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Microdosing Psilocybin Mushrooms Therapy
In this episode, Eric Thorton will share with us today about microdosing psilocybin mushrooms and how it helps the body to heal physically, mentally, and emotionally. We will also discuss where to find doctors who support these mushrooms and where to find them.
[0:00] Intro: Hello, true health seekers. And welcome to another exciting episode of the Learn True Health podcast. Today we have back on the show Eric Thorton. He has been a repeat guest. What an interesting, interesting guest he is. If you haven't heard of my episodes with Eric Thorton, I urge you to go back and listen to them. You can find all of them easily by going to learntruehealth.com and typing in Eric Thornton. And all of the episodes that we've been in will pop up on my website.
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Enjoy today's interview. It's such a unique topic. It's so cool to explore these wonderful, unique perspectives. Thank you so much for being a listener. And thank you so much for sharing these episodes. And I have a feeling you're going to be sharing this episode with someone because it's quite interesting and remarkable. This concept of microdosing psilocybin mushrooms to be able to heal mentally and emotionally. And so we explore all that in today's interview.
Welcome to the Learn True Health podcast. I'm your host, Ashley James. This is Episode 386.
We're back here with Eric Thorton. We were able to figure out the audio issues from the last episode. So today we're sounding so much better than last time.
[3:52] Eric Thorton: Great to be here.
[3:53] Ashley James: Yeah. Great for me to be here, too, in your healing studio here in Cottage Lake, Washington. It is always a pleasure to be here and join you for another very interesting interview. And today is going to be -
[4:06] Eric Thorton: A little out of this world.
[4:10] Ashley James: A little out there, man. A little out there. When you first shared with me that clients of yours are using small doses - microdoses -
[4:19] Eric Thorton: Microdoses, yes.
[4:20] Ashley James: - of the psilocybin mushrooms. Psilocybin mushrooms, the psychedelic or magic mushrooms but microdoses under the care of a physician that they're having outstanding results in healing deep trauma - deep wounds and wounds and trauma that were unable to be resolved in any other therapy.
[4:49] Eric Thorton: Including here.
[4:50] Ashley James: And so your guides shared with you, right?
[4:54] Eric Thorton: Yes, I did.
[4:54] Ashley James: So yeah, I'd love for you to just kind of take us back to that moment when your guides first said, "Hey man. You need to do some shrooms."
[5:03] Eric Thorton: First of all, I've never done shrooms. So I was a little shocked. But I was working with a client who had done shrooms, just sitting talking with the client. And the guide to go, "You need to do that." And I literally - I was like - so they call that gobsmacked. I was speechless. It got me like, "Really?" And they go, "Yes. That will really help you out. You have some deep stuff that you've seen but you can't get to." And I go, "Okay. So if you recommended it." So then I found out the procedures and finding a doctor that did this and went to him. And we did this microdosing. I had five major breakthroughs, major breakthroughs, including one where I got - my little brother died when I was eight and I lost all my memory of that. I stuffed the memory so it was less painful. And so I didn't have any of the memories from eight backward. And they all came back to me. Every single memory. Including down to, literally, the smell of things. And it's all there. I can access any moment at any time. I was - I guess the word I used earlier, I was gobsmacked with that too. So anyway, so then I mentioned it and clients started to go, "Oh, yeah. Done that. Done that." I can find places and do their thing. Some recommended the doctor.
[6:35] Ashley James: When you said find places and do the thing, what do you mean by that?
[6:39] Eric Thorton: There are persons on their own. They can - I recommend the doctor and they've found places to get the doctor recommendation go to them. And then they found other places to buy the psilocybin in microdosing amount.
[6:57] Ashley James: So like Colorado where it's legal now, and Canada. Many of the states and many countries, it's not illegal even in micro doses. So we're having a hypothetical conversation right now because we are talking about a controlled substance for many listeners. We're depending on where they're located.
[7:16] Eric Thorton: And I can't recommend that. I can recommend the doctor. But I can't recommend illicit activity.
[7:25] Ashley James: Right. And the doctor you worked with is really going out there on a limb because he's working with a controlled substance.
[7:32] Eric Thorton: Yes. And in Washington State they - and Oregon, I understand, they're trying to pass that it can be used in therapeutic situations. Because as you've read, the FDA is studying them.
[7:45] Ashley James: Right. I have it up on my phone right now. About a year ago, the FDA approves magic mushrooms, the psilocybin therapy trial for treatment resistant depression. And there's tons of trials. That's just one of them that I wanted to quote because if you're doing microdoses, it's not like a street drug where your intention isn't to get high.
[8:05] Eric Thorton: Correct. You do it, actually, it's recommended that you take the microdose right before bed. Not when you're awake. And then the breakthroughs, sometimes they can come to you in a dream. But they usually happen a day or two, a week, or a month later. My last one was three months after I was done with the microdosing.
[8:30] Ashley James: That's amazing.
[8:30] Eric Thorton: It is. It's absolutely phenomenal. But all the things that I've noticed with clients who found their own route with that, it woke up past life for me. And I've done it and I facilitated that. And one client she said, it changed her personality completely. She was an anxious person all the time. Couldn't get out of it. And she's not now.
[9:02] Ashley James: So I did shrooms twice when I was a teenager. Right?
[9:07] Eric Thorton: That's two more times than I did it.
[9:10] Ashley James: For me, I mean, it was the point - it was with a bunch of friends. It was New Year's. The first time, I went over a friend's house and he's like, "Hey, I got these fun things to munch on." And then we watched some scary movies. And then I was super duper afraid. I think it was like [inaudible 00:09:29] was one of the movies. It was really scary. And then I went to bed and I was really grateful the movie was over. And that's it. But the whole point was to get high. And then the second time was we drink mushroom tea at New Year's, like 1996 or something. And that was, again - and that was a really positive experience. We all just hung out and laughed. And for me, that was a much better experience than a bunch of us getting really drunk. Because I never liked alcohol. So you know, I felt like much more in control. But everything was just very pleasurable. But when you're doing the doses intended to get you high or hallucinate, do they still have the emotional breakthroughs or the emotional breakthroughs only happen in microdoses?
[10:19] Eric Thorton: Well, the emotional breakthroughs - there's several things that come into play here. One, you mentioned you did it when you were a kid. So someone went out and picked mushrooms. Well, that's a fresh mushroom. And it's inconsistent with the amount of psilocybin in it. There's many different types. In fact, all mushrooms have psilocybin in it. And fact is, it's recommended by the people I work with to cook even [inaudible 00:10:49] before you eat them because heat kills the psilocybin. So your psilocybin tea, you hardly have any psilocybin in it because the heat - it was hot water they put on mushroom, kills the psilocybin.
[11:04] Ashley James: And maybe that's why the second time was more enjoyable because it was -
[11:08] Eric Thorton: Because it was a smaller dose. And then there is of the types that you can find in nature. Ones that will kill you. And there's ones that I understand that's been my experience with clients, too, there's ones when you touch them, they give you a purple color. And when you touch them, they give you a black color. Well, they're both used to get high. But the ones that are with the black color are more for medical therapy. From what I was been told and my research online for things like Parkinson's and that type of therapy. Were the ones with the purple color, when they're fresh, are the ones used for psychological therapy. And now, I am not quoting anybody that's just been my experience.
[12:00] Ashley James: Right. Well, there's many kinds of mushrooms.
[12:04] Eric Thorton: And you can die from mushrooms.
[12:05] Ashley James: Oh, absolutely. If you go out and you start picking mushrooms -
[12:09] Eric Thorton: Right. So this is not for any endorsement of going out and picking mushrooms.
[12:13] Ashley James: Right. Unless you know what you're doing.
[12:15] Eric Thorton: Even then, your mushrooms are inconsistent. And so with the microdosing, they test the amount of psilocybin in naturally dried mushrooms. And then they grind it up to get the right amount in it for the medicinal side in the capsule. And so it's scientific. So you get the certain amount of psilocybin with every single dose. And when you go and you just take a fresh one, you don't know how much you're getting. So I have noticed, I have one client who found their way - God only knows - got ones with the black. And that, what I've noticed, causes the brain a lot of problems for a long period of time. And she noticed that too.
[13:05] Ashley James: What do you mean by problems?
[13:06] Eric Thorton: It caused her actually more anxiety.
[13:09] Ashley James: So there are side effects.
[13:10] Eric Thorton: There are side effects, right. And it caused her body feeling neurological problems. And found she got it from some weird source. And I just went, "What did you take?" Because they were showing me she was taking the wrong thing. And it's caused her problems. So we've been working with that.
[13:32] Ashley James: So your guide showed you that she was taking the wrong one.
[13:34] Eric Thorton: Yes. Right. And I didn't know the difference at the time.
[13:39] Ashley James: I wonder if there was mold. Like, if there's some kind of contamination. Was it the mushroom itself that was just not the right one for her? Was it contamination that was harming her?
[13:48] Eric Thorton: That, I can't answer. I have no idea. As the guide just said she took the wrong one. She didn't get microtherapy. She went and she got some from a person who grows them for his Parkinson's disease. And it was like, that's uncontrolled. There's no science in that. There's no measuring the amount. There's no looking for toxins in it. It's just picking it and putting it in your mouth. And that's not really - to me, that's not really a safe practice in any way, shape, or form.
[14:23] Ashley James: Right. My husband, the man sitting beside me right now - he's waving at you guys by the way. He's smiling and waving and nodding at the microphone.
[14:33] Eric Thorton: With a knowing in his eyes.
[14:34] Ashley James: He's very kindly saying hello with his eyes. He's shy. And you were just saying about when you were a kid, you'd go to Marymoor Park with your dad to do cycling and that you'd see all kinds of people picking mushrooms. And this is a big park in Redmond, Washington. And then, Eric, you mentioned that psilocybin -
[15:01] Eric Thorton: Psilocybin mushrooms, as far as the ones that you would use in therapy, grow - my understanding - is they grow where there are people. They don't just grow out in the middle of the woods where there's no people. Now, there could be many factors for that, like, you know, they grow if you have cows. They like cow pies. When there's people and herd of cows. So there could be reasons for that, that they like that type of an environment. And they're usually out in the open. They're not in the deep woods, the type that you would use for that. But I've never picked them. I've just been told and read that they grow where there's people because they're for people. They're designed for people.
[15:46] Ashley James: It's a beautiful metaphor.
[15:44] Eric Thorton: It's a beautiful metaphor, correct.
[15:47] Ashley James: Regardless of whether it's true or not, it's a beautiful metaphor. Because I've heard this from several experts that when you find a poison in the woods - so you come across a plant that would harm you - that nearby is the cure. That nature is in such balance that for animals and humans - us being also animals - that wherever there's a poison, nearby is the cure.
[16:12] Eric Thorton: That's [inaudible 00:16:12].
[16:14] Ashley James: Yeah. So the thought that these mushrooms that can actually help us heal anxiety and heal trauma from our past and allow us to access memories to work through them with a professional that these mushrooms grow near us.
[16:31] Eric Thorton: Right. So my sons found them in the front yard at certain years. I'm going, "Why only certain years?" You know, I don't know enough about the taxonomy of mushrooms to understand when they grow and when they don't.
[16:47] Ashley James: Or they're sensing your stress levels.
[16:50] Eric Thorton: Maybe.
[16:53] Ashley James: "Eric really needs these. Let's grow in the front yard."
[16:58] Eric Thorton: I've never done them recreationally. But mushrooms, from what I've seen with my clients, it gets into places that the conscious and current personality of the individual will not allow them to go. Period. End of subject. as far as normal healing, normal psychotherapy, and things like that. That's why the FDA is doing the research on anxiety. Because it allows the body to go there. And then you go with someone that can help you work through it, do the energetic work with it, and it's amazing what takes place. And I've noticed with the clients I've worked with, that they'll get effect without the work here that we do. But then we go in and get into this amazing spaces for these people to change who they are just almost overnight out of the issues that they have found detrimental.
[18:11] Ashley James: I wonder if the microdosing of the psilocybin affects neuroplasticity. So neuroplasticity being - for those who don't know - it's like if you've done a habit, if you've done a pattern in your life, whether it's an avoidance pattern or whether it's anxiety or depression, you do a pattern. Every time you do a pattern, the neurons in the brain wire in that way deeper and deeper and deeper. And it's harder and harder to break that old habit. Like someone who's smoked cigarettes for 40 years versus someone who just took up smoking can quit. They haven't ingrained the habits into their neurology on a deep level versus someone who smoked for 40 years. It's like part of who they are.
[18:57] Eric Thorton: Well, that's the mechanism. I guess they're trying to find it with the research. But it's got to be something like that. It's never really been looked at. The guys right now are semi-affirming. So you're on the right track.
[19:08] Ashley James: I feel like the word is neuroplasticity. That it's -
[19:12] Eric Thorton: So it allows access. So that would be allowing access to the neuroplasticity to get that to change. And they create a better environment for the changing of those things. That would make sense. It would have to be researched. And that type of thing, you could probably seen SPECT scans and such within the brain.
[19:30] Ashley James: Right. Did the guides have anything they want to share about this therapy or about this topic?
[19:37] Eric Thorton: I don't know how to answer that. Because I asked them questions and they affirmed we're not.
[19:41] Ashley James: Right. I know it's kind of like handing the mic off to the guides, "Here, just talk."
[19:45] Eric Thorton: They don't do that.
[19:46] Ashley James: They don't do that.
[19:47] Eric Thorton: Unless I'm in deep meditation with them then we have conversations. But from this point of view, it's me ask the question. And that's why it's so important for me to be able to verbalize and understand what's going on a little bit with the client so I can ask the correct questions to the guides. And as you know as an interviewer, one question leads deeper and deeper and deeper. And that's how it works with guides.
[20:15] Ashley James: That's very cool.
[20:16] Eric Thorton: But like they said, "Yeah. You're on the right track."
[20:21] Ashley James: With the neuroplasticity.
[20:21] Eric Thorton: With the neuroplasticity.
[20:21] Ashley James: Very cool. Yes.
[20:22] Eric Thorton: So it will be interesting to see what the researchers find.
[20:26] Ashley James: Right. Right. Well, you know, I hope that the drug companies are not just trying to do all this research so they can make an artificial drug they're going to charge $1,000 a pill for.
[20:38] Eric Thorton: You bet they are going to do that.
[20:42] Ashley James: I hope we'll have access to the natural psilocybin in the microdoses. So tell me about it. So you take the one capsule -
[20:51] Eric Thorton: You take one capsule right before bed.
[20:54] Ashley James: And you go to bed. And it's, again, a microdose that they've done in a lab. They've tested it. So it's like a certain milligrams or microgram.
[21:00] Eric Thorton: So it's consistent and there's no poisons with it. There's no fungus with it. There's nothing to - the theory is, there's nothing to give you that minimizes any reaction - adverse reaction you might have. And it's controlled because it will give you the same - the 300 milligram will be consistent, or 200 milligrams or 150 milligram, capsules will be consistent throughout your therapy. Where if you just took a mushroom, put it on its scale, and it said 300 milligrams, well, that's fine. But it's not consistent to the next mushroom and the next one.
[21:37] Ashley James: Well, because you don't know how much the active constituents are in each mushroom. So you do want to have the access to the ones that have been tested and impurity.
[21:48] Eric Thorton: Purity and source. So anyway, you do this every third day, so twice a week.
[21:59] Ashley James: So when you went to bed that night, were you a little nervous?
[22:02] Eric Thorton: Yeah. I've never done - I don't do things like that. I'm just not that kind of person. And it's like, it's fine. I think it's great when people do it. Because like I've worked with people with iowaska, you know, all the other POD and rest of the other ones. I forget. But I've never done them myself. And so I was a little apprehensive. And I just woke up and I didn't even know I took anything. I had no idea.
[22:27] Ashley James: You didn't wake up in the night or have weird dreams or you feel high when you woke up?
[22:32] Eric Thorton: No, no. Not at all. And I understand if you were to, you'd be within an hour of taking the actual dose. But it's -
[22:42] Ashley James: If someone took it during the day, would they felt high or is it certain microdose that you don't?
[22:46] Eric Thorton: I had one person said he felt kind of like he had smoked a little bit of pot. He took it during the day. And that was it. There was no hallucinations. There was no nothing. You just felt a little bit aloof. But that was it. So it was my fourth dose where I actually woke up and was like, "Oh, mushrooms." And I just went back to sleep. But the breakthroughs came the next morning or the next day.
[23:23] Ashley James: So take us back to the next morning. So after the first dose -
[23:27] Eric Thorton: After the first dose -
[23:27] Ashley James: - what was your first breakthrough?
[23:29] Eric Thorton: The first breakthrough was the second dose. And that's the one where the image that was given me was - which I mentioned earlier - the eight year old. But I was in a jar. And this little eight year old was in a jar on a shelf. And he was screaming to get out. And I'm going, "What?" So then I thought - and I heard from - so I heard the instructions to open the jar and let him out.
[23:59] Ashley James: When you hear instructions from your guides.
[24:00] Eric Thorton: From my guides. Right. And I said okay. So out pops this guy and he jumps - this is a vision I'm having. And he wants to come back. So then I did EMDR [inaudible 00:24:16] and talked about it and worked it through and brought him back in with the help of the guides. I couldn't bring him back in without the help of the guides. And when he came back in, doing the therapy, and writing and journaling, and really respecting the gift, that's when all the memories were set on the back.
[24:39] Ashley James: What's EMDR?
[24:41] Eric Thorton: Eye Motor Desensitization And Realization.
[24:43] Ashley James: Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
[24:44] Eric Thorton: These are both - their hypnotherapies. And that was where then it woke up my working with it from past life. And then I got to see, "Okay. This is what has to be done for people if they're going to do this." And I thought, "Oh, well. That's never going to happen."
[25:07] Ashley James: What? Your clients aren't going to do this?
[25:09] Eric Thorton: They're not going to do this. They're not going to come in. They've already done it, found it themselves, har about it. But people are talking about this stuff now. And then clients are doing this stuff. And all of a sudden they're showing up at my door. And I'm like, "All right. Well, there you go." And I'm just working with the after effects of their decisions. And it's phenomenal breakthroughs. And it's helping people. They're doing it for depression for the study for the government. But my understanding and from what people are telling me, it reduces bipolar and schizophrenia for up to a year so you don't have to take the medication. And it's along the lines of LSD therapy. It's the exact same therapy. And you can also - I don't want to mention this one. But there is - ecstasy is a hallucinogen. And if when it's microdosed, it can do the same thing as LSD psilocybin.
[26:20] Ashley James: Well, they're doing this in Silicon Valley. They're doing this in San Francisco, in the Bay Area. It's big. It's big in the tech world. So I'm sure they're doing it here in Seattle. It's big in the tech world to microdose LSD, microdose ecstasy, microdose mushrooms in order to expand their mental abilities. There's this 19 year old that we follow online, who has made how much millions - millions of dollars now trading cryptocurrency. And he microdosed LSD and overnight was able to understand a whole new level of how the system works and how to trade. And then he teaches it. And that these people who are like -
[27:04] Eric Thorton: He's breakthrough.
[27:05] Ashley James: Well, he had a huge breakthrough. He's a 19 year old. He's never been trained in it formally. And he basically outsmarted all these guys who, like, have PhDs in math, who were able to - they developed this software to watch how the markets work. And he just looked at it on LSD and it was like seeing the matrix. But it was a microdose. It wasn't like full on, you know. I hear these stories all the time that people are using nootropics or using some form of - hopefully naturally derived -
[27:39] Eric Thorton: Hopefully.
[27:40] Ashley James: -- substance to expand that neuroplasticity for the desire to be even better at what they do in the tech world. And be even more creative.
[27:54] Eric Thorton: You have to be part of this. You said "their desire." That's very important, is you just take it recreationally. You're not directing the wisdom of the mushroom, those are the words I've used or I've been told. There's a wisdom. And recreational, well, it's going to give you recreational wisdom. But if you're going after something and you're open to it, and you journal about it, and you set intention before you even do the microdosing, that's when you get the effects. If apparently, the mushroom - or your brain knows, I guess it would be the call to wisdom of the mushrooms, but - okay. But your brain knows what to do with it with you setting the intention. So doing it recreational, like you had done twice, versus the guy you just mentioned, he had a purpose. So he was able to open up the neuroplasticity of that part of his brain. So from my understanding is that does need to be done. There's a procedure that's done. That is being mindful, setting intention, journaling before, journaling after, getting professional feedback. And that's what I've gotten from the doctors. And then we take it a step farther.
[29:21] Ashley James: Yeah, when people come to you -
[29:22] Eric Thorton: When people come to me we can get into that. Get in deeper and change and work with and create, if there's predatory energy, for example. It's not going to allow your brain to change. And if we can get rid of that then we're going to allow it to change. If there's a part of me where we did a little soul retrieval. We had to respect what took place, the severity of why that part of me was jarred or canned, whatever. And work its way back into my life where our normal journey doesn't get there, whether we didn't get rid of the predatory energy, the pain the child had, the trauma, the predatory energy from other people that were around me at the time, et cetera. It was all there in the jar. And when you pull that back out, you have to dissect it and get it down to the exact thing that you're working with.
[30:25] Ashley James: Right. And so that's why it's so important to work with professionals like you and the doctor that - hopefully, the doctor that prescribed is also a therapist so that they're able to help you process things. But it's important for you to have that intention journal and then work with someone like you who can help to work with them on the energetic level and process it.
[30:50] Eric Thorton: Well, at least recommend - because you're setting the intention, if you want psychological changes, you should be getting whether - you should be working with somebody to help you explore those changes so you can get them and access them. So if you're just taking them and not doing anything with it, you're not going to get the depth. Period. I mean, that's the fact of anything. Looking at a book doesn't get the information in your brain from reading the book. So it that same correlation. You've done it, you're looking at the cover, "Is that nice?" Some people might like to get high from it or whatever. But you're just looking at the cover of the book. It can show all sorts of details in the picture but you're not absorbing it. And so that's where the therapist comes in. And I can help people with that or find a therapist that's going to help you explore that.
My therapist, I'm bringing the breakthroughs into therapy to see if I can squeeze out a little more even. I mean, it's a different perspective. And as you know it takes a village. And I am a firm believer in that. So why not bring in to my therapist? And the therapist just went, "Yeah. That's great." So we're bringing a little more out of each thing. Because like the child that popped out that we pulled back, he was a full person. Somebody did some more therapy lately and it was sound therapy. Which might be someone you're interested in interviewing. But he looked at that moment. I brought it to him. And he goes, "Well, there's guilt there." And I go, "Huh. I never thought of that." And he goes, "I just see guilt. I don't know what it's attached to." But he goes, "I see guilt." And he did some music with it and it brought up - because I was born with these gifts on. I looked at it and I asked my guide, I go, "The guilt of this eight year old." And they go, "Well, an eight year old doesn't have guilt." I mean, they can feel guilty but they can't be guilty. They're still innocent.
[3:14] Ashley James: Well, what about survivor's guilt? When a loved one dies, we can feel guilty that we were the ones that lived and they died.
[33:24] Eric Thorton: But an eight year old doesn't have that depth. And I look back at that and there was no guilt. And there was afterward and there was guilt from the experience and the benefits that I got from that time of him passing.
[33:44] Ashley James: You felt guilty for gaining benefit from his passing?
[33:48] Eric Thorton: Yes. But not -
[33:50] Ashley James: As an adult?
[33:50] Eric Thorton: As an adult but not as a child. But of course, other people may have felt guilty because of the situation he drowned. And I took that guilt on. Because I am a healer. And it was from close loved ones. And I saw that and it was like, "Oh." I meditated. I went to my guides. They said - and had kind of conversation. I said, "Yeah. There is guilt. But it's not your guilt. You took it on." And then I looked at that and I felt it in my body. And sure enough, and I came out of this really bad spot I have in my back. And it was like - and then the muscle started to shift and soft it up, because I have muscle spasm in a certain area of my back. And that was just three days ago. And it's like I'm sleeping much better. And bringing this to and being honest and upfront with another practitioner, his point of view allowed access because I have a more verbal connection for me to go, "Okay. What is this?" And I was able to get a yet another benefit from the mushroom therapy. I can't say enough about it as far as for what it's helped me with.
[35:32] Ashley James: But it's not a cure at all. You don't just take it and then go about your business. It opens the door and you have to walk in and you have to got to do the work.
[35:42] Eric Thorton: You have to do the work.
[35:44] Ashley James: And you are like an amazing healer. And you're going to other healers because they're getting different - they're allowing different perspectives. And the guides are just going to do everything for us. You can't just sit there and be like, "Okay. Fix me." We can't give away our free will. We have to go and live and explore and connect with other healers and the therapist and they help us to - they help us to see deeper but we've got to do the work.
[36:14] Eric Thorton: We have to do the work. You mentioned free will and this is one of those pet peeves of mine. People go, "Well, it all has to be done in free will." Of what? People go, free will of the conscious personality, free will of the subconscious personality, free will of the child personality, or free will of the soul's personality. The body wants everything level, kind, sweet, everything. We all want that. But that's not the purpose of life. The free will we're looking at is to stay within the free will of the soul. It's not the free will of the body. And at first I didn't get that until I realized just how weak the body is. The body is a tool. And it keeps going to this place of neutrality trying to achieve that. It is in that process of trying to go there that we have the learning and the wisdom. And as soon as we get there, something else goes. Because if you're in that neutral place, you're in neutral.
[37:27] Ashley James: Homeostasis.
[37:28] Eric Thorton: Homeostasis. You're not growing.
[37:28] Ashley James: It's like purgatory. You're not growing.
[37:30] Eric Thorton: Right. You're not growing. You're sitting there not growing, what's the use? The soul is here to learn. So it's the free will of the soul that we look at. And this seems to - and I promote this in everything I do, it takes a village. And so you have to be able to go and sit there innocently with people and their gifts. And even when people call in, we check to see if I can be used to help there or not within their free will. And if they're not there, I don't know. They're not there or we're not a match. It's not, they're not there. It's just we're not a match.
[38:12] Ashley James: Right. You're not like, "You're not good enough for me."
[38:15] Eric Thorton: No. Sorry. If you implied that, I mean I didn't mean to say that. Butt it's like, "No. It's just we're not a match." My gifts - why spend the money where you're not going to get the most for your buck.
[38:25] Ashley James: I really respect how you work with people. So when my listeners call in before you guys work together because you can work through Skype very effectively.
[38:38] Eric Thorton: And we are doing in person [inaudible 00:38:40].
[38:40] Ashley James: Or people can come in person if they choose to, which is also great. But you're very effective over Skype also. Because it's energy work.
[38:50] Eric Thorton: It's energy work.
[38:50] Ashley James: But it's fun to see you in person. It's fun to be here.
[38:52] Eric Thorton: It is. It's fun to work with people in person. I love it.
[38:55] Ashley James: But when they call in, you meditate and it takes - sometimes it takes a few days. And you talk to their guides. And your guides and their guides have a little [inaudible 00:39:05] with you. And you figure out if it would be in their best interests to work with you.
[39:12] Eric Thorton: Right. And it's their best interest. And remember it's the best interest of the soul. It's not the body. What the body wants is different -
[39:23] Ashley James: Homeostasis.
[39:23] Eric Thorton: -- with homeostasis. It's not what the soul needs. So we see if this perspective can help them or not. Sometimes, I guess, you would call it - they say yes, but it will be limited. And so then I tell the patient that and the client that. And because of tightly held beliefs. So sometimes they say yes. But it may be just one session. Or yes, but maybe two sessions, or no. But it's pretty rare. But once in a while they do say no. And people that call in that just want a magic bullet to make everything better, well, sometimes that happens. But most of the time it's a little work. Yeah. So like you mentioned, a friend that had done the iowaska for a number of times to help her immune system. Well, it helped her. That's terrific. And there's no one in the US that probably would have recommended that as far as a professional doctor or somebody.
[40:40] Ashley James: Right. Yeah. She went all the way to Peru. And I just published that episode. But she went all the way to Peru and had like, I think, 27 doses of iowaska. She's on the mend. And she went for - she wanted to help her body, help her immune system, help her physical body heal. And then she started seeing emotional, spiritual energetic benefits from it as well.
[41:05] Eric Thorton: Right. Well, iowaska, it helps open us up but it's more of the consciousness. Versus I have found iowaska doesn't get in the same way as microtherapy. It has it's -
[41:21] Ashley James: Microdosing.
[41:22] Eric Thorton: Microdosing. Versus the major dosing, which gives you a hallucinogenic and body high and to loosen through all your whole body. You understand. But I worked with people who've done iowaska and they can get in trouble energetically. But we can also repair that and bring it back. And even make iowaska look at those journeys and see what benefit we can pull out of those. And sometimes it's pretty amazing. Sometimes I have ran into it that the person is just a drug addict and they're substituting ayahuasca for heroin. And it's like, "Okay. Well, that's how deep they are and that's fine." But we're not going to pull anything else out of it. But if they had strong intention when they did it - personal intention - we can pull quite a bit out of the journey that they had in South America. I woke up past life where I've done this before with people, you know, 500, 600 years ago. So it's a different story today.
[42:29] Ashley James: So you were a shaman.
[42:30] Eric Thorton: I was a healer that did iowaska [inaudible 00:42:35].
[42:35] Ashley James: In the Amazon?
[42:36] Eric Thorton: Actually, it was in what would be -
[42:41] Ashley James: Central America. central
[42:43] Eric Thorton: Kind of central - the Amazon Basin. And I remember the past life. But I didn't - it wasn't woken up as to what I did. And part of it was for people that were bipolar, had mental issues. We did. I [inaudible 00:42:58] journey and followed them through the journey and helped them through the journey. Where today's facilitators, they call them shaman. But they're not. They're facilitators. And so because of that, it can be a bit dangerous. And so I've never recommended it. I've seen people that have done it, then we've taken it and worked with it. But I've known people that have been damaged by it as well. Because the facilitators are trained and then they're given the title shaman. And they're not born a shaman.
[43:42] Ashley James: With their gifts on.
[43:43] Eric Thorton: With their gifts on. They are people that have learned techniques. And techniques don't get in there and can't work with hallucination. They can't work. They don't see what is actually going on in that person's mind to help them. To work with them in the little fine - working with them one-on-one and being there and see what they're seeing and experiencing what they're experiencing and refining it and telling them where to go and what to do and what to reach for. That doesn't happen in South America. Which is what I used to do a long time ago, you know, hundreds of years ago, was I would sit with each individual and work with them and literally be with them in there and experiencing what they're experiencing. But fully aware and conscious. And then we maximize it for them.
That was fascinating to see that. The level I did it in the past life. And then bring that to people after they were done with the experience. Because here, that's what we have to do. It's amazing how the little - the fine tuning that can be done which is very important. And you have to have a very amazing facilitator to do that that you can trust. Because they can fine tune it according to their ego. So they have to listen so that they will hear the other person's guides and say, "Okay. What do we do with this nuance? And what do we do with this nuance?" Because otherwise, they're working out of ego and they're going to install their - and they're going to see the individual who's working their problems as a problem when it's not. It's a beginning of a journey or a breakthrough.
But the person's own experience, the facilitator would say, "Oh. That's an issue. We must get rid of that." Versus the guy goes, "No. Okay. Now, let's take it to this step or this step or this step. So it's a very different experience, that's all I'm saying. When you're working and working with it very specifically and experiencing the same thing the person is experiencing.
[45:57] Ashley James: It's kind of frustrating, many of us can't talk directly to our guides like you can. It's kind of like, "What's the point of having guides if we can't talk to them?" Like, how do they guide us if we can't talk to them?
[46:11] Eric Thorton: Well, the interesting thing is, is my guides don't guide me. They'll tell me, "Okay. Eric, you're in danger" or something like that. Which is a great tool. There's no question about that.
[46:26] Ashley James: Because of life.
[46:27] Eric Thorton: But with my problems, my personal problems, my human problems, they don't give me the answers. Because it's the journey that you find the answers. If they give me the answers, it's just like going through to the dictionary to learn how to pronounce a word. You try it three weeks later and you can't pronounce it again. Because you've just been given the answer. There's no wisdom with it to hold it in your brain. So that's what most people want, they want to talk to their guide so they can go, "Well, can you take care of this knee pain for me." And they go, "Oh, sure." Bam. And it's done. Well, what was the purpose of the knee pain them? So they've just eliminated the purpose of your knee pain, which was growth. So guides don't do that. Things that aren't guides will, but the guides will not do that.
[47:14] Ashley James: What do you mean by things that aren't guides?
[47:16] Eric Thorton: Predatory energy. They will give you answers to things. Like I had a client that said they went to this local guru. And they met each other at this meeting. And he said, "You and you have to get married." And they went and did it. Because this guru was popular. Oh, it was a marriage made in hell. And they didn't - they just learned how to be miserable. And I was like, "That was not a guide. A guide will not tell people to get married."
[47:55] Ashley James: Right. Because that eliminates total free will of the soul.
[48:00] Eric Thorton: Free will of the soul. And it causes karma. It causes sin. I mean they had a whole bunch - a whole slew of bad experiences. And I look at bad experiences as good because if you can turn them into something good. Well, I guess it did. It taught them that everybody out there who says they're a spiritual person, they're spiritual but who are they connected to? There's no discernment out there in the new age. And that was ego. And that's one of the ways you tell is, if they're making ego based statements when you're in therapy in doing that.
[48:39] Ashley James: I imagine most healers or therapists kind of are coming from ego.
[48:46] Eric Thorton: They are. Well, that's - even I have to go through my ego to do that. So it's a tough statement to make. But something that is trying to control is an ego versus something that is not trying to control is presenting.
[49:09] Ashley James: So presenting information versus trying to control your decisions around it.
[49:13] Eric Thorton: Correct. Taking away just providing miracle after miracle after miracle after miracle. That is pleasant for the human homeostasis. But it's not good for the soul's progression. Because you're taking away the wisdom or the purpose of the pain or suffering. Instead of using it and growing from it. So then the pain and suffering becomes irrelevant. And your body gets rid of it. And it's done. And it takes a little more time but it's the level that the healing took place is permanent at that point. Because nothing's coming back. So like if you go to someone who's healing with predatory energy, they'll make the statement, like we talked about earlier, "Well, if you don't heal it, you're at fault." That's an ego statement. And you're blaming someone and you're making them feel inadequate.
[50:18] Ashley James: This was a healer that was -
[50:20] Eric Thorton: That I worked with.
[50:21] Ashley James: That you worked with that was saying that if their clients didn't heal, it was their fault.
[50:27] Eric Thorton: It was their fault. And you run into a lot of that in new age. It's, "Well, you just weren't ready for it." That's a real common statement. You're not ready yet. And it's like, "Well, that's a cop out." You're not ready yet? Well, we look at that as, "Well, why not? What's blocking it? What do we have to learn first?" If we use the term, "So that they can be ready to fix that." And that's where we're very different, is people will come in with these desires and we find a way to - I'm lead a way to get to them eventually. Sometimes it's time to deal within exactly that versus you have to come around the other way and do the homework to get to the actual thing that originally they came in for. And so it takes effort.
[51:27] Ashley James: So everyone's ready.
[51:29] Eric Thorton: Everybody's ready.
[51:31] Ashley James: Everyone's ready, it's just -
[51:32] Eric Thorton: It's just finding the pathway.
[51:32] Ashley James: Yeah. Exactly. What do you got to work on - first, it's kind of like when a sweater becomes that big ball of yarn not like, you know, whatever. I have this big image in my mind of like this impossible, not of yarn. Like, anytime we've tried to make a sweater and then the cat got into it or something. And it's just this impossible giant. It's like, what string do we pull to unravel this mess?
[51:58] Eric Thorton: What's the right one? There's a word for it, I'm forgetting what it is. But just being able to uncover that key point. And that takes effort to get there. And then once you get there, the healing that takes place is permanent. And if you can't get there, it's not going to happen. Whereas someone with predatory energy might go, "Hit the key point, impress the person, how did you know that?" And then they feel better, they get a placebo effect. And then it comes back. And that's when the new age will often go, "Oh, you weren't ready yet. It's not me. It's you, basically." And the [inaudible 00:52:45].
[52:45] Ashley James: Which is installing guilt and shame.
[52:48] Eric Thorton: Guilt and shame and the theory of original sin, that we're not good enough. And to me, I mentioned earlier, I heard someone say one day that, healers create karma so you don't want to go to a healer.
[53:06] Ashley James: Don't go to a healer because it creates karma for you to go to a healer?
[53:10] Eric Thorton: Right. And I'm like, well, I suppose if you got some new age point of view and you could cause healer for the karma - karma for the healer or the individual, either way. If you're making statements that make a person feel bad or inadequate.
[53:30] Ashley James: The healer is putting their garbage or emotional - their emotional baggage on to the client. And the client walks away holding on to negative beliefs about themselves that the healer either installed or reinforced. Then that is creating karma. And for listeners who haven't heard Eric in past episodes, Eric has gone deep into what is karma, how to work through it, what's it purpose. And so it's not necessarily the new age version or definition of what you think karma is. It's actually - it's quite different. It's quite interesting. I definitely recommend listeners to go to learntruehealth.com and search Eric Thornton in the search bar and listen to our past episodes together. Because we've gone into -
[54:18] Eric Thorton: They kind of build on each other.
[54:19] Ashley James: Yeah, they do. They do build - each talk has built on the next one.
[54:22] Eric Thorton: Right. So we're assuming each time that you've listened to the other episodes. Even we were talking about psilocybin therapy. Well, if it's done right, it really helps. If it's done wrong or not complete - I guess wrong is not the right word. Just not a complete - you don't have someone who can really dig in there and see what's going on -
[54:51] Ashley James: So if you're just doing it on your own, you order it from Canada and you start microdosing yourself.
[54:55] Eric Thorton: Right. You start microdosing yourself and you get all these effects and then they do away Then you've just proved yourself that psilocybin doesn't work. Because you didn't do something. That's why I recommend the therapy.
[55:09] Ashley James: Right. It's like saying a key to a host doesn't work because just having the key in your pocket doesn't open the door for you and let you inside magically. So it's opening the neuroplasticity but then you actually have to go in and do the work.
[55:24] Eric Thorton: Do the work. Find the wisdom. Find what it is that happened. It can be from past life. It can be - we've literally done repairs at past life that are depths that are phenomenal. How that past life affects the current life. And we couldn't get out of it before. And we go, it's just because that person's psyche is set up that way. It's not a right or wrong thing. It's just it's set up that way. So we couldn't get in there and now we could. And that being kind and gentle and bringing that up, finessing, listening for the wisdom, listening for the who, what, when, where and why. And so the person can absorb it, experience it, identify the habits. Part of neuroplasticity is identifying those habits and going, "Oh, I'm not there anymore." Giving them an opportunity to bring in another facet of their personality that they just discovered.
So you're replacing - which is what we're doing. It's like if someone has a habit in neuroplasticity, like we talked about, they do things a certain way because they've done it that way for 10,000 times. Well, we can identify that. We can look at it. You can look at the benefits, the non-benefits, et cetera. You can see it. You can roll it around. You can play with it. But until you get in there and actually look at why the habit formed in the beginning.
[57:01] Ashley James: What is it replacing? Or what is compensating for?
[57:05] Eric Thorton: What it's compensating for. Specifically what it's compensating for so you can recognize it inside of you, where are you finding it in your body. Recognize, we actually give you the words. And we go - we've done a little bit with you dusty. It's like we've given you a new place to go with the issue you have so that you can go, "Oh, there's the old issue. And this is the new habit." So it's the same type of thing. You have to dig back to find the old issue. Then you have to find what the guide say would replace it. And then you identify it and then you are in free will. Changing your free will of the body, the consciousness, and the soul.
[57:54] Ashley James: Can you give us an example of someone you've worked with that before they had the psilocybin and then something specific they're working on. Then after the psilocybin. Can you think of a client? Obviously, don't share their name. But think of something like they were able to resolve those habits.
[58:15] Eric Thorton: I had one client that had an issue came up and they called it gluttony. And I've had that for several people. And it's ,like, we saw where it came from, where the habit started. And what specifically triggers that emotional response in that person's brain. Now, we've gone back prior to that experience with them and with that. And we're able to look at it and see it. But we're not able to go there. So we've been -
[58:53] Ashley James: What do you mean by not able to go there?
[58:53] Eric Thorton: Well, we didn't get down to the very, very specific incident combined with this person, combined with a series of instances from past life. When they starved to death in a past life. Another one they were with a - I'm trying to remember here - with an extremely controlling situation where they were rationed food. And then in this life when they were an infant, they were left to be a little more hungry. And so when they were an infant, it triggered the past lives. Not even - they consciously remember it. It triggered the past lives and it formed this subconscious energy which they called gluttony. Because of the reaction to hunger from past lives in this life. Well, prior to that, we could see that mom wasn't really consistent with feeding the baby. And I could see that something from past life was there. But the guides - as I could see the distance. But the guides will say, "No. We're not there yet."
[1:00:18] Ashley James: And then after doing the microdosing psilocybin that person was ready to go there?
[1:00:28] Eric Thorton: And that person went there on their own and saw that experience. And then before they could go, "Yeah. My mom's ADD and blah, blah, blah." But they actually went there and they experienced it. And it opened that porthole up. So when we came here, we saw the experience again. And then the connection to it and what tripped it for this major thing that happened when they were an infant, what tripped it. And that was the past life experience. And it brought forward frequency that allowed predatory energy into it. And that's when it majorly took on a role in that person's life. And they couldn't control their eating.
[1:01:09] Ashley James: So how long ago did you work with this person, weeks or months ago?
[1:01:15] Eric Thorton: That was four months ago.
[1:01:16] Ashley James: And so you were able to go there with them, heal that release the predatory energy.
[01:01:22] Eric Thorton: And they're slowly losing weight.
[1:01:25] Ashley James: And do they feel now in control around food? Or has it shifted overnight? Or is it a process?
[1:01:32] Eric Thorton: It shifted overnight in that they felt - their report to me was that they felt even though they were still eating, it was more of a choice now. It's the choice started naturally coming in. And they didn't fear hunger. And they realized it just started coming to them, a lot of hunger is because we're dehydrated. And they just started naturally drinking water. It was a natural healing. And it just slowly started. I mean, they're still working it. But it's slowly started, the body looking at food and nutrients from a different perspective. Instead of panic about it, it's like, "Oh, well, let's look at that."
[1:02:14] Ashley James: And maybe I could drink a glass of water. Or before it was -
[1:02:18] Eric Thorton: But they just go for the glass of water. They sit with it. They said, "Oh, that's the glutton." And now this is a healthy person. So they sit with it. And then the right thing comes to them. And it's slowly - because they're not affirming the old neural pathways. They're now going, "Okay. There's the neural pathway that was set in, that's the glutton." Versus now the neural pathway is, "Okay. Well, we're not a glutton anymore so we got time." And then they just go and get a glass of water. They don't have to think, "Okay. I got to go get a glass of water." They just go and get a glass of water. Or they'll push the food away. And they put smaller servings on their plate. And that's a natural healing.
If you're fighting it all the time, then you're not healed. So that's the amazing thing. It's just a slow shift in their perspective of food. Because they don't have to keep reaffirming the pattern that was set when they were an infant. They could look at it and go, "That's not me. That came from a combination of past life and this life from circumstances that are beyond my control for this body. And now, I can relax about it. And go, 'Okay. So what's up?'" And they slowly just make different choices. And they've lost - I think they're probably up to seven or eight pounds now with no effort at all. Well, that's a completely flip of the situation. So they're now looking at - and they literally said they can push away." Oh, I've had enough of that."
[1:03:56] Ashley James: Well, the first time I worked with you, I mean, it was major. I think we did ,like, 12 different things. It was pretty big. But you removed three pretty intense predatory energies that I had since I was nine and it was blatant for me. It was clearly blatant. I've talked about it in past episodes. But what I noticed more lately, I'm really getting that I can only eat half as much as I used to. Like, I push the plate away or I'm not going for seconds or I'm taking a smaller portion. There's a restaurant I really liked because you can be whole food plant based at this restaurant. And it's a Mongolian grill, no oil, you can say no oil. And I go and I just get an entire bowl of vegetables and then choose if I want the garlic water on it or something. And they have brown rice. And in the past, I was able to eat three bowls and be like, "Okay. Now I'm full." Now I can barely finish. It's like, one and I'm full. I'm like, "Damn. I mean, this is an all you can eat place and I'm -"
[1:05:05] Eric Thorton: I got to get more. I got to get my money's worth.
[1:05:05] Ashley James: I got to get more. I paid for it. Right. I got to get my money's worth. But I eat one bowl and I'm like, "Whoa. Okay. I'm done." That was great. One bowl of vegetables and a little bit of brown rice and I am done. And so I sat there, I was like, "What has changed?" What has changed? And the only thing that working with you and removing those predatory energies. And it's just amazing that -
[1:05:28] Eric Thorton: Well, it was the predatory energies that kept you in fear going for more or thinking that way to set off your natural regulator. And it's like yours didn't require the mushroom therapy to get there. Which I've worked with a lot of people and it doesn't require that. Just that one person that did. But it's like, "Okay. That's a natural healing." It just starts and that will be with you for the rest of your life. And if you make a choice to eat a lot more again, that's still your choice. And in the end, you can undo - you not undo. You can create a new neural pathway if you want.
[1:06:01] Ashley James: I can choose.
[1:06:02] Eric Thorton: You can choose.
[1:06:03] Ashley James: But if when we have predatory energies, it's like --
[1:06:05] Eric Thorton: You can't choose.
[1:06:07] Ashley James: Yeah. Our choice is being hijacked.
[1:06:09] Eric Thorton: You're being compelled, I call it.
[1:06:11] Ashley James: Right. Yeah.
[1:06:12] Eric Thorton: It's like, "No, no. You need that. Oh, gosh." You just got to.
[1:06:16] Ashley James: And I think it's funny and I mentioned it in past episodes. But I really knew I had a predatory energy when a voice in my head said, "Go eat McDonald's." I'm like, "I eat whole food based. I have eaten McDonald's in nine years or ten years." And it was like, "Chicken nuggets." I'm like, "This is not me." When there's a voice in your head that doesn't align with your personality and it doesn't align with your choices then you know.
[1:06:45] Eric Thorton: And you have something else.
[1:06:46] Ashley James: But it could mask itself for many years. And I thought it was just me. I thought it was a part of me for many years until I changed so much consciously. And that part didn't change. And that the predatory energy didn't change. But I changed so much. So I went, "Wow, that's really not me anymore." And so why is this part of me still holding on to past me?
[1:07:11] Eric Thorton: Right. And you probably done a lot of therapy around it and nothing got there. But once we removed the predatory energy, then all that therapy you'd already done clicks in. Because it's still there in your subconscious mind. And all that therapy did help also make it so you could look at that and not take three bowls. It wasn't just removing. It was the other therapy you've done as well. And so that's, again, why we call this work inclusive. Is because everything you've done prior to that moment, to work, to gain wisdom for the thing that is bothering you. That's all wisdom you got from all the other therapy. If it's just this roadblock and we remove the roadblock, and it flows.
So for someone with years in the situation similar that hadn't done any work at all, they might have had to, we go in, we'd remove the predatory energy, they'd feel the difference. Then their eating habits would come back. And as they come in again and we take the next step and we start doing the therapy that you'd already done. We start walking through them. What is this? What is this aspect of your personality? What is this thing that's compelling you? I see you had stress here and you ate here? What did it do? Where do you feel that in your body? Get the person back in touch with their body and get in their body's wisdom. Whether maybe the therapy that you had done had gotten you to realize the body's wisdom. Got all that stuff in place. It just could take effect. So that -- sometimes we have to teach the body new wisdom because they haven't got the therapy somewhere else.
[1:09:05] Ashley James: How many of your clients have done psilocybin or other forms of microdosing? Would you say it's like a really strong percentage of your clients?
[1:09:18] Eric Thorton: No. They're very small. The microdosing is a fairly new concept with it. I've worked with hundreds of clients who've done macrodosing.
[1:09:28] Ashley James: Does the microdosing help at all? Or like you said, it's because of the intention. Their intention was to have fun, party, get high. The intention doesn't - but the substance, the psilocybin was still there. So does that, on some level, help with neuroplasticity? Or it does only help when its microdosed or only helps when it's microdose and there's [inaudible 01:09:48]?
[1:09:48] Eric Thorton: You don't have the deep breakthroughs where you can actually change overnight major personality conflicts. And sometimes with microdose - and you can also pick up the predatory energy from people when you're in that type of state. I won't even meditate in groups. And that's conscious meditation. You're going there and you're just blowing your psyche open, your soul open.
[1:10:20] Ashley James: What about yoga? What about doing yoga and a class?
[1:10:23] Eric Thorton: Yoga is a different intention. But some yoga people do try to get meditation in with it. And you can all share energy really easy. You're comrades in arms. Any group does that. And I just mentioned comrades. The army does it. It's one big intention. To create strength with their intention.
[1:10:42] Ashley James: Churches.
[1:10:42] Eric Thorton: Churches do that.
[1:10:43] Ashley James: Yeah. The churches I've gone to, they do a lot of like silent meditation and prayer together.
[1:10:49] Eric Thorton: In Christianity, what is the cross? And it's literally, you know, I've got that thing hanging on the wall here which nobody can see. It's a vortex. The sign of the cross is a vortex. And the Catholic Church knows that. And they even create - at Easter time, they even put the symbol around the center of the cross. The square that's turned sideways with fabric making even a stronger vortex, which is that's a whole another subject. Sorry. We'll have to explore that someday.
[1:11:24] Ashley James: You can see the gears turning in my head like a million questions.
[1:11:28] Eric Thorton: Yeah. It's like, "Okay." But what you are doing is you are blowing open this consciousness and the subconsciousness with the psilocybin uncontrolled macrodosing. And putting the person very vulnerable to the other people around them. There are things - even in my past life when I did this, it was one-on-one. We didn't do it in groups. IT was one on one.
[1:11:54] Ashley James: Right. And just remembering the iowaska interview I just did, most of the time they're doing ayahuasca in groups. And they're all having really big experiences.
[1:12:07] Eric Thorton: They're having big experiences.
[1:12:07] Ashley James: The unconscious mind is blown wide open.
[1:12:09] Eric Thorton: It is. And it's - I don't want to rank on the industry as far as people do get benefits from it. But what is - I experienced that there's a lot more that we could get out - we could wring out of those experiences in the work we do here. And I see that people will take on very predatory energies. I had one young lady and she went with a friend to be safe and they were both raped when they were under the influence. And they don't remember it but they have PTSD from it. And it's like, what are you supposed to do with that? It's become an industry down there.
[1:13:05] Ashley James: Right. Teresa said that when you go to the airport in Peru or Brazil, other places, a restaurant in the Amazon that there are "shamans" standing there at the airport holding a sign. And people will fly down and then hire the shaman right there in the airport. And that she said that they'll put additional things - additional herbs -
[1:13:30] Eric Thorton: Lots of different herbs in it.
[1:13:31] Ashley James: - just to get the person high not to have the healing experience.
[1:13:35] Eric Thorton: Right. And if they want to take advantage of them and rape them, they can put a certain herb in there and they don't remember anything. And that's the risk. There is no regulation down there. It's my understanding the government has caused this. The governments have caused it indirectly because they're requiring these tribes to put in septic systems, put in water systems, and they all cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Instead of being nomadic, they have to not be nomadic in the Amazon forest. And they have to create sanitary conditions and they don't have cash. So they've had to do this to create a cash flow. And that was where it originally started. Where they started taking it away from the masters.
I'm not going to call them shaman. You can be a shaman. Not be a master. But the words are cheap. People can throw those words around anywhere. But not the authentic masters that were born with the gifts on that didn't have to learn anything from another shaman. That's someone born. They get it. Period. And there's very few of those around the world. And so there's two masters that did this but they had to come up with cash. So then they started teaching facilitators and calling them shaman.
[1:15:00] Ashley James: Do you think - and this is getting into a conspiracy theory. But do you think that the countries in the area did it on purpose to disempower the true healings because there's no government that actually wants their citizens to be awake and to be empowered. Those governments are afraid of their citizens so they want to keep them fighting among themselves.
[1:15:29] Eric Thorton: Subdued. Right. And subdued somehow. Distracted.
[1:15:29] Ashley James: Did they do that on purpose to stop people from becoming empowered? Or was it just coincidental that that was the result?
[1:15:40] Eric Thorton: Well, I look at a lot of things with conspiracy theory. And look at it and go, "Well -" it was Dr. Lim that I was talking to. And he said, "Well, it's like with the American Medical Association. There's no one person doing anything that isn't good intention. But their perspectives, their ideas with as good intention to help their clients gets them looked at. And then someone else modifies it again with good intention. And then someone else modifies that with good intention. And then someone else modifies that with good intention. And pretty soon you get a thing that comes up as evil.
[1:16:29] Ashley James: Well, I would say like -
[1:16:30] Eric Thorton: Where it isn't one person that's doing it.
[1:16:32] Ashley James: Well, but there's an organization, let's say the pharmaceutical industry has an intention. And they say "Okay. Lobbyists go. Lobby for this."
[1:16:41] Eric Thorton: But that's a corporate intention.
[1:16:42] Ashley James: Right. But they affect the AMA all the time.
[1:16:45] Eric Thorton: They do. But the AMA still has to - they're doing it because they want to raise money. Because a corporation is for profit. So they're going there with the idea, "Okay. Let's do the opioid thing." Well, as far as the sales people are taught, "Well, this is good for everybody."
[1:17:07] Ashley James: Oh, so you're saying it's compartmentalized.
[1:17:09] Eric Thorton: It's compartmentalize. It's not one person which creates this whole thing - conspiracy - that is to be looked at as evil. This is what people look at the United States for. It's a corporate system. The corporates are for profit. Anything they can do to make money. There's no consciousness with that. Bu to sum total, we talked about corporate consciousness. There is in the end, a corporate consciousness. We call them thought forms.
When everybody as their thoughts to them, it creates something. It could be looked at as evil or can draw a predatory energy to that consciousness. And then it becomes a thing. And then it would be called an evil at that point. Because it drew predatory energy into controlling the populations. And it works out real well for the government. And the governments can start to create it. But the sales people, the people delivering it to the people, they don't have bad intentions.
[1:18:18] Ashley James: The individuals in the pharmaceutical industry are not bad people. Yeah, I've met the ex-sales people. They've got a spouse and family and kids and their moms and dads and they're not evil. But then they turned around one day and realized that what they were selling was harming people. And then they either chose -
[1:18:39] Eric Thorton: When they become aware of it, they change.
[1:18:42] Ashley James: And they either chose to stay or leave.
[1:18:44] Eric Thorton: Right. Right. If they stayed, then it would be conspiracy. But they chose to leave because they realized it wasn't. So that happens in this too. That's why I mentioned the government required these certain things for their benefit. They needed sanitation. They needed water. Well, that wasn't a bad person coming up with that. Because they couldn't be nomadic anymore because they were using the rainforest for palm oil. Sorry. And so it's not one person but it works for the government in the end.
[1:19:23] Ashley James: Right. Well, I mean if they had designed it in a way that what is more affordable than - right. So just looking at, because I think there's a correlation between what's happening in Central and South America with iowaska and what's going to happen in the United States with microdosing psilocybin mushrooms. And I see this correlation. Because, you know, history will repeat itself.
[1:19:46] Eric Thorton: Oh, definitely.
[1:19:47] Ashley James: Governments like to duplicate what happens? And so we're looking at -
[1:19:49] Eric Thorton: Correct. So does the medical industry.
[1:19:53] Ashley James: So countries look at each other and go, what worked? What didn't work? Let's repeat that. We want to have legal access to microdosing psilocybin mushroom like many people now have access to clean CBD or THC should they want that. And so what we want -
[1:20:20] Eric Thorton: You can go with THC. You can go to a facility that's monitored. And you know, it's not going to be laced with something else. So it's much safer and better for sleep or anxiety and the other. But it's not mixed with something else to get you hooked on it. And so it's just the product. So in that case, it's a good thing.
[1:20:42] Ashley James: Now, does pot - does marijuana have microdosing? Could it have the same neuroplasticity effects? Or is it just two different of a plant?
[1:20:54] Eric Thorton: Well, it's different effects. So you're comparing apples and grapes.
[1:20:59] Ashley James: And motorcars.
[1:21:00] Eric Thorton: Yeah. They're just different. So there are benefits, obviously, to THC and CBD and the different types of CBDs and other things.
[1:21:13] Ashley James: Cannabinoids.
[01:21:14] Eric Thorton: Cannabinoids and the -- I forgot -
[1:21:16] Ashley James: Terpenes.
[1:21:20] Eric Thorton: Terpenes. Terpenes. Yeah. And they're just discovering it in our country. They discovered it in other countries. But we have to rediscover everything in our country. But by allowing that in, then we start getting the benefits of it. And, of course, the corporations don't like that. So they want to take the active ingredients and either duplicate them or refine them and then patent that. Well, that's a corporation. That's not an evil. That's a corporation that -
[1:21:54] Ashley James: Wants to make money.
[1:21:54] Eric Thorton: -- that is designed to make profit and give money to their people who buy their stock. That's not evil. But you get 50 corporations building on it. And pretty soon you've got something that's not THC anymore or not cannabinoids anymore. And you're creating something else.
[1:22:12] Ashley James: And then they lobby for certain laws. And then you know, if they're - that's the problem, we need corporations that want win-win situations and good for all. But we've talked about that before. I'd like to know, maybe you could ask the guides, are there other substances or other techniques that people could use to increase neuroplasticity likes psilocybin?
[1:22:39] Eric Thorton: Well, I mean, we've already talked about the LSD. We talked about iowaska.
[1:22:44] Ashley James: Right. But I mean, like a household - you know, some things that are legal or techniques.
[1:22:52] Eric Thorton: The guides are good. And I understand this. They're going careful because there are. But psilocybin is a poison. And in too much, it causes the wrong type. And the same with iowaska and things like that. They are little poisons. And if you get the wrong ones, even the wrong mushrooms with psilocybin, will kill you.
[1:23:18] Ashley James: Are there - so I'll reach out. I'll change my question. Are their natural and not poisonous supplements out there that can have the same or similar effects as psilocybin?
[1:23:35] Eric Thorton: Cheese.
[1:23:36] Ashley James: Cheese?
[1:23:37] Eric Thorton: Yeah.
[1:23:39] Ashley James: That's funny.
[1:23:41] Eric Thorton: Yeah. Cheese, fat. We get addicted to fat and it gives us an experience that's not us. It calms us. It makes us feel like we're coming out of euphoria. It changes who you are. It changes your body. And it's an addiction. Now, I don't know if you can microdose cheese and get a benefit from it. But we get addicted to foods the same way. Meat causes the same addiction. So does sugar. And these are stronger reactions. What it does is, it causes your body, the bacteria in your intestine to send a signal to your brain to tell you to get more of that. And it slowly changes your neuroplasticity of your brain. It's a slower product. But it is doing it. And so if you took that - the guys are agreeing with that - and you could slowly - if you gave a person piece of cheese and give them at that right moment, you could technically implant a new idea.
[1:25:01] Ashley James: That's funny.
[1:25:02] Eric Thorton: That's funny. And it is. And I've never been asked that question before. Never. And they're just showing me what food does. They literally show me, everyday stuff that you eat and how it creates these and creates the direction your neuroplasticity is going. Once you get addicted to cheese, cow's milk, the fats, it has changed your whole life. And not necessarily in a good direction.
[1:25:36] Ashley James: I did an episode on cheese. I really recommend listeners to learntruehealth.com and search. In the search bar, search cheese. Listen to that episode. It is so good. And it's a short one. But it's very impactful. Lots of great information. When I say short, I mean like 45 minutes is short to me. But it's a really good episode because - I want to say it was Dr. Bernard.
[1:26:04] Eric Thorton: So you actually interviewed somebody about -
[1:26:05] Ashley James: About cheese. It was Dr. Bernard. A really great guy in the whole food plant based world. He looks like 40. If you look at his pictures, you're like that is a handsome doctor. He's, like, in his 70s and he looks 40.
[1:26:18] Eric Thorton: That's phenomenal.
[1:26:17] Ashley James: Yeah. And he's whole food plant based, you know, vegan. And he wrote a whole book on cheese. And it's great because when - I mean, I know I'm lactose intolerant. I'm totally allergic to milk and I know I shouldn't eat it. But back when I did eat cheese, Duffy and I would sit and we go to Costco and get a brick of Tillamook and we just sit there and watch TV on like a Sunday afternoon and -
[1:26:44] Eric Thorton: Get high on cheese.
[1:26:46] Ashley James: We would literally get high on cheese. The two of us, we polish off a brick of Tillamook in a weekend. And we'd sit there and we slice off little thin slices at a time. Just like micro dosing one bite at a time. A whole brick of cheese, oh, man. That Tillamook. But it does. It totally affects the brains. So the whole interview was about how cheese - because concentrated addiction. It's those chemicals that affect the brain.
So Dr. Joel Fuhrman said something really funny. Because I've been studying diets. And I think many listeners would agree with me that when you start feeling really good on a diet, you think it's the right diet for you. We're basing it on our symptoms. So if we start feeling good like, "Oh, wow. I feel really good after that meal. This must be the right way to eat." So people don't go ketogenic. Man, after that the three eggs and bacon, I feel so - or whatever -
[1:27:49] Eric Thorton: Right. The fat.
[1:27:50] Ashley James: After that butter on my steak or after that Tillamook cheese, I feel so good. Or after that keto shake, I feel - people will say, I feel really good on fat or on cheese. And Dr. Joel Fuhrman, who I've also interviewed, said -
[1:28:06] Eric Thorton: That's why the keto diet is so popular.
[1:28:08] Ashley James: Right. Because the people feel really - people feel really good. But he says, "Listen. If you judge a diet based on how you feel, cocaine will make you feel amazing. It doesn't mean it's good for you." And I was like, "Oh my gosh." My entire world exploded - imploded at that point. Because I thought, I've been judging diets based on how I feel. And it's actually based on - it had to be based on, obviously, the science and what's going on in the brain and what's going on hormonally, and what's going on in the gut. And we have to look at that.
[1:28:48] Eric Thorton: If you did mushrooms everyday, psilocybin, it would do the same thing that cheese does. Because you lose the ability for the hallucinations with psilocybin. And all you get is a little bit of euphoric feeling from it, which is what cheese does. And at that moment, when you guys were doing those bricks of Tillamook, if you were listening to commercial, they're brainwashing you.
[1:29:15] Ashley James: Very interesting. So when we eat foods like cheese or highly processed hyper -
[1:29:21] Eric Thorton: Anything that's in the book, the Pleasure Trap.
[1:29:24] Ashley James: The Pleasure Trap is a great book. And I recommend getting the audio version of the Pleasure Trap because Chef AJ is the narrator. And I love her. She's great. I also interviewed her. That's a good episode as well. Because she shares how she healed her colon cancer with the whole food plant based diet. But also that she healed her food addiction with it as well. So that's a really good interview. Very interesting. I love how this conversation led to this because we are dosing ourselves daily with foods that are causing our brains to be more susceptible to receiving subconscious messages from marketing.
[1:30:13] Eric Thorton: What is yesterday? What was yesterday? That's a cheeseburger day?
[1:30:18] Ashley James: No.
[1:30:18] Eric Thorton: Yes. And what do they show? The thing you're addicted to in a cheeseburger the most is the cheese. Second is the meat. So they're showing the cheese dripping all over, blah, blah, blah. And it goes back to the feeling that you and Duffy had when you were eating the Tillamook. Just the implant from looking at that, associate it with that, and it goes into, and then you are brainwashed to go get a hamburger, and to have the meat, and to have the blah, blah, blah.
[1:30:51] Ashley James: So I just watched - my husband and I just went to a documentary. They had this one global event where they released this documentary called The Game Changers.
[1:31:01] Eric Thorton: I saw that.
[1:31:01] Ashley James: Did you go see it?
[1:31:02] Eric Thorton: Thursday.
[1:31:03] Ashley James: No. Monday.
[1:31:04] Eric Thorton: No. Monday. Were you there?
[1:31:05] Ashley James: Did you see it? We went to Northgate.
[1:31:07] Eric Thorton: We were at Redmond. Yeah. Phenomenal.
[1:31:08] Ashley James: Yeah. Wasn't it amazing? It was so good.
[1:31:12] Eric Thorton: I mean, I like it better than Forks Over Knives.
[1:31:13] Ashley James: It was the best.
[1:31:13] Eric Thorton: Because it's not convicting or micromanaging. It was just presenting.
[1:31:19] Ashley James: It was just presenting great information.
[1:31:20] Eric Thorton: Great information.
[1:31:21] Ashley James: My husband I want to - I'm talking about him like a third person like he's not sitting right beside me. Because he doesn't have a microphone on. But we want to get it and get our family to watch it. I mean, it was great. We went with Naomi. Hi, Naomi. She's one of the listeners. And it was outstanding. What I loved the most was seeing that this woman was a cyclist and she went on the whole food plant based diet. And she was getting better.
[1:31:53] Eric Thorton: Olympic cyclist.
[1:31:53] Ashley James: She's an Olympic cyclist. But she was getting better and better times. And so they couldn't kick her off the team even though she was the oldest person who had ever been on the Olympic cycling team, I think ever.
[1:32:05] Eric Thorton: Right. Ever.
[1:32:06] Ashley James: She goes, "Just my times kept getting better and better so they couldn't kick me off. They had to invite me to the Olympics." And she was 39-and-a-half. The oldest of anyone in her class who had ever cycled in the Olympics. And she won - she brought home the gold at 39-and-a half. There was a heavyweight or weightlifter dude and he was 40, and he brought home the gold, I think. And she talked about that when you drink beet juice before you workout, it increases your endurance something like 33%.
[1:32:43] Eric Thorton: It's a high dose. It's a high thing. Beet juice creates the environment for the most nitrous oxide. And causing the endothelium to shrink more blood flow to your legs, to your muscles, more lubrication to your myofascial so you can run faster and jump higher for longer periods of time. Your oxygen is better because you're getting more blood physically to the muscles you're using. It's phenomenal. And they show that. They show the scientific, the animation of it in that movie. And I've recommended to one person already. But the beet juice is the highest concentrate of what you need to do that. But close behind it are all the greens. And there's so many fruits, vegetables of all sorts. And that's why athletes are changing over. How about the thing about what does gladiator me?
[1:33:44] Ashley James: Oh, that was hilarious.
[1:33:43] Eric Thorton: Barley and mushroom eaters.
[1:33:45] Ashley James: Yeah, yeah.
[1:33:46] Eric Thorton: Or barley something eater.
[1:33:47] Ashley James: It meant barley and green eaters - or no. Sorry. It was bean and green -
[1:33:54] Eric Thorton: Bean and barley. Bean and barley eaters.
[1:33:55] Ashley James: Bean and barley eaters. That was it. The word gladiator translated into - because the gladiators themselves who we think are -
[1:34:05] Eric Thorton: Meat eaters.
[1:34:05] Ashley James: We think they're meat eaters because they're these elite athletes from thousands of years ago were actually - were predominantly vegetarian.
[1:34:14] Eric Thorton: They could tell by the concentration of their bones.
[1:34:17] Ashley James: Yeah. So I found that the whole movie was fascinating. But how it relates to this discussion is, the neuroplasticity of the brain and our ability to heal. What I've seen over and over again is when people clean up their diet, and you can confirm -
[1:34:39] Eric Thorton: I totally confirm it.
[1:34:40] Ashley James: That when we clean up our diet, we remove the hyper palatable foods that are hijacking the brain and the gut. And the gut affects our brain because the gut produces our serotonin, our neurotransmitters. It also - and I just recently learned this because I'm taking a course through FDN. It's an advanced course through Functional Diagnostic Nutrition for health coaches. And I learned that 25% of the body's T3 is converted in the gut. So when we have this biosis, then you go to an MD and you say, "I'm really tired." Well, you're eating the standard American diet or the standard Canadian or standard Australian diet, whatever. You're eating the standard marketed to us diet. Processed food -
[1:35:20] Eric Thorton: Corporate diets.
[1:35:22] Ashley James: Corporate diet. We're eating the corporate diet, hyperpalatable foods of salt, sugar, and oil, and animal products, and flour. And we go to our MD because we're tired. The MD says, "Oh, well, you know, you're 40 and you're tired. And you have a few pounds on. So it's probably your thyroid that says you're tired." And then he sees your T3 is low and then he puts you on a synthetic T3. Meanwhile, your thyroid is fine. But it was your - I mean, it could just be, for example, your gut or your liver. Your liver plays a huge role in your in your thyroid hormones. But they don't even look.
[1:35:57] Eric Thorton: They don't. They don't because they don't want to undo their treatment system. The medical service system is where they make their money. I have to convince - one of the things that we do here is we look at the individual and what they specifically need. It all comes down to we all need to be whole food plant based. We're talking about that. But some people can get away with some meat. But there's nobody can get away with fat.
[1:36:26] Ashley James: The standard corporate diet.
[1:36:30] Eric Thorton: The standard corporate diet, nobody can. And they go, "Well, I'm not dying." It's hard to convince people that their thyroid will correct. Everything will correct if they give it the right fuel. And it's the same, we're talking about psilocybin therapy. It's the same with your brain. You give it the right fuel and it's going to change. It's going to change the neuroplasticity. That's why cheese affects that. That's why food affects similarly to hallucinogens. When you asked that question the guy just came and just downloading. He looks like, "Oh my gosh.
[1:37:06] Ashley James: Right. It's fascinating. That the brain - we can go out and we can get high off of legal food. But you're saying that the drawback -
[1:37:16] Eric Thorton: You don't get any higher doing microdosing of psilocybin than you do with eating Tillamook cheese. Literally, you don't get any higher. I mean, Tillamook cheese actually gives you this euphoric feeling that's amazing. Tillamook or any cheese. I'm not picking on Tillamook. Sorry.
[1:37:35] Ashley James: Oh, no. It's delicious.
[1:37:37] Eric Thorton: It's a delicious cheese.
[1:37:37] Ashley James: If you're going to do cheese -
[1:37:40] Eric Thorton: You do Tillamook.
[1:37:43] Ashley James: And we should start thinking about flour, sugar, oil, and animal products like street drugs. Are you doing eggs? Are you doing eggs and cheese? I mean, it's like, are you doing meth? Right?
[1:37:59] Eric Thorton: That's what I do. That's what I do with my kids. So you're still doing me. Okay.
[1:38:04] Ashley James: And not a point of judgment but a point of awakening and recognition that these foods affect the brain. And we can affect that brain -
[01:38:16] Eric Thorton: And that's proven.
[1:38:16] Ashley James: - in a positive way or a negative way. It's proven. But I've seen it so many times with my clients that when they clean up their diet, they're able to do emotional healing work so much easier. Because the inflammation is gone. The brain isn't hyper-excited from these foods. The brain isn't hijacked from these foods.
[1:38:39] Eric Thorton: Correct. Right. So I've noticed that with my clients that have taken the plunge and switched over to whole food plant based over the long term. We can get into very different spots. And one, the body is healing itself. And so we start taking the things that are preventing the body from healing itself. And we take away - and then they take away the food items that are preventing the body from healing itself or agitating the immune system. And all of a sudden their brain has time for other things. And their body has time for other things. And it's the priority. You're dying by eating the standard American diet, the standard corporate diets. And so your body has to put everything there, your consciousness there, your subconsciousness there to just stay alive. It's amazing what the body will do too. Because it will keep you alive going even though you're sickly for years and years and years and years. But your experience in life isn't good. You're just experiencing one negative situation to another with your health and your mental capacity. All of a sudden you clean up and the brain has time for spiritual growth.
And you were talking about conspiracy theory. And what the governments do and they want us unaware. When you're sick or sickly, you are obsessed with that. You aren't growing spiritually. So you take it and you become dogmatic. "Okay. I'm exhausted. How do I get to heaven? Okay. Do it this way." And there you go. Or you say, because you're tired, you're exhausted, you don't have anytime left to grow that way.
[1:40:19] Ashley James: And that and the food is what's making us exhausted, the corporate foods.
[1:40:22] Eric Thorton: Right. And if you look at the corporate food structure, there is intent with it because the corporation's want to sell you their products. But there's also that enough intent to create the thought forms, which bring predatory energy to it. And then we pick it up. And then we're being compelled. And the corporations love that part of it. Because they're selling more products. And all they care about selling more products. And they don't look at - again, corporations don't have morals.
[1:40:56] Ashley James: I think we should ask ourselves - and this is the homework I want to give listeners. Ask yourself for the next week every day at every meal, "Am I compelled to buy this food and eat this? Or can I say no to it? Could I choose a giant bowl of steamed vegetables and just eat that?" And then if you're still hungry, eat something else. But if there's something in you that's compelled to drive to the drive through or compelled to go to the restaurant or compelled to buy the packaged food.
[1:41:26] Eric Thorton: Or compelled to not eat those vegetables. And not eat the fruit, not eat the potatoes that don't have everything all over them.
[1:41:34] Ashley James: Just the baked potatoes.
[1:41:36] Eric Thorton: The baked potatoes.
[ 1:41:38] Ashley James: Or the brown rice or whatever. But if there's something in you -
[1:41:41] Eric Thorton: That's going yuck to something is healthy.
[1:41:41] Ashley James: - that's resisting something healthy or that's compelling you to eat something unhealthy.
[1:41:48] Eric Thorton: There's something beyond you.
[1:41:51] Ashley James: It's not you.
[1:41:52] Eric Thorton: Yeah. Your body wants what's healthy. I'll give an example with my wife and I. Sometimes we want to go out. That's a problem, right? We found the Mongolian grill, the ones that you're talking about. The normal one doesn't do it.
[1:42:06] Ashley James: It's called Iron Grill. We call it an Iron Gut. They only have two locations here, one in Mill Creek one and one -
[1:42:11] Eric Thorton: Right. It's a privately owned one.
[1:42:13] Ashley James: One in Monroe. But all the other Mongolian girls are just oil and all this gross stuff.
[1:42:17] Eric Thorton: Oil over the place. They don't even use oil at these two.
[1:42:17] Ashley James: They don't even use oil. I love it.
[1:42:19] Eric Thorton: No oil at all. They don't put it on their grill at all. So we want to go out. So we go to PCC, which is a local coop. And we'll get salad again. And we sit down and we put our dressing up that we bring and we're sitting there going, "Okay. A salad." Take one bite and the body lights up. And you just want to eat that damn salad.
[1:42:46] Ashley James: Yeah. But the brain is going -
[1:42:48] Eric Thorton: The corporate training -
[1:42:48] Ashley James: The corporate training is like, "No. Not salad again."
[1:42:51] Eric Thorton: I don't want salad.
[1:42:53] Ashley James: I don't like vegetables. This isn't fun.
[1:42:54] Eric Thorton: That didn't work for a caveman that needed to eat the vegetables all the time because there was often no meat. And they had to eat it. And they weren't picky.
[1:43:05] Ashley James: Right. Well, here.
[1:43:06] Eric Thorton: They just ate what was in front of them. But there wasn't the thought forms from the corporations. So they just ate it because it was there. You don't got a chimpanzee wanting the ripe banana. They want all the bananas. And because there's nothing compelling them to become picky and have just the right. So then they don't eat them. So it's a buildup of energy that has created - has brought in evil to it. And we call them corporate thought forms. And those influence in every way they can and they use food to enter your brain, the same way psilocybin does. And I just am fascinated by that. Give a whole new world of healing. The guide - your question did. Thank you.
[1:43:58] Ashley James: Well, you're welcome. But this is what I've been exploring on other episodes, it's been building up to this. This understanding of how important food is to our brain.
[1:44:07] Eric Thorton: It's huge. This, I know. It totally controls your brain, your mood, your hormones throughout your whole body. And you can look at that - I mean that has become a conspiracy. That no one person did it. It's a corporate lack of value system. I have thought in the past that because we're all governed by the corporate laws of the world. And I have thought in the past that the corporate laws need to have a standard of morals that is required for all corporate law. And one of the morals is do no harm. Doctors have it. Now, they've bent out a bit. But they still have it. Corporate law doesn't have that. And if corporate law, if it had just that one sentence added to corporate law, how much would be different?
[1:45:27] Ashley James: Huge. It would take a lot more precautions.
[1:45:31] Eric Thorton: Right. Do no harm. Instead of allowing - they have a law - you know, the laws in our country allow us not to sue the pharmaceuticals individually. So it's okay for them to do harm. Because that's the only way they can do "science." And that's not true. But they just took away the morals from pharmaceuticals.
[1:45:57] Ashley James: Right. This was a while ago, but I interviewed a woman who called herself a water [inaudible 01:46:04]. And she's quite interesting but what she did professionally before she got into nutrition was she was a scientist for - I think it was Pringles or Doritos or one of those -
[1:46:23] Eric Thorton: Isn't that sad. The scientists for a food company.
[1:46:26] Ashley James: Yeah. It was like a Nestle. It was one of those companies. And her and her team had to make some kind of Doritos be hyperpalatable. They had to always invent new - and I don't know if it was actually Doritos. But it was some kind -
[1:46:45] Eric Thorton: Well, Doritos is very much there.
[1:46:47] Ashley James: And they had to figure out what they could do to just make this addictive. And I asked her some questions about that. About what the intention was behind it. Because she left - eventually left that career. Did she feel there was like an evil intention or intention to harm people? And she says not at all. She said the scientists on the team were scientists. And they were just looking at what could they do to make something really excite the brain. And it was cool. It was science. It was neuroscience. What could they do to put a chemical on the tongue and make the brain light up like cocaine? And that was fun for them. And they came up with all kinds of interesting chemicals and interesting fat and carbohydrate mixed with chemical ratios to make the brain light up ten times more than cocaine. So there wasn't a, "Hahaha. We're going to hurt people." It was more just like they were given a task, they're scientists. It was compartmentalize. And they had fun.
[1:47:52] Eric Thorton: [Inaudible 01:47:52] and compartmentalized.
[1:47:54] Ashley James: And they had fun doing it because that was their task as a scientist. And then of course, she saw the big picture and saw how much the food industry was harming people. And so her idea was to then focus on how to make foods delicious in a wholesome way.
But that that was her background. So I just thought that was really interesting that her experience wasn't that she didn't feel like the corporation was looking to harm people. It just wants to make money. But the problem is that they don't have the values or the morals behind it to not want to do harm.
[1:48:34] Eric Thorton: Well, if the confirmation bias - they call that - it's there just to look at the benefits of this. If they also were compelled to do no harm, they would have to look at the whole picture. And then they would discover what she discovered, and she could no longer be there. But instead, their confirmation bias, they're looking for this. This boxed in thing and it's framed in, this is all you're looking for so don't look for anything beyond that frame. Well, if the government said, "Okay. You have to look beyond that frame."
[1:49:06] Ashley James: Here are your constraints as a business.
[1:49:09] Eric Thorton: Here it is. You have to do no harm to the human body. No harm. And that includes anyone who does research on it can say, "Okay. That disodium phosphate that they discovered and Lay's discovered. Instead of monosodium glutamate, they put disodium phosphate in. And [inaudible 01:49:29] the chemical that does that." Well, what does it do to your gut? What does it do to - and there's other chemicals too. But what does it do to your brain? What does it - why is it doing that?
[1:49:38] Ashley James: So what does disodium phosphate do to the body?
[1:49:40] Eric Thorton: It's an addiction. And so they've eliminated monosodium glutamate because it got a bad name.
[1:49:47] Ashley James: Right. MSG is bad. But they just replaced it with something else.
[1:49:49] Eric Thorton: They replaced it with something else to drive you. And that hasn't been investigated yet. Only the benefits of it have been investigated.
[1:49:59] Ashley James: It's so funny because when I make home baked fries - so I don't fry it with oil. I cut up a potato. I bake in the oven. I can put a little nutritional yeast or Bragg's or something on it, you know, make it taste salty. And it's a potato fry or air fry or that kind of thing. You eat one serving, you're full, you're done. But if you were to eat potato chips -
[1:50:28] Eric Thorton: You eat three times as much or five times as much.
[1:50:29] Ashley James: - you can't stop because of the chemicals they put on it.
[1:50:33] Eric Thorton: And the combination of the chemicals. Exactly.
[1:50:36] Ashley James: And that's hijacking the brain.
[1:50:38] Eric Thorton: It's hijacking the brain.
[1:50:40] Ashley James: And bypassing the internal thermostat that says their full.
[1:50:43] Eric Thorton: Therefore they're doing harm. So they couldn't do that if that little law was there.
[1:50:50] Ashley James: Right. So we have to take it upon ourselves that law. We have to really recognize that corporations do not have that law. As individuals we do. Like, you can't go and do harm to your neighbor. You're in a world of hurt if you do. But a corporation can do harm to millions of people and get away with it. So we, as individuals, have to be informed consumers. Everything we put in our mouth, we have to be diligent just like you would with a supplement or the pharmaceutical. We have to choose to look at the side effects. Look at the studies. Look at where it came from. That's why a whole food plant based diet is so easy because it's like, "Here's broccoli."
[1:51:29] Eric Thorton: Yep. There it is.
[1:51:31] Ashley James: Three it is. It's safe.
[1:51:32] Eric Thorton: And if you can get an organic, better.
[1:51:34] Ashley James: Even better.
[1:51:35] Eric Thorton: Even better. And broccoli, some people it's not their favorite thing. But there's ways of dealing with that broccoli that can make it absolutely be whole food plant based and be delicious. I just discovered something last night. I'm going to mention it on your blog here so other people can do it. I was cooking them. I cooked greens. They were Swiss chard. And I put in a pressure cooker for four minutes with some water and some garlic and some smoke. And the Swiss chard -
[1:52:10] Ashley James: When you say smoke -
[1:52:11] Eric Thorton: Liquid smoke.
[1:52:12] Ashley James: Liquid smoke, okay. Tiny bit because that stuff is strong.
[1:52:13] Eric Thorton: A tiny bit. It's very strong. And so I just did that recipe up and I got done. It was a little bit bitter and I like bitter. But I thought, "You know, there's combinations that can do - that the human body likes. And we like sweet-sour, sweet- bitter, sweet- smoky. We like sweet with different combinations" And I thought, "Hm. A little bit of apple juice on this would be amazing." And oh my god -
[1:52:42] Ashley James: It was really good?
[1:52:43] Eric Thorton: It was amazing.
[1:52:44] Ashley James: Swiss chard is a little, too, like stringent for me. But if I did that recipe, I think I'd like it.
[1:52:50] Eric Thorton: I just put it on [inaudible 01:52:51] like you would vinegar on it or something. Abd [inaudible 01:52:55] apples. Well, let's put apple juice on it. It was like, "Oh."
And it's made it worth eating. I mean, it was delicious.
[1:53:06] Ashley James: That's awesome.
[1:53:08] Eric Thorton: I thought, "Oh. I must tell people that." So I'm going to sneak it in on my kids and see how they deal with it.
[1:53:18] Ashley James: Nice. I love taking - I mean when I'm really busy, I add - lots of grocery stores do this now. You can get organic pre-shredded vegetables and they have pre-shredded broccoli. So it's just totally shredded broccoli in a bag. And then I love mixing that with avocado.
[1:53:38] Eric Thorton: Oh, I have never done that.
[1:53:38] Ashley James: And then I just mix with my hands. I mix it all together. So there's no dressing needed. Just half an avocado or something and a bag of this stuff and mix it together. And then I'll throw in whatever greens I want. Because the salad or like a handful of sauerkraut - organic sauerkraut that I get from Costco. And it is an explosion of flavor. It's so good it takes you forever to eat because it's so much fiber. But it's so good.
[1:54:05] Eric Thorton: It fills you up though.
[1:54:07] Ashley James: It fills you up. All it will do is fill you up.
[1:54:07] Eric Thorton: Right. With no calorie or very low calories.
[1:54:09] Ashley James: Very low calories. It's healthy fats. And I love getting broccoli because it's so good for the body.
[1:54:16] Eric Thorton: Well, that makes no profit for a corporation. One of the combinations,people will use any excuse for bad behavior. So when I was walking out of that movie, The Game Changers, and this lady goes, "Oh my God. If everybody does this, there'll be unemployment everywhere." And I just went, "Well, if you're going to base your eating off of global employment, well, then fine. But guess what? If everything would shift -
[1:54:49] Ashley James: Right. Well, they said that if - I can't remember whether it was if America - United States went completely whole food plant based, really vegan, or if it was the whole world. I think it was just America.
[1:55:02] Eric Thorton: Just America.
[1:55:02] Ashley James: If America stops eating meat today, then we would clear up the entire - the size of the continent of Africa in terms of the farming that is required to maintain these animals. So it was something like one third of the world, basically, would be free to be forests.
[1:55:24] Eric Thorton: To grow vegetables and forests.
[1:55:26] Ashley James: Grow vegetables. But that only -
[1:55:28] Eric Thorton: Repairs it.
[1:55:28] Ashley James: That's only 20% of our farmland in the world is used to make non-meat.
[1:55:35] Eric Thorton: I think it's less. It think it's 15%.
[1:55:37] Ashley James: It was crazy. It was just crazy. So the numbers - basically, if we didn't grow meat, then the employment would be to grow vegetables, have local farms. I think there's a lot of benefits too. But that's fine if her first thought was all the unemployment. All those poor people that work in the meat factories, that's just the available job. They don't actually like working there.
[1:55:59] Eric Thorton: No. So anyway, it's a tough - these things that open up our brain for change are not only in our regular diet, but you can also do it, like we say, with microdosing. And we have to be very cautious when you open up our brain in our daily life to any thing. Like, I guess, I won't meditate in groups because we're opening yourself up. Well, that's the same with food -
[1:56:37] Ashley James: Opening ourselves up every day.
[1:56:38] Eric Thorton: Opening ourselves up every day.
[1:56:38] Ashley James: People that go hang out McDonald's together and eat a Big Mac, they're opening themselves up.
[1:56:42] Eric Thorton: So the same thing that cocaine does and things like that. And again, I remember the name of the book, The Pleasure Trap. And it's like, "Read it." You'll understand the chemical reaction going on. And it's very similar to psilocybin. And it's food. Every time you get mushrooms, you got psilocybin. And we all love mushrooms. And it's because it gives you that same non-high level, it gives you the euphoria that cheese and other meats and things like that will give you.
[1:57:16] Ashley James: So we can find in a healthy form, like mushrooms -
[1:57:19] Eric Thorton: Cook them.
[1:57:20] Ashley James: Yeah. Cook mushrooms. But if we ate raw mushrooms, would we get - I mean raw Portobello, would we get neurological benefits?
[1:57:32] Eric Thorton: Well, it opens you up for suggestion. There's no neurological benefits to it.
[1:57:37] Ashley James: So eat a Portobello raw and then go to your therapist.
[1:57:41] Eric Thorton: Bring your Portobello to the therapists and eat it while you're - that is an interesting thing that would be worth investigating.
[1:57:51] Ashley James: Right. I'm going to eat a pound Crimini or Portobello mushrooms and then I'm going to come see you and see what happens.
[1:57:58] Eric Thorton: So that would be really interesting to investigate that, wouldn't it? But the guides just made that absolute correlation, you are opening up the power of - to opening up to suggestion. And that's what has to be so careful about psilocybin therapy.
[1:58:15] Ashley James: Well, no one wants to be duped. And we're being duped by marketing all the time. The thought forms, the corporate suggestions, we really need to sit back in quiet time. I think we need to reflect without a screen in front of us, without any media pouring into us. We need to sit quietly and journal and think about and contemplate this thought, "What are my beliefs and what are the beliefs that have been implanted in me from corporations -"
[1:58:51] Eric Thorton: Corporate interests.
[1:58:53] Ashley James: Corporate interests.
[1:58:54] Eric Thorton: Right. No morals. And if they do have morals, they've made them.
[1:59:00] Ashley James: And they're not our morals. But they've made them for the purpose of profit and power.
[1:59:07] Ashley James: Yeah. And we don't want to be duped anymore.
[1:59:10] Eric Thorton: We don't want to be duped. We're realizing that it does - how it does chemically, change the body to eat these foods of any sort. And the benefits and the control that can happen with that. And that's why I will work with people that do uncontrolled hallucinogenic stuff. Just like now, I got to look at it from food. That's going to be interesting healing sessions. But the uncontrolled and what's happened to them versus a controlled situation. And the benefits you can get from that.
[1:59:48] Ashley James: Controlled, meaning a microdose psilocybin mushrooms -
[1:59:52] Eric Thorton: With the proper therapy.
[1:59:53] Ashley James: - with the doctor, with therapy, with working with you.
[1:59:58] Eric Thorton: So that's where we need to go with this stuff. And that's where the benefit I've had with my clients.
[2:00:04] Ashley James: Well, it's just fascinating that people with schizophrenia are able to not have schizophrenic episodes. Is it lessened schizophrenic episodes or no schizophrenic episodes with psilocybin?
[2:00:16] Eric Thorton: From what I have read - because I've only had a couple patients that it has gotten rid of them.
[2:00:24] Ashley James: Gotten rid of the schizophrenic episodes.
[2:00:27] Eric Thorton: The schizophrenic episodes for a period of time. And it's gotten rid of the bipolar behavior for a period of time. Now, if you're just getting the microdose from the doctor but not doing any of the homework -
[2:00:43] Ashley James: On emotional work.
[2:00:43] Eric Thorton:- on the emotional work and things like that, what's firing up - because schizophrenia is fired off in the brain that can have schizophrenia. It's fired off by an emotional reaction. Well, if you can get to the emotional reactions, you're going to win the psilocybin therapy wears off a year later. You're going to have less things that trip you into the schizophrenic or bipolar episode. So you are healing it but you've got to do the work. Not just go down and get the thing once a year or once every six months, it varies from person to person. And just keep - you can, you can just keep doing that or you can do -
[2:01:20] Ashley James: But there's no growth in that.
[2:01:23] Eric Thorton: There's no growth. If you can find out what it's all about, why, what triggers it, then you are in control. Not the doctors. So that's where we go.
[2:01:34] Ashley James: Very cool. So for those who are interested in learning more about how they can work with you or discover a practitioner that will do psilocybin with them and microdoses in a safe environment and do the therapy, they can contact you, ericthorton.com. And that it's not legal in every state or country. So that's needs to be taken into account. But can get it.
[2:02:03] Eric Thorton: It's their decision.
[2:02:03] Ashley James: But there are people in different states that even though it's not legal can have access to it with certain doctors that are willing to go against the laws in order to help people. So this is sort of like - I feel like it's, like, ten years ago with marijuana. There's only a matter of time before it's going to be legal. And that people will be able to use it in microdoses for this this type of healing.
[2:02:32] Eric Thorton: For this type. You have to have the following.
[2:02:35] Ashley James: But what we can do now is look at our diet. Because it affects our brain. Every meal, every meal, every -
[2:02:42] Eric Thorton: Every meal, every snack. Everything you put in your body -
[2:02:44] Ashley James: Affects our brain.
[2:02:46] Eric Thorton: And it's different. One last thing here, it's different from one person to the next because of the way your body digests food. And how much damage there is to your digestive system. So you have several factors there. And that's why it's not just a one thing fits all.
[2:03:09] Ashley James: I'm reading a really interesting book right now. It's called The Metabolic Typing Diet. And I'm enjoying the story and the science. I don't necessarily agree with the diet because there's a lot of meat in it. But it's interesting what these doctors, these clinicians found is that we metabolize - people metabolize differently depending on their autonomic nervous system, depending on their oxidative stress, depending on their alkalinity. They found seven different key factors in the metabolism that determine how food affects us.
[2:03:46] Eric Thorton: Well, and then you have to add in which they're not obviously not looking at yet, the psychology of it. And what we're talking about, the addicting factors. So like I in the work here, we look at all of that for each individual. Different set of circumstances for everybody that comes in. Because I listen to their guidance. So we can take them through whatever they've chosen to do. If you look at it as an individual instead of a corporate formula, you're going to get far better care.
[2:04:22] Ashley James: Is there anything you'd like to say or share to wrap up today's interview? I think that the guides really want to make sure that we say to clearly package this interview.
[2:04:33] Eric Thorton: Well, let's look at how the things we put in our mouth affect our brain and our body and our digestion. And it affects every single person that is currently alive in the physical body.
[2:04:46] Ashley James: If you have a pulse.
[2:04:47] Eric Thorton: Yes. If you have a pulse, it affects you. Denial will get you nowhere. It keeps you right where you're at, which is fine if you're happy with it.
[2:04:55] Ashley James: I'll share this quick story. I just had a late night phone call with a friend. I called her as we were driving home, our son fell asleep in the car. We picked him up from grandma's after watching the movie The Game Changers, Monday night. Really good movie. It's coming out digitally soon so everyone could watch it. Everyone needs to watch it.
2:05:13 Eric Thorton: I hope so. Everyone needs to watch it.
[2:05:14] Ashley James: It was really well done. James Cameron, who's the guy that directed Avatar.
[2:05:19] Eric Thorton: And directing the new one currently.
[2:05:23] Ashley James: Right. Currently directing Avatar 2. He's the mastermind behind it. So it was really well done. Even people who are totally convinced they'll never give up meat, you should still watch it because it was very entertaining. But it was really funny too. But anyway, we're driving home and I immediately had to call a friend who's a - she lives in Texas. She lives in a hospital with her friend who is quadriplegic. And she's the caregiver for this quadriplegic who has had the same bedsore that Christopher Reeves died from. And the doctors and nurses are telling my friend you know - they keep reminding my friend, "Christopher Reeves, multimillionaire, died from this. Your friend isn't going to make it." April, the person who's experiencing the bedsore, she has been in three different facilities. And she'd be fine with me sharing this, I know that. I know her. And the first facility - so I sent them a blender and I said, "Put vegetables in the blender and feed April smoothies." Because she fell and broke her neck well down in Texas. And she can't really chew food. And so I sent them a blender and I said - because the hospital food is horrible, I said, "Just blend vegetables. Drink it." And so the first month, there was huge healing. And she just didn't allow April to have any of the hospital food. And they got the doctors on board. Just vegetables and smoothies and almond milk or whatever and drink it, and the healing was amazing. Of course, they're doing all their therapies on it.
And then they transferred April to a different hospital who, for one month, did not allow April to have any vegetables. They said no. They only gave her some kind of protein shake with fake nutrients in it. And she got worse. And then transferred to a different hospital, and now starting to get better again. And the whole time ,it's antibiotic after antibiotic. And all these - they're throwing everything they have allopathically. But the diet, she was doing really bad. Then got on the vegetables and the smoothie, started healing amazingly and responding to their therapies. Then was taken off that diet and started getting worse. Then was put back on the diet and started getting better.
2:08:04 Eric Thorton: Right. It's all because of antioxidants. We're the only mammal that doesn't produce antioxidants. We have to eat them. And they only come from fruits and vegetables. They reduce the oxidative stress. The body could heal even while sitting on the wound.
[2:08:20] Ashley James: Right. And it's just amazing that hospitals feed complete crap to people wanting them to get better.
[2:08:26] Eric Thorton: Right. It's just amazing that they do. There's nothing - there's no value to their food.
[2:08:33] Ashley James: So coming back to the original point, because people are interested in the emotional and mental healing that had taken place with microdosing psilocybin or at least curious to learn more about it, which they have today. But what's really interesting is that every single person has the power to shift how their brain heals or shift how their emotions heal through every meal.
[2:08:57] Eric Thorton: Every single one.
[2:08:58] Ashley James: Yeah. Very cool.
[2:08:59] Eric Thorton: It is. It's very cool. And I'm happy to be a part of whatever people want me to help them with.
[2:09:07] Ashley James: Yeah. I definitely recommend listeners work with you. I've had amazing experiences working with you as it has my husband, as it has my friends. It's a pleasure to be here again today, Eric.
[2:09:17] Eric Thorton: Always.
[2:09:18] Ashley James: Thank you so much for coming back on the show.
[2:09:20] Eric Thorton: Thank you for having me.
[2:09:21] Ashley James: Absolutely. And listeners can go to Learn True Health Facebook Group and type any questions you have for Eric because he's a regular on the show. And you guys can ask questions.
[2:09:30] Eric Thorton: I'd love to hear them. That's a great idea. I'd love to hear them. We could do a show just on questions people write in.
[2:09:36] Ashley James: Yeah. Awesome. All right. Terrific. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure being with you again.
[2:09:39] Eric Thorton: Thank you too, also. However you say that.
[2:09:46] Outro: Hello, true health seeker. Have you ever thought about becoming a health coach? Do you love learning about nutrition? And how we can shift our lifestyle and our diet so that we can gain optimal health and happiness and longevity. Do you love helping your friends and family to solve their health problems and to figure out what they can do to eat healthier? Are you interested in becoming someone who can grow their own business and support people in their success? Do you love helping people?
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