up in the last generation. From my grandma to where we are now, we've just been messing up the entire human race by wiping out so much of our microbiome. I wish I had a time machine and could go a hundred years in the future and see what kind of advancement in understanding how we can restore the gut. But I can't wait for the day that the labs figure out what's the perfect balance for that microbe guild so that we could really get a leg up. But you're on the right track with teaching us how to ferment and bring it into our bodies within food in such a natural way. 

I really feel like you, out of all the doctors out there, have your finger on the pulse of restoring the gut and thus cascade effect of restoring the whole body. So thank you so much for everything you do. I love your work and I love your books. You're so easy to learn from. Like I told you many years ago, just discovering your work was so cathartic for me because finally, it's validation. I'm on the right track with removing these grains from my life and seeing such a positive result. That brings me to one of my last points, which is that some people say, “Well, I don't feel a difference when I removed wheat. So, therefore, I'm not allergic to it. I don't have to remove it.” And I think that that's a misnomer for a lot of people if you don't do an air quotes here, but like feel a difference. I don't think that you're supposed to feel how good an apple is for you when you eat an apple. I'm studying the nutritional aspects of how that pectin is helping you and all the things that are feeding in your gut. You don't feel it. It's not an emotion, just like stress is an emotion, but you could die from too much stress, right? So you don't necessarily feel the body. I am definitely noticing for me the feeling of oxytocin and feeling balancing for me, but some people don't feel anything. Like with changing their diet, they don't feel it at first. But can you give us some hope and some encouragement and say how long should someone sick and going grain-free, for example, or removing the gluten grains, or trying Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt. Is this something like, giving it a shot for three months, and then measure some noticeable outcomes? Can you give us some some hope because so many people will try something for a few weeks and say, “I didn't feel a difference.” So then they just stopped.

[1:53:46.5] Dr. William Davis: You're right. There's a mixture of perceived benefits, but there's also a lot of unperceived benefits that occur below the surface. So, for instance, my whole thinking on wheat and grains began to start when I took wheat and grains out of the diet because people had heart disease. By the way, this was born out of fifty-five clinical trials. This is not just some anecdote. What I saw on people with coronary disease is that the most common cause for coronary disease, heart attacks, angina, and sudden cardiac death, is an excess of small LDL particles and not LDL cholesterol, that crude indirect marker, but the actual lipoprotein particles themselves or small LDL particles. These are small particles are not recognized by the liver and so they persist in the bloodstream for 5 to 7 days compared to large LDL particles that lasts for 24 hours. Small LDL is much more prone to oxidation, much more prone to cause inflammation when it gets access into the wall of an artery. In other words, the small LDL is this little evil thing, perfectly crafted to cause heart disease. 

When you eat one bagel or slice of pizza, you've got oodles of small LDL for a week. There's no way for you to tell that. You have to do an NMR lipoproten analysis to find that out. So that's one example of the many non-perceived effects of consuming grains. When you stop eating wheat, grains and sugars, and small LDL drops from say, 2000 volume to 0, you won't be able to tell that. Likewise, if your blood sugar drops from a pre-diabetic range to the normal or ideal range, you can't tell that either. If you're exposed to the gliadin protein of wheat that increases intestinal permeability in everybody, not just celiac people, and thereby increases endotoxemia and raises blood sugar and blood pressure and plays with your moods, anxiety, depression. You might not be aware of that. You might not believe that that was due to the fact that once you stop eating grains, a lot of those effects go away. So, there's a lot of things that happen that people don't understand and don't recognize that it's being due to the grain consumption or lack of reuteri or whatever. So, I think it's a mistake to say, “I don't feel any different. Therefore it must not be doing good for me.” Because you'd have to do a more deep exploration to understand the full impact. 

[1:56:24.1] Ashley James: Got it. And so it's better to just take the science, take what you've shared and just go with it. Make those changes and give it time instead of judging it too quickly. Because you don't necessarily feel all those physiological changes. But eventually, down the line, people notice their body composition changing. People notice those inches going off. Sometimes you don't see pounds going off but you see inches go off. Sometimes it's just the body shifting and you just give it time. I feel so good off gluten and off those grains. I feel so good with Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt. For me it's fantastic. And I'm so happy that you formulated this Gut to Glow because there are people out there, like you said, who can't make the yogurt for whatever reason. Their life is super crazy and busy or they're traveling, and they just want to keep getting the benefits of it. 

So you've produced something that's going to help everyone, men and women alike. I think men like the effects of looking good too. But also you said, it helps joints there with the known ingredients that help joints. So overall, everything's good. I want to have you back a year from now or less when you've got these studies and these other things that you're working on down the road. Any other projects you can share with us? You're so busy. I was curious to know if you have ideas for the next book, but I know you're really focusing on this. So, is there anything else, any other projects that are in the pipeline?

[1:58:11.0] Dr. William Davis: I'm thinking about a number of things. One of the things that's changing my life is the fact that people like you and me, other podcasters, YouTubers, and bloggers, have all been blacklisted by major media. I believe it's because the big pharma pump so much money into media. That if you write a book on health and nutrition, you can't get on TV anymore. And so that hurts book sales, of course. I've even had publishers say to me, “You know, if we can't make money publishing books on health, maybe we won't publish books on health.” That's the impact that the pharmaceutical industry has had. So what does that mean for the future of books or other things? 

By the way, I'm so appreciative of what you're doing and other podcasters and bloggers. Because if we're all, not just me, blacklisted from major media, how do we get the word of truth out to the people? That's what you're doing. So that's why I support what you're doing, because we have to get this word out to people. So does that mean if you want to write a book on health, do you have to not use a title that suggests about it? I've been playing with that idea. It's still a lot of fun writing books and get your message out and it's a great way to learn something; to sit back in your chair and read about some new ideas because it's not going to come from the doctor. We all know that the last person to consult on health is the doctor. I'm talking about mainstream doctors. The naturopaths, chiropractors, and functional medicine doctors do get it, but the John Q mainstream doctor does not understand it. So how do we get that message out? So, I'm thinking about several books, but we got to somehow work around this off of blacklisting process. 

[1:59:57.7] Ashley James: Okay. I've got a title for you; Wink, Wink. This is definitely not a health book. Just make the title Wink, Wink, and have you winking in a lab coat with a stethoscope. That's the next book, and then I'll write your foreword or something. I love it. Well, I'm going to make sure I share my cashew yogurt with you which is super delicious.

[2:00:27.4] Dr. William Davis: I'll give proper credit.

[2:00:29.9] Ashley James: Oh, fantastic. I love it. It's a win-win for everyone. You know, I played around and did some batches with adding other strains that are in your book and it was fun doing that. So not just L. reuteri but also playing around with the other strains and I highly recommend that listeners go and check out everything that Dr. Davis has written and done in his website. Of course, the links to everything is going to be in the show notes with today's podcast of We're going to make sure that we link the Gut to Glow formula so that listeners can get it. And all the links there, including all the books is going to be there in the show notes and in the description of this episode, wherever you're listening from. If you're listening on your Apple podcast or Spotify, Rumble Library, or wherever you're listening from in all the alternative spaces that we're on as well, just look in the show notes in the podcast app and you'll find all the links. I'm going to make sure they're all there.

Thank you so much for coming on the show. It was so great chatting with you and I'm just such a huge fan of all your work. Thank you for being so approachable and so open and willing to educate us. The root word for doctors is “docere”, which means teacher. That surprises people because our experience is like the old school teacher that would slap you with a ruler; the very not approachable teacher. That's like going to the doctor. You are I think what they meant when they came up with the word “doctor”, the “docere” and the idea of teaching us health. And that's why my podcast is called Learn True Health. As doctors, you're here to teach us, achieve it, find it and create your health. So thank you so much for being such an advocate for us to gain our true health. I so appreciate what you do. I can't wait to have you back on the show.

[2:02:29.1] Dr. William Davis: Thank you, Ashley. Anytime. It's my pleasure.

[2:02:32.7] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today's episode with Dr. William Davis. He's amazing. I love him. If you want my Lactobacillus reuteri cashew yogurt, delicious recipe, please go to and you'll find it there. It's also in the show notes of today's podcast. You can also go to the Learn True Health Facebook group, and you'll see the recipe there, along with comments and conversations in the group with other listeners. You don't have to make it out of the oven cashews. You can make it out of other ingredients. And if you want to discuss that, you can jump into the larger Learn True Health Facebook group. And we can chat about other methods to make the Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt. Or if you just want to get the benefits, do it without having to make two yogurt.

Definitely check out Dr. William Davis', Lactobacillus reuteri supplement, which he calls Gut to Glow. You could go to and use coupon code LTH10 for 10% off your first order or 15% off your subscription with coupon code LTH15. You can book a session with me to chat about the amazing phototherapy patches if you want to increase your body's glutathione production, stem cells, balance your sex hormones, your stress hormones, your thyroid regrow joints, arthritis, lowering inflammation of bone density, increase bone density. People are seeing wear and tear on their body. There are studies showing that this increases bone density. People are getting out of osteopenia and out of osteoporosis, and increasing muscle mass and endurance. People are having an amazing experience. I am especially loving it. I'm loving the amount of energy. I feel like I'm a seven-year-old again. I've tapped into this never-ending deep well of energy. I've been enviously looking at kids for the last seven years wishing I had that abundant energy, and now I do. That's from the phototherapy patches. 

If you want to try that too, let's jump on a call together. I'd love to talk to you. Go to and up in the menu, you can find where it says Work with Ashley James. Sign up for a free phone call with me to discuss the phototherapy patches. You can also email me at Connect with me on Facebook, but it's best if we talked and you jump on a phone call with me. Book a session to chat about it so I can help you specifically pick out the right patches for you based on your health goals. 

Awesome. Well, thank you for listening and watch out for our next episode. Episode 500 is around the corner and soon will be filled with beautiful testimonials and stories of success from our listeners who have been impacted by the Learn True Health podcast. If you have a testimonial and you'd love for me to share with the listeners any kind of positive impact that my podcast or my guests have had a difference in your life, please send it to me. There's still time to submit your testimony, as you can submit an audio testimonial, a video testimonial. Just turn it into it audio or you can email me one and I'll read your testimony on. You can put it in the Facebook group. You can email it to me at and I'd love to hear from you.

Have yourselves a fantastic rest of your day, and I just want you to know I love you so much and I appreciate you so much, and I want you to feel your best. I want you to be as absolutely optimally healthy as you can be every day, building up, healthier and healthier and healthier. That's what I want for you, and for me too. So, we're all building healthier bodies. We're not aging, or we're not going downwards. We're going upwards. We are building ourselves up at any age. We have so much absolute potential at any age to build healthier bodies. And that's what I want for you, and we're doing it together. So thank you for sharing these podcast episodes with those you care about so we can help everyone we love through Learn True Health.

Get Connected with Dr. William Davis!







Books by Dr. William Davis


Super Gut


Wheat Belly

Feb 17, 2023

The Best Coherent Structured Water Device:

Use coupon code LTH at



To work with Ashley James and try the phototherapy, Go Here:

In the Menu, click Work with Ashley James and book your Free Phototherapy Discovery Session.


498: Rejuvenate Cells with Structured Water, Mario Brainović

Mario Brainovic, CEO of Analemma Water, is a leading expert on the astonishing science and impact of coherent water. He explains the overall benefits of why all living things should drink structured water.

Ashley James & Mario Brainović


  • Reversing cellular age through drinking structured water
  • Difference between regular tap water and structured, coherent water
  • Results of using Analemma Water
  • Using GlycanAge testing as an accurate assessment of your overall health and wellness
  • How to measure mitochondrial energy in the body
  • The correlation between the state of your microbiome and the state of your water


Hello true health seekers, and welcome to another exciting Learn True Health podcast episode. Today's finally the day I'm publishing the long-awaited structured water episode. I've been hinting about this episode in our Facebook group to our wonderful listener community and talked about it in a few episodes. I've been using this device since Thanksgiving with remarkable results. We get into that in the interview. But as I do with all these wonderful experts and companies I interview about holistic health devices and supplements, if there's something I want to try out and love, I want to share it and ensure I get a coupon code. So here it is, coupon code LTH as always. And you can buy yourself one of the structured water devices by going to water. That's water. Or you can look in the show notes of today's episode, and you'll see it right there in the description of this episode's show notes. Wherever you listen from, the link will be right there. So be sure to use the coupon code LTH to get your discount. 

I was shocked by the results that I got. This has been my favorite magic trick to play. It's a great parlor trick to play on your friends. Take the device, and use it for 1 minute on their glass of water. Pour two glasses of water so that they can drink the regular water first, and then they try the structured water that's only been treated for one minute with this device. It requires no batteries or electricity; you can travel with it. You have to be careful not to break it. But other than that, I've been traveling with it. I've been sharing it with my friends, and everyone is amazed. Make sure that you treat the water. For about a cup of water, you must use the device on the water for one minute. For me, I drink out of a mason jar, which is quite a bit of water that's close to 30 oz of water in here. I like to stir with the Analemma for a good 2 minutes. Just know that when you do buy one, the instructions say to use it for 30 seconds; don't do that. Maybe in America, we use huge glasses. This was initially designed in Europe, and I think everyone has 8 oz glasses there because all of us in America have 20 oz glasses or more, especially my listeners who are well hydrated and drinking out of 30 oz mason jars like myself, you need to use the device for about 2 minutes which is neat. As you stir the water with it, it changes the structure. All of the molecules line up in a way that becomes a coherent crystalline structure. Just watch as you're stirring it at a slow, nice pace, and in about 1 to 2 minutes, you will see the viscosity of the water change, which is the coolest thing, and then I know it's done. I just watched, and I could see the viscosity change. Then when you put it in your mouth, the water feels different. It tastes sweeter and feels different in your body. 

So I'm so excited for you to hear from one of the experts working with this company. And he also talks about the studies that they've published. They have crops and have huge yields just from using this water. Since this interview, I have done a little experiment where we've been feeding our plants this water. We do not get much sun up here in the Pacific Northwest, and are almost at the Canadian border. And here we are in the lowest amount of sunlight. My plants are going nuts. I have this big window where all my plants are, and they only get sun for a few hours because it's facing west, and there's an obstruction. So they only get about four hours of sunlight. Since I started Analemma water, they're growing. These small house plants are not supposed to be that large, but they have grown inches. So I've been watching them sprout up like crazy. It's been so cool to see that. 

And we talked today about how using structured water makes mitochondria function and makes the bacterial cultures in the soil and our body improve health. The cascade effect goes on and on. Ensure you use coupon code LTH because I want you to get a discount. But this device is affordable compared to all the other structured water devices. And this one maintains the structured water. So use it once, and the water is structured forever. Whereas other devices only temporarily structures water. It is really interesting. 

I know you'll love the science behind it, which we will dig into today. Please share this episode with all your friends who love to hydrate or who don't like to hydrate. Now they should because this makes water so delicious and changes its feel. It makes people want to drink more water. It's such a fun little tool to improve our health and the health of our pets and plants. They're coming up with systems for agriculture and noticing that when the farmers collect the seeds and reuse them, by the third generation of those plants, they're saying they need almost no pesticides and chemicals. The plants become so healthy that they require less and less of those things. Imagine how much we could impact the world if the whole planet did this. 

It's exciting what you can do for your health. The implications are exciting if we continue with this technology. So that's Use coupon code LTH, and come into the Learn True Health Facebook group so that we can chat about this as you use the device. I want you to know that if you don't notice a difference with it, it means you're not using it or stirring it long enough. I've talked to at least a dozen people, and when they use it for a good one to two minutes with their water, they notice the difference. So, that's the one troubleshooting thing I would say. If you already bought it, you've got to use it for at least one to two minutes in your big glass of water. In my case, it's a big jar of water, and I use it when cooking. I treat the water before making coffee or tea. Something so cool is that we noticed it changed the flavor. It made it more delicious. So there's something about it that's super neat. 

So, enjoy today's episode, come to the Facebook group, and let me know your thoughts. Let me know what your experience is with structured water. I can't wait to hear from you guys and wait for you to hear today's episode. 

[0:07:30.2] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I'm your host, Ashley James, and this is episode 498.

I am so excited about today's guest. We have on the show Mario Brainovic, the CEO of this fantastic technology that my husband and I have been using in our house for a month and a half now. It is our new favorite thing. My husband will only touch or drink water if this device has first touched the water. My husband is obsessed. He loves it so much. I do too. I got some of the water right here. I'm just so mindblown by what you've created. By the way, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for coming today, Mario. 

[0:08:22.0] Mario Brainovic: Thank you so much for having me, Ashley.

[0:08:25.9] Ashley James: Before we dive into you explaining what this is and the science and story behind it, I want to take a quick moment to share my story of being introduced to the Analemma. Your office reached out to me before Thanksgiving. I received an Analemma, and I was very skeptical. This concept of stirring something in my water for a minute, completely being transformed and restructured, and changing the magnetics of the structure on a molecular level all sounds too good to be true. I say in the show that I have a very open mind to try new things, but I'm also incredibly skeptical. So with my skepticism and open-mindedness, I said sure, why not. Let's try it.

Then a good friend of mine comes over, sees the box, and says, oh, you got one, too. I love mine. And I'm like, wait a second; I know people who have this? It turns out that I have friends who already have an Analemma, and they love it. They're using it in their water and seeing a big difference. I was like, oh, that's interesting. So I went and used it. When we first received it, I stirred water for a minute, took a sip, and I said, what is going on? No way. And so then I grabbed just regular filtered water, and I compared. I could not believe the mouth feel. The water completely feels different when you use the Analemma. It feels like all the molecules are lined up in your mouth. It just goes down smoother, and drinking water with no resistance is easier. It's the weirdest thing to say, but it feels silkier and easier to drink. It just goes down and has a sweetness, so it does change the water experience. 

We even took our Analemma to friends' houses when visiting them. It's been our new favorite health toy. Whenever we go for dinner or hang out with friends, we bring it and do this magic trick. Okay, give me two glasses of your water. We will stir this for one minute in one glass, and then you'll try to see which one you like better. Everyone loves the water and can't believe how different it feels. As I walked up the stairs today to get to the office for this interview, my husband said, “Make sure you tell them this is my favorite thing.” There's another thing he's been doing called phototherapy patches, but he goes, “This thing is amazing. Please tell them how much I love it.” Of course, I am going to tell him that. My husband is such a good sport doing all the health stuff I do. I've been introducing him to many things throughout the 15 years, constantly getting him to do healthy things. He is a good sport and dragged along with it. But now he will not let us drink water unless treated with the Analemma. It is so easy to do. It blows my mind. I fill my jars every morning and spend a few minutes stirring the water for the rest of the day. I'm standing there thinking, “How does this work?” I've seen the science and everything on your website, but I still need help understanding it. So I'm so excited to have you today.

The biggest thing I got excited about was the study that showed that drinking this water for three months reverses cellular age. So I can't wait to get into that. I noticed I had results when we started doing it right after Thanksgiving. Like everyone, the holidays are a bit stressful. This is our first holiday season without our father-in-law. My dad died fourteen years ago, right after Christmas, and this was the anniversary of his death. So there are just a lot of emotions going on around Thanksgiving. And during the pandemic, I had a child and lost her. So even though I did a lot of emotional work and healing, I had this low-grade constant sadness in my heart. I hadn't changed anything else at the time. Everything's been pretty much the same and with even higher stress because it's going into the holiday season. But three days into drinking the Analemma water, I did a check-in and realized that sadness had gone. It was replaced with low-grade joy and a sense of completion, happiness, and fulfillment. I can get upset and frustrated because I'm home-schooling a seven-year-old, and that's expected. But even when I am a little upset or frustrated and all these other emotions, I feel happiness beneath all that. 

Have you seen anything around your specific structured water affecting people emotionally? You also studied brain waves, so I want to get into that. Listeners can go to water to check it out and use coupon code LTH. By the way, thank you so much for giving our listeners a discount. I appreciate that. I'd love to understand how you came about discovering this. How does it work? 

[0:13:55.2] Mario Brainovic: Thank you for sharing your beautiful story. We are receiving so many stories from all over the place from people using it. Stories are remarkable, and hearing what this water does never gets old. To be honest, we all in Analemma feel that we are serving this water, not the other way around, when we realize its profound effect on all biological systems. We tested it on humans, animals, and plants; the results were always remarkable. We see that it is a blessing, and when you see it that way, you cannot own it. We are stewards of it and want to do everything in our power to get it to as many people as possible so that they can get the benefits. Not only that, we will go into all of the details. There are profound environmental effects of this water. We can catch up on that as well. I love how this water enriches whatever you expose it to. So I'm grateful to be part of this project, and I'm so happy when I hear the stories. All of the work that we are doing is beyond justified, so thank you, first of all, for sharing your story.

[0:15:22.9] Ashley James: Absolutely. I started this podcast because I suffered for so many years from health issues. Through natural medicine and good nutrition, I was able to reverse type 2 diabetes, chronic adrenal fatigue, chronic infections, infertility, and polycystic ovarian syndrome. And the doctor said you'll never reverse. This doctor said I would never not have the polycystic ovarian syndrome. I was told numerous times I'll always be on medications. Now I'm free from medicines and super healthy. I still have health goals, and I'm still working on myself, and I want to help end the suffering of so many people. So when I find something that is easy, affordable, and has profound effects, why not? I think we should all be drinking healthy water. 

I took chemistry in high school and loved it. I'm from Ontario, Canada, and at the time, we had Grade 13 in high school, which was the equivalent of a first-year university. I took OAC Chem, which was like first-year university chemistry. I remember understanding and learning about the magnetics of water and how the H2O molecules are very magnetic. And so, understanding that most people drink water through a bunch of 90-degree angle pipes, the molecules have become chaotic, right? So we're not meant to drink water that's been through the system it has been through. But even water straight from the ground isn't necessarily structured either. So I'd love for you to explain the difference between the regular tap water from the city and structured water.

[0:17:21.1] Mario Brainovic: Yeah, now we are getting into the whole magic of things. First, I would like to emphasize that most people aren't aware that 99% of our molecules are water. We are 70% water in mass but 99% in molecules. So that shows you immediately we are very clever H2O. That shows you there is something magical and extraordinarily important about water, and nobody talks about it. So as you mentioned, water at this point is everywhere, and we tested all kinds of water. It exists in the chaotic state of H2O. Molecules in water move chaotically. They crash into each other constantly. All of this happens at an atomic level, so nobody knows it. Two scientists, Dolf Zantinge and Dr. Eric Laarakker started working on it, and I joined the team a bit later. So we found a way to bring order back into that chaos.

I will explain the science of it. Since water is a broadband absorber, receiver, and energy transmitter, it will pick up the dominant frequency. So, however, colloquially speaking, you treat water, the vibration, the frequency, and the structure will form that particular structure. As you mentioned, water goes through a piping system, dramatically killing the water's vitality. So, we managed to create a dominant positive frequency in the water. This is what we call mother water. It takes one full year for us to create this special water and put it in a crystal vial. Crystal serves as a superconductor, but it's not there. So it creates a barrier between the mother water and the water you are swirling the Analemma through. But frequency-wise, it's like it's not there. Any H2O molecule that comes into close proximity to the mother water starts to mimic its exact structure. So then you have exactly the same water as the mother water inside the vial. Water enters this special liquid crystalline structure, and we call this full spectrum coherent state. So it's very different from the other works of several scientists who developed some form of structured water in various ways through a vortex, seeing through magnets, or using crystals. 

There are various forms of how you create a structure. But the main difference between Analemma Water and all these other structured water is its stability. With all the other structured devices we tested, water goes back into chaos within a couple of minutes in half a day with almost all of them. With just one treatment of Analemma, just one swirl in the glass of water, that water will stay in that very particular state virtually forever. So we have tested it for five consecutive years, and it always remains in a state of coherence. 

So that stability is where it's very special. This very particular structure has a profound effect on all biological systems. Now, I can jump into the remarkable studies we made. The fastest result you will have with this water is in brain waves. We did this double-blind study with identical and genetic twins because this is the golden standard. These two people are genetically identical, so we gave one twin regular water and Analemma Water to another. The doctor administering the test didn't know which one was which, and the twins didn't know which one was which, and we were observing the changes in the brainwaves. As soon as you sip this water, there is an almost instant change in your brain waves. The left and right hemispheres of the brain start to communicate much more efficiently, and there is an instant cooling effect on the brain waves, which is extraordinary to observe. We repeated the test a couple of weeks later and gave Analemma Water to the other twin to see what would happen. The results, again, were very distinctly the same. So your brain waves will change instantly as soon as you sip this water. So this is the first and the fastest effect or impact this water has on human biology, and then we can go into all of the studies that we did, the long-term effect of drinking water. It's really profound. 

Then we decided afterward to pick a test that would definitively prove that something biologically remarkable happens when people drink this water. So we were going about various tests, and we came upon GlycanAge. GlycanAge measures the biological age in contrast to chronological age. There are various other tests that you can do. But what I love about GlycanAge is that it gives you a pretty accurate assessment of your overall health and wellness. Why? Because through the state of glycans, you can see your immune system's state. Glycans regulate the activity of T cells. So T cells are the number one cells of our immune system. So whenever a pathogen like viruses, bacteria, or fungi invades our body, these cells are the ones who capture and destroy the pathogens.

So if your glycans are in good shape, you have a powerful immune system. The other thing about GlycanAge is that there are two kinds of glycans, pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory. This balance is crucial for overall health and wellness. Now everybody knows, and I know your audience is familiar with low-grade inflammation. It is the number one cause of any chronic disease we develop throughout life. If you experience changing glycans, that means your overall health is changing for the better. So we did the baseline test with everyone in this study. We measured their biological age, and I have just discussed the final score of all these. And then they just drank a liter and a half of Analemma Water per day without changing anything else in their world. They didn't change their exercise regime or diet, and we did another test after three months. In almost every single person in this study, there were between one and twelve years of biological age rejuvenation. Their whole system regenerated on a cellular level, which was remarkable. It clearly proved that when you drink this water, there are really powerful changes in your biology.

[0:25:44.4] Ashley James:  After only a few months?

[0:25:46.4] Mario Brainovic: Only three months.

[0:25:49.6] Ashley James: Many people will drink more than a liter and a half. I drink about 4 liters of water a day. 

[0:25:54.3] Mario Brainovic: And you can imagine what effect that would have on your biology.

[0:25:58.7] Ashley James: I feel it, and it's pretty amazing. My husband and I both feel it. So whenever our seven-year-old son asks if he can have some water, we hand him one, and he says, “Is this structured?”

[0:26:15.1] Mario Brainovic: I love what you mentioned. It's like, you cannot miss it. Once you take a swirl of Analemma through the water, you cannot miss the change that happens. Water enters this very special coherent state. And just like you eloquently explained, you cannot miss the change in the water. 

[0:26:34.9] Ashley James: You taste and feel it. A friend said, “I don't know if it tastes different, but why does it feel different in my mouth? Oh my gosh, this water is feeling different in my mouth. This is so weird.” You can exactly feel the change.

[0:26:54.6] Mario Brainovic: I can explain why. 

[0:26:55.1] Ashley James: Okay, good. Why? I thought it was maybe magnetics. But it feels like all the H2O molecules are lined up in a row instead of being chaotic. That's my explanation. 

[0:27:07.5] Mario Brainovic: Most definitely. You've explained it very well. But I would like to add that when you bring the water into a highly structured coherent state, the true power of water is unleashed. You can look at it like if you have a light bulb; it has five watts. It will give you some light. But if you have a 5-watt laser, it will drill a hole through your table. So laser is a coherent form of light. The true power of water is unleashed when you bring it to a coherent state. So our early studies were always on plants. There is this special method, a delicate technology that can capture light. Every living organism exudes light biophotons, and we have this device to capture every single biophoton. The more light you exude, the more vitality you have. 

In our early study, we had a big greenhouse in the Netherlands where we did many tests. We grew tomatoes that we watered with regular water and with Analemma Water. And we realized that tomatoes grown with Analemma Water exude 60% more light. They have 60% more vitality. If you eat that tomato, all that energy will end up in your cells. But then we didn't want to stop there. We wanted to see how that correlates with humans. So we did a double-blind, placebo-controlled study measuring the rise in ATP levels. We're talking about mitochondrial energy, or the energy in your cells. We used this method with luciferase. Luciferase is an enzyme that catalyzes light production in bioluminescent organisms. Due to its extraordinary sensitivity, we can measure the intercellular ATP level in animals and humans. And we did the baseline tests, and people again just drank a liter and a half of water a day without changing anything else in their world. After two months, we did another test, and there was a significant rise in ATP levels. So the entire mitochondrial energy in their body increased by over 20% just by drinking the water. 

So then, I can return to the studies that we did because there is a great correlation between all of our studies. We're very passionate about the quality of soil because this is a huge agricultural problem in the world today. The soil is almost completely destroyed everywhere, and they cannot revive it. They cannot bring it back to life. Then whatever you grow on that soil will not have the nutrients necessary. We took completely depleted, destroyed soil and watered one part of it with regular water, and one part of it was watered with Analemma Water. Nothing happened with the one we watered with regular water. Everything stayed the same. But there was a huge explosion in the biodiversity of the microbiome in the part we watered with Analemma Water. And so much so that the bacteria that exploded in the soil started to suck CO2 out of the atmosphere in the soil where it belongs. 

So the soil became fertile. You could grow any food on it again. This inspired us since the microbiome changed the soil. Let's see what's going to happen with humans. So we did a double-blind, placebo-controlled study where we measured the dysbiosis index of the microbiome. So dysbiosis index describes the degree of deviation within the microbiome, taking into account all the bacterial phyla and species and their Wayne factor. And we had an absolute improvement of 38% in the dysbiosis index of the microbiome just when people drank this water.

[0:32:02.0] Ashley James: Oh my gosh, this is blowing my mind.

[0:32:05.5] Mario Brainovic: In the last decade, there has been so much research in the connection between the state of your gut, your microbiome, with basically any area of your health — mental health, physical health. The state of your microbiome has a powerful effect on anywhere in your body. We proved that when you drink this water, the state of your microbiome improves significantly. 

[0:32:36.1] Ashley James: I interviewed Dr. Igor Smirnov in episode 161 several years ago. He's a Russian, and he has been doing studies for years on different structured water. Not yours, but structured water in general. What sparked his interest was that the people in Chernobyl who experienced radiation were sent to various hospitals. And one hospital, in particular, was up in the mountains, and an artesian well fed the hospital. And those people miraculously got way better than anyone from Chernobyl who went to another hospital. Russia was like, what's going on? Why is everyone getting better over here, but aren't getting better in every other hospital? And they finally figured out that their water was naturally structured in some way from the pressure coming from the earth. Of course, not everyone can access an artesian well up in the mountains. We need to figure out how to recreate that. That's what you've done in a very affordable way. I've seen these machines, and as you said, these machines not only keep the water structured for days and days. It's structured temporarily, and then it falls apart. These machines are worth $500 to $1,500. I've looked and seen it. But what piqued my interest was what Dr. Smirnoff said: they see antioxidants in structured water that were mopping up the radiation in these patients. I don't know if that was true, but it did something. Maybe it was because it was protecting the mitochondria. So I'd love to know, have you noticed, or have you had studies where you're seeing that structured Analemma Water has an antioxidant property?

[0:34:46.9] Mario Brainovic: I can tell you that the study of it is remarkable. Dolf Zantinge, one of Analemma's founders, was CEO of the largest Dutch telecom. So he's very familiar with the EMFs and the effects of radiation of EMFs on human biology. We did several tests with Analemma Water and 3G, 4G, and 5G radiation, and the results were really interesting. There are many effects, but I can speak of the one we thoroughly tested. So when you use your cell phone for two minutes, there is a profound chaotic effect on the state of your brain waves. We've tested and seen it every single time. But what we did was we gave regular water and Analemma water to some people after a couple of minutes of using the cell phone. Nothing happened with their brainwaves for the people who drank regular water. Their state stayed the same. Whatever happened, they stayed there. But as soon as people start drinking Analemma Water, as I mentioned, there is a cooling effect on the brain waves. The brain waves came down from the chaos into a coherent state.

[0:36:28.0] Ashley James: That was fascinating. When someone has this change in their brainwaves, what do they experience? 

[0:36:34.3] Mario Brainovic: In my experience, I can just share because many people wrote us, and we have a lot of testimonials from people. It's very personal. Every single person is unique, and they have their own unique response. So as you mentioned, you clearly shared your experience. We received so many various experiences from people. They all have their own path and experience with it, but every single time is extraordinarily positive. 

[0:37:14.5] Ashley James: Can you share some testimonials that stand out for you? 

[0:37:19.3] Mario Brainovic: There are a lot of them. We don't want to go into all the details because this has yet to be designed to treat and heal people. We were advised not to make health claims in that particular way. But I can tell you that many people had incredible physical, mental, and emotional results in various ways. When you drink this water, this water is in this very special coherent state. As I mentioned, 99% of our molecules are water. So we enter this very special coherent state. When your organs, tissues, bones, and mind where electromagnetic beams enter a state of coherence, effects will be experienced on any level. So it's just a matter of time. 

[0:38:21.9] Ashley James: Does it make water more conductive?

[0:38:24.2] Mario Brainovic: We had this really interesting experience. We developed this technology with one professor in Austria. So we asked him to create a device that would immediately show on the spot which water is which. During his research, he found this correlation between the sun and water. Water changes electromagnetically daily due to the sun's position towards the Earth. So water is an electromagnetic phenomenon; it changes. So we realized that the electromagnetic potential of water is anywhere between 150 and 300 millivolts. But when you swirl the Analemma through the water, that potential jumps up to 300 %. And that's very measurable. So, that's where you can see the difference. The difference is not just in taste, which ends our studies. We have done 15 studies up until now. So all of our studies confirmed that. But the whole energy about it is remarkable when you swirl this little stick through the water. It really changes dramatically.

[0:39:46.4] Ashley James: Why sell the Analemma device, which allows us to make as much water as possible? It's like teaching a man to fish instead of giving him a fish. You are giving us the tool that, for the rest of our lives, we can make all of our searches with water. It is very generous that you do this, and as I said, this is such an affordable device compared to all the other ones I've seen out in the market. So you guys are being very generous because you could have created your own Evian water, or an Analemma bottled water, from some source and structured it yourself because it maintains its structure. You could have sold it worldwide in bottles.

[0:40:27.6] Mario Brainovic: Just so you know, this is all intentional. So we are aware that we could put this five times the price and it will be sold exactly the same way. But we wanted to keep it affordable to almost everyone on the planet. Just like you mentioned, this is something that we are now exploring. We will bottle it, so if you are somewhere in the cafe and don't have your Analemma, you can order one and get it. But we wanted to make it affordable to people. 

Our mission statement is to make all bodies of water on this planet coherent. We have already developed technology that we can install in the wells of the biggest rivers. Because we know we've proven that the microbiome and the water would change, will enter this coherent state, and all the life down the stream would thrive. And not only that, but all of this water will enter the oceans, and then the oceans will become coherent. And then we would have a coherent planet. Just like our body becomes coherent, if all of the water on this planet, which is the earth's blood, becomes coherent, we are part of the earth. Even though it's not good for our business model, we don't care. The main thing is this water has the power to change the world for the better. So we're having these greenhouses issues and CO2, which we try to solve but cannot solve. But, as I mentioned, if we water the earth everywhere with this water, the soil's microbiome would change, and those bacteria start to suck CO2 out of the atmosphere.

[0:42:31.2] Ashley James: And into the soil, which will feed the plants, right? If you think about farming, we're having a massive global crisis because of the drought. But before the drought, we see that farming practices have contributed to the drought. They remove the topsoil, intended to keep the CO2 in the soil. It's supposed to be there to feed the plants. The decomposing matter creates CO2, which is supposed to be in the soil to feed the plants. So it's part of the fertilization cycle of plants. 

Because of the mass farming practices of the last hundred years, farmers scrape away the topsoil and turn the soil over, which we now know destroys the soil's microbiome and releases CO2, a fertilizer for the plant. It's supposed to be in there. And by turning over the soil, they're killing the microbiome. They're making a very artificial environment and then treating it chemically to force the plants to yield high. But because of all this, the water runs off and does not stay in the soil when it rains. And then when it gets hot, it is supposed to evaporate, creating more rain, right? So it's supposed to be that cycle, but it's runoff now. And so, then we have droughts globally. Then, we're cutting down forests to feed the cattle. Large forests, for example, help to make rain because it's how nature works. So with all that, we have removed topsoil, turned it over, and now we've affected how the earth makes rain, which has then caused drought.

This is just one contributing factor. But now, the farmers globally are having many issues, and we're not even touching the supply chain issues, diesel prices going up, and all those other issues that are compounded. But what we're looking at is the health of the soil needs to be re-established. Now this information is increasing, and farmers are saying, “Oh wait, I should do more biological farming. So, I don't turn and never move the topsoil.” So some farmers are trying to understand that is a better way to go. But right now, if they could feed the soil your coherent, structured water, that would immediately begin to revitalize the soil's microbiome. The healthy bacteria of the soil suck the CO2 back into the soil, feeding the good plants.

So it's all this beautiful dance. And I know you said we're part of Mother Nature. We came from the earth, right? The minerals of the earth are in us. We must remember that we drink water from the earth and we eat food from the earth. So the earth's health represents the health of our bodies. And I love that you're taking this globally. That was beautiful.

In 2004, I saw “What the Bleep Do We Know!?”. That's a great documentary. Everyone should watch it. They showed the studies with water that they did in Japan and how by simply

yelling at water or loving the water, or basically talking to the water or emitting an emotion at the water and then freezing it, they would see that the energy, the frequency of love, for example, would create these beautiful structures. And a frequency of hate would create these ugly mucky structures. But they did it repeatedly, and it would get the same result. 

My husband and I did it too. We got a bunch of ice cube trays, yelled at one, and loved the other. It was wild. We got that to see that little experiment in our freezer. But just the idea of simply expressing a vibration of emotion to water, that the water would hold on to it like a memory. It's like a hard drive for a computer; the water remembers.

[0:47:40.0] Mario Brainovic: It's incredibly like the computer, as you mentioned. Dr. Eric Laarakker, one of our founders, intends to prove that water is a bio-quantum computer. So, as I said, water is a broadband absorber, receiver, and energy transmitter. Whatever you send out to it, it will stay there. You mentioned the work of Japanese scientist Dr. Masaru Emoto. He was the pioneer that helped people understand that there is so much more to water than meets the eye. You mentioned your own kind of experiment. Do you know what he did that anybody can do? You take rice and put some water in it. He just expressed love to this jar with water and rice, and in the other one, he expressed anger or hatred. Just after a week, the one you express love to has this beautiful fermented smell, and it's completely intact. It has a beautiful smell, and you can actually eat it. But the other one where you said, I hate you, or you were angry at, started to decompose heavily with a bad smell. It's the same rice. The only thing that changed is our electromagnetic energy, which we focused on.

Dr. Masaru Emoto clearly explained the importance of kindness. As you mentioned, we are very clever H2O; when we are kind to each other, we send something, and that individual's water holds it. So whatever you send out stays there, which is profound. And there are many kinds of religions in the world. Like in Christianity, before you start to eat food, you say a prayer because that prayer profoundly affects the state of that food. And then we eat it. And then this food has a profound effect on our biology. 

I must mention one more study, which was an “Oh, my God” moment for us. In our early research, we were studying the effect of our water on seeds. So we took seeds, and we watered with regular water, and some seeds we watered with Analemma Water. Those seeds that we watered with regular water didn't exude any biophotons. They were just dead. There was nothing there. It would be just a flat line. But we started to observe this sinusoidal shape for the ones we watered with Analemma Water. So we began to see these peaks and valleys of biophoton emission. We were thinking, “What is this? What is going on there?” And we realized that it coincides with the tides. So we realized that this water connects you to the natural movement and rhythm of the Earth. So it moved with the tides. It opened our eyes that this connects you electromagnetically to something more significant. We always think like we're confined to this body. But when you drink Analemma Water, you get connected more profoundly.

[0:51:45.5] Ashley James: Talking about the prayer, that makes sense because, in prayer, you're bringing in gratitude and love. If you're being authentic with your prayer around the table or over your meal, you're exuding love and gratitude. And because your water on the table holds the memory of the frequency of the emotions, it can be influenced by the frequencies. Have you guys done a study where you've hated on water? Like, love was done with some water, hated on the other water, and then treated it with the Analemma. So after one minute of swirling the Analemma in the water, does that overwrite the hate?

[0:52:45.8] Mario Brainovic: We have yet to actually do the study because we have too much reverence towards water now. We don't want to treat it that way. But definitely, all of our research proved that water is going to react to the dominant frequency. That's why exposing water to the highest positive frequency is important. That's why prayer comes in. But we managed to create the mother water with an extraordinarily positive effect. As I mentioned, we try to push it into chaos in many ways but have yet to manage to. So we radiated it and did all kinds of things with it, but it remained stable. So that's where it's incredible.

I can tell you one more thing. It is actually progressive. What we did is that we watered tomatoes with Analemma Water. We took out seeds, replanted them, and we did this for three generations. After three generations, these tomatoes almost don't need any pesticides. They become so resilient. I always invite people to do the test by themselves. If you have Analemma already, or if you buy it, you have to buy two basil plants. I did this, and it's remarkable to observe. So anybody can be a little scientist. You water one basil plant with regular water and one with Analemma Water. After three weeks, you cut their water supply. What's going to happen after two days is the one watered with regular water is just going to shrivel down completely. And you can see the difference in the basil plant watered with Analemma Water. You will clearly see the resilience of the plant. So if you just put a couple of drops of Analemma Water into it, it will return to a hundred percent vitality. And the one you watered with regular water will have difficulty bouncing back.

We received so many emails when people used Analemma Water on plants. People tried to grow a plant in their apartments, and they changed or shifted spots and couldn't get plants to thrive. But when you use this water, you are assisting that process in a remarkable way. I can tell you one interesting thing. During the GlycanAge study, since we realized the correlation between water and the sun, we asked all the participants in the study to expose the Analemma to the sun every now and then. This lady has this small meter-by-meter or a bit larger kind of garden, a very short plant. And so, in the middle of it, she put her Analemma daily. After a month, she sends me a photo. It's like you drew a circle around the Analemma. All the plants grew an inch and a half taller than anywhere else. So it was tough to ignore if you knew what it meant. This is the effect it has on plants.

All of our studies clearly showed the great correlation between any biological system. So whatever we proved on plants worked exactly the same on humans. I have another amazing anecdote. For many years, we used this big greenhouse to test our water. So one Dutch farmer picked up the whole greenhouse and continued using the water. So he started to grow this particular kind of cucumber. And this kind of cucumber always gives fruit ten to twelve weeks within a year, and that's basically it. Now, he's at twenty-four weeks to grow. Usually, it gives yield, it gives fruits ten to twelve weeks, and then it cannot anymore. Then you have another cycle. So he doubled the cycle. 

Now, we are actually creating because we know that if we're going to change the world, we need to change the agricultural system and we need to change the food people eat. So you are definitely aware of this. But you know, spinach had 80% more nutrients fifteen years ago than now. So you have to eat five or six times more spinach just to have the same amount of nutrients you received from spinach ten to fifteen years ago. We really want to change this. So now we developed an agricultural system for Analemma Water and are investing a lot into studies. Farmers are only interested in two things: shelf life and yield. But we want to prove that if they use this water, they will have a higher yield and a longer shelf-life because the fruit's vitality will be higher and stronger. As a result, everybody will get healthier food, which is our goal. You know when you eat cucumbers, fruits, and veggies, you will get that vitality and nutrients. 

Just to come back again with this study that we did on soil, the microbiome change, and the mineral retainment. So you mentioned that all the minerals go out. When you water the soil with Analemma water, all the minerals stay in the soil. And then the plants can pick up those minerals and nutrients, and it all ends up in the fruit. So one of the powerful avenues we are exploring and investing a lot in now is agricultural studies. We have irrefutable proof that when you use this water in agriculture, you're not going to just exponentially increase the nutritional value of the fruit and the energy of the fruit and veggies. But you're also going to increase yield and shelf-life.

[0:59:43.9] Ashley James: Absolutely fascinating. I had a guest on my show who's an organic farmer in California. I will definitely hook you guys up. He would be totally interested in joining your studies. He has acres and acres of fruit trees and all kinds of amazing organic stuff that he does in Northern California, so I'll definitely be hooking you guys up. I want to make sure we stay in touch. I want to know about your studies around farming. I think we need to change something. 

I saw a video the other day. It was speaking to both sides of the political spectrum. Globally, people want to “stop global warming” or “stop climate change.” They are really concerned about this. And then, there are other people who just want their nine-to-five job. I just need to survive. I just need a paycheck. I just need to get through. I just need to protect my family and earn money. I'll do whatever I need to do to help my family. I'll push the button that makes more black smoke go into the mixer pollution and the world, as long as I can get a paycheck to feed my family. And so, we have these two groups of people clashing, and the speaker was talking to them. But he was talking a little bit more to the people who want to end pollution. I see both sides. I'm standing in the middle going, I want to end pollution not because of anything political. I want to end pollution because it's horrible for our health. It's horrible for our children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and the health of all the amazing animals. 

We are supposed to be stewards of this land. If you take the Book of Genesis seriously, we are supposed to be stewards. We are supposed to be here to protect this land. We were gifted this land. The Book of Genesis is in many religions, not just Christianity. But if you think about it, we are stewards. We're either going to destroy this world and thus destroy ourselves. But at the same time, I completely understand those people who just need to pay the bills or feed their children. Because currently, millions of children are dying of starvation and malnutrition. And it is horrible. So this man says to these two groups of people, “We are not going to solve it by fighting. We will solve it by creating new technologies and advancements that will solve these problems in a way that solves both people's problems.” We need to make technologies affordable for the person who's starving of malnutrition, whose daughter and son are starving of malnutrition. We need technologies that will heal the water, the soil, the land, the sky, and our food supply and make it affordable so that the millions of people who are sick and suffering or malnourished will have access to this. And then when we do that, these technologies that we create will heal the planet and help to heal malnutrition. 

So he makes this big 3000 ft view. It's like, we need to stop fighting and start advancing technologies that heal the planet. And what you have is the technology that will help heal the planet because it will make it so that agriculture doesn't have to pump thousands of tons of chemicals into the water supply. If you say within three generations of this tomato plant, they don't need pesticides. If it heals the soil, making the microbiome of the soil come back to life, so now we don't need to pump a bunch of fake chemicals for fertilizer or pesticides. We can have these plants and soil within a few growing seasons just by structuring the water. We don't have to add any more chemicals. 

[1:04:17.7] Mario Brainovic: I agree with you. And not only that, as I mentioned, if all the rivers and bodies of water become coherent, everything is part of one ecosystem. What happens there doesn't happen over here. No, whatever happens everywhere happens to every single one of us. That's why I love what you just mentioned. We are people, and we are fighting. We are in a chaotic state like the H2O molecules are now. But if we learn from the water, when we join hands like H2O molecules joined hands, the true power of water is being unleashed. So when we unite in one mission, we can heal the world in one generation. It will not take more than that.

[1:05:11.5] Ashley James: I love your vision and the work you're doing. I am obsessed with the Analemma. I feel so grateful that you guys reached out to me. And I've just had so many confirmations that this was the right thing, seeing that friends already had Analemma and were using it. My husband and I, our son, and everyone we've introduced it to have noticed the difference. 

I introduced Analemma to one of my engineer friends, who is like this amazing Tesla-genius level. He said, “This makes water wetter. This makes the water more absorbed into my cells. So there's something about the charge. Can you speak about that? Does it make water wetter or better absorbed into cells and the body?

[1:06:20.3] Mario Brainovic: As mentioned, the true power of water is being unleashed. So when you drink this water, you bring much more energy through your cells. And we did this double-blind, placebo-controlled ATP level study, where we measured the rise in cellular energy. So your entire body's cellular energy increases by over 20% within two months.

So there is a phenomenon happening in your body. More energy is absorbed. Not only that, people had various experiences. You will start drinking less if you don't need as much water. If you need more, you're going to start drinking more. Every body has its own kind of rhythm. But you find coherence within yourself. This is what happens. And I also mentioned this seed study where you become electromagnetically part of this larger ecosystem. We are one planet. We are one being. And when we start to live that way, everything is included, and nothing is excluded. And then there isn't going to be any conflict, and we will be able to solve any problem this planet has.

[1:07:49.1] Ashley James: I love it. Awesome. I know there must be something proprietary about this, but can you tell us or teach us about the mother water you described as being in the device too? Can you explain how you created it or came about discovering it? Again, I don't want you to share it. I'm not asking for proprietary information. 

[1:08:13.2] Mario Brainovic: I can't share too much. I can say that we are not using vortexes, magnets, electricity, or crystals in that particular way. We have a very particular system, as I mentioned. It takes one full year to get it. It's all mechanical processes, and there are several phases in which we go about it. And when you go through the last phase, the water enters into this very highly structured, coherent state that it doesn't come out of it.

[1:08:49.3] Ashley James: Love it. Reading about the device and how to use it, it says that it will maintain that charge, and definitely, this is something you could pass on to generation after generation.

[1:09:04.3] Mario Brainovic: Yes, you have to take care of it very much because it is fragile. So if you drop it, it will break. So you really have to take care of it. We will be coming out with the whole house Analemma, so we have already developed it. It will come out very soon. So you can install it in the piping system of your house, and all of the water you have in your house will be coherent. Because we have incredible results and people are returning to us, we will study bathing with it. When you bathe, just stay in the water for 20 minutes, and they have phenomenal results. So if you fill the bathtub with it and lie in it for 20 minutes, the results are extraordinary. So we will do a study on it to have science behind it, and it's not just anecdotal. 

But that's one of the ways; you don't even have to use a whole house system which will be coming out very soon. You can jump on the website, and you can jump on the pre-order system because we are still not out with it. But then you can install it in the piping system of your house, and all the water is coherent. And I'm telling you, you will see results when you shower with it or bathe in it. 

[1:10:29.2] Ashley James: You can cook and garden with it if you have a hose. 

[1:10:31.3] Mario Brainovic: Everything.

[1:10:34.0] Ashley James: I have a friend, and we brought it over to her house and showed her how to use it. She got excited, and she bought one immediately. And then she goes, “Okay, so how do we make it so it comes out of all my pipes?” I also have a friend who was already lined up to buy it. I contacted your office, and they told me that you were in the process of coming over the whole house system. And she is probably your first customer to buy it. She's all lined up and ready to go. I could see the benefits of it. 

I understand that lawyers have told you not to say things that sound like you're treating anything. I respect that, and I don't want you guys to get into trouble for saying that people get healed from the water for anything specific. But could you share any anecdotal stories about bathing in the water?

[1:11:35.1] Mario Brainovic: We have to keep with this water is not intended to heal or treat. But I can tell you we received so many results in many ways. Some are extraordinarily fast, and some take a bit of time. But the results are awesome.

As I mentioned, our studies are done on healthy people. So we always have to do studies that prove that even when you're healthy, your health gets even better. With the studies we already did, we proved biological age, and we proved the ATP levels where your body's entire energy increases. We proved the state of your brain waves and the microbiome. We will go into other studies because we already know the inflammation and everything. So we are going to do many studies. But as I mentioned, we don't want to go into any healing effects of this water. We don't want to claim, and we don't want to say anything. This is just water, as God intended. Let's just go that way.

[1:12:47.3] Ashley James: You're not claiming it's a medical device, which is important because you don't want those restrictions put on. 

[1:12:55.5] Mario Brainovic: No, this just changes the state of water and profoundly affects biology. It's in the area of general health and wellness, and that's basically where we are sticking to. So we are not going to claim anything else. If you start using the water, you will have your own personal experience with it. If we mention the whole tub experience, you'll already know since the skin is the body's largest organ. And then, since this water gets absorbed intensely and much more powerfully, all this energy ends up in your cells. And not only that; there were people who actually carried Analemmo, even though we told them not to do it because it can break, they carried it around their necks and had incredible results. 

As I mentioned, when this lady put her Analemma in the small garden, you see its effect. Because a lot of people asked us to, we are going to start creating pendants. So you have it in a crystal, drop-shaped small container. It will have a mother water inside, and you have it around your neck. It's near your heart area, and you know the heart pumps blood all over. We will also do some studies to prove that if you wear this, it will have a special effect on your entire biology. But as I mentioned, we always stick to general health and wellness. So we've proved that you will have awesome results when healthy people wear it. 

[1:14:53.7] Ashley James: I love it. So speaking of plants, I don't know how to describe plants, but in my kitchen, the window jets outwards, and there is a ledge with two shelves to put plants. So it's like this little solarium that jets outright by the sink. So I can look out, I can see the sky. It allows me to see more and have all my plants. We live in a townhouse that doesn't get any sunlight at all, except for this one window. And so, all my plants are huddled there, and then we have a little patio courtyard with all my plants out there that can withstand more extreme temperatures. Although we live north of Seattle, it doesn't get that extreme. But that's where we also place the Analemma, right above the sink, right by my plants. I also have been feeding my plants Analemma Water. And since doing that, one of my plants doubled in size. I don't know what it's called, but it's a cute little plant that has been an inch and a half tall forever. And then now it's huge. I thought Analemma was helping a bit. It could be because it's springtime. I don't know; it's not even springtime yet. It's January. So it's getting the least sunlight and has doubled in size in the last month and a half. So, that's interesting. I'm just trying to think about how my plants have been reacting since I've kept the Analemma there and kept feeding them the water. 

My mother-in-law had a houseplant that was just limp, yellow, and almost dead. She would throw it out, and I said, give it to me because I like reviving plants. I don't have a big green thumb. Most time of the time, I kill them. But I just want to see if I can revive it. And I fed it with Analemma Water and put it outside in the sunlight. So within a few hours of feeding it the water, the leaves poofed back up. 

[1:17.4] Mario Brainovic: Yes, that's the effect. Analemma has a powerful impact. I love what you did with it. People worldwide send emails with pictures of what Analemma did for their plants. 

[1:17:19.3] Ashley James: I wonder about pets too, like people with fish tanks with plants in them. I think aquariums would want to use it, and also dogs and cats. 

[1:17:33.1] Mario Brainovic: We will now do an extensive study on animals. We already know that the results are there. We tested so many times. But we're doing the proper study to document all the effects. And we will also create a water feeder for dogs and cats so owners can buy and pour the water in. Animals will get all the benefits. So the biological age of the animals is the number one thing. So we already know that there is a profound effect on biological age.

[1:18:12.5] Ashley James: So your pets will be with you longer and won't be as geriatric. 

[1:18:21.9] Mario Brainovic: Exactly. It's the overall health and wellness of the animals and their lifespan. 

[1:18:26.9] Ashley James: I love it. Thank you so much for coming to the show. I want to ensure we touched on all the important information you came here to share. Is there anything else that you want to make sure you share today?  

[1:18:39.9] Mario Brainovic: Jump on our newsletter because we are constantly doing new studies. That's the way you can follow our progress. I would love to come to your show again when we do more studies to share because I love to share with people like you who are dedicated to bringing light to the world. 

You could choose to do anything with your life and your time. And you decided to bring health, healing, and the best of the world to people. I admire that. Thank you so much for doing it because you are becoming a beacon of light. And we need to make a network on the planet. Then we are actually contributing, exactly like you were doing. So, thank you for that. 

[1:19:38.5] Ashley James: Absolutely. Thank you. I'm going to own that beacon of light for the world. You know, I suffered for so many years, and then I was able to reverse that, and I wanted to end the suffering. I want to help and spread this information. That's why we call it Learn True Health because we learn that this whole level of health is out there that's not being taught. This is true health. We have access to true health, but we have to almost unbrainwash ourselves from the mainstream media, Hollywood, all the junk out there, all the processed food junk out there, and the culture that says eat a pint of ice cream. Go drink a bottle of wine if you're stressed out, or your boyfriend broke up with you. If you feel bad, go to the gym and exercise for twelve hours because you don't feel good about your body. It's just like, where is this love for your body? Where's this balance? Where's the true healing where you can move your body in a way that brings you joy, and not because you're not moving your body because you feel guilt or shame, right? How about love? Why not do things just because you love your body? There are just so many nutrients out there that will heal disease. 

One of my mentors did a $25 million federally funded study in the 60s and 70s, where he discovered the cause and cure for nine hundred diseases that cross species lines. He discovered the cause of cystic fibrosis and muscular dystrophy and then was blacklisted from all research institutions that get money from big pharma. That's when he became a naturopathic physician, helping and healing people with food supplements and nutrition. He helped me see that we've been fed many lies since we were infants, even starting with just formula. 

Now, I love that there are formulas for most mothers who can't nurse. I couldn't nurse. But we were told as mothers, when formula came out, that it was more nutritious than mother's milk. And now we know that is wrong because mother's milk is a probiotic, is the child's immune system, and is so protective of the child. I'm glad the formula exists for those who need it. But to convince women that it was better than nature, that same tactic has been used against us for everything: from food, from how we view our body to how we view health; that chemical man-made thing is better than nature over and over again. And so true health and Learning True Health is about uncovering the information you share today that will allow us to reclaim our health, transform our temples, transform our bodies as God intended, and be truly healthy. 

So thank you so much for doing the work that you're doing. I love that it has the potential to transform the planet and transform our lives. Blessings upon you. I am so excited about your work, and I can't wait to have you back on the show, especially when you have more to share about the studies you're doing about bathing in this coherent, structured water and agricultural studies. I'd love to have you back for that as well. I'll make sure I hook you up with my farmer friend, who was a guest on the show. I know he'll be interested in this. 

It has been such a pleasure, Mario. So let's stay in touch, and thank you again for coming on the show and sharing with us today. 

[1:23:33.7] Mario Brainovic: Thank you so much for having me. Let's stay in touch. I'm going to send you everything that we're doing. We're constantly doing a lot. So I will send you all of the studies that we are doing and thank you for being the beacon of light that you are and for sharing the relevant information exactly. I love everything that you just mentioned. So we need to return to the natural ways of health and not get diluted by all the information coming out. We need to return to the natural sources of health, and water is one of the important ones. Thank you for having me. 

[1:24:21.8] Ashley James: Wasn't that an amazing, mind-blowing episode? I am so excited for you guys to try the Analemma and see how you like it. They have now launched the ability to sign up for the home system pre-order on their website. I can't wait to get my home system because I want to bathe in this water. I want to know what this feels like. It feels so good drinking this water. I have taken the Analemma, held it to my heart, and held it close to my body for a few minutes. I'm very in tune with energy, and I can feel it. I feel so good. It's almost euphoric. I really feel good when I'm holding it to my body. It's structuring all the water inside me. 

My husband juices daily, usually celery juice with lemon or lime and ginger. And then sometimes we will add beet, carrot, or cabbage. But most of it is celery. If you've ever had celery juice, it is kind of gross. It's not my favorite of all the juices. After juicing, he stirred it for about two minutes. It was a big jar of juice. He stirred it for about two minutes with the Analemma and then said, okay, try this. And, oh my gosh, it changed the flavor of the juice. It tastes amazing. It's not because of stirring it vigorously but because of the device. So we've done this several times with our juice, and it's so delicious. There's something about it. Our body loves it. I cannot wait to bathe in the structured water and see the results there as well, shower in it, take that hose, and use it in the garden. 

So the system they're selling for $1,800 gives us a 10% discount. The coupon code is LTH. So, you could use that home system, and your entire house, garden, and everything would have access to it. So you don't have to stir your water anymore. Now everything coming out of every faucet in your house is coherent, crystalline structured water. It's really exciting. I can't wait to hear the effects from listeners, especially the bathing, the idea of getting all the skin benefits, and how that will help people. And then, of course, the garden. If we double our yields and the results we get in the garden, it will really make it worth gardening. It's just amazing to get delicious fruits and vegetables every summer. 

So thank you so much for listening. Thank you so much for sharing this episode so we can help as many people as possible to learn true health. Go to and use coupon code LTH and get the Analemma for yourself so you can structure your own water you cook with and drink. Also, sign up for that pre-order for your whole house unit. After you try the Analemma, you'll say it really works. I can't wait to experience it for my entire house, and it's also a sneaky way to get into the rest of your family, right? You don't have to do anything. You just hook it up to your house, and then that's it. Anytime we can add something that improves our health without having to think or do something, it is so worth it. Awesome! 

Thank you so much for listening, and stay tuned for the next episode, which will be with Dr. William Davis. It was amazing. I just finished that interview today and can't wait to publish it. That will be episode 500, and that's the testimonial episode. So, please get your testimonials in. You can record them on your phone and shoot me an MP3. I'd love two to five minutes of you sharing what changes and improvements have been in your life because of the podcast and the guests. I'd love to hear your testimonials. It might not seem like a big deal to you, but for the listeners who are suffering, it would mean so much to us to hear stories of hope and inspiration and to hear stories where people have improved their health. So if my podcast has made a difference in your life, please share that with me. You can either write me an email. I would love to hear an actual MP3 of you talking. Don't worry about sounding perfect or being perfect. It's not about being perfect. It's just about being yourself, and everyone will love it because hearing the results of how you've improved your health can cascade and can ripple out and help many other people. We want to help as many people as possible. So please email me at with your testimonial so I can include that in that episode. Thank you so much, and have yourself a fantastic rest of your day.


Get Connected with Mario Brainović






Feb 12, 2023

Check out Chef Mark Reinfeld's upcoming courses and online culinary trainings:

Phototherapy Patches:

To work with Ashley James and try the phototherapy, Go Here:
In the Menu, click Work with Ashley James

The Best Coherent Structured Water Device:

Use coupon code LTH at


Online Health Coach Training Program:


I love IIN; the Institute for Integrative Nutrition is where I took my Health Coach Training and where you can transform your life and become an Integrative Health Coach!

The whole program is online and designed for busy people, so anyone can do it!


Free 7-Day Holistic Doctor Course by Ashley James:


Join the Learn True Health FB group:


Ozone Machine:

Listen to episode 484 for more info on why and how to use ozonated water made in your home for energy and mitochondrial function:


High-Quality NAD Brain Supplement:

Use coupon code LTH at


Listen to episode 460 about the benefits of high-quality NAD on cellular function, energy production, and mitochondrial health:



Sunlighten Sauna - the sauna Ashley uses, loves, and recommends:

Be sure to ask for the listener special!


Listen to episode 245 to learn from the founder of Sunlighten Sauna as to why this sauna is the best tool for your health journey:


The World's Most Effective Magnesium Soak:

Use coupon code LTH at


Listen to episode 294 to hear Kristen Bowen share her story of recovery and discovering the world's most absorbable form of magnesium:


Ashley's Favorite Spirulina and Chlorella:

Use coupon code LTH at


497: Healing Deliciously: How To Nourish Your Life Through Food

In this episode, Chef Mark Reinfeld teaches us how to make plant-based healing food to prevent cancer and other diseases. He will also discuss the benefits of using food as medicine, which can benefit our overall well-being.

Ashley James & Mark Reinfeld


  • Holistic Doctors Make Healing Delicious
  • Nourish Your Life Through Food & Living Beyond Cancer
  • How to take healing foods and make them so that your kids want to eat
  • Benefits of increasing nutrient-dense foods in your diet
  • How to make plant-based foods taste good
  • Marinating a Portabello mushroom with balsamic
  • How the Doctor and the Chef works


Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of Learn True Health Podcast. 

We have such a fun episode today with Chef Mark Reinfeld. He is a whole food plant-based chef, and he married an amazing woman who is a naturopathic physician. Together, they marry holistic medicine using food as medicine and all the science behind that, with delicious culinary recipes. How amazing is it that we can nourish our bodies and use food as medicine to heal every cell in our body and bathe every cell in nutrients? 

I have been doing this podcast for seven years. March 1st will be the 7th anniversary. But way back in the day, I interviewed an amazing doctor on his deathbed, and basically, the doctor said, your liver is in absolute failure. Go home to finish your will and say goodbye to your loved ones. Your life is over. And he sat there on his hospital bed, ready to pack up his stuff to go home and die, and he thought to himself, wait for a second, I understand how the liver works. I know how the body works. And he just got this vision. There are over 37 trillion individual cells in your body, and here he is about to die. He's thinking, every cell in my body is like a house. My body is like a county. Your body is like Manhattan with all these individual homes; each home is a cell. There are certain things every single cell needs. It needs to bring in the groceries and take out the garbage. And something's gone wrong on a cellular level for my body. My body is not bringing in the groceries and taking out the trash.

That very simple idea is what he went home with. And he goes, how can I help my body? And what did he have to lose? He was dying anyway. Then he said, okay, I'm going to do everything I can to support my liver to decrease inflammation because inflammation is like when there's a big hurricane, and now there's a flood around your house. The groceries can't get in, and the garbage can't get out. That's what inflammation is. It's a flood around your cells, not letting the good stuff in and the bad stuff out. And there's an order to things. So he got rid of the flood between every house in his body, and then he started to bring in the groceries and take out the garbage. He supported all three systems in his body, including the different detox pathways. And he lived for many years, went on to write many books to all the doctors' amazement, and to helping other people heal. And I love that image, which has always stuck with me. 

This is what our guest today does. He helps you make mind-blowing delicious food that helps the body bring the groceries in and take the garbage out. Anytime you can make it healthy, easy, delicious, and fun for you and the whole family. That's a big win. So you don't have to be vegan or want to be vegan to listen to this episode. Our chef today teaches using a whole food plant-based diet. Everyone can benefit from increasing nutrient-dense foods in their diet. Doctors show, and it has been proven in many studies, that increasing antioxidant and polyphenol-rich foods in your life can prevent cancer, decrease many diseases, and improve outcomes. Plus, it brings so much flavor with all the spices and herbs in healing the body.

Mark is here today, and he's going to share with us some amazing recipes and ways of thinking about eating and adjusting your life so you can get in even more nutrition, more nutrient-dense foods, get those groceries in the cells, and take the garbage bags out of the cells. Mark is about to launch two courses. He's also working with other holistic doctors; one is called Living Beyond Cancer. We talked a bit about that; the other one is called Nourish Your Life, and both sound delicious. 

You can go to to see more information about Mark's upcoming courses. They are starting very soon, so if you're interested, you'll want to jump right in and check them out. That's And of course, the links to everything will be shown in today's podcast at as well as whatever podcast directory you're listening to us from. You'll be able to go into the show notes of the description in this episode, and you should be able to find those links. 

I have had such an amazing time since I published the last episode. On the previous episode if you hadn't listened to it, I said, hey listeners, if you want a call with me, you want to talk about the phototherapy patches, then sign up for a free conversation. I have been slammed from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. talking to people, and it's been amazing. So many of the listeners are trying the phototherapy patches, and now the listeners are reporting back to me who bought them because they got on them and we are getting some incredible results. There are some testimonials about getting thyroids to come back online. There's a very easy protocol for detoxing the thyroid and then turning the thyroid back on with the stem cell patch. In talking to some other practitioners and looking at the testimonials, I'm seeing that women in as little as three weeks are needing to go back to their doctors, get tested, and needing to be put on lower medication. And in some cases, completely taken off their thyroid meds in as little as three weeks. Now, any improvement from something that supports the body's ability to stimulate, the body's ability to heal, is amazing. The glutathione patch increases glutathione by 300% in 24 hours. The stem cell patch boosts stem cells in the body, turning on thousands of gene expressions. We are seeing some tremendous results. 

I've got these people reversing osteoporosis and osteopenia. People are gaining muscle. People are healing concussions, like chronic concussion post-concussion syndrome. They're seeing that their brain is coming back online. Brain fog is going away. The stuff is returning back to normal. I have seen great things around anxiety and sleep. For me, my energy is through the roof. And now I'm leaving just a bucket of sweat on the gym floor because I'm pushing myself so much harder because I have the energy for it. I have this abundant amount of energy that feels just like childhood. This is the kind of energy that I've been wanting. Have you ever just sat around the saddle and looked at kids or grandkids and go, where do they get the energy from? And then remembering when you had abundant energy like, oh I wish I felt that way. Well now, I feel that way, so I love it. And if you want to try it, I'd love to help you. I'm just in awe of the results we're getting, and I'm having so much fun helping the listeners. We've had some amazing conversations. I've connected with some beautiful people who are like friends for life now. 

So if you would like to chat, go to, and click “Work with Ashley James” on the top. The first option is the free photo therapy session where we'll have a conversation. It says it's 15 minutes, but most of these phone calls have been longer because of all the questions people have, and I am totally fine with that. I've been adding a little time in between the calls just in case they go over. So bring your questions to me. I'd love to chat with you. And if you're shy or you just don't have time to chat, because my schedule is being booked up pretty fast, and you want to talk sooner, you can always email me at I'd love to chat and help you. You could also message me on Facebook. You can come to Learn True Health Facebook group at to find us. Come join us and talk to me. I'd love to hear from you. 

And get on those phototherapy patches. There's a money-back guarantee. For me, I love things that are no risk. And I figured out the way you can order these packages to get the best benefit. It saves you $70. I'd love to help you make sure that you order the right patches for the right protocols, and also save the most money because I'm all about saving money. I have purchased over a hundred different holistic things in the last ten years, and I love experimenting. And you know, it's the spaghetti test. Most things are pretty amazing, and in the things that aren't, I want to get my money back. So I love that this company stands behind its guarantee, which is awesome. Thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about. Together, we are helping people to end needless suffering; so that holistic medicine can bring them health and vitality. Sometimes it just takes a little shift in the right direction, and the body is going to take over and start running with it, and I want everyone to have true health. 

That's what we're doing here today. So take what Chef Mark says, as a sign to try out new vegetables, try out new flavors, and try out new things. Look up certain foods, spices, and herbs that nourish and heal the body, and see how you can play around with them. He's got some amazing books, and we talked about recipes. If you want to learn how to conquer your kitchen and own it, you'll definitely want to take some of Mark's classes. You can do that by going to 

I promised in the last episode that this episode would be about structured water. I apologize, but stuff got turned around. People made requests, and I'm publishing this episode. So you're just going to have to wait one more week, and then I will publish the water episode. The structure of our episode will blow your mind. It's awesome. So watch out; you'll want to listen to the next episode. And without further ado, enjoy today's episode. 

[0:11:19.7] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I'm your host, Ashley James. This is episode 497. 

I am so excited about today's guest. We have with us an amazing vegan infusion chef, Mark Reinfeld. It's so good to have you on the show. Our good friend, who's been in the holistic health space for many years, introduced us. And what I love is Mark has such a talent for taking plants and making them amazing and so delicious. He teaches how to take healing foods and make them, so your kids want to eat them; they taste so good. What I also love is that Mark not only has a partner for life in your wife but because she's a naturopathic physician, you guys partnered together in business. And that gives us such an incredible compliment because there are so many doctors out there, and I've read lots of those healthy cookbooks for the doctors trying to come up with the recipes, and it's like something horrible. Their information is sound, but they tell you to eat plain oatmeal or whatever. It's just so gross. Whereas you take your amazing culinary skills and then couple them with your wife's wonderful information on using food as medicine. And together, you combine that so that people can heal their bodies while still enjoying the food on their plates. 

It was so funny because yesterday, my son was eating something; I can't remember what it was, but he goes, why is everything healthy for me taste bad? That's just such a funny thing. He was parroting what we often say, like, drink this medicine or aloe juice. And then he paused, and he goes, it doesn't taste bad. I like it. But he chooses to eat raw vegetables. I cannot cook him a vegetable. If I steam him some broccoli, he looks and goes, what did you do to my broccoli? He just wants to eat plain raw food. I can't even use these tools to make things taste good. 

But we have Mark here who has all these skills, and I want to hear your ideas so that all of us in the kitchen can spice something up and add something to our dishes tonight. So I'm not saying everyone has to be a vegan, but everyone can benefit from adding more nutritious foods. And you're here to teach us how to spice it up, so welcome to the show. 

[0:14:09.2] Mark Reinfeld: Thank you so much for having me, Ashley, I'm excited to be here. 

[0:14:13.2] Ashley James: And I hope that after today, I've learned some tricks that I can take to the kitchen, and my son will never say again, why is my healthy food always have to taste like this? He knows the buttons to push on our kids. It's so funny how family does that. And then he sits and eats it all anyway, so I know he likes it. But I want to make something taste amazing, and I know you can help us. 

And what I also love is what's coming up, and I want to make sure listeners know about it. You are launching two courses with your wife on February 15th and 16th. One is called Living Beyond Cancer. So we'll get you to talk more about that because nutritional oncology is coming into this and setting your life up in the kitchen to maximize the healing for someone facing cancer and recovery. And then you also have Nourish Your Life, which is soon being launched, and just taking these principles of using everything you put in your mouth as your healing, but also doing it in a way that's just so delicious. 

You've been a chef at restaurants, and you have won awards. My friend raves about you. So I'm very excited to have you on the show today. So before we jump in and learn some tricks in the kitchen from you and about your wonderful programs that are coming up, what should we know about the life of Mark, this vegan chef? What should we know about you to be oohed and aahed? 

[0:15:57.3] Mark Reinfeld: Well, that's a great question. Plant-based cuisine has been my passion for many years, to show people how to make plant-based foods taste delicious. So, a lot of times, we could learn about how important it is to include more plants in our diet and not know how to go about it, or sometimes the food just doesn't come out that good. For me, if the food doesn't taste good, no matter how much intellectually we might know how important it is, I don't think you can make those long-lasting changes. So for me, it's one of my missions to show people that everyone has the capability within themselves to create food that tastes good and they enjoy. And so I've been doing that for decades. As you said, I've worn many hats, from running a restaurant to writing several cookbooks that we can talk about to running the kitchen at major vegetarian festivals. So, I've been around the block for over 25 years in this field. I love sharing what I have picked up along the way with others. 

[0:17:15.7] Ashley James: I love it. Didn't you run a restaurant in Hawaii?

[0:17:22.7] Mark Reinfeld: We did. I went to Hawaii for a two-week vacation, and we wound up

staying there for eight years. So it's one of those longest recorded two-week vacations in history, and a group of people turned an internet cafe into a vegan cafe. And I have had several years of consulting and menu and recipe development experience. So when I landed, it was the perfect storm, and we opened the Blossoming Lotus Restaurant on Kauai shortly after I arrived through our mutual friend, who was also involved in the restaurant. 

[0:18:00.6] Ashley James: Since you're so good at menu creation, I was hoping you could create for us a Learn True Health podcast menu that we can make in our kitchen for people who might be afraid of cooking vegetables, afraid of bland food, and maybe even have some picky eaters. So what is super healthy but delicious that we could whip up for beginners?

[0:18:27.9] Mark Reinfeld: For our listeners right now?

[0:18:31.5] Ashley James: Yes, just something at the top of your head. Please think about the first thing that comes to mind that's easy to make but delicious. 

[0:18:38.8] Mark Reinfeld: Pestos are the first things that come to my mind and are one of my favorite things to make. They're really easy to make. There are a lot of fresh herbs, and you can use garlic and green onion. I like spicing it up with some chili peppers or crushed red pepper. And those could be over either a simple roasted vegetable dish or with noodles. So we'll talk more about my go-to meals, which I call a monk bowl. This is also through our friends who shared that with me many years ago, using a combination of a green and a protein. You could whip out these simple meals. And if you have this lovely pesto sauce, it's a winner.

[0:19:25.9] Ashley James: So, I am oil-free and gluten-free. And what I like to do when I make pesto; I learned this from one of my friends because she has a gardener husband, who often brings or harvests too much arugula, if you can imagine too much organic homegrown arugula. But there it was. They could get quite spicy. And so he's harvested these pounds and pounds of arugula. So she took arugula and some of the nuts you put on this thing. What are they called?

[0:20:08.6] Mark Reinfeld: Pine nuts.

[0:20:09.9] Ashley James: Pine nuts, thank you. She only did a few pine nuts. She did a lot of arugulas, some raw garlic, a few liquid aminos, nutritional yeast, and then some pine nuts. But not a lot of pine nuts. She blended it like crazy, put it in jars, and kept it for so long that it fermented. It was delicious, and it lasted for a while in the fridge. But we would take that, scoop it, and slap it on our bowls. So that's my favorite pesto. But see how it's so easy. You can do pasta with basil, but you can also do it with other herbs. You can play around with it. But, as you said, play up the spiciness, and that's fun. 

[0:20:56.2] Mark Reinfeld: You could also do an oil-free pasta. I like to put some avocado in there too. That gives it some of that oil. And it's one of the ways that I encourage people to get creative and break out of the recipe trap by viewing recipes as templates or the underlying formula. With the pesto like you mentioned, you could replace the basil with arugula, or you could also use parsley or cilantro. So there are tons of ways to make pesto.

[0:21:28.0] Ashley James: I sometimes hit that wall where I'm just burnt out. I have a great selection of things in the kitchen, but I get stuck in that trap where I repeatedly cook the same few meals. What is a great unique recipe, maybe from one of your books? We can talk about your books. What's a great recipe that shakes it up and gets people out of their food routine where they got burnt out?

[0:22:02.4] Mark Reinfeld: That is a great question, too. Depending on the type of dish, I like getting creative by using a seed and a nut crust on dishes. You could do an encrusted portobello mushroom. I like doing it with tofu cutlets, where you could use things like macadamia nuts or hemp seeds to make these flavorful mixtures that could then be added to give that texture of a crunch to different vegetables and tofu as well. So the super firm tofu is my go-to for that. 

[0:22:41.7] Ashley James: I love it, and I love that idea of a portobello because I like marinating portobellos with balsamic and then roasting them in the oven with other vegetables. They've got a flavor that a Portobello will absorb. This was way before I became plant-based. A vegetarian friend once told me she ate a portobello mushroom at some event. It was like a vegan wedding. She goes, that portobello was marinated like it was steak. She said it was so delicious. And she talked to the chef, and they did marinate it as if it were steak. So they chopped up some onion, garlic, and all these herbs in a balsamic and wine and had them all soaking in there. I don't know for how long, but as long as you would marinate a mushroom. Then they roasted them or grilled them, and it was just mouthwatering.

My husband, a meat eater, just woke up about 5 or 6 years ago and said I would never eat meat again. It's just that something switched his brain, and I would have lost that bet. If someone had told me when I met my husband that he'd one day not eat meat because that's all he ate and he hated vegetables, he just switched like 100% overnight, and his personality went from 100% meat. He will tell a joke about vegans all suddenly becoming one. And so I had to learn on the fly because I cook all the food in the house. I had to learn how to cook this way. On day three, I served him something, and he said this tasted so good. He goes, vegetables taste so good. If you had told me that this would taste as good, I would have quit meat years ago. It has worked for him. In the show, I don't like pushing any diet dogma. I believe in using food as medicine. If you can find healing by introducing more nutrients into your diet, that's great. And so we look to power couples, like you and your wife, where you're combining medicine and culinary skills to help enrich our health through making delicious food. So I've put you on the spot long enough.

[0:25:01.6] Mark Reinfeld: That's good, and I'm reflecting on it also. One of my really big tips is to create global spice blends or to utilize global spice blends, which is a big part of vegan fusion cuisine, which is my cooking style. And so, it could be as simple as purchasing the Caucasian mix, Ethiopian mix, or Moroccan mix. There are a lot of pre-made spice blends, and I love sharing how to make global spice blends that open the door to a whole world of cuisine for people. So if you're in a culinary rot, getting familiar with some of these spice blends, you could turn simple stews and soups into this whole array of world cuisine. So that's another one of the ways to break out of a routine.

[0:25:54.0] Ashley James: I have never actually gotten into Ethiopian food, and everyone kept telling me to try it. So I bought some Ethiopian spice blend and put it on plain potatoes from the instapot. I cut up some potatoes, steamed them, sprinkled them, and was blown away. I've never had these flavors this way, and it's interesting how the spices overlap with India. Because of the spice trade they were creating, there's that overlap. It wasn't curry. But there's a bit of overlap with some of the same spices they used in Indian food. But I loved it. I love that idea. In America, we are so used to doing more Italian or BBQ. But then, jumping over to two different cultures and trying their herbs, you could cook the same food, like potatoes, add those herbs, and bring it up to a whole new level. Or sometimes, eat steamed vegetables, then sprinkle some herbs on them. It doesn't have to be super complicated. Sometimes I'm just in a rush, and I throw a bunch of vegetables in and steam them, and then I can choose whatever spice blend to sprinkle on top, which changes the whole experience. 

[0:27:16.3] Mark Reinfeld: Yup, it's one of my big tips. 

[0:27:19.2] Ashley James: So, as you and your wife have worked together, can you tell us how that has worked in terms of helping people reclaim their health? How does the dynamic of a naturopathic physician and a chef bringing their skills together work?

[0:27:40.7] Mark Reinfeld: We formed our business called The Doctor and The Chef, which makes sense given she's a doctor, and I'm a chef. It's like pairing plant-based cuisine with natural remedies and plant-based nutrition, and it's like a return to the origins of medicine. As you said, food is medicine. You touched on it earlier by saying a doctor alone can tell you what to eat and maybe why to eat it. But combining that with the chef, who has decades of experience, can create the flavors people enjoy, making it sustainable. That's what we love doing, as we like taking people from wherever they're at from the beginning. So in our course, we start with me pointing to the kitchen. That's where the kitchen is. And then we get to the kitchen and the knife; this is the sharp end of the knife. So this is where you hold the knife. So we start with background zero and then guide people to make these changes stick. So that's what it's all about for us. Food is a core part of what can bring us health, mental clarity, and energy. And so, utilizing the principles of plant-based nutrition and making it taste good is the absolute winning combo.

[0:29:14.3] Ashley James: Has your wife ever been into plant-based nutrition? She's a doctor, so she's got to look at the science behind it, right? So tell us a bit about how she decided as a doctor that this is the best way to help people heal. 

[0:29:29.4] Mark Reinfeld: She has a unique journey. She went to a naturopathic medical school in Portland, and they are not so much into plant-based nutrition there. In her studies and reading, she realized the importance of plant-based foods and the phytonutrient and creating a healthy microbiome. And there are also other aspects of why people eat more plant-based. And so, it's the combination of her nutritional knowledge, understanding, and other beliefs surrounding preserving the environment. So when we met, she studied for years to get her doctorate and then realized I needed to learn how to cook. I need to know how to make the food, and that's what my calling has been. That's how she came to it. And then realize the importance of showing people the need to reclaim our health. And a big part of that comes from learning how to prepare our food. It's wonderful if you have access to prepared food in your community or good restaurants that you can order from. But nothing compares to the kind of love and attention you could put into creating your own meals, and you could decide how much salt to put in. So, things like that help control your health.

[0:31:10.5] Ashley James: You're making a good point that most people eat takeout or go to restaurants. I have a form that all my clients fill out when they start working with me. It asks what percentage of their meals are home-cooked. I very rarely ever see where it says 100%. Most people are between zero home-cooked meals, and there are a few people who say I eat 100% take out, then there are some people who go; even though I eat at home, I'm eating one hundred percent packaged pre-made foods. I have to open a can to eat or microwave something from the freezer. And then some people say, okay, about 75%. So it's rare that I even get someone saying 90%. Then usually, when I start talking to them, they usually realize that even though they wrote down 90%, it's more like 50% of their meals are eaten out, like every morning it's Starbucks and then breakfast sandwich, and every lunch is Subway sandwich. So, that kind of thing, like wait, I'm only eating seven meals at home a day which is my dinner, and then half of that I'm bringing home takeout. 

It really adds up, and I think we have a blind spot. Like when we stopped looking at our bank account. Have you ever done this in your life at any point? There are a lot of people who are responsible for their bank accounts. But have you at any point, maybe when you were a teenager or in your twenties, don't look? And if I don't look, there's money in there, and we don't get in touch with the numbers. So when we go unconscious of certain areas of our life, like going unconscious with our finances or going unconscious with our eating, that's when drama happens, right? Like you've got drama from bills or drama from health because we are eating more and more processed food even though we may not admit it to ourselves. 

And with the problem with processed food, especially eating at restaurants, you can attest to this as a chef and someone who's run restaurants. The restaurant owners are not bad, but they don't think about your health. Like, I've got to make sure I select the highest quality oil, and I have to make sure I pay the most for this organic produce that's locally grown and the most nutritious oil. They're thinking about the cheapest oil possible, especially because prices have doubled for restaurants and the cheapest GMO pesticide-filled foods, and then they put oil in everything. You get rice from a Mexican restaurant, and it is covered in that very cheap oil, and it's very unhealthy, and we know now it causes cancer, right? This is where I had to have a little come-to-Jesus talk with myself last year. You don't see the chain of custody even when you're ordering out and think you're making good choices. You don't know the quality of this food if it's GMO or not, or if it's organic, or talking to be organic if the restaurant doesn't say it's organic. And then, on top of that, it's covered in these low-grade, low-quality oils. So anything that isn't you cooking from scratch, you don't know the chain of custody, and the quality is just not there. That's filled with pesticides, and we don't know.

[0:34:50.7] Mark Reinfeld: Agreed. 

[0:34:51.8] Ashley James: It comes back to, we need to arm ourselves with really quick, simple, delicious healing recipes so that it is almost as easy as ordering takeout. It's like a door dash. It seems more complicated than just dashing into the kitchen and throwing something together this delicious. We need that. But when we start to feel better, we understand why it's so important. Then committing to 15 minutes in the kitchen every day, or 20 minutes in the kitchen every day, then that's like, okay, now I can be on board. We got to start shifting over to increasing more home-cooked meals. So I love that it's what you're doing because I've had doctors tell me this: I can't come home with you and get you to do these changes yourself. I could tell you what to do based on your lab results, based on the science of the studies, but I'll see you in six months, and good luck. But you're taking the patients, and you're like, alright, here's a chopping block, and here's an onion. Let's get going. 

[0:36:08.3] Mark Reinfeld: Definitely, yeah. We have two kids, so quick and easy is my mantra in the kitchen. I want to get the meal done in 20 minutes, and as you know, the books are called The 30-minute Vegan, and there are four books in the series. So for years, that's been a priority. And never more than now, with two kids and a pretty busy lifestyle, it's all about minimizing the dishes and maximizing the flavor.

[0:36:39.3] Ashley James: Many people think the word vegan means healthy, and it isn't. There are a lot of unhealthy vegan foods. I talked to many clients who said, ” Oh, I was vegan, or I was vegetarian in the past, ” and it made me worse. Way back when I was a teenager, I tried to be a vegetarian. The word vegan didn't even exist in the 90s. As far as I was concerned, it was vegetarian. I tried to be a vegetarian a few times, and each time within a month, I'd gain weight. I was feeling horrible. And I thought I was making the right choice because all I was doing was eating fast food without meat. So I was eating pizza. And I knew that dairy was not good for me, but I was like, pizza is vegetarian, and that's healthy. This is coming from a sixteen-year-old who wants to try vegetarianism. And I tried to get it at nineteen and twenty. But every time, I got more and more unhealthy. So then, that means eating meat is healthy. But I ate way more processed food because I lacked culinary skills, so I switched over.

Many people think vegan isn't healthy, and it doesn't mean you're healthy. So what you're doing is helping us learn how to include super nutrient-dense foods into our lives in a way that will be incredibly healing for us. I'm going to put you on the spot again. I'll prepare myself to take a deep breath. Since you have two kids, what recipes do you have that are kid full proof? What are some excellent, go-to recipes for anyone with a picky eater or kids?

[0:38:42.0] Mark Reinfeld: I'll share that. I want to comment on the going vegetarian thing. A lot of times, that is the case when people say they went vegan or plant-based, and it didn't work for them, and on further inquiry, they became pastatarian, and they were eating a ton of pasta, and Oreos or vegan, for instance. So that's an excellent point. And as far as kids, one of our sons will eat anything literally. Like he'll eat fistfuls of cooked spinach, our other son will contemplate a grain of rice from six different angles before he eats it. So I put him in the picky eater category. And for us, it's trying to discover what works for him. It's like a balance of the mental health side of it, to not wanting to put pressure on them or have the dinner be stressful. He happens to love the way I cook tofu. So I do a simple marinade with tamari and a little oil. You can leave the oil out and roast it at 375 for about 20 minutes; he loves eating that. The vegetable that he does like is steamed broccoli. It's just discovering that he does like his hummus sandwiches. Like your son, he likes raw vegetables. He's comfortable eating half a dozen cherry tomatoes. So as parents, we're just trying to nurture the foods that he does want to eat and do our best to get the good foods in. He likes avocados too. So we're fortunate in that there are some healthy foods that he does want to eat. But you probably know the hiding trick, also. So if your kid doesn't like avocado, and if he likes peanut butter and jelly, you could get a thin layer of avocado under the peanut butter. There are ways to sneak the food in, and that's our strategy. I wish I had more to share.

[0:40:58.7] Ashley James: No, that's great. I like it. I have snuck some things. My son is almost eight and is open compared to other children. But I've made some fun things. He's allergic to avocados now, which is sad because he loved them when he was younger. But who knew that somebody could develop an allergy to avocado? I used to make avocado chocolate pudding, and you can also do the same with yams. You know those yams that are nice and orange, right? And I would bake them till they're done being baked. And then, take the skin off and throw it into the food processor with some plant-based milk and some date syrup or stevia maple syrup. The maple syrup is my favorite because it gives a little smoky flavor or the date syrup. You don't have to put a lot because the potatoes are already sweet. You don't have to put in a lot at all. You could try it without, and then just put organic cacao powder and blend that. And you do not need to put in a lot of plant-based milk at all. I blended that like crazy, and then I would serve him bowls of this for dinner. And he's like, hahaha, I get chocolate for dinner, and I'm like, hahaha, he's eating an entire sweet potato, the entire yam. But he likes it as it is anyway. But it's so much fun. If you want to blend some gentle greens like spinach, it is really easy because it's such a gentle flavor to mask in there. 

I used to make “ice cream” in the summertime, where I'll take frozen fruits and a little bit of coconut milk from the can so it's nice and thick. I'll blend some greens with the banana and the blueberries well, making this wonderful, rich sorbet. That's, of course, with the vitamix except it's green. That's how I do it with spinach, kale, or whatever. But I can't do it on kale because it has a distinct flavor. But I get lots of greens in there. And then I'm like, look, it's mint ice cream. Yeah, it's fruity, and he eats it. It's a great way to sneak the vegetables in as well. He always likes it, but if sometimes I overdo the vegetables, he looks at me like, this is more green than usual, and he now knows. He knows I'm getting more vegetables in him. But he will readily eat a bowl of raw vegetables. He'll attack the kale on the way home or sometimes while we're still in the grocery cart. He'll sit in the grocery cart and start eating the kale before we have even paid for them. We're going to be paying for them. It's by the bush, not the pound, so it's okay. But he'll attack the raw leaves, so I feel blessed. But he is also a picky eater. Roasting vegetables is your friend because it can get super delicious, easy, and quick. So that's a lot of fun. 

Now, you talked about microbiomes. Your wife is interested in helping people build their health from the ground up, knowing that gut health is the most important thing. Do you have any recipes she encourages her patients to use to build a strong microbiome?

[0:44:39.4] Mark Reinfeld: Her main suggestion is variety. So we do an exercise to see how many different foods you can eat in a week. And that, from her perspective, is one of the best ways to create a healthy microbiome.

[0:45:03.3] Ashley James: Love it. Is that a variety of cooked and raw? How did she go about bringing that up? 

[0:45:09.6] Mark Reinfeld: It could be cooked and raw, and it ties into the question that you also mentioned about the kids doing superfood smoothies, and our kids love that too as a great way to get nutrients and a variety of ingredients in. So we put some of the superfoods like hemp seeds and chia seeds. So we do maca powder and other greens to get both varieties in starting our day. So that's the other one of my recommendations, along with the spice blends, for how people could get started using those superfood smoothies.

[0:46:00.7] Ashley James: Love it. Yeah, you can ramp up the smoothies. I've had Green Smoothie Girl, Robyn Openshaw, on the show before, and I've been on her show. She was sick. It was in her early twenties. Since she had a child that failed to thrive, she remembered what her grandmother had done. This is like, did they even invent blenders back then with her grandmother exactly doing concentrated drinks with vegetables? This was before the word smoothie was even created. And she remembered hearing the story about what her grandmother was doing, and it helped her. So intuitively, she went to the kitchen, threw vegetables and fruits into a blender, blended it, and just started drinking it. Her child, a young toddler, saw her drinking this and wanted it. And then she's like, oh, I don't know. So she tried not to give it to the kid to see what happened. And the kid's like, no, I want this. And she's like, okay, like reverse psychology on the toddler. And the toddler loved it. And so she gave it daily to her toddler, and the toddler went from failing to thriving fully. And she got her health back. 

All her children and the whole family grew up having these green smoothies. But the variety of what you put in it is essential, like just rotating everything. She raised a bunch of kids, and the first thing she did before she cooked dinner was chop up a ton of different vegetables, make a big vegetable platter, and just put it on the table. And I love this idea, especially for teenagers. It's like when you're hungry when you come home from school or work. Imagine if there was just this beautiful vegetable platter, with some other dips already made for you, and you could sit there and snack. Even though some of her kids ended up rejecting healthy stuff, wanting fries instead, and being picky eaters, they all would snack on and graze on all the vegetables. So by the time she was finished cooking, they had all gotten a bunch of vegetables in them. 

So, I tried this with our son, and it works. I tried this with my husband too. So I would chop up a bunch of carrots and all the kinds of raw stuff and put it in containers and a timer on the go, and I'm like, grab your carrots. 

[0:48:36.9] Mark Reinfeld: That's a wonderful idea. That's great. 

[0:48:38.9] Ashley James: Grab your carrots and celery sticks. It's just great because sometimes we'll be going out to run errands, which turns into an entire day out, especially when I go grocery shopping. I'm hungry and tired and don't want to sit and cook. I want food now. The worst habit to get into is running your errands and then using that as an excuse to eat takeout, especially if you've gone through all the trouble to buy all this healthy stuff for yourself. So always have freshly cut vegetables put away and prepared for you, and then grab them on the go, especially just apple slices sometimes. We will snack on them in the car and between our errands, and then we'll feel really good and be energized. And I'll likely want to cook a nice, big meal when we get home from all the errands or running around. So just these little tiny habits such as taking a few minutes can save you a ton of money because eating out is expensive.

[0:49:42.7] Mark Reinfeld: Grocery shopping when you're hungry is off. My wife can always tell when I will pick up all these random items that I normally wouldn't, because I was hungry when I was shopping. So that's a good tip.

[0:49:58.5] Ashley James: We're like hunter-gatherers, right? So we're just hunter-gathering in the grocery store. And of course, if you're hungry, that part of your body is like I'm just going to gather more. Whatever it is, I'm just going to gather more of it. My wallet has definitely felt bad, so you had to eat before you go grocery shopping. That's a good one. So you guys have been teaching people for years how to transform their habits in their kitchen to heal their bodies. Now you got these courses coming out, and I want to touch on both of them, but Living Beyond Cancer is near and dear to my heart. My mom died of cancer. One of my best friends died of cancer. I've seen so many people, and I also know people who have survived. Not to be so grand, but I've had several friends who beat cancer. But I've seen the amount of suffering that people go through and how important food can play a role in their healing. So tell us about your course that's coming up. What led you guys to want to pair with an oncologist to create this course? 

[0:51:09.2] Mark Reinfeld: It's a deep topic that is not to enter lightly. My wife lost her brother to cancer, and I've lost family members to cancer. Dr. Robert Ellis is a board-certified medical oncologist and integrative medicine specialist. He's a third-generation oncologist. His grandmother was an herbalist who specialized in it. And so he's been in practice for 30 years. The course is focused on remission and survivorship. So it's really geared towards maximizing and enhancing life when you're in remission and during survivorship. He actually took a course of mine several years ago in Portland, and he recently retired. We created a course together for continuing medical education. He's part of the Oregon Society of Physicians, Osteopaths, and Surgeons. We did a CME course together, where he would lecture on plant-based cuisine for half the day, and then we would take the doctors and nurses into the kitchen. I would show them these simple tools that I share on how to make the food taste good. So that's how he reached out after he retired, and wanted to work together again. 

Ashley and I developed this nourish program, and so we thought to combine forces to create this program, Living Beyond Cancer. Basically, it uses all the recommendations from the American Society of Clinical Oncology in the National Institute of Health, and also the recommended lifestyle modifications of MD Anderson on survivorship. A lot of it relies on proper nutrition. So the course focuses on the first pillar of plant-based nutrition which is what Ashley and I specialize in, and Dr. Ellis has had a lot of success bringing in the other pillars, which are mindfulness and exercise. He likes to say that the way to maximize survivorship is going from the couch to the kitchen to learn how to cook. The couch to the cushion to create some form of mindfulness and stress reduction practice, and then the couch to 5K where you build up, to where you could walk up to 5K. So we're really excited and honored to be working with Dr. Ellis, and it is a matter that's near and dear to our hearts.

[0:54:19.1] Ashley James: That's brilliant. So listeners, you definitely got to share Living Beyond Cancer with all your friends and family who are battling cancer or who are on the other side of it and now rebuilding their bodies after battling cancer. It's such a juggernaut. I have had many interviews with holistic health professionals, including oncologists who kind of gone rogue. I've had at least one oncologist who had his license taken away because he was too busy helping people cure themselves and not radiating them. So you always want to find the doctors who are being mavericks in their field while getting results because the status quo is not good. The survival rates are not acceptable. I want 100% success and the body has an amazing ability to heal itself, and we've seen that. There are outstanding results you can get, but you have to go outside the conventional system to get them. Even just outside of North America or I should say Canada and America because in Mexico, there are a lot more choices there, but out in Europe they use treatments in their hospitals that science has proven to work and oncologists are not legally allowed to use them here. So why would a country not let doctors use therapies that are not drug-based, are cheap to administer, and have incredible results that do not harm the patients? And yet only allow them to do surgery, radiation, and drug-based therapies that have horrible side effects. And speaking with an oncologist, she said that chemotherapy has a 2% chance of giving you a different kind of cancer, like leukemia, for example. If you want any kind of chemotherapy, and I'm sure it's different between each one, but just across the board, that's two out of a hundred people. At first, it doesn't sound like a lot, but it actually is a lot. Because if there is a 2% chance that there's a bullet in the gun that you're holding to your head, you're not pulling the trigger. I don't care if it sounds like a little, but two percent is a lot. And yet there are natural treatments that are incredibly effective, that have no negative side effects like causing other cancers, and they are illegal to use or administer for the oncologist to even give out here in the United States. So it is a for-profit industry. We're being censored to the point of not being given all the information in the mainstream. That's why I do what I do to spread this information. But hospitals in Europe are doing treatments that are not being allowed to be done here, and they're doing them successfully. It just breaks my heart to think of how many grandmas, moms, dads, and brothers are suffering, because they go to the oncologist and the well-meaning oncologist who wants to help are limited in what they can offer you because of the way the system is setup. They are limited in what they can offer you. 

So here we have, putting the power back in the hands of the people. You're doing Living Beyond Cancer. But, of course, that is giving them the tools to slowly build their life back and get walking and heal themselves, decreasing stress and increasing nutrients from their food. So this is good. 

I saw it over and over again when one of my friends battled cancer. It's a long story, but she battled it for a long time holistically, and she ran out of money, got too tired and tried chemo and radiation, and died almost immediately from that. But she lived for quite a while doing it. She lived with it for a long time. And then the radiation just puts holes through her body. I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy. But she noticed that on the months that she was stressed out, all her numbers would get worse and her tumor would hurt, and it would grow. Then in the months that she really focused on eating healthy and exercising, just like walking in the woods, and decreasing stress, all her numbers would get better because she got blood work every month. Her tumor would shrink. The inflammation around her tumor would go down. Her pain would go away. It was just remarkable. One stress that would happen, and it was, boom! Everything would be just like losing a fraction of all the good stuff. So, stress is such a huge role and so is your nutrition. It plays such a huge role. So I love that you addressed that in your course. 

[0:59:40.7] Mark Reinfeld: He is like, you have your personal mission, and I have mine. Dr. Ellis has devoted his life to helping people navigate this landscape. He is a really amazing individual. Every time I talk to him, I'm inspired, specifically by this survivorship. And looking at the recommendations from major health institutions like MD Anderson, this fits with the recommended lifestyle modifications. So it's not like a fringe type of thing. These are things that major organizations recommend. And we're just really honored to be able to work with him to bring some of this information out.

[1:00:33.1] Ashley James: The major holistic alternative therapy treatment centers are out there. I'd love to have him on the show. I'd love to pick his brain. Definitely set that up; for sure, it's so cool.

[1:00:50.2] Mark Reinfeld: Yes, definitely. He'll light you on fire. He's very inspiring.

[1:00:55.2] Ashley James: Nice! We'll do that. So those who are listening and want to take a course, Living Beyond Cancer, and work with an oncologist that will light them on fire and get them super excited and take all the steps to healing their body and learning those tools, you want to check that out. The links to everything we're talking about today will be on the show notes of today's podcast at and in the podcast's description, wherever you're listening from.

The next course is Nourish Your Life. This is similar to the first one and not for people overcoming or rebuilding their bodies after cancer. So who is Nourish Your Life for? 

[1:01:35.5] Mark Reinfeld: This is for anyone who wants to incorporate more plant-based foods into their lives but needs help figuring out how to do it. So we developed this course, as I mentioned, for wherever people are at. We meet them where they're at. We do a 90-minute Zoom interactive presentation once a week for six weeks. And Ashley, Dr. Budai presents the nutrition side and gives people a basic understanding of plant-based nutrition. Do you often need that fortification of whether I am getting enough protein or calcium? Or what are the healthy fats? So it's a good solid understanding of plant-based nutrition. Each week of the program, I go through a really ground zero. This is the sharp end of the knife. This is how you stock your pantry. This is like a basic equipment list you could use to start. You could go with just a knife and a cutting board. So I like to encourage people to make it easy to move into this. So we set up a membership community where people can ask questions. 

Our mission is to help people sustain a plant-based lifestyle or include more plants in their lifestyle, whatever that turns out to be. As you said, the vegan police are not present in any of our classes. Everyone is welcome. I love seeing people light up when they realize I can cook. I can make this food taste good. I can prepare healthy food for my family. Ashley and I have 45 years of combined experience living a plant-based lifestyle. We share much of what works for us, and it becomes second nature. So the course is for anyone wanting to include more plants. We work with doctors who are busy cardiologists.

As you know, there are more studies and research that are coming out to show that a lot of the major health challenges that we are facing as a society, particularly cardiovascular disease, diabetes, high cholesterol, hypertension, and certain forms of cancer, can be prevented and reversed by including more plant-based foods in our diet. So busy doctors don't have time to show people what to do. They could say you need to eat more plant-based or reduce your meat consumption, but people must learn how to do it. So it's for anyone advised by their doctor for these conditions to include more plants. So that's who we love working with and helping.

[1:04:52.3] Ashley James: I've had cardiologists on the show who have reversed heart disease, unclogged arteries, using a whole food plant-based oil-free diet. But even the word plant-based, I think, is like the word vegan. It does not mean healthy because I can get a Beyond Burger or whatever burger. It falls into the vegan junk food category if you want to eat that. If you want to try it, go ahead. Beyond Burgers is safer than the other ones because the other ones have GMO ingredients or weird lab-based ingredients. But all those “plant-based” foods got these fake alternative meats, which is the same as going out and eating at a restaurant. You don't really know the chain of custody. They're not choosing the highest quality ingredients for you. You are way better off learning how to make your own lentil burger at home. 

I have done some amazing experiments. Be willing to burn food, like me. I hate wasting food, but be willing to make something bad and throw it out because you've learned. It's like you are Edison, and your meal is the light bulb. And you will get it the more you try, I promise you. 

[1:06:26.2] Mark Reinfeld: I like to say there are no mistakes in the kitchen. 

[1:06:29.1] Ashley James: There definitely are when you have many hungry family members waiting for you. But this is why you practice on your own time or make a backup meal if you're experimenting. It's so funny because I always experiment. My husband looks at me sideways, like, am I the guinea pig today? I'll hand him something, and I keep smiling at him, but in the back of my mind, I want to say you might not like it because I burnt it or overseasoned dinner. He's taught me just to shut up and smile at him and wait till he says something.

[1:07:05.5] Mark Reinfeld: Like I used to say, there are no mistakes in the kitchen. If you go to a restaurant with a smokey navy bean soup, someone may have burnt the navy beans earlier in the day, or you could call it rustic if it doesn't come out quite the way you wanted it to. So I really like that. In all my classes, I encourage people to keep a positive attitude, be gentle with themselves, and keep trying. I like the Edison metaphor. That's great. 

[1:07:41.9] Ashley James: So I remember these burgers I made were so good and were just three ingredients. I know it's all ⅓ of something, like ⅓ brown rice, ⅓ black beans, and ⅓ quinoa. I just blended it together. You can probably do ½ cooked brown rice, ½ of some bean, and then blend it. And I added a bunch of chipotle-style Tex-Mex kind of spices and squished them into patties on a parchment paper baking sheet. I baked them until they were crunchy on the outside but not burnt. I sliced a bunch of avocados, and I also had in the fridge a mango salsa, which is from Costco. This is the one thing that I didn't do. It's a little bit spicy. Then I took a beautiful purple cabbage, and I took the brawl leaves off. So that became the burger. It was so easy to make. 

It was really beautiful because of the purple leaf. And then I put the patty in the leaf and the greens. So you got the purple, the green, and the brown, and then I covered it with this beautiful salsa. You pull over the purple cabbage and eat it. The burger is still hot, so you have the hot burger and a little bit of the crunch. And then you have that sweetness and smoothness of the avocado and the cold crunch of the cabbage. It was delicious. We had guests over, and I'm just throwing something together, and we'll see what happens. And we ate all of it. Everyone wanted seconds and thirds. It was so beautiful. I would take that over Beyond Burger or some Frankenstein, lab-created fake meat. Just try rice and beans.

[1:10:08.0] Mark Reinfeld: You'd be great as a cookbook author because that perfectly describes the food. You used a lot of good descriptive adjectives. 

[1:10:16.7] Ashley James: Nice. All right, maybe I have a future in that. Thank you. 

[1:10:21.6] Mark Reinfeld: The purple cabbage is funny because my sister got my son to eat purple cabbage just by calling them cabalicious chips. Somehow now, he likes purple cabbage just because they're called that.

[1:10:39.9] Ashley James: Yes, you do have to play around with words with kids for them to like it. And that is funny. Last night, he really wanted to eat bok choy. I didn't have any, but I had napa cabbage. I'm like, here, I bought you his cousin. And I handed him a bunch of washed leaves of napa cabbage. He looked at me, ate it, and said, yeah, this thing is related to bok choy.

[1:11:06.0] Mark Reinfeld: Very cool. 

[1:11:07.1] Ashley James: You got to play with it. And I like that idea of variety because I've heard from many doctors that different plants' fiber feeds the gut bacteria. And so it really is that variety of both cooked and raw from organic sources. That would be great if you could get more than thirty of that variety. Some indigenous cultures live off the land, and they're not vegan. If they get to kill a pig, which doesn't happen often, most of their diet comes from foraging, and they eat over a hundred different varieties. And these are the tribal people that we're discovering have the most diverse gut microbiome and are the healthiest. And those microbiomes are missing from the Western world because of antibiotics, like lactobacillus rotor, which has been completely wiped out from the Western population because even one dose of antibiotics will wipe it out. They have seen the correlation between eating more variety of plants with a more diverse microbiome, which leads to a stronger foundation of health. 

[1:12:22.2] Mark Reinfeld: It might have been thirty a day. 

[1:12:27.8] Ashley James: Oh my gosh. We must have Dr. Ashley on the show when she returns from her trip. I would love to have her on the show and have her share some of her science and what she loves about using plant-based to heal the body. You did talk a little bit about your books. Tell us more about your books. Which one is your absolute favorite? If we could only get one of your books, which would be the life-changing of all of them?

[1:12:53.3] Mark Reinfeld: That's a good one. That's a really tough question. It's like asking who your favorite kid is. The first book, which is out of print, which I co-authored with Bo Rinaldi, Vegan World Fusion Cuisine, is the summation. At the time, that was a life workbook, a culmination of years of traveling and culinary exploration. It was magical when Bo and I met; he'd been traveling and was accomplished on his own. That book is out of print. If I had to say a book that's most readily available, it would be Healing the Vegan Way, which has over 200 recipes and contributions from many leading plant-based doctors and nutritionists. So many of them you would be familiar with. There are oil-free variations and gluten-free variations for all the recipes. It also has a nutrient reference chart that talks about which nutrients are essential for which body systems, like the cardiovascular, skeletal, and nervous systems, what the plant source of those nutrients are, and which of the recipe in the book provide those nutrients. So it's a fantastic reference guide. 

I know you asked me for my favorite, but the last book was the one that I co-authored with Ashley called The Ultimate Age-Defying Plan. It has a foreword by Dr. Klaper. And with that book, some recipes are seven ingredients or less. So it's straightforward and easy to follow. It also breaks it down based on the crucial nutrients for each body system, where and how to get them, and what recipes provide them. So that's the one I'd like to give as a giveaway. It's The Ultimate Age-Defying Plan. 

[1:15:06.3] Ashley James: Oh, that is so nice of you. I'm so excited. Will you give us a link so we can download it? 

[1:15:12.4] Mark Reinfeld: I could send you a copy. But it's like a giveaway to someone.

[1:15:22.4] Ashley James: Okay, so here's the thing. You're going to give away that book, seven ingredients or less, which you've written with your wife, a naturopathic physician, where you're making nutrient and healing recipes. I want listeners to go to the Facebook group From there, I'll make a post. It'll be pinned to the top, and I'll ask you guys to say something, and I will have my son pick a person. I want to avoid having my bias pick the person. It will be random. But I'll open it up and say, okay, scroll through here. He can read now. I used to do this when he couldn't read, and he would pick people based on their profile pictures. Now, if your profile picture has an axolotl, he'll probably pick you.

But right now, whoever wants to be part of the giveaway, I'll have him pick someone, and then we'll get your address and send you the books. That's really generous, thank you. So off the top of your head, or you can grab the book, can you share a recipe or two from that book? I love the idea of the seven ingredients or less recipes. 

[1:16:55.7] Mark Reinfeld: Can you pick a type of dish that you would like?

[1:17:03.9] Ashley James: Do you have sections like salad, appetizers, entrees, and then desserts? You can open up the book randomly in different places.

[1:17:17.8] Mark Reinfeld: So here's a berry chia bowl with pomegranate I just opened to. It uses fruit-sweetened chia pudding with pomegranate, cacao nibs, cardamom, strawberries, and sweet and spicy plantains, an amazing food. It has chipotle powder, allspice cinnamon, cilantro, and lime juice. We have a macro meal using vegetable stock with the sea vegetable arame, roasted veggies, and adzuki beans. I have a pecan sage holiday loaf recipe, so you say it's making a casserole. I do list optional ingredients. The core ingredients are seven, but there is more if you want to do more. I have a chili peach pepper jam or ruby sauerkraut.

[1:18:35.6] Ashley James: I'm still back on the first recipe. So, I have this gift. I thought everyone could do this, and my husband pointed out that only some people do this. If you list ingredients, I can taste them. It's like synesthesia. Not only can I taste ingredients, but I can taste them when you mix them, and I can taste the final product when it's cooked, and in my head, I can taste it. I thought everyone could do that. So you're listing off these ingredients, and suddenly you throw in that cardamom, and I am drooling.

[1:19:04.4] Mark Reinfeld: That's one of my desert island spices, the stuck on a desert island with one spice. Chipotle powder is probably my one spice, but cardamom is a close second.

[1:19:18.2] Ashley James: Cardamom is so underutilized in the American diet, and you don't need a lot. There's just something about it. So you've got some really amazing, powerful flavors in these recipes. I'm also hearing the healing modalities in each recipe. You're going through pomegranates being incredibly high in antioxidants. They found this micro-blue zone in the United States where pomegranate was growing along the southwestern United States where the railroad was. Those from Asia brought over pomegranates, and as they built the railroad, they would spit the seeds out. So along the railroad, it's just miraculous, like Johnny Appleseed but with pomegranates. They found that they were just in this area, and it usually was poor farm towns where they lived off the land. So they were foraging all these pomegranates and eating them. And those who were growing up eating pomegranates their whole life, that micro blue zone, had more people living disease-free beyond one hundred, than those only a mile or two away that didn't have access to the pomegranates. I'm not saying it's the silver bullet to everything. But they're so good for you. So you can add them to your breakfast a few times a week. I love the cardamom with all those other flavors. I want to get your book now. 

Do you have any stories you want to share with us? You've been in this so long, and sometimes when we get in it, we forget how cool it is for someone to say, hey, I'll try using food as medicine. I'll try going plant-based, but not the twinkie plant-based, and the pasta kind of plant-based. It's the plant-based that's like, I'm going to play this game called “how much nutrition can I pack onto my plate every day,” as Dr. Joel Fuhrman talks about the nutritarian diet. So he's not necessarily saying you have to go vegan. So he's saying you must crowd your plate with the most phytonutrients, vitamins, and minerals you can possibly crowd your plate with and see how you feel after doing that for a while. 

That's why I love it because it's not about dogma. It's not about telling people they can't eat meat. It tells you you can eat these foods that contain antioxidants and are amazing for your gut, energy levels, and skin. So the list goes on and on. And as you said, some people are healing heart disease, healing their bodies from very common illnesses like type 2 diabetes, using this food. 

Do you have any success stories of people who reluctantly started eating this way, knowing they needed to heal their bodies, and then shared their results with you? 

[1:22:50.2] Mark Reinfeld: I do, actually. If you have 4 hours, I could keep talking about them. There are so many, but I'll start with the latest one. In my classes, there are people from all walks of life. I had a cattle rancher take my class, and she did a video testimonial. I don't think she realized what she was saying. She was saying on camera, well, everyone knows we should be eating less meat. It was one of those funny moments. But starting recently, in the class I'm doing, we have a retired Navy officer who then went into Homeland Security and retired. He basically found out he had diabetes, and his doctor said you're going to be on medication for the rest of your life. He did some research and came upon The China Study. He's not vegan, but he mainly ate plant-based and reversed his diabetes. He is no longer considered a diabetic. That was over a couple of year period. And then he returned to his doctor and said that my only change was changing my diet. They nod their head and say, that's great. It's like what we talked about earlier about the institutions and the recommendations that doctors have to make based on certain protocols. It's really frustrating when you see how many people's lives could be enhanced by making these changes to diet and lifestyle. 

I have this retired firefighter whose doctor said he had diabetes and needed to go on medication for the rest of his life. He was in Taiwan, where he called his wife and said, we're going vegan, and we're going plant-based. So he changed his diet and went back six months later to his doctor. The doctor was like, I've never seen anything like this before. I don't know what you're doing but still keep at it. He reversed. 

Another student came; he was very overweight and had diabetes. He was really concerned about taking my class, and he came. After the first day, he texted me and said his blood results had never been this good. And that was just after one day of eating plant-based, and then he went on. His story and the firefighter's is in the Healing the Vegan Way book. But he went on primarily raw foods, and he reversed his diabetes.

Another woman, who was only thirty years old or in her late twenties, had really high cholesterol, and her doctor said she needed to go on statins. And this is what you will deal with for the rest of your life. So she went plant-based. 

I've literally lost track. That's just off the top of my head of people who have made positive changes to their health. Even if it's not 100% vegan, it's just becoming, like you said, crowning it out, eating more plant-based, more nutrient-dense, and healthy plant-based foods. Things are slowly gaining traction, specifically with heart disease and cardiovascular disease. This is a very positive way that you can make changes for the better in preventing and reversing many of these diseases.

[1:26:55.2] Ashley James: Dr. Esselstyn is one of the doctors that published the world's longest study on reversing heart disease using diet. His book is incredible. I recommend just getting it for any of your family members who have any inkling of heart disease. Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease is the name of his book. I had him on the show. He was doing autopsies on twenty-year-old soldiers during the Vietnam War when he saw that heart disease was already occurring in them. So you can imagine that heart disease starts in our teenagers from the food we eat. I'm not pointing the finger and saying meat is bad. But, again, I don't want to paint this as a black-and-white thing. I'm not a vegan police. I'm saying that the standard American diet, filled with fried food and really bad, low-quality oils, is just saturated in all the food. If you want to eat healthily, buy rice and beans at a Mexican restaurant. It is filled with cancer-causing, heart-clogging oils. And this isn't my opinion. This is the science.

So Dr. Esselstyn figured out a way to reverse even up to four clogs in the heart. He had people with clogged sewer on their deathbeds and eating this way. It was a very simple way at first because he didn't have recipes. He was like, you stop eating all these foods and only eat these plants. And, of course, it was just plain and gross, and no one knew how to eat delicious back then. But those who stuck with it all reversed the heart disease super fast. 

I had a client who was going to lose his job, and he loved his career. But his career required him to be within certain parameters with his blood pressure and cholesterol. Even though he was healthy, muscular, and super-fit, his cholesterol and blood pressure were through the roof, and he was very quickly going to be laid off from his career. So he was desperate, and I gave him all this information. Here's what Dr. Esselstyn says, and you can choose to follow that. But I've seen him get the fastest results in one month of eating this way. His blood pressure and cholesterol were within normal parameters, and he got to keep his job. And he loves his job, so for him, it was worth it. And just that kind of how quickly someone can reverse the health condition or can get back into normal parameters; I'm so excited to see that. 

You mentioned statin, and I have to say this because many people don't know this. I had a doctor on the show who's not plant-based. He's a cardiologist, a research scientist Ph.D., and his name is Dr. Fleming. He invented the Fleming test or the Fleming method. He's been saying for 30 years that the beginnings of heart disease and cancer are the same. The beginnings are the detection of inflammation. He's very upfront about being pro-drugs, but he can't deny the evidence that food affects our health because so many doctors say, ” Oh, you have to be on a drug. Diet's not going to affect that. Really? So food doesn't affect our health, but drugs will? But he believes that food plays a role in healing. But he looks at it from the medical standpoint. So he invented the test that hospitals use to detect heart disease, the quickest and the soonest way when it is in the earliest stages of heart disease and long before you've seen massive clogs in the arteries. And his whole thing is understanding that the beginnings of heart disease start years before as inflammation and that he sees that the foods we eat are causing the inflammation. So we need to create a diet that decreases inflammation and can reverse these illnesses. 

But here's the thing about statin drugs. Long ago, they were saying cholesterol is the cause of heart disease. Dr. Fleming and other mavericks in the research world were being canceled. So there's cancel culture back then because they said no, it's not. It is a symptom of it, as it happens later down the road. But we see inflammation early on, and then cluster occurs down the road. It is not the beginning cause. It is something that happens because of heart disease. Cholesterol deposits aren't the actual cause. It happens because of heart disease. They were saying giving people statins is not going to solve the problem. So we need to back up and go down earlier up the stream to the origins. 

Back when they first introduced statin drugs up until about 10 years ago, so for at least 20 years, they required that you had to get a blood test every six months to make sure that your liver wasn't being too damaged by the statins. This is how statins work. Your body makes cholesterol. So I get my fat from wholefood plants, so I'm eating an avocado, not the avocado oil. I'm eating flax seed and not the flax seed oil. I'm eating an olive instead of olive oil. But I choose not to eat super high fat foods all day long. So I'm eating naturally low fat. Cholesterol is so important to us. It's the building blocks of your sex hormones, your stress hormones. It is what protects our nervous system. It's the myelin sheath that goes around like an installation around our nervous system and it makes up every single cell wall in the body. We've got over 37.2 trillion cells that require cholesterol to make the cell wall healthy. So we need to have healthy cholesterol. If you don't eat it, your body is going to break down the food you eat and make cholesterol. The liver is responsible for doing that. 

So the doctors would take your blood and go, oh look, bad cholesterol. We have to lower your cholesterol. And instead of saying, by the way, maybe you should stop eating pro-inflammatory foods that are oxidizing your cholesterol causing LDL. Low density lipoprotein is a sign of oxidation in the body which is a free radical damage, like increasing antioxidant-rich foods and getting your fat from healthier sources, getting some good exercise in there, as well as all the lifestyle changes you can do. They just said okay, we're going to create a drug that damages your liver so much. It bruises your liver so much, it ceases to function correctly and it stops producing cholesterol. But they didn't tell you to stop eating it. This doesn't make any sense to me because if the problem was too much cholesterol, they never said stop eating the cholesterol, or stop eating the foods that cause the inflammation, and that cause the oxidative stress to the fat that's loaded with lipoprotein. They're saying, let's just damage your liver. If the pharmaceutical company was completely like this, it's so obvious that they showed their hand. How obvious do you have to be? These doctors have good intentions to help you. I've asked every cardiologist I had on the show if statins make a difference, and they say they do more harm than good. There's only one study that shows that if you took statins after your first heart attack, you'll be less likely to get your second heart attack. But I'm like, by the time you're having your first attack, there's some major damage and we need to reverse some stuff. But all these cardiologists said, statins do not prevent the first heart attack. It's damaging the liver. 

But you brought up statins, and I think it's a really good point to take a step back and say, wait a second. I need to question everything I've been taught about food, healing, and medicine. I have to start thinking for myself and start looking around with what's working. And what we see work is taking that nutritarian approach of using the most nutrient-dense rich foods or fiber rich foods and adding those to our plate. That's what we're seeing really works. 

[1:36:57.4] Mark Reinfeld: It's like the future of medicine is returning to the origins of medicine and Hippocrates saying, let food be your medicine. I think you come full circle to realize the important role that choosing the right foods plays in our overall health.

[1:37:14.7] Ashley James: Isn't that wild? Do you have any go-to recipes for your own healing? If you have a headache, do you like to reach for the coconut water? Or if you injured yourself, do you make sure to add turmeric to your food. Do you have any first aid foods that you incorporate in your life? 

[1:37:37.2] Mark Reinfeld: I would say making turmeric milk, or gold milk. My sister has done a lot of healing and has come across studies of the core foods to include and the turmeric milk is definitely one that I noticed helped me pass through if there's something going around here. I just dose up on the turmeric milk. You can make a really simple tumeric paste with powdered turmeric and a little ground black pepper. And I like cardamom. Whenever I could put cardamom in something, I do. So I put a little cardamom and cinnamon, and some cayenne in it as well and you could just mix that with water to form a paste. I feel having some warm plant-based milk helps me kick the latest thing that was going around. 

[1:38:44.4] Ashley James: I love that. I do something really similar and we call it moon tea, but I make a concentrate of it. I can send you my recipe. This is after me playing with it. But I'm going to try adding cardamom. I haven't done that. But I'll add some ashwagandha, some mushroom powder, and also ginger and clove. They are antiviral and antiparasitic. And ashwagandha is so great for sleep. So I do all that and I make a concentrate. I take a scoop of it, put it in hot water, and then a little bit of coconut milk. You can add a little bit of date syrup or stevia if you want. My favorite is a little bit of maple. I'm Canadian, okay. 

[1:39:35.4] Mark Reinfeld: Maple syrup is my go-to sweetener too. What form is the ashwagandha? Is it the powdered form? 

[1:39:43.8] Ashley James: It's powder. 

[1:39:45.3] Mark Reinfeld: Okay. 

[1:39:46.2] Ashley James: If there's a better way, tell me, because I just buy a big bag of organic ashwagandha powder. 

[1:39:51.8] Mark Reinfeld: Okay, that's cool. Yeah, we have the tincture. 

[1:39:54.1] Ashley James: Okay, yeah. You know you're definitely getting a more concentrated amount. I already sleep really well, but I go to bed on my side and I wake up on the same side when I drink the stuff. I don't know if it's just because of the turmeric that's anti-inflammatory or it's coupled with the ashwagandha. I have an amazing bed that absorbs all the pressure points, and doesn't cause any pressure points. I have a whole interview about this technology that they invented originally to cure bed sores. So I can actually fall asleep and stay asleep for 8 hours on my shoulder and on my hip and and have no pain the next day. But I'll fall asleep in one position, and I'll stay asleep the whole night. If I drink this stuff, it's like I did not move the entire night. 

[1:40:50.3] Mark Reinfeld: I love to check that out. That's amazing. The food is crucial and the sleep is very important. And that reminds me of something called The Nourish Plan, and we go through that in in the book, The Age-Defying Plan. But sleep is definitely a core principle for health. Pushed in a corner, I might even say sleep is the most important. They all fit together, but I'm glad you touched on the sleep topic. 

[1:41:31.2] Ashley James: Yes, the S is in the beginning. You have to come up with the word that meant nourish but started with an S.

[1:41:36.5] Mark Reinfeld: Well, that's what the S is for.

[1:41:40.5] Ashley James: Can you tell us what the other ones are for?

[1:41:44.6] Mark Reinfeld: Yeah, the N is for nutrition. So that's looking at the food and energy and phytonutrient that comes from plants. O is for oxytocin, which is just feeling the happiness hormone and feeling that sense of joy and connection. The U is for use it or lose it. So that's where the movement and the exercise or whatever can fit into your life. It doesn't have to be pumping iron all the time. The R is for relationships. So it's the importance of our fast-paced, digital culture, like the real importance of having that connection to others and the support of friends in your community. We all have our own stories to share the. The I is for intention, and that's where the mindfulness comes in and just bringing intention into how we live. I think that's an ongoing exercise for all of us. The S is for sleep. If there was a way to put S first, I might. Then the H is for hydration. It's the importance of water. Hydrotherapy is something that's really big in our house; the hot and cold with water, steaming, and just drinking good quality water. That's our Nourish Plan.

[1:43:30.1] Ashley James: I love it so much. The S and the H are competing for the number one place. So one of my mentors has been practicing for 35 years, naturopathic physician, Dr. Molly Niedermeyer. She used to be the dean of Bastyr Naturopathic Medical College and she's delivered over a thousand babies. She's an amazing woman to pick her brain and I was fortunate to have her as my doctor for several years and I've learned so much from her. This is a tongue twister. She said 5% reduction in hydration leads to a 25% reduction in energy production. By the way, it takes a week to become dehydrated. Like if you didn't drink enough water and drink too much coffee that one day, but if you repeat that for seven days, and you have chronic dehydration. And it takes seven days of drinking half your body weight in ounces, plus any extra to recoup from sweating from exercise and from stressors like caffeine. But it takes you seven days. It's not just one day of drinking enough water and it's good. You have to do it every day for seven days and now you've recovered from chronic dehydration.  

Imagine if you just drank 5%, that's like maybe 5 ounces. So 5% is not a lot. If you think, oh I drink 70 ounces, I'm good. I drink 60 ounces, I'm good. But if your body even needed 65 or 70 or 80 ounces, and you're missing just 5% of your hydration, it leads to a 25% reduction in your body's ability to produce ATP which is cellular energy. It also reduces your ability to clear toxins away from the cells and to bring in nutrients. 

I had a doctor on my show who was on his deathbed and he used this thought process to heal his body. All the doctor said, go home to die, and he used this one process. He was in sepsis and his liver was in liver failure. He was really bad and he said, okay, I understand how the body works. I need to think about how to make a cell healthy. It's like every cell is a house. Take out the garbage, bring in the groceries. The cells have inflammation around it. So the groceries can't get in and the garbage can't get out. It's like a blizzard has come in, and surrounded each house. And now the organelles inside the house are stuck in going. I can't get the groceries in, and the garbage out. That's what sickness is. 

So he had to break it down and he used hydration as one of his ways. And to everyone's amazement, he lived and thrived after that. I got to do everything possible to bring down the inflammation. So I hydrate so I can get the groceries in and the garbage out. 

[1:46:34.3] Mark Reinfeld: Wow, that's a great metaphor. That's a great story. 

[1:46:37.3] Ashley James: So your food and your nourish plan is getting the good groceries in, and getting the garbage out. And that's fantastic. I love that, and I love that you bring in intention as well. We don't realize that mindset is everything. If we're not moving towards the way we want to be, we're like an untethered boat just bobbing around in the ocean. We start to feel like we've lost a purpose. If we know where we're going, and we know that it's possible to have healing, which it is. 

And many listeners know, but some new ones might not, that I had chronic adrenal fatigue so bad, I couldn't process human language in the morning. I was a wreck and I had type 2 diabetes. I was hungry and had to eat every 45 minutes. I had out of control blood sugar. I cry every day because I was a prisoner trapped in a really sick body. And this was in my twenties. My twenties were supposed to be going out partying and having fun. I was just sick all the time. It was holistic medicine that I was able to also reverse polycystic ovarian syndrome. I was told after a battery of tests that I'd never get pregnant. And we have an amazing son. I was able to reverse polycystic ovarian syndrome. It's no longer in my blood work and I no longer have the symptoms of it. So I was able to reverse infertility, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and type 2 diabetes. I was able to reverse chronic adrenal fatigue. That was the easiest, fastest thing to leave my body; and its nutrition. So if I can heal my body using food, so can you. And also, filling in the gaps with those wonderful supplements. It's like the mortar, food is the brakes. You can't add supplements on a bad diet. But also sometimes we need that extra support from herbs and minerals. So I love that. 

I'm going to just jump into your books and I can't wait to add more cardamom to my diet. That sounds delicious. And we're doing a giveaway on the Learn True Health Facebook group. We've talked so much today, but is there anything we haven't talked about today that you really wanted to make sure we touch on?

[1:48:53.1] Mark Reinfeld: One thing I'd like to say is what I've come across in just tuning into this idea of purpose and what our role is here. For me, like I mentioned, I just love showing people how to create plant-based food that tastes amazing. And so, I came out with these seven culinary keys to create amazing plant-based foods. If we have the time, I could just do a quick overview of them. But this is consolidating 25 plus years of working with them. 

So the first is palate development. This is something that develops over time as you learn to develop the subtle flavors of food. So I like doing palate development exercises with people, of tasting garlic all the way from raw to burn or tasting water with different flavors, like salty, sweet, sour, or pungent, so you can develop your palate over time. 

The second key is this template recipe format where you learn to see the underlying formula of a recipe. Once you see that underlying formula, you could see that by changing the different components you could create a new recipe. And that NOURISH course we offer; there maybe twenty-five or thirty recipes we share, but you're actually learning hundreds, and even thousands of recipes when you implement that template recipe format.

The third key would be the global spice blends that that we talked about. It is just the simple act of stocking your pantry with these blends. Like you said, you could take a baked potato and create world cuisine just by adding those different spice blends. 

The fourth would be world sauces. So it's really diving in and getting creative with your sauces. They could just be things like barbecue, Thai peanut, pesto, sweet and sour teriyaki. So, once you start adding all these world sauces into your repertoire, your creations really take off. 

And then the other step I call is veganizing, where if you love your bacon cheeseburger, there are ways to create plant-based alternatives that could satisfy the craving. These might be in the transitional food categories that I don't recommend all the time. Like a vegan mayonnaise, is not the same nutrition as a shot of wheatgrass. But if it helps you overcome a craving and you're heading towards that, a whole food plant-based diet, I feel that they play a role.

The sixth key is superfood nutrition. This is what you talked about, adding nutrient-dense superfoods, as well as raw foods, just to maximize the vitality of your meals. Then the last would be experimentation. 

And the three most important thing is our practice, practice and practice, and you touched on that also. We're just experimenting in the kitchen, use different ingredients and techniques, and over time, you'll see your skills and your confidence and creativity will definitely start to expand in the kitchen.

[1:52:25.0] Ashley James: I love it. Many people have heard of this, but I feel like I'm kind of late to the party, but there's something called ChatGPT, and it said, open source AI software, meaning you don't have to pay for it. So my husband and I had a lot of fun playing with it, and I typed in give me ten recipes. So I asked for recipes, and what it did is just gave me a list of ingredients, and it said, you got to experiment yourself with the different ratios. But this is more like an idea instead of sticking exactly to recipes. It's more like, throw in the pan and see what happens. And I asked it to give me ten dinner ideas for whole food, plant-based diet. This is an AI, an artificial intelligence, but it's crazy. I had so much fun. So here, I just typed it in because I couldn't find my chat before, which had some really delicious, and I was reading it like, my mouth was watering. But here we have quinoa stir-fried with vegetable and tofu. You don't need a recipe for that, because you could choose Italian seasoning or you could choose maybe curry, and there are different kinds of curries in the world. But I could make Japanese curry kind of gravy, or I could do pesto. So here we have quinoa stir-fry with vegetables and tofu. The second one is lentil soup with bread, chickpea and vegetable curry, roasted eggplant with humus and whole grain pita, stuffed bell pepper with rice, beans, and veggies, spaghetti with marinara sauce, of course, and roasted vegetables, sweet potato and black bean tacos, avocado and tomato sandwich with whole grain bread. It just goes on and on. My last one is grilled portobello mushroom with baked sweet potato and steamed greens. I didn't mean to let an AI replace you. That wasn't the point. Although you should feel a little threatened. The AI is coming after the vegan chefs, I'm just saying. 

But if you need these ideas, there are so many out there. But for me, when I look at recipes, I'm looking at how much dense nutrition profile does this have? I'm not going to choose the one with pasta and the the pita bread and all that, because those foods don't contain a lot of dense nutrition. Those are fun to eat, sure. But I'm looking for the dense nutrition and anything that has lots of vegetables and lots of flavor. That's why I like your recipes because you've got your wife looking over shoulder going, okay, we should add the antioxidant-rich foods into this recipe. So I love that you got this doctor at your side going, all right, I really want you to create a recipe that has this many antioxidants in it. It's like, let's get at least 30 vegetables a week. I thought it was funny because you said per day, and I'm like, 30 plants a day kind of sounds like more than 15 minutes in the kitchen. That's like, you have 30 seconds per plant.

[1:55:45.0] Mark Reinfeld: Well, picture how many could be in a nice salad. You could hit 15.

[1:55:48.8] Ashley James: That's true, exactly. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I think the point is that for people who feel intimidated by the kitchen, there are so many resources for you. And in a very short period of time, you could go from not knowing how to cook, or not liking cooking, to really enjoying it. Because when you make delicious food and your family loves it, you start to feel healthy because of your food. It is a super big motivator. But we have to start with really simple, delicious, and nutritious recipes, and that's what you started with, to teach us the habit in the kitchen to build our confidence up.

[1:56:36.6] Mark Reinfeld: Totally. That's what it's all about for us. 

[1:56:39.6] Ashley James: Awesome. Well, good luck with the launch of your two courses that are coming up really soon. I'll make sure all the information is in the show notes of today's podcast,, and in all the podcast directories as well, so that they can check it out. It's been such a pleasure having you on the show and please, I look forward to having your wife on the show. And I definitely want to interview anyone that you recommend because you are so well-connected with all the amazing holistic doctors that are helping people heal their bodies, especially with food. 

[1:57:10.3] Mark Reinfeld: Thank you so much, Ashley. It's been a pleasure speaking with you and I've learned a lot from you too. So thank you for all these tidbits. 

[1:57:18.2] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today's episode with Chef Mark Reinfeld. And I am still drooling thinking about that cardamom in that dish, and I just love how he pairs some of those flavors. I love that he's thinking about people who are just starting out in the kitchen and especially those of us who are trying to get our health back. We're already tired. We already got a million things to do, but we know that eating out really deteriorates our body. It does not build us up. We're either building up or we're breaking down. That's how the body works. It's either going in one direction or going in the other. This myth of homeostasis, if we never achieve homeostasis, we're always trying to achieve it. We're always moving closer to the mark or away from the mark. So if you think about like, oh I'm too tired to cook, I get it. I have spent way too much money eating out. There's the cost on your wallet, but there's the cost on your long-term health. Your cells now have to figure out how to build new healthy cells with this limited amount of nutrients, because we are not getting the optimal quality nutrients when we eat out. We just aren't. 

And so the best thing to do is to learn how to make simple meals. Now, I do. It takes me about 15 minutes from start to finish, to make delicious multi-vegetable meals, and it just takes practice and takes getting in the kitchen. The biggest thing I could say is, if you are feeding yourself or even if you're feeding your family and you only have enough time to cook once a day, you should make more. Double the recipe, or triple the recipe. Cook like you're cooking Thanksgiving, and cook a much larger portion. You can always freeze it. You can always portion it out. Leftovers taste better so you can heat it up, and eat it for lunch the next day. Heck, I've eaten dinner for breakfast the next day. It just saves you so much energy and time. Because if you're prepping everything once and you already have it out of the fridge, you're already cooking it. All it takes is just two more minutes to prep a little bit more of the same vegetables and the same foods. My biggest thing is I always triple or quadruple recipes, have leftovers for three days, and then it's just easy breezy, lemon squeezy. 

So check out Mark's stuff. Go to, and see his beautiful recipes and know that everything that he does is approved by a naturopathic physician who is very hypocritical of the work because it's his wife's of course. She's looking over his shoulder and telling him what she believes are the healthiest foods to heal and nourish the body. And then he comes up with the amazing flavors. If we can enjoy health, then that's perfect. That's exactly what we need. So speaking of which, I'm going to go eat the leftovers. I cooked at lunch and I made enough so that I can have the same meal for dinner, because I wanted to save myself some time and energy and be able to do other things around the house, including publishing this episode. So, I'm going to publish this episode and go eat my delicious lunch part 2, for dinner. Have yourself a fantastic day and watch out for the next episode because it will blow your mind.

Get Connected with Chef Mark Reinfeld!








Jan 26, 2023

To work with Ashley James and try the phototherapy, Go Here:
In the Menu, click Work with Ashley James


496: Phototherapy Patches

Ashley James & Trina Hammack

Trina Hammack explains the benefits of using biophoton therapy patches to increase stem cell production and metabolism, lose weight, and stimulate the body's ability to burn fat healthfully and detox. All these things and more will be discussed in today's episode.


  • Biophoton therapy patches
  • A protocol for pain and decreasing inflammation in the body as a whole
  • Cutting-edge technology stimulates the body's ability to make new peptides and create new stem cells.
  • A technology that stimulates your body's own healing mechanisms
  • Energy patches can increase your fat burning by 23%
  • Holistic medicine and healing the body


Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of Learn True Health Podcast. Today is fun because we have Trina Hammack back on the show to share some amazing technology my husband and I have been using along with some other family members and friends, and we love it. The results are outstanding. I've been studying this and diving into it. As you listen to this episode today and want to try this technology, you can book a session with me where I can help you figure out exactly what protocol you need. 

Go to, and right at the top, it says, “Work with Ashley James”. When you click on that, the first thing at the top will be Free Phototherapy Discovery Session. It’s a 15-minute phone call. Book it, and then I can help you pick the proper protocol. This doesn't make much sense because you haven’t listened to the episode. I just wanted to arm you with all the information you needed. So as you're listening, if you say, “Ah, this is really for me. I want to try it, ” then you can go ahead and book a call with me, and I'll help you through it. And I have access to many excellent practitioners who have been using this type of technology. This technology helps increase stem cells in the body, muscle mass, bone density, and collagen. People's cellular age is getting younger. People have more energy and more endurance. For those looking to increase metabolism, lose weight, and stimulate the body's ability to burn fat healthily and detox, all these things and more we discuss in today's episode. Suppose you are interested in using a type of phototherapy that's easy to do, you don't have to buy a machine, and you can do it at home in such an easy application compared to all the other big machines that people have to invest in to do phototherapy; this is amazing. I'll not say much more because you'll learn about it in the episode. I just wanted to ensure you had all the necessary information to take action when ready.

So go to at the very top, click “Work with Ashley James,” and then from there, sign up for our free 15-minute phone call, the Free Phototherapy Discovery Session. If you have any questions, you can also feel free to email me at Enjoy today's episode and share it with your friends who want to get a leg up. So maybe they've hit a wall, hit a plateau, and they want a cutting-edge, they want to get on the other side of something, they have a fantastic protocol for pain, a fantastic protocol for decreasing inflammation in the body as a whole. Be sure to share this episode with your friends who have pain or inflammation or want more stem cells, youth, muscle mass, and bone density. We’ll discuss all these things and many more in this interview. Share this episode with friends interested in the cutting-edge technology that stimulates the body's ability to make these new peptides and create new stem cells. It's wonderful because it's not something you have to add to your body. It’s something that stimulates your body's healing mechanisms. So it's right up your alley if you love holistic medicine, as I do. Excellent. Enjoy today's episode, and have a fantastic rest of your day.

[0:03:43.6] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health Podcast. I'm your host, Ashley James, and this is Episode 496. 

I am so excited about today's guest. We have the functional practitioner, Trina Hammack, on the show. Oh man, the things you do are so exciting. Trina, was it Episode 156? She blew my mind. We talked about getting rid of mold and mold toxicity in the home and how hidden mold can disrupt so many functions of the body, throw the immune system off balance, and throw detoxification off balance. And because of her, I went down the whole rabbit hole and interviewed several other experts on mold, and I had two experts from Green Home Solutions on the show. And so people listening, or like, “I have mold in my home, and I'm sick,” you guys have got to go back and listen to Episode 156. Then, of course, you can go to, type in mold, and find all those other interviews. 

But Trina opened my eyes to many cool things about healing the body. We need to take back our health. We need to put our foot down and say, “I am done with waiting to get sick and going to a doctor who will put me on a drug that keeps me sick. I appreciate drugs for the ones that work, and when we need them, they are there. But I want to say 90% of drugs on the market are not only not helpful but also toxic. They’re harmful because they create a mentality that we wait to get sick and then get put on a drug when holistic medicine is out there. Every bite of food we take is our medicine. Everything we drink is our medicine. Every activity we do in our life is our medicine. There are so many herbs and supplements. There's energy work. And when I say energy work, there's science behind it, like frequency-specific microcurrent. I have a fantastic two-part interview on that, which speeds up the healing time after surgeries. So much, so that sports teams like the NFL use them to get players back on the field faster. These are multi-million-dollar industries, and they use them in their locker rooms and physical therapy.

So, Trina, you use many of the devices and the incredible healing modalities that are so far out to me. They are so far out because we don't see them in the mainstream. Hollywood does such an injustice because you watch Grey's Anatomy and all these shows like Hollywood emergency medicine. But really, Hollywood has painted us a picture of the Western medical machine. This big machine is where you wait to get sick. You go to the doctor. They'll send you off for tests through machines or blood work, and then you'll get put on drugs. But medical doctors are not trained in holistic medicine and healing the body, getting the body so healthy, and supporting the body's ability to heal itself. They're not trained in that. So we're missing. That's only a fraction of the pie of medicine. But that's the only part of medicine we are exposed to daily, right?

It's like, 5% of medicine is that type of medicine, and yet we’re exposed to it as if it's 95% of medicine. So there's the oldest medicine out there that's holistic, supports the body's ability to heal, and gets you so healthy. You no longer have diabetes and heart disease, which is reversible, and polycystic ovarian syndrome, which is reversible. How do I know? I reversed it. I used to have really bad PCOS. An endocrinologist told me I was infertile and I’ll never have kids. Guess what? I have an amazing son and don't have polycystic ovarian syndrome. I don't have diabetes and chronic adrenal fatigue anymore. I don’t have chronic infections for which I was on monthly antibiotics. Many things are reversed, and I've helped many people reverse other issues. Trina has as well. There are thousands of people that Trina has helped. So I know I'm on the soapbox. I’m coming in hot. I'm super excited today because Trina introduced me to something I've been using on multiple friends and family members for over a month. I've seen some mind-blowing results, and I've been super excited to share them with you guys. I wanted to try it, and we've been using it daily. And we've seen some phenomenal results of importing through science.

Trina, I'm so excited to bring this to the listeners today because those listening are sick or suffering. They have friends and family who are sick and suffering, and they want to end that suffering. Some people have already changed their diet. They're already on supplements and doing healthier things, moving their body in a way that brings them joy. They're doing a lot of things. They cleaned up their home. They got rid of all the toxic chemicals underneath the sink, and they stopped using those cleaners. They’ve stopped using cosmetics that have all the horrible things. They got rid of processed foods with dyes, chemicals, and pesticides. So they've cleaned up their lives, and maybe they're still sick. They still have some issues. They are still tired and still in pain. And what you're here today to share has taken people's health to the next level. Even people who've tried everything and they’re still sick. So I’m excited. 

This is one of those keys that maybe you haven't cleaned up your life, but you want to enhance your body's ability to heal itself while you're going through and cleaning up your life. Or, as I said, you're on the other side; you've already cleaned up everything, but you still have some nagging issues that aren't moving, and you're like, why am I doing all this stuff? 

Today, Trina will share something that will make a difference in your life. So welcome back to the show, Trina. I'm super excited to have you here today. 

[0:10:05.6] Trina Hammack: Thank you so much. I love getting together with you and sharing with your listeners all this fantastic information they may still need access to. 

[0:10:18.4] Ashley James: So, diving right in, because it's been a few years since you've been on the show, I want to know what has happened in the last few years. When we had you on the show, you were helping people to detox mold out of their bodies and out of their homes and helping people regain their immune systems, immune function, and detox pathways, clean it up after mold exposure. You also help people with other chronic diseases like Lyme disease and many other chronic issues. So what has happened since then? Catch us up. 

[0:10:55.8] Trina Hammack: Yeah. So back then, when we were talking about mold, my whole family, including the dogs, were going through cleaning up for the mold we had been exposed to. And I had been exposed since I was five. Having genetic SNPs is challenging for me to get rid of mold. So I colonized it. So for me, it’s work. And so when we did that interview, we were in the middle of cleaning up our own systems. We were doing well, but I didn't realize how much better I could be until I was exposed to a technology developed for the Navy Seals twenty years ago, and we started using this technology. At first just with my family, and this was after our interview. So I wish I had known about it back then to tell you about it, but here we are now. So I started using biophoton therapy technology to help my body detox differently than supplements and binders, and other therapies didn't cover this detox component. So when we started using this therapy, we started feeling better faster. My brain function became even more precise. My energy became more on-point and robust, and so did my stamina. So everything started to take on a new level of healing once I started using these biophoton therapy patches. That's what we were doing right after we spoke. Everything just turned on a dime from then on. We got better and better. 

[0:12:40.4] Ashley James: You’re a functional practitioner. You have a clinic, and you work with clients. You started using it with your family, and then you started using it with your clients. What happened then? Please give us the timeline. 

[0:12:54.5] Trina Hammack: So it was crazy because when I first heard about this, I was, sure, yeah, right. I'll bite. I had tried everything, but I still wasn't where I wanted to be. I was close, but it wasn't enough for me. So anyway, I hear about these, and I’m like, I’ll buy it. I bought them and started using them. And almost immediately, I started getting my energy back. My allergy symptoms from mold were getting better. Then I started doing some detox processes, and I kept improving. So my whole family was using them, and they were getting better. We used some of them on dogs. I would see immediate changes because our dogs are mold poisoned too. I was committed to using them just for my family for a while. And I wasn't going to bring them into my practice yet because I needed to vet them.

So anyway, I haven't used them with anybody. Then one day, one of my clients in his 70s came in, and he was mold poisoned. He had Lyme, and he didn't sleep well the night before. So he went in, sat down, and couldn't speak to me. He was like, comatose. I can't even believe he got to the office. I was like, oh my gosh, do I call 911, or what do I do? And then it came to me, just in a flash, to use the biophoton therapy brain injury protocol on him. So, I took these biophoton therapy patches, stuck them on the inside of a ball cap in a certain configuration, and I just put it on his head, and I don't know what to do. I'm just going to Hail Mary in here. And I put it on, and in under two minutes, this man had color back on his face. His eyes lit up, and he started talking up a storm as if he had just woken up. He was just normal, and I was like, holy crow. Oh my gosh. And I said, hey, just wear the hat the rest of the week. You’ll probably get a good week's wear out of these patches. Just wear it and let me know what's going on. So I text him later in the day. I said, hey, how's it going? And he said, oh, I ran errands all day. I went surfing.

Okay, here we go. So that was the first person I used them with within my practice. I still wasn't convinced. I'm like, okay, we'll see. And the second person came in; she had been a practitioner here, and I hadn't seen her for a while. She had gotten mold poisoned. We found mold in her home, and it triggered Parkinson's. My heart just dropped when I saw her. She was tremoring, and she had a shuffling gait. Her speech was prolonged, and she had two frozen shoulders. And she came by, and I'm like, what do I do, because I didn't know enough yet. I knew enough to put this brain hat on her for the brain injury, and it was incredible. Her tremors stopped instantly. Her speech cleared up, and her gait opened up. I'm like, wow, I just watched it before my eyes. Oh my gosh. 

And then I patched her shoulders, and it took about two minutes, and she could lift them straight up in the air pain-free. She couldn't even take off her jacket a few minutes before because she couldn't raise her arms. And at that moment, I said, all right, everybody who walks in the door is going to get patched. And it's so true. We have excellent proprietary protocols that combine acupuncture and biophoton therapy for everybody who comes. When you know how to use them, it's incredible. You can see the pain disappear in under a minute. I've seen it disappear in ten seconds. I've seen inflammation go down before my eyes. There are so many ways to use them. So I’m beyond grateful that we have access to these protocols to know what to do with these patches. 

People may wonder, what the heck is biophoton therapy? Well, these patches were invented for the Navy Seals twenty years ago. David Schmitz created these to help them with their strength and stamina for being in the submarines for days. They had sustained energy and brain function. They heal faster and all this stuff. 

And so these patches get activated by the heat and light from your body when you put a patch on. You're not absorbing anything into the body which is not transdermal, which is fantastic. There are no contraindications when you use them if you’re on medications. So I use them on babies, all the way to older people with no contraindications. The light from your body will activate the patch, depending on which patch you put on. Hey, this stem cell activating patch; let’s put that on and raise your copper peptide levels so your body can make more stem cells and use them wherever you need them. Or let’s put on this carnosine patch to raise carnosine for tissue healing. I put a stem cell patch on an elderly dog this morning who had been traumatized from being at a puppy mill. I put the patch on underneath her collar, and I watched her eyes transform right before mine. The fear just melted away.

It's fantastic technology. I'm beyond grateful for having found this because it takes every single protocol I do here and allows the person to take fewer supplements and move energy through their acupuncture meridian system, which is like your electrical system. So when you start moving energy through that system, it takes things to another level. 

[0:19:42.9] Ashley James: You talked about light and heat that activate the patches. So I started digging into the science. I said this before on the podcast; I am an open-minded skeptic. I'm a huge skeptic, but I'm also equally as open-minded. I feel like I should go in and try new things. I thought everyone did this. Have you ever had the experience where you thought everyone thought the way you think until you meet someone that thinks so opposite you? You think that this is just normal human behavior. And then, like, oh wait, no. This is a gift. This is my unique gift; maybe a lot of people do it, but many people don’t. 

So, I have a family member who never wants to try new things. She wants to go to the same restaurant. She never wants to go to a new restaurant and only orders one thing off the menu. The first thing she's ordered the first time she goes, she will never deviate. She hates change. I am the opposite. I will never order the same thing twice on the menu. I also don’t want to go to the same restaurant. I’m just using it as an example; I try not to eat out. I love trying new things. Instead, I'd try something new that may disappoint me, then stick with the same thing all the time. For me, that's learning and growing. And of course, if something works, like I make a delicious salad, I will repeat that delicious salad. Of course, I’m going to do that. So if something works with me, like there are a few supplements that changed my life twelve years ago; I'm still taking them. I'm not going to stop just because I want to try something new. If something works, I'm going to keep it. I love trying new things, but I'm also skeptical about new things, so that I will use my critical thinking. Anything to do with patches, I've been skeptical. It was introduced to me a few years ago about these nutritional patches that promise you that you can get all your vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and all your fatty acids or mega fatty acids from putting a patch on your body, and your body would absorb everything. And I'm looking at you like, okay, so you're telling me that my body will get something that should be like a handful of things, right? And it's going to fit on a tiny sticker, and you're putting it on my body. So I've been very skeptical because there's been a lot of patch companies out there that have said that they are nutritional patches. That's why I've been very unsure about that. Although I believe we can absorb certain nutrients through the skin, like transdermal magnesium. It’s amazing. We can absorb certain nutrients that go through the skin. Absolutely. 

And then you and I have been friends on Facebook since you came to the show. I've loved everything you've shared. Back last February, almost a year ago, you shared some science about these patches helping people with stenosis and spine issues like the degeneration of the spine and the disks, and how there was science to show and that there have been studies that people are regrowing bone density and healthier bones. Their pain is going away, like things like that. I had two friends with stenosis, and I said, give me that information. I want to share it with them. So I started to look into this. Then life got busy, and I kept going and didn’t think about it. 

And then, a few months ago, my son was very hyper when sitting down and doing some homeschooling. He's free-range, like how a boy should be. He'd instead climb a tree than sit and read a book. Is there anything we can do to calm his nervous system enough to concentrate? We do not feed him sugar, and he acts like we do. He eats a very clean, safe, and healthy diet. I was trying some homeopathy and acupuncture. Everything helps a little bit. I noticed a slight improvement here and there. It's just a seven-year-old boy, and getting him to sit down for a few hours and focus on stuff he’s interested in isn't necessarily fun. But I was getting frustrated, like, is there anything we can do to calm his nervous system? 

Since our daughter died, I have been doing a lot better. But I noticed for my nervous system, it's much easier to be frazzled, to a point where I would get overstimulated quickly. This is part of healing from post-traumatic stress, and I would feel like my nervous system is just shot. Have you ever had that experience? Like, I need to lie in a dark room without noise. I don't want anyone to bother me for fifteen minutes. I need a break. So I never had that before. I'm an extrovert; I want to be with stimulus. I love stimulus, but the last few years have been difficult, coupled with trying to get a kid to calm down. He's enough stimulus as it is. 

So I reached out to Trina because she had been posting some really interesting information about this technology, and I said, hey, could this help a kid to calm down and concentrate? She says, “Oh honey, boy, I have some cool stuff for you!”

Plus, our son has allergies, and we need to understand where they came from. Maybe it's mold exposure because we did have a moldy bathroom, and he did grow up with a moldy bathroom. We didn’t know it until we did that interview 156. But he grew up as a baby and a toddler with mold exposure. That could be the cause of his allergies and asthma, which we have under control. 

But I was talking to Trina about this stuff, and other things started to come up. Like, well, I have this other family member with these problems. No matter what we do, she can't sleep; she has insomnia all night. But she has to nap all day long. It's just like flipped. She has constant worry, and she's unmotivated. Her hands are shaking. She's got all these different issues. My husband and I started listing all the things he wants to heal. And then, I started listing all the things I'd love to improve in these areas of my life. 

And so Trina’s like, let's get you on these specific protocols. So I'm like, let's do it. So let's try it and see how it goes because they have a bit of a money-back guarantee. So let's try and see how it goes. 

Our shipment comes, and this is just at the end of November and the beginning of December. That day that our package arrived was perfect timing. I look back, and I always think God lightens things up perfectly to have these experiences to learn from. That particular day, my nervous system was so fried. This happens once every three or four months, which could have been better. Our son was hyper and loud, and then my husband was loud, or whatever was happening. I told both of them I needed to lie down for fifteen minutes. I don’t want anyone to talk to me. And, of course, they did not listen to me. They were following me into the bedroom. I’m like, leave me alone. I need a few minutes to lie down. My nervous system is very fried right now. So please, I just need to reset. So they finally left me alone. I was lying down doing some breathing, just like, what is going on? Why am I so on edge? It’s almost like PMS when you feel like you're on edge. So that's precisely what I felt. 

So then our package came, and we got on a video call with Trina. I'm like, this is where I'm at right now. I am really on edge. My nervous system is fried. I feel pressure and tension in my body. And Trina goes, okay, you're going to make a hat. So we got a baseball hat and stuck the patches in specific places for the head. And my husband put the hat on my head, and it felt like you grabbed the knob in my brain and turned it down 75%. I'm like, what just happened? I felt everything come down like you just turned all the knobs down. Within about three minutes, I said I felt out of my body. I'm feeling very calm. I’ve become the third person, observing myself, feeling relaxed, and that pressure is gone. My nervous system’s not fried. I'm not as frustrated. I was 500% frustrated before you put on the hat, and it all came down. Then I can hear my son and my husband. I could tolerate their presence, whereas I couldn't before. For me, that's part of the healing with whatever residual is going on from post-traumatic stress, which, as I said, I've been getting better and better. I had been the worst it had been in a long time. And so putting on that hat was like me showing you contrast within minutes. I could not believe it, but I felt it right away. That was a good experience, but I’m not 100% sold. Let's try a few other things. And we did try a few other things. 

My husband loves them. He will not go a day without them. He loved them. So the day his dad died last April, my husband has been doing hospice care. He moved out of our house and moved in with his parents and lived beside his dad, doing 24-hour hospice care for five months. He got interrupted sleep and wasn't eating great. I kept coming over and trying to cook for him and stuff. He was just not in a great position, throughout his neck or whatever he did. 

My husband had to go in for an emergency root canal on the day his dad died. However, they had his neck in the root canal for like seven hours. It was crazy. Whatever they did caused him to have daily, almost migraine-level headaches. I'd touch his upper trapezius muscles, and they would be hard as a rock. It would radiate pain up into his head and eyes. It’s a typical upper trapezius trigger point headache. It would be debilitating. He'd have to lie down and couldn't function. So we went to the chiropractor. There were several chiropractors we went to. We went to acupuncturists. We did craniosacral therapy. We did intercession with prayer work and laying of hands. We did emotional work. Everything helped a little bit. He took anti-inflammatory supplements. I did a massage. We would do heat. Everything would work a little bit, and then it would come back. He went from daily headaches to once every second day, but it was like clockwork. Oh, today's a day I'm getting a headache. Tomorrow I won't have a headache. The next day, I will have it again. We just knew it, and then it went once every three days.

And then we got to the point we were doing all these therapies, that it would be six days with no pain and the seventh day with pain. And they would come back again. The headache has been three times this week, and it might be two in the next week. But it was consistent from April to December when we got these patches. We made a little progress with all these therapies, throwing everything at him. I even listed everything we threw at him, but he still had them. 

So, we get these patches and do the pain protocol. There's a patch for decreasing inflammation and patches for pain, and we put them on. And by the way, he stopped taking drugs like Advil and Tylenol. So every drug you could think of, he tried. I don't like taking pain meds, but he was in so much pain, he just needed some relief, and no pain meds touched the pain. That was bizarre. It wouldn't make it go away. So he just stopped taking them. He's like, well, the pain meds don't work. So I'm going to have to deal with it. But we kept being in action, trying to get rid of this headache. 

So as I said, we got these patches. His shoulders get increasingly tense, and he can feel the headache coming on. So we put the patches on, and he said, within minutes, he felt like he took Advil, but it worked; it kicked in. It feels as if he had taken pain meds, which were supposed to take away the pain. So we would put them in a specific pattern on his upper traps, and we played around with their placement of them. These patches would reduce the pain significantly within five to six minutes of having them on. Sometimes, if he did it soon enough, like at the beginning of a headache, it would just feel like it wouldn't manifest. 

[0:33:14.4] Trina Hammack: Wow. 

[0:33:15.4] Ashley James: And he's been doing that. He doesn't do the pain patches every day. He does the patches for increasing stem cells and decreasing inflammation, having energy flow correctly, like you said, through the body and the meridians. He's doing the patches that stimulate the body's ability to heal itself. His headaches have stopped. 

So I'm trying to think back to his last headache. It's been a few weeks since he said, oh, I feel like one is coming. This was about three weeks ago, right before Christmas. He put the pain patches on, and it was gone. So he hasn’t had one fully manifest in many weeks. But, as I said, it was daily, then weekly, and multiple times a week. Sometimes we would go six days without one, but that was rare. It was like two, three, four times a week. And these patches have been the single most effective way of getting rid of it.

The second thing with him was making repetitive motions involving his foot, which would hurt. What's funny is my husband, and I usually get the same problem. So he broke his foot, and I had a different injury that hurt my foot. But he’s like, I'm going to try these patches on my feet. So we looked up the protocol because, as you said, there are over eighty specific protocols. So we looked up the protocol, he did it, and he said, I didn't think I'd be able to walk. Today was so painful. And within minutes of putting it on, he's like, I can walk. This is amazing! 

And then I hurt my foot. You could see the inflammation on my foot. This was two days before the Christmas concert. I'm in the choir, and we were going to sing. We were doing a huge Christmas concert for over a thousand people. I was going to be standing for hours. They took our seats, so we had to stand the whole time. I was terrified. My foot is inflamed, and it's excruciating. I'm not going to be able to do this. Then the day before the Christmas concert, we were doing a full-day practice, so I had to stand for two days.

So, I put these patches on to decrease inflammation and pain. You know the feeling when you had an injury, but it was like two or three weeks ago, and it's just a little achy, but it's getting better. That’s the feeling I got after a few minutes of putting them on. This stuff is fantastic. It’s amazing! I rarely have injuries or pain, so I don't often need to use something for pain. But that was, for me, incredible. I also put patches on my back because I just wanted to ensure that I didn't have any back stiffness from standing for two days straight in a restricted place in the choir. I was able to stand, and I had abundant energy. I was able to do the whole thing. I thought I’d be shot because standing and performing for two days is exhausting. Afterward, I was like, hey, let's go out. Let's take the kids out to the play area. Let’s do this, let’s do that. I didn't even want to go home afterward. I just had so much energy for the rest of the day. So that’s what this has helped me with. It has helped me with this abundance of endurance, even beyond what I get from supplements and all these other things. 

So then, I woke up with a headache. When you wake up, you're just like, ” Oh, I slept wrong. I barely get headaches, but I'm like, hey if this is working for Duffy, my husband, I'm going to try it for myself. The headache was getting worse and worse, so I finally put the patches on. It was around noon, and I had a playdate to take our son and other kids to the park. I don’t even know if I can handle a car full of kids, driving them for twenty minutes to a park. You don't want a headache and a bunch of kids screaming in a car, yelling, singing, or whatever. They’re not going to be quiet. So that’s one thing we know they’re not going to do. 

So I put the patches, just like I've been doing on my husband for his headaches. So I put them on, and within a minute, it felt like I had taken drugs like Advil or something. It felt like something had kicked in. As I'm driving to the park, I notice the headache is gone, but the tension’s not gone. All I'm feeling is a lot of tension in my shoulders, but there's no pain anymore. By the time we left the park to come back home, the tension was gone. And I was like, this is so cool. So I've had to experience it personally where the pain is gone away. My husband's chronic headache is significantly better; he hasn't had one in weeks. 

Then our close family member went from feeling distressed, worried, and afraid daily. She's on multiple medications for it. She's just feeling overwhelmed with dread. She doesn't sleep at night but naps all the time during the day. So with this family member, I was like, let's patch you up. So we did the protocol for anxiety, and she felt calm, and the worry subsided. We've done the protocols for balancing the vagus nerve, and she functions better throughout the day. We did the protocol for sleep, and then we did the protocol for energy. She typically naps after every activity. She'll go grocery shopping and take a nap. Then she’ll clean the house and take a nap. She naps all day long. We will visit her, and then she'll be like, I did lie down and took a nap. So it's just been nap, nap, nap. This last week, she had a lot to do, and we're going to do the patches for adrenal function and increasing energy in the body and the flow of energy in the body. So we do this. The entire day, she did a bunch of stuff with no naps. She's sleeping better, and she's waking up happier. There are fewer occurrences of feeling dread and worried. It’s far less, and she's generally in a much better mood.

Then we're watching her because of this, and she’s starting to make better choices for herself and no longer wants to drink alcohol. She wants to actually go out and socialize and wants to go to exercise classes or be with friends. We're just starting. Because it shifted her mood, she's making these progressively better choices for herself, and we've seen this.

For our son, we put the hat on him, but he keeps it on for only a short time. I asked him, what do you feel when you have this on you? He goes, this is my idea hat. It gives me so many ideas. My mind is filled with these amazing ideas. I want to draw and create. So he calls it his idea hat. But we do keep it on him a bit. Although he is fantastic at schoolwork, we noticed he could sit down and do more math. And that was a thing for me; if I could get him to sit down and complete his math work, that's his least favorite thing to do, although he's good at it. He could go from doing one or two pages of math work in an hour to six to nine pages in an hour. The math work only gets more challenging and not easier. So I see on several levels that it is working. 

A friend of mine's stepfather is on daily dialysis, and they did some blood tests to see his stem cells. I'm not sure why; I will get more information about it. But she said he's been using the patches and seeing great results. He’s been wearing the patch that increases stem cells in the body. So I have a few friends who have been using them all, noticing more energy, getting better sleep, and generally functioning better. But I love that I have more stamina, and I generally feel like I'm in a better mood, and my nervous system feels like it's healed. It feels like it's functioning better. I haven't had any more occurrences of PTSD since starting to use it, and that's been over a month that I've been using them. 

[0:41:50.2] Trisha Hammack: I have the biggest smile on my face hearing your stories. I think it’s incredible. It's just so wonderful to restore your health and see results quickly. 

[0:42:04.2] Ashley James: This morning, I put on a new patch that I've never tried before. We just got it in the mail, and it's for mood enhancement. I wasn't in a bad mood, but I'm like, hey, give me the new batch. I want to see what it does. So all of us, even our son, is like, I want to try. We all woke up in a good mood. It's a Saturday morning, and we all feel great. But I want to try it. 

I guess I’m sensitive to energy, and I feel things. Some people would call this a placebo effect, but I did not believe so. I love trying new things because I'm also so skeptical. I don't think that they're going to work or not work. So I don't know if it's going to work. I even said to Duffy as he handed it to me, I'm in a good mood, and I don't even know if this will do anything. So I put it on, and almost immediately, I go, wow, I can feel a lightness. I feel this lightness in me that feels nice. 

Because we eat fruit or something for breakfast, I’ve gotten into the habit of every morning, before, during, or after breakfast, where we'll just be sitting on the couch with our son doing English work, and reading together. We just get it done. Let's get some schoolwork out of the way before we start our day. We're sitting there and both in such a good mood together. I’m not saying that we aren't usually, but it was just, wow! This is the mood enhancer one, and it is neat. So I'm wearing it today for the first time and experiencing it, and I'm looking forward to trying it out with some other friends and seeing how they like this one. 

But what I liked were the protocols. I have talked to several friends doing these patches for a while. They weren't taught because they're not part of this group that has these proprietary protocols of over eighty different protocols that combine Chinese medicine, acupuncture points, and where you put the patches. And I have played around with them, and it makes a big difference where you put them. 

You talked about how they are activated. And when I looked into the science, I was like, am I absorbing anything? What's going on? Why is this working? Why is it working through hair? You put the patches on a hat. Why is it working through hair? The body emits light. We can't see the light spectrum, but specific cameras, like night vision cameras, can pick up this light. Our body emits a light wave, and the patches are designed to bounce back this light wave back into the body at a specific frequency, stimulating the body to create these new peptides and new stem cells. It naturally triggers the body, which is called photon light therapy. And that's precisely what it does, so you’re not absorbing anything. 

You wear them for twelve hours, and most of the time when you're wearing them, people don't see them because they're under your clothes. So I'm okay with wearing them where people can see them because I'm getting results. Then I’ve had people go, oh, what’s that? I say it’s like acupuncture. And I start talking about it, and they’re super interested. So I loved that. Most of the time, people don't even see them because they’re on your back, under your belly button, or on your shoulder, so they don't see it. 

So do you want to talk more about the science behind it? Because, yes, it was designed originally for the military. It's been around for twenty years, and people have had phenomenal results. I love that this company has invested so much money into science. There's proof that this increases bone density, health, and muscle mass. 

Oh, I've got one more testimonial. So ever since my last pregnancy, I've had a problem where my right leg is far weaker than my left leg. I've gone two months with physical therapy, weekly chiropractic, and acupuncture. I've been throwing everything at this. I thought going to the weekly physical therapy, and all the exercises they give me would fix it. Every doctor I visited said, “Oh yeah, this is because this is pinching this nerve. You have to stretch this out and strengthen this.” And I've been doing it all. But we live in a two-story townhouse, and walking up the stairs, I've been taking it one leg at a time. Because this leg is so weak, I just thought it was bizarre, but it’s ever since the injury from that pregnancy. Sometimes, it'll take me a few minutes to get up because I'm just going to force myself to use the weak leg to strengthen it. It’s like the signals from the brain are not getting to the muscles. Something's not working right. I don't know. Is it weak muscles? Is it an impinged blood supply? 

Every doctor had a different explanation. And it’s not that big of a deal. I don't have pain from it. It's just more of an annoyance because every time I walk up the stairs multiple times a day, it reminds me that something is not whole in my body. That brings on thoughts of shame and guilt, like, what am I doing wrong? Like, I’m such a healthy person. What's going on? I need to work harder on this. Walking up and down the stairs has been a struggle. 

A week after wearing these patches, we were doing a bunch of laundry, and I remember we had the music on. We were all in high gear, like, let’s clean the house. And I ran up the stairs. I get to the top landing and like, what just happened? I just noticed that the weakness in the leg was gone. This reminds me of the time when I went from being super weak with both my legs to having the energy signals get to the muscles. The muscles are working. This is great. Ever since I started wearing these patches, I've noticed that I can run up and down the stairs and that weakness in the right leg is not there like it was. As I said, it was so bad that I had to take one step at a time. So that’s my other testimonial. They have hundreds of studies on increased muscle mass and increased bone density. So there are effects of anti-aging, looking younger and better. 

I just realized I'm doing all the talking. I need to end the talking, but I'm just excited. I've waited over a month to share this with the listeners. I'm going to stop talking. Tell us more about the science behind it. 

[0:48:52.0] Trina Hammack: I taught science way back in the day, so I love that this is backed by real science. A research study is on increasing glutathione levels in the body or hormones or strengthening your DNA. There is study after study that backs this up. You can't deny it when you also bring in experiences like this and see it happen before your eyes. What was going on with all the examples you gave was that there were blockages in the acupuncture meridian flow. You open that flow back up, and then energy could move. So then you felt better, the pain went away, and brain function returned.

The website has studies about osteoarthritis and double-blind placebo pain relief studies. The studies continue, and David Schmidt is entirely dedicated to having this backed by true science. 

So you know, we are emitting infrared light. You can't see it, but it's there and activates this crystalline structure inside the patch, which has amino acids and certain frequencies of peptides. I look at it like a frequency device, like my frequency-specific microcurrent, my BEMER, or my SCIO. It’s a frequency type of medicine that you can do at home. You don't need to have fancy schmancy equipment. You can slap a patch on it and feel how things shift as the energy opens up in the body. 

Many people are chronically ill because their energy is running backwards through their bodies, and they don't even know it. It would be like the equivalent of the electricity going backward through your house and blowing out your fuse box. And when you're in a chronic situation like I was when we were moldy, you couldn't quite snap out of it. This helps correct the flow, so it moves in the right direction. And we have a system that you know about now, where we check that energetic flow. We can check to see if it's running backwards or not, and then we can correct it with a specific correcting polarity patching protocol. 

I learned about this one the hard way. We were up at our house in Mount Shasta a few years ago, and it was in the summer, and our AC system went out upstairs. Downstairs was okay, but upstairs went out, and it was 115 degrees. I went into vertigo for three days, and literally I didn't know about polarity and that I could change it with a patch. I had just started using the patches. And so, for three days, I'm lying in bed. What do I do? And then, I reached out to a senior practitioner or the one who writes all our protocols, by the way. She's a master at this and said your polarity is backward. And so she had me do this simple protocol with five patches I put on for fifteen minutes, and then guess what? Boom! It was gone. My vertigo was gone after three days. It’s because the heat triggered my nervous system to go into overload, and my energy started running backward, so I had vertigo. It was incredible.

So now I teach all my people, as I taught you, how to check and correct their polarity and then re-train the body so that the energetics run the right way through your system and your meridian and open up blockages. When you got pain, you get a blockage. We can open that up and get things moving again. So we go through a little process of opening up and correcting the polarity, and then we start building a foundation, get the brain function going, and get your adrenals and kidneys stronger. You can see inflammation go down. The adrenals help to keep the inflammation down. Mine were trashed, and my kidneys from mold. And a lot of moldies have really poor energy. The first one I ever did was an adrenal kidney protocol, and I felt better. 

[0:53:48.6] Ashley James: I love that protocol. 

[0:53:50.3] Trina Hammack: Isn’t it amazing? 

[0:53:51.2] Ashley James: I love it, yes. I didn't want to do the polarity thing. I don’t want to jump right into that. I did the polarity thing because you told me to. I don't know why; maybe it’s my intuition, but I was super excited and totally drawn to the kidney adrenal protocol. I can’t wait to do that one. And then there's the other one I really want to jump into, which is the metabolism one that increases muscle mass, supports the body, burns fat, increases energy, and increases leg muscle mass. So I really want to get to that one. But you told me there's an order to things. We want to ensure that we’re getting the polarity together and the energy up in the body, like the adrenals. So we want to ensure that the body’s detoxification pathways are open. And you can get to this other fun one. 

So I have gone through the steps. I'm glad I listened to you because I felt a shift and difference each step of the way. But I love that energy one. And now, I like doing the advanced energy protocol one, and I get even more to that one. 

[0:55:00.9] Trina Hammack: Yeah. 

[0:55:01.8] Ashley James: I feel it. As I said, I survived two days of standing and singing with that one. We've been a very professional choir, and it was intense. It was like doing a marathon for singing, and I could not believe I was like, go, go, go. I felt so great. Even the next day, I didn’t feel like I was thrashed. I didn’t feel like I’d been through something big. I was like, okay, another day. I was expecting to feel trashed from being so active. Being onstage, singing, and standing for hours to perform in front of a thousand people, takes a lot out of you to give it your all. I was expecting to be trashed. I did that protocol and felt amazing the next day, the next day, and the next. It didn't even affect me.   

Oh, one more thing. I keep thinking of testimonials. We did a really intense walk around Greenlake. It was 2.8 miles. My butt was burning because I was trying to keep up with my husband. My husband is almost 6 ft 7 with very long legs. One stride of his is a one-half stride of mine, so I was keeping up with him. Our son was on a scooter, so we were trying to keep up with him because if we didn't, he would be chasing the ducks in the lake any second. Oh my gosh, it’s like having a golden retriever. We take him to the park, and I look at all the people with their pets. Our son is intelligent, loving, and smart, and people often think he's ten or eleven years old just because he's so mature. But you bring him to a park with a bunch of dogs, a ton of ducks, and a shallow lake, and he wants to go chase. It was January, and it was cold, and he asked me, did you bring my towel? It seemed to me he was going swimming. I'm like, sweetie, you can't go in the lake. No! So he is off chasing the ducks, petting the dogs, and running down the dock. There are several docks. He thinks he's going to go swimming. So we had to keep up with him. So we're like pumping our legs, which is a great exercise. It's like the car right in front of you, but it’s us chasing our son for 2.8 miles. My butt was burning. You know that feeling when it is like you’re anaerobic and making lactic acid? 

[0:57:31.6] Trina Hammack: Oh, yeah.

[0:57:32.5] Ashley James: And we were go, go, go, go. And then I thought I would feel this the next day. Then the next day happened, and this was just this week, but I didn't feel it. I thought for sure I was going to feel soreness or something. Then I’m like, sometimes it’s not the next day, but the day after. And the day after was Thursday. I thought, for sure, I was going to wake up feeling sore on Thursday. I woke up on Thursday, and no problem. I'm like, what? I don't even feel that I walked. I was doing 2.8 miles around this lake, chasing our son, and I didn't even feel it. That was huge because, before these patches, I'd go to the gym and feel it. At least you’d feel like you did something the next day. I didn't even feel like I pushed myself. I'm going to have to force myself harder. So I know I am doing all these other things, like eating healthy, taking supplements, and doing everything, but I would still feel sore after a workout even with all these good things I'm doing. Since I started patches, I don't feel sore after a workout. There you are; that's another thing I just realized that was different. 

[0:58:41.7] Trina Hammack: I’ve got another one for you. My husband had two wisdom teeth and a molar taken out 48 hours ago, and in under 24 hours, all his pain and inflammation were gone with just patching. You can't even tell; it's just incredible. He slept off the anesthesia, and then we had him all patched up. There was no inflammation or pain. He'll heal a million times faster. It’s pretty incredible.

[0:59:20.2] Ashley James: I love that. Do you have any other stories of success from your clients? I remember that there was a baby I saw. I know you have this private Facebook group for listeners; if you want to try these patches, you might do it. We can get you on that. We could add you to the Facebook group. But there is a woman who had a baby with teething, and she took before and after pictures. She said it was four minutes. And she put the patches on the baby’s jaw for pain and to calm the nervous system. The baby went from full-on freak out from teething to sleeping in four minutes of wearing the patches. So to hear that your husband has no pain inflammation and feels great…

[1:00:08.6] Trina Hammack: Three teeth were extracted. It was intense, and we didn't take any pain meds. We just patched it. But I have one gal come in, and she had neuropathy in her thighs from chemo, and she was bone on bone in her hips, and she would wear these tiny high heels or these tall high heels that were skinny. And I’m like, how do you do that? She was in constant pain in her hips, and her thighs were on fire with pain from the chemo. And so she came in and didn't know how to patch yet. That's why she brought her patches over, and I patched her thighs. And the next thing I know, she's standing up and down, no problem. She had a hard time sitting in her chair; the next thing you know, she was up, down, up, down. Like, hey, how are you doing? Oh, I'm great! And she didn't even think twice because the pain was gone and just disappeared. So we opened the channels and got the energy to move, so it wasn't stagnant and moving backward.

Another gal called me, and she had patches. She called me freaking out with major panic attacks and anxiety and said, I don't know what to do. She couldn't even think. So I had her do the anxiety protocol on the wrist, and we got two of them placed on the phone. They're six, and we only had two on, and she said, hey, can I already be feeling better? She was already calm with two of the six patches. They can work that fast. I've seen swollen ankles. I still do Rolfing bodywork, and people will come in with sprained ankles. I'll pop a patch on there, and you'll watch the inflammation go down. And you can see the ring where the inflammation was in a matter of minutes and then where it is now. You're getting things to flow, and I see it every day; we use them. We have an excellent protocol for people in our weight loss program to help them burn more fat. Studies show that the energy patches can increase your fat burning by 23%. Hey, who wouldn't want that? We incorporate them into almost every protocol, whether people are moldy, have anxiety, or have a lot of GI issues. We’ve even seen parasites come out.

[1:02:47.1] Ashley James: I’ve got another one for you. I just remembered. Okay, so my husband is a trooper for tagging along with all my health stuff. But he's also a guy. We have this joke because he'll do something like your stereotypical man, and I'm like, why did you do that? He's like, a was being a typical man. He kind of like that he’s got a cape on. When I met him, he didn't have fat on his body. But he always looked like Bart Simpson. He would have that big, bloated gut. But he is so tall that you don't see it. He's always got this nine-month pregnant gut, despite not being overweight. And he's changed his diet throughout the years, which was at first like pulling teeth. He had an addiction to dairy. Who wants to give up cheese? But he did, and then he saw the results. He stopped being gassy. He's like, woah, that's amazing. He gave up gluten. He lost 25 pounds of water weight. He’s like, wow, I feel so much better, so I’m not going to diet anymore. So one at a time, we took away sugar. That was the first thing we took away from him. 

When he met me, I got him off alcohol, and he was an alcoholic. I don't have any alcohol in the house. I'm an oddity. I just think alcohol is poison. If you're going to drink, just maybe once a year. So it was alcohol and sugar. Caffeine is kind of an on-and-off thing for him. He's like, give me this one thing, okay. It’s just one pleasure that I have left. So we've taken away everything gluten and dairy. He got progressively healthier with his choices, like adding more vegetables. And it's funny because he got really upset with me the other day because I added more vegetables to his meal, and he's like, what are you doing in my dinner? I look at him, and I’m like, you are vegan. He's chosen to be vegan. Vegetables are the only food you have. So why are you angry at me? A few minutes later, he says this tastes pretty good. But he doesn't love eating all the vegetables. Like, he's still a guy, so he just wanted to have his beans and make it taste like a taco; you still want him to eat that.

But we know he's had some gut issues, and we had him tested for SIBO, and things like that, for small intestine bacterial overgrowth. I just suspected candida for a long time. I interviewed an amazing doctor on candida, Dr. Michael Biamonte. So Duffy decided to work with him and his telemedicine. He decided to do the Candida diet even though he's vegan. So this is eating non-starchy vegetables. That's his life right now, and he's doing it. So he stopped eating all the foods that bloat him. So he's doing this Candida thing. But right before he started on this, he would eat like four bowls of rice or something starchy like a bowl of rice and beans or potatoes. His gut would be hard as a rock, and you could knock on it. It would be hard, and he’d be just so uncomfortable. And it's all gas and inflammation in there. Even though he's eating organic, clean whole foods, it was still feeding the candida, and we had him tested by Dr. Michael Biamonte. Sure enough, it was just tons of overgrowth of candida that's been the problem. But right before he got on the Candida Diet, he ate a bunch of rice, and of course, he was totally bloated.

I've been studying the patching protocols. As you said, our group has over eighty patching protocols, and I've been studying them. I said, hey, there's a gut health one, and he goes, I'm going to try that tomorrow. He got super excited. Now we know, like clockwork, if he eats four bowls of brown rice, he will be hard as a rock bloated the whole day. It's not like there’s a day he eats rice and isn't bloated; it's every time. So he puts the patches around his bloated stomach. Another thing, we never hear any noise from his stomach, like gurgling or anything. We usually don't hear anything yet, which is surprising because it looks like it's just full of air. And you start to hear the stomach making noise after putting the patch. It has lots of gurgling like something's moving, and we're like, what's up with that? And then he's, like, I will eat the same stuff I did yesterday and see if I react. He's so excited, and he’d go to the kitchen, like, let's do some science experiments. And he eats the same food he ate the day before, and his stomach stays soft. It didn't bloat, and he got super excited. 

Now, he's in the middle of his candida protocol. He’s doing well and not bloated. Of course, he's not using the foods feeding the candida, and he's been taking all the supplements that kill candida that strip the biofilm out of his body. But he's been doing the gut healing protocol, which he felt the difference. And he loves the energy protocol. He loves the anxiety and sleep protocol, and there's one for the pineal gland. So he walks around with the patch on his forehead, like, no shame. And he loves sleeping with that one. He's having so much fun with it. As a man, he does not look pleased and said I took them away. But I have shown him the information; he says I can't drink alcohol after knowing what it does to my body. And I can't eat sugar after knowing what it does to my body, or milk or something like that. I can't do these things to myself. So he's chosen to eat healthier and healthier, taking away all these bad choices in his life. Now, he’s just loving it. I've never seen him more excited with two things — the patches and structured water we've been using. Those are the two things he's super passionate about, and I've never seen him take it off. I think if you give someone like a family member, even a husband who doesn't like to do health stuff, and you provide them with a result, like, let's take away a headache, let's give you more energy. Let's give you better sleep. If you do that by just putting some patches on them, they get excited about it and want to keep doing it. And it's an easy shift. 

So like I said, our family member, who we've been giving these patches, started feeling so good. She started making better choices for herself. That's motivating because we love our family so much, but we can't make them do healthy things as much as we want to. But if they are feeling better and better, sometimes they make better choices for themselves.

[1:09:55.6] Trina Hammack: Yes, they want to and may not even understand why. But it makes you want to strive to improve and make better choices. I see it all the time, yeah. My husband patches, and he's bone on bone on his knee, and he's a golf marshal. So he's in there on the golf course all day long and in zero pain. So yes, there's got to be something going on here. They recently came out with these two aromatherapy mists, which have been shown clinically to raise testosterone levels. 

[1:09:55.6] Ashley James: What?

[1:10:36.3] Trina Hammack: Yeah, and guess what? You said earlier that the base is structured water, herbs, and some essential oils, which you spray on your wrist. There's one at night, and you breathe in seven or eight times. I thought I was sleeping well, and I was, but when I started using the one before bed, it took my sleep to a deeper level, and now I have more lucid dreams. It’s pretty cool. So I thought I was at the top of my game with my sleep; now, it's even better. I can't wait to go to sleep because it's just amazing. So yeah, we have some great tools at our fingertips, and I love sharing these. 

[1:11:26.8] Ashley James: I'm not a vain person. I only wear makeup when I have to, and the makeup I have is clean, with no toxic makeup. I can't cry with this mascara because mascara’s made of tree bark; I don't know what. But when I wear makeup, it's clean, non-toxic makeup. I'm very picky, but I only wear it if I have to. I don't even like washing my face. I just rinse it with water. I don't like disrupting the microbiome of my body. Some people use soap on their face twice a day, or cleansers and stuff like that. You're just stripping the body of the oils. 

I grew up being a tomgirl, like a real nature-crunchy person. And I believe in letting natural beauty shine through. So when I look in the mirror, I don't want to see a bunch of wrinkles. I'm in my forties and don't want to look like I'm in my 50s. So when I'm in my fifties, I want to look like I'm in my 40s. I want to keep protecting the skin, so I'm 5% vain. But when I look in the mirror, I know my health shines through in my skin. And I want to have clear, beautiful skin. So I like feeling moist skin, especially in the winter when it's really dry. I like putting moisturizer on. 

I found it hard to get good-quality moisturizers because I'm very picky with ingredients. There are only a handful of companies that I trust, and I've tried. They did come out with this one, and I always ask, why wouldn't a health company come out with a face cream? I'm like, why? Why don't you guys do that? You guys are not in the beauty business. You're in the healing business. So when are you coming in with face cream? And I have seen this with other holistic companies; they do this. So why are you guys not doing this? And then I tried the cream, and like, oh, it's because you guys got something this good. So I'm just going to try the cream because I saw some testimonials, and one was a video testimonial of a gorgeous woman. By the way, she has no makeup on, and her skin is amazing. And then she says her age is seventy-five. I'm like, what? She's been using this like forever, and she looks like she might be in her fifties. She's gorgeous, and you would not believe that she's seventy-five. Like, okay, fine, I'll give this a try. And the cream works in conjunction with a patch that stimulates the collagen and elastin and stimulates the skin to hold more water, be moister, and have fewer fine lines and wrinkles. But just structurally, on a cellular level, be healthier. There's a day cream and night cream, and I tried it out. I am in love with the smell of it. First of all, it's great and very hydrating. It's not oily. But I'm in love with the scent. It's just like five different essential oils, and it's very light. You can't smell it if it's on someone five feet away from you. It's not like perfume. It's just like a hint of essential oils.

So my husband comes up to kiss me and asks, what is that smell? And he starts muzzling me and kissing me all over. He was, what is that smell? We’ve been married for almost 15 years, and this is the first time I've ever worn an aphrodisiac. He loves that. I have to put it on now because he comes to bed, and he's like, oh, you're wearing it, and he smiles at me. Whatever blend of essential oils it is, it is an aphrodisiac, and I love it too. It smells like maybe a little bit of Rosemary and vanilla, and there's this hint of orange. I can't quite place it. But it's not like this artificial smell, which I'm so thankful for because I don't put artificial fragrances on my body. It just smells like nature, though it was an aphrodisiac. So there's like a little bonus. But I love how it feels on my skin, and I love the results, and I'm looking forward to fifty when I'm seventy-five.

[1:15:30.5] Trina Hammack:  Me too, I love it. It's so light, and I don't like smelly products. If it stinks, it's out. I'm not going to use it. And the patch that comes with it not only repairs skin and increases collagen. This is the only product I know that has been shown clinically in research studies to lengthen telomeres. And when you lengthen your telomeres, you are reversing the aging process. That combination is just brilliant. It's just beautiful. 

[1:16:05.1] Ashley James: Yeah, what they discovered about telomeres is that it's the length of the end of the chromosome. And they figured out that telomeres are like when you cut down a tree and see the centrifugal rings, and you can count the rings, like, how old this tree was when you killed it. When you cut it down, you can see how old it was. That's like telomeres but in reverse. So they have a certain amount of length. Then as we age, every time the cell has to split and create new cells, the telomeres shorten. And the shorter the telomere, the expiration of your life is nearer your cellular age. So you're aging greater and greater by the shortness of the telomere. So if you lengthen your telomere, you are reversing cellular age on a DNA chromosomal level. 

I've been looking into telomeres for at least ten years now, as more and more research is coming out. And I find it fascinating that there are certain foods, key nutrients in extracts, and concentrations that have effects on telomeres. But then to take this phototherapy and be able to stimulate the body, the peptides, and whatever it's doing throughout the body to increase the telomeres; that's phenomenal. You can read all the science papers, and we'll link that in the podcast's show notes. So people can see the results better, like fewer fine and wrinkles and more muscle mass. And then they can even see a DEXA scan. There are so many testimonials of people with stronger bones, that they can see it through the cellular age-reversing. They can see in the mirror, and they can see it in the labs as well. 

[1:17:50.0] Trina Hammack:  When they came out with their second stem cell activating patch, I'm like, okay, yeah, we'll see. I'm skeptical even though I've been using them and was in love with them. The second patch that came out was for strengthening your muscles and increasing stamina and strength. So I said, let's see what happens if I do a really hard spin class and how I feel afterward. I picked the most challenging class I could find on my Peloton and put both kinds of stem cell patches on. And I sailed through that class. Then I just got off the bike and carried on. I used to crawl off the bike and say, hey, sweetie, where's my shake? And I just got up and kept going. My strength, stamina, and all of that have been phenomenal for my overall health and athletic ability. It's just been amazing.

[1:18:51.6] Ashely James: Oh, you were going to teach us how to do polarity. 

[1:18:57.6] Trina Hammack: Yes, so we talked about how energy runs through the body. So I do a lot of frequency work here, correcting frequencies that are off when you're ill. Your body, organs, or glands may not be coming at the right frequency, so I'll use frequencies to correct them. Well, patches do that too. But if you're chronically ill like I was with Lyme, mold, and even ovarian cancer, my energy was running backwards. 

And there's a simple way to check to see if your polarity is backwards or if it's correct. You can do it right now. It takes about 30 seconds to do. You stand up and put your feet together so they're touching. I usually do it barefoot. And then you take your dominant hand, place it palm down a couple of inches above your head, and just close your eyes. Relax your body and breathe, and feel which way your body wants to sway. Does it want to go from the left to the right for back circles? What way does your body naturally want to go? And then once you get that, flip the palm so it faces toward the ceiling, relax and see which way your body wants to sway. For most people, their energy will be reversed and go every which way except correct. Now, with correct polarity, if your energy runs properly through your body, when you have your palm facing down above your head, you should sway forward. It may be a little sway or a big one. Once I corrected it, I sway big now. But face down with the palm, you go forward and face up with the palm, you should sway backwards. Any other combination tells you that your polarity is incorrect. 

So we use our correcting polarity protocol and follow it up with a protocol called 4 Gates that many acupuncturists use. It’s common for them to get energy moving in the right direction. You want to teach your body to move in this direction continuously. So the longer I patched, the harder it was to throw me off and to reverse my polarity. It just doesn't happen anymore. Or, as when I was sick with mold, I was reversed quite a bit and had chronic pain. So I had anxiety through the roof. So I put my patches on, and it would stop on a dime just like that. So, checking and correcting your polarity is essential to ensure you get the most out of your protocols. 

[1:21:55.6] Ashley James: You've been doing this with your clients. What do people notice when their polarities are corrected? Do they come back and tell you? 

[1:22:04.7] Trina Hammack:  They are more relaxed, have less pain, and feel more grounded and centered. They’re sleeping better. Their chronic issues are starting to shift. Like I say, it's like your electricity is running backwards to your house and blows out your fuse box and your nervous system. So this helps diffuse that static in your nervous system, making you feel calmer and more centered. You can handle the day more efficiently. It's like what you were feeling. You can see the overwhelm. You start to hold that more and more. You start holding your polarity correctly, and everything starts to be easier. Then you want to make changes, like your family member. As she starts to feel better, she starts to make better choices. You see a lot of shifts like that. And they start feeling better overall. 

[1:23:12.6] Ashley James: So, there are the skeptics. I know I've had, for example, some Christian listeners who feel weary of anything to do with energy work. I fully agree that there is evil in the world, and there's good in the world. As Christians, we've been warned not to go down this path. So, for example, don't go down the new age path because there are a lot of bad spirits if you go down this path and want to stick to a righteous path. So when we go into holistic medicine, it is a buffet. It's a free-for-all. If you are one religion, you might end up stepping into an area where you wonder if it’s a gray zone.

When it comes to energy work, although some people doubt, for example, the use of crystals, pendulums, and things like that; for some people, they're like, rock on. Others, especially Christians, and Catholics, are like, no, that sounds like contacting spirits, and I'm not into that. No way. I'm not even going to touch that with a ten-foot pole. For many people, anything to do with energy work, I'm going to say, it’s not what I'm doing because I'm nervous I might accidentally step over into the gray zone. So I want to be respectful of everyone's religious and spiritual beliefs. This energy we were talking about is not spiritual, and I am a spiritual person. I am a Christian. But I've experienced energy in my life in many capacities. This is not the spiritual energy we’re talking about. Although if you're communing with the Holy Spirit, then rock on. That's an energy I want to be part of. 

So for those who are into Reiki, that's a form of energy work. So there are all kinds of “spiritual healing” and energies. This is not what we're talking about. This is actual physical energy. You can't see it with your eyes, but it's like you look up in the sky; and I'm going to tell you that there's air current right now, like the air stream is above you. You cannot see it with your eyes, but it's there. And with specific equipment, we could test and show you that the air stream is above your head and that there's an air current. So you have energy flowing in and around your body, and there's a way to test it. 

So if you were to, God forbid, go to the ER because you have some symptoms, such as heart or brain issues, they would hook you up to machines, and these machines would read the energy signatures from your heart and your brain. So we have energy that can be picked up and read by machines in a hospital. So it's a state-of-the-art Western medicine. 

Then we have energy that flows to the body that's part of a 5000-year-old or more ancient way of healing that has been proven repeatedly to be effective in terms of acupuncture. So in traditional Chinese medicine, they've observed for thousands of years that the body has a flow in which we can see veins flowing through the body. We can see blood flowing through the body and invading our arteries. You can see lymph flow. And then this is something you can't see, but we definitely experience. Because when you go to acupuncture, and they put a needle in your wrist, you'll feel it somewhere else in your body because it's connecting. 

I have a great side story. When I was pregnant with our son, he wanted to come out feet first. He's always wanted to hit the ground running, which is his personality. And so he wanted to come out feet first, and he was facing forward. So, if you can imagine, his feet were down, and he was facing forward. He'd push his head up to my heart or push it out. But that's how he was, and he's a long kid, like 22 inches. He's a big boy inside me. He wasn't heavy. He was 70 pounds or something. He wasn't heavy, but he was long. And he was coming out feet first, and I did not want to have a C-section.  

I had a midwife that then transferred me to an OBGYN at 36 weeks. So I'm almost at 40 weeks. I'm almost at the time of delivery. And this OB is like your traditional Western medicine method. She has a drug pad in one hand. She's an OB and says you should go for acupuncture. I nearly fell off the table because I was not expecting that. And she goes, many studies show that acupuncture is very beneficial for reversing a breech pregnancy. So I found an amazing woman. Her name is Jasmine Bay. If you're in the Seattle area, she's well-known as the woman to go to if you are pregnant. She does a little family medicine, but for the most part, she does acupuncture for pregnancies. So she flips babies, basically. 

So I go down, and she puts two little needles in my ankles. I was lying on the table and propped up a bit, so I was more like sitting back on the table. And she says these points are the energy points that travel up. It's like a button on your body that travels up. The energy travels up into the uterus and tells the baby to spin the energy in the other direction. The baby feels it, and it turns. I'm looking at her like, are you kidding me? Again, I'm an open-minded skeptic. I love new things, but I'm also not believing at the same time. So when things were happening, I was like, this is so cool. I'm just sitting there believing it would work because I didn't want to have a C-section.

As I'm lying there, it's been less than 15 minutes, and our son pushes his head up like something out of an alien movie and turns halfway. And we watched it happen. He pushes up and turns. And by the time we got out of there, he had turned the rest of the way. We hadn't even reached home yet; he finished turning the rest of the way and stayed turned in the correct position. I've loved acupuncture my whole life, but that was like, are you kidding me? I was sold. 

So, when it comes to energy channels in the body, I believe they exist, and I've experienced them personally. And using these photon therapy patches and specific patterns to go along with acupuncture protocols gives you incredible and better results than if you just put the patch wherever you wanted. So even though they've done studies and shown that the patches work no matter where you put them, when you put them in conjunction with the meridian and energy points, we're seeing much more significant results in our group. 

[1:31:00.2] Trina Hammack: Yeah, that's for sure. I have everybody in my practice go into the group and learn these protocols because there's no other place to get them. This is the only group on the planet that has them. And I feel like God led me to this group, honestly, so we would have these resources to help more people. And on another side note, I had acupuncture while in labor. My acupuncturist came to the hospital. He put in two needles, and I stood up, and my water broke just like that. So I'm like, oh, thank you, David. 

So yeah, it does work. Pregnant women use these patches to help them through their pregnancy for many reasons. And those points on the ankles that your gal stimulated with the needles, we do not patch those for pregnant women because we don't want them to have the baby early. 

[1:31:58.7] Ashley James: Yeah, absolutely. It's good to work when you're using this in certain circumstances. It's good to work with someone trained in them and who studied the protocol. I've been studying the protocols; you've done it for years. And then we've access to this community of practitioners who do these protocols. And I love that this group shares testimonies. I love using the search function in the group and going through testimonial after testimonial. 

There are over fifty thousand people in this group, and they're sharing so many testimonials of success. And then people come in and ask their questions to you, like, hey, I've got this problem. What should I do? And then there's a bunch of practitioners that jump in and share what patching protocols have worked for them. So that's how I figured out how to do the foot thing. Because I was like, I don't know if I'm able to stand, and I went into the group, then I typed in the foot problem I had, which was different for my husband since it was more of an ankle. But either way, it's close enough. But for both of us, it worked. And it's the same with headaches, digestion, energy, and sleeping. So it goes on and on. So I'm very excited about this. 

Are there any of the stories you wanted to share? Was there anything else you wanted to make sure that you conveyed?

[1:33:18.1] Trina Hammack: I like to empower my people with knowledge and tools that they can do themselves. I want them to be the strongest they can be so that they can do what they need to do in their life. And this is one of the best tools you can have at your fingertips that doesn't cost you a bazillion dollars to buy, you know, a new piece of equipment or something like that. Put one little patch on sometimes, and it can change everything. It's so empowering to know that you have this knowledge, and I'm so grateful that I gave them a try because, you know, I am a healthy skeptic. And I know that every day, my health gets better and stronger, and if something comes up, I've got a tool I can use and take with me everywhere. I patch everybody. I patch everything. And that little dog this morning, just watching her eyes change when I put this patch on her, and you could see it was like she was running around for years in PTSD. So when I met her and put the patch on, it just dissolved.

[1:34:33.7] Ashley James: It does calm the nervous system. 

[1:34:37.0] Trina Hammack: Oh my God. And then I put it on the woman whose dog it was. And I watched the same thing happen to her. And everybody in the pack is going to get better that way. Do you know what I mean? So, give it a try. It's incredible. Empower yourself with this technology. There's a lot to learn, but you can also keep it simple at the same time. 

[1:35:05.9] Ashley James: Yes. So that's why I'm here. I want to help you guys. And so if anyone wants to try this, if you heard it and something resonated with you, and you want to give it a shot. First of all, I love that they have a money-back guarantee and that they stand behind it. I've worked with a handful of companies that do that, and I remember how much money I wasted on supplements and different things. And then when it didn't work out, and then it's like, there are so many companies that won't stand behind their stuff. So, when there's a company that 100% stands behind its stuff, I'm more willing to give you a try. It makes me suspicious of companies that don't stand behind their stuff 100%. So I love that. But I want to work with anyone who's listening and wants to try this. So I want you to work with me. 

 If you go to and then in the menu, you'll see Ashley James. You click on “Work with Ashley James,” then set up a 15-minute free discovery call with me, and we will chat. I will help you pick out the proper protocols for you. I'm working with Trina, and then I'll get you into that private Facebook group where you can see all the protocols. You don't have to learn it all. I'm learning it all because I work with people as a health coach. But you can go to that group and learn for yourself. Type in your issues and then try it from there. You can sign up for a free talk with me, and I'll help you get on it. 

And Trina's always here to help. Trina even said that she'd be here in any capacity. I could always message her and say, hey, I've got a listener. It's this problem. What kind of patching protocol would help based on your experience? And you've been great because there was this one time right when we got our patches at the beginning of December; I remember we were out at a Christmas party, and one of my friends was crying. She's like, I don't know why I am so depressed all day. I'm in tears. This was a beautiful happy Christmas party we hosted for our homeschooled kids, and the kids had so much fun, and she couldn't stop crying. So I pulled her aside, and we sat down together. I was a shoulder for her and listened to her. There was so much going on for her. I guess it's because her family ostracized her and had a big fight with her extended family. So I messaged Trina, and I'm like, okay, I've got a mom that can't stop crying. What should I do? And you're like, take a deep breath. It's going to be okay. I know; I'm just so excited.

So we put the patches on for the vasovagal, for the vagus response to calm the nervous system. And this was right at the end of the party, so we were out in the parking lot. I put it on her, and I said okay. I hugged her and said, “Okay, you let me know how this works for you. She messaged me, and she goes, it's all gone. She goes, I don't know what came over me. I couldn't stop crying all day long and was so overwhelmed by sadness. After I put on the patches, it was just like she was back to her usual self. She's like, yeah, I feel like that's all gone. And she's been in a much better space since then.

I want to use them too, progressively, as I work through and heal things, grow, and get healthier and healthier. But it's also cool to have something in the medicine cabinet for emergencies, like dental surgery, or if someone just fell. It's having arnica at hand, something that decreases inflammation and takes pain immediately, and calms the nervous system immediately if you have an emotional upset. Just having some go-to for intense situations in life and seeing how fast it helps is phenomenal. So listeners, if you are interested, contact me and get on my schedule. Let's chat, and let me help you get hooked up with this. And then, for whatever reason, you're uncomfortable because sometimes people are shy being on the phone, and I get that; you can email me at If you don't hear from me, that means that it went to spam. I'm going to check my spam, but email me again. You can also find me on Facebook. You can go to the Facebook group It gets you there. You can message me on Facebook, or you can email me. You can go to, go to the tab, the Ashley tab in the menu, Ashley James, and then “Work with Ashley James.” And from there, you'll be able to sign up for a phone call. If you want a phone call, an email, or a message on Facebook, I'm here to help. 

I'd love to see you guys be able to experience these results. And then for those practitioners, because 20% of my listeners are practitioners, health coaches, dentists, and many outstanding practitioners, this stuff's incredible. I want to see dentists use the patches. Can you imagine if you could decrease anxiety right away? Put the patches on the specific protocol on the wrists, and it decreases anxiety right away. If you put the patches on the jaw, it helps to reduce pain and inflammation right away. I could see this affecting the dental industry hugely in such a positive way. And you could sell retail as a practitioner. But I'd prefer to help people get the wholesale discount, which I did, and I want you to as well. But again, as you said, it's not like you're buying an expensive energy machine, right? Like, I wanted to buy the BEMER mat that you lie on, but it's thousands of dollars. And I opted for the Platinum Energy System foot detox spa and the sauna instead, which was thousands of dollars. I would love a frequency-specific microcurrent machine, and I'd love the SCIO. I'd love all those machines that are thousands of dollars. And these patches are so affordable. It's not like buying giant machines and they get the results like these giant machines. So I do love that. That's so great. 

Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing. Is there anything else that you want to share? This is stuck in my mind because I'm sure some listeners went, what? But you mentioned ovarian cancer, and we didn't talk about whether it was gone, so I want to check in with you. 

[1:42:09.1] Trina Hammack: 15 years ago, I was diagnosed with aggressive stage 3 ovarian cancer. And I'm, like, wait, what? I mean, I am like you. I was a Big Sur mama, and I was eating clean. And I've got all of this technology. I'm a holistic practitioner now of 27 years, but fifteen years ago, I got this huge tumor diagnosis, and I did not understand what was happening. Anyway, so they took it out, and I refused chemo. I did a holistic therapy program with Hope for Cancer and am good friends with the medical director there, Dr. Jimenez. I've been fine ever since. From that experience, I learned German New Medicine which is the emotional part of any disease. And so that was my blessing, my silver lining in that. But honestly, it's a walk in the park compared to Lyme and mold. 

But I've been great. I never did chemo, and I didn't do radiation. Yeah, it's done. It was an emotional trigger. It was a repair phase of an emotional trauma. The one thing that I like to tell people is anytime you feel symptoms, whether it's a pain, inflammation, or sore throat, ask yourself what you just let go of. So what did you resolve to have your body go into this healing phase? Then you can use patches to help you smoothly transition through that healing phase and get better faster. 

When the body goes through repair, that's when you have symptoms. When it's in a conflict or has some conflict, you don't know that it's breaking down or building up some tissue. But when you let go of that emotional problem, it's like after being through a really stressful time, like, the finals. You're stressed out, and you get a cold or the flu afterward. It's because your body is in a phase, and that's when we use microbes to help us repair. But now you have tools to help you get through that, to keep your immune system stronger, so there's less body breakdown while you're stressed. 

But thank you for asking. I'm really good. I got to learn all about German New Medicine and help people on that level now too. 

[1:44:44.9] Ashley James: Yeah, I learned about Dr. Hamer in 2005 when I was studying neuro-linguistic programming, and what a rabbit hole to go down.

[1:44:53.1] Trina Hammack: It sure is. 

[1:44:53.7] Ashley James: It is such a beautiful rabbit hole. So I'm so glad you offer that, along with all the other tools you offer in your functional practice. So let's make sure we plug you as well, And, of course, the links to everything we've discussed today will be shown on today's podcast at And I can't wait to help you guys with this.

If you want to get and try these patches for yourself, and try these protocols, please contact me. Let me help you get on it and try it for yourself. And thank you for coming on the show. I would love to interview your friend there at Hope for Cancer. So I hope you can hook me up with him. I'd love that.

[1:45:37.1] Trina Hammack: I'll hook you up, absolutely. 

[1:45:38.6] Ashley James: And I want to interview more people like scientists associated with these patches, dig deeper into the science behind them, and go down this rabbit hole. 

[1:45:54.0] Trina Hammack: Let's get you hooked up with the founder.

[1:45:56.6] Ashley James: Yeah, let's do that. That would be a lot of fun. Awesome. Is there anything else you want to ensure the listener knows about today?

[1:46:06.9] Trina Hammack: I think we're good. I feel complete. How about you? 

[1:46:13.2] Ashley James: Yeah, nice and cool. Awesome. 

[1:46:16.2] Trina Hammack: Thank you so much.

[1:46:16.8] Ashley James: This has been fantastic. I'm looking forward to helping everyone interested in taking their health to the next level. Trina, you're welcome back on the show any time because you're such a fountain of knowledge, 27 years being this amazing practitioner, the healer, and your fellow country mom, that you are. We appreciate that. Absolutely. I think it's essential to help people heal from all their emotional, mental, physical, and spiritual issues, get to the root cause, and support their body's ability to heal. 

We help people remind themselves that they have the power. The word, empower, is not the right word to use because the root of the word empower means they don't have the power. You're lending them your power. But truly, they have the power within them. The body has the ability to heal itself. You're just reminding them. You're their navigator. 

And what I love about these patches is that they stimulate the body's healing mechanisms. And so we're stimulating the body to heal itself, but of course, accompany that with good nutrition and everything else you do. But it just accelerates it and takes it to this whole new level. So I'm already doing all these other healthy things, and it took it to the next level. 

And then my family member, who's not doing anything good or not doing anything healthy, like drinking alcohol, and eating whatever she wants, is a standard American kind of person; it helped her so much. I'm like, holy crow. So it helps both people and animals. As you said, you can patch horses. You've patched cats and dogs, and they have no placebo effect. Like, they think it's going to help them. So when you see that their limping goes away, their pain or anxiety behavior goes away after putting them on these animals. Even a patch has been designed specifically for horses because of how effective they are. And think about it; this is no drug. We're not putting something in the body. We're just stimulating the body's own healing mechanism, which is phenomenal. I love it. It should be in everyone's medicine cabinet. Everyone should try this and use it. This is a key that has been missing for so many people, so I'm really excited. I can't wait to talk to the listeners and help them get on it. And thank you so much for coming on the show. So if you ever have anything you want to come on the show and share about, you're welcome to come back. And maybe next time, I will actually let you talk.

[1:49:05.5] Trina Hammack: Hey, I loved hearing all your stories because it's only been a couple of months since you guys used these. I know where you started, and it was so great to get filled in with Duffy and Brave and your family member and stuff like that. So thank you for sharing all that. 

[1:49:24.1] Ashley James: Remember you told me I love new patchers! Because we started getting excited, and we're texting each other, you're like, I love new patchers. I thought to myself, and I can't wait to say that to someone else. I can't wait till I am helping other people, and they're like, I'm getting these results! And I can't wait to say to them, I love new patchers! It's just so cool to pass something on to someone that makes such a big difference and helps them. So just the one thing, like taking his headaches away. He was debilitated from constant pain for almost an entire year, from April to the end of the year. And like I said, it's every other day, at least once a week, then three or four times a week, and sometimes daily. And now he doesn't have that. How cool is it to have something you don't have to put anything in the body? So you stick something on his body, and it takes away the pain within minutes. 

If we could take away people's chronic pain with just that one thing. But it does so many more things than that.

[1:50:33.9] Trina Hammack: You have nothing to lose by trying something new. And if you don't like them, send them back. Honestly, my people don't because they get it. So you have nothing to lose. And why not try? That's how I look at it. 

[1:50:54.2] Ashley James: Love it. Thank you so much, Trina. And I look forward to having you back on the show. 

[1:50:58.8] Trina Hammack: Thanks, I can't wait.

[1:51:01.3] Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today's interview with Trina Hammack. Wasn't that amazing? I just looked at the calendar and realized that my husband and I have been using this technology for 56 days. Since using it daily, I have been jumping out of bed way earlier than I used to. My sleep was already good. I've been on a healing journey for many years. I am incredibly clean, but I'm still healing my body. I still have a ways to go before I am a hundred percent satisfied. So I've got my own health goals that I'm working on

But I noticed that it improved my sleep, which was already good. We're just cool. It improved my energy, which was already good. Then it increased my strength. I can run upstairs. I have more strength that I feel my muscles are just stronger, and I'm lifting heavier things. It just feels easier. And my body composition has changed, which is interesting. I put clothing on, and I'm like, wow, that is fitting differently. The scale is telling me, but I'm also losing inches. My husband goes and hugs me and goes, woah; your body is shifting and changing. And it's fantastic. So my body composition is changing. They did studies and found that the specific protocol that I'm doing increases the body's ability to burn fat by 23%. 

There are so many studies that you can look into if you want. Just send me an email at, and I can share the studies with you. Or you can book that session with me. Go to, and at the top, it says, “Work with Ashley James” click on that, and the first session at the top, you can book our free 15-minute phone call, and then I can help you. I can help you get on the protocol that you want. If you're interested in trying this out, I'd love to help you. Also, the company, which I really appreciate, stands 100% behind its products, and they have a money-back guarantee. That's something I look into when I work with any holistic company. I look at many factors, including reviews and quality control, how long they've been around, the studies that they have published, and labs that are published about them. And then I look if they have a guarantee. Because if they 100% stand behind their product and will give you your money back, then that is amazing. And this company has such a good money-back guarantee. They really believe in their product, and I can see it for myself. So it's 56 days that I can really feel it. And I'm so excited that I was turned on to this by Trina. 

So if you want to get involved, I'd love to help you experience it yourself. Go to, chat with Ashley James book, and book a session with Ashley James. And then, boom. Let's have a discussion, and let me help you. And I've got access to Trina and many other holistic practitioners in our group that work with this technology, and I've been learning so much. I've been helping some people already with this and having some really fun results. So I'd love to help you as well.

I hope you have a fantastic rest of your day. Enjoy the rest of your day, whatever you're doing. Have a wonderful time, and I look forward to the next episode because I am super excited to publish it. And I've got a few more episodes until episode 500. That's going to be an amazing testimonial. So if you have a testimonial of health and healing that you'd like to share, I'd love to hear it. And I'd love to share it with the listeners because we're in the business of helping people to end their suffering. So, if you have a story of the success of healing, please share it with me. I'd love to share it on episode 500. That's coming up.

But pay attention to the next episode because there's another thing I'm excited to share with you. We're just kicking off the year with so many remarkable technologies. So stay tuned, and make sure you subscribe to get notified. I'd be publishing that episode soon. Excellent. Thank you so much for sharing my episodes with your friends and family. That's how we grow, and that's how we help as many people as possible. I want to help over a million people to learn true health and end their suffering, and to be able to finally gain the knowledge that they need to be able to be truly healthy in their bodies. So, thank you for spreading this information and helping your loved ones. And if you want to join our community, we have a free Facebook group. I'd love for you to be part of it as well. You can go to, which will take you to the Learn True Health Facebook group, and I will see you there.

Get Connected with Trina Hammack!








Jan 12, 2023

Your Three Action Steps:
1) Please share your testimonials by emailing
2) Get the foundations of health at
3) Structured Water! Check it out and use coupon code LTH at:


495: Unlock Mental and Emotional Freedom, Dr. Dain Heer

Our emotions are constantly on the move, rising and falling as we try to navigate through life. Our reactions to what's happening in our world may cause us to hold ourselves back from going after what we want (or are afraid of) which creates discord and imbalance in our lives. In this episode, Dr. Dain Heer speaks about tools and strategies to help us work through this process of emotional healing so that we can create more balance in life and feel happier!


  • Access Consciousness
  • Anti-consciousness
  • Tapping into awareness of the future
  • Finding your inner authentic voice
  • On the issue of suicide
  • Asking yourself, “who does it belong to?”
  • POC and POD


Hello, true health seeker, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast and welcome to 2023. I know we’re in full swing now. Can’t believe this is the 12th day into 2023. I feel amazing, by the way. I’ve had a really amazing New Year’s. Very cathartic and I can’t wait to share more with you in the next few episodes as kind of my story will unfold. But I do have a few things I want to tell you that are really important before you get to today’s interview, which is phenomenal, by the way. I’m really excited about the techniques that he teaches in today’s interview. I think it’s beneficial for everyone to hear. 

First of all, episode 500 is coming up. It’s a pretty big deal. I’d love to hear your testimonials. For episode 500, I’m planning a testimonial episode. I’ve had some really great ones shared with me. And if you have a testimonial, and what I mean by that is, you’re in healing journey and if anything you’ve learned from the Learn True Health podcast or our Facebook group, anything you’ve learned from me or my guest has helped you along your journey, I’d love to hear your testimonial. You can record yourself. Just put your phone on you and record yourself and then shoot it to me. You can email to me, or you can find me on Facebook. If you go to, that’ll take you straight to our Facebook group. Feel free to join it and you can hit me up there and give me the testimonial. Or you can type it out if you like. Or transcribe it. Or just record an audio, however you want to get me. Your testimonial – I’d love to have it and it could be two minutes long or ten minutes long. Either way. 

The reason why I’m collecting these testimonials for this episode, for episode that’s coming up, episode 500, is when I was suffering and throughout my life there have been moments where I was at really low points. Hearing stories of success because I couldn’t see my way out of the darkness, of the pain, and seeing people who had been through what I had been through or in a similar experience and then come out the other side and they were thriving, seeing them succeed gave me hope to keep going. And I want to give that hope, I want to extend that hope to those who are suffering. I suffered for many years and the suffering didn’t have to happen, and that's the part that angers me but motivates me, right, because the suffering is optional. But when I was going through it, it wasn’t optional. It was what I was going through. And I found the tools and the resources to end my suffering, to heal my body emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, I was able to overcome those things. That's why I do this podcast, to share these tools with you to help you and your suffering, to help you get on the other side of your healing.

Now, healing is a journey whenever done, right? You don’t just go, “Oh, I’m done, I’m healed.” You're always growing and so am I. But I’d like you to get a point where life is like living is easy. Like it’s not uncomfortable to be in your own body, right? Living is fantastic. I want you to be on that side of the river with me, right? So I’m going to help you. We’re going to build that bridge to get on that side. Because right now, I’m on that side. I’m still growing, I’m still healing. I still have health goals. My life in my body is no longer suffering. 

So, with testimonials, you get to hear from real people, real listeners who have been able to cross that bridge and get to the other side. I want you to have the same thing. I’ve got some great testimonials about migraines, hormones, digestive issues. There's even one testimonial where a listener was able to save her mom’s life. Just big stuff. So, no matter how big or how small you think your testimonials, if you have one, please share it with me. I’d love to include it in that episode. Let’s help inspire those who want to be able to get on the other side but maybe just they can’t see their way out and let’s help motivate them and encourage them to get to that place. 

So anyways, who doesn’t love a great success story? Who does not love that? I cry, I weep, tears of joy and love and gratitude and praise. So happy to hear people’s transformation stories. So, please, share them,, I’d love to hear them.

The next thing I want to let you know. This is the beginning of the year and a lot of people are looking to create new health habits. I’ve got a fantastic free course for you that I designed with some naturopathic physicians. We filmed it. It’s called and I mean it, it is free. There's no strings attached. It’s just I filmed it with some of my favorite local naturopathic doctors and they give you the foundations of health that they do with all their patients that if you’re missing even one of these, you could be suffering needlessly. What’s crazy is that medical doctors will actually try to medicate these symptoms and the symptoms are like dehydration, for example, right? Just absolutely crazy that there's medications out there to treat symptoms that are completely resolved when we cover the foundations of true health. And that is what is offered in So go to, put in your information and you’ll get 7 emails from me, one every day with a video from a naturopathic physician teaching you and other foundation of health, easy steps that you can take and such a great time of year to do it to solidify your new health resolutions. Right? We all want to feel better. No matter where you are on your health journey, you need these foundations of health. So there they are., go to that, check it out.

Lastly, I have a story, I’m going to keep it short because I want you to get to this great interview. I’m going to be interviewing the creators and the scientists around this thing. But I was going to wait until I did the interview which I’m going to be doing next week. But I can’t wait. I have to tell you about it. If you’ve been a long-time listener, you’ve heard me say I’m the world’s most open-minded skeptic, right? I think that's how we need to be. We’re discovering new things, right? We have to use our critical thinking, right? Not just blindly accept anything but at the same time, be open-minded enough to at least take in new information especially if that information is so new. I think there's little bells and whistles that go off in our mind. It’s like oh, that sounds so new, it’s probably not true or it sounds too good to be true. Well, sometimes in holistic medicine, there are things that really work and they do sound too good to be true. But then there's a lot of I don’t want to say snake oil but there's a lot of not-so-great stuff. So, how do we navigate that? Well, we got to really get in touch and listen to our heart, listen to our intuition, take in all the information, look at the science, look at the results, and then try it on for ourselves. As long as there’s no negative side effects, try it on for ourselves as long as we feel like it’s safe to do, and then see what kind of results we get. So, that's what I love. I love experimenting with new herbs and new supplements and new machines and new habits. Like, I’m going to skip breakfast or I’m going to skip dinner or see what happens in my body, or I’m going to drink even more water, or I’m going to try a new exercise. Just you’re always experimenting trying new things. Get new health habits and try them on. 

So, I was introduced to this company and I’ve heard of structured water for a long time. I even have an interview on it which is amazing. I have this amazing interview. He’s a little hard to understand because I felt he had a very thick accent but if you strain really hard, you get some great information when you listen to him. He’s a Russian scientist who discovered with this group of scientists that discovered that structured water is what had the people in Chernobyl had them survive. So, there's a certain amount of people from Chernobyl who had radiation poisoning sent to this one particular hospital up in the mountains and he tells the story and they drink structured water. The other people were sent to other hospitals. Well, those people all suffered how we would predict with radiation poisoning. And yet, the ones that drink structured water did not, and they got better. They were like, woah, what’s going on? Like, this is the clear night and day difference.

They finally discovered that it was structured water that they were drinking, that it’s very specific places in the world where it comes up, it has to be under pressure, underground, and they’ve been trying to recreate it. If you’ve been into the health space, I’m sure you’ve heard of structured water before. Well, there's lots of machines, there's lots of expensive machines, there's all kinds of things out there that you get for structured water. I was introduced to this one company and, you know, I’m skeptical but I’m open-minded so I’m going to try it, so I tried it. And I really didn’t believe I was going to notice a difference. You simply use it in your glass of water. So, I fill up a big mason jar of 24 ounces, 30 ounces of water, and I use it. I swirl this thing in the water for a minute and then I drink it. I did not have a belief it would work because I was like, come on, really? I’m going to stir something in my water and it’s going to structure it. Well, sure enough. And you could stir water with a spoon or a knife or a chopstick. It’s not going to change the flavor of it. It’s not going to change how it feels in your mouth. Well, I used this device in the water for a minute and then I drank it. I was like, what just happened? Then of course I get another glass of water, pour it out of my filter to compare. Straight out of my filter I drank it, I’m like, okay, yeah, that's what water normally feels like in my mouth, normally tastes like. And then I drank the structured water again. I’m like, I cannot believe this! So, then I go grab my husband and our son, and I go okay, blind test. They don’t know which one is the structured water. I’m like, “Drink this, now drink this.” And they both were like, “What is this? This is amazing.” In one minute of using this device. And I’ve done this with every friend that’s come over. It’s been the funnest magic trick to do when friends come over, is the blind test. “Okay, drink this water, now drink this water, and tell me which one you like better.” The structured water tastes wetter. It feels different in the mouth. It tastes a bit sweeter and more natural just like more how water should be and it goes down your mouth like when you swallow it, it feels like everything is in alignment. And this has blown my mind.

So, I have a friend who also has the device and she says she’s loved it. So, I started sharing this with my friends and every single one of them has gone like, “I have to get this. This is crazy. This is so good.” Three days of using this, and this is the big thing for me because I don’t know if you know my stories, you might be a new listener. Listeners who have been listening for a while know that we’ve been through a hard time. Our family, we lost our daughter, and I’ve been doing a lot of healing work. What had been sort of in the background for me had just been like this low-grade sadness, just like really almost like a static noise sort of just always there, somewhere in my heart, just low in my heart, just always there, three days of drinking this water. One of my friends said, “How are you doing?” I did an internal check and I went, “It’s gone. It’s gone.” Wait, what? For the first time in two years, I was able to answer, “I’m actually doing really well, thanks for asking. Like I feel really good.” There was just this congruency in my body three days of drinking this water. I feel so good and my husband is like, refuses to drink any water other than using the structured water. You can use it in your cooking. It changes the flavor of your coffee, by the way. If you structure the water before you make coffee with it.

So, we’ve been doing it since right around Thanksgiving is when we got this device. I wanted to give it like a good enough trial before I introduce you guys to it because I like to experiment and see if something really resonates and really helps. Well, the studies around this structured water is that it reverses cellular age and people had their cellular age reversed up to 12 years younger in three months of drinking this water. I feel amazing. I know I’m doing a lot of health things, right? It’s hard because you’re doing so many different things, you don’t know which one is the one that's doing it. But I hadn’t really changed anything right around when I started using this device to structure my water. And I haven’t stopped using it. And I feel amazing. I’m a big water fanatic, I think we all should drink over 100 ounces of water a day that's purified water. But it makes me want to drink water more. It makes me enjoy drinking water. And there's a huge difference when I use it. Also, it affects well water too because I went to a friend’s house, we tested it on her well water and sure enough, I thought well water might already be just naturally structured coming from the ground. Sure enough, it changes well water as well. It feels wetter and it just goes down your throat easier and it changes the flavor of it like more enjoyable. Anyways, enough about that. Look forward to that interview. I’m going to be doing that interview next week. We’re going to get into the science of why. It also changes brain waves. It makes them healthier. They’ve been doing studies for about 12 years now on this particular device, but there's so much science around structured water. It’s really fascinating. So, check out this device that I love and of course, I asked them if they would give our listeners a discount. That's Use the coupon code LTH as in Learn True Health. Check it out for yourself. What I like about this is it’s actually way cheaper than all the machines out there probably because it’s manual and it’s not a machine that you're stirring your water with it. Check it out. So far, I really enjoyed communicating with this company and I’m really looking forward to having their scientist and their founders on the show and just digging into like why is it that the structured water, first of all, how is it that in one minute of stirring this device in your water is going to change it so much and how is it that it’s affecting people reversing their cellular age, affecting their brainwaves. How is it that it affected my emotional body, my energetic and emotional body, and that residual sadness that wasn’t going away went away. How is that? 

So, very excited to bring you that information. Go to Use coupon code LTH, try it for yourself. It is the most affordable structured water device I have found which is great. Yeah, I want to know your feedback. Come to the Learn True Health Facebook group and let me know what you think about this device. Now, remember, testimonials, I want them. Please give them to me because episode 500 is coming up. Then,, go get the foundations of health. I want you doing those things for your benefit and share it with your friends and family. Enjoy today’s interview. It’s a fantastic episode. I really, really loved it. It resonated with me and I hope it helps you as well. Have yourselves a fantastic rest of your day and enjoy today’s interview.

[00:16:17] Ashley James: Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I’m your host, Ashley James, this is episode 495.

I am so excited for today’s guest. We have on the show with us Dr. Dain Heer. Boy, this is going to be one of those episodes where you’re just going to sit back and you're going to feel like a transformed person by the end of it. I’m excited for 2023. The last few years, I just want to, I don’t know, I kind of want to put it in that little box in my mind like was that the dream like Dorothy waking up and being like, it was a dream but you were there and you were there. So, let’s just all wake up and 2023 will be like this beautiful technicolor life. Let’s take everything that we want to transform and work on that but in a really positive way see ourselves in the future having achieved those transformed goals. And we have with us an amazing expert to help us get there. Welcome to the show!

[00:17:20] Dr. Dain Heer: Ashley, thanks for having me.

[00:17:22] Ashley James: Absolutely. Now I’d love to hear just a little bit about what had you become the expert you are now. I know that sort of started out as a chiropractor which I absolutely love chiropractic care. But so many chiropractors I have interviewed have gone on to do so much more and it’s really cool that you can take that as a foundation and then go and do like emotional work and healing and energy work. There's so many modalities that can come about from that foundation.

[00:17:57] Dr. Dain Heer: Yeah, it’s wonderful. Chiropractic is sort of a gateway drug for possibilities. It’s like, “Hey, you want to learn chiropractic? Hey, how about some other stuff now?” For me, I was a chiropractor, I was living in Santa Barbara, starting my second practice 22 years ago. I felt like I didn’t even do chiropractic very well. I had studied so many different techniques, you know, emotional, untwisting the tension from the dura, I mean, and about 30 others. I was at a point in my life where I was done because I was going to every weekend workshop I could. I was reading every book I could on personal development, self-help, money, relationships, all the stuff. And what would happen for me is I’d go to a weekend workshop and I’d feel like I finally had the answers by the end of the workshop and I was finally going to be able to create the life I wanted and then by Wednesday of the following week, it would all go away and the universe would cave in on my head again. It was literally a Wednesday after one of these workshops 22 years ago where the universe caved in on my head when I thought I had finally found the answers I was looking for and I said, “I’m done. Universe, you have six months. Either my life changes or I’m out of here.” I literally set a date to end my life. I knew how I was going to do it. It wasn’t around anybody’s birthday. It wasn’t around a holiday. I didn’t want people to mourn for me. I just wanted to get out of my suffering. A week later, I came across an ad for something called Access Consciousness that I had never heard about before. It said Access, all of life comes to me with ease and joy and glory. I got furious, I threw the paper away. Because my life was pain and suffering and gory at the time. I happened to see this little add in the paper the following week and I learned along before if there’s something you hate or something you love, there's something in it for you. So, I called and I was thinking nothing was going to happen. Called and made an appointment and had this girl come to my office for a session. I went into this session angry, depressed, suicidal, looking forward to leaving the planet and I came out with a sense of gratitude for being alive that I will never forget. 

In contrast, everything else that I had done up until that point, it didn’t go away. I got a tool to use each week because I started doing these sessions once a week and what would happen is, when the universe wanted to cave back in on my head, I would use the tool and it would expand back out and I would have that space again. Then, I would get the session and then my space would expand more. And I started walking around with something that very few people seemed to have or allowed themselves which was actually a sense of space no matter what happened. So, I could go through the trials and travails of life and observe it rather than be in the middle of it. That was 22 years ago. Few months after that session, I met the founder of Access, a man named Gary Douglas and he came for a chiropractic session in my office and we became fast friends and started creating this body of work that changes every day and grows every day based on how much more quickly can we help you create change. Because Access is about accessing, the knowing that each of us has within us. When you access that, you start to create the life of your dreams that you always knew was possible. There's stills ups and there's still downs but the downs are far less and the ups are far greater and that starts to become the new trajectory for your life.

[00:21:54] Ashley James: So, you want to unpack a bit about what this is? Is it energy work? Is it meditation? Is it talk therapy? What is it?

[00:22:03] Dr. Dain Heer: Yes. It is so many things. I mean, we have probably 8000 tools at this point that are different ways of handling things in the trenches of life. But its basis is that the only time we create a difficulty in our lives is when we function from less than the consciousness that we are. So, what it’s about is actually undoing the unconscious and anti-conscious points of view that we have which is all the places where we stick ourselves. When you do that, the being that you are actually is conscious.

In certain spiritual circles, they talk about having a higher self. Well, that never sat well with me because inherent in that point of view is you must be the lower self. What this is about is accessing your being, the part of you that actually knows. It’s like if you ever had a choice come up and you knew not to do it, and you did it anyway. And it turned out just as poorly as you know it would, well, that's an acknowledgement that we knew ahead of time, we can perceive these things. So, part of what Access does is there's a part of that’s verbal processing, there's a part of it that’s hands-on which is the session that I had which is this thing called The Bars, which is a light touch technique that’s done on the head and we’ve done scientifically valid studies and found that it decreases anxiety, stress, and depression at an average of 87% with one session. So, there are also body processes to change things in your body by getting your body more conscious. So, it’s got a lot of aspects to it. Describing Access is kind of like hey, describe the universe in three sentences. It’s like, it’s really big.

[00:24:08] Ashley James: This sounds a lot like neurolinguistic programming or timeline therapy. Or there's a lot of other modalities that I know of. Does it pull from other modalities or is it 100 percent its own unique thing?

[00:24:21] Dr. Dain Heer: Nope. It’s 100 percent its own unique thing.

[00:24:26] Ashley James: You mentioned the term “anti-conscious”. I understand consciousness, I understand the unconscious mind or the subconscious mind. But what is anti-consciousness?

[00:24:36] Dr. Dain Heer: Well, let’s actually unpack the unconscious or subconscious. Because what we call our subconscious mind can actually oftentimes be our consciousness in action. See, we have done ourselves a dynamic disservice by equating cognitive and conscious. They are not the same. Cognitive is mental. Conscious is your connection with everything and the awareness you would have as an infinite being. So, if we look from that perspective, I’ll give people a moment to digest that sentence. Kind of one big sentence there which is that we as beings are conscious. In other words, we have infinite knowing, we have infinite perceiving, we have infinite receiving and infinite being. Those are the four aspects of an infinite being, but those are also what we would have as the consciousness we are.

So, unconsciousness is actually where you allow yourself or enforce upon yourself to be unaware of something. Anti-consciousness is where you actively choose against the consciousness that you are. This is what I see with a lot of people is for example, in that case, of you know, everybody out there, think of one thing that you knew not to do and you did it anyway. Then think of how it turned out just as badly as you knew it would. Even though you went through the check box, you listed out your pros and cons, or it looks so good it must work out well. Well, that's a combination of unconsciousness and anti-consciousness. The unconsciousness is I’m going to make myself unaware of the future this will create because each of us has an awareness of future. The anti-consciousness is “Oh, I just got the awareness of the future and I’m going against it now.” That’s what gets created when you function from less than the consciousness of you which occurs in either of those forms.

[00:26:49] Ashley James: I feel like a lot of people might be questioning you on this awareness of the future, like, “I’m not psychic, I can’t predict what other people are going to say or do or how they're going to respond.” Then, how do we tap into our awareness of the future and check in with ourselves and make sure that we’re not actively choosing against the consciousness that we are?

[00:27:17] Dr. Dain Heer: Well, that definitely takes practice because look at it, we’ve all grown up being taught that there are right and wrong choices and the way to know how to choose what’s right is to write down if you're going to do anything, you write down the list of pros and cons, and if the pros outweigh the cons, then you do it. But I’ve seen a lot of people who got married to people who the pros appear to outweigh the cons who suffered dynamically for years. So, what else is there? Well, when you say a lot of people would say “I’m not psychic,” I know and yes, you are. I totally get it. I was functioning from the same place, so I totally understand. I totally understand if I say hey, you have this awareness of future. And people would resist it like I did. You know when I first heard that too, I was like, “You are full of crap!” So if you think I’m full of crap, I totally understand.

In fact, probably the most common thing I hear is “I thought you were full of crap when you said this but I found out you’re not.” I’m like, yup, I get it. I understand. It takes practice. But here’s the thing, is let’s take psychic out of the card reading, future predicting type of thing and let’s acknowledge that it’s awareness of the energetics that occur but also that will occur. So, you don’t necessarily know what somebody else is going to do or what they're going to choose. You could probably predict it with some reliable probability but that's not actually the point. The point is actually getting the sense of I choose this, what space or lack of space will it create for me? A great question to start practicing that is if I choose this, what will my life be like in five years? Not look like because you can’t see it. The future is wisps and whispers of energy. I made a concerted choice to even bring up this topic because I do realize how out there it can seem for some people. But unless we start to realize that we are aware of the energetics, the fundamental sort of sense of lightness or heaviness of what our choices create, we’re going to keep ourselves in the dark thinking that we have no clue what to choose. That's one of the biggest things sticking most people right now. I say right now, it’s probably been forever, is the idea that they don’t know what to choose because they don’t know what the outcome will be, so then they go to their minds to try to figure it out and they go through the checklist and then it still doesn’t work out well.

And yet, if you recognize that even while you're doing the checklist, even while you're exploring whatever the subject is, you will have a sense of whether it’s light or not. See, what’s true for you always makes you lighter. A lie for you will always make you heavier. The more you choose the things that are actually true for you, whether they are for anybody else or not, the lighter your life gets over time.

So, like if for example, well, right around 22 years ago now, I got engaged. Why did I get engaged? Because I had a desire to get married at the time? No, I didn’t but I knew that my girlfriend at the time desired it and in a sense required it because that was the next step we were supposed to take and she needed that for me to prove that I loved her. Because I’m a bit of a romantic, okay, I’m a total freaking romantic, don’t tell anybody, that's just between us, okay, even while I was planning this wonderful way of asking her to marry me, I felt like the walls were closing in. I knew not to do it. I did it anyway. Well, that was like opening Pandora’s box. There was so much heaviness associated with it. But I was going to be the right man who was doing the right thing.

So, my previous conclusion about what I needed to be for someone created the place where I couldn’t look at the effect or wouldn’t look at the effect that it would create even though energetically it was right in my face. We ended up breaking up about three months after because I could no longer go down that path because it just got heavier and heavier and heavier and heavier. The thing is, I knew before I chose it. Which is why I’m bringing this up to people and I also realized, you know, to a certain extent, people, if they're listening to a podcast or they’re usually thinking they're going to get some slightly different version of what they already know. And we’re greater than that. We actually have awarenesses. It’s easy to reject something because it doesn’t match what you thought it was but that's the recipe for keeping the same life that you’ve always had. This conversation is about let’s embrace that we might have more awareness than we think and let’s use it on our behalf. You don’t have to throw out anything. Anything that you’ve learned, anything that you know, because what’s true makes you lighter, a lie makes you heavier. If I say something and it makes you lighter, take it. If I say something and it makes you heavier, feel free to leave it. It’s your choice, it’s your life. But we are greater than we have ever acknowledged or given ourselves credit for. And us trying to pretend that we’re normal, trying to pretend we don’t have the level of awareness we have is killing is, literally. 

[00:33:16] Ashley James: I’m going to play the devil’s advocate for just a moment because I think it will help us better understand. What if 20 years ago, those feelings that you had were not your tapping into understanding your future, but were coming from a place of your unconscious limiting decisions or negative emotions or negative beliefs about yourself like marriage is hard, I’m not loved, I’m going to screw this up, or I’m going to be trapped or whatever. People come up with these limiting decisions that they end up living by that they’ve created through their childhood.

[00:33:56] Dr. Dain Heer: Totally.

[00:33:58] Ashley James: And people will often live as if these unconscious negative beliefs are the truth, right?

[00:34:05] Dr. Dain Heer: Totally. That's what Access changes. That is exactly what Access changes. I’m really grateful you're bringing it up because this is a thing that so many people don’t realize that they're just living the negative beliefs that they grew up with and basically bought as theirs. That they just basically climbed into the box of somebody else’s limited reality and they're trying to decorate it better. So, it’s like absolutely, I’m 100 percent with you.

[00:34:40] Ashley James: Because when people, they're coming from a negative belief and then they try something, they go to do something but they're still believing they can’t or it’s going to screw up, I’m going to screw up, I’m not good enough, I’m not loved, whatever the thing is, and then when it does mess up, they're like, “See, I knew it. I knew I can’t do it,” and they're finding the evidence that they can’t do it. They’re finding they’re living through evidence and proving evidence that they can’t do it. People will live from their unconscious beliefs as if that's reality. Then, they’ll go on proving. So let’s say an unconscious belief is I’m not loved or if it’s like a marriage thing like they saw their parents struggle and divorce and maybe they've seen broken marriages, they grew up in a broken home, they believe that they can’t do it, I can’t do it. Whatever it is about relationships, they can’t do it, or I’m bad at relationships, no one loves me, whatever their belief is, it’s unconscious. They're not consciously aware of it, but what they're aware of is they’re constantly finding evidence to prove their belief system is true and they're negating, the unconscious mind is negating. Distorting, generalizing, negating the proof that they are loved or the proof that anything that goes against their belief system.

So, if they go and they go “Well, I couldn’t possibly do this marriage thing. I’m feeling trapped, I’m feeling like the walls are closing in,” and they call it off and they're like, “See, I knew I couldn’t do it.” But it wasn’t them predicting the future; it was them fulfilling their limiting beliefs or their negative beliefs that they’ve created, that they're living by, and then they're constantly finding evidence to support that their negative beliefs are reality when in fact they're not. 

[00:36:40] Dr. Dain Heer: Like I was saying, those negative beliefs, those limiting beliefs are actually what Access changes. The thing about looking at the future is you're not predicting the future, you are having an awareness of what that choice will create. In other words, the energetics of what that choice will create. So, with this, for me, what I did was I started using these Access Consciousness tools because the thing is, when something is heavy, we know it. We just know it for whatever reason. And what Access gives you is a way of changing that. So, because what we tend to do is we tend to lump all kinds of things together. It’s like we’ve got the love we didn’t get from mom and the love we didn’t get from dad and like the insecurities you’ve grown up with and the future we’re looking at that we don’t know that we can do and we put it all together in one thing, it keeps us from getting clarity on what’s actually going on. 

So, I totally agree with you about our past limiting points of view that we’ve adopted and most of those, we have adopted and bought from other people who had a similar point of view, so we don’t really even know what our point of view is most of the time unless you're willing to explore it. What happened for me was that’s exactly where I was functioning and it was so heavy, I went, “I need to do something.” So, I started asking some questions like what is true for me here that I haven’t acknowledged. What will my life be like in 5 years if I go through with this? What choices do I have available that I haven’t acknowledged? And what is it I’m trying to create here and for whom. 

Then we also have another thing in Access which is a way of, well, basically changing anything you want to change. It’s called a clearing statement. It’s based on the idea that the “conscious“ part of us, I hate to put it in those terms because I would like all of us to be conscious. But if we were totally conscious, we wouldn’t create difficulties. But we have this way of changing your limiting points of view and also unlocking the fix points of view that keep you from getting in touch with what’s true for you. I don’t normally go into it on an interview like this because yeah, it’s a lot of weird words and I’ve got a 20-minute video explaining it online, so I usually just point people there so they can have access to it if they're interested. But for me, it’s something that I use every single day because let’s face it, stuff comes up in the world we live in, you know.

[00:39:32] Ashley James: Well, I definitely want the link to the 20-minute video and I’ll put it in the show notes of today’s podcast at and any podcast directory wherever people are listening from, they can just look in the description and I’ll make sure that that link is there, so 20-minute video, I’ll make a little note of that. How can someone tell the difference between the unconscious sort of limiting points of view or the limiting decisions, negative beliefs that they’ve been living by or they created themselves or they adopted from their surroundings either from marketing, from their friend’s family. They’ve been living as though that's the truth and letting that sort of be their guide stone. How can they tell the difference between that which when they make decisions based on that guide stone, they’re coming from definitely a place of scarcity and fear and cutting themselves off, right? How can they tell the difference though between that and that connecting with the part of themselves, connecting with whatever you want to describe it, people would say god, universal energy, their higher self as you’ve said some people call it that, but connecting with that within you, your intuition that knows what’s going to create more space, lightness, a better future for yourself, how can you tell the difference between those two voices?

[00:40:57] Dr. Dain Heer: Once again, it takes some practice. The thing is, we live in a world where it’s like okay, give me the one answer that will solve my life and it doesn’t work that way. You’ve got to go on a journey where we’re willing to actually uncover and explore but the beginning of that is, ask this one simple question. What will my life be like in 5 years if I choose this and get a sense of whether it’s lighter or whether it’s heavier, whether you have a sense of more ability to breathe like more relaxation, more space, and/or if it seems contracted. Or of contraction of any form, and that's also different for all of us. But the thing is, it’s like when we’re choosing something that is what we’ve been conditioned to choose what other people require, it’s an energy we can learn to recognize. I mean, let’s face it, for most people, before this conversation, they didn’t really have it sort of pointed out in black and white. Like here’s one of the things that may be going on. So, it’s got to be a bit of an exploration of okay, and maybe one thing that would help is write down a couple of things that you’ve chosen in your life that just turned out way better than you could imagine. Get the moment where you chose that and get the sense of that. When I say the sense of that, it’s like hey, how was that? Like, what were you being in that moment? Be with that for a minute because that, for you, it’s unique to each of us, you know. There may be commonalities or similarities but it’s unique to each of us. But what were you being in that moment? Like, just get the sense of your space, your headspace, how your body felt. Be with that for a moment and then look at a couple of things that you’ve chosen that you knew you did it because you were supposed to. And look at the space you are choosing now or the lack of space.

A lot of times people will say “Yeah, I feel like I’m just all in my head” or “I feel like there's a band around my head when I think about that.” And yeah, it’s because we’re trying to use our computer to figure it out rather than letting our being access what it knows. We all have so many obligations and expectations from others that we’re spending our lives trying to fulfill, thinking that somehow, if I can just fulfill all of their expectations, then I’ll get the love that I want, that they won’t judge me anymore, that I’ll be a good person and not a bad person. All of these things are ways of opening the door to judging ourselves.

And in Access, we have a definition of consciousness which is where everything and everyone exists, and no one and nothing is judged. I guess a definition, a description, however you want to put it, and from that, you realize that if you’re judging you, you're not doing a kindness to you but that’s what we’ve grown up with in our entire world so it creates a place that when we go to choose something especially something we consider a large choice, we put our judgement system on overdrive most of the time, and you’ll notice if you look back at something that you choose that seemed to have space and relaxation to it that turned out wonderfully, usually it’s because it wasn’t a significant thing for you. So, when we have things we consider significant or big choices, we go the exact opposite of the way that will work. We go into more judgment, more trying to figure it out, more trying to understand it, rather than basically expanding out, getting some space for us as beings to approach the situation. 

[00:45:13] Ashley James: I’m trying to relate to what you’re saying but I’ve done so much personal growth work in my life and like thinking about all these major issues, I’m going, well, what I do is I usually, whatever the outcome is, I always try to learn from it. So, whether I’m like, okay, well, it didn’t turn out the way I wanted, but look at all the things we learned and look at all this growth and like now I know more of how to navigate this and so we’re always asking ourselves what’s good about this. My husband and I are always kind of going through what’s good about this. But the one thing that when you said take one thing that turned out really well and what was the moment, it was when I decided to say yes to my husband to marry him. I totally get back in that space and get right in my body in that moment. There’s so much possibilities, infinite possibility. There’s maybe one percent fear like what is the future going to bring? I don’t know. But there was so much love, so much possibility like oh, this is beautiful. It’s a beautiful space. It’s expanding, it’s light, it’s energetic. It’s exciting, thrilling. And that's like we were just talking today because a friend from 10+ years ago, coworker I had many years ago reached out and he just this morning shared with me that he is struggling in his relationship and doesn’t know what to do. I look at my husband and I’m like, you know, him and I always think about and talk about the things that we don’t like, the things we want to improve, the things we’re kind of frustrated with in our life, the messes in our life. But I said, you know what, I’ve been taking for granted the things that are amazing because like our relationship is amazing. I feel like I have the most solid relationship in the world and so I take it for granted. There's people who really want this and I have it. I started to think about all the things that wow, I’ve taken for granted so many things that are really working in my life because I’ve always just been fixated on the few that are not working. And that you're right when you think about the things that are working and the choices you’ve made that make it work, it’s a totally different feeling in your body. It’s a different feeling in your body. 

So, now it has shift. My choices and beliefs around the things that aren’t working so that I can have that on the same frequencies with the things that are working. Right?

[00:47:23] Dr. Dain Heer: Yeah, exactly that. I think that's the thing that like you said, one of the questions we have in Access, well, there's a few. One is what’s right about this, I’m not getting. Because also, it’s like every choice I make, my point of view is all is well that ends in more consciousness. Which is more awareness. Like you said, I made these choices, they didn’t work out well, but I look at everything I learned. And I have a similar point of view and also, it’s like how great would it be to be that space like when you said yes, to be that space with all of our choices. This is what I see people being able to step into, is they're no longer in conflict with themselves when they start to have a sense of who they actually are. And unfortunately, we live in a world where people think they are the image especially now, especially since the onslaught of social media, and I’m sure it was there before that in other ways, but people unfortunately are trying to uphold this image of who they are that’s primarily for other people. But they have to buy into it to a certain degree to try to see it as a reality and it’s really destructive because we’re far greater than that. And what would it be like if we could have a lot more space and a lot of our choices, number one, occur from that space that you're talking about when you said yes to your husband. But number two, also have the result. Because when you're doing it from that space and you choose, that's usually the result. It turns out awesome, it turns out greater than you can ever imagine. And you’re correct, we have to get in touch with how does this feel in my body, like how am I sensing this? Like, what is that?

And okay, so if you’ve had a time like that, then go there and then bring it here to the degree that you can to apply it to this situation and then see what you see that you didn’t see otherwise. 

[00:49:31] Ashley James: So now that we’ve established that you can feel in your body, and some people are more aware, more kinesthetic, they're more in tune with their feeling, and some people, they're going to have to work on this, right. But when you maybe just sit quietly for a few minutes and be with yourself, be with your breath, and think about, for example, like reflect on how you felt and the space in you, inside you, when you're making choices that turn out really well, that you felt totally in alignment with, there's no conflict, there was just feeling of congruency in your body, and then versus the times when you felt a lot of conflict, your incongruency, and yet you did it anyway, sort of like, I don’t know, I’m walking out and it’s a sunny day and my intuition says bring the umbrella, and I’m like, I override that soft voice in my head that says “bring the umbrella”. And I’m like, I don’t need to bring the umbrella, it’s sunny outside, right? Or I’m about to go to the car and the voice will say to bring a pair of batteries. I’m like, “I don’t need batteries. This doesn’t make sense.” And then later on in the day, I needed the batteries or I needed the umbrella. I’m like, “Oh, I was supposed to listen to that voice.” I don’t know. Why do I override it? 

But when you follow that voice versus when you don’t follow that voice or you make decisions when there is incongruency or like you said, almost like that feeling of less space closing in on you maybe, or darkness, or whatever it is, we start to establish that feeling. When we’ve established that feeling then, let’s say we have a choice we need to make, maybe start with some smaller ones about major life choices, like what to make for dinner, when we are sitting with ourselves and we’re feeling the incongruency, what’s an exercise we can do to find that authentic direction, the authentic voice inside us that’s like hey, this is the direction we’re meant to go and that this is authentically me?

[00:51:27] Dr. Dain Heer: Well, first is, you want to ask who does this belong to? When you're having that mental staccato, you know, the snare drum in your head or the out-of-tune band as your monkey mind goes into high rev, you want to ask who does this belong to. One of the things we’ve found in Access is that 98 percent of our thoughts, our feelings, our emotion, our stress, our anxiety, our depression, our suicidal thoughts, our anger and our fear, and our doubt, and all kinds of other things, are actually things we pick up from other people. And if we extend that a little bit further, what you realize is a lot of us for doing any sort of healing or personal development work, a lot of us have the awareness that I’m acting just like my mom, I’m being a slightly better version of my mom or my dad or both. And we realize that we seem to have the same limitations with money, we seem to have a similar thing in relationship.

So, we can ask. There's a tool. We even have a free app. It’s called Who Does This Belong To? So if you're in the middle of like you can ask it to any thought, feeling, and emotion, or any one of like the weird energies and when your mind starts going, if you go, who does this belong to? If it lightens up at all, it’s not yours. Just return to sender with consciousness attached. And one of the biggest things that we can do for ourselves is look back over our lives, and one of the questions I ask people is, what percentage of who, what, where, when, why and how you are, or that you think you are, did you buy from your mom and your dad before the age of two? People get up into the hundreds of thousands of percent and which is interesting because you would think there should only be able to be a hundred percent, I guess we just buy it over and over and over, it’s kind of like if you think about your family life and all the energies that were around, we were aware of all of those, but nobody ever pointed it out as us being aware of something. It was always like, “oh, when I’m around mom, I feel this way.” “When I’m around dad, I feel this way.” “When I’m around both of them, I feel this way.” 

Well, those were all energetics. It’s kind of like we grew up swimming in carrot soup and if you swim in carrot soup for 15, 25, 35, 45, 55 years, somebody pulls you out, you look like a carrot, you smell like a carrot, you taste like a carrot, but you're still not a carrot. But we’ve been swimming in the carrot soup of all of these thoughts, feelings, and emotions and points of view thinking that they belong to us. This is a way of undoing that. It’s one of the things I use to heal myself of depression 22 years ago. Any time any of that would come up, I’d go, who does this belong to? And it would lighten up a little bit and I’d go, okay, not mine. I just tune my radio to that frequency. So, I’d be like, okay, return to sender with consciousness attached. 

Well, you can do that also with things that you bought a long time ago. And let’s say you're having one of those moments where things are not light, you're trying to look at a situation and it’s not, just go, “Who does that belong to?” Whenever I bought this as mine when it wasn’t, POC and POD, which is the short form for the clearing statement which I mentioned earlier, just POC and POD all that. POC and POD. POC and POD. POC and POD. POC and POD. And return to sender. What happens is, probably about 85, maybe 90 percent of the time, you get some lightness, you get a little bit more space which allows you then to grab on to the thread of your reality so you can start to get to the lightness that you get to when you're functioning from what’s true for you.

[00:55:35] Ashley James: You brought up suicide and I think it’s really important to talk on this a little bit because it’s the second leading cause of death for ages 10 to 14 and 15 to 34. This is in the 2020 statistics. It’s a major issue that we’re seeing. Maybe social media is playing a role in increasing this, but you mentioned that if 98 percent of our thoughts and even like suicidal thoughts are not our own, they're coming from other influences, we need to sit down and sort of who’s me and who’s not me. Because so many children are being fed this negativity. Whatever they're being fed, it’s causing them to want to take their own lives. What can you say or what techniques do you teach or at least begin to unfold for us that can help people or we need to recognize that “wow, I’ve been thinking about some pretty dark things, I’ve been going to some dark places,” “wow this is not me, this is not who I am, this is coming from outside”?

[00:56:49] Dr. Dain Heer: Well, I’m glad you brought it up because it is such a big issue and becoming greater every day. If you look at the statistics after COVID, the world suicide rates rising like skyrocketing. So here’s the first thing we have to recognize about a lot of those that are getting to that place or think they might be. These tend to be the sensitive individuals in our world. It’s part of the reason I brought up who does this belong to out of the thousands of tools we have in Access and ways of changing things. Because somebody who’s sensitive, and here’s the other part I need to address also, is so often it’s the sensitive people of the world that are the ones that feel like it’s their responsibility to take the pain and suffering of the world on their shoulders because they perceive it so dynamically and more than people who don’t have that level of sensitivity.

So, a sensitive person, if we look at this idea, and a lot of people when I say 98 percent of your thoughts, feelings and emotions aren’t yours, people are like “yeah, you're crazy,” I’m like, “I know, I thought so too.” So I started using it on myself and I started finding it works with almost every single person that I do it with. We have over a million people that have gone through Access Consciousness classes at this point. And so many of them have gotten freedom from this. But if we can recognize that those people who get to that place are sensitive, what does that mean? Well, their awareness of well, everything around them, energetically, is off the charts.

So, for a “normal” person although I hate that word, for a normal person, their volume knob for picking up other people’s thoughts, feelings, and emotions and their depression and all of that, their volume knob might be at a 1. For some of these highly sensitive people, it’s up at 1000. So, what happens is, very few people recognize this. See, I see this sensitivity as a gift now because I’m one of those people. But also, it used to seem like a curse because I was always the one that was like, can’t you tell that these people are angry? And they're like, “What are you talking about?” 

So, they’ve been so invalidated and there hasn’t been anybody to come along and say “You know what, you’re sensitive,” or ask them. Actually, I would never tell somebody anything about them. I always ask them a question. But if somebody would come along and acknowledge that they have this level of dynamic awareness and what are you aware of, and how much of this is your awareness, how much of this is something you're perceiving, and how much of it is something that’s actually being generated from within you. I will ask people who are going through this. And I can’t tell you the tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of times where I’ve assisted people going through what seemed like depression or anxiety or suicidal thoughts or “I just want to die.” It’s always got a component of them having this level of awareness. One of the things I ask them is, what’s the difference between I’m sad and I’m perceiving sadness? Of course, perceiving it is “it’s there, I’m here”. I am sad is now “it’s here and I am in.” This is one of the crucial distinctions that we haven’t been taught to make that really, our entire perspective could change if we recognize that there's a level of sensitivity that a lot of people have and nobody has ever acknowledged them for it. They just want to take them and get rid of it and put the people on drugs, etc. And there are a number of people that I’ve worked with where they were experiencing something like suicidal thoughts, depression, whatever. They were convinced of the utter wrongness of them because that's the other thing that goes along with this. They’re very sensitive to that energy, that vibration of wrongness that people walk around with and they always want to try to take it away. They don’t want other people to feel wrong.

So, when I say, okay, are you having this or are you perceiving this? They go, “What?” I’m like, okay. I run through the thing with them about sadness. And they go, “Oh.” And I say, so, are you having this or are you perceiving this? They go, “Oh my gosh. I’m perceiving so much of it. It feels like me.” I’m like, “I know.”

Then our next step then is to create the distance between I guess I’ll call it distance, to create the awareness in their world of exactly like you said, what is theirs and what is not theirs. It’s why we develop this idea of if you ask who does this belong to for three days to every thought, every feeling, every emotion, every yuck, every stuck, every weird twisted energy, every mind going crazy, and if it lightens up at all, it’s not yours, return to sender with consciousness attached. At the end of three days, you walk around like you're in a walking-talking meditation. Literally, no thoughts in your head. Like I can walk through any city in the world and I’m glad I have this because I travel a lot facilitating classes and have no thoughts in my head. You know, it’s just in Rome, just enjoying Rome, there was none of the monkey mind because if you’ll do that for three days, you start to break the machine that makes you believe that everything you perceive and are aware of actually belongs to you. 

[01:02:52] Ashley James: And is generated from you. Right? Like, oh, the sadness is me. That makes so much sense. So my background being in neurolinguistic programming and in Time Line Therapy and hypnosis, as you're talking, I’m reminded of Dr. Milton Erickson who he’s sort of the creator of the modern-day, very ultra light state of hypnotherapy where you would just be in conversation with him. And through a conversation, he could put you in a light state of trance and he can slow your heart rate down, slow your breathing down. He would watch your pulse. He was very talented at observation because he had polio twice. He had to learn how to walk three times in his life. He would sit there, as he was crippled and recovering, he watched his younger sibling learn to walk for his first time and he became hyper aware of certain things. Like he could look at you and could tell you what your pulse is because he could count the pulse on your ankle or your neck.

So we’d watch people and as he used hypnotic language patterns just in conversation, like you said, the “normal” people, would be talking to him not really feeling any kind of a different conversation. Okay, this guy talks a little slow. But within minutes, your heart rate would be lower and you would walk out of a session with him much more positive, focused on positive things. He had one man come to him who said “I have to stop drinking. I’m ruining my life.” And this is back in I think in the ‘70s. It was long time ago and he said to the guy, this is in Arizona or in New Mexico, somewhere in the desert, “I want you to go and look at a cactus and tell me how it can survive without drinking water.” He just gave him a thought. Just something to think about, something to look at, and years later, a woman came in and said, “I have to meet you.” And he’s like, “Okay, I have an appointment too but I guess I can meet you now.” She’s like, “No, no, no, I just have to meet the man who told my dad who was beating my mom and destroying our lives and a complete drunk, who couldn’t keep a job. He was told to go look at a cactus. He quit drinking, sobered up, moved us to California, got a job and became an amazing dad and husband. I just had to meet the guy that told my dad to stare at a cactus and his whole life changed.” 

But it’s like a perfect example of this input coming Dr. Milton Erickson, right? It’s an input. It’s outside of us. It’s a conversation. It’s thoughts. But it’s not our own. It didn’t generate from us. And he’s inputting stuff and your critical faculty is allowing it and you’re allowing these thoughts in. Then, it makes positive changes. Well, the same can be for negative. Right? We’re allowing in hypnotic language patterns. Anytime you turn on the radio, watch the TV, listen to other people, go through a grocery store and over here, other people talking, these are all hypnotic suggestions you're allowing in. If you can’t tell the difference between the external world and your internal world. Then you perceive all that external stuff as you. And that would make anyone incredibly depressed and sick especially if they have more empathy, they're more empathetic, they're leaning, like you said, they're sensitive. You use the word “sensitive”, I use the word “empathetic.” But people who are more perceptive, those people are a sponge for everything around them and the if they don’t have the tools like you teach these tools, they’re thinking it’s all self-generated, it’s all them, and they cannot tell the difference. There’s no barrier, there's no boundary between who they are and the outside world. That would be horrible. You think about those who have autism, like over stimulus, it’s just agony inside them. There is no separation between this outside stimulus and the inside world, and it’s just like clattered. Just disruptive of the nervous system. But that's what we’re going through too, all of us. Because we’ve allowed the hypnotic language patterns of the world, the hypnosis of the world to enter us and confuse us and trick us into thinking that that is who we are.

So, excellent. Excellent idea to do. It’s kind of like needing to do the laundry in my bedroom. I don’t know if anyone is like me but there's a laundry pile here on the floor, there's a laundry pile on the bed, there's a laundry pile on the dresser. But it’s like you need to kind of go through the laundry and be like, oh right, there's all these piles of clothing I need to kind of like sort and figure out which is the dirty, which is the clean, which gets hung, which gets put in the drawers. We need to do that inside ourselves. We need to sort the laundry in our own heart, in our own mind, in our own thoughts. And go, is this me? Is this really me? Those beliefs you’ve been holding onto for so long might not be me.

[01:07:56] Dr. Dain Heer: In fact, most of them are not us, which is a little confrontational for some people to hear, but when you're functioning from something that’s not truly you, it’s always heavy. It doesn’t have a lightness, it doesn’t have any peace to it. And yet, we keep trying to take those things and find a way to rearrange them in our head or think if we just do something different or we’d be something different or we say something different and we think something different, then somehow it’s all going to become light rather than going through your house and going, “Holy crap, I have 2000 pieces of laundry and only six of them are mine.” 

[01:08:36] Ashley James: Well, yeah, right, because I’m doing the family laundry. But this is like doing the world’s laundry. You're driving down the street listening to the radio and people are throwing their laundry at you.

[01:08:45] Dr. Dain Heer: Totally. How many times have we had that? As another acknowledgement of this, it’s like, how many times have you been having a great day, things are wonderful, you're happy, you're on cloud 9, man, you're driving to work and all of a sudden you get this ping or this something where you're like, “Oh my God, I’m afraid, or I’m angry,” or, “Oh, I don’t like my husband,” you know, where you probably don’t have that one because of your relationship which is awesome. Okay, but a lot of people do because they're primed for it. It makes sense to them that that could be something that they would feel and then what do they do? They go back and look over their day and look to the last day and look for the moment that justifies that emotion. But what if it’s just somebody driving by you having that very intensely and they're throwing their laundry on your car and in your car? And this occurs all the time and nobody is talking about it. Even when I say it to people, they're like, “Oh, that couldn’t be the case. Somebody would have told me by now.” I’m like, that's why I’m here. I’m telling you. And they’re like, “Oh, it couldn’t be the case. That's just too big. That's too much.” I’m like, “No, it’s actually what goes on.” And I am blessed to work with people and see this concept as it dawns in their world change the exact physical and mental and emotional thing that’s going on for them. But 

[01:10:19] Ashley James: But there's also past unresolved events where we’re holding on to this gestalt of negative emotions from the past, negative emotions that we created, that we had a response to something. It could be anger or sadness. Then, we’re holding onto it and caring it with us. This was years ago, but I remember very distinctively we’re driving on St. Rose Parkway in Las Vegas with my husband. I say something and his response was not what I expected. It was like frustrated, angry, kind of combative. And I’m like, wow, what I said did not warrant that. I look at him and in an instant, I wanted to engage in a fight and defend myself. But instead, I paused and kind of took a breath, and this was years of personal growth work. I was like, oh, finally, I can put a pause in between and go, wait a second, interesting response, not what I expected. Where is this coming from? And he goes, oh, because he kind of started picking a fight with me. He thought I was going to engage in this fight and I just sort of backed off and went, “That’s not mine. I don’t own this.” 

[01:11:29] Dr. Dain Heer: Cool. 

[01:11:31] Ashley James: And it was silence for a few stop lights and then he said, “I was just talking to my ex-wife. Whatever you said, however you said it, whatever angle your face was, whatever it was, I was in a conversation with my ex-wife and I was fighting with her. You were not in this vehicle with me. It was my ex-wife.” And I’m like, wow! That's really amazing that sometimes we’re bringing our past and projecting it onto the current person or current experience, and it’s nothing to do with the now. How does that play into this role of who does this belong to? Because what if it belongs to us but it really doesn’t belong to this circumstance or the person we’re talking to?

[01:12:13] Dr. Dain Heer: Yeah. So a couple of things with that. I just want to acknowledge your response to that because let’s look at the other side. Had you chosen to resist and react, now we would have a fight on our hands that had nothing with either of you, which is where a lot of people are living and then it gets so twisted that it creates such separation. This is always when that occurs. If the fight or if the disagreement or the argument actually has a basis, then if we’re interested of course in becoming more aware, we can almost always get to what’s actually underneath it, if we’re willing to be vulnerable enough and go there. But if it doesn’t, it creates this weird twist that leaves a really bad taste in both people’s mouths and once again, nobody’s ever looked from this place of what if it’s not mine. So, to address your actual question, I just wanted to point this out because I know a lot of people have had arguments with people where they're like, what did I do wrong? What? And this actually explains it and this is why for me, having access to these tools is so valuable which is what is this, what do I do with it, like what is this really? And is it mine? Is it theirs? What do I do with it? Can I change it? And if so, how?

So, another thing that can be helpful in this regard is who am I being? Or, who is this person being? Where you're doing something and you know it doesn’t feel like you and that time you’ll know because we’ve learned, like he said, he was having an argument with his ex-wife, and that was probably something where he learned to be a particular thing for someone based on whatever was considered love in his family or hers, which isn’t necessarily love. But we will do the strangest things because we had people who said they loved us and yelled at us. People who said they loved us and judged us. People who said they loved us and abused us.

So, we’re like, “Oh, I love you, I’ll do the same thing because that's love obviously.” And so, we can ask, who am I being and how old am I being. Then, if it’s a who am I being, get the sense of like, wow, I sound just like my mother right now. Or, this is exactly the energy I saw my mom and dad have with each other. Okay, cool. Well, everything that is, POC and POD which is that clearing statement thing, which goes back to the point of wherever that was created and undoes the polarity of it, allows it to dissolve. So, that can be who am I being, how old am I being. We have so many instances, so many situations we have been involved in over the course of our lives. It doesn’t have to be a really big thing. But if you ask how old am I being, oftentimes you’ll get a sense of an age and then an energy of a situation which is like okay, and then you go, okay, so what happened? Oh, okay, two. What happened at two? Oh, my parents got divorced. Okay. So, what part of this are you playing right now? Is this truly you? Oftentimes that acknowledgment of “it’s not really me”, because the thing that we will fight the hardest for, the thing we will get most intensely defensive about and for, is the thing that we bought when we were younger that is not ours. And it’s very intense when we do that.

So, asking these questions can start to give us some awareness, adding this clearing statement to it and we now have awareness. The clearing statement allows us to undo everything we’ve aligned and agreed with, resisted and reacted to. Everything we’re avoiding and defending that holds it in place as though it’s ours when it wasn’t. 

[01:16:33] Ashley James: When someone is in an intense emotion, I’m going to use myself as an example, because this is first thing that came to mind, but like, I’m homeschooling and I get super frustrated and I know these are not my emotions. I know they’re my mom. I act like my mom so much when I get in a state of frustration. But in the moment, it’s like, it lit up in my neurology. I’m feeling it in my heart. Like my heart is beating and I’m just feeling it through my body. And I want to get back to me. I want to stop being my mom and stop playing that role, I’m going to get back to me. But in the moment, it’s like I got my adrenals going. It’s kind of like asking her to slam on the breaks, right? So, what do you have as a technique for doing that state change, doing that shift? Like, you're shifting from the fifth gear to the first gear, right? And so, in the moment though, there's a little resistance like I don’t want to give this up. There's like this righteousness, right, in a not-so-great way. This is like getting a little pay-off, like a little payout from being this charged at people. But we know in the back of our mind, we’re now like, hey, you're acting like your mom now, this isn’t really healthy.

So, you have some awareness that you shouldn’t be doing this but at the same time, you're asking your neurology to like, okay, shift down to first gear. What do you have as a technique for helping us to get back into who we are, our authentic self, and separate from and kind of like send it with love back to sender, getting back to who we are and acting from those emotions, the intense emotions?

[01:18:21] Dr. Dain Heer: So, number one, we’ve got to have the willingness to not be right in that situation. We’ve got to go “okay, I realize I’m trying to be right here.” And then, do that thing of “Am I truly being me? If not, who am I being?” Two other things you can do. Number one, you go POC and POD everything I did to buy this as mine when I wasn’t. POC and POD everything I’ve created and uncreated as a result. And now return to sender and then POC and POD all that. POC stands for going back to the point of creation of the thoughts, feelings, emotions immediately preceding the decision or the point of destruction of the same, because we can create limitation in two ways. We can create a limitation, a fixed point of view, or we can destroy in that moment what’s true for us and take on something that's not, which is what this is. 

The next thing you can do is use this tool. Everybody out there, you can take some upset that you still have in your world that’s been there maybe for the last few days or weeks, and just do this interesting point of view. I have this point of view. Which is Point of View, by the way. IPOV. Interesting point of view, I have this point of view. Usually, what will happen is it’ll shift a little bit and then again, you go, interesting point of view, I have this point of view. It’ll shift again. Interesting point of view, I have this point of view. Interesting point of view, I have this point of view. Interesting point of view, I have this point of view. Which is what you were doing when your husband was having an argument with his ex while you were there. It was like interesting point of view, it’s okay, no problem, no reaction, no resistance. What this does is it takes us out of our resistance and reaction that we think we are justified for going into when somebody pushes our buttons or brings up something that’s intense. 

Another part of it, we can say interesting point of view, they have this point of view a few times, so that we’re more willing to be in allowance of their point of view. Then, the last one is, interesting point of view that I have this point of view, that they have this point of view. Usually, that creates space. 

[01:21:01] Ashley James: Brilliant. Luckily, we transcribe all these episodes, so listeners, go to It takes us about two weeks or so after we release the episode to all the podcast directories, but you should be able to go back to in a few weeks and we’ll have the transcript up. So, we can go through and read this and then, copy, paste, put it in your cellphone, put it in your notes and put it on sticky notes, put it around the house. And practice it. I just love this idea if we could just clear out the internal laundry. Like you said, you went around Rome just with no thoughts in your head and it’s not that you weren’t there. You were there but you weren’t carrying the world in your head. It was you were just enjoying yourself, you cleared out everyone else. Just you and your head. That's so nice. It’s so peaceful. What a vacation, right? Just you and your head. And how happy we would be removing 98 percent of the world’s depression, suicide, anger, addiction, all this stuff going on. The conflicts that are out there on purpose, right, because the media feeds off of your fear and creates conflict. Right? Instead of unity. And how much of that have we taken on? So just imagine a world where it’s only you and your head and your own feelings instead of taking on the world. 

Beautiful. I love it. I know you have to go. Thank you so much for coming on today and sharing this wonderful information and all the links to everything that Dr. Heer has is going to be in the show notes of today’s podcast at I want to make sure that you come back because this whole time, I’ve been thinking, man, I’d love to do an episode with you around addiction and addiction brain and helping people who are at this stage in their addiction when they're ready to give it up, they want to, or they’re fighting it, and they still keep having those internal fights and they want those tools. I feel like it would be great to have you back on the show for those who are actively working on healing their addiction brain.

[01:23:08] Dr. Dain Heer: Cool. Thank you.

[01:23:10] Ashley James: It’d be great. 

[01:23:10] Dr. Dain Heer: It would be my pleasure.

[01:23:11] Ashley James: Yeah, thank you so much. It’s been great and I can’t wait to talk to you again.

[01:23:15] Dr. Dain Heer: I look forward to it. Thanks, Ashley.

Ashley James: I hope you enjoyed today’s interview with Dr. Dain Heer. Wasn’t he amazing? I just love his work and I can’t wait to have him back on the show to dig deeper into this wonderful topic. Sounds like he’s got a lot of even more tools that he can share with us. I want to make sure that you remember. I want your testimonials, so please, give them to me if you have one. You can email me or come join the Facebook group at to get into the Facebook group, and then just message me there or share it with the group there. Remember to go to to get the foundations of health, all free. Then, check out the structured water device. Go to Use the coupon code LTH. Check it out. If you get one, I want to hear what you think, come into the Facebook group and let us know. I’d love to hear your journey with it and what kind of results you get with it. Awesome. Have yourself a fantastic rest of your day. Thank you so much for sharing this podcast with those you care about and helping to end people’s suffering because this suffering is needless and I want people to have that experience of true health inside them mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually. I want that for them. So let’s keep sharing this podcast and helping as many people as possible to learn true health.

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